Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 2011

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Jun 2011 20:56

vdutta wrote: Good thing is local pakistanis just dream about utopia in their homes and killing fields called bazars but they never take any action. they never stood up to their govt or any dictator. we got independence in 1947 but they only got seperation . freedom and independence hasent arrived in pakistan yet thats why they are so easy to rule by just fake dramas and a small stick.

sure their "non state actors" ( read illegitimate children of isi ) hurt us time to time but they are no existential or a major threat to us

I am not sure why a comparison with India needs to be brought in. It has no relevance. When we talk about Pakistan, bringing in comparisons with India serve only to divert the issue. So I am going to ignore the comparisons. I am however going to comment on the following statement:

vdutta wrote: Good thing is local pakistanis just dream about utopia in their homes and killing fields called bazars but they never take any action.

What is a "good thing"?

"They never take any action" is a misreading of Pakistan. If you were a Pakistani in Pakistan - a mango Abdul - you will find that the army has the guns - so if you want to take action you can get killed. But if things get really bad - you will have to pick up arms and be ready to fight the army and the establishment. That is exactly what the "Bad Taliban" are doing.

Pakis call Taliban "good" only when they hit America (or Indians). If the same Taliban start attacking the Pakistani army and establishment, they become "bad Taliban". The bad Taliban are an example of "local Pakistanis taking action". Remember Lal Masjid? The attacks on the Paki army after that are an example of Pakis fighting back. They are not sitting quiet.

Please see this video. Less than 2 minutes. Some of these people are fighting back. They are making their opinions heard as bomb blasts. They are hardly keeping quiet.
http://www.youtube.com/abdulpackee#p/a/u/0/L_8TnRPHDCQ

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 19 Jun 2011 21:06

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 701D75.DTL
AP sources: Pakistanis tip off militants again
By KIMBERLY DOZIER, AP Intelligence Writer
Sunday, June 19, 2011
"In another blow to Washington's relationship with Pakistan, U.S. officials say Pakistan failed another test to prove it could be trusted to go after American enemies on its soil by intentionally or inadvertently tipping off militants at two more bomb-building factories in its tribal areas, giving the suspected terrorists time to flee.
The two sites' locations in the tribal areas had been shared with the Pakistani government this past week, the officials said Saturday. The Americans monitored the area with satellite and unmanned drones to see what would happen.
In each case, within a day or so after sharing the information, they watched the militants depart, taking any weapons or bomb-making materials with them, just as militants had done the first two times. Only then, did they watch the Pakistani military visit each site, when the terror suspects and their wares were long gone, the officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss matters of intelligence......"
Is there any point in repeating the experiment?
Gautam

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 19 Jun 2011 21:21

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/06/ ... .pakistan/

Husain Haqqani on CNN

The U.S.-Pakistan relationship faces new challenges, but recent media characterization of a breakdown in relations is clearly exaggerated.
...
...Pakistan has paid an enormous price in our fight against extremism and terrorism: 35,000 civilians killed, more Pakistani soldiers lost than all of NATO combined, 2,000 police dead, the assassination of our leader Benazir Bhutto and massive losses to our economy in investment, trade and infrastructure.
We appreciate America's help, but the notion that America has "given" Pakistan $20 billion since 9/11 needs to be seen in context. About $12 billion of this figure is Coalition Support Funds, reimbursements for expenses incurred by Pakistan in counterterrorism operations. They covered the cost of the fuel, ordinance, training and execution of counterterrorist operations.
The blood, sweat, effort, grit and guts are those of a Pakistan that bears the brunt of the battle against terrorism, a battle clearly in the national security interests of the United States.

disha · Post by **disha** » 19 Jun 2011 21:55

somnath wrote:...My hypothesis is that traditionally, the Paki elite entered into a compact with its hoi polloi, wherein it traded its dominance in the state power structures and economy for a veneer of "islamisation" on affairs spiritual and anti-India stance on affairs temporal... ....

JMT...There is a large dollop of pop sociology in there, so I might be off the track completely...

