Indian Navy and International Anti-Piracy Ops

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 22 Jun 2011 13:02

There was a Big Bad Soovar Captaining PNS Babur which tailed and intentionally brushed the INS Godavari

Babur Tried to Disrupt War Game
The Indian Express

Babur Tried to Disrupt War Game
Manu Pubby
Posted : Wed Jun 22 2011
New Delhi

The Pakistani Warship that triggered a diplomatic squabble between India and Pakistan ahead of the foreign secretary level talks is a ‘History-Sheeter’ that came dangerously close to Indian warships in the Arabian Sea Thrice in the Past Eight Months and Even Tried to Disrupt War Games being Conducted by the Indian Navy in International Waters.

Details have now emerged that show that the PNS Babur has a History of Aggressive Behaviour at sea and last Thursday’s incident when it brushed past the INS Godavari while escorting the MV Suez is the Third Time that it has Deliberately Taunted Indian Warships.

It is also Speculated that all Three Incidents are Related to the Captain of the Pakistani warship, Azhar Naeem, who Spent Three Years in the ISI Before Taking Charge of the Ship Recently.

Source said that the first incident was recorded in November last year when Indian warships were taking part in the Defence of Gujarat Exercise. The Babur came dangerously close and attempted to disrupt the war game.

The action was repeated in January when it attempted to interfere in war games in the Arabian Sea.

In both cases, the Babur breached the three mile distance that is followed by warships of both countries as part of CBMs. Sources said the Indian Navy lodged a complaint in both cases.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 22 Jun 2011 13:33

It is also Speculated that all Three Incidents are Related to the Captain of the Pakistani warship, Azhar Naeem, who Spent Three Years in the ISI Before Taking Charge of the Ship Recently.

So is the piracy connection now being unravelled?

Shame on the news channels

who now seem to dish out stuff without proper investigations. They should have contacted the MoD/IN before coming out with shrill statements about IN not doing anything and Pak doing everything. It pays to get both side of the story and present it as such.

Is Azhar Naseem a handler for the somali pirates?

As for the relatives, I can imagine them being emotionally distraught and clutching at straws. They do not have the wherewithall to cross check!

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 22 Jun 2011 13:35

saip wrote:Are sailors who r Indian citizens taxed by Indian Govt?

Saipji,

From what I remember about my old friends from the merchant navy, their income earned overseas is tax free.

abhishekm · Post by **abhishekm** » 22 Jun 2011 14:48

rajanb wrote:
It is also Speculated that all Three Incidents are Related to the Captain of the Pakistani warship, Azhar Naeem, who Spent Three Years in the ISI Before Taking Charge of the Ship Recently.
Is Azhar Naseem a handler for the somali pirates?

As for the relatives, I can imagine them being emotionally distraught and clutching at straws. They do not have the wherewithall to cross check!

I feel sorry for the poor relatives and pity for the kind of people who run our DDM and put out sensational stories without bothering to verify/cross-check their sources. Having said that, GoI was very slow off the blocks.

Accusing Azhar mian of being a handler for Somali pirates may be jumping the gun. Sure, he did serve with the ISI, but lots of Pak armed forces officers serve 2-3 year terms with the ISI on a rotational basis, before returning to their parent units. MV Suez also carried Pakistani hostages who were held for the same length of time as the Indian sailors. In all likelihood there was no conspiracy between the Pak Navy and pirates (at least in this case). The Pakistanis just decided to score a few cheap brownie points towards the end of this saga by acting as the saviours of the hostages.

However, there appears to be ample opportunity in the future for the Pakistani establishment and the pirates to collaborate.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 22 Jun 2011 14:54

Accusing Azhar mian of being a handler for Somali pirates may be jumping the gun. Sure, he did serve with the ISI, but lots of Pak armed forces officers serve 2-3 year terms with the ISI on a rotational basis, before returning to their parent units. MV Suez also carried Pakistani hostages who were held for the same length of time as the Indian sailors. In all likelihood there was no conspiracy between the Pak Navy and pirates (at least in this case). The Pakistanis just decided to score a few cheap brownie points towards the end of this saga by acting as the saviours of the hostages.

