Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 2011

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A_Gupta
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by A_Gupta »

^^^ Anything supporting the story of the sharpshooter who killed a Pakistani soldier at 600 yards in the inventory below????
As many as 10 hand grenades, two rocket launchers, four Kalashnikovs and fifty-five rounds of bullets were recovered from the crime scene, according to report.

Report also stated that a total of 860 shells of Kalashnikovs’ bullets, 165 shells of triple-two Rifle’s bullets, 30 shells of G3 Gun’s bullets, seven rocket shells, seven shells of Airgas, eight pieces of rocket and a suicide vest were seized after armed forces retook control of the naval facility.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by VikramS »

Bill seems to have confirmed out suspicion about the fake IK death. His sources in the Intelligence say they could not confirm the death. The alacrity with which the death was acknowledged reeked of tactical brilliance.

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/ ... ge_ove.php
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by GuruPrabhu »

^^^ should Bill give credit to vdutta?
But it has been discovered that the photograph, said to depict the slain Kashmiri, is in fact that of Abu Dera Ismael Khan, a Lashkar-e-Taiba fighter who was one of the members of the suicide assault team that attacked Mumbai, India, in November 2008. Also, the original statement released by HUJI contained misspellings of the terror group's name, Arif Rafiq, the Editor of The Pakistan Policy Blog, told The Long War Journal.

Read more: http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/ ... z1OSga0dpd
I am quite certain that Bill got this info from Rangudu who got it from vdutta.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by ramana »

They mention vdutta in the comments. However he is not credited directly.

Now we need to algorithm vdutta's mind for a picture search engine!!!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by GuruPrabhu »

ramana wrote:They mention vdutta in the comments. However he is not credited directly.

Now we need to algorithm vdutta's mind for a picture search engine!!!
ok, but I see no reference to vdutta or BRF in the main article. Bill Roggio was completely off-track until corrected by BRF. If he has any honesty, he should acknowledge how he was totally stupid in accepting a picture that vdutta showed to be wrong.

This sort of issue is what separates honest bloggers from the riff-raff. I realize that Rogggio is connected to KK, but that does not get him a free pass. Acknowledging the F-up will give him credibility about the fact that he can't always be right. I urge Rangudu to chide him into accepting the truth.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Gagan »

It is highly possible that the ISI has decided to 'retire' Iliyas Kashmiri in some safehouse in a tourist place for some R&R until the heat blows off.

If Iliyas Kashmiri stays low till the US leaves Af-Pak, I think everyone is going to be OK with that. As long as Pakistan's core assets don't go after the US, and damage Pak-US relations further, everyone is going to be happy and no one is going to do anything about the guys who are not attacking the US.

The US is so pressed right now, that they are prioritizing on only the targets who are directly interfering with the GOAT (their GOAT), and the Af-Pak mission. There are a much larger number of Jihadis who if they lie low right now, will escape the US dragnet.

Pakistan needs all these guys for anti-India operations, and they will go all out to protect an asset like IK. If there were some differences between the ISI and IK, they will have been resolved by now, with the ISI giving him protection from the US.

Again, the ISI will not take out two people from the list of 4 that the US gave them. They will not take out Iliyas Kashmiri, in fact they'll go all out to protect and preserve him - asking him to fake his death and lay off the US for the time being, is all in tune with what they have been doing. And the ISI won't take out Sirajuddin Haqqani. He is the main guy attacking NATO forces today, and will be their main strongman tomorrow when they have to re-take Kabul. Both IK and SH are young and have been inspirational to their cadres, and are the ISI's core assets.

I will take the news of the deaths of these two guys with a truckload of salt, unless there is incontrovertible proof.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Gagan »

Nice work Vdutta-ji.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by ramana »

I think this fiasco will require US to do more Abbotabad type raids if TSP continues to pull such capers.

