Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 2011

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 16 Jun 2011 18:47

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/16/world ... istan.html

This looks like a plant.The entire tone of the article is smelly.

Washington, with its own hard line against Pakistan, had pushed General Kayani into a defensive crouch, along with his troops, and if the general was pushed out, the United States would face a more uncompromising anti-American army chief, the Pakistani said.

A `more uncompromising anti-American army chief`.

What will he do?? Bomb the americans in Afghanistan..
Kayani is doing everything else to undermine the amirkhans already.

Regards

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 16 Jun 2011 18:54

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ ... ml?hpid=z2

Must read.

Kayani “is fighting to survive,” said one U.S. official, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of current sensitivities. “His corps commanders are very strongly anti-U.S. right now, so he has to appease them.”

Outspokenness to top officers is virtually unheard of in the strict Pakistani military hierarchy, and open criticism of Kayani “is something no Pakistani military commander has ever had to face before,” another U.S. official said. “Nobody should underestimate the pressure he’s now under.”

Either true, or US officials trying to save bum chum Asphack? Wondering whether he is actually their chum.

Among them is Maj. Amir Aziz, a doctor in the Pakistani army’s medical corps who lived next to the bin Laden residence in Abbottabad for several years and has not been seen since shortly after the raid by U.S. commandos in early May that killed the terrorist leader.

Officials said Aziz was among several Pakistanis paid to keep track of and photograph those entering and leaving the compound, without being told whom they were looking for.

“Their families don’t have any idea where they have been taken,” said one neighbor in Abbottabad’s Bilal Town subdivision. “Nobody knows what they had done.”

A U.S. official said the CIA tried to get the doctor and other informants out of harm’s way before their arrests, offering to relocate them. But they refused and “thought they would be okay,” the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence matters. A Pakistani military spokesman said reports that an officer had been detained were “totally baseless.”

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 16 Jun 2011 19:15

when it says kiya-nahin is in "a defensive crouch" - is that a reference to baddass gubo?

saip · Post by **saip** » 16 Jun 2011 19:24

This is OT for this thread except that it appeared in a Paki paper and it looks like that Madrassa math is very infectious!

The ride lasts less than two minutes, 121 seconds to be exact and cost over $ 30 million.

http://thenews.com.pk/NewsDetail.aspx?ID=17123

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 16 Jun 2011 19:30

Director sports board Quetta gunned down

IRNA - Police said it was a target attack as Ibrar Hussain was Shia Muslim and extremist elements target them. Scores of Shia Muslims gathered rushed to the hospital and chanted slogans against the sectarian group and the police for failure to curb sectarian attacks.

Shia leaders condemned the attack and said that sectarian elements are to destabilize the country and also creat rift in the ranks of Muslims. They called upon the people to calm and help thwart plots hatched by the sectarian elements.

Banned ‘Lashkar-e-Jhangvi’ usually takes responsibility for attacking and killing of Shia Muslims.

Last week LeJ declared Shias as wajib-ul-qatl.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Jun 2011 19:33

Pak Army chief facing colonels' coup from rabidly anti-American Corp commanders?

Islamabad, June 16 : Pakistan Army chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani is fighting to save his position in the face of seething anger from top generals and junior officers since the May 2 US raid that killed al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, according to Pakistani officials.

General Kayani, who has led the army since 2007, faces such intense discontent over what is seen as his cozy relationship with the United States that a colonels’ coup, while unlikely, was not out of the question, said a well-informed Pakistani who has seen the general in recent weeks, as well as an American military official involved with Pakistan for many years, The New York Times reports.

The Pakistan Army is essentially run by consensus among 11 top commanders, known as the Corps Commanders, and almost all of them, if not all, were demanding that General Kayani get much tougher with the Americans, even edging toward a break, according to Pakistanis who follow the army closely.

Washington, with its own hard line against Pakistan, had pushed General Kayani into a defensive crouch, along with his troops, and if he were pushed out, the United States would face a more uncompromising anti-American army chief, the Pakistani added.

To repair the reputation of the army and to ensure his own survival, General Kayani made an extraordinary tour of more than a dozen garrisons, mess halls and other institutions in the six weeks since the May 2 raid on bin Laden’s hideout in Abbottabad, the report said.

His goal was to rally support among his rank-and-file troops, who are almost uniformly anti-American, according to participants and people briefed on the sessions, the report added.

