Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 2011

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 04 Jun 2011 19:17

For the jingoes, this is a very good weekend.

jash_p · Post by **jash_p** » 04 Jun 2011 19:20

I doubt kashmiri killed. I think Pakis must have hide him. Later on he will surfaced with new id like Kailash Jammuri.

rajithn · Post by **rajithn** » 04 Jun 2011 19:22

Why are we sure he is dead? He's been declared dead before and the Pakis can easily claim they were misinformed, should Kashmiri turn up alive again! For a Paki asset, wouldnt it be convenient for them to have the world think he is dead, while the AfPak end game gathers steam - and let him resurface at the right time?

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 04 Jun 2011 19:25

Muppalla wrote:A lot of folks here has lesser confidence on SDREs which is the unfortunate trait of SDREs. A substantial Afghan Intel is SDRE intel. Khan is also depenedent on SDRE intel.

Guys, I did not say, SDREs dont have any role. it is far fetched because of the location. If true it is a great thing as we have re-established our network in Pakeeland, across the far corners of Pakeeland well outside our areas of concern of Pakjab and Karachi.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 04 Jun 2011 19:30

rajithn wrote:Why are we sure he is dead? He's been declared dead before and the Pakis can easily claim they were misinformed, should Kashmiri turn up alive again! For a Paki asset, wouldnt it be convenient for them to have the world think he is dead, while the AfPak end game gathers steam - and let him resurface at the right time?

This resurfacing and all does not work in Jehadi circles, out of sight is out of mind... Even the wives are dead Jehadis would be made to remarry (sort of like war booty distribution), so coming back and becoming a leader cannot happen. Think about OBL, he was living like a retired school headmaster and got hunted like chicken.

Kapil · Post by **Kapil** » 04 Jun 2011 19:32

Remembering Bhausaheb Maruti Talekar, 17 MLI

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 04 Jun 2011 19:37

Kapil wrote:Remembering Bhausaheb Maruti Talekar, 17 MLI

Maybe Bausaheb's spirit will find some solace... for the unwashed Abduls wondering who is this..

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/24yro ... id/520047/

and this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyas_Kash ... ilitant%29

May IK's spirit rot in hell!!! no 72s for him...

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 04 Jun 2011 19:41

^^ This is one of the reasons because of which I am thankful to Americans for this operation.

Kapil · Post by **Kapil** » 04 Jun 2011 19:45

There was a report about Gov Maharashtra planning a memorial to him in his village.
Does anyone recall it?

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 04 Jun 2011 19:46

Actually, this is an instance where TSP's terror infrastructure and personnel are the same for fighting the west and India. It's coincidental that it has happened. What TSP is looking for is to transform it's terror operations to be India specific so the west has no problem with it, but unfortunately (for TSP) this is difficult and/or impossible.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 04 Jun 2011 19:48

Irish Times: Mary Fitzgerald on SSS' death. Nothing new here, except the personal dimension.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/wee ... 66162.html

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 04 Jun 2011 19:51

Farhat Taj on the proposed military operations in North Waziristan:
http://bit.ly/msPmRy

A military operation in such a context will be just like the previous operations in FATA — useless, devastating for civilians and the Taliban safely relocated elsewhere. In previous operations in FATA, no leading Taliban commanders were killed or their networks disrupted but thousands of innocent civilians and soldiers of the army and FC were killed, properties worth millions of dollars destroyed and hundreds of thousands of people displaced from the region. The generals seem to accept all this as ‘collateral damage’ in pursuit of state ‘interest’ that only they have a right to define, not the ‘bloody civilians’.
...
...
People in FATA wonder why the security forces of Pakistan cannot launch operations unannounced against the Taliban. Why is it so important to announce the operations before they are launched? The Pakistan Army launched sudden and unannounced assaults on Indian positions in Kargil. Even the Indians were taken aback. In the initial phase of the war, the Indians suffered great casualties. Why can similar unannounced and prompt assaults not be carried out against the Taliban in FATA by the security forces of Pakistan? It is thus no wonder that the tribesmen doubt the intentions of the authorities to combat the Taliban.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 04 Jun 2011 19:52

Newsweek, Pakistan edition
http://www.newsweekpakistan.com/the-take/329
Mehreen Zahra-Malik writes ("Sow Mumbai, Reap Karachi?")

