Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 2011

sum · Post by **sum** » 22 Jun 2011 21:06

Lalmohan wrote:72 dolphins will appear and swim with them down to dawood junaid's locker whilst green wetsuited djinns lead them through the murky depths past the sheikh's resting place to the deep blue jannat

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 22 Jun 2011 22:04

"Vibrant Press" in the Pakistani context means journalists shivering in their socks.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 22 Jun 2011 22:05

An edition of Pak. "we ought to throw in the towel"
http://asiancorrespondent.com/57874/pak ... rithmetic/

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 22 Jun 2011 22:07

Gunman kills Shia pilgrims in bus attack: police

QUETTA: A gunman opened fire on a bus carrying Shia Muslim pilgrims in southwestern Pakistan on Wednesday, killing three people and wounding nine others, police said.

The shooting happened in Akhtarabad, on the outskirts of Quetta, the capital of oil and gas-rich Baluchistan province, which borders Afghanistan and Iran.

“At least three people were killed and nine others were wounded when one of the four gunmen riding two motorbikes opened fire on a bus carrying Shia pilgrims to Iran,” senior local police official Farid Breach told AFP.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 22 Jun 2011 22:15

Security official dead in South Waziristan attack
2011/06/21
---
Three security officials, four militants killed in Khyber, Orakzai
2011/06/22

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jun 2011 22:32

A_Gupta wrote:An edition of Pak. "we ought to throw in the towel"
http://asiancorrespondent.com/57874/pak ... rithmetic/

I think national interests mantra will lead to the kabila settling down once they realize that Pakjabi is getting bogged down fighting the mohajir dreams of jahnda on Lal Qila. yu can see the strand in above article.

Also some of our BENIS guys should post on such outlets and draw them into a debate.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 22 Jun 2011 22:42

ramana wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:An edition of Pak. "we ought to throw in the towel"
http://asiancorrespondent.com/57874/pak ... rithmetic/
I think national interests mantra will lead to the kabila settling down once they realize that Pakjabi is getting bogged down fighting the mohajir dreams of jahnda on Lal Qila. yu can see the strand in above article.

Also some of our BENIS guys should post on such outlets and draw them into a debate.

Ramana,
it would require taking the bull by the horns, i.e. the Pakistan army. The army has to be discredited for that.

None of these smooth talkers, even at the edges of "moderate" Pakistan "society" are doing that. Notice even in that article, he dances and prances around the army, even though he is a non-resident Pakistan, the epitome of RAPE.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Jun 2011 23:54

http://www.frumforum.com/4-pak-majors-q ... error-ties

The Pakistan army is questioning four more officers about suspected links with a banned extremist group that has called for the military to oust the country’s government, the army spokesman said Wednesday.A day earlier, the army said it detained a senior officer working at army headquarters, Brig. Ali Khan, for suspected links with the group, Hizb-ut-Tahrir. The four army majors who are being questioned have not been detained, said army spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas.Western officials have long suspected some Pakistani military officials of having ties to Islamist militant groups, especially al-Qaida and the Taliban. Those fears spiked after American forces discovered and killed Osama bin Laden in an army town not far from Islamabad — although the U.S. has found no evidence senior Pakistani officials knew his location.

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 22 Jun 2011 23:57

Man sentenced to death for blasphemy

CHAKWAL: An additional district and sessions judge in Talagang sentenced a man to death on Tuesday for committing blasphemy.

Judge Rana Zahoor Ahmad also imposed a fine of Rs50,000 on 29-year-old Abdul Sattar, a resident of Larkana, who was sent to prison in Jhelum.
Mohammad Saeed, of Talagang town, had filed a complaint with the city police station on Feb 5 last year. He said he had been receiving derogatory text messages and calls from a wrong number for several days. He told police that contents of the messages and conversation of the caller blasphemed Holy Quran, Prophet (PBUH) and Sahabas (companions of the Prophet) {400% Waji-bull-cattle onlee} .

