India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 23 Jun 2011 11:54

vera_k wrote: The US consulates in India don't even claim to entertain phone enquiries. But they respond to email pretty quick.

Which US consulate in India responds to your email enquiries? I have never heard of an instance where the consulates in India respond to emails. Have you heard of "security clearance" lists where things go into a blackhole and nothing is known till you get an update? Many cases take 2-3 months and some even a year. You can email all you like, no shit is gonna happen.

Mort, Indian embassies and consulates are not perfect. But it is a travesty to brand them as what you like because they are not there at your beck and call. Just because you are Indian origin does nt mean you get two crowns on your head, do you? Have you heard of a 450$ fee to renunciate your massa citizenship? Why is 200$ not a fair amount and why should the Indian embassy choose to be nice to you or anyone else and reduce it cos many of them wail and moan?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 23 Jun 2011 12:11

^^

+1 Stan, too many Indians living in US seem to have an exaggerated sense of entitlement (among other things)

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 23 Jun 2011 12:18

Sanku wrote:^^

+1 Stan, too many Indians living in US seem to have an exaggerated sense of entitlement (among other things)

My, my. And what are these other things, exactly?

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 23 Jun 2011 12:18

Bruce Riedel on the ticking time bomb next door and India-US relations in that context.

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 110623.htm

Talks about US-India doing a contingency planning in case the next '911' strikes India. Says India will look to a military option like the US does from 30k feet in the air. As i said earlier i think US is preparing for a contingency (with India's involvement) in case of Porkistan goes even deeper into the sewers.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 23 Jun 2011 12:19

5. If you are an Indian citizen in the US and loose your passport, it is a pain in the ass to get it replaced even though you have the passport number and copies. NO ONE at the consulate will help you.

What exactly is the problem? What help do you need when everything is well laid out in english? Go to any consulate webpage and the instructions are clearly there. Is it a hassle to have a case filed and the local police authorities give you a case number? If it is such a hassle, dont loose your passport. It is not your property anyway.

7. Applying for an Indian visitor visa in person is a major pain in the ass and can waste your entire day, but apparently they offer this counter service, why? Just ask everyone to deposit applications, documents and fees with Travisa.

Many countries require you to go personally and get a visa stamped in the passport. You lose one day at work and everything about Indian consulates are wrong?

1. Data mining argument is disingenuous.

As disingenuous as it is for massa consulates to detect and track people such as md. atta. Why cant they still do that? Do you think every terror suspect that is possible who applies for a US visa gets tracked and there are zero sleeper cells in massa? You must be in cloud cuckoo land if you believed that. Get Rule no 0 right: there are always enough dedicated people who can break any system. Rule no 1: you can only contain, not prevent.

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 23 Jun 2011 12:20

X-posted from TSP thread:

Lt. Col. Ralph Peters: Stop Pretending Pakistan is an Ally

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 23 Jun 2011 12:51

UBanerjee wrote:
Sanku wrote:^^

+1 Stan, too many Indians living in US seem to have an exaggerated sense of entitlement (among other things)
My, my. And what are these other things, exactly?

Of being successful for another. Or knowing more, esp for some in the the pre 90s generation. Quite easily obvious to Indians who stayed in India, the folks afflicted themselves dont see it or get touchy on the subject.

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 23 Jun 2011 12:58

Sanku wrote:
UBanerjee wrote:
My, my. And what are these other things, exactly?
Of being successful for another. Or knowing more, esp for some in the the pre 90s generation. Quite easily obvious to Indians who stayed in India, the folks afflicted themselves dont see it or get touchy on the subject.

How kind of you to grace us with the fruits of your superior powers of observation

Having observed your "style" for more than a couple of years, I am not in the least surprised at this latest FUD. Those who deal in dark little hint-dropping rarely have much of value to impart.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 23 Jun 2011 13:07

UBanerjee wrote:
Sanku wrote: Of being successful for another. Or knowing more, esp for some in the the pre 90s generation. Quite easily obvious to Indians who stayed in India, the folks afflicted themselves dont see it or get touchy on the subject.
How kind of you to grace us with the fruits of your superior powers of observation

Having observed your "style" for more than a couple of years, I am not in the least surprised at this latest FUD. Those who deal in dark little hint-dropping rarely have much of value to impart.