In Pakistani officialdom, Headley’s name is mud. Nothing he says is worth commenting on, even if ISI chief Gen. Shuja Pasha is named in the case. In media circles, the slow and painful unraveling of Pakistan is being viewed inflexibly in the context of deflowered sovereignty and wounded pride. What we forget is that honor is not just about making free choices, but also about dealing with the consequences of those choices. And the banquet of consequences has finally come to town here in Pakistan. The militancy, manufactured and fed by the security establishment, is on the prowl. After having lunched across the border and in our lawless frontiers, it’s arrived in Pakistan’s cities ready for the main course.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 04 Jun 2011 19:55

Khaled Ahmed in TFT:
http://www.thefridaytimes.com/03062011/page5.shtml

...Pakistan, finding itself unable to fight Al Qaeda and its cohorts of Pashtun and Punjabi foot-soldiers, might finally decide to hand over to the ‘pure’ Muslims leading the war from North Waziristan on the condition that they stop killing the military personnel and the common people. ...

...For some hawks the Big Divorce is finally at hand. No less a person than ex-ISI boss General Hamid Gul smells the moment of success of his life-long ambition, and he knows that the current ISI boss, judging from his facial expressions, thinks no differently. Read his gloss on the Taliban attack on PNS Mehran, quoted by Jinnah (25 May 2011) the attack on PNS Mehran in Karachi was hundred percent an American Operation to strengthen its position in the region and get close to Pakistan’s nuclear assets. He said the Americans had done ghaddari (betrayal) in the past and were ready to do more of it in the future.
...
This is what our Dr AQ Khan offers:

Nuclear scientist and papa of Pakistan’s nuclear bomb told the banned Jaish-e-Muhammad publication Al Qalam (27 May 2011) that it would take just ten nuclear bombs – Pakistan has over a hundred – to destroy the whole of India. He said only those states that did not possess nuclear weapons faced aggression from outside.

If that is what is going to happen after the ‘divorce’, then the next target will be the real civilisational nexus with America that has so far prevented Pakistan from becoming Afghanistan: targeting the liberals who protest Blasphemy Law and other unfair legislations that foreshadow the purer khilafat of Al Qaeda that the nation was promised in 1947.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 04 Jun 2011 19:59

Pakistani Muslims demand a ban on the Bible

The Islamic party of Pakistan, Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam, has filed an appeal to the Supreme Court of Pakistan and launched a campaign asking to ban the circulation of the Bible, described as a "***** " and "blasphemous book". This is a new attack against the Christian community in Pakistan, frightened by the attacks and threats suffered after the death of Bin Laden, already under attack due to the damaging effects of the blasphemy law, with the consequence of death penalty to those who insult the Koran or the Prophet Muhammad. The radical group Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam, with its headquarters in Karachi, launched the campaign at a public conference.

According to the group's leader, Abdul Rauf Farooqi, some passages of the Bible describe characters that Muslims regard as prophets as being "vicious and immoral".
"It is a move that could fuel religious hatred against Christians. It is a threat to peaceful coexistence, an attack on the heart of our faith", says a bewildered Fr. Saleh Diego, who presides over the "Justice and Peace Commission" in the Archdiocese of Karachi. "As Christians we are already very weak and subject to pressures for the unjust blasphemy law. These radical groups want to delete us entirely. Sure, they are only minority groups, and we hope for the rise of voices of moderate Muslim leaders to stop this campaign of hatred " he remarks.

http://www.energypublisher.com/article.asp?id=54916

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 04 Jun 2011 20:03

Even though it is annoying to hear CNN et al being utterly idiotic in their "IK is military brain of AQ" theme and not telling that he is a alleged former paki SSG and his continued connections with the pak establishment...I guess we will have to take what we get.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Jun 2011 20:24

Hat tip Dilli Billi!!!

Extended Fridin dhamaka!

Onions are avenged. Kiyani strikes back.

The expected jihadi coup is being halted.

Mehran was a big red line.