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 23 Jun 2011 00:01

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Sou ... oon-season
( they do remain Poakically lazy as they were before 47)

This year, rainfall is expected to be about 10 percent lower than in 2010, and authorities say 2- to 6 million people could be adversely affected.But that's a best-case scenario. Factors ranging from limiting the powers of the National Disaster Management Authority (NDMA), to a failure to desilt dams, plant trees on heavily deforested land, and draw up new plans for flood zoning could mean a repeat of last year's widespread loss of life and property destruction, say multiple officials at the NDMA.The scenario is pretty grim. We haven’t done a lot since last year – the sanctioned strength of the NDMA has not been increased, in fact we’re still facing a severe shortfall,” says one senior official, saying a full staff of 21 officers had an annual budget of only some $740,000.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Jun 2011 00:27

Asma Jehangir Urges Civilians to Challenge Army

The Abortabad raid was a strategic defeat for the TSPA. I don't think massa wanted it that way but things take a course of their own once initiated. The double whammy was the PNS Mehran raid by whoever.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 23 Jun 2011 00:45

Is anyone hearing the loud ear piercing echoes of coup??

and she has just become wajib-ul-cattle for army.

joygoswami · Post by **joygoswami** » 23 Jun 2011 01:24

Lt.Col Ralph Peters, a Fox News analyst says Pak Army are Terror Junkies

http://video.foxnews.com/v/995428740001 ... s-an-ally/

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 23 Jun 2011 02:51

ramana wrote:Asma Jehangir Urges Civilians to Challenge Army

The Abortabad raid was a strategic defeat for the TSPA. I don't think massa wanted it that way but things take a course of their own once initiated. The double whammy was the PNS Mehran raid by whoever.

Indeed. I think TSP lost its OBL trump card to milk its usefulness as an all-lie, and with that things started coming downhill. I mean think about it, if TSP would have sacrificed OBL in the glare of CNN/Fox thick in the middle of 2012 US presedential election season, can you imagine the strategic benefits TSP would have reaped? Those dreams came crashing down, an entire TSP investment down the tubes. Hence the huge heartburn.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 23 Jun 2011 03:21

anupmisra wrote:No nore U-turns says UTurn Afridi. I will not take a u-turn: Afridi
Don't blame him. He is only following the national past time.

Pakistan former skipper Shahid Afridi said that he would never go back on his word and he would not reverse his retirement decision even after the legal battle against the board has ended in an out-of-court settlement.
After reaching an agreement with the board, where Afridi was reissued his NOC to play cricket for Hampshire county, while Afridi agreed and later appeared before PCB’s disciplinary committee and prematurely ended his legal battle against the board, it was speculated that Afridi might take a U-Turn as did his other colleagues did in the past. The most recent case is of prolific middle order batsman Mohammad Yousuf, who retired from international cricket last year but ironically he came out of it in the same year.
I give him six months. Tops. "In the interest of nation's honor and dignity, and to preserve the national sovirginity, I have once again decided to...."

^^^
I take back my predictions of six months. It took less than 60 hours. U-Turn Afridi I’m back: Afridi but there are conditions attached:

Shahid Afridi said he wants to make an international comeback on Wednesday

“I am not finished. I will come back in the team with respect but for that I will wait for the situation to improve and some people to be removed from the team management”

The 31-year-old denied money was his only motive for playing county cricket abroad.

“To play for Pakistan has always been my priority”

“I get more money playing for Pakistan than in a county match, but money has never been my priority. I will come back but only if the situation improves.”

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Jun 2011 03:27

Wow thats quick turnaround. Maybe Dawood got to him.

Jaspreet · Post by **Jaspreet** » 23 Jun 2011 05:39

Does anyone remember what Pakistani newspapers used to say around 11-12 years ago?

They used to call India the sick man of South Asia. One article said that for India to be "accepted in the comity of nations" she has to do this and that (basically, hand over Kashmir to the greatest civilization of South Asia).

What a difference a decade makes!

arun · Post by **arun** » 23 Jun 2011 06:09

Anurag wrote:From Abbottabad to Worse

Christopher Hitchens

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/feat ... den-201107 ...........{Snipped}..........

Christopher Hitchens' article in Vanity Fair, "From Abbottabad to Worse", causes much takleef for Dr. C. Christine Fair who rushes to the defence of the Islamic Republic of Pakistanl.

From Huffington Post:

The Road From Abbottabad Leads to Lame Analysis

A synopsis of Fair's dispute with Hitchens by Tom Wright is available at the Wall Street Journal. Check out the comments as well:

Hitchens’ Pakistan Polemic Draws Flack

arun · Post by **arun** » 23 Jun 2011 06:31

Indications that the Military dominated "Deep State" of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is on a mission to cover up records of Osama Bin Laden’s sojourn there.