Taking it personally are we? The characterization became too accurate for comfort ? Interesting, thanks for coming forward on your own and sharing.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 23 Jun 2011 13:08

UBanerjee wrote:X-posted from TSP thread:

Lt. Col. Ralph Peters: Stop Pretending Pakistan is an Ally

Any way of getting Ralph Peters into the White House?

No, I mean seriously is there a possibility of getting Ralph Peters to be the National Security Advisor? Is the Indian Lobby in the USA powerful enough to sway something like this?

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 23 Jun 2011 13:11

Stan_Savljevic wrote:Which US consulate in India responds to your email enquiries? I have never heard of an instance where the consulates in India respond to emails.

I've had Mumbai respond to emails. Granted I haven't had occasion to use them in the last few years.

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 23 Jun 2011 13:16

Sanku wrote:
UBanerjee wrote:
How kind of you to grace us with the fruits of your superior powers of observation

Having observed your "style" for more than a couple of years, I am not in the least surprised at this latest FUD. Those who deal in dark little hint-dropping rarely have much of value to impart.
Taking it personally are we? The characterization became too accurate for comfort ? Interesting, thanks for coming forward on your own and sharing.

I love it, posing the rhetorical question ("so, did you stop beating your wife yet?") then comes the "interesting, thanks for sharing" worthy of the Therapist himself. Truly a master class in the art of dropping sinister hints.

But alright, this is the last from me; feel free to keep at it.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 23 Jun 2011 13:24

UBanerjee wrote: But alright, this is the last from me; feel free to keep at it.

I didnt realize that I needed your permission kind Sir. Thank you, I WILL keep at it.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 23 Jun 2011 17:09

Stan_Savljevic wrote:
vera_k wrote: The US consulates in India don't even claim to entertain phone enquiries. But they respond to email pretty quick.
Which US consulate in India responds to your email enquiries? I have never heard of an instance where the consulates in India respond to emails. Have you heard of "security clearance" lists where things go into a blackhole and nothing is known till you get an update? Many cases take 2-3 months and some even a year. You can email all you like, no shit is gonna happen.

Mort, Indian embassies and consulates are not perfect. But it is a travesty to brand them as what you like because they are not there at your beck and call. Just because you are Indian origin does nt mean you get two crowns on your head, do you? Have you heard of a 450$ fee to renunciate your massa citizenship? Why is 200$ not a fair amount and why should the Indian embassy choose to be nice to you or anyone else and reduce it cos many of them wail and moan?

No one is asking them to be perfect or be nice, just be consistent and post the rules. It has become better with Travisa screening visa applications, but if they have your passport for a longer than normal quoted time, then at least acknowledge receipt. The reality is there are many families who travel to India regularly over a period of years and decades. These account for a significant portion of visa applications and it's pretty easy to sort these applicants out and even more so looking at names and their port of entry. Why is it these people are given more of a hassle than a Headley or Rana?

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 23 Jun 2011 19:58

Arjun wrote:Doesn't the IFS warn its diplomats about potential dangers to watch out for in every country of posting? I would have thought this kind of stuff that Dayal indulged in would be Item #1 in the 'Do Not Do' list of any self-respecting foreign service.

Unless there is no basis whatsoever to the maid's claims - not only Dayal but also senior heads in the IFS should roll.

There will always be arrogant chamachas defending arrogant diplomats but it seems that the kind of "stuff that Dayal allegedly indulged" was of concern to Indian authorities...
According to this WSJ item

The allegations against Mr. Dayal come at a time when the MEA has been seeking to clamp down on domestic misbehavior by its diplomats. In January, India’s foreign secretary Nirupama Rao issued a statement to all heads of missions warning all possible wrongdoers of stern punishment, according to NDTV’s web site.

“The ministry will deal with incidents of sexual misconduct and domestic violence with zero tolerance and will take punitive measures against offending officials,” Ms. Rao said in the statement. “Any act of domestic violence or sexual misconduct will necessitate immediate recall of the officer and his dependents,” it added.

From the same story, according to S. Chandrasekharan, director of the South Asia Analysis Group: this episode is:

a “diplomatic embarrassment” for India.

Meanwhile, I don't know how many people saw the video clip where Mr. Dayal is talkint to the press and said something to the effect:

She was my domestic SERVANT ... (and charges by here are malicious, and baseless etc..

