Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 2011

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Shrinivasan
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Shrinivasan »

Prem wrote:"Friday" is one of the Kuffar terms. Pakistan is islam and islam is what Pakistani do and in Pakistan it is called Fry-Day not Friday. The day is usually celebrate by making Poak Fries and Catch Up.
they can call it whatever they want, Paki blood is going to flow tomorrow. I am expecting a 4 figure count... What happened to the Chechen group which threatened the Frontier Corps and said they'll avenge the death of those 5 Chechens.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Anurag »

From Abbottabad to Worse


Christopher Hitchens

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/feat ... den-201107

Salman Rushdie’s upsettingly brilliant psycho-profile of Pakistan, in his 1983 novel, Shame, rightly laid emphasis on the crucial part played by sexual repression in the Islamic republic. And that was before the Talibanization of Afghanistan, and of much of Pakistan, too. Let me try to summarize and update the situation like this: Here is a society where rape is not a crime. It is a punishment. Women can be sentenced to be raped, by tribal and religious kangaroo courts, if even a rumor of their immodesty brings shame on their menfolk. In such an obscenely distorted context, the counterpart term to shame—which is the noble word “honor”—becomes most commonly associated with the word “killing.” Moral courage consists of the willingness to butcher your own daughter.

If the most elemental of human instincts becomes warped in this bizarre manner, other morbid symptoms will disclose themselves as well. Thus, President Asif Ali Zardari cringes daily in front of the forces who openly murdered his wife, Benazir Bhutto, and who then contemptuously ordered the crime scene cleansed with fire hoses, as if to spit even on the pretense of an investigation. A man so lacking in pride—indeed lacking in manliness—will seek desperately to compensate in other ways. Swelling his puny chest even more, he promises to resist the mighty United States, and to defend Pakistan’s holy “sovereignty.” This puffery and posing might perhaps possess a rag of credibility if he and his fellow middlemen were not avidly ingesting $3 billion worth of American subsidies every year.

There’s absolutely no mystery to the “Why do they hate us?” question, at least as it arises in Pakistan. They hate us because they owe us, and are dependent upon us. The two main symbols of Pakistan’s pride—its army and its nuclear program—are wholly parasitic on American indulgence and patronage. But, as I wrote for Vanity Fair in late 2001, in a long report from this degraded country, that army and those nukes are intended to be reserved for war against the neighboring democracy of India. Our bought-and-paid-for pretense that they have any other true purpose has led to a rancid, resentful official hypocrisy, and to a state policy of revenge, large and petty, on the big, rich, dumb Americans who foot the bill. If Pakistan were a character, it would resemble the one described by Alexander Pope in his Epistle to Dr Arbuthnot:

• “Terrorism’s Dark Master” (Peter Bergen, November 2001)

• The Oral History of Osama bin Laden (Peter Bergen, January 2006)

• Osama bin Laden versus the world (Peter Bergen, January 2011)

• Pakistan: “On the Frontiers of Apocalypse” (Christopher Hitchens, January 2002)

• David Rose sifts through “The Osama Files” (January 2002)


Willing to wound, and yet afraid to strike.
Just hint a fault, and hesitate dislike:
Alike reserved to blame, or to commend,
A timorous foe, and a suspicious friend …
So well-bred Spaniels civilly delight
In mumbling of the game they dare not bite.

There’s an old cliché in client-state relations, about the tail wagging the dog, but have we really considered what it means when we actually are the tail, and the dog is our goddam lapdog? The lapdog’s surreptitious revenge has consisted in the provision of kennels for attack dogs. Everybody knew that the Taliban was originally an instrument for Pakistani colonization of Afghanistan. Everybody knew that al-Qaeda forces were being sheltered in the Pakistani frontier town of Quetta, and that Khalid Sheikh Muhammed was found hiding in Rawalpindi, the headquarters of the Pakistani Army. Bernard-Henri Lévy once even produced a damning time line showing that every Pakistani “capture” of a wanted jihadist had occurred the week immediately preceding a vote in Congress on subventions to the government in Islamabad. But not even I was cynical enough to believe that Osama bin Laden himself would be given a villa in a Pakistani garrison town on Islamabad’s periphery. I quote below from a letter written by my Pakistani friend Irfan Khawaja, a teacher of philosophy at Felician College, in New Jersey. He sent it to me in anguish just after bin Laden, who claimed to love death more than life, had met his presumably desired rendezvous:

I find, however, that I can’t quite share in the sense of jubilation. I never believed that bin Laden was living in some hideaway “in the tribal areas.” But to learn that he was living in Abbottabad, after Khalid Sheikh Muhammed was discovered in Rawalpindi, is really too much for me. I don’t feel jubilation. I feel a personal, ineradicable sense of betrayal. For ten years, I’ve watched members of my own family taking to the streets, protesting the US military presence in northern Pakistan and the drone strikes etc. They stood there and prattled on and on about “Pakistan’s sovereignty,” and the supposed invasion of it by US forces.