Its grotesque/macabre humor to pass off 26/11 attackers picture as Ilyas Kashmiri who was the handler/trainer of that gang.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by shravan »

Senior KESC official shot dead in Malir
Unidentified men shot dead an official of the Karachi Electric Supply Company, who was also a retired colonel, in the Malir Cantt police limits late on Sunday night.

The investigators termed the murder of Colonel (Retd) Saqi as an act of targeted killing.
---

I hope they kill other Colonels & ISI men who get 5,00,000 p.m. from KESC
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Virupaksha »

So Pakistan has again started its game of "Does America have brains and if it has, will it really use the stick against MUNNA in a public fashion" in a very very public fashion.

Time for some pop corn I guess.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Johann »

Arjun wrote:
Johann wrote:Unfortunately even the battle against the 'far enemy' turned in to a war against 'near enemies' in places like Iraq and Yemen, which has discredited them in the eyes of the Arab public.
Johann, the insight regarding the motivations of the Arab jihadis is very useful. But would you disagree with the two points that I think Shiv is making-

1. 9/11 would not have happened if Pakistan had not been a failed, terrorism-supporting state.
2. The US has been hypocritical in the past where it has supported (or more charitably, turned a blind eye towards) terrorism directed against other states (specifically India), until 9/11 when it became a victim of the same forces?
Hi Arjun,

1. Pakistan has helped turn the region in to the best base in the world for the global jihad, but it is not the only place it could have been staged out of. If Pakistan had been unavailable, 9/11 would just as easily have been launched from Somalia or Yemen. The difference is that Bin Laden would have met his 72 a bit sooner. On the other hand the Saudi jihadi revolution might have also gotten here sooner.

2. Of course the US has been hypocritical, but in a way that are actually both worse and better than what Shiv has suggested. He claimed that the US Government routinely talked of Pakistani jihadis as 'freedom fighters'. I'm not sure where he got that from.

If you look back the the State Department "Patterns of Global Terror" annual reports, with the exception of a couple of years under the Pakistani apologist Robin Raphel, most of them before 9/11 describe them as 'committing acts of terror', although, and stating that there were 'credible reports' that these groups were materially supported by the Pakistani government. Despite this, most of the 'acts of terror' were not listed as you know until the 2000s.

On the other other hand India's treatment is far from unique. Turkey was a close NATO ally in the period, and yet the reports made no report of the fact that Greek intelligence supported the PKK's separatist insurgency and campaign of terrrorist bombings, and had done so for over a decade. Syria's support for the same PKK on the other hand was mentioned.

This is much like their highlighting of Iranian state support for Hamas, while soft-peddling Saudi support for the same.

Of course none of this makes US behavior alright - but it does show that it has little to do with India specifically, or even the nature of India's relationship with the US. Rather it was determined by the US desire to avoid conflict with other parties like Greece, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan unless they directly threaten American lives/security/interests the way that Syria and Iran did. That sort of hypocrisy would of course be easier to deal with if it was more openly acknowledged.

---------------------------

The point is that the world is much bigger than either India or Pakistan, or even the two combined. It is important to remember when were are talking about global players like the United States, or for that matter Al-Qaeda. Being Indo-centric in thinking does not have to mean refusing to see the global picture.

The world is changing though - as the Arabs fall out of the Salafi Jihadi movement, the Pakistanis are moving to fill that vacuum. As America staggers under the impact of its mistakes, other powers like India and China fill in spaces.

In short the Arab-Pakistani relationship in jihad is like a joint venture. The Pakistanis provided on and off security and access, but the Arabs provided the ideology and most importantly the money. Whose cash has kept those jihad factory madrasas not just working but expanding? Just as Pakistan's conventional arsenal depends on American arms and money, its nukes on Chinese technology and Saudi money, the jihadi venture runs on Gulf cash.