(He tried to correct "servant" to "assistant" later

Of course, for some BRF jingo's any suggestion other that "let's mistreat some American diplomats and their family ... cause nothing else will work " will start a jhihad of throwing mud on any comment here by a non-believers ..

Sheesh ..

.. How cruel and evil is for ordinarily janata to expect that some one actually perform the duties... he/she is paid for .....
. like doing the NORMAL duties like passport and visa services.../disgust/

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 23 Jun 2011 20:32

Stan_Savljevic wrote:Which US consulate in India responds to your email enquiries? I have never heard of an instance where the consulates in India respond to emails.

I'm sure you have not heard about this, but for any one else this is not unusual.. I have called US consulates on phone or email (including in India) and every time they were very helpful .. responded promptly and some times went out of their way to be helpful.... Once, as I said a few post(s) above called early Sunday morning after my passport was stolen, and they not only answered the phone, they helped me by sending some one to the airport...

Of course being nice and professional is not restricted to one group or one nationality ..and, of course, most Indians are professional.

Folks, BTW, even NY consul's did emailed (and sent me a copy by mail) to me,( but only after a written complaint (and a phone call to the ambassador) to the Washington Embassy), with apology, and promise to improve the system and did inform me that they always take care of e-mail inquires promptly... Now if it was none of their fault.. why did they promise to improve the system.. .

This was about 4 years ago.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 23 Jun 2011 21:14

Amber G. wrote: I'm sure you have not heard about this, but for any one else this is not unusual.. I have called US consulates on phone or email (including in India) and every time they were very helpful .. responded promptly

Read the question again. How many Indian citizens who contact the US consulates in India get a prompt response? Is that logic so hard to get?

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 23 Jun 2011 21:32

Stan_Savljevic wrote:

5. If you are an Indian citizen in the US and loose your passport, it is a pain in the ass to get it replaced even though you have the passport number and copies. NO ONE at the consulate will help you.

What exactly is the problem? What help do you need when everything is well laid out in english? Go to any consulate webpage and the instructions are clearly there. Is it a hassle to have a case filed and the local police authorities give you a case number? If it is such a hassle, dont loose your passport. It is not your property anyway.

.

Brilliant! Wow! Really???..Couldn't have done better to describe the attitude of these guys.

What's next? Doctors telling "it's your fault you got sick?"

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Jun 2011 21:34

Can we please discuss the Indian Embassy issues in the Indian Foreign Policy thread as that is specific to MEA scope of things?

Thanks, ramana

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Jun 2011 21:47

The Rajaratnam case, the Infosys H1 visa issues, the Indian diplomats getting into trouble all these are distrubing images of a model minority in US. Its time for introspection. The economic downturn is forcing the other side of America to come out and its important that the the community is mindful of the image they project.

In 1980 there was gathering of Indian-American older/younger people at Rutgers where the future prospects of the community was discussed. It had the usual engineers, a few lawyers, lots of doctors and unusual for such gatherings a few social scientists from utys. A lady prof from Rutgers was very eloquent and prescient on the future path and how the community has to take up outreach to ensure there is little heartburn in the larger society. She based it on her research on immigrant communities in US. By and large I followed her advise.

Looks like the new technology boom and the rise of India has dimmed that prespective.

I haven't heard of another such gathering since a long time. Nowadays its moslty regional language based gatherings and very partisan to boot.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 23 Jun 2011 22:01

Stan_Savljevic wrote:
Amber G. wrote: I'm sure you have not heard about this, but for any one else this is not unusual.. I have called US consulates on phone or email (including in India) and every time they were very helpful .. responded promptly
Read the question again. How many Indian citizens who contact the US consulates in India get a prompt response? Is that logic so hard to get?

Read the post carefully.
1. - The person receiving email or phone does not know the citizenship of the caller/sender. Point is answer is prompt and respectful.
2. - Yes, Even as an Indian citizen, I have had NO trouble reaching US consulate in India.
3. - Assumption that what you "heard" or "not heard" or what "you assume" is universally true is not correct.
4. - A priory assumption and narrative that when, say a person who lost a passport and asks consulate to help, is doing all that just to demonize the consulate is beyond pale.

Hope that helps. /sigh/

Gentle readers - Harassing and treating the people rudely, who had asked noting more than most basic services which are supposed to be given by a consulate , and then making excuses for them and demonizing the people who as much as comment about these consulates is just beyond silly.

