The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

[kmkraoind]

Was ex-CJI Balakrishnan a fixer? Ex-judge says he was approached

If it is true, the case to bring higher judiciary under Lokpal will become strong.

[abhischekcc]

Path report out: Was Nigamanand poisoned?

Swami Nigamanand's pathology report says that he he died of insecticide which was administered to him during the duration of his stay at the government hospital.

The pathology report shows high levels of toxins in the blood and indicates organophosphate insecticide posisoning.

The fate of a non-violent satyagrahi.

I suspect that Swami Ramdev may also have been poisoned. Otherwise a physically fit person like him could not have health collapse after only 9 days of fasting. He should get a toxicology examination done immediately.

[Arjun]

KLN, Appreciate your highly informative and well articulated post that compares the US and Indian approaches to separation of powers and 'checks and balances'.

Some takeaways that I think are relevant...

But since the AG is appointed by the President (though he has to be confirmed by the senate, so president has to be careful about bringing in someone who is a complete toady)

We might want to think of a model where the Lokpal is proposed by a committee and confirmed after debate by Parliament.

What we see here is a culture of professionals that have an expectation of independence, along with a legal framework that supports that independence.

Lokpal may still be a good concept if some more emphasis were to go into the idea of keeping the department completely firewalled and independant from the executive. We could even look at the Lokpal taking something like a Hippocratic oath - only it would be a special Lokpal constitution that focuses on maintaining an independent, completely unbiased and objective attitude to their work. Of course - just swearing by something does not guarantee any result - but it might go some way to inculcating a culture of independence in the entire Lokpal team.

Another widely used tool is the perjury law--lying to a law official. A lot of the time, things like interference or subversion are hard to prove, there is usually no paper or email trail. But a guilty person has to lie to protect himself, and usually a lie involves multiple individuals and therefore the liar is vulnerable to being caught in a lie. Many corrupt people end up in prison for lying during the investigation, even though there is not enough evidence for the actual corruption.

Good point. Perjury at least to the Lokpal committee should become grounds for a conviction.

In this aspect, Indian administration's model of full-career civil service officers is a detriment to exercise of independent judgment, compared with the US model where many civil servants especially in legal arena are there only for part of their career, and at the state level in many cases legal officials such as prosecutors and judges may have to go through election as well (varies from state to state). The election process is also a check, since it is an opportunity for the opponents to expose the official to close scrutiny.

The number of US states where election of judges and prosecutors is required is increasing. We need to be thinking of something similar in the case of Lokpal / Indian judiciary.

[somnath]

The Americans were able to get what they want. As I said, you can beg/borrow/steal

And what did they "want"? Specific cases of identified people, with identified bank acounts in an identified bank (UBS)- they specified those, provided evidence and asked the Swiss for the details in those acounts...Even then, it took all the might of the US govt (UBS derives half its global income from the US) to force the issue...

Till now, FINMA (the swiss regulator) has transferred details of 285 of the accounts..And a Swiss court has ruled that the trasnfer of data was illegal!

So to talk of blanket enmasse nationalisation, data disclusore, repatriation etc is nothing but naivete at best, sloganeering at worst...

The German case, I mentioned before, was a lucky break when a disgruntled ex-employee with access to info wanted to sell it to the highest bidder...And taking LGT as a sample, it was alleged even then that Indians have hundreds of billions in that bank - it turns out that confirmed acounts there is only 18, totalling up to 40 crores...

The "moral" argument unfortunately does not hold..In a free egaliatarian society, privacy of the individual and presumption of innocence are fundamental...No govt can peremptorily ask for all information about everyone in a bank, assuming all of them to be guilty of crime...There is nothing "moral" about that...

This is wrong. Such assets have come down to below USD 10t in the recent past, but earlier they were clearly north of USD 10t level

Can you reference a report on that? Not that it changes the essential absurdity of the number, but I havent seen any report that estimates offshore assets of pvt banks to be >10 trillion...