And the elite has deluded itself in believing in its own supremacy. Anyways, to help you further on your tracks, ask them what they think about 26/11 and Parliament attack and the genocide in Bengal (you will be fortunate if you can move beyond 26/11).

I have to deal with several bakis and they are both elites and upper class and some hoi polloi and infact one of my favorite baki is in lawhore currently - (just wishing more of PNS Mehran thingy in Lawhore). In my talks with them, I never get a sense of "responsibility"., nary a sense of remorse - always it turns out to be how bad indians/hindus/yanks/joos/balochis yaada yaada are or how non-state actors are bringing bakistan bad name. And when they run across Indian Christians or other Indian muslims who do not share their world view - their cognitive dissonance is seen to be believed.

Worst, they breed more bakis with a sense of entitlement - one of that is to free all the muslim from big bad hindu dominated India. I have seen 9 year olds talk about muslim-mistreatment in India and how they are going to solve that, even and invariably by violent means.

What I say here is nothing new on BRF, the point is that if you (the rhetoric you) have access to them, do press further. Do interrogate them more and do ask hard questions. If you do not or do not want to because you do not want to listen what is said, then you are lying to yourself. There is no point in coming here and trying to influence others.

Of course now with the India growth story, every baki pig wants to join a floating ship - but before some of this baki-elites come, the hindu RSS and all other hindus like them should be controlled.

PS: Last from me on this topic and going back to lurk mode.

vdutta · Post by **vdutta** » 19 Jun 2011 21:59

I concede

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Jun 2011 22:59

Something to watch for as prelude to the Colonels coup is any unusual air movements, activity at PAF bases that have the clown jewels, any movement of armored columns for re-deployment, cancellation of leave etc.

Also after PNS Mehran, its likely that AlQ or Pakiban already have pried some jewels.
Not necessarily from PNS Mehran but other places.

Its message of power and impunity to TSPA.

The sister services TSPN and Fizzleya have become more jihadi it counter the TSPA primacy in pecking order.

Again case of more green taking out less green.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 20 Jun 2011 00:20

Guardian journalist badly beaten for the second time in Pakistan
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ju ... n-pakistan

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 20 Jun 2011 00:27

Bombed Islamabad bank denies sacrilege

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 20 Jun 2011 01:23

Cafe Pyala on Syed Saleem Shahzad's book
http://cafepyala.blogspot.com/2011/06/r ... rachi.html

Consider the story of Bin Yameen, also known as Ibn-e-Ameen, who the author identified as the actual enforcer behind the Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Shariat-e-Mohammadi (TNSM) movement to declare Sharia law in Swat in 2009.

......{Fought with the Taliban, was captured}

But it was not his seven years in the Northern Alliance jails that embittered him.
....
{In the aftermath of the attempt on Musharraf's life in December 2003}

On August 21, 2004, Pakistan’s security agencies raided Bin Yameen’s house in Peshawar........Later his wife and son were released but Bin Yameen never forgot the humiliation suffered by his wife at the hands of Pakistan’s security personnel.....After his release three years later he went on to become Al Qaeda’s secret mole in TNSM. They recognized the value of his “unbelievable” hatred – his politeness had become an insatiable thirst to slit the throats of Pakistan army personnel – and recruited him precisely because of it.

Since Musharraf first allied Pakistan to the US post-9/11 and the inevitable crackdown on jihadis began – the author’s thesis goes – Al Qaeda has waited, watched, and selected the, if not brightest, at least most committed former children of the US/Pak military machine to turn on their parents. On one level, it is Freudian: kill your mother (Pakistan), kill your father (the army, any army, dates are fluid, and which parent remembers the exact moment of conception anyway?). On another level, it is frightening: we are not even targets, we are collateral damage, and the suicide bombers' strings are being pulled by a parasitic entity that spreads from host to host in less time than it takes for Ansar Abbasi to go from ‘ISI good’ to ‘ISI bad.’