:rotfl: Well, what ****** sovereignty? What ****** sovereignty were these people “protecting”? It’s bad enough that the Pakistani army lacks sovereignty over the tribal area and can’t control it when the country’s own life depends upon it. But that bin Laden was living in the Pakistani equivalent of Annapolis, MD …

You will notice that Irfan is here registering genuine shame, in the sense of proper outrage and personal embarrassment, and not some vicarious parody of emotion where it is always others—usually powerless women—who are supposedly bringing the shame on you.

:rotfl:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by krisna »

Cut Pakistan Loose
As the United States reviews its troubled relationship with Pakistan after the killing of Osama bin Laden, a number of thoughtful voices have argued for Washington to continue aid to Islamabad. The money is necessary, the argument goes, both to buy support for a graceful U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan and because nuclear-armed Pakistan is "too big to fail."
This is a terrible idea.
On the other hand, the military-jihadi complex is more powerful, officially taking one-fifth of the state's budget, receiving three-quarters of direct, overt U.S. aid and presiding over a business empire with interests ranging from nuclear technology to breakfast cereal. This complex presents a security threat to the international community because it uses terrorism as an instrument of policy, secure in the knowledge that its nuclear arsenal shields it from punishment.
Economic sanctions, like those imposed after Islamabad tested nuclear weapons in 1998, hurt the average Pakistani more than they hurt the average military officer and militant. And foreign aid, of which Pakistan received significant amounts after September 2001, has benefited the officer and militant more than the hapless citizen. Even if aid is specifically earmarked for the average Pakistani, money is fungible. As long as the military establishment is in effective control of the administrative spigots, it can divert flows from other domestic revenue sources.
More aid will then only strengthen the army and its nexus with militants. It is not a coincidence that even as the U.S. has spent $20 billion in overt assistance to Pakistan since 2002, there has been both an increase in the size of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal and more antipathy toward the U.S. among the population—polls demonstrate this. Both protect the military-jihadi complex from external threats.
The time is right for Islamabad's three chief bankrollers, the U.S., China and Saudi Arabia, to cut it loose. So far the onus of preventing really bad outcomes in Pakistan—the most extreme of which is represented as a jihadi takeover of the nuclear-armed state—has fallen on them
Needless to say, turning off aid flows to Pakistan comes with risks. The army will try to play the U.S., China and Saudi Arabia against each other.
And what if tough love actually brings about the nightmare, putting a jihadi regime in control of nuclear weapons? Yes, the risks of nuclear proliferation, international terrorism and war with India are likely to increase. Even so, the overall situation would at least inject clarity in the minds of statesmen to allow them to work together and move to contain or dismantle the source of the threats.
Once aid is cut off, ground realities will create more chances for Pakistan's own state to force the army to change course. All the more reason then for the world to allow Pakistanis to decide what they want to do about their state.
As per Anupmisra post, http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 6#p1107496 ass phuck kiya nahi has already started the fun.
:(( :((
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by ramana »

anupmisra, They need the kevlar helmets and kneepads.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Prasad »

If no more gubo, why need kneepads? :mrgreen:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by A_Gupta »

Ejaz Baloch's open letter to General Pasha:
http://criticalppp.com/archives/51081
I do not hesitate or rather be apologetic in keying out your institution as murderous, genocidal and roughshod while driving in its own lane, kidnapping, torturing and killing dissenters, political and otherwise, determining, arbitrarily, what Pakistan’s national interest is and how best we should go about pursuing it by tagging political parties and leadership as Traitors, and “security Risk”, barricading their ways to power corridors by electoral frauds, rigging, making and breaking of political alliances, buying people through a mix of carrots and sticks, plundering national resources and financial institutions for the same purpose i.e Mehran Bank, killing them via eye washing Judicial Trials i.e civil or military( Sardar Nowroz’s Sons and ZAB trial) abetting their assassination i.e Benazir Bhutto murder, target killing of them i.e Habib Jalib Baloch, Maula Baksh Dashti and Prof. Saba Dashtiyari, or abducting, detaining, killing and dumping them(Thousands are missing and 160 dead bodies of missing Baloch activists are recovered so far).
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Mahendra »

cheenum wrote:
Prem wrote:Deadly militant attack on Pakistan security checkpoint Continue reading the main story
I don't agree one bit with this casualty figures... 100 militants attack, 12 of them die and only 8 soldiers are killed. what were these militants armed with STICKS? even in those days of Marauding Red-Indians attacking white settlers, the attackers armed with sickels would overwhelm the defenders (armed with muskets).