I should have mentioned my assumption in my post. That the pakistani Military establishment think their populace is expendable.

Hence the theorising about Azhar Mian being a handler.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 22 Jun 2011 15:00

just as good taliban/bad taliban
there is probably also good somali clan (pirate)/ bad somali clan (pirate)

the ISI(PN branch) would be stupid not to work with some of them to be an irritant to indian naval interests

after all, what other mission could the PN have when it is faced with overwhelming odds other than to resort to asymmetric warfare?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Jun 2011 15:13

saip wrote:Are sailors who r Indian citizens taxed by Indian Govt?

NRI status.

The birathers pay no tax.

Family demands full service on prime time TV. Egged on by the DDM. Like the pakis asked after the meheran attack, who benefits?? Who indeed.

Nice.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Jun 2011 15:23

rajanb wrote:
Accusing Azhar mian of being a handler for Somali pirates may be jumping the gun. Sure, he did serve with the ISI, but lots of Pak armed forces officers serve 2-3 year terms with the ISI on a rotational basis, before returning to their parent units. MV Suez also carried Pakistani hostages who were held for the same length of time as the Indian sailors. In all likelihood there was no conspiracy between the Pak Navy and pirates (at least in this case). The Pakistanis just decided to score a few cheap brownie points towards the end of this saga by acting as the saviours of the hostages.

I should have mentioned my assumption in my post. That the pakistani Military establishment think their populace is expendable.

Hence the theorising about Azhar Mian being a handler.

Strangely enough a lot of the pirate arms and ammo are paki sourced.

Article by our very own P. Chacko Joseph

http://frontierindia.net/terror-at-the- ... nto-piracy

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jun 2011 20:03

Can we track the media that accused the IN for future reference? A short summary and link will do.
Thanks, ramana

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 23 Jun 2011 00:17

Juggi G wrote:It is also Speculated that all Three Incidents are Related to the Captain of the Pakistani warship, Azhar Naeem, who Spent Three Years in the ISI Before Taking Charge of the Ship Recently.

The good captain has a distinguish record:

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 010_pg12_1

...

Respondent Captain Azhar, who also remained in service of intelligence agencies, took charge as training commander at PNS Babur, Karachi on April 14, 2009. He stated Captain Azhar started having three times meal from Gun Room Mess instead of Ward Mess.

Counsel submitted on April 30, 2009, petitioner sent 15-day meal bill amounting to Rs 3,170 to Captain Azhar, who got changed from his post. A three-member committee was also formed to probe the alleged fake embezzlement charge levelled by the respondent against the petitioner.

He submitted that the petitioner sent a petition to OIC SW School PNS in July 2009, which remained pending. As the new OIC took charge, he made fresh petition against the respondent on August 18, 2009. The counsel stated that PN through order dated December 12, 2010 allegedly illegally and unlawfully removed petitioner from service and initiated proceedings against him.

...

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 24 Jun 2011 11:10

What is wrong with the politicians? On one side the IN is blaming the TSP Navy for endangering the lives of Indian sailors and the ship, and on the other side our politicos can't stop this "Aman ka Tamasha" crap!

Krishna relieved at safe return of the Indian Sailors

In a statement, Krishna said: "The six Indian sailors, who were in captivity of Somali pirates abroad MV Suez, are now headed home from Karachi. We are relieved that their ordeal has ended and they would soon be safely back with their families. We appreciate the timely help extended to them and sailors of other countries, by the Pakistani navy."

"However let us not forget that the ordeal of over five hundred sailors from across the world, who are still in captivity of the pirates, is not yet over. The scourge of piracy requires a well coordinated response by all entities, especially navies of more than two dozen nations that provide security to sea faring vessels in piracy infested waters," the statement added.

Not a freaking word about INS Godavari who had to steam up to the MV Suez for nothing.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 24 Jun 2011 12:52

^^
I think this is a highly chankian move on the part of Indian Govt. Remember how many people were badmouthing China after they had not acknowledged IN help in securing their ship from pirates a few weeks back?

Pakistan is in shambles because of infighting. Look at the previous statements of Pakistan- "We have selected targets in India"..." IN ship rammed us" etc. All these are clear attempts to provoke India to say something threatening and in turn make the Paki public side with Paki Military and get collectively angry at India.