The fact is even the Indian Embassy and other officials have acknowledged that this problem exists with certain staff, and trying to improve the system.

Even if there is a long line in front of US consulate in India , it should not be an excuse to harass the ordinary person who approaches an Indian Consulate for help (and make NO mistake about this, some times it is just harassment)..and assumption by some here that it is always the person who is asking for help is arrogant/rude/asks_too_much is beyond pale.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 23 Jun 2011 22:11

ramana wrote:Can we please discuss the Indian Embassy issues in the Indian Foreign Policy thread as that is specific to MEA scope of things?

Thanks, ramana

For some of the issues, I think that is the best place... but some issues may fall into scope of this thread. Given that Indian Diplomatic staff is in some respect 'public face' of India -- what they do (or do not do) are relevant to India/US relations..such as harassment of Indians (specifically Diplomats) and matters related to that..are of importance...As you said Passport related matters are in MEA scope but how Indian diplomatic staff is perceived in US (Or US diplomatic staff in India) may belong here.. JMHO.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 23 Jun 2011 22:17

Amber G. wrote: Even if there is a long line in front of US consulate in India , it should not be an excuse to harass the ordinary person who approaches an Indian Consulate for help (and make NO mistake about this, some times it is just harassment)...

Yes, the US consulates can harass anyone who applies for a US visa to hell and back, and if some other country makes their visas pricey and unobtanium, that is god-awful and condemnable.

Passport IS government property (you lose it and you go through the steps indicated in the consulate webpage) -- if you did nt know that, whose fault is that? Visa is NOT a right or a basic service. Not just Indian visa, any VISA to even a two bit country is given at the discretion of the consular authorities. If you have been harassed while applying for a visa to India, bad luck. For your story, there are more than enough in India who go through the pita of an amrikan visa.

And yes, WSJ is always that unbiased agmark-brand news source on any matter. They have no axe to grind. In Indian english, servant is the same as assistant. Just because all ye amrikans have found an euphemism to be politically correct, you dont get the moral gumption to preach to humanity and beyond.

PS: And when you send an email to the Indian embassy/consulate, dont you tell what your problem/case history is? Wont you mention that you are applying for a visa? Why would you need to apply for a visa if you are a citizen? Do you think IQ-freezes read your email?

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 23 Jun 2011 22:19

Amber G. wrote: Gentle readers - Harassing and treating the people rudely, who had asked noting more than most basic services which are supposed to be given by a consulate , and then making excuses for them and demonizing the people who as much as comment about these consulates is just beyond silly.

The fact is even the Indian Embassy and other officials have acknowledged that this problem exists with certain staff, and trying to improve the system.

Even if there is a long line in front of US consulate in India , it should not be an excuse to harass the ordinary person who approaches an Indian Consulate for help (and make NO mistake about this, some times it is just harassment)..and assumption by some here that it is always the person who is asking for help is arrogant/rude/asks_too_much is beyond pale.

Indian Visa is a privilege, not a right.

Indian citizens face ten times more issues & contempt with the US consulates than the US citizens with Indian consulates.

Heard of keeping passport for ten months, yes ten months for security check?? and the only answer we get is "it is in processing". Happened to a very close friend of mine for five months, know cases for ten months. Not knowing whether the passport is even in safe keeping all through this time, losing working jobs and not able to go for other oppurtunities in any other countries. All the harrowing time of how to explain this humiliation, torture, harrassment from US consulate to managers- know it from first hand.

And US citizens think coming to Indian consulate for one day is a "pain in the a$$"

.

So yup, suck it up. We have it much much worse over in India. This == for US consulates and Indian consulates reminds me of yup the same "Pakistan == India".

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 23 Jun 2011 22:55

Are PIOs and OCI's being MUTU here? These folks opted for the first world benefits of the US when they chose to give up Indian citizenship and are more accustomed to a quality of service that a developed country can afford. Embassy services of a developing country like India are par for the course i.e they operate under "Jitni Chadar Utne Hi Paon Failaye" (The Spread of your legs is defined by the boundries of your bedsheet). If visitors to India find this bothersome then they can choose not to visit the country. No one forced you to travel to India. The Indian embassies quality of service will get better as we prosper and the demand for quality increases but until then "thoda dheeraj dhare" (have patience).