Either Paki border posts are armed to the teeth and manned by Rambos or the militants are a bunch of bimbos. Neither seems plausible.
Simple. The whole attack was based on a scenario in the social statistics paper for the g-Hadi matriculation practical exam

If 100 pious devout sunni muslims attack a check post manned by the less pious and manage to kill 8 while losing 12 of their own, what is the age adjusted piety coefficient?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by A_Gupta »

ISPR press release on Corps Commander conference:
http://ispr.gov.pk/front/main.asp?o=t-p ... r_link1763
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by MurthyB »

VikramS wrote: Kidnapping your opponent's women has been one of the most fundamental acts of subjugation, and the PakJabis are taking it into the 21st century. Pakjabi behavior is an expression of their utter and complete mental subjugation; of the Stockholm Syndrome ingrained over generations. Earlier on it was the minorities who bore the brunt; these days it is the less pure or the less pious or the less well armed.
Regarding sexual slavery, a Kuwaiti activist has a few days ago made the following recommendation:

Female activist calls for legalizing sex slavery
The activist, Salwa Al-Mutairi, suggested apparently seriously in a video broadcast online that she had been informed by some clerics that affluent Muslim men who fear being seduced or tempted into immoral behavior by the beauty of their female servants, or even of those servants 'casting spells' on them, would be better to purchase women from an 'enslaved maid' agency for sexual purposes :eek: :oops: .
We want our youth to be protected from adultery," said Al-Mutairi, suggesting that these maids could be brought as prisoners of war in war-stricken nations like Chechnya to be sold on later to devout merchants :eek: .
More on that here:
Muslim Woman Seeks to Revive Institution of Sex-Slavery
Here's a particularly interesting excerpt from her taped speech on the rules governing sex-slaves:

A Muslim state must [first] attack a Christian state—sorry, I mean any non-Muslim state—and they [the women, the future sex-slaves] must be captives of the raid. Is this forbidden? Not at all; according to Islam, sex slaves are not at all forbidden. Quite the contrary, the rules regulating sex-slaves differ from those for free women [i.e., Muslim women]: the latter's body must be covered entirely, except for her face and hands, whereas the sex-slave is kept naked from the bellybutton on up—she is different from the free woman; the free woman has to be married properly to her husband, but the sex-slave—he just buys her and that's that.
Next, onto jihad:
ramana wrote: One interesting phenomeon in Islamic society is along as the pure are invovled in external jihad (razza) or outward facing they are all happy. When they have to take on the inner jihad/struggle they turn extremely violent. The reason is they think the outward jihad is blunted as they are not adhering/following the book.
One way to deal with the unemployment problem in the Pure world
If only we can conduct a jihadist invasion at least once a year or if possible twice or three times, then many people on earth would become Muslims. And if anyone prevents our dawa or stands in our way, then we must kill them or take as hostage and confiscate their wealth, women and children. Such battles will fill the pockets of the Mujahid who can return home with 3 or 4 slaves, 3 or 4 women and 3 or 4 children. This can be a profitable business if you multiply each head by 300 or 400 dirham. This can be like financial shelter whereby a jihadist, in time of financial need, can always sell one of these heads (meaning slavery) [translated by Nonie Darwish; original Arabic recording here].
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by NikhilB »

Regarding video of rangers killing pakistani youth in Karach -

Oh My ! It's so sad to see. Even though I hate pakistanis in general for their terrorism towards India, I was sick while watching this video, and felt really sad for youth...poor fellow. And many people on deaf-n-dumb forum are, as usual, arguing on islamic morals, CIA/RAW/Mossad etc. Comm'on this is plain simple humanity. I cannot believe those people were our brethern 63 years ago !! Pathetic...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by anmol »

Uncle has again saved Pakistan.