The Sunni Gulf's dependence and orientation towards Sunni jihadis as a bulwark against the Shias and Iran is a huge destabilising factor globally. Just as the India-Pakistan problem has become America and the world's problem, the Saudi-Iran thing is India and the world's problem.
Last edited by Johann on 06 Jun 2011 09:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by GuruPrabhu »

Johann wrote:The point is that the world is much bigger than either India or Pakistan, or even the two combined. It is important to remember when were are talking about global players like the United States, or for that matter Al-Qaeda. Being Indo-centric in thinking does not have to mean refusing to see the global picture.
That is a load of crock. One can just as easily say that the world is a bigger place than US and UQ combined if one takes into account places like New Zealand. Peddle your wares elsewhere, this is BR and your comments are about as useful as a Paki in Bradford.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by pradeepe »

"860 shells of Kalashnikovs’ bullets, 165 shells of triple-two Rifle’s bullets, 30 shells of G3 Gun’s bullets, seven rocket shells, seven shells of Airgas, eight pieces of rocket and a suicide vest were seized after armed forces retook control of the naval facility."

For a gun battle puportedly lasting 15 hours between thousands of pigs and 10 nuttier pigs, thats a very low used shell count. I would suspect a lot of time was spent negotiating. For what?

Were there any reports of fissile material on the base. Someone earlier mentioned that the pigs were dressed like star wars characters.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Rangudu »

VDutta gets the credit, but Bill says that a few other Indian readers had alerted him around the same time with proof of the fake pic.

It's a pathetic job by the ISI naPaks.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Anujan »

^^^^
Also if the shells were from AK and G3, what to make of the initial report (pulled out of musharraf) that the attackers were using M16s and H&Ks?

This is a (purer shade of) Green on Green.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by GuruPrabhu »

Rangudu wrote:VDutta gets the credit, but Bill says that a few other Indian readers had alerted him around the same time with proof of the fake pic.

It's a pathetic job by the ISI naPaks.
Thanks for taking care of that. ISI is pathetic, yes, but so was your buddy Roggio.

Is he an analyst or a conduit of garbage?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Johann »

Guru Prabhu,

You should think your analogies through a little better when that red mist is descending - It might be better to say that when India acts on the global stage it doesn't have many reasons of its own to treat Iran much worse than America treats Pakistan....which I would agree with incidentally. Americans often have tremendous difficulty seeing their own blind spots or understanding the perspectives of others.

If you had trouble understanding what I said, I'll put a little more clearly - putting India squarely at the centre of Indians calculations isn't the same thing as imagining that the Subcontinent is at the centre of *other people's* interests and motivations. This is only one corner of the world.

The Arabs didnt care about India in the 1990s. The Americans didnt care about India in the 1990s. They both cared about Israel, and they both cared about what kinds of governments ruled in the Middle East. Deal with it.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by GuruPrabhu »

Johann wrote:The Arabs didnt care about India in the 1990s. The Americans didnt care about India in the 1990s. They both cared about Israel, and they both cared about what kinds of governments ruled in the Middle East. Deal with it.
Yes, I expected this sort of hubris from you. Fine. the point is that *no one* cares about the Queen any more. And soon, no one will care about the US. Deal with it.

If you need help reorienting your outdated philosophy, ask here, and ye shall receive.
Last edited by GuruPrabhu on 06 Jun 2011 09:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Amber G. »

ramana wrote:Now we need to algorithm vdutta's mind for a picture search engine!!!
Facial l recognition software is quite good these days. Like fingerprints..we should collect as much data as possible.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by CRamS »

Johann wrote:The point is that the world is much bigger than either India or Pakistan, or even the two combined. It is important to remember when were are talking about global players like the United States, or for that matter Al-Qaeda. Being Indo-centric in thinking does not have to mean refusing to see the global picture.
Now, now, my friend, you have never given me a straight answer on this one. US sure is a global plyer, much so than India given that it is an empire with interests around the globe and can defends those when under threat. Regarding this bogus Al Queda crap, please answer my following questions:

