Indian Naval Discussion

Avid · Post by **Avid** » 16 Jun 2011 18:32

pragnya wrote:ticky, tsarkar sir, thanks.

i asked because post decommissioning most ships go for scraps.

More recently, post decommissioning -- they take out hazardous materials from the ship and then tow it to a place they want some eco-system rebuilding done (coral reef restoration being one example). The ship is used for target practice and sunk. Thereafter on seabed it provides for skeleton for regrowth.

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 16 Jun 2011 18:34

SaiK wrote:what is the status of ADS?

I also have the same question ... and also how do we manage a ship of that size from the glare of curious onlookers and journos camera? have we built some sort of sanitized area with no access to civilians..?

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 16 Jun 2011 18:36

Avid wrote:
pragnya wrote:ticky, tsarkar sir, thanks.

i asked because post decommissioning most ships go for scraps.
More recently, post decommissioning -- they take out hazardous materials from the ship and then tow it to a place they want some eco-system rebuilding done (coral reef restoration being one example). The ship is used for target practice and sunk. Thereafter on seabed it provides for skeleton for regrowth.

have we ever tested any bhramos using a "live" target..? or is it mostly the nets..? how does the detonation of a warhead married with a missile is tested..in a simulated environment?

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 16 Jun 2011 18:51

Indian Navy provides logistic support for salvage operation of MV Wisdom

Some very good pics in some time

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 16 Jun 2011 19:14

prithvi, check 2:04. watch it all if you can.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 16 Jun 2011 19:23

http://img45.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc ... 89_SER.jpg#

This was without warhead to test impact characteristics. Using a warhead would have blown it to oblivion without any opportunity to study effects.

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 16 Jun 2011 20:01

I saw that precise frame at Aero India this year. It was a bit fortuitous because I was just leaving that hangar.

The screen was near one of the exits.

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 16 Jun 2011 20:39

Does India have the capability to increase the range of Brahmos or is India restricted by the Russians from doing so? Russia doesn't want to violate MTCR.

John · Post by **John** » 16 Jun 2011 21:54

Hitesh wrote:Does India have the capability to increase the range of Brahmos or is India restricted by the Russians from doing so? Russia doesn't want to violate MTCR.

Restricted by MTCR but range can be increased but i would guess no more than 500 km which is max range quoted for Oniks.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 16 Jun 2011 22:07

prithvi wrote:
SaiK wrote:what is the status of ADS?
I also have the same question ... and also how do we manage a ship of that size from the glare of curious onlookers and journos camera? have we built some sort of sanitized area with no access to civilians..?

I'm afraid i got a good, long hard look at the IAC-1 (although from a distance) when I was in Cochin last October. And i didn't even have to leave my hotel

Added later: Oh and BTW, it looked *at least* a year away from sea trials with the amount pending metal work i could make out from that distance.

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 16 Jun 2011 22:20

Dmurphy wrote:
prithvi wrote:
I also have the same question ... and also how do we manage a ship of that size from the glare of curious onlookers and journos camera? have we built some sort of sanitized area with no access to civilians..?
I'm afraid i got a good, long hard look at the IAC-1 (although from a distance) when I was in Cochin last October. And i didn't even have to leave my hotel

Added later: Oh and BTW, it looked *at least* a year away from sea trials with the amount pending metal work i could make out from that distance.

for sea trials ..completition of basic constructions is not enough... it is the completion of whole system integration... my curiousity is when will it be launched..? ..

also what stopped you or anyone from taking a snap..? or are you also fooled by Bikrant... which was going through some re-fits in Coaching last year ...

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 16 Jun 2011 22:28

Dmurphy wrote:
I also have the same question ... and also how do we manage a ship of that size from the glare of curious onlookers and journos camera? have we built some sort of sanitized area with no access to civilians..?

I'm afraid i got a good, long hard look at the IAC-1 (although from a distance) when I was in Cochin last October. And i didn't even have to leave my hotel

Added later: Oh and BTW, it looked *at least* a year away from sea trials with the amount pending metal work i could make out from that distance.[/quote]

for sea trials ..completition of basic constructions is not enough... it is the completion of whole system integration... my curiousity is when will it be launched..? ..

also what stopped you or anyone from taking a snap..? or are you also fooled by Bikrant... which was going through some re-fits in Coaching last year ...[/quote]

found some pics in TSP thread... .. kindly delete if not permitted....
http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defe ... ard-2.html

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 16 Jun 2011 22:44

Facebook Not Safe to Weigh Anchor : Navy

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 16 Jun 2011 22:49

Juggi G wrote:Facebook Not Safe to Weigh Anchor : Navy

It was waiting to happen.... but will be a maintenance and moderation nightmare ...