Head of the US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Dianne Feinstein, lets slip that records of Osama Bin Laden’s Abbotabad compound may have vanished:

Asked by The Cable if she had seen any evidence that senior Pakistani government officials had been involved in the hiding of bin Laden, Feinstein paused, thought for a moment, and then gave a very careful response.

"I don't understand how somebody could buy the land for $48,000, get the building permits, get a contractor, build for a period of time what is essentially the largest home compound in the area, where somebody lives for five years, and nobody asks who's there or finds out who's there," she said.

Then she offered this fascinating tidbit:

"I understand it's very difficult to go back and find the records, that they suddenly disappeared. That's not a positive sign either," she said.

Pressed by The Cable on how she knew that the bin Laden files had been lost, she said, "That's what the rumor is... I didn't hear this from [the] intel [community]."

Read it all in Foreign Policy:

Feinstein 'rumor': Pakistan lost the files on Osama's compound

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 23 Jun 2011 06:51

They used to call India the sick man of South Asia. One article said that for India to be "accepted in the comity of nations" she has to do this and that (basically, hand over Kashmir to the greatest civilization of South Asia).

What a difference a decade makes!

What we are witnessing here is an historic process. It is the resolution of the historical dialectic of India, post bin Qasim. It is the defeat of the idol smasher version of Islam. I will not call it a victory for dharma because Hinduism is not a triumphalist creed. Perhaps only Sikhi can take some satisfaction in this denouement of a truly titanic struggle.

It is all the more significant as the iconoclasts are destroying (only) themselves in their zealotry-while India remains as impassive as ever in its karma. A karma that is distancing the economy from Pakistan at an exponential rate.In ten years time, Pakistanis might as well dream of conquering and colonising Neptune as planting the green flag on the Red Fort.

It is truly astounding that India has done this with a minimal expenditure of treasure and more importantly, blood.

arun · Post by **arun** » 23 Jun 2011 07:02

X Posted from the “Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc” thread.

Fareed Zakaria on “The radicalization of Pakistan’s military” in a Washington Post Op-Ed:

Clicky

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 23 Jun 2011 07:12

Jaspreet wrote:Does anyone remember what Pakistani newspapers used to say around 11-12 years ago?

They used to call India the sick man of South Asia. One article said that for India to be "accepted in the comity of nations" she has to do this and that (basically, hand over Kashmir to the greatest civilization of South Asia).

What a difference a decade makes!

Seriously?

Got any links to those? I'd love to read em.

Samudragupta · Post by **Samudragupta** » 23 Jun 2011 07:13

An interesting take on TSPA.....

However, whatever sentiments his fellow khakis have about the United States, the fact is, the Pakistani officer corps comprises largely of people coming from the lower middle class strata of the society.

This breed is more interested in self-advancement and climbing the social ladder than in any sublime grand strategic heroic venture like a coup against their chief.

Their ultimate coup is getting a good Annual Confidential Report and getting promoted to the next rank. After all, Claus Von Stauffenberg, a German colonel who had placed a bomb in Hitler's bunker to kill him, was an aristocrat.

Vladimir Lenin, who led the Red Army to victory in the Russian Civil War, before establishing the world's first officially socialist state, and Mao Zedong, who led the Long March to victory in the Chinese Civil War, were both from the more well-off classes which is not the case with the Pakistani officers.

A majority of them comes from humble backgrounds, thus socially conservative and narrow in outlook. Therefore, there is hardly any chance of a "Colonels coup" against Kayani who is already trying hard to restore the wounded pride of his Army by adopting an anti-US stance.

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 110622.htm

Shaashtanga · Post by **Shaashtanga** » 23 Jun 2011 07:31

joygoswami wrote:Lt.Col Ralph Peters, a Fox News analyst says Pak Army are Terror Junkies

http://video.foxnews.com/v/995428740001 ... s-an-ally/

Loved the part in the end where BillÓ says "Bomb Pakistan, not with drones but bombers out of Bagram" ..... InshaAllah indeed....