Also, one has to ask - did these private banks declare all of their assets, and how do they define "offshore assets"? The answer would help determine whether the assets have been valued/estimated/added properly

If these are "banks", they are regulated - they have to disclose all assets to their regulator(s)..Those banks that are listed need to dislose the same to the public..."Offshore asset" definition is pretty simple - assets held by clients outside the geogrpahy of their residence are offshore...

Not all bank are listed, so all the data isnt public, but there are reliable industry research outfits that estimate these things on a regular basis...

[abhischekcc]

I sourced numbers from Euromoney report 2010.

[Dhiman]

??You think that when RBI needs to pay its staff salaries at the end of each month, it simply asks the printing press @ Mint street to crank up production by a few crores?! The costs of maintaining RBI comes from the same source that all statutory bodies/PSUs are funded - GOI...

Don't worry too much about it. Perhaps the only important point with that is to remember that salaries are not coming from exporting oil to Saudi Arabia, tax revenue, or from digging gold out of earth. A significant portion of salaries as with other GoI expenditure comes out of GoI spending beyond it's means. Otherwise, there is no significance point to that comment.

I would be very interested in seeing any reference made by a constitutional authority that the govt is blackmailing it with funding strings....

From http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/no-go ... ourt-84917:

New Delhi: The Supreme Court today said that no government wants a strong judiciary.

These observations came during the hearing of the Amar Singh phone-tapping case.

Discussing the delays in disposing cases in the lower courts, the bench observed, "No government wants strong judiciary. Look at the allotment made to judiciary in the budget which is less than one percent. "

Stressing on the need for more courts and manpower, the Court said, " There is less manpower. There are committees and committees. At some point of time we may have to issue directions"

The Supreme Court has asked the Additional Solicitor General, Mohan Parasaran, to inform it of steps taken by the Government on this issue.

Anyways, substantively, the point on "extra protection" to PM is valid, not least because the like sof Soli S and Fali N are raising it...Its not about "dropping names", but taking experience from people who have it...Few people would know the pitfalls of the legal system and the room for vested interest peddling more than them...

I don't mean to press this any further than needed, but again, if your only reasoning for stating that PM should have "special" status if because so-and-so thinks so, then you are on pretty weak ground. I have provided you with solid reasons why PM should not have special treatment: 1) PM already has an army of lawyers to protect him, the common man doesn't, 2) Bofors as an historical example, 3) PM automatically gets certain protections just by being a citizen of the country when due LokPal process is followed.

The era where rulers are given a higher legal status is over and anyone wishing for this is on the wrong side of history. A ruler is no less and no more expendable than the common man.

And if the option is between having the PM in and not having him in the ambit at all - I would rather go midway and build in an extra layer of protection in order to get the acquiescnece of the naysayers...Normal give-and-take in any negotiations...Not sure how it is materially damaging...

This is just your POV. Certainly your are entitled to it without any basis if you so choose, but that does not qualify as a reason or requirement for PM having a "special" status.

About pressure being brought on te Lokpal, well that is precisely why it is sought to be set up as an independent, preferably Constitutional authority - to ringfence it out of executive pressures...Thats the basic idea!

Looks good on paper, the rest as they say will become clear with time.

[harbans]

What you are saying is people are not angry enough at the politics and corruption

Swamy Ji, indeed people are angry. But what better means to remove corruption than reformation of tax structures as mentioned, regulatory mechanisms that prevent Ministers from 'doing as they wish'. It should be lack of these necessary reforms that should be highlighted by people in Public life who want to better things. Lets go back to one example Somnath Ji gave earlier that of Haji Mastan type mafia's and the Gold smuggling racket. All who lived 70's and 80's know how much the country sweated on that corruption racket. Movies were made, calls for more nationalization. Shouting hoarse about getting racketeers monies from offshore banks didn't help. How was the problem solved? By a simple sensible reform. The solution was much simpler than most people thought at that time. Similarly much of the disgusting events we are witnessing, can be solved by some policy changes. By actually being fundamentally against reforms and necessary regulatory changes, many crusaders against 'corruption' are perhaps unknowingly perpetuating corruption.