Al Qaeda accomplished what no one had been able to do in Pakistan’s seven tribal agencies before: break the back of the local sardar/ jirga system

ManjaM · Post by **ManjaM** » 20 Jun 2011 01:33

A terrorist outfit targeted a bank in Islamabad on June 13 because its floor tiles and their design were strikingly analogous to the sacred name, Allah, and the bank did not change them despite complaints to its management.

how crazy can things get? and how the hell do these groups convince some guy to blow himself up to convince a bank to change their tiles? high retardation.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 20 Jun 2011 01:37

ManjaM wrote: how crazy can things get? and how the hell do these groups convince some guy to blow himself up to convince a bank to change their tiles? high retardation.

Not enough vegetables and too much goat in the diet....

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 20 Jun 2011 01:50

DDM finally gets its right on TSP instead of the WKK nonsense we have been accustomed to

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Terror-is ... 11359.aspx

Bin Laden’s death’s main accomplishment was to remove what was a symbolic detraction from what has been the main terrorist issue of the world for at least the past five or six years: the problem of Pakistan.

Hopefully, next time when some dignitary from US/UK comes to Delhi and says the solution to the problem of Pakistan (or TSP) is Kashmir, DDM will summon the courage to say kiss my ass.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 20 Jun 2011 01:53

Too much of "weed and poppy" too!

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 20 Jun 2011 02:54

shravan wrote:Guardian journalist badly beaten for the second time in Pakistan
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ju ... n-pakistan

The assault revived concerns about media freedom in Pakistan, one of the world's most dangerous countries for journalists. Three weeks ago, another reporter, Saleem Shahzad, was beaten to death after disappearing from the capital.

Some one tell Guardian editorial board that "it is all the fault of yindoos that there is no media freedom in the land of secular military and gentle eyeYesEye. If injuns settle cashmere by giving all of it to Pukes and let them rape and murder all yindoos, sikhs, buddhists, christians there, Pakistan military generals and isi officers will provide the world's best media freedom. Sarmila Bose can guarantee it. She knows how gentle, soft talking and respectful the Paki military generals are and it is all the fault of injuns propaganda that there is no media propaganda. Infact, the journalist beat himself to make these allegations.. ".

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 20 Jun 2011 03:19

ramana wrote:Something to watch for as prelude to the Colonels coup is any unusual air movements, activity at PAF bases that have the clown jewels, any movement of armored columns for re-deployment, cancellation of leave etc.

Ramanaji,
I have been thinking about your comment regarding "the Colonels coup". It has been at the back of my mind since the article in the NY Times regarding the difficulties that Arsfuk was having, and his subordinates may overthrow him for being too close to the Sher Khan. But, this has never happened in Pukistan. From the great Field Marshall (better than Rommel) Ayub to (400% correct every time) Mush, all military dictators have come to power in Pukistan through a coup, disposing a civilian government, but none were disposed by their subordinate officers. That is there has been no Colonels coup in their history. They have always claimed that the disciplined Puke army have stepped in only as a last resort to save the country from a disaster, and they will return the country to democracy asap . This argument does not work for a Colonel's coup. So, could it not be a ruse by Arsfuk to garner US support and financial aid and get him out of a tight spot?
Just a thought,
Gautam

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 20 Jun 2011 03:37

abhishek_sharma wrote:
Rahul M wrote:>> i wish we had those kind of people too..
that's a needless self goal IMO, we have no dearth of self-critical people. in fact we might just have too many !
+1.

One test for identifying a "reasonable Paki" (oxymoron) would be to know his/her views about the Partition of India. People like Najam Sethi would say that it was necessary for preserving the rights of Musalmaans of India.

Some others (Muslims--Indian/Paki) would say that the Partition was wrong because it weakened the Muslims of India. This is the position of Indian Muslim clerics.

A very small minority would say that partition was not really needed because the rights of all would be guaranteed in a democratic and secular society.

The mistake Pakistanis made in 1947 was that they did not realize the majority of Hindus are lefti "sekularists" who would have worked with the 45% Muslims (Pakistani and B'Desh) and harmed all the religious Hindus and made them slaves.