Shaashtanga · Post by **Shaashtanga** » 23 Jun 2011 07:36

Dus percenti in his recent speech was trying to do == not just with India but with Britinaistan (regarding abysmal load shedding in pukistan) but Najam Sheddy here in his latest Apas ki Baat episode does the "there is no == here coz India is eons ahead of nutty nation in terms of economic growth and nutty nation is 12th on the list of failed states"

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 23 Jun 2011 07:46

Bah what najam sethi. Here is Suhasini Haider in full == mode in the Chindu

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/ar ... epage=true

Kashmir step by step: the next round of talks

India needs to understand that the absence of violence in the Kashmir Valley is not peace, and that development and dignity for all Kashmiris go hand in hand. Pakistan must recognise that violence will never bring peace for Kashmiris, and will imperil all Pakistanis.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Jun 2011 08:02

CRamS wrote:
ramana wrote:Asma Jehangir Urges Civilians to Challenge Army

The Abortabad raid was a strategic defeat for the TSPA. I don't think massa wanted it that way but things take a course of their own once initiated. The double whammy was the PNS Mehran raid by whoever.
Indeed. I think TSP lost its OBL trump card to milk its usefulness as an all-lie, and with that things started coming downhill. I mean think about it, if TSP would have sacrificed OBL in the glare of CNN/Fox thick in the middle of 2012 US presedential election season, can you imagine the strategic benefits TSP would have reaped? Those dreams came crashing down, an entire TSP investment down the tubes. Hence the huge heartburn.

CRS, When US took out OBL for whatever reasons they also took out TSPA H&D. Without understanding that they did. Now we see the slow unravelling of the TSP Kabila.
All the unfairs and unevens didnt/couldnt out Humpty Dumpty together again.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 23 Jun 2011 08:16

Manny wrote:
Jaspreet wrote:Does anyone remember what Pakistani newspapers used to say around 11-12 years ago? They used to call India the sick man of South Asia. One article said that for India to be "accepted in the comity of nations" she has to do this and that (basically, hand over Kashmir to the greatest civilization of South Asia). What a difference a decade makes!
Seriously? Got any links to those? I'd love to read em.

Not 12 years ago. 12 years ago the pakis were getting their H&D handed to them at the end of a stick by Colin Powell. May have been forty fifty years ago, pre 1971. Indian economic reforms of early 1990's were beginning to show extraorduinary results by 2000.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 23 Jun 2011 08:35

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_pa ... ni_1558018

Pakistan's future depends on Kashmir: Prime Minister Gilani

A day ahead of the crucial India-Pakistan talks that will feature the Kashmir issue, Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani today said his country's future was "closely linked with the resolution of the Kashmir dispute".

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Jun 2011 08:36

anupmisra wrote:
Not 12 years ago. 12 years ago the pakis were getting their H&D handed to them at the end of a stick by Colin Powell. May have been forty fifty years ago, pre 1971. Indian economic reforms of early 1990's were beginning to show extraorduinary results by 2000.

No Anup. Articles speaking of India as the sick man were there in the 80s and 90s. Neither 50 years ago nor as recently as 12 years ago. In 1993 a Paki I met in the UK boasted of how the Pakistani Rupee was stronger than the Indian Rupee. But this was a general trend. In 1985 a Malaysian Chinese guy spoke glowingly of his country's "Proton" cars and asked if India had produced one original car. In the early 80s - India was fair game for criticism from both Sri Lankans and Pakis I met in the UK. Sri Lankans rapidly became "normal" after their civil war.

But I do believe that it was Pakistanis successful biratherliness with the USA that gave them the media support in addition to the financial and military support to be contemptuous of India

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Jun 2011 08:37

Anindya wrote:http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_pa ... ni_1558018

Pakistan's future depends on Kashmir: Prime Minister Gilani

A day ahead of the crucial India-Pakistan talks that will feature the Kashmir issue, Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani today said his country's future was "closely linked with the resolution of the Kashmir dispute".

Gilani is parroting the Army line.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 23 Jun 2011 08:46

Prof. Fair attempts to take down Christopher Hitchens:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/c-christi ... 81256.html

A critique of Fair by Acorn:
http://acorn.nationalinterest.in/2011/0 ... ns-v-fair/

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Jun 2011 08:47

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home ... 953369.cms

Pakistan, 50 years ago
Hajrah Mumtaz | Jun 23, 2011, 12.00am IST

Having been occupied with compiling the '50 years ago' section, i have recently spent hours trawling through Dawn's 1961 editions. It is a fascinating, yet ultimately, a deeply saddening experience.