This should not be about revenge, getting even, hangings or floggings. This is a systemic fault due to lack of reform etc.

[Sanku]

This should not be about revenge, getting even, hangings or floggings. This is a systemic fault due to lack of reform etc.

It is indeed about structural reforms, the rest of the talk is being highlighted to merely deflect attention from specific reform topics.

[somnath]

By actually being fundamentally against reforms and necessary regulatory changes, many crusaders against 'corruption' are perhaps unknowingly perpetuating corruption

ACtually, some of these guys are pressing the right "factual" buttons, but arriving at a counter-factual conclusion..Maybe its a generation thing...

Consider the telecom case, and do a thought experiment...Say the sector hadnt been opened up to private participation in 1994, and was still 100% in govt hands...What would have happened? A few things, very few positive, and a lot more negative...On the positive side, there would not have been any opportunity for corruption in spectrum allocation, one hand of the govt cannot "charge" rents to another hand..But the cons would have been many - telco numbers would have perhap been 150 miollion, not 800...Call rates would have remained @ 20 rupees/min...Corruption would still have been there - but on a smaller scale, on equipment contracts given out to manufacturers, outside-quota allocation of phones and the like..

People like Prashant Bhushan take the last element and compare it with what is happening on the "private market" today, and think "wow, things have gotten so much worse due to the market"! What they dont realise is that people are not willing to give up on the benefits of private markets at all - lower call rates, free availability et al...So there is little support for rolling the clock back..People are looking to make the current regime fairer and less discretionary....

A significant portion of salaries as with other GoI expenditure comes out of GoI spending beyond it's means. Otherwise, there is no significance point to that comment

You started off by implying thar RBI is "independent" because it can print its own money..Now you are commenting on GOI's fiscal performance - how is it linked to the issue at hand?

From http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/no-go ... ourt-84917:

Its a general comment from an arm of the "government" complaining about lack of funding...How is that tantamounting to the govt using funding as a bargaining tool with the juduciary on specific cases? In the case of Lokpal, as I have already pointed out, the level of autonomy to define its infrastructure and mandate is quite amazing...By statute the govt has no option but to sign a cheque demanded by the Lokpal...

if your only reasoning for stating that PM should have "special" status if because so-and-so thinks so, then you are on pretty weak ground

Its not about "so and so", but what those "so and so" are saying...Anyways, it is a POV, and you are entitled to one..I would be ok to compromise just a little bit on this and move on...

[Arjun]

Corruption arises because of the discretionary powers the government has in making laws that can affect business; and in allocating public resources to businesses. It also arises due to its discretionary power as a buyer of goods and services offered by many businesses.

A policy measure that can directly reduce corruption is to decrease the number of areas where the government has discretionary powers - or make all grants of resources based on completely objective and transparent criteria.

[harbans]

Consider the telecom case, and do a thought experiment...Say the sector hadnt been opened up to private participation in 1994, and was still 100% in govt hands...What would have happened? A few things, very few positive, and a lot more negative...On the positive side, there would not have been any opportunity for corruption in spectrum allocation, one hand of the govt cannot "charge" rents to another hand..But the cons would have been many - telco numbers would have perhap been 150 miollion, not 800...Call rates would have remained @ 20 rupees/min...Corruption would still have been there - but on a smaller scale, on equipment contracts given out to manufacturers, outside-quota allocation of phones and the like..

People like Prashant Bhushan take the last element and compare it with what is happening on the "private market" today, and think "wow, things have gotten so much worse due to the market"! What they dont realise is that people are not willing to give up on the benefits of private markets at all - lower call rates, free availability et al...So there is little support for rolling the clock back..People are looking to make the current regime fairer and less discretionary....

Good post and example Somnath Ji. You've illustrated the issue quite well here.