Ps: Personal anecdote of the one time I dealt with Indian Consulate in NYC. It took me 20 mins of repeated calling before I got a human on the line. But once the person came on, she was an eptiome of help. She walked me through the proper procedures and did an excellent job as expected of an embassy employee. The procedure itself was supposed to take a week but I had my document back in 5 days. So 4 thumbs up for the quality of service.

Besides the Indian consulate employees also hold camps and travel out of state to help OCIs, PIOs and NRI Indians with their travel documents etc. I do not know of any other country that provides such services to its current and ex-citizens.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 23 Jun 2011 23:23

The WSJ article about Nirupama Rao sending out message about zero tolerance regarding sexual abuse was due to a case where an Indian diplomat misbehaved on an AI flight, and another Indian diplomat who noticed this complained.

To club that case with the current domestic assistant/servant issue is disingenuous. The person in this case appeared to have worked with the diplomat even in Morocco. If she was as abused as she makes out to be, she could have refused to come to US and work for him. Looks like there is more to the story than what she claims

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 23 Jun 2011 23:27

ravi_ku wrote: Indian Visa is a privilege, not a right.

Indian citizens face ten times more issues & contempt with the US consulates than the US citizens with Indian consulates.

Heard of keeping passport for ten months, yes ten months for security check?? and the only answer we get is "it is in processing". Happened to a very close friend of mine for five months, know cases for ten months. Not knowing whether the passport is even in safe keeping all through this time, losing working jobs and not able to go for other oppurtunities in any other countries. All the harrowing time of how to explain this humiliation, torture, harrassment from US consulate to managers- know it from first hand.

And US citizens think coming to Indian consulate for one day is a "pain in the a$$" .

So yup, suck it up. We have it much much worse over in India. This == for US consulates and Indian consulates reminds me of yup the same "Pakistan == India".

And don't forget the rude and condescending attitude of the US consular officials. They treat each one as though they are trying to get into US and stay there indefinitely. Their haughty and dismissive attitude is worse than anyone else. Even canadian consulates are a little better compared to the US ones. The US consulates take the cake in terms of being rude and inconsiderate. I have seen that this boorish behavior is not only in India, but also in US consulates in Canada too, when I went there a couple of times to get my visa stamped.

And getting visa stamped at US consulates too is more than one day's job. At least in Indian consulates in US, you can send documents by mail and you will get visa within a week. I got my son's PIO card within three weeks from Indian consulate in SFO. But in US consulates, you have to go in person. And they give more appointments than they can handle, causing people to stand for long hours in queues. When my wife went to get her H4 visa stamped in Chennai, they wouldn't allow anyone in along with the applicant. My wife went in at 11:30AM and came out at 4:30PM. She said that there were long lines like the one in Tirupati

. There was no fan or a/c for most of the lines and only when they finally entered the office was their ac. And then, they send you the passport home by courier.

In US consulates in canada, you need to submit your passport in person for getting visa stamped, and wait for at least two days to pick it up.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 23 Jun 2011 23:39

Look, the Indian consulates don't have to bend over backward to accommodate a non-citizen, but at least ACKNOWLEDGE receipt of paperwork. Once it leaves Travisa for the consulates, Travisa is no longer responsible. If it takes too long to issue a visa, then simply deny it and move on. The consulates promise fast service at the counter, and so one gets the impression its better to get a visa in person. Why don't they just say "follow the process and submit through Travisa"? The Indian consulates in the US suck ass. Period. Do the US consulates in India suck? They sure do and I have experienced it first hand in Bombay! What I fail to understand is why people on this forum compare the Indian consulate to the US consulates. Its a fcuking paki mentality comparing yourself to the other pigs in the gutter.

As far as renunciation goes, this was a new requirement years after someone gave up their Indian citizenship and had traveled to India on a US passport dozens of time before. This is fine too when applying for a new Indian visa, but common sense should prevail when the person has traveled many times before and can not get original documents from India. I always tell people to get their act together and have their paperwork in order exactly as the CGIs state whether they are an Indian or US citizen, but the Indian consulates seem disinterested in its own citizens or PIOs because they know full well that these people will travel to India regardless of the service they provide due to family concerns. I don't have clear proof, but it seems they treat the gora people better applying for visas.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 23 Jun 2011 23:47

putnanja wrote: They treat each one as though they are trying to get into US and stay there indefinitely.