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 16 Jun 2011 22:52

Navy Chief to Travel to Moscow Next Month

Navy Chief to Travel to Moscow Next Month
Published : Thursday, Jun 16, 2011
Place : New Delhi | Agency: PTI

In the backdrop of the Russian Navy backing out of a joint exercise with the Indian Navy at the last minute, Navy Chief Admiral Nirmal Verma will travel to Moscow next month for discussions with the country's top military leadership.

The Navy chief will meet the top military leadership of Russia and discuss ongoing military projects such as the Retrofit of Admiral Gorshkov and Construction of the Three Talwar class Frigates there, officials said here.

The two sides are also likely to discuss the last-minute decision by Russian Navy not to hold an exercise with Indian Navy ships, which had gone there for a joint drill, they said.

The navy chief had expressed an "element of disappointment" after the exercises were not held at the final stages.

The navy chief is also likely to discuss the delivery schedule of the Akula Class Nerpa nuclear submarines and the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov.

Under a confidential pact, India is leasing an Akula Class submarine from Russia, which is expected to be delivered by the end of this year.

At present, defence secretary Pradeep Kumar along with defence production secretary Rajkumar Singh are in Russia to discuss the bilateral defence ties.

Officials said there will be a number of visits by senior Indian officials to Russia before the summit-level meeting between the heads of states in December.

brvarsh · Post by **brvarsh** » 16 Jun 2011 22:57

Sorry for a basic question - What will be the difference between Vikramaditya and the Indegenous Aircraft Carrier? Do they both have tentative operational readiness target of 2015?

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 16 Jun 2011 23:10

prithvi wrote:also what stopped you or anyone from taking a snap..? or are you also fooled by Bikrant... which was going through some re-fits in Coaching last year ...

It was the under construction IAC, alright?! FWIW, the hotel terrace had sign posts forbidding people from clicking snaps of the shipyard. But which jingo would listen?

Sorry, this is going OT.

BTW, any word on Nerpa yet? Was it not supposed to be delivered in June?

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 17 Jun 2011 00:48

NO Second Akula-II Class Nuclear-Powered Submarine will be Leased.
Reason : Turned Down by the Indian Navy

Russia Snubs India

Vashishtha · Post by **Vashishtha** » 17 Jun 2011 01:56

What about nerpa? Is this sort of blackmail?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 17 Jun 2011 02:05

It is and another stark reminder of what happens when we rely on foreign suppliers to provide our military equipment. India will NOT acquire the second Akula, if the Russians are playing hard-to-get with the first one. As as a customer, if you cannot deliver on time...why would we come back to face the same music? At this rate, we may not even get the first one and that may be a good thing. It forces us to speed up induction of the Arihant and I don't have to distribute barfis

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 17 Jun 2011 02:55

Or this could be the most nefarious plan hatched by Rakesh and his cronies, the Russians, to wiggle out of his promise to buy mithai for BR members.

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 17 Jun 2011 02:56

Rakesh wrote:It is and another stark reminder of what happens when we rely on foreign suppliers to provide our military equipment. India will NOT acquire the second Akula, if the Russians are playing hard-to-get with the first one. As as a customer, if you cannot deliver on time...why would we come back to face the same music? At this rate, we may not even get the first one and that may be a good thing. It forces us to speed up induction of the Arihant and I don't have to distribute barfis

what about 700 million odd dollars..? written down..?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 17 Jun 2011 03:38

see russian politics is different from american politics which is different from desi one. IAF/MoD should not shake up a bit, rather proceed with what chips would have done. Our DSI value keeps increasing if we succumb to such pressure tactics, and keep on the trump that showing who is the end game maker.

now, what else you can expect ddm to link various events... before digging further into analysis, we have to wait since the recursions have dual aspects to it, one is negative though that our forces will have a sad face., where as on the positive side, it would strengthen our fight against firangi dependency syndrome.