1) Why is Al Queda terrorism against US "global" while Paki terrorism against India is "local"?
2) If you claim that Al Queda attacks not only US but its western lackeys as well and hence "global", then give me an answer to this which I have posed many-a-times. After 9/11, if pipsqueaks like UK and others took a neutral stance, would they have been under OBL's radar? Prior to 9/11, I don't recall the existance of Al Queda, and while I heard of OBL, he mentioned only US and Israel, none of the other lackeys of US. Recall, after 26/11, a henious attack on India by Pakis, US and its pipsqueak allies had the gall to say that they don't want to take sides. By the same token, why did pipsqueaks like UK, Canada, Australia etc jump on the US bandwagon as though they were attacked? White brotherhood?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by shiv »

Johann wrote: The point is that the world is much bigger than either India or Pakistan, or even the two combined. It is important to remember when were are talking about global players like the United States, or for that matter Al-Qaeda. Being Indo-centric in thinking does not have to mean refusing to see the global picture.

The world is certainly bigger than India, Pakistan and Afghanistan combined. In fact Pakistan and Afghanistan are even smaller. But that is a banal truism like "It's cold in winter" In no way does that inalterable fact change the reality that Pakistan and Afghanistan concentrated in one corner of the world within a 500 km radius circle got the "Global United States" to open its eyes to something that they were ignoring as not important enough - presumably using the same sanctimonious thought process that its all too small to be noticed on a global scale.

Inability to see detail because one imagines that one is looking at the "big picture" is precisely the reason why 9-11 occurred. What was happening between India and Pakistan was after all "too small and irrelevant". Pakistan certainly made itself relevant even if India did not. But if anyone had bothered to see the statistics (that I have linked above) it is clear that in a typical year (1998) India had 1442 terrorist deaths while the rest of the world had 741 deaths. But what was reported as "terrorist deaths" in the world media was just the 741 and not a chirp about deaths and events in India. Clearly the world media were in total agreement with you that India is too small to be counted in the world. Pakistan was conducting a frenzied series of attacks in India but none of this was noticed because as you say :" the world is much bigger than either India or Pakistan, or even the two combined. It is important to remember when were are talking about global players like the United States, or for that matter Al-Qaeda."

But suddenly, after 9-11 Afghanistan became important to the "global player" and when that did not work, Pakistan did. The "global player" was too busy looking at everything other than what he should have looked at and it was going on right here between India and Pakistan. That makes mockery of your statement Johann.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by GuruPrabhu »

CRamS wrote: By the same token, why did pipsqueaks like UK, Canada, Australia etc jump on the US bandwagon as though they were attacked? White brotherhood?
Oh no, now Johann will have to actually think for a change. :mrgreen:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by shiv »

Johann is posting an American centric viewpoint as exemplified by this report
http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpap ... per192.htm
Between January 1, 1988, and October 31,1998, (subsequent figures not yet available), there was a total of 38,753 Pakistani-sponsored terrorist incidents in Jammu & Kashmir. During the same period, according to the annual reports on the Patterns of Global Terrorism issued by the US State Department, there were 4,411 terrorist incidents in the rest of the world.
38000 incidents in India did not count or come into US consciousness because as Johann said:
the world is much bigger than either India or Pakistan, or even the two combined. It is important to remember when were are talking about global players like the United States, or for that matter Al-Qaeda.
Is it any wonder that 9-11 occurred? You might make a blind man see, but not someone who does not want to see.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Johann »

GuruPrabhu wrote:
Johann wrote:The Arabs didnt care about India in the 1990s. The Americans didnt care about India in the 1990s. They both cared about Israel, and they both cared about what kinds of governments ruled in the Middle East. Deal with it.
Yes, I expected this sort of hubris from you. Fine. the point is that *no one* cares about the Queen any more. And soon, no one will care about the US. Deal with it.