For good reasons. Cause it is true for the most part. People are breaking the doors to come to the US.

"Satyameva Jayathi" or "Truth always triumphs"

My nephew when he got admissions here for grad school was all excited and nervous about getting his Visa from Chennai. Once he got his Visa, he came over and then less than 6 months later, he was bad mouthing America when he came home (not unlike some Nepalis and Tibetans who do that living in India). I basically told him to STFU and gave him the smack down. A typical lefti desi who would love to come to America but constantly bad mouths it. He has since stopped saying crap in front of me.

Last year, I was in New Delhi, An old college buddy of mine took me to a swanky club in Lodhi road and he introduced me to two women. One a Mallu woman who owned a christian school in Green Park and another a Bengali professor from Delhi University. Once they knew I was from the US, they went on and on about how bad America was and they hated the fact that that I did not join them with their Ameri bashing. They were also so speaking in support of the Maoist movement in India. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. After we driving back, my friend told me that school principle was none other than that NDTV NY correspondent Sarah Jacob's mom.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 23 Jun 2011 23:50

Mort ji,

PIOs are NOT indian citizens. The consulates are not for serving them. They are for serving Indian citizens.

THat they serve PIOs doesnt mean that PIOs start thinking it is their right to have it served by the Indian consulates. PIOs have NO service rights in Indian consulates.

PIOs do not pay any taxes to India. These services are a courtesy being extended by India to them. When they gave up the Indian passport and opted for US ones, sorry to say they have lost at that moment all their rights from India govt.

Indian govt is extending courtesies to PIOs. Dont confuse them with rights.

If coming to the consulate for fr*cking 1 day is considered harassment, I have no idea what to say.

rajithn · Post by **rajithn** » 23 Jun 2011 23:52

Citizens of other countries, by virtue of being of Indian origin, have a sense of entitlement when it comes to dealing with the indian consulates and embassies. As far as I am concerned, they gave up their citizenship of India voluntarily and heppily took up the citizenship of their adopted country. By giving up the citizenship they have given up all privileges of being Indian.
These very same people would not have had trouble standing in line for days and weeks, providing their family horoscope if asked for - when they applied for their "foriegn" citizenship. But when Indian rules demand a certain document or a specific waiting time, then they start whinging.
I have experienced foriegn consulates/embassies and I have also had numerous dealings with Indian consulates/embassies in other countries.
None of the foriegn consulates have any service worth writing home about - its the same dour faced bureaucrat with the same level of arrogance and in some cases appalling levels of inefficiency. [Try the U.S, French, Saudi and Italian consulates/embassies]
As far as the Indian consulates/embassies are concerned, they do a good job considering the kind of people they have to deal with most of the time. I commend them. There are stray cases of mis-behavior and mis-management but these are just that: stray cases.
Anecdotal evidence: My wife and I wanted to get a document attested and the consular officer who took the document from us told us to wait for 15 minutes. My wife and I were seated in the waiting lounge and in the midst of our conversation forgot about having to collect the attested document. The consular officer happened to walk by and he asked us why we havent received the document yet considering he had attested it right then. And in another instance, I got my passport back (when I had applied for an additional booklet) so that I could travel on business. All I had to do was turn in my passport after I returned.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 23 Jun 2011 23:53

If visitors to India find this bothersome then they can choose not to visit the country. No one forced you to travel to India.

That is exactly right. The tourism and business money are bothersome too. The reality is, GoI is willing to harass their own citizens and PIOs before they even dare be rude to a westerner.

rajithn · Post by **rajithn** » 23 Jun 2011 23:56

@Mort: This is no comparison.

Can the Indian consulates/embassies be better? Of course they can. Just like anything else..improve, review and then improve.

I believe the issue here is that the very "indians" who dont have an issue bending over backwards (and then some) at foriegn consulates/embassies have all this bluster when it comes to following the Indian consulate/embassy rules or requirements.

Case in point: the number of complaints that went in to all Indian consulates/embassy in the U.S when they started charging people who had not turned in their Indian passports after obtaining foriegn citizenship. These guys had a grace time of 3 years to surrender their Indian passports. Guess what? They did not. I know one ******** who actually claims to have trashed his Indian passport when he got his U.S passport. And guess what..he was one of the whingers. Would he or any of the others dare do this with their adopted country's rules/requirements?