Rana has been found guilty on two counts but not guilty in conspiracy count involving Mumbai attacks :evil:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by harbans »

After reading Shiv ji's and other comments, i did'nt watch the video. What i saw was humanity on this board. Paki/ Islamic brutality is well authored and known for centuries amongst common folk lore. Timur the Ghazwa's, Aurangzeb and Direct action day are too vivid in living memory. Islam has to come at to terms with their barbaric past. Not just against the Kufr, but against their own too, as depicted in the video i assume. I can imagine what the massacres in Delhi and Meerut would have been like when Timur, Hafiz e Koran invaded and slaughtered folks. Peace with Pakistan and within India ultimately will have to involve a very direct talk on the doctrine of Islam and the doctrine espoused by it's Prophet and followers. There is no absolutely no way out of that muddle.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Prem »

harbans wrote:After reading Shiv ji's and other comments, i did'nt watch the video. What i saw was humanity on this board. Paki/ Islamic brutality is well authored and known for centuries amongst common folk lore. Timur the Ghazwa's, Aurangzeb and Direct action day are too vivid in living memory. Islam has to come at to terms with their barbaric past. Not just against the Kufr, but against their own too, as depicted in the video i assume. I can imagine what the massacres in Delhi and Meerut would have been like when Timur, Hafiz e Koran invaded and slaughtered folks. Peace with Pakistan and within India ultimately will have to involve a very direct talk on the doctrine of Islam and the doctrine espoused by it's Prophet and followers. There is no absolutely no way out of that muddle.
Harbans ji, the video is must watch to actually feel empathy with the Indian victims of repeated massacre at the hands of Ghazis etc. Like a broken record i keep repeating the question "Do we want to leave this problem for our future generation? Do we want our children to face these islamist forces berefit of any humanity ? Do we want our children to become just like these religious yahoos? Right now humanity is facing the worst ever evil force created in the name of God and no option left but to stare it right in eyes and remove it from the scene.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by SSridhar »

ramana wrote: I would like to draw some analogies after explaining what I learned. . . .
These Kharjites took up the law unto themsleves and would attack others claiming to be more Islamic then the rest. Their standard tactic was to declare the other as apostate and kill them. . . .Now come to TSP. In 1971, the Pak Army got a massive defeat but was not destroyed thanks to US intervention and lack of understanding. Bhutto came to power and stabilised the TSP and prevented its fracture. Zia ul Haq deposed him and called him a traitor and hanged him. Zia then let lose the Islamist/Rejectionist meme in the TSPA and larger society. In effect he started the Kharjitification of Pakistan. . . . Its the Kharjite meme that propels Zia ul Haq kind of Islamic leaders and
Qadri kind of killers/murderers.
In fact, the Kharajis (meaning Secessionists) were initially the supporters of Ali in his fight for becoming the Caliph against Muwaiya. Only when Ali decided to go for arbitration did the these Kharajis secede from him, true to their name and one of them eventually killed Ali.

The PA, the Kharajis, supported ZAB initially and brought him to power only to fall foul of him later and eliminate him. All the efforts by ZAB to win the support of Islamists by launching the Islamization process were of no avail.
This was because they could not fight outwards ie the greater jihad got blunted and the inner jihad to better themselves could not be tolerated.
The trouble comes because inner jihad (jihad-al-nafs) is also fought in the same manner as outer jihad (jihad-al-saif), ie, with a sword. As it happened in Pakistan after c. 1971, the defeat was attributed to impiety and this needed to be fought by cleansing the society of Shi'a, Ahmedi, the Sufis who were less pure or not even Muslims. Theye were to be physically eliminated through sectarian terrorist organizations or through appropriate legislation or both. The jihad -al-nafs was never thought of as an individual's war against his or her own weaknesses, but was applied at a societal level to do 'cleansing'.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by shiv »

ramana wrote: One interesting phenomeon in Islamic society is along as the pure are invovled in external jihad (razza) or outward facing they are all happy. When they have to take on the inner jihad/struggle they turn extremely violent. The reason is they think the outward jihad is blunted as they are not adhering/following the book.
<snip>
Zia ul Haq deposed him and called him a traitor and hanged him. Zia then let lose the Islamist/Rejectionist meme in the TSPA and larger society. In effect he started the Kharjitification of Pakistan. This was because they could not fight outwards ie the greater jihad got blunted and the inner jihad to better themsleves could not be tolerated.

Its the Kharjite meme that propels Zia ul Haq kind of Islamic leaders and
Qadri kind of killers/murderers.
Very interesting ramana. it appears that this is the theoretical basis for an observation made by Naipaul that I had quoted in my ebook
In a remarkably prescient passage Naipaul observes (75),
The state withered, but faith didn't. Failure only led
back to the faith. The state had been founded as a
homeland for Muslims. If the state failed it wasn't
because the dream was flawed, or the faith flawed; it
could only be because men had failed the faith. And in
that quest of the Islamic absolute the society of
believers, where every action was instinct with worship
men lost sight of the political origins of their
state...Extraordinary claims began to be made for
Pakistan: it was founded as the land of the pure; it was
to be the first truly Islamic state since the days of the
Prophet and his close companions
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Altair »

There is absolutely no way Islam is going to change by the next generation or the next. It is going to remain like that like it was from the 6th century.The rest of the world will move ahead but Pure islam will eventually concentrate itself into small pockets of nations and colonies. The less pure will be ferreted out or exterminated like that poor sod in the video.Pakistan will very soon become "District 13" if it has not become already. I urge folks here to watch that movie.It is the future of Pakistan.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Rony »

The brave Islamic Police of Pakistan getting bitch slapped by the TFTA Paki Mard in front of everyone.