In response to pressure from his troops, General Kayani had already become a more obstinate partner, standing ever more firm with each high-level American delegation that has visited since the raid to try and rescue the shattered American-Pakistani relationship, Pakistani and American officials said.

As part of his survival mechanism, General Kayani could well order the Americans to stop their drone program completely, said the well-informed Pakistani who met with General Kayani recently.

The Pakistanis have already blocked the supply of food and water to the base used for the drones, a senior American official said, adding that they were gradually “strangling the alliance” by making things difficult for the Americans in Pakistan.

The anger at the Americans was now making it more difficult for General Kayani to motivate the army to fight against the Pakistani Taliban in what is increasingly seen as a fight on behalf of the United States, former Pakistani soldiers said.

“The feeling that they are fighting America’s war against their own people has a negative impact on the fighting efficiency,” said Javed Hussain, a former Special Forces officer in the Pakistani military.

According to the report, discipline has become a worry, as has an open rebellion in the middle ranks of officers, particularly as rumours circulate that some enlisted men have questioned whether General Kayani and Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) chief, Lieutenant General Ahmed Shuja Pasha should remain in their jobs.

--ANI

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jun 2011 19:38

shiv wrote:Some piskological thoughts are bubbling under the surface.

If I were Assphuck Kiyani what would I do?

All these years the stupid Amirkhans were paying good money while Pakistan got arms against India.

After 1998 Pakistan went apeshit with Kargil, Kaluchak, Parliament attack, Mumbai 2002, multiple attack all over India culminating with 26/11/2008. Not culminating exactly - but some extra pressure seems to have appeared from somewhere after 26/11 leading to a serious decrease in terror attacks.

What does Kayani have to do with this? Kayani was the author of 26/11. He arrived with that. Mushy had earlier arrived with Kargil and 9-11 helped him reap benefits when the stupid Americans opened their wallets. But What can Kayani do now?

He is being asked to rein in anti-US forces. But, as I said earlier there is some definite pressure to take terror off the agenda with India. The reason for the latter seems convoluted to me. For many years there has been US pressure on the Pak army to pull out forces from the Indian border. Pakistan refused citing the India threat - but nevertheless the "confidence building" with India (talks?) seems to have caused some troops to move out from the east to west. Perhaps that is why Pakistan is reluctant to restart terror. If India attacks in response to a terror strike Pakistan may not even be able to put up its usual show of resistance because of absent troops (and perhaps loss of Pashtuns from the army). That would also explain the Nasr/Hatf/Cold Start bravado. So Kayani is being faced with the twin pressures of fighting anti-US forces while not allowing anti-India forces to do their thing.

Now if anti Indian forces were different from anti-US forces (as Pakis desire), and the anti Indian forces did not want to hit the US the it would be no problem whatsoever. What a lovely scenario that would be for Pakistan, the US and jihadis. Balls to India. But it appears that it is diffiult to compartmentalise and separate the two.

Why Why would jihadis not see the Paki army viewpoint and understand that the US is needed for aid? The explanation is simple. If you hunt for me in the living room and someone else huts for me in the bedroom, my best bet is to hide in the kitchen - or anywhere but living and bedroom. Pakis an the US are hunting anti-US forces, and the safest place to hide is among the anti-India jihadis. Maybe Pakis even encouraged the Taliban and A Qaeda to hide with LeT. There has been a gradual coalescing of aims of all groups now.

What has this got to do with Assphuck Kiyani? Well he's the guy who has to get Pakis to hit the jihadis in Pakistan. He is in big trouble. There is IMO no way out. No way other than asking all jihadi groups to lie low. But that won;t be good enough. An that puts Kiyani at risk of assassination. {Qadrification?}
How lovely it would be to see an army vs army coup in Pakistan no?

I would start the coup watch right now!!!
Corroborating news from Nightwatch:

Nightwatch 16 June 2011

Pakistan-US: Five Pakistani CIA informants who had provided information leading up to the raid that killed Usama bin Laden have been arrested by Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) Directorate, according to US officials. CIA Director Panetta raised the issue when he traveled to Islamabad earlier in June.

When questioned about the arrests during Congressional testimony on 15 June, Defense Secretary Gates conveyed resignation to having to deal with Pakistan as it is. Promised intelligence cooperation and the creation of a jointly manned intelligence center have stalled.