[harbans]

Corruption arises because of the discretionary powers the government has in making laws that can affect business; and in allocating public resources to businesses. It also arises due to its discretionary power as a buyer of goods and services offered by many businesses.

A policy measure that can directly reduce corruption is to decrease the number of areas where the government has discretionary powers - or make all grants of resources based on completely objective and transparent criteria.

Absolutely Arjun ji. These are real issues pending to be tackled and can be done with some will and push.

[somnath]

A policy measure that can directly reduce corruption is to decrease the number of areas where the government has discretionary powers - or make all grants of resources based on completely objective and transparent criteria

As a general rule, residuary powers with the govt are bad, and need whittling down...Unfortunately, in many areas, especially in natural resources, those powers need to be exercised by someone...Mechanical rules cannot keep pace with technology and demand and sheer structure of the marketplace...The solution is to set up independent regulators for all major sectors...Which is where the real solution lies (for corruption)..

[harbans]

The solution is to set up independent regulators for all major sectors

Can you give a simple description or example of how it would work out? Also how would you define 'residuary' powers. Want to be clearer on that.

[Sanku]

A policy measure that can directly reduce corruption is to decrease the number of areas where the government has discretionary powers - or make all grants of resources based on completely objective and transparent criteria.

It is not a "or" case (the argument by some worthies is to deliberately make it a or case and the false argument is sometimes bought) -- to remove corruption both the discretionary powers of govt have to be checked in by transparency and accountability as well as reduction of overwhelming power.

However we also need mechanisms to make sure that the powerful are punished when they misuse their powers.

[somnath]

Can you give a simple description or example of how it would work out? Also how would you define 'residuary' powers. Want to be clearer on that.

"Residuary" powers are typically broad discretionary powers with the govt...Take telecom...There are a bunch of laws that define the functioning of the sector, starting from the Indian Telegraph Act, 1885 (!), to multiple amendments of the same (latest in 2008) - you can get the detaisl on the ministry website..Within the various legislations, there are discretionary powers given to various people, the regulator (TRAI) and the govt to define policies...In telecom, the discretionary powers to the govt unfortunately are supreme, and the regulator is quite emasculated (part fo the problem is the TRAI Act itslef)...

Including powers to set spectrum allocation methodologies..It is this discretionary power that Raja used to change the rules of the game and engendered the 2G auction scam...

Taking the example of a "better" managed sector, in banking, allotment of branch licenses is not with the govt, but with the regulator, RBI...Govt has no say in assignment of licenses - the "residuary power" in this case is with the regulator...RBI has a fairly transparent prcess of application, and allots on criteria laid down...The criteria are discriminatory - so private sector Indian and PSU banks get preference over foreign banks, foreign banks have a cap every year - but those are known and transparent...Ergo, we have never seen an allegation of nepotism in allotment of licenses...

the way to go is to set up strong, independent regulators, with clearly defined business boundaries between them and the ministry...the job of the govt is to lay down broad policy guidelines - (say for telecom) so how much foreign investment is allowed (in % terms), what is the total spectrum that can be allocated for the industry, what is the policy on rural telephony obligations and the like...It can and should take the industry's and regulator's inputs for these...But day-to-day regulation, including auction processes, prefernce to certain types of operators et al need to be with the regulator, completely..

[harbans]

Thanks Somnath Ji. Seems reasonable really but one small query:

RBI...Govt has no say in assignment of licenses - the "residuary power" in this case is with the regulator...RBI has a fairly transparent prcess of application, and allots on criteria laid down.

Does the RBI lay out it's own criteria and specifics or does the Finance Ministry or some Executive act lay down how the allocation in this case happens?

[chaanakya]

"Residuary" powers are different from "discretionary" powers.
Discretionary powers are where an authority is delegated with powers to decide according to ones own wisdom or discretion.
These are defined under some act, rules or delegated legislation.
Simple example of discretionary powers would be appointment of "Attorney General" ( constitutional discretion). Allotment of plots or land or quarters or petrol pumps under discretionary quota procedural rule would be example of administrative powers under some rules.