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 23 Jun 2011 23:58

Mort Walker wrote: ...
What I fail to understand is why people on this forum compare the Indian consulate to the US consulates. Its a fcuking paki mentality comparing yourself to the other pigs in the gutter.
...
...

This comparision was made by some US citizen saying they got great service at US consulates in India compared to Indian consulates in US

Mort Walker wrote:I don't have clear proof, but it seems they treat the gora people better applying for visas.
...

Many goras apply through mail, and they do have all documents as you can get them easily in US. So they get visas faster.

I don't know about citizenship renunciation services, but visa and PIO services have been hassle-free. Ditto with most of my friends too

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 24 Jun 2011 00:01

ravi_ku wrote:Mort ji,

PIOs are NOT indian citizens. The consulates are not for serving them. They are for serving Indian citizens.

THat they serve PIOs doesnt mean that PIOs start thinking it is their right to have it served by the Indian consulates. PIOs have NO service rights in Indian consulates.

PIOs do not pay any taxes to India. These services are a courtesy being extended by India to them. When they gave up the Indian passport and opted for US ones, sorry to say they have lost at that moment all their rights from India govt.

Indian govt is extending courtesies to PIOs. Dont confuse them with rights.

If coming to the consulate for fr*cking 1 day is considered harassment, I have no idea what to say.

Then the consulates should NOT setup visa camps in neighboring US cities and promise fast service at the counter. This too is fine with me. The reality is the Indian diaspora is world wide and it is an asset. I think people on this forum confuse this with the yahoo PIOs who come back and pretend they are higher and mightier than those who stayed back home, and see this as a way of exacting revenge.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 24 Jun 2011 00:01

I have this strange feeling that there are plenty of America haters in India either because they were treated like cattle or they were denied a Visa.

LOL

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 24 Jun 2011 00:03

Mort Walker wrote:
If visitors to India find this bothersome then they can choose not to visit the country. No one forced you to travel to India.
That is exactly right. The tourism and business money are bothersome too. The reality is, GoI is willing to harass their own citizens and PIOs before they even dare be rude to a westerner.

Not really. We are believers of equal opportunity and are no less rude to westerners either. Only PIOs and OCIs who have lost their SDRE thick skin as soon as they acquired a US passport get offended by the Indian consulates behaviour and procedures. All NRIs with Indian passports expect poor quality or dare I say GOI level quality from Indian embassies and are more often than not pleasently surprised when things happen smoothly.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 24 Jun 2011 00:04

Manny wrote:I have this strange feeling that there are plenty of America haters in India either because they were treated like cattle or they were denied a Visa.

LOL

No, it is about toning down the MUTU expectations of PIOs.

We Indians whether in India or in Indian consulate are like this only. Now deal with it.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 24 Jun 2011 00:08

ravi_ku wrote:
Manny wrote:I have this strange feeling that there are plenty of America haters in India either because they were treated like cattle or they were denied a Visa.

LOL
No, it is about toning down the MUTU expectations of PIOs.

We Indians whether in India or in Indian consulate are like this only. Now deal with it.

I am not sure of the PIO. I went through the OIC process and it went very smoothly and since I have a "forever" visa stamped on my US Passport, I never have to deal with the Indian embassy anymore (Unless I commit the horrible sin of losing my passport anytime).

So not exactly sure what OICs and PIOs are expecting from the Indian embassy.

For all practicable purpose once you get it, there is no need to avail their service for anything.. and hence no impetus to show any attitude... I would think.

rajithn · Post by **rajithn** » 24 Jun 2011 00:09

Manny wrote:I have this strange feeling that there are plenty of America haters in India either because they were treated like cattle or they were denied a Visa.

LOL

Very mature come-back!

You need to realise that there are very many Indians who have lived and still live in the U.S and other countires, who have chosen NOT to give up their Indian citizenship.

You also need to realise that the issue is not with the U.S consulate/embassies etc. Its about PIOs complaining all the time about how they are treated when they visit the Indian consulate/embassies. It is annoying, at worst, when they do this "Ooooh, I am a <insert foriegn country here> Citizen of Indian origin and I want to visit SDRE India..so everyone needs to bend over backwards to "serve" me" whinging! Period!