Now, it is in our long term interest that our Govt keeps portraying the typical SDRE attitude wrt Pakistan. It will only make Pakistani people get more confidence that we dhoti shivering Indians are surely no threat to them. Then the Pakis can go on blowing each other up without any distraction.

The last thing we want to do is unite them at this point.

Anyway, defence forces are always there to make the things clear. Like the AF's statement of "IAF has identified 5000 targets inside Pakistan" or the recent IN's statements detailing the truth.

So, I think this is a very good policy. Let the defence forces do and say the right things and keep up the morale of Indian public while the Govt keeps up the non threatening posture wrt Pakistan.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 24 Jun 2011 13:23

True Gaur.

From a pshychological point of view, let them think that they are superior to us. During the war of "a 1000 years" One Porki soldier was equal to 10 indian soldiers. And we know who got a bloody nose. The paki army is in history the largest force (93,000) troops to have surrendered after WWII.

Not that our Foreign Minister doesn't need to be thrown out.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 24 Jun 2011 14:54

There is nothing intelligent here. They are just reacting stupid as usual. Nothing more. Can anything unite Pakis? Nothing can. Not even Islam. So just don't believe that the govt is all Chanakian. It's the most dumbass govt we got.
But if we want to play the game. The release of five Pakistani fisherman can be published in newspapers and showed on Indian media in a big way, including how they were rescued by the Indian Navy and how they were nicely treated by the Policeman including their comments, along with the response of the fisherman on how good is India and Indian people etc. Then how the Pakistanis were not taken home by their govt while even the Iranians got home because Iranian govt acted in their interest.
But S.M Krishna must go. He is of no use as a minister.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 24 Jun 2011 14:57

PNS Babar damaged our helicopter net: Naval Chief

Video:
http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/p ... rma/203400

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 24 Jun 2011 15:00

The first mistake by the govt was during the time of release of the sailors from captivity. They must have forseen that there will be threats to them and an Indian warship must be there to escort MV Suez. The second mistake was they trusted the task force led by Khan and let them do the job, to protect the Indian sailors. The third was not acting when the Babur rammed against Godavari. They must have sunk the Babur. There lies Babur in deep water. And how come the earlier three reports of Paki rowdyism at sea was not taken up and no protests were lodged? The stupid way of keeping quiet will not work. We must be capable of protecting our interests and spank the Pakis whenever we get chance and keep spanking them in all possible ways, whenever we get chance. That's the right way to deal with Pakistan.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 24 Jun 2011 15:01

Gaur wrote:PNS Babar damaged our helicopter net: Naval Chief

Video:
http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/p ... rma/203400

Why don't you damage the Babur? Why don't you send it deep into the bottom of the sea?

jai · Post by **jai** » 24 Jun 2011 15:05

Juggi G wrote:There was a Big Bad Soovar Captaining PNS Babur which tailed and intentionally brushed the INS Godavari

Babur Tried to Disrupt War Game
The Indian Express
Babur Tried to Disrupt War Game
Manu Pubby
Posted : Wed Jun 22 2011
New Delhi

The Pakistani Warship that triggered a diplomatic squabble between India and Pakistan ahead of the foreign secretary level talks is a ‘History-Sheeter’ that came dangerously close to Indian warships in the Arabian Sea Thrice in the Past Eight Months and Even Tried to Disrupt War Games being Conducted by the Indian Navy in International Waters.

Details have now emerged that show that the PNS Babur has a History of Aggressive Behaviour at sea and last Thursday’s incident when it brushed past the INS Godavari while escorting the MV Suez is the Third Time that it has Deliberately Taunted Indian Warships.

It is also Speculated that all Three Incidents are Related to the Captain of the Pakistani warship, Azhar Naeem, who Spent Three Years in the ISI Before Taking Charge of the Ship Recently.

Source said that the first incident was recorded in November last year when Indian warships were taking part in the Defence of Gujarat Exercise. The Babur came dangerously close and attempted to disrupt the war game.

The action was repeated in January when it attempted to interfere in war games in the Arabian Sea.

In both cases, the Babur breached the three mile distance that is followed by warships of both countries as part of CBMs. Sources said the Indian Navy lodged a complaint in both cases.