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by ramana »

SSridhar, Excellent deduction. Can you please make those analogies more clear an blog it? And add shiv's ref of Naipaul's observation.

Can we dig more about PA's mindset and find its analogues from the times of early Islam?

Also I found that the internal security state milieu of an Islamic state was created by Muwaiya's governor of Iraq province, his half brother Zayed. He instituted a system where the residents of Kufa ratted o each other to gain his favor. In a sense he set up the first Mukhabarat or internal intelligence outfit. He was a Sunni governor of a Shia province of Ali's adherents.

So we can see that ISI is another analogue from those days.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by anishns »

^^^

what a "Chamaat" @0:42 :rotfl: :rotfl:

[quote="Rony"]The brave Islamic Police of Pakistan getting bitch slapped by the TFTA Paki Mard in front of everyone.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Raja Bose »

^^^Why did Bakistan Bolisman not use his congenital taser to subdue the TFTA Paki rageboy? :-?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by g.sarkar »

shiv wrote:JEM I feel only sadness watching that video.......
I think I am a heartless guy when it comes to seeing Pakis die but this one pained me. The bullet can be seen blasting out of the guy's thigh at the back and his dying moments are like a surgical textbook description of a man dying of blood loss. I can describe stages of what is happening and explain them in lay terms and it pains me to note that this boy, shot needlessly could have been saved by a shirt wrapped into a ball pressed on the thigh wound......Let me make a prediction. We need to look out for assassinations of Paki army officers by their men. I believe this is likely to start sooner or later. Someone tell me that I was talking rubbish in a year's time if that does not happen. These soldiers are undisciplined. And some of them (like Qadri) are not even being disciplined.
Dr.Shiv,
Namaskar. After reading your reply, I decided to see that gruesome video one more time and respond to your post. There is more to the video than that meets the eye.
I am a part of a Californian Law enforcement agency and to keep my job, I have to be current in shooting a semi-automatic weapon and a side arm. We are required to go to a range periodically, where a range master instructs us on proper and effective means of shooting our firearms. There are very strict laws governing shooting by law enforcement agencies in the US. Fundamentally, we who do not usually shoot in anger are taught to trust our weapons, keep our cool and to shoot at the threat, and continue to shoot till the threat is eliminated. To do this effectively we are taught to shoot center mass, as that will bring down the threat quickly. And once the threat is removed, we are not allowed to shoot anymore, and we must render aid to the wounded. To do anything otherwise is against the law. I am writing this just to contrast with the conditions here and in Pukistan.
Now, to come to the Pakistani boy being shot by the Rangers, it is clear that there was no threat to the Rangers, who were armed with automatic weapons. The victim was completely unarmed. Also, the Ranger who shot him did not shoot center mass. He shot him at almost point blank range, perhaps twice. He did not aim center mass, but shot the victims thigh, and perhaps at his hand. I think there were just two shots. To me it is clear that while he may not be a physician like you, he also knew exactly what he was doing. This was an experienced killer, sending a message. He was delivering a slow death by bleeding. And I can guarantee that this was not the first time that he did this, he was too calm and collected for that. He (I can only call him a butcher, not a soldier) or his companions kept watch over the dying man, as he lay bleeding. They were careful not to waste any more bullets on him. In poor countries bullets cost more than the life they take.
Thanks, I have been enjoying your posts.
Gautam
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Raja Bose »

^^He fired 2 shots and unlike someone said earlier, the 1st shot went thru his thigh and out the back. After that a 2nd shot was fired. A 7.62 AK round will take out pretty much any flesh, muscle and bone in its path and if the guy had lived he would be crippled for life, probably minus a leg. So like you said, this was not some policeman doing it randomly in rage, this was done in a cold calculated manner with deliberate intent.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by ramana »

Shiv, Another data point is Ottomon defeat at Vienna in 1685. It took them 225 years to get over it and overthrow the Sultan/Caliph but they did.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by shiv »

Raja Bose wrote:^^He fired 2 shots and unlike someone said earlier, the 1st shot went thru his thigh and out the back. After that a 2nd shot was fired. A 7.62 AK round will take out pretty much any flesh, muscle and bone in its path and if the guy had lived he would be crippled for life, probably minus a leg. So like you said, this was not some policeman doing it randomly in rage, this was done in a cold calculated manner with deliberate intent.