If you need help reorienting your outdated philosophy, ask here, and ye shall receive.
Guru Prabhu - what on earth makes you think I should expect anyone to care about the Queen? Really, you should deal with people as individuals rather than silly stereotypes.

As for America, while they will not stride the world in the way that they once did, especially if they show the fiscal discipline of Banana republic, but short of an asteroid strike they will continue to be a major power in the 21st century. Have you looked at food prices lately?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by GuruPrabhu »

Johann wrote:As for America, while they will not stride the world in the way that they once did, especially if they show the fiscal discipline of Banana republic, but short of an asteroid strike they will continue to be a major power in the 21st century. Have you looked at food prices lately?
Trust me, I want to believe that dream very much. However, the wealthiest of america have chosen to invest outside of america. This is a well documented fact -- seek and ye shall receive enough reading materials on the subject.

Why would you wish to believe in outdated stereotypes? Have you looked at the unemployment figures lately?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by VikramS »

GuruPrabhu:

Chill man. Even TinEye can identify that it is a bogus job. I am quite sure that the US computers would have nailed it long before vdutta's gray-matter MKI nailed it. Bill has clearly acknowledged that many posters have pointed this out to him; he also acknowledged my tweet on the issue.

There is an element of truth in what Johann says. Your diatribe about Bill R is uncalled for.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by GuruPrabhu »

VikramS wrote: There is an element of truth in what Johann says. Your diatribe about Bill R is uncalled for.
I do not see the connection between what Johann and I are talking about and Bill Roggio. If you are such a know-all, please point it out.

Otherwise, just relax in your corner and desist from bogus intrusions. There is no need for such silliness.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Arjun »

GuruPrabhu wrote:Trust me, I want to believe that dream very much. However, the wealthiest of america have chosen to invest outside of america. This is a well documented fact -- seek and ye shall receive enough reading materials on the subject.

Why would you wish to believe in outdated stereotypes? Have you looked at the unemployment figures lately?
GP, please cool it. Its way too early for India to start building castles in the air....A lot of things can go wrong yet for India and the probability of the US continuing to be a top power is higher than the probability of India making it to the top in the next 20 years. Attitudes of everyone around the world will automatically change once that happens.

I think Johann agrees that the US is unable to see a lot of things due to hubris - but one can't deny that a century of 'superpowerdom' can induce a certain amount of hubris in any nation.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Most American still have difficulty believing that so much of their terror problem originates in TSP.

Accordingly most believe Saudi's carried out 911, its is Pashtun/Afghan fighters who are the problem in Afghania and that TSP is so focused on India that they skip America. They ignore data reports, surveys and actual actions even.

I'm not sure what it would take to wake them up from this delusion.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by shiv »

It is one thing to claim that the US thinks globally. Clearly it was not thinking globally when the terrorism that was being fomented in Pakistan during the 90s was ignored. The 90s of course are the "dark ages" when the US is said to have abandoned Pakistan. But what was the US thinking in 1990? the US was thinking "Rah Rah Rah! We won the cold war!"

The US was a safer place after the USSR collapsed, or so it was thought. Note- the US was safer. Not India. To say that this was "global level thinking" is a curious act of cognitive bias. What's good for the US is good for the world. But clearly what was happening in Pakistan was not good for the US. In fact the events in the area were to lead to the biggest attack on American soil barely a decade later. The US, that is purported to think globally was blind to this.

Imagining that the US is capable of thinking on a global scale and peddling that snake oil here is a problem. The US is capable of wreaking havoc on a global scale but was unable to think things through on a similar scale. Heck Pakistan too is capable of wreaking havoc on a global scale and has shown that capability. But what does that say about the global unimportance of Pakistan? Or the global problems that the US is said to be dealing with.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by GuruPrabhu »

Arjun wrote: GP, please cool it. Its way too early for India to start building castles in the air....A lot of things can go wrong yet for India and the probability of the US continuing to be a top power is higher than the probability of India making it to the top in the next 20 years. Attitudes of everyone around the world will automatically change once that happens.