Not the onions, but the maal being integrated.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 04 Jun 2011 20:27

Listening to our army is pissing off their army? Great.!!!!

http://www.dawn.com/2011/06/02/indian-a ... ution.html

Indian army hurdle in way of Siachen solution
By Madiha Sattar | From the Newspaper
June 2, 2011 (2 days ago)

“On Siachen, Joint Secretary (Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran) T. C. A. Raghavan” — who has also served as the Indian Deputy High Commissioner in Pakistan — “reported that the Indian army has drawn a line with its political leadership. It has told the government of India that withdrawal was tantamount to ceding the area to Pakistan due to the difficulty of retaking it should Pakistan occupy it,” wrote the New Delhi embassy in September 2008.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Jun 2011 20:32

Its not just the IA but the entire establishment. After PRC in POK there is no surety TSP wouldn't secede Siachen to PLA.

Also if that IFS guy did point to IA then he should be chided for one never ids the holdout.

Is IFS ready to secede Siachen to TSP and PLA?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 04 Jun 2011 20:37

ramana wrote:Its not just the IA but the entire establishment. After PRC in POK there is no surety TSP wouldn't secede Siachen to PLA.

Also if that IFS guy did point to IA then he should be chided for one never ids the holdout.

Is IFS ready to secede Siachen to TSP and PLA?

They are just running a psyops saar.

Pissed off that we are all on to their MMS papi jhappi connection which they are no longer able to exploit, a la sharm el sheik.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 04 Jun 2011 20:37

Kapil wrote:There was a report about Gov Maharashtra planning a memorial to him in his village.
Does anyone recall it?

Kapil ji I seriously doubt if govt would really make a memorial for him.Maybe the villagers would themselves have got together,donated some amount and erected a memorial for him.If the local MP/MLA is concerned enough he would have funded some part of it.Do not expect anything from the govt.

In fact this is what happens all over the country.It is generally the citizens who take initiative when it comes to honoring the martyrs.

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 04 Jun 2011 20:44

"Fox is talking about Ilyas lahori( he aint kashmiri) & how uncle wants him. They also mention how he was involve in mumbai attack. I said this before & going to say again...nextone to end up at bus stop or railway station is IK.."

^^^^ I said this on may 6th next to go hell is going to be lahori on previous TSP dhaga
Hell ya

saadhak · Post by **saadhak** » 04 Jun 2011 20:46

Vicky Nanjappa on Kashmiri
From rediff

The IB says that while the death of bin Laden was a huge loss for the Al Qaeda, the killing of Kashmiri will hurt even more. Bin Laden was not that active as far as operations of the outfit were concerned and was more of a motivator.
But that was not the case with Kashmiri as militants relied heavily upon him for training.

On Sirajuddin Haqqani;

In addition to this, India also believes that Sirajuddin has been recruiting troops and has turned his focus to Kashmir.