His left hand appeared injured as well. But the first shot appeared to rip a piece of trouser from the back of his thigh. In a later view there appears to be a right thigh injury as well - but I need to edit and slow down the video frame by frame to do my usual gory job.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by shiv »

SSridhar wrote:The jihad -al-nafs was never thought of as an individual's war against his or her own weaknesses, but was applied at a societal level to do 'cleansing'.

When you listen to some Islamic scholars they do say that inner jihad is supposed to be against one's own weakness. But here is an example of throwing pearls before swine - where the Islamic equivalent of the advice "Doosron ki jai se pehle (external jihad) khud ko jai karein (internal jihad)" is thrown before swine in Pakistan and they promptly say "If I can't shoot him I will shoot someone else"

But the fact that Pakistanis are doing this should really be brought out by other Muslims and Muslim countries. They too often have too big a chip on their shoulder to do that - they too are corrupt, (and some are too stupid) - such as the leaders of Gulf states who need Paki mercenaries and they will not point out that Pakistanis are, in effect, shitting on Islam. Perhaps the reason for silence in the islamic world as the religion gets trashed and mocked by everyone is because the "scholars" are biased and their biases are known to despotic rulers - so the scholars and rulers reach agreement to share power and to hell with Muslims.

Notice how no one in this world is now saying Islam is a religion of peace? Or that it is the fastest expanding religion? I mean a lie can be carried on only so far and allowing a country like Pakistan to do what it does in the name of Islam speaks more about the islamic world than Pakis.
shiv
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by shiv »

g.sarkar wrote: Fundamentally, we who do not usually shoot in anger are taught to trust our weapons, keep our cool and to shoot at the threat, and continue to shoot till the threat is eliminated.
Those Pakis are a trigger happy indisciplined bunch. Bearing arms (as you have stated) caries with it a heavy responsibility - and Pakistanis have armed the most irresponsible people.

There can be no good short to medium term future for Pakistan. I can imagine these rangers protecting Chinese workmen and their wives if they come to set up infrastructure in Pakistan. It should be fairly entertaining to watch if it happens.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Dilbu »

anmol wrote:Uncle has again saved Pakistan.

Rana has been found guilty on two counts but not guilty in conspiracy count involving Mumbai attacks :evil:
Why blame Unkil? What has India done about it? If we Indians can't/don't take action then no point in getting disappointed when some one else doesn't.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by vina »

shiv wrote:There can be no good short to medium term future for Pakistan.
There is NO Future for Pakiland. It is a flawed idea born out of totally ridiculous reasons ..In fact, VS Naipaul in that book you quoted from (i forget the title,Among the Faithful I think), goes to the neurosis of societies like Pakistan, Iran, Indonesia and others which were essentially converted and trying to be more Muslim than the Arabs. He called Pakistan by it's rightful name . " A Criminal Enterprise"
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Gagan »

Why did Zia go after the Ahmediyas and the Shias?

Was it only his and some of his mullahs bigoted version of sunni thought process, or did he have a score to settle?
ZAB was shia. (so was Jinnah - and he married a Parsi)
What was Niazi? Niazi is one of the titles/ surnames that Ahmediyas have. Ahmediyas were at the forefront in the Pakistani Army, in government jobs and were much better eduacated. Abdus Salam was an Ahmediya.

Sounds to me like a class struggle where the sunni masses were ill equipped educationally compared to the other sub sects and they did a coup, changed rules to favour them, and to try and exclude the others from jobs and society in general.

Just like they do this to the other minorities, the Hindus, the Christians and the Sikhs. Usually the blasphemy charges are attempts to grab land or women (Zar, Zameen, Zoru thing) from the minorities. They did the same to the minority muslim sub-sects.

But I wonder if Zia had any immediate motivation too.
(Please please let it be known if some Ahmediya Army man bitch slapped Zia and he took it out on all the ahmediyas in that country :D )
Last edited by Gagan on 10 Jun 2011 10:41, edited 1 time in total.
SSridhar
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by SSridhar »

anmol wrote:Uncle has again saved Pakistan.