Residuary powers are those powers which are not defined anywhere or are new and emerging field of activity. The constitution ( as in case of India and other countries which follows constitutionalism) defines which branch of Govt would get such powers : i.e. Executive, Judiciary or legislative. In India such powers are vested with Parliament. Once Parliament passes some laws in the newly emerged area , it would also define where the discretion is vested.

Generally , residuary powers keep getting reduced automatically as new legislation are passed responding to new situation.Mobile telephony is one such example. Space is another.

Corruption is mainly caused by discretionary powers which can be limited but can not be altogether avoided without causing issues in state functioning.

[somnath]

"Residuary" powers are different from "discretionary" powers.

Technically, that is right..Practically however, most issues arise out of overlaps, or more specifically, the appropriation of emerging residuary powers into executive discretionary domain...

Telecom is a perfect example of that...Technology and markets changed so quickly that none of the legislations could keep pace with it, including the TRAI Act of 1997...For example, the issue of CDMA to GSM wasnt something envisaged originally (they thought the lines are clear cut and distinct, before RCOM presented them with a fait accompli) - it was "residuary" in nature, but in absence of any guidelines in the Act, Pramod Mahajan took it upon his discretion to change the rules...

In many cases, in the course of give-and-take in the formulation of an Act, definitions are omitted or kept vague, leading to almost immediate emergence of residuary powers, which are in nearly all cases appropriated by the executive as disccretionary...So the lines are quite blurred, especially in the "economic" areas...

This is true across all economic areas that require the govt to "allocate" a scarce natural (or a finite) resource...The way it is handled best is if broad powers are given to the regulator to "govern" the sector...Basically leaving residuary/discretioanry powers in the hands of the regulator who is "independent" of political interference...

Does the RBI lay out it's own criteria and specifics or does the Finance Ministry or some Executive act lay down how the allocation in this case happens?

Its a good question to elaborate the above point...# of branch licenses and criteria are not defined in the legislation...Its a residuary power in that sense...RBI sets out its own criteria for branch licenses...MoF has no say in either defning the criteria or influencing the decision (though they "talk" to each other regularly)...And RBI takes precedence over all residuary/discretionary matters regarding this..For example, GOI made a commitment to WTO of giving a min of 12 branch licenses to foreign banks every year...Now that is overall national policy laid down by the political executive..But whether the number should be 12, 15 or 20, is decided by RBI....Whether the licenses would be spread out across all foreign banks equally, or any one bank will get all 12 in the year - is also decided by RBI...Again a residuary power (its not covered in a legislation), where discretion is exercised by the regulator, not the govt...

Stretching that example to telecom, it should have meant that Raja's role would be restricted to defining the total spectrum available in 2G for the industry, and defining a "floor price" for that spectrum - thats it...Beyond that, how to allocate, to existing players, new players, how the auction should be carried out etc should have been decisions taken by TRAI...

[chaanakya]

^^ you might need to understand the differences in usage of various terminology

constitution
Legislation
Acts
Subordinate legislation
delegated legislation
Regulations
Rules
Executive orders

Also though I don't like Promod Mahajan but example is unnecessary and not to the point.

[Sanku]

Ahhh..............

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/sonia ... ari-112484

'Sonia fighting corruption is like Pak fighting terror'

Who says politicians don't really understand the real deal.

[somnath]

^^ you might need to understand the differences in usage of various terminology

I am not a lawyer (though I end up spending half my time in office with lawyers!), so sometimes I might be getting some of terminologies mixed up, though I am reasonably sure about the point on residuary powers...But if something's not making fundamental sense please point it out..

Also though I don't like Promod Mahajan but example is unnecessary and not to the point

??In what way?