From his blog

While Kashmiri remained a threat to the entire world and the United States in particular, India is thrilled with the information of his death.
Kashmiri’s obsession to undertake attacks on Indian soil is nothing new. His latest plan was to carry out an operation known as “Ghazb-e-Hind in which he wanted to ensure the destruction of India.
...
However Kashmiri’s primary agenda had always been Kashmir and he had said on several ocassions that he wanted to complete the battle in the valley. Soon after the Soviet war, he spent a lot of time in Kashmir and introduced the militant group, the Harkat-ul-Jihad-al-Islami (HuJI) in India. However there was a falling out between him and the ISI when the latter insisted that he fight alongside Maulana Masood Azhar in Kashmir. Kashmiri refused to do so and fell out with the ISI. This prompted him to start his own outfit called as the 313 brigade which today is associated with the Al-Qaeda.
...
The 26/11 connection: The connection that Kashmiri had to this attack had slowly started to come out following an interview to Asia Times Online and now the death of Shehzad. Speaking about Kashmiri, the late Shehzad had told us that Kashmiri was in the know about the 26/11attacks. He also said that Kashmiri had said that the attack was originally conceived by a Pakistani security agency.
...
Shahzad had also pointes out that Kashmiri believes India will soon involve itself militarily in Afghanistan. And when that happens the Ghazb-e-Hind will be launched with a massive terror operation across India.
...
The India connection: The intelligence bureau in India says that his death has come exactly at a time when Pakistan’s ISI wanted it the most. He was beginning to become an embarrassment for the Pakistan establishment. There existence of Kashmiri only meant that the system would have been exposed. The recent attack at Karachi and also the 26/11 attack are two incidents that the ISI would rather let the world forget. The death of Shehzad and now Kashmiri are clear indications of the fact that the ISI wants to conceal a lot. For Shehzad, Kashmiri was a big source for his stories and during their interactions many aspects regarding the involvement of the ISI in various attacks had begun to come to light. The naval base attack at Karachi was something that Shehzad had been writing about and he had started to expose the infiltration of the Al-Qaeda into the Pakistani establishment. This was something that the ISI could not afford at this time since the ongoing trial at Chicago too has put the ISI in a very embrassing situation. One one hand Headley claims that it was the ISI which was behind this attack to some extent and on the other Rana too had said that he was an ISI agent and not a Lashkar-e-Tayiba operative. On the other hand there is a suit filed by the Israeli family against the ISI and the court had decided on issuing summons to the ISI leadership.
The IB says that with the death of Osama Bin Laden, there has been a change in the mindset of the terror outfits. They expected the ISI to protect him, but today feel let down. Moreover the ISI had also softened its stance against the US and was seen making their peace in order to avoid any sort of embarrassment in the US courts. This effectively meant that the terror groups were hell bent on battling the ISI. Kashmiri in particular has been very vocal about the ISI and the establishment did expect him to continue speaking out against the ISI. When this was the case, the ISI must have thought it is better to blow his cover and get the US to eliminate who anyways have him on their hit list.
Indian agencies also point out that in the past few months, Kashmiri had been showing keen interest in India. He not only wanted to battle Indian forces in Kashmir, but also wanted to carry out operations across the country. He had termed his operation as Ghazb-e-Hind. IB reports suggest that a large recruitment drive had already commenced and a major of cadres from Kerala had been roped in and were being trained under him. The IB says he sure was a big threat to India and his elimination has come as very good news.

Shubhkaamnayein to all Indians on the death of this rabid India-hater. May his tribe perish to their fate very soon.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 04 Jun 2011 20:50

Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyas_Kash ... ilitant%29

Kashmiri was reported killed along with Hanifullah Janikhel and Kaleemullah in Machikhel, North Waziristan on 7 September 2009 when they were hit by a missile fired from a U.S. drone.[29] At the time he was reportedly one of the top 10 most wanted militant commanders in Pakistan.[16] However, in mid-October Kashmiri was reported to have survived the airstrike and granted an interview with Asia Times Online's Syed Saleem Shahzad.[30] A senior American official was later quoted by The Washington Times as saying "While there were preliminary indications that Kashmiri may have been dead, there is now reason to believe that he could be alive".

{LA Times: http://articles.latimes.com/2009/sep/18 ... an-drone18 }

Now that SSS has been murdered, who will a resurfacing Kashmiri give an interview to?

negi · Post by **negi** » 04 Jun 2011 20:52

US fighting India's war is a jumbo load of BS; they could not extradite Headley to us WTF are they trying to kid by making such a claim , it's different matter that chankians might buy it. Kashmiri was asked for by Unkil and delivered on plate by the TSPA, had their been actionable intel about his whereabouts Unkil would not have even asked. Expect TSP to get a few toys thrown at from Unkil's old warehouse as a token of GUBO.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 04 Jun 2011 20:56

Bill Roggio in the Long War Journal
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/ ... ader_2.php

US intelligence officials contacted by The Long War Journal said that Kashmiri was indeed a target of the attack, but they could not confirm that he was killed.

"HUJI's statement is a sure sign we got him, we are pretty confident he is dead but we cannot confirm 100 percent," one official told The Long War Journal.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 04 Jun 2011 21:09

There will be retaliation for the killing of IK.The next big news out of Pakistan is gonna be REAL BIG!

Killing of IK is the first orgasm of US-TSP consensual rape. I expect some more! Keep going! Comon!