I think Johann agrees that the US is unable to see a lot of things due to hubris - but one can't deny that a century of 'superpowerdom' can induce a certain amount of hubris in any nation.
Ah, the entreaties to "cool it" are multiplying. Why is that so? Please ask anyone who has money invested in the US market. And then advise them to "cool it". Do you have any funds invested in this market and are you then chilling back with a tall drink and advocating "cool it"?

Posting on BRF is easy. Watching out for one's funds is a different matter altogether. How much money does Johann have in this "cool it" market? Lets talk brass tacks rather than silly generalities.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by VikramS »

GuruPrabhu wrote:
Johann wrote:As for America, while they will not stride the world in the way that they once did, especially if they show the fiscal discipline of Banana republic, but short of an asteroid strike they will continue to be a major power in the 21st century. Have you looked at food prices lately?
Trust me, I want to believe that dream very much. However, the wealthiest of america have chosen to invest outside of america. This is a well documented fact -- seek and ye shall receive enough reading materials on the subject.

Why would you wish to believe in outdated stereotypes? Have you looked at the unemployment figures lately?
This is OT but has been discussed in the Global Meltdown thread. The Americans will be more than happy to see the USD lose another 20-30%. That unemployment rate you talk about is because of the huge global trade imbalance which is primarily because of the currency peg and the loss of the manufacturing base. The Fed's QE programs is the American way of fighting back; they want inflation to force foreign currencies to appreciate.

And have you looked at the unemployment rate in Europe. Even the best of the Europe, Germans, there is massive under-reporting; it is estimated that every one tax-paying W European supports 2 non-tax paying people. Have you seen the amount of land which the US has? Do you have any idea about the natural resources which are not being utilized? Societies which do not evolve die. The US has a history of evolving and coping with changes. You just need to look at the current occupant of the White House to get the message.

I have said it very often. The US is the one-eyed king of the blind (which includes China). India is in some ways an Island, why by the way is a wonderful place to be when there are massive global structural imbalances.

====
I do not see the connection between what Johann and I are talking about and Bill Roggio. If you are such a know-all, please point it out.

Otherwise, just relax in your corner and desist from bogus intrusions. There is no need for such silliness.
I am afraid even if it is pointed out, you will be likely by unwilling to see it.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Rajiv Lather »

Shiv, GuruPrabhu, Vikram, CRamS, Arjun don't fall for it please. Let us concentrate on Kashmiri and what is happening in Pakistan.

Diversionary tactics.

Brilliant work by VDutta !
Last edited by Rajiv Lather on 06 Jun 2011 10:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by shiv »

Theo_Fidel wrote: I'm not sure what it would take to wake them up from this delusion.
Back to Cognitive Dissonance. Terrorism in India and later in other places and 9-11 came from the same people, training camps and techniques that were used to push the Soviets out of Afghanistan and "win" the cold war. Admitting that those techniques and tactics backfired on the US would be a huge loss of face.

So Americans like to think that the cold war was won fair and square by American strength and clever tactics and that this whole business of terrorism is totally separate. In truth the cold war and terrorism are related to each other in a continuous string that runs through Pakistan.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by GuruPrabhu »

VikramS wrote:
I am afraid
even if it is pointed out, you will be likely by unwilling to see it.
be afraid, very afraid -- it is above your level of understanding. Now, just "cool it" and let others talk.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by vdutta »

Thanks for the kind words guys :)

After i saw the picture here on BRF i went to longwarjournal and SITEintelgroup sites and emailed them the blunder.
I am glad if i was able to be any help.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by VikramS »

GuruPrabhu:

I am not sure how you went towards US markets. I am not even sure what you mean by markets (equity, bond, real-estate, gold, oil, grains). I hope you do not use stock-market as a yardstick for everything under the sun.. And even if you do, here are the past 3 years of the Shangai Composite versus various US indices.
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$SSEC& ... 3216719521

BTW: I do not have any faith in these metrics as a reflection of what is going to happen in the future. The US is very likely going to go through a very painful period of transition for the next few years.