[Dhiman]

From http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/no-go ... ourt-84917:

Its a general comment from an arm of the "government" complaining about lack of funding...How is that tantamounting to the govt using funding as a bargaining tool with the juduciary on specific cases? In the case of Lokpal, as I have already pointed out, the level of autonomy to define its infrastructure and mandate is quite amazing...By statute the govt has no option but to sign a cheque demanded by the Lokpal...

Supreme court is saying that the government does not want a strong judiciary plus the possibility of the court issuing directions to government on that and you think this is a "general comment". I am amazed at the level of your unchangeable straight-jacketed thinking and that too without any real basis.

My last comment on this issue with you.

[ramana]

There is a dated Swiss magazine article in German that has pictures of the most notorious/prominent Swiss bank account holders.

Rajiv Gandhi's innocent face is there along with Idi Amin and Shah of Iran.

[harbans]

Ramana Ji the pic is here:

http://greathindu.com/2011/06/here-is-p ... ve-to-say/

And here:

http://www.schweizer-illustrierte.ch/ze ... ule-tricks

Somnath Ji, thanks for the info.

[chaanakya]

^^ you might need to understand the differences in usage of various terminology

I am not a lawyer (though I end up spending half my time in office with lawyers!), so sometimes I might be getting some of terminologies mixed up, though I am reasonably sure about the point on residuary powers...But if something's not making fundamental sense please point it out..

Also though I don't like Promod Mahajan but example is unnecessary and not to the point

??In what way?

If a question arises on something not yet legislated ( residual issues) Govt would bring out Legislation or the Act. If it is urgent then there would be ordinance preceding a proper legislation, though it might be allowed to lapse. Discretionary powers always arise within the context of a legislation.It is surely mixed up when you give practical example.

As for telecom issue, when Govt came up with TRAI Act it intended to regulate telecom sector. A legislation is technology neutral. Now Govt could have come up with subordinate legislation or TRAI with regulation or rules depending on requirement ( further legislation or procedural aspect or framing rules pursuant to the objectives laid out in the Act).
There is neither residuary issue nor discretion involved, but further policy framing within the main Act regulation to regulate aspects of Telecom for which main Act already exists. That should or would have been done by the Department if it is a policy matter by the Executive branch or by TRAI if regulation is concerned. Hence your example would not help one to understand the differences in these two concepts and hence the mix up.

[VikramS]

somnath: A truly motivated government can get what it wants, even if it requires use of some Paqui tactics.

[Pranay]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... ttarget=no

The government on Wednesday created an email id for public to send their ideas and inputs to tackle issues arising out of black money.

The email - [email protected] - has been created on the server of the National Informatics Centre and the public can send their responses on the subject with immediate effect, a senior finance ministry officer said.

"General public can send in their responses and inputs like imposing penalties and making penal provisions to tackle with the issue," the officer said.

Belatedly, a dim light went on somewhere... May the people of India speak their mind. I wonder if this feeble government initiative will be open to public perusal, on the specifics of the response that it generates, like the Jan Lokpal Panel has done with their initiative.

[vijayk]

http://www.gulte.com/index.php?andhra-p ... &link=9813

Krishna Godavari basin Scam bigger than 2G Spectrum

Involved parties are all CON MAFIA leaders... The loot goes to the Italian Queen

[vijayk]

^^ You know what! This makes sense. That loot is directly going from Reliance to Sonia. No wonder why YSR tried to stop it as he wanted a cut in it. He asked for more money and threatened Reliance.

BOOM! He was accidented by SCUM SONIA...

[ramana]

vijayK, It goes back to CBN trying to put a levy on the gas as its off shore find. So Ambanis worked for getting him out in 2004. And they jury rigged the UPA by going to Mulayam Singh yadav and made him agree to support UPA. Later they split and made more money by bubbling Reliance.