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 04 Jun 2011 21:09

negi wrote:US fighting India's war is a jumbo load of BS;

The following was the trigger post and see how the connection was made and then whole bunch of posters latching on that (flawed) linkage

Ambar wrote:Illyas Kashmiri had stepped out of unkil's 'Lakshman rekha' - i.e. he was fast embroiled in coordinating attacks on western targets (esp NATO soldiers and assets in afg) through LeT and AQ. Remember he was also rumored to be in the running as a replacement for OBL ? Not to mention, he was in the list of 'top 5' that Hillary handed over to Pakistan last week. The Americans have kept their words, they did say either Pakistan apprehends these guys and hands them over to US or US has sources to take them out on their own.

Whatever the US perfidy maybe when it comes to India, they were right when they said "In a way we are indirectly fighting India's war". We couldn't do jack about Kashmiri and his like, droneacharya on the other hand has been busy handing the faithfools their ticket to 72. Next stop - Haqqanis !

Hariprasad · Post by **Hariprasad** » 04 Jun 2011 21:16

Pakistan jacks up annual defence spending by 11.3pc

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 04 Jun 2011 21:18

Satya_anveshi wrote:
negi wrote:US fighting India's war is a jumbo load of BS;
The following was the trigger post and see how the connection was made and then whole bunch of posters latching on that (flawed) linkage

Ambar wrote:Illyas Kashmiri had stepped out of unkil's 'Lakshman rekha' - i.e. he was fast embroiled in coordinating attacks on western targets (esp NATO soldiers and assets in afg) through LeT and AQ. Remember he was also rumored to be in the running as a replacement for OBL ? Not to mention, he was in the list of 'top 5' that Hillary handed over to Pakistan last week. The Americans have kept their words, they did say either Pakistan apprehends these guys and hands them over to US or US has sources to take them out on their own.

Whatever the US perfidy maybe when it comes to India, they were right when they said "In a way we are indirectly fighting India's war". We couldn't do jack about Kashmiri and his like, droneacharya on the other hand has been busy handing the faithfools their ticket to 72. Next stop - Haqqanis !

I have believed that 9-11 occurred because jihadis could make no headway in India. They were right here - next door - but were being shaheedized as fast as they came in. But if you look at news reports of that era the western press were considering these terrorists deaths as deaths of Kashmiri freedom fighters. That was an era when these men, trained and armed by the Pakistani army were committing mayhem all over the world - culminating with 9-11.

India's steadfast resistance (which a lot of Indians criticise as cowardice, weakness, etc) actually pushed jihad to the west and brought the US into a war that Pakistan started as a war against India. But hey who cares whether anyone believe this or not. As long as the end result suits us I don;t care. but i did hope for something like this when I cheered the news of the Twin Tower going down. It was the Pearl Harbor of the 20th century. Until then Paki terrorism was "freedom fighters". The US has taken 10 years to start learning about history. If they are fighting India's war by an accident of history, so be it.

Patni · Post by **Patni** » 04 Jun 2011 21:30

Well Pakis being so big on H&D, I sure hope some ISI mullah in uniform cant suppress the itch and comes out claiming how it was paki army / isi intel that got Ilyas hellfired. How they have reclaimed their H&D that went up in bonfire with burning onions on tarmac of PNS Mehran and motivates revenge seeking Ilyas HUJI caders to go have early diwali celebrations at few more bases of TSPA they got trained in! after all they would be familiar with places they got trained in!

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 04 Jun 2011 21:34

shiv wrote: As long as the end result suits us I don;t care. but i did hope for something like this when I cheered the news of the Twin Tower going down. It was the Pearl Harbor of the 20th century. Until then Paki terrorism was "freedom fighters". The US has taken 10 years to start learning about history. If they are fighting India's war by an accident of history, so be it.