The Pakistanis totally underestimated the hatred the Sekurlaist of India have for Hindus and the Hindu culture of India. Its far worse than AQ. They could have had their glory of the Mughal empire. They blew it. They split the alliance of India's lefties with Pakistanis. Even today, the lefties want to join hands with them..but the Pakistanis are too stupid to use the lefties of India to make a powerful power block.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Jun 2011 06:13

A_Gupta wrote:Cafe Pyala on Syed Saleem Shahzad's book
http://cafepyala.blogspot.com/2011/06/r ... rachi.html

Interesting stuff. I need to get this book.

it was now Admiral Mullen and General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani who were central to the Pakistan-US equation.”

Shahzad listed some of the salient features of the new relationship. They included: The Pakistan Army being in sole charge of military operations while “parliament and the civil administration were there simply to provide coordination and moral support ”, a US$1 billion plan to expand the US presence in Pakistan’s capital city, Islamabad, private security firms (DynCorp aka Blackwater) setting up offices in Islamabad “where they had already rented 284 houses, besides setting up bases in Peshawar and Quetta. In addition, Pakistan was to provide land in Tarbela to the United States for its operations ”, and the ISI setting up a “syndicated intelligence service under a proxy network to provide information to be transmitted to the CIA predator drones used to target the top Al Qaeda leadership in Pakistan’s tribal areas.

That plan never came to fruition though. Shahzad established how often the Pakistani national security apparatus was outmaneuvered, sabotaged or made to just look plain stupid.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 20 Jun 2011 07:26

g.sarkar wrote:But, this has never happened in Pukistan. From the great Field Marshall (better than Rommel) Ayub to (400% correct every time) Mush, all military dictators have come to power in Pukistan through a coup, disposing a civilian government, but none were disposed by their subordinate officers. That is there has been no Colonels coup in their history.
Gautam

Gautam, no, that's not entirely accurate. FM Ayub Khan, Hilal-i-Pakistan, Hilal-i-Jura’at, was indeed forced out by the PA. Then, there was an attempt on his life by PN officers in 1967. In Jan. 1968, there was Agartala Conspiracy purportedly by certain PA officers. Similarly, the wayward drunkard and womaniser Gen. Yahya Khan was asked to go by a group of mid-level officers.

arun · Post by **arun** » 20 Jun 2011 08:06

X Posted from the Pakistani Role in Global Terrorism thread.

The New York Times reports that “For the second time this month, bomb-making factories in Pakistan were evacuated shortly after American intelligence officials notified Pakistani security forces of their existence, fueling suspicions that such intelligence is being shared with insurgents ……………………………”:

Suspicions Rise as Pakistan Bomb Labs Empty Before Raids

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Jun 2011 08:23

SSridhar wrote:
g.sarkar wrote:But, this has never happened in Pukistan. From the great Field Marshall (better than Rommel) Ayub to (400% correct every time) Mush, all military dictators have come to power in Pukistan through a coup, disposing a civilian government, but none were disposed by their subordinate officers. That is there has been no Colonels coup in their history.
Gautam
Gautam, no, that's not entirely accurate. FM Ayub Khan, Hilal-i-Pakistan, Hilal-i-Jura’at, was indeed forced out by the PA. Then, there was an attempt on his life by PN officers in 1967. In Jan. 1968, there was Agartala Conspiracy purportedly by certain PA officers. Similarly, the wayward drunkard and womaniser Gen. Yahya Khan was asked to go by a group of mid-level officers.

Not to mention the attempted coup during Benazir Bhutto's time by Maj Gen. Abbassi who was court martialed and Mushy set him free when he took power.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Jun 2011 08:25

Folks I am trying to figure out this MV Suez story from news items. And there are hundreds. I will post a few seemingly relevant ones in order

March 2011
http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... rs-mv-suez

Mar 2, 2011, 12.21pm IST

NEW DELHI: Government today said it was making all efforts to seek the release of six Indian hostages on board an Egyptian cargo ship which was hijacked by Somali pirates in the Gulf of Aden.

March 10 2011
http://news.oneindia.in/2011/03/10/fate ... d0120.html

On Mar 2, TV reports quoted a pirate as saying, "We are also running short of time, last 8 months we have been going on like this. All we want is the ransom, if someone comes with the money tomorrow morning, one week is maximum. Now there is no reason and I will not say what we are going to do next, we do not like talking to the media. But you can understand, so try to do something."