The Dawn of those days was a slimmer volume, with a format different to what it is today. The first thing to strike me was the advertising. If any of you have the impression that the Forhans toothpaste advertisement hasn't changed in years, you're right: it hasn't changed in decades. Much of the advertising content is pretty much what it is today: soaps, talcum powders and so on. There are some glaring differences, though.

Advertisements for dances, cabarets, acrobatic performances and balls - how alien they seem in the modern Pakistani landscape. Karachi was reasonably important on the international landscape, and references in western literature of the time reflect an exotic Orientalism that still exists in reference to, for example, Mumbai. And so, the city often hosted world-class performers and entertainers, as to a somewhat lesser extent did Lahore.

No doubt to other people in my age group, the children of Zia, these advertisements would hold more meaning than as mere curiosities reminiscent of different times.

The ad about dinner and drinks with live dance performances at the Beach Luxury, or sister acrobats Klaudia and Karla (pictured in short, frilled skirts) at the Metropole, talk not of different times but, indeed, of a different country. Such acts have not been tolerated in Pakistan for upwards of three decades - the lifespan of an entire generation.

Even before Pakistan involved itself in America's duplicitous 'war on terror', which is when the situation really went into freefall, Klaudia and Karla could not have performed here. It was the Nawaz Sharif government, after all, which banned men with long hair on television. And Zia who dictated that all women appearing on television should have their heads covered at all times, so that it would appear to audiences that they went to bed and woke up in the morning wearing their modesty firmly on their heads.

Is the tragedy greater for those who knew such a Pakistan and then watched it die? Or is it greater for those, the people who are nearing middle-age now or younger, who never saw it at all and learnt to find their way through an increasingly complicated maze of fundamentalism and repression?

In the 1960s, there was such a place as East Pakistan. We all know this, all of us having grown up with the haunting knowledge of the country that once was. But it is different to trawl through the newspapers of that time and see the Dacca dateline.

Hindsight brings clarity. It is easy, now, to read between the lines and see which way the wind would have to blow. In 1961, a decade before Bangladesh was born in blood and tears, Dawn has reports about people asking that Bengali be accorded greater status, questions of disproportionate spending and contributions to the national exchequer. Knowing what we know, it is easy to detect a certain parochialism in the debate of the time.

Going through all these newspapers, i am left with the impression of the Pakistan of the early 60s as a place with hope, its life stretching out before it fresh and untarnished - a country that was going places. Dawn's editions from those days are full of plans: the second five-year plan was going into action, factories and industries were being set up, schemes were being formulated for the uplift and education of the rural poor in both wings of the country.

It is sobering to realise that back then, a new plan announced by the administration could not have been met with anything near the sort of cynicism with which it is received today, with people having learnt the lessons dictated by decades of failure. Fifty years ago, schemes to irrigate agricultural land in Wana and Miramshah were under way, and schools were being set up. Jute mills were being set up in East Pakistan. Women's vocational centres were being set up seemingly all over the place. Fifty years ago, PIA had just launched its inaugural flight to New York and was one of the most successful young airlines of the time.

It's easy to see things clearly in hindsight. Today, we can see that a number of the cancers that are tearing Pakistan apart now had already taken root, even back in 1961. The first military foray into civilian affairs had taken place, the country's first prime minister had been assassinated and, over a decade later, no responsibility had been affixed (the irony being that the Rawalpindi park named in his honour was, just over 50 years later, to become the site where yet another prime minister was murdered, to be followed by yet another failed inquiry), a number of deeply flawed policies and mindsets had already been adopted.

But back then, could anybody have guessed the disastrous trajectory that the country was to take? From my vantage point of the present, because i am a rather fanciful person, i get the impression of the Pakistan of that time revelling in its newfound freedoms, irresponsible as a teenager - unaware of the horror its decisions would bring, dancing heedless into a future full of murder.

That was then, this is now. The past, it would appear, really is another country.