The US-TSP consensual rape must have started on 9-12-2001. Instead,It started on 5-2-2011. May be if US had actually started on 9/12/01 India would not have had to face numerous terrorist attacks since then. If it was not for US pressure on India,Indian armed forces would have had Pakistani Air force and Pakistani Navy for breakfast and Pakistani Army for dinner. India actually paid the steepest of price because of US-TSP nexus since 9/11 and US's other affairs in Afghanistan.. So any one actually suggesting that US is fighting India's war is smoking some potent stuff.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 04 Jun 2011 21:42

Altair wrote: May be if US had actually started on 9/12/01 India would not have had to face numerous terrorist attacks since then. If it was not for US pressure on India,Indian armed forces would have had Pakistani Air force and Pakistani Navy for breakfast and Pakistani Army for dinner. India actually paid the steepest of price because of US-TSP nexus since 9/11 and US's other affairs in Afghanistan.. So any one actually suggesting that US is fighting India's war is smoking some potent stuff.

Why ignore those Indians who died before 9-11? US support to Pakistan has been killing Indians from 1965 till 2001 (9-11) and the US felt no pain. The US felt the pinch on 9-11 and it has taken 10 years after 9-11 (and hundreds more Indian dead) for them to figure out that something is wrong. The US will never admit that India was right and they were wrong. This is about as good as it has got for us since 1965. If the US had so much sense as to see light on 12 Sept 2001 they would not have been busy sticking a finger up India's asshole for 45 years from 1965.

The US does not acknowledge that its support to Pakistan was by definition anti-India. The US may not have been anti India but it was too stupid or too blind to understand Pakistan. Now which country (other than India) will say "We were stupid/blind". The US is a nations that craves echandee as much as Pakistan.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 04 Jun 2011 21:45

shiv wrote:If they are fighting India's war by an accident of history, so be it.

Shiv Avure,

pardon choti muh badi baat but here is my perspective

There is no need to even say (let alone *concede*) that even as we celebrate unwinding of the US strategy of using Pakistan. They are just reaping the after effects/side effects of that strategy now having digested the benefits earlier (most of it being on our cost). SO, they are NOT fighting our war even neither by design nor by accident.

As this game is played out, we should just sit back and even aid this game to be fully played to ensure all the damage done to us (deleberately or as in crossfire) is undone.

The last time we could not avoid being in the receiving side but that lesson is learnt and we should see to it that as US plays its game or unwinds it, we are not left holding the bag or bearing the brunt.

Let's keep the focus, delay celebration till the job is thoroughly done and certainly NOT give credit where it is NOT due.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 04 Jun 2011 21:46

Plot to assassinate President Asif Ali Zardari uncovered

ISLAMABAD: Intelligence officials have arrested eight men believed to have been involved in a plot to assassinate the President.

According to intelligence sources, intelligence officials had been conducting raids for the past three weeks and had managed to arrest four people from Islamabad and four people from Punjab, who had been plotting to kill President Asif Ali Zardari.

Sources said that intelligence officials had been monitoring the trail of the plotters by tapping their mobile phone lines.

Express 24/7 correspondent Syed Ali in Islamabad said that many of the President’s meetings during the funeral services of Hakim Ali Zardari had been cancelled due to security reasons.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 04 Jun 2011 21:52

Satya_anveshi wrote: Let's keep the focus, delay celebration till the job is thoroughly done and certainly NOT give credit where it is NOT due.

By the same token it hurts to see India taking the blame when blame is unfair. All we do on here is blame India and other Indians as if we are from Mars of some other planet while we go ga ga about the "go getting" US. If the US is "go-getting" people we want to see dead maybe we can hold the praise but hold the criticism of India too for not getting Kashmiri.

When we talk of "credit" - it would be fair to see how much India's own fortitude and pressure on Pakistan has helped the US mould Pakistan in ways that the US will never acknowledge. And neither will Indians do that because we are hell bent on proving that fellow Indians are useless idiots.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 04 Jun 2011 21:53

Altair:

Also, US is speaking from both ends: its mouth & musharaff. They will eloquently talk about unprecedented Indo-US coopeation on terror, and then next breath have the slimy gall to suggest that oh so poor Pakis need pigLeTs to fend off big India that is sooooo threatning to TSP. I mean the pro-Paki anti-India wilful fraud in this formulation makes my BP hit the roof. Bottom line: Nothing in US actions nor statements indicate to me that US is prepared to grant that India has been a viscous victim of TSP terror, and that terror must stop and Pakis brought to justice before any meaninful peace piss can prevail. But I will admit that post 26/11, there has been some US pressure on TSP to curb "good terrorism" a tad.