Rana has been found guilty on two counts but not guilty in conspiracy count involving Mumbai attacks :evil:
Anmol, right at the top of the previous page, see this post please.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by ArmenT »

Raja Bose wrote:^^He fired 2 shots and unlike someone said earlier, the 1st shot went thru his thigh and out the back. After that a 2nd shot was fired. A 7.62 AK round will take out pretty much any flesh, muscle and bone in its path and if the guy had lived he would be crippled for life, probably minus a leg. So like you said, this was not some policeman doing it randomly in rage, this was done in a cold calculated manner with deliberate intent.
The guy looked like he was aiming for the victim's kneecaps. Definite intention to cause slow death or at least cripple the victim for life. Completely agree with gsarkar's assessment, the baki knew what he was doing and seems to have previous experience in doing such things.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by kmkraoind »

Pakistani Army Pleads for Respect :rotfl: :rotfl:
Pakistan's opposition politicians have joined the fray, spurring public disenchantment with the military, for decades the dominant political and economic powerbroker in the country.

The roughly 1,000-word statement—at various points apologetic, belligerent and strident—was the clearest indication to date that in striking a balance between the competing demands, Pakistan's military leaders are looking to first assuage their own people, even if that means scaling back ties to the U.S.

The statement also offered an indication of the crisis now gripping Pakistan's military and the lengths its leaders are potentially willing to go to restore public respect. The statement also said the army would be willing to divert U.S. military aid to help improve the lot of ordinary Pakistanis.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Gagan »

A few observations on that shooting incident in Karachi.
1. The boy was unarmed. He might have been a criminal, but he posed no threat to the Rangers at that point of time.

The Ranger who shot him is all gung-ho, and rushes at the boy and aims his G3 at the boy's head in the begining of the video. He probably says that he is going to shoot him now.
The boy tries to plead with that ranger, and goes after him trying to fall at his feet, and tries to hold the barrel of his rifle.

Here is a bit of psychology: The boy steps into the gunners personal space. According to the principles of psychology, each human being has a personal space, and they don't welcome outsiders into it, unless they specifically want the outsider inside.

Here the boy gets too close to the gunner, Bad idea!
He touches his weapon, holds it, Bad idea!

Both the gunner, and one of his comrades push the boy away, as people do before they are about to shoot people.

(If you remember how Nathuram Godse shot Gandhiji - he bent to touch Gandhiji's feet, then pushed him away)
Psychological reaction: to try and push away guilt. They want to push away the soon to be victim as far away from them.

So the guy fires two rounds in quick succession? The shooting tells us many things:
1. Predetermined shooting.
2. The gunner it seems tells the boy that he is going to shoot him beforehand.
3. Pakistan's culture, where the gunner didn't have to think of any consequences before firing. It seems there is no training, no discipline, no information of the possible consequences to shooting given out to their forces.

I will compare this with the Indian Parliament attack videos. When the Indian parliament was attacked by these pakistani terrorists, I distinctly heard that the soldiers who had rushed in to take out the terrorists, one of them was saying out loudly that they were 'weapons-free'. The words in hindi were something like, "order mil gaya hai, Fire kar sakte hain" or something to that effect. I think the contextual meaning would have been that they could shoot to kill. That is highly nuanced. Now that is how highly disciplined forces operate.

But going back to the pakistani mayhem.

Remember how these pakistani policemen and army wallahs shoot in the air, celebratory fire, after an encounter. And they have done this time after time, inspite of this being a condemned practice for disciplined uniformed forces. Looks like there is no oversight by superiors - the juniors are a power center in themselves. Why wouldn't they - they have martial genes, have a gun and the spirit of jihad runs in their veins eh! The afsars will balk at trying to change their ways.

Again going back to the shooting in Karachi.
The guy shoots the boy, the boy is in shock at getting shot!
He says, "haath se bacha liya""bacha liya" (I saved myself with my hand, saved myself). He is still in shock and can't believe that he has been shot. The fact that he is going to die has still not registered, it probably comes later when he is lying on the ground.
Now the police-walas are also in shock at what happened.

Again no training what so ever of what to do.

Their senior official should have done two things - disarmed the shooter, and arranged for first aid, transfer to a hospital. The phuckers who bear arms also need to know first aid. No pleasure without responsibility-My motto.

Nothing! they do nothing, except twiddle their thumbs and their brains up their musharrafs. If everyone remembers how Mumtaz Qadri shot Salman Taseer, he emptied his magazine into ST at point blank range, because of the recoil of the '47, he could land only about a third of the rounds on target. But his fellow security men sat there twiddling their thumbs. And qadri had the time to lay down his weapon, kneel down and raise his hands in the air, before any of his comrades took their brains out of their musharrafs and even made a move towards him. I am 400% sure that they moved only when they saw that Qadri had given up his weapon, because otherwise he would have shot them too in jest, and if you are in pakistan, with no healthcare in that country, you do not want to get shot.