===

Thanks Rajiv. This is the last of my post.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Johann »

CRamS wrote: 1) Why is Al Queda terrorism against US "global" while Paki terrorism against India is "local"?
It is certainly a fair question, and the answer has a couple of components, some which reflect the inherent unfairness of the international system.

- The first is made explicit in Al-Qaeda's own statements and ideology which sought to convince Muslims around the world that there was a point to attacking the "Far Enemy". In fact Ilyas Kashmiri quotes the same ideology in his interview with Saleem Shahzad in 2009. In short its a top-down view of the world where the US as the global hegemonic power is the upholder of the system. If you want fundamental change in any part of the world, whether the Middle East or the Subcontinent, then you must push America out of the picture, and you must punish its allies as well. This is not an unusual point of view. Many anti-Globalisation protestors, Marxists, and even some people here skeptical of the American role say the same thing. India has no such global role at this time. When Al Qaeda set off bombs in Madrid, it did it to weaken the American Coalition in Iraq, not India's position in Afghanistan. It is the same when Al Qaeda in Iraq bombed hotels in Amman, Jordan.

- Al Qaeda attacks the United States and its allies wherever it can - in the Americas, Europe, Africa, South Asia, East Asia, wherever possible. Attacks on Indian targets by Pakistan have been largely confined to the Subcontinent - Afghanistan, India, Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. This might change, but that is where things are.
2) If you claim that Al Queda attacks not only US but its western lackeys as well and hence "global", then give me an answer to this which I have posed many-a-times. After 9/11, if pipsqueaks like UK and others took a neutral stance, would they have been under OBL's radar? Prior to 9/11, I don't recall the existance of Al Queda, and while I heard of OBL, he mentioned only US and Israel, none of the other lackeys of US. Recall, after 26/11, a henious attack on India by Pakis, US and its pipsqueak allies had the gall to say that they don't want to take sides. By the same token, why did pipsqueaks like UK, Canada, Australia etc jump on the US bandwagon as though they were attacked? White brotherhood?
Al-Qaeda was first named as a threat by Arab allies of the US - Jordan and Egypt, specifically, and it was a couple of years before the Americans took it seriously. Just like the way America ignored Pakistani involvement in global jihadi terrorism, the Americans refused to recognise that these local Arab jihadis had a transnational element until 1995.

India and the United States are in the process of developing a strategic relationship. Its a slow process, but it would seem to me that things are far better than they used to be.

In contrast the United States and the other countries you mention are bound by mutual-defence treaties, and decades of close cooperation and mutual dependence. If you don't know what Article V of the NATO treaty is, then you should look it up, because the Americans invoked it after 9/11 for the first time. Of course there are limits. Canada did not go to Iraq.

Yet none of these countries, except perhaps France would be interested in joining the US in a war against Iran, and certainly none of them were interested in getting involved against North Korea.

Deobandi jihadis from HUJI preferred British as well as American hostages when trying to secure Azhar's release in the 1990s, and a foiled jihadi plot in Yemen was aimed largely at British targets. Bin Laden had in his messages in the 1990s also warned both France and the UK to distance themselves from the US if they did not want similar treatment.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by GuruPrabhu »

VikramS wrote:BTW: I do not have any faith in these metrics as a reflection of what is going to happen in the future. The US is very likely going to go through a very painful period of transition for the next few years.
There is one simple metric -- how much money do you have invested in the US economy? And how do you feel about the health of your money?

Everything else is simple rhetoric.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by UBanerjee »

What constitutes a local terrorist group and what is global?

For example does LTTE count as local but LeT is global? Or vice versa? Or both/neither?

We can expect the answer to simply reflect the chauvinism of the responders.
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