[somnath]

http://www.gulte.com/index.php?andhra-p ... &link=9813

Krishna Godavari basin Scam bigger than 2G Spectrum

Involved parties are all CON MAFIA leaders... The loot goes to the Italian Queen

This was a "policy scam" in the offing for some time...Pretty similar to the 2G story, the entire narrative of KG-D6 has a checquered history throughout..And a "scam alarm" was always round the corner, not just on the investment leg (covered in the CAG report), but also in the selling leg..

Yet another case of bad policy leading to inevitable results..

[devesh]

^^^
Somnath,
you are deliberately understating wanton greed and purposeful actions of loot, as nothing more than "bad policy." I understand you are an INC pamphleteer. but still, have some self respect. you are blatantly misrepresenting greed and loot as "bad policy." there is no policy which states GoI must do these things. it is deliberately doing them. are you saying that these things are legal "policy?" it makes absolutely no sense to call these actions a "policy." b/c it's not a policy. it's illegal. if it was a policy, it wouldn't be illegal.

[somnath]

you are deliberately understating wanton greed and purposeful actions of loot, as nothing more than "bad policy." I understand you are an INC pamphleteer. but still, have some self respect. you are blatantly misrepresenting greed and loot as "bad policy."

Obviously the fundamental axiom of public policy-making, ie, bad policies lead to bad outcomes, escapes you despite so many examples having been quoted...Its perhaps easier on the mind to use adjectives like "pamphleteer"..

In any system, individuals are encouraged to go the wrong way when they are shown the opportunity of loopholes in policy...The oil policy framework, the telecom policy framework - these lend themselves to cronyism, and hence inevitably do...

Why is it that "collateral" aspersions are being cast on PC in the telecom scam, or Arun Agarwal casting the same aspersions vis vis mineral rights allocations on him, but no one raises questions on him vis a vis bank licenses? And he was FM for a long time...Figuraratively, there is a LOT more rent seeking money to be made in bank licenses (if someone were to try) than in oil or iron ore...the individual is the same, in the same "capacity", differential results...Reason? Different quality of policy framework...

It is much more interesting (at least to me) to sieve through the inadequacies of policy that leads to loopholes leading to scams...Because if those are there, it doesnt matter who the specific individual is, 9 out of 10 times there will be a problem...It is ideologically agnostic - just look at Pramod Mahajan, look at Yeddyurappa, or Ram Naik - if there is a ddifference in scale to Raja, Deora et al, its only a question of the relative economic praxis of the cases...

Is hamam mein sab nange hain - so whats there to discuss besides periodically showering epithets on all and sundry?

[SwamyG]

Corruption at all levels is primarily a function of policy incentives and disincentives...Innate personal qualities are a contributor, but at a macro level, that exaplanation is a copout...

The solution therefore is to change the policy regimes...Do you here of corruption on "cement quota allocations" anymore? (remember the film "kalyug"?) Because you dont have cement quota regime anymore...Branch licenses are the most vluable commodity in banking..Does anyone here of nepotism in allocation of those? Because RBI is an institution which has built credibility on the process...We need similar institutional and policy changes..

I for one will accept that there is no one silver bullet for fixing corruption, and I welcome all measures tiny or large. However, I would not deem corruption being just related to policies, which you believe in.

Policy or institutional changes will alone solve the problem, because if there is no honest monitoring and correctional systems, all policies will remain only in paper. What is required is reform of humans. There are many who will not commit a crime, even if they know for sure they will not be caught and punished. Why? Because they have a clear drawing of what is right and wrong in their minds. And they do not cross the boundaries not because of policy or institutions. It is this sort of behavior that needs to spread epidemically, breaking the barriers of being an endemic behavior.

[devesh]

you are deliberately understating wanton greed and purposeful actions of loot, as nothing more than "bad policy." I understand you are an INC pamphleteer. but still, have some self respect. you are blatantly misrepresenting greed and loot as "bad policy."

Obviously the fundamental axiom of public policy-making, ie, bad policies lead to bad outcomes, escapes you despite so many examples having been quoted...Its perhaps easier on the mind to use adjectives like "pamphleteer"..