So the Rangers flit about unsure of what to do next, because there is no training, trying to look important. Waiting for an ambulance to arrive - provided someone had the sense to call up a local hospital, and the hospital picked up the phone. Usually in pakistan getting shot means that the ambulance will arrive to take away the dead body, just as the police arrives well after the robbers have decamped at leisure.

The boy was losing blood at a very rapid pace, and was clearly fainting as blood drained out of his body. By the time the video ends, there is a nice pool of blood around him.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Gagan »

RajeshA wrote:
Nandu wrote:Altaf Hussain says Pak has gangrene and AIDS and needs to cut off some "organs".


http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2011_pg1_6
Altaf Hussain does not want any more Pushtuns to be migrating to his fiefdom Karachi, so at least he would be one non-Pushtun Pakistani politician who would favor an independent Pushtunistan. He needs to be brought over to the idea of partitioning Pakistan and be encouraged to contribute to it.
Altaf Bhai has articulated this several times.
At a recent India Today? conclave in New Delhi he was asking India to intervene and liberate. There is a youtube video of this.

The threat of secession is one of the bargaining chips that the MQM has with the Punjabis.

Now the pashtoons are armed and present in great numbers in karachi, because ofcourse the punjabis won't allow them into punjab. So they have nowhere else to go other than Karachi.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by g.sarkar »

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/10/world ... ana&st=cse
Split Verdicts for Man Accused of Terrorism
By EMMA G. FITZSIMMONS and GINGER THOMPSON
Published: June 9, 2011
"CHICAGO — A federal jury on Thursday found a Chicago businessman guilty of supporting plans to attack a Danish newspaper that published cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, but acquitted him of the more serious charge of helping to plot the 2008 terrorist attacks in Mumbai, India.
After two days of deliberations, the jury also found the businessman, Tahawwur Rana, 49, guilty of a third charge, which involved providing support to the Pakistani militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba.

“The message should be clear to all those who help terrorists,” United States Attorney Patrick J. Fitzgerald said in a statement. “We will bring to justice all those who seek to facilitate violence.”

The mixed verdict deals a blow both to Mr. Rana, who faces a possible sentence of 30 years in prison, and the government, which expressed disappointment at the jury’s decision involving the Mumbai charge. Prosecutors had built their case largely on the testimony of a Pakistani-American man, David C. Headley, who had confessed to playing a major role in the Mumbai attacks and testified against Mr. Rana to avoid the death penalty and extradition to India."
Disappointing. But Rana is not going home to enjoy life.
Gautam
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Singha »

couple of famous old is gold photos:

they rounded up some poor drug addict off a cemetary near the pakistan police academy that was attacked..maybe he was just a truck driver trying to take a crap in the bushes, given his pyjama is missing!
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/03/ ... 33x423.jpg

here is another photo - the biggest RAA agent caught
http://blog.cleveland.com/world_impact/ ... istan3.jpg

and here they are G3 firing to celebrate
http://media.economist.com/images/na/20 ... ce_Top.jpg

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2009/941/int02.jpg

and these are elite anti terrorist squad wearing american supplied helmets and BPJs....

:rotfl:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Raghavendra »

anupmisra wrote:From the nutty land, here's a new one (it seems tha pakis have found their new alter egos in them eyerainians): US drones using 'deadly chemical materials'
"Since the missiles launched by the US drones contain dangerous chemical substances, a large number of the injured people in these attacks cannot be declared as dead or alive since they have been afflicted with complicated diseases due to the deadly chemical materials used in the missiles," a Pakistani physician, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, told FNA.
Zombies!!!!! :mrgreen:

Kufr america turning purelanders into zombies, great conspiracy
Gagan
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 20

Post by Gagan »

Here is the video I was talking about.

Altaf Hussain in New Delhi calls the division of India a blunder
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUNQgXtl36M


And he calls on GoI, the human rights organizations in India to give shelter to the Mohajirs if the Pakistani establishment taunts the mohajirs about partition (or calls them Mohajirs and relegates them to 2nd rung status).

The threat of secession has been an old bargaining chip that the MQM has utilized against the Punjabis. They feel emboldened by what the Bengalis did in '71. Bangladesh is far more progressive than Pakistan is.

Point to be noted, several observers in Pakistan has commented that the MQM, the mohajirs are supposed to me much more secular than the rest of Pakistan. They supposedly don't go after the Christians, the Hindus, the Sikhs, the Shia or the Ahmediya muslims ,unlike in Punjab where the sunnis want to kill everyone who is not sunni and then the wahabis want to kill the sufis and all non-wahabis.
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