No wonder - ISI stands for Inter Service Intelligence - this incident brings out the dangerous situation of ISI now taking on front line and critical roles (Capt of a war ship !!) in regular services of the Puki defence forces. I wonder what next, ISI commanding divisions and corps and wings and Air commands...this can only lead to more and more rogue incidents.

US and the international forces/countries need to seriously investigate the ISI connection to piracy. I would not be surprised to find this rise in piracy is ISI 's newest way to hit India by causing financial losses for our shipping industry and to raise finances for its nefarious activities as Pukistan is now heading towards bankruptcy.

Navy should sink the bugger next time they see him

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 24 Jun 2011 15:40

uddu wrote:
Gaur wrote:PNS Babar damaged our helicopter net: Naval Chief

Video:
http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/p ... rma/203400
Why don't you damage the Babur? Why don't you send it deep into the bottom of the sea?

Please see the video. If you have seen it, then please view it more carefully this time. The Navy Chief clearly states that that PNS Babur tried to overtake INS Godavari from rear at a very high speed. He further states that this is a risky manurer and a certain minimum distance is should be maintained. The Pakistani ship failed to maintain that distance and ended up scraping INS Godavari. Now, I don't know whether that it was intentional or because of overenthusiasm to overtake INS Godavari. My bet is on the latter. No one is stupid enough to intentionally ram another ship. There is a good chance that doing so would end up sending both the ships to the bottom of the ocean.

However, it does not matter. In any case, why do you suggest that we should "send it deep into the bottom of the sea"? Should the INS Godavari's capatin have ordered a missile strike at INS Babur just because his helicopter net was damaged?

I understand your anger at the situation but I am very happy that the captain showed much maturity and wisdom in face of such provocation. As I have said a few posts back, the last thing we want is to appear threatening in the eyes of Pakistan's general public. Sinking of a PN Ship by India is just be the perfect opportunity Paki Military would be looking for. It would give no long term gain for India except for some temporary chest beating. On the other hand, it would only unite the whole of Pakistan against a common enemy (India). Furthermore, all the Paki people's anger against Paki Military would vaporize in an instant and the Pakistan as a whole would only end up getting stronger. And all this without going into the International ramifications of destroying another Nation's warship....that too a Warship which was off to rescue a ship from pirates.

Sometimes hot anger is necessary, but it pays in long-term to keep a cool head. This is why I feel the current dhoti shivering, olive branch offering show by Indian Govt wrt Pakistan is most chankian and highly beneficial to us in long term.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 24 Jun 2011 17:02

Gaur wrote: I understand your anger at the situation but I am very happy that the captain showed much maturity and wisdom in face of such provocation. As I have said a few posts back, the last thing we want is to appear threatening in the eyes of Pakistan's general public. Sinking of a PN Ship by India is just be the perfect opportunity Paki Military would be looking for. It would give no long term gain for India except for some temporary chest beating. On the other hand, it would only unite the whole of Pakistan against a common enemy (India). Furthermore, all the Paki people's anger against Paki Military would vaporize in an instant and the Pakistan as a whole would only end up getting stronger. And all this without going into the International ramifications of destroying another Nation's warship....that too a Warship which was off to rescue a ship from pirates.

Sometimes hot anger is necessary, but it pays in long-term to keep a cool head. This is why I feel the current dhoti shivering, olive branch offering show by Indian Govt wrt Pakistan is most chankian and highly beneficial to us in long term.

Gaur saab,

Such dhoti shivering does not seem intentional either.

Tactical and strategic brilliance is not the long suit of anyone among the powers that be in our confused and self serving political leadership across all parties.

Disparate and disjointed responses do not a effective foreign policy make.

Keeping in mind that madam is away and MMS has been effectively caged, the dispensation of largesse to the land of the poor, err pure misguided souls has been left without a mentor so the babus will rule.

The current lot can be trusted to scuttle any adventurous foray by the porkis at the ongoing talks. No politico is present to **** it up.