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 17 Jun 2011 05:21

Okey Dokey, then a non highlighted edition of the post

NO Second Akula-II Class Nuclear-Powered Submarine will be Leased.
Reason : Turned Down by the Indian Navy

Russia Snubs India

Russia Snubs India
Moscow cancels two military exercises with India
Sandeep Unnithan
Edition : June 6, 2011

Relations between India and Russia soured in recent years over the extended deadline for the refit of the aircraft carrier, Admiral Gorshkov. The refit slipped by four years and the its cost doubled to $2.3 billion. The carrier will now be delivered late next year.

• Deadlines for the Acquisition of an Akula-II Class Nuclear-Powered Submarine Have Slipped by Over Three Years.

India paid $670 million for completing the submarine under a 2003 contract.

• This Month, a 100-Man Indian Crew that Had Gone to Vladivostok to Bring the Vessel Back Returned Empty-Handed.

• There is No Word on When the Strategic Submarine, which the Navy Desperately Needs, Will be Transferred to India.

• Russia is Reportedly Keen that India Pay for the Completion of a Second Unfinished Akula Hull at the Komsomolsk Shipyard.
This Has been Turned Down by the Navy.

• The Real Issue is the Poor Sourcing of Components for Russian-made Equipment Operated by the Indian Armed Forces.
Over Half the Inventory of the Three Armed Forces Comprise Equipment of Russian Origin. "It Takes Nearly a Year for us to get Even Export Permissions from Russia. This Severely Impacts Force Preparedness," says a Defence Official.

• Some of India's Consternation Over These Delays may have Spilled Over at a Meeting between Navy Chief Admiral Nirmal Verma and the Visiting Russian Navy Chief, Admiral Sergeevich Vysotskiy, this January.

• Various Department Heads of the Indian Navy Read out the Riot Act on the Poor Serviceability of Warships, Aircraft and Submarines to the Russian Naval Delegation.
After the Meeting, Russian Navy Chief Admiral Sergeevich Vysotskiy Privately Conveyed his Dismay at the Ambush.

The Warning Signs Appeared at a recent joint meeting in Moscow when Russian Defence Officials Refused to Discuss Military Exercises. Evidently, it was a Portent of the Chill to Come.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 17 Jun 2011 05:27

I thought we had the Shankar card. No?

Hard ball .....................

Love it.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 17 Jun 2011 08:03

would this not trickle down to IAF as well -> PAKFA?

---

Juggi G wrote:NO Second Akula-II Class Nuclear-Powered Submarine will be Leased.
Reason : Turned Down by the Indian Navy

atv++

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 17 Jun 2011 08:29

Say Sayonara to Amur and hello to HDW! Uncle might help them to fit under water launch tubes for missle?

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 17 Jun 2011 08:32

India’s Naval Modernization Program (Part 1 of 2)
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2011 ... ogram.html

India’s Naval Modernization Program (Part 2 of 2)

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 17 Jun 2011 09:33

MV Suez gives Indian Navy the cold treatment

A day after the Indian Navy ignored repeated calls for help by MV Suez, the ship released by the Somali pirates on Tuesday, the merchant vessel, today, gave the Navy a cold shoulder.

The merchant vessel did not respond to calls by INS Godavari - a Navy warship - which was dispatched last night by the Navy to escort MV Suez.

"On reaching MV Suez, INS Godavari made every effort through all available means and channels to communicate with Suez. However, the Master of MV Suez, didn't respond," the Navy said in a statement.

"After confirming that MV Suez was safe and was being escorted by other warships of coalition forces deployed in the Gulf of Aden, the Navy Ship continued escorting two other merchant vessels in the Gulf of Aden, whilst at the same time monitoring its transit in coordination with other navies," it said.

Indian government and the Navy had drawn flak from all corners for not helping out MV Suez sailors even after it came under a fresh attack by the pirates after its release.

The government had earlier put the onus of security on the owners of the ship. It is in fact Pakistan's PNS Babar that came to the rescue of the ship by providing cover for the Suez.

The merchant vessel was attacked by pirates earlier this week, causing fresh trauma for the 22-member crew that were first taken hostage last year. The crew, which includes six Indians, spent nine months in captivity.