Also, please remember we do not know what deal US, especially 150,0000 star general Mullen cut with Kiyani. I won't be suprised if after milking the crap out of TSP, US officials will indeed turn their guns on Kashmir and loudly and pompously talk about the "sufferings of KMs", as a way to assuage TSP H&D and continue to use it as a client.

Remember, when it suits US, and it is in its interests, suddenly phony love of Muslims develops even as in the next breath they won't hesitate to kill a "bad Musim's" grand kids as they did with Quaddafi. Also recall, how they destroyed Yoguslavia ostensibly to save the Bosnian Muslims. I am not sure what it is that Milosevic and Mladic did in Bosnia that Bush Sr & Bush Jr & Clinton & Cheney & Blair et. al did not do many times over in Iraq. Yet this self rigteous obsession about the genocide of Bosnian Muslims.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 04 Jun 2011 21:54

shiv wrote:
Altair wrote: May be if US had actually started on 9/12/01 India would not have had to face numerous terrorist attacks since then. If it was not for US pressure on India,Indian armed forces would have had Pakistani Air force and Pakistani Navy for breakfast and Pakistani Army for dinner. India actually paid the steepest of price because of US-TSP nexus since 9/11 and US's other affairs in Afghanistan.. So any one actually suggesting that US is fighting India's war is smoking some potent stuff.
Why ignore those Indians who died before 9-11? US support to Pakistan has been killing Indians from 1965 till 2001 (9-11) and the US felt no pain. The US felt the pinch on 9-11 and it has taken 10 years after 9-11 (and hundreds more Indian dead) for them to figure out that something is wrong. The US will never admit that India was right and they were wrong. This is about as good as it has got for us since 1965. If the US had so much sense as to see light on 12 Sept 2001 they would not have been busy sticking a finger up India's asshole for 45 years from 1965.

The US does not acknowledge that its support to Pakistan was by definition anti-India. The US may not have been anti India but it was too stupid or too blind to understand Pakistan. Now which country (other than India) will say "We were stupid/blind". The US is a nations that craves echandee as much as Pakistan.

THis concept of US helping India on Pakistan should be removed. The no of terrorist attack on Indian increased from 911 and many temples were targeted. The nature of the threat is far more dangerous than what is being projected.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 04 Jun 2011 21:59

Acharya wrote:
THis concept of US helping India on Pakistan should be removed. The no of terrorist attack on Indian increased from 911 and many temples were targeted. The nature of the threat is far more dangerous than what is being projected.

Ironically the US is able to play off India against Pakistan - arming them if necessary and threatening them that India will get their support. India cannot do anything about this game that the US plays other than to tweak the game so that it is more advantageous for the US to play a game that suits India than to play a game that suits Pakistan. Any ay that India can contriobute to teh social, economic and military collapse of Pakistan helps.

By refusing to buckle under pressure from the US, NATO, P5, Pakistan, OIC and the whole jing bang world with zero allies India has successfully held out to see Pakistan go against its mentor - forcing the mentor to change tack.
I had posted this image earlier

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 04 Jun 2011 22:21

shiv wrote:When we talk of "credit" - it would be fair to see how much India's own fortitude and pressure on Pakistan has helped the US mould Pakistan in ways that the US will never acknowledge. And neither will Indians do that because we are hell bent on proving that fellow Indians are useless idiots.

Absolutely agreeable. Given all that is going on in our neighbourhood (and in the world), the way we held our fort for the last 2+ years is testament of a working strategy and all the credit should flow there with a caution that guard can't be let down just yet.

Further this being a paki thread, following is my template on how I view comments (more caution to desirable as we go down):
- bringing India into this lovefest as a negative influence or even as photographer
- saying US engaging with pakistan is good/neutral for India ; US is dealing with Pakistan on its terms. We bore the brunt of that lovefest; if some good comes by due to friction, no reason to give US the credit
- appearing dumb/morons is lesser crime
- "appearance" of engagement with Pakistan as MMS is doing
- appearing as a silent bystander, reducing/eliminating negative impact of that lovefest even as we further our interest