Families of the six Indian sailors onboard MV Suez have now decided to hold a protest in New Delhi on Mar 10. Sushma Swaraj, leader of the opposition will tahe the kins of the six Indian sailors to Speaker of the Lok Sabha. They are also expected to meet Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in the evening.

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_in ... rt_1555416

An Indian Navy warship will escort the Egyptian merchant vessel MV Suez to Salalah port in Oman with 22 crew members including six Indians, two days after it was released by Somali pirates.

MV Suez was released by pirates on June 13 and is now "safely proceeding" towards Salalah with 22 crew members, including six Indians, and will be escorted by an Indian Navy Godavari-class frigate to Salalah, government sources said here.

The ship at the moment is being escorted by warships of European Navies present in the region and will be under the escort of the Indian Navy tomorrow morning and will reach Salalah on June 17 ship, they said.

On the possibility of the ship being attacked again by other pirate groups, the sources said the Indian Navy had recommended that the owners of the ship provide a tug for technical support and a 'Vessel Protection Detachment' to be deployed on the MV Suez for protecting it from pirates but they have not adhered to it.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/story ... 41789.html

The INS Godavari, which was diverted to ensure a safe passage for the Egyptian merchant ship MV Suez, released by Somalian pirates two days ago, had to return after the master of the vessel did not respond to the escort assistance.

MV Suez, with six Indians on board, is now being given protection by warships from other navies of the coalition forces including that of Pakistan.

The crew of the ship on Wednesday had raised an alarm about another hijack attempt after which the coalition forces responded.

INS Godavari, which was escorting two other ships with 21 Indians on board through the Gulf of Aden, was diverted to help the Egyptian vessel.

After getting no response from the ship, INS Godavari returned to the Gulf of Aden. "INS Godavari made every effort through all available means and channels to communicate. However, the master of ship did not respond," a statement issued by the naval headquarters said.

"After confirming that MV Suez was safe and was being escorted by other warships of coalition forces, INS Godavari continued its task of escorting the two other merchant vessels," the statement added.

Families of the Indian crew members on MV Suez had on Wednesday alleged that the Indian Navy had not responded to its distress call. After being released by pirates, who were paid a ransom of $ 2.1 million, it remained in the danger zone and could have been hijacked again.

Navy sources denied the allegations and claimed it had made frantic efforts to reach out. Since Godavari was escorting two other ships, other navies operating in the region were contacted.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/nervo ... ez/806019/

India pulled the INS Godavari, which was in the region on a routine international anti-piracy mission, off its regular duty to the aid of the MV Suez, which had six Indian crew on board, leading to a mid-ocean scrap with the Pakistani PNS Babur, with the two warships brushing past each other.

Pictures and videos of the encounter — which have been shared with Pakistan — show that Babur was deliberately tailing the Godavari so close that it brushed past the Indian warship’s aft. As the Pakistani warship — which was described by government sources as a “history-sheeter” with two earlier incidents of risky behaviour at sea — tangled with the INS Godavari, its crew shouted anti-India slogans.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/mv-suez-capt ... 805-3.html

New Delhi: Pakistani Human Rights Activist Ansar Burney on Sunday said that the crew on board MV Suez has to be shifted from had to be shifted to PNS Babur which was escorting it, due to bad weather.

MV Suez crew members shifted to PNS Babur. 18 crew members have already been shifted, remaining 4 will be shifted in few minutes from now," said Burney.

The Captain and crew of the cargo ship MV Suez had taken the decision to abandon the ship and shift to Pakistan's PNS Babur escorting the ship as the ship had run out of diesel and it was getting more and more difficult to control the ship in the rough sea.

The ship has been stationary at around 75 miles from Salalah.

They said that the owner is not responding to their calls and they do not have a clue about the tugboat, which was supposed to reach on Saturday, but hasn't reached till now.

Meanwhile the tugboat which was supposed to tug Suez to Salalah port has returned because of bad weather.