Wasi Hasan, the Pakistani who captains the Suez, had said the crew may have to abandon the ship and hitch a ride with the PNS Babar. "The boiler in the engine room is not working, so our speed has slowed down from 15 knots to 8 knots," he told NDTV. He also said that there is eight tons of diesel left on board, not enough to get the Suez to the port of Salalah in Oman.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 17 Jun 2011 12:18

The four Indians need to be transferred from Suez INS Godavari and let's bring them home. Enough of this drama.
Is it that difficult to go in get the Indians and fly them back to the frigate.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 17 Jun 2011 12:50

^^^There has been lot of nonsense going on in the media about the above matter of PN Ship escorting MV Suez and IN not responding to SOS calls. The question that DDM should be asking is this: was there a IN ship available in area when the SOS signal was sent out? Another point: was the timing of release of ship and personnel disclosed to the Indian authorities-GOI and IN-before hand for them to able to position a ship in the general area and provide escort to MV Suez? There are no answers to above question and yet, DDM has gone to town with this nonsense.

Marut · Post by **Marut** » 17 Jun 2011 15:32

MV Suez is an Egyptian flagged vessel. When the release of the ship was announced, CTF 151 was informed of the status and PN ship, which happened to be the closest, was tasked for security detail. Of course, the Indian media went to town about this 'snub' from IN and GoI making an 'Aman ki Tamasha' out of this. Stung by this flak, INS Godavari was sent to escort the ship which is in CTF area of operations.

For the uninformed, CTF is Coalition Task Force 151 headed by US Navy and has many others nations providing security to merchant shipping against piracy threats. IN is not formally part of this grouping due to our insistence on deploying military only under UN flag. Hence the AOR is divided to ensure seamless coverage of the danger zone. Hopefully it dawns upon the coconuts in media why IN didn't escort the ship.

Also IN responsibility is primarily towards IN flagged ships. It will indeed be nice if we can sail everytime even a single Indian sailor is taken hostage, but capability - military & economic - put a spoke in the wheels. GoI did help out with the negotiations through back channels contacts and coordination with countries whose sailors were held hostage. It won't be acknowledged due to our stance of not paying ransom post IC814 incident.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 17 Jun 2011 15:46

Indian and Turkish navies to conduct Passage Exercise

I will be visiting TCG Barbaros.

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 17 Jun 2011 19:55

The desi "patriotic" media and of course Pakistani mouthpieces are certainly making a full feast out of this meager repast

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 17 Jun 2011 22:45

Juggi G wrote:Okey Dokey, then a non highlighted edition of the post

NO Second Akula-II Class Nuclear-Powered Submarine will be Leased.
Reason : Turned Down by the Indian Navy

Hmm, my guess - this is more wrangling for $$$/contracts by Russkis. Amur might in fact be the second line of subs.

Although in some ways I'd rather see a Scorp II with nuclear plug in - this kind of wrangling gets to be rather boring after a while.

CM

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 17 Jun 2011 22:47

^^Well prima facie it looks like blackmail. The Russians are basically telling us, "Pay for the second sub as well or you won't even get the first one you've already paid for".

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 17 Jun 2011 22:51

nachiket wrote:^^Well prima facie it looks like blackmail. The Russians are basically telling us, "Pay for the second sub as well or you won't even get the first one you've already paid for".

Where is Shankarovsky these days? With 'time tested BBFs' doing this, who needs sanctions?

After all, it was the Ruskies who came up with the Potemkin concept.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Jun 2011 06:30

there is not a snowballs chance in hell of Amur being our 2nd line base design. the ability to shoot a few brahmos is not the deciding criteria for a next gen SSK

there may infact not be a second line, rather just continued production of a extended Scorpene design - which makes perfect sense given the amt of time and $$ spent in establishing the first line @ mazgaon dock...call it "Marlin" if you like or "Swordfish"

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 18 Jun 2011 09:11

Firing Brahmos or its longer legged cousin Sagarika/Shaurya would be a requirement but not THE requirement. AIP would be a higher priority. I am not sure IN is wedded to this concept of wanting to have the second line as Russian. We would have follow-on orders for Scorpene for sure, probably add a AIP plug etc... my vote would go to U-Boats... with MMRCA going to the French (moist likely) Desh would award the Germans with the u-boat order!!!

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 18 Jun 2011 10:00

Out of MRCA, almost out of Transport planes and now Russians must be fearing the outcome of Submarine contract . Yindians can play same game on their fear of loosing and squeeze as much as they can from them. Start negotiations with SOKO to create leverage and watch Russian bear dance. Read the news that GOI have asked them to open their market for Indian products and streamline the visa process.