Comment: Ten years ago Musharraf set the tone and substance of Pakistani policy in cooperating with the US. He decided that Pakistan would cooperate as long as Pakistan benefitted. Under Musharraf the benefits were significant, including a Congressional waiver for Pakistan's violation of US and UN rules against nuclear weapons proliferation, plus F-16 arms sales,$ billions in military and civil aid, not to mention the franchises on US military shipping from Karachi to Afghanistan.

The price of US support for the Pakistan Army that Musharraf had neglected was for him to ignore US drone and other operations in the tribal areas of Pakistan. Thus, Pakistan always was a lukewarm ally at best and never stopped supporting the Taliban

The civilian government of President Zardari and Prime Minister Gilani, that forced Musharraf to leave office or face impeachment, had been the most friendly to the US in decades. The irony is that relations with the US since the killing of bin Laden have become worse than at any time when Musharraf was in office.

A major reason is that the Pakistan Army's senior officers do not trust nor respect civilian control of the Army. In contrast, during his tenure Musharraf remained the most senior and highest ranking officer in the Army and had to be obeyed under pain of court martial.

Musharraf was in the best position to terminate bin Laden and did not. Zardari and Gilani were poorly served and obviously not informed by all whom they considered allies and others who remain constitutionally their subordinates.

As a result, just when US relations with an elected Pakistani government should be flourishing, they are under stress. That stress shows in sharp relief that US and Pakistani security interests are not congruent and are barely compatible.

Musharraf understood this. The Gilani government has learned it the hard way and too late to craft a strategy to save US relations or even itself. The elected government is likely to become collateral damage from bin Laden's death.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Jun 2011 20:18

Taking a leaf out of Teresita Schaffer's piskolgical observations (which go a step beyond my own pisk-obs in my ebook) we can perhaps model Pakis reactions to the US as a spat between two previously friendly biradaris.

One biradari has seriously screwed the echandee of the other.

If weaker biradari screws echandee of stronger biradari - stronger will beat/kill weaker

If both are equal - there will be a fight - or at least animosity

But if the biradari that insults the other is extremely powerful, the maintenance of honor requires that the weaker one (Pakistan) makes a big hue and cry and demand something to restore honor (It won't be money) but should not get into a confrontation. That will add to further loss of honor - which means civil war/coup in Pakistan.

The US has to make some gesture that will make the US appear to genuflect before Pakistan. The only other alternative is to get a middleman ( which is what the Pakis always attempted while negotiating with a weaker India). Teh Saudis may be able to help here - by saying that they will step in and pay Pakistan money while Pakistan gains echandee by "refusing" US ad. US aid will come via Saudi with a wink for the US and a statement of "Bahut sorry ho gaya"

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 16 Jun 2011 20:20

shiv wrote:Taking a leaf out of Teresita Schaffer's piskolgical observations (which go a step beyond my own pisk-obs in my ebook) we can perhaps model Pakis reactions to the US as a spat between two previously friendly biradaris.

They are still friendly biradaris. They have a common understanding for long

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 16 Jun 2011 20:20

Pakistan Navy launches warship

The Pakistan Navy Thursday launched its fourth F-22P Frigate built with Chinese assistance during a ceremony in Karachi.

The warship was built at the Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works (KSEW). The country's three other F-22P Frigates: PNS Zulfiqar, PNS Shamsher and PNS Saif were built in China.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 16 Jun 2011 20:23

Rare bright spots in Pakistan economy

KARACHI - The Pakistan economy, which will miss several of its most important targets set for the fiscal year ending on June 30, has achieved two bright spots in setting records for exports and remittances.

Exports are expected to reach a new high of around US$25 billion in the 12 months to June 30, after increasing 28.2% during the 11 months to May compared with the year earlier period. The 11-month export figure of $22.7 billion passed the full-year target of $21.2 billion.

Annual remittances from Pakistani workers overseas are estimated to have crossed $10 billion for the first time for the past
12 months, up from $8.9 billion in year ending June 2010, with the flow boosted by charity money sent in the wake of last summer's severe floods and a crackdown on illegal transfers.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 16 Jun 2011 20:25

Brad Goodman wrote:Rare bright spots in Pakistan economy
KARACHI - The Pakistan economy, which will miss several of its most important targets set for the fiscal year ending on June 30, has achieved two bright spots in setting records for exports and remittances.

Exports are expected to reach a new high of around US$25 billion in the 12 months to June 30, after increasing 28.2% during the 11 months to May compared with the year earlier period. The 11-month export figure of $22.7 billion passed the full-year target of $21.2 billion.