From the Dawn, Pakistan. The writer is a member of its staff.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Jun 2011 08:50

old timers like shiv and ramana might support this view that up until mid 1980s (when most of us were in shorts or unborn), Pak was performing better economically on the back of american funds, low population pressure, western media support, a dapper military might and so on....

but lack of investment in pop control, education, land reform and industry finally broke the camels back. there is no pretense and dikhawa now...its no use

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Jun 2011 08:56

ramana wrote:When US took out OBL for whatever reasons they also took out TSPA H&D. Without understanding that they did.

I see the possibility of some interesting piskology here but I will never be able to prove it. Pakistanis successfully ingratiated themselves to a series of white US presidents because Pakistanis have no hesitation in behaving servile to a rich white man. I am certain they didn't behave right with Obama and it is likely that their attitude to Obama may have been like that of racist Americans. I would expect Pakis to imagine that they are almost American by virtue of their obsequious behavior toward white Americans and the resulting kindness they have got. Recall how Dubya went out of his way to declare Pakistan a most favored non NATO ally? That was the most stinking snake oil ever.

That did not work with Obama who behaved in a manner moe in keeping with US interests than all those earlier white Presidents who joined up the biradari game with Pakis. Because they were white they were accepted right in these in Pakistani biradaris. And they loved it - so when Pakistani held a gun to their own heads these Americans did not have the heart to tell Pakistanis to shoot themselves. They mollycoddled them instead. Ombaba was the first American to be able to tell them to stuff it.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Jun 2011 09:00

Hugh Tinker's "India and Pakistan", Emma Duncan's "Breaking the Curfew" give very good snapshots of early decades till 90s.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 23 Jun 2011 09:02

TSPA seems to be going on a Rampage against Pashtoons, Plenty of utube videos phloating around....something is brewing... Am planning to take FRiday off to watch Diwali in Pukisthan...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvbaEKVI ... re=related
**I still cannot Embed an Utube video?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Jun 2011 09:10

Singha wrote:old timers like shiv and ramana might support this view that up until mid 1980s (when most of us were in shorts or unborn), Pak was performing better economically on the back of american funds, low population pressure, western media support, a dapper military might and so on....

but lack of investment in pop control, education, land reform and industry finally broke the camels back. there is no pretense and dikhawa now...its no use

Actually Singha Pakistan even then had all the problems it had now. But they denied it and whatever RAPE said was accepted as the truth. Pakistan was failed/failing back then too. It was only after India started pulling ahead, and Pakistan's importance as a cold war ally became less important that Pakistans problems started spilling out. Even so - the fact that Pakistan was sponsoring terrorism from 1980something to 2001 was ignored until 9-11. Pakistan's internal situation started getting Western governmental attention only after 9-11.

In other words it's not right to say Pakistan was fine till the 1980s and went down from there. Pakistan was never fine. It was in bad shape in the 1960s when US aid kept it afloat. But Pakistan hid behind the "India is far worse and Soth Asia's problems==India". Pakistan got worse in 1971, but India was still bad. Pakistan was supported again by the US from 1979 to 1990 and its internal dysfunctionality ignored. 1990 to 2001 Pakistan survived on drug money from Af Pak and Ummah aid. That was the time India came out of slumber.

But all Pakistan's problems had to catch up sometime and that is happening now. If India suddenly went bad today, nobody would even talk about Pakistan.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 23 Jun 2011 09:13

http://www.dawn.com/2011/06/23/obama-sa ... -2012.html

Obama also vowed the United States will “insist” Pakistan fulfill its promises to counter militant sanctuaries on its soil.

“We will work with the Pakistani government to root out the cancer of violent extremism, and we will insist that it keep its commitments,” he said.

Obama’s comments underscored festering tensions between Washington and Islamabad in the wake of a unilateral US raid that killed Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden in his hideout in Pakistan last month.

In blunt language, Obama made clear he was ready to order more assaults against any safe-havens harboring those who aimed to kill Americans.

“For there should be no doubt that so long as I am president, the United States will never tolerate a safe-haven for those who aim to kill us: they cannot elude us, nor escape the justice they deserve,” he said.

I wonder wheter we can believe Obama's 'insist" has a better chance than a snowball in hell. The chinis will definitely get more involved.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 23 Jun 2011 09:15

^^^ Yes, what has changed and only in the recent few years is that equal-equal with India has been stripped away, and Pakistan is now visible in its ugly, vicious Pakistaniyat.