MV Suez with PNS Babur escorting it is enroute to Oman and was expected to reach the port by Saturday. The 22-member crew including six Indians, four Pakistanis, one Sri Lankan and 11 Egyptian nationals will disembark and travel to Muscat after reaching Oman. From Muscat, the crew members will be flown back to their respective countries by air.

Somali pirates on Monday released MV Suez after almost 10 months of hijacking the vessel and all members on board. Twenty-two hostages, including six Indians and four Pakistani sailor, had been released.

The pirates had taken the crew members, including Egyptians and a Sri Lankan, hostage after capturing the vessel MV Suez in 2010 and demanded $ 2.1 million for their release. The ship belongs to an Egyptian company.

BSR Murthy · Post by **BSR Murthy** » 20 Jun 2011 09:23

shiv wrote:Folks I am trying to figure out this MV Suez story from news items. And there are hundreds. I will post a few seemingly relevant ones in order

MV Suez with PNS Babur escorting it is enroute to Oman and was expected to reach the port by Saturday. The 22-member crew including six Indians, four Pakistanis, one Sri Lankan and 11 Egyptian nationals will disembark and travel to Muscat after reaching Oman. From Muscat, the crew members will be flown back to their respective countries by air.

The latest IBN story says otherwise.
"Hopefully they will reach Karachi in the next 2-3 days. Once they do, I will immediately send them to India. They are on PNS Babur right now but they are going to be shifted to PNS Zulfiqar, which will bring them to Karachi," said Burney. "When they arrive in Karachi, I will escort them to airport and send them to their respective countries without any delay.
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/indian-crew- ... 854-3.html

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 20 Jun 2011 10:17

This MV Suez story is getting murkier by the hour. Whenever TSP gets involved in anything, it is guaranteed to be murky because it is their very nature.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 20 Jun 2011 10:54

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCL0lp82Yic

Former Pakistan ISI director Hamid Gul talks with Alex about drone strikes in his country and the expansion of attacks elsewhere in the war on terror.

Check how the Pak generals are put on pressure by US generals

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 20 Jun 2011 10:56

SSridhar wrote:This MV Suez story is getting murkier by the hour. Whenever TSP gets involved in anything, it is guaranteed to be murky because it is their very nature.

New story and the publicty points to somethings.
Pak is getting publicity for policing the sea around it and to show it is not giving it up to India.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 20 Jun 2011 12:04

Lower Kurram: 7 Killed in 4 missile attacks in Lower Kurram. Pakistan officials say drone attacks are very rare in Kurram tribal area.

Rajdeep · Post by **Rajdeep** » 20 Jun 2011 12:25

On the MV Suez issue , it seems like a last ditch effort to save some H&D by the paki navy.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Jun 2011 14:53

by scuttling the suez and shifting everyone to babar, instead of muscat oman, it will karachi as the landing point.

perhaps one female NDTV anchor is already onsite to take charge of the media circus there.

amit · Post by **amit** » 20 Jun 2011 15:00

Singha wrote:by scuttling the suez and shifting everyone to babar, instead of muscat oman, it will karachi as the landing point.

perhaps one female NDTV anchor is already onsite to take charge of the media circus there.

It remains to be seen how soon the six Indian sailors are allowed to come back to India. Hope they are not forced to sign declarations and/or give interviews to show how bad and hegemonic the Indian Navy is ityadi.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 20 Jun 2011 15:29

Wait for sometime before the links of MV Suez's captain with Somali Pirates come out along with other details. Trust the Pakis on this.
BTW What happens to such abandoned ships ?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 20 Jun 2011 15:40

amit wrote:
Singha wrote:by scuttling the suez and shifting everyone to babar, instead of muscat oman, it will karachi as the landing point.

perhaps one female NDTV anchor is already onsite to take charge of the media circus there.

It remains to be seen how soon the six Indian sailors are allowed to come back to India. Hope they are not forced to sign declarations and/or give interviews to show how bad and hegemonic the Indian Navy is ityadi.

Thats exactly the reason why they are being taken to Karachi.

Patni · Post by **Patni** » 20 Jun 2011 16:30

VikasRaina wrote:Wait for sometime before the links of MV Suez's captain with Somali Pirates come out along with other details. Trust the Pakis on this.
BTW What happens to such abandoned ships ?