Annual remittances from Pakistani workers overseas are estimated to have crossed $10 billion for the first time for the past
12 months, up from $8.9 billion in year ending June 2010, with the flow boosted by charity money sent in the wake of last summer's severe floods and a crackdown on illegal transfers.

The first figure might be manupulated, the 2nd FDI in Pakistan

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 16 Jun 2011 20:33

these numbers are smaller than the assets banks hold for regulatory reasons...

vdutta · Post by **vdutta** » 16 Jun 2011 20:39

saip wrote:This is OT for this thread except that it appeared in a Paki paper and it looks like that Madrassa math is very infectious!

The ride lasts less than two minutes, 121 seconds to be exact and cost over $ 30 million.
http://thenews.com.pk/NewsDetail.aspx?ID=17123

your maili kuchali earthly ride lasts only two minutes.
but..... KHUSH ho jao khusho ho jao
ride in jannat will last 100 times more and when you are done with one ride another ride will open its gate for you

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 16 Jun 2011 20:43

Fact of the matter is that upper echelons of TSPA know that the last thing they need is the full wrath of US. Likewise the Paki-pasand Pentagon/CIA and other US strategists cannot let go off the Paki narcotic as a pliant tool in the region to contain India. So I see this BS about Kiyani supposedly fighting for his job against anti-US generals as some kind of a plant in the media. So the Paki-pasand chutiyas can say, see Kiyani is so pro-US onlee, but the beards will overthrow him and all hell will break loose thereafter, so we must strengthen Kiyani's hands, lets give him nuke deal, lets lean on the Indians to give him Kashmir etc.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 16 Jun 2011 21:01

vdutta - technically the new ride will yank you off the old ride to get on the new one...

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 16 Jun 2011 21:32

CRamS wrote:Fact of the matter is that upper echelons of TSPA know that the last thing they need is the full wrath of US. Likewise the Paki-pasand Pentagon/CIA and other US strategists cannot let go off the Paki narcotic as a pliant tool in the region to contain India. So I see this BS about Kiyani supposedly fighting for his job against anti-US generals as some kind of a plant in the media. So the Paki-pasand chutiyas can say, see Kiyani is so pro-US onlee, but the beards will overthrow him and all hell will break loose thereafter, so we must strengthen Kiyani's hands, lets give him nuke deal, lets lean on the Indians to give him Kashmir etc.

yeah MMS will offer kashmir in a plate to the Pakistanis..

The PMO is a joke.Con-gress is on a downward slope and everybody knows it. They are never gonna make next elections. Kashmir is an integral and inalienable part of India. It cannot be severed by a gang of dimwits and cronies. This is not a nuclear deal which can be passed off. Please stop posting your paranoid delusions about US and its influence on India regarding Kashmir. There is nothing US can do regarding Kashmir except to watch and wonder.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 16 Jun 2011 22:25

Altair wrote:yeah MMS will offer kashmir in a plate to the Pakistanis.. The PMO is a joke.Con-gress is on a downward slope and everybody knows it. They are never gonna make next elections. Kashmir is an integral and inalienable part of India. It cannot be severed by a gang of dimwits and cronies. This is not a nuclear deal which can be passed off. Please stop posting your paranoid delusions about US and its influence on India regarding Kashmir. There is nothing US can do regarding Kashmir except to watch and wonder.

Paranoid delusions? Give me a break. US can create immense trouble for India in a hearbeat over Kashmir. Look at what they have done for 60+ years. Right now they are trying the benign approach: you are on the threshlod of becoming a global superpower of the 21st century but for Kashmir. Do you forget MMS/Mush deal on Kashmir? US strategy is to wean away Kashmir from India through sweet talk and inducements. We on BR should be vigilant of all these game plans, not be dismissive. Nothing paranoid or delusional about it. Every western rag talks about Kashmir as the solution to TSP terrorism. CIA big wigs like Riedel does the same and that too after so much perfidy of TSP has come to light post OBL. And to rub salt to India's wounds we have MMS, Sonia, and their Dog'sVagina have set aside Mumbai and are obsessed with so called "Hindu terrorism". All these events don't trouble you?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jun 2011 22:27

Shiv, Recall right after 9/11 Jaswant Singh offered military support to US in the War on Terror and that was spurned in favor of mollycoddling TSP? Well it might have to happen again if there is a coup in TSP.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 16 Jun 2011 22:44

CRamS wrote: So I see this BS about Kiyani supposedly fighting for his job against anti-US generals as some kind of a plant in the media. So the Paki-pasand chutiyas can say, see Kiyani is so pro-US onlee, but the beards will overthrow him and all hell will break loose thereafter, so we must strengthen Kiyani's hands, lets give him nuke deal, lets lean on the Indians to give him Kashmir etc.