In any system, individuals are encouraged to go the wrong way when they are shown the opportunity of loopholes in policy...The oil policy framework, the telecom policy framework - these lend themselves to cronyism, and hence inevitably do...

Why is it that "collateral" aspersions are being cast on PC in the telecom scam, or Arun Agarwal casting the same aspersions vis vis mineral rights allocations on him, but no one raises questions on him vis a vis bank licenses? And he was FM for a long time...Figuraratively, there is a LOT more rent seeking money to be made in bank licenses (if someone were to try) than in oil or iron ore...the individual is the same, in the same "capacity", differential results...Reason? Different quality of policy framework...

It is much more interesting (at least to me) to sieve through the inadequacies of policy that leads to loopholes leading to scams...Because if those are there, it doesnt matter who the specific individual is, 9 out of 10 times there will be a problem...It is ideologically agnostic - just look at Pramod Mahajan, look at Yeddyurappa, or Ram Naik - if there is a ddifference in scale to Raja, Deora et al, its only a question of the relative economic praxis of the cases...

Is hamam mein sab nange hain - so whats there to discuss besides periodically showering epithets on all and sundry?

you are masking your political views by carefully hiding behind "policy," "framework," etc. your first post in response to the CAG report controversy is to say that it was nothing more than a "bad policy." there is a fundamental greed that is driving UPA's behavior. this greed cannot be solved by any kewl changes to policy. we have a lot of laws and good policies that are only on paper. if the existing laws are implemented, these scams wouldn't occur. instead, we keep hammering for new laws, which once again will become paper tigers. we need to do what PVNR did. he gave real power to EC and other such bodies, which were paper tigers till then. once he set the precedent, it has stayed that way. we need somebody to set the precedent, a few times to begin with, and then it will become the norm. even a slight deviation will lead to questioning.

and Pramod Mahajan's criminal activities are a pale shadow of what UPA has been up to. and Yeddyurappa is nowhere there. not even close. Yeddy is like the little chela who needs to spend a lot of time under apprenticeship to INC before he can take baby steps in the shadow of INC, let alone match INC thirst for loot.

[nikkap]

fight against corruption fate was sealed after the ramlila maidan incident no protest,no real agitation on the streets nothing that gives govt the real strength to impose their will on janlokpal bill.

[VikramS]

somnath:
If I might ask you what attracts you so much to the INC?

And BTW this does not mean that you should like/dis-like BJP.

Come Clean Please.

[sanjeevpunj]

Each Individual who decides to fight against corruption is taking up a challenge that will pursue him/her throught life till the very end.It is a decisive moment for many of us.Unfortunately, where is the will to fight? it is seen so sparingly in a few, and there are thousand black sheep wanting to conceal the few white sheep in their daily "baa baa" that comes in the press. Do we have to listen to everyone in the press, whether they talk sense or not? I decided to quite viewing TV, one of the most distracting inventions. Ironically, I make a living out of creating TV programmes. I rely a lot on original thinking to come to a decision,and BR Forums are an excellent place to start. Now, whatever is the will of the government, it will not change my view. When I was only 19, I took up a stand against corruption, and that doesn't change, ever.One of the first things ever one can do to fight corruption is never bribe a baboo. My first and last time was when in 1978 I bribed a baboo to part witha railway ticket, which I so badly needed, to return home, and it was cold winter at old Delhi Station, and I might have not reached Bangalore if I had not bribed the baboo. After that my conscience has not allowed me every to bribe anyone.I could not amass wealth and become filthy rich, never wanted to be filthy anyway, rich or not rich.I do manage a lifestyle that doesn't save up much for the rainy day though, and I am quite at peace.
The point is "we either give up the fight, or carry on forever"

[Nesoj]

and the groundwork begins .............

Rahul Gandhi has all the qualities for becoming a good PM: Digvijay
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 878050.cms

MMS must be looking around his office, preparing a list of items (fax machine etc) that he would like to take back with him on retirement