Many sources linked on BRF mention that it was scuttled by its Paki captian by opening up seacock valves. Basically seacock are valves on main hull of a ship, many times located under the engine room, which when opened will allow sea water to flood the hull and ship will sink to bottom. Technically "scuttling" is defined as deliberate sinking of a ship by flooding its hull with seawater.
Its a routine procedure to open seacock before abandoning a ship, even on one which is obviously sinking on its own.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 20 Jun 2011 17:15

SSridhar wrote:This MV Suez story is getting murkier by the hour. Whenever TSP gets involved in anything, it is guaranteed to be murky because it is their very nature.

Methinks that something is definitely black in the lentils here:

Not in the order of events:
Fact 1: Paki captain of MV Suez directly calls the paki foreign ministry and PN after being released the second time.
Fact 2: Paki captain refuses INS Godavari's help. Did not acknowledge Godavari's communications.
Fact 3: PN Babur rushes into international waters, far from home, to aid a released ship.
Fact 4: Paki captain decides to scuttle the ship rather than be towed back into Oman.
Fact 5: PN Babur decides to escort the crew (pakis, Indians and all) back to pakiland (a three day ride) rather than take them to Oman (75 miles)
Fact 6: PN Babur tries to brush against INS Godavari, thus effectively preventing INS Godavari to "board" MV Suez.
Fact 6: (and this is where it gets really murky) Pakis decide to foot the ransom money!
Fact 7: The stated manifest of MV Suez was "cement bags" headed from K'rachi to Eritrea.
Fact 8: The legal owners of MV Suez are MIA.

Someone did not want the Indians taking control of MV Suez, however briefly. Intrigue in mid-sea? What really was the ship carrying that the Somalis now have?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 20 Jun 2011 17:18

VikasRaina wrote:Wait for sometime before the links of MV Suez's captain with Somali Pirates come out along with other details. Trust the Pakis on this.
BTW What happens to such abandoned ships ?

This.

sum · Post by **sum** » 20 Jun 2011 17:40

^^ DnA paper mentioned "sources" mentioning that the Babur crew were shouting anti-Indian slogans while doing dangerous maneuvers near the Godavari and this has riled up IN even more..

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 20 Jun 2011 17:44

anupmisra wrote:Someone did not want the Indians taking control of MV Suez, however briefly. Intrigue in mid-sea? What really was the ship carrying that the Somalis now have?

Would the Indians on board be knowing of the nature of goods, the nature of interactions between the Pakistanis and the Somalis, etc.?!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 20 Jun 2011 18:18

anupmisra wrote:Someone did not want the Indians taking control of MV Suez, however briefly. Intrigue in mid-sea?

And, that same 'someone' did not want to leave any trace and hence the scuttling and escort by PN and aggressive action against IN. I sincerely hope that Indian sailors are not put in harm's way. Karachi is a notorious place.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 20 Jun 2011 18:23

likely to be arms shipments or drugs
or maybe even sending some gear for saudi birathers that glows in the dark

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 20 Jun 2011 18:51

RajeshA wrote:
anupmisra wrote:Someone did not want the Indians taking control of MV Suez, however briefly. Intrigue in mid-sea? What really was the ship carrying that the Somalis now have?
Would the Indians on board be knowing of the nature of goods, the nature of interactions between the Pakistanis and the Somalis, etc.?!

Probably not, being lowly crew members. The shipped goods are generally in sealed containers. Unless one of the Indians was a Raa agint. My guess is that the only person who would know the exact nature of the manifest would be the captain. Note that for ten months, no one (including the legal owners) wanted to pay the ransom, and then all of a sudden, everyone wakes up.

This set up reminds me of those Eyrainian and North Korean ships carrying metallic tubes ("for construction and water supply").

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 20 Jun 2011 18:52

Lalmohan wrote:likely to be arms shipments or drugs
or maybe even sending some gear for saudi birathers that glows in the dark

Quite likely the former, headed to the war torn region of Eritrea/Ethipoia/Somalia. Saudi's would be supplied by air.