Absolutely right. Kiyani is now being presented as the Pro-Western, Pliant, Peachy Musharraf willing to offer itself for Western GUBO, but under threat from the bamboos of religious-fanatic corpse commanders. After him, the deluge. It is EXACTLY what we saw with the original Musharraf through the middle of the last decade... don't be surprised if some staged "assassination attempts" vs. Kiyani are used to further push this media angle.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 16 Jun 2011 22:46

ramana wrote:Shiv, Recall right after 9/11 Jaswant Singh offered military support to US in the War on Terror and that was spurned in favor of mollycoddling TSP? Well it might have to happen again if there is a coup in TSP.

Ramana garu, I think it will happen again... if a colonels' coup takes place, India will offer military support to the US again, and India will be spurned again. The bottom line is that the US will work with anyone or anything in power in Islamabad before they countenance the idea of Indian domination in the subcontinent.

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 16 Jun 2011 23:14

The Saudis may be able to help here - by saying that they will step in and pay Pakistan money while Pakistan gains echandee by "refusing" US aid. US aid will come via Saudi with a wink for the US and a statement of "Bahut sorry ho gaya"

Agree 100 %...
But I doubt the US will continue with this naatak for long..The Pakis have very little to offer to the US in return..Unlikely Unkill will pay up for free.
But the Saudis acting as middlemen is brilliant analysis..
Shaastanga Pranaam Shiv saar
You should be made PM
Regards

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jun 2011 23:18

RD, My point exactly. Last time it led to Af-Pak. This time who knows? Maybe Fak-Ap.

RSoami, KSA has limited room now due to "Arab Spring" and need to have India neutral in their run-up with Iran. Arab Spring means they have to spend money on their own people. Right now oil prices are forecast to go lower. Also they have increased production which contributes to lowering prices. So where is the money? And US has its own financial issues.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 16 Jun 2011 23:47

If there is talk of coup in the papers, it is sponsored item. Drama in full swing to extract some benefits from Khan.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 16 Jun 2011 23:49

Not sure if posted earlier:

Published on Jun 15, 2011
By David Martin
U.S.-Pakistan relations "on a collision course": CBS News

Relations with Pakistan have gotten so bad since the raid on bin Laden's compound, the deputy director of the CIA told a closed door hearing on Capitol Hill it's a 3 on a scale of 10. According to Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, relations are close to the breaking point.

"We're at a crossroads with Pakistan. We're on a collision course with Pakistan," Graham said.

While the U.S. wants Pakistan to go after the support network which allowed bin Laden to hide in plain sight, Pakistan instead has arrested and interrogated 5 people suspected of helping the CIA pull off the raid.

It is all part of a spy versus spy game the U.S. plays with one of its most important allies, and Defense Secretary Robert Gates told Democratic Senator Patrick Leahy to get used to it.

"Based on 27 years in CIA and four and a half years in this job, most governments lie to each other. That's the way business gets done," Gates said.

Although CIA drone strikes against terrorist safe havens in Pakistan's border area continue without let up, Pakistani intelligence at the same time actually protects some of the terrorist groups.

The CIA gave Pakistan the location of two compounds where the explosives smuggled across the border to kill American soldiers in Afghanistan are manufactured. Someone in Pakistani intelligence apparently alerted the terrorists who immediately emptied out the compounds.

But for all the double dealing, the chairman of the Pentagon's Joint Chiefs of Staff says the U.S. cannot afford to turn its back on a country that has both terrorists and nuclear weapons on its soil.

"If we walk away from it, it's my view it will be a much more dangerous place a decade from now and we'll be back," Adm. Mike Mullen said.

Right now, Pakistan is pushing the U.S. away. They have kicked out virtually all the Americans who were training their military.

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 16 Jun 2011 23:51

Lekin Ramanna saar
KSA can kill the last arab and the west wont say anything...no spring or winter will apply to KSA.Its only at places where the west is against the arab leadership that changes are taking place...I hope the US stops giving alms to Pakistanis completely but I think there is a lot of weight in Shiv saar`s argument that the two sides(americans) will find some other way of delivering aid..
My only question is if the Pakis have anything left to offer in return with their radicalised society.
And I dont think placid India comes into strategic calculations as far as Iran and KSA are concerned.

Regards

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 16 Jun 2011 23:54

If there is talk of coup in the papers, it is sponsored item. Drama in full swing to extract some benefits from Khan

+1 . Its a plant.
I think the message to Unkill is -Please dont push too hard during GUBO...
Less enjoyable fella might replace the present boy if you do.

Regards

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 16 Jun 2011 23:56

Yesterday, I heard Paki pasand pervert David Ignatius on NPR (Here & Now Program) praising TSP cooperation and in fact saying that any intelligence service will arrest those who work agianst the state. Absolutely amazing how the same event can be used to demonize or sanctify.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 17 Jun 2011 00:02

ramana wrote:Shiv, Recall right after 9/11 Jaswant Singh offered military support to US in the War on Terror and that was spurned in favor of mollycoddling TSP? Well it might have to happen again if there is a coup in TSP.

That was a shocking let down of India and a coup d'tat of sorts for TSP. For that alone, TSPians should be greatful to Mush and US instead of the anti-US sentiment so pervasive in TSP today. Had US accpeted Indian offer, TSP, or at least Pakijabi dominance would have been severly dented, and the history of the region and world would have been different today.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 17 Jun 2011 00:05

KSA needs pak therefore will provide the $ (more than ever), TSPA is edging closer and closer to PRC. Consensus is slowly becoming that USwill replace Pak with Afgh. However the road to Afghanistan goes through TSP for now imo.

Ramana ji, pious autocratic coup in the TSPA? Then re-align back with US?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 17 Jun 2011 00:11

Is the full text (full text only, partial transcripts and highlights abound) of Musharraf's Sept 19, 2001 speech available anywhere?

Why do I want it? - I believe that the current situation the US finds itself in w.r.t. Pakistan fully follows from Musharraf's speech. No one in the US can pretend to be shocked; they can only acknowledge that they ignored the very clear statement of policy by Musharraf in 2001.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 17 Jun 2011 00:54

Pakistan's Inter-Service Intelligence
With transcript
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/InterSer

Panelists talked about Pakistan's Inter-Service Intelligence (ISI) agency and its alleged involvement in several terrorism attacks. Among the topics they addressed were the structure of the agency, its role in government, and the ISI's relationship with U.S. intelligence. They also talked about growing distrust between the U.S. and Pakistan stemming from problems in intelligence sharing, the raid on a compound in Pakistan that killed Osama bin Laden, and ties to a terrorist bombing in Mumbai, India. They also responded to questions from the audience.

The Pak person Shuja Nawaz talks about India and how India is referred for every other thing.
he also says India does not want to take Pak since Pak is 200M angry muslims.

Joseph · Post by **Joseph** » 17 Jun 2011 01:23

A_Gupta wrote:Is the full text (full text only, partial transcripts and highlights abound) of Musharraf's Sept 19, 2001 speech available anywhere?

This is the best that I have found so far...

President General Pervez Musharraf: Address to People of Pakistan

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 17 Jun 2011 01:36

^^^ Tx!

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 17 Jun 2011 01:46

Who says there are no western tourists in pa'astan? Who says there is no western immigration into pa'astan? Think again. Read all about it...The Japanese tourist who joined Pakistani mountain tribe

In 1987 Akiko Wada left her bustling hi-tech metropolis in Japan to go backpacking with friends around the remote mountains of northern Pakistan. But once she discovered the beautiful village of Balanguru and the unique Kalash tribe that lived there, she decided to stay.

The Kalash are not Muslim: they worship their ancestors as well as a pantheon of 12 gods and goddesses.

Friends no longer come either, she says, as they are afraid to visit Pakistan because of the violence.

Akiko also feels the Kalash have been besieged by modernity and Islamic missionaries. During the 1980s, under the regime of Gen Zia-ul-Haq, a wave of Islamisation reportedly saw self-styled "guardians of religion" forcibly converting many minorities including the Kalash.

I think now Kalash are following the Pakistani system and they are not as simple and pure as they used to be."

"There is no difference between them and a Karachi boy. They don't go to the fields and herd sheep any more."

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 17 Jun 2011 01:49

Acharya wrote:Pak is 200M angry muslims.

Angry!? Thats like saying the Nazis were one naughty bunch.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 17 Jun 2011 02:00

Acharya wrote:Pakistan's Inter-Service Intelligence
With transcript
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/InterSer

Panelists talked about Pakistan's Inter-Service Intelligence (ISI) agency and its alleged involvement in several terrorism attacks. Among the topics they addressed were the structure of the agency, its role in government, and the ISI's relationship with U.S. intelligence. They also talked about growing distrust between the U.S. and Pakistan stemming from problems in intelligence sharing, the raid on a compound in Pakistan that killed Osama bin Laden, and ties to a terrorist bombing in Mumbai, India. They also responded to questions from the audience.

The Pak person Shuja Nawaz talks about India and how India is referred for every other thing.
he also says India does not want to take Pak since Pak is 200M angry muslims.

That seems to be a purchase link. Since you watched the show, tell us some highlights. Anything out of the box? Shuja Nawaz is a typical suave TSP RAPE, I've heard him before.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 17 Jun 2011 02:33

CRamS wrote:
That seems to be a purchase link. Since you watched the show, tell us some highlights. Anything out of the box? Shuja Nawaz is a typical suave TSP RAPE, I've heard him before.

Play the video on the right and you can watch the whole program directly.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 17 Jun 2011 03:10

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/26 ... nley-kurtz
Anti-American Coup in Pakistan?

Even now Pakistan’s army is forcing American operations out of the country. They have blocked the supply of food and water to our drone base, and are actively “strangling the alliance” by making things difficult for Americans in-country.Unfortunately, it’s now time to at least begin thinking about what the United States should do in case of either an overt anti-American coup within Pakistan’s army, or in case Kayani himself is forced to effectively break relations. Although liberation from Pakistan’s double-game and reversion to honest hostility might come as a welcome relief to some, I see no good scenario here.Should anti-American elements in Pakistan’s army displace Kayani, they would presumably hold our supply lines to Afghanistan hostage to a cessation of drone attacks. The step beyond that would be to cut off our Afghanistan supply lines altogether. Our minimum response to either of these moves would likely be a suspension of aid (on which Pakistan’s military is now dependent) and moves to provide India with technology that would give them major advantages over Pakistan. Pakistan may run eagerly into the arms of China at that point.These developments would pose many further dangers and questions. Could we find new supply lines, and at what geo-strategic price? Should we strike terrorist refuges in Pakistan, perhaps clashing with Pakistan’s own forces as we do so? Would Pakistan actively join the Taliban to fight us in Afghanistan? In short, would the outcome of a break between America and Pakistan be war–whether low-level or outright?
There is no good or easy answer here. If there is any single spot it would be hardest for America to walk away from conflict, Pakistan is it. Bin Laden was not alone. Pakistan shelters our greatest terrorist enemies. An inability to strike them there would be intolerable, both in terms of the danger posed for terrorism here in the United States, and for the safety of our troops in Afghanistan.

Yet the fundamental problem remains Pakistan’s nuclear capacity, as well as the sympathy of many of its people with our enemies. Successful clashes with Pakistan’s military may only prompt sympathizers to hand nuclear material to al-Qaeda. The army is virtually the only thing holding Pakistan together. A military defeat and splintering of the army could bring an Islamist coup, or at least the fragmentation of the country, and consequent massive expansion of its lawless regions. These gloomy prospects probably explain why our defense officials keep counseling patience, even as the insults from Pakistan grow.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 17 Jun 2011 03:45

Pak says no to discussing ISI issues at FS talks
http://www.rediff.com/news/report/pak-s ... 110616.htm

Pakistan was on Thursday dismissive of India's [ Images ] attempts to raise fresh evidence of Inter Service Intelligence's links to the 26/11 attacks at the upcoming foreign secretary-level talks, stating clearly that the agenda would be limited to three issues: Kashmir, peace and security and friendly exchanges. Pakistan foreign office spokesperson Tehmina Janjua told a weekly news briefing that Islamabad [ Images ] was in communication with New Delhi [ Images ] to firm up dates for Indian Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao's [ Images ] visit to Pakistan later this month for talks with her Pakistani counterpart Salmon Bashir.
Asked if Pakistan would be open to discussing fresh evidence on the Mumbai [ Images ] attacks during the foreign secretary-level talks, Janjua said the agenda for the upcoming meeting "is very clearly the three (issues) that have been indicated" - peace and security, Jammu and Kashmir [ Images ] and friendly exchanges.