Your main point is indeed very well taken.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 24 Jun 2011 17:41

reading the retard interviews from the sailors families on Rediff makes me puke

Its Indian airlines hijacking all over again

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 24 Jun 2011 17:59

Gaurji,

This "dhoti shivering" is good. Exactly agree about the points you have made re: INS Godavari not retaliating.

The behaviour of the crew of the PNS Barber only strengthens my belief that they desparately want to believe in their superiority. Notwithstanding the twisted lies they are brought up with in their history books, deep inside they know that they got a hiding from us in '65, '71 and '99.

Especially the PN, who had missiles launched from IN OSA class missile boats up their collective @rses in Karachi, browning their spotless whites.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 24 Jun 2011 18:05

Surya wrote:reading the retard interviews from the sailors families on Rediff makes me puke

Its Indian airlines hijacking all over again

Easy Suryaji.

I can understand how distraught the families must have been.

But I puke at our news channels whose collective wisdom seems to have evaporated. At least, now they are airing the plight of the five Paki sailors who have been our guests for the past few months.

As for the way the GOI handles such situations the less said the better.

jagbani · Post by **jagbani** » 25 Jun 2011 14:00

Pak warship violated safety norms, damaged Indian frigate: Navy chief

In its bid to garner propaganda points over the entire MV Suez episode, Pakistani Navy behaved in an unprofessional manner and its warship PNS Babur violated all international navigational safety norms to brush against Indian frigate INS Godavari, damaging one of its helicopter nets.

http://www.punjabkesari.in/Punjab/fulls ... 62_122419-

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 Jun 2011 19:09

rajanb wrote:Gaurji,

This "dhoti shivering" is good. Exactly agree about the points you have made re: INS Godavari not retaliating.

The behaviour of the crew of the PNS Barber only strengthens my belief that they desparately want to believe in their superiority. Notwithstanding the twisted lies they are brought up with in their history books, deep inside they know that they got a hiding from us in '65, '71 and '99.

Especially the PN, who had missiles launched from IN OSA class missile boats up their collective @rses in Karachi, browning their spotless whites.

What has not been mentioned is the normal age old paki tactic of exposing the genitals, in this case, in all it's peeled glory.

Some farm boys on the deck actually lift up their salwars and and trust their genitals at the Indians and this is some how considered a great insult in their culture.

May be "meat on the hoof" has special significance for these guys.

Many of them are actually quite small built.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 25 Jun 2011 19:18

^^

Why on earth would anyone do that? How does a full frontal by PN insult IN? It should be quite the opposite! (Edit: On the other hand, don't answer that. I think I am getting a gist of the sick and childish mind these porkis have /facepalm)
BTW, are you sure of the credibility of your source?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 Jun 2011 19:56

Gaur wrote:^^

Why on earth would anyone do that? How does a full frontal by PN insult IN? It should be quite the opposite! (Edit: On the other hand, don't answer that. I think I am getting a gist of the sick and childish mind these porkis have /facepalm)
BTW, are you sure of the credibility of your source?

Source is eyeball Mk 1, on multiple previous ocassions, as seen from the air and from deck.

My kid brother inherited a pair of WWII vintage Zeiss german submarine binocs. His father in law had a VrC.

Despite best efforts I failed to liberate the same from my brother.

I used it extensively in another life, more exciting than the mundane one that I currently lead.

This time too modus operandi was followed as per fresh inputs

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 25 Jun 2011 20:11

rajanb

no the middle class is only interested in its own comfort

you never see such behaviour in the west - the chest beating and undermining your own Navy is only indian

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 25 Jun 2011 20:14

chetak,
I see. Sometimes, you cannot help but laugh at their antics.

I am sure that they feel very pleased with themselves after doing that.

Regarding eyeball mk1. If you don't mind me asking, do you serve in IN?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 Jun 2011 20:19

Gaur wrote:chetak,
I see. Sometimes, you cannot help but laugh at their antics. I am sure that they feel very pleased with themselves after doing that.

Regarding eyeball mk1. If you don't mind me asking, do you serve in IN?

Yes sir

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 25 Jun 2011 21:55

^^^Served or serve.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 25 Jun 2011 22:06

jagbani wrote:Pak warship violated safety norms, damaged Indian frigate: Navy chief

In its bid to garner propaganda points over the entire MV Suez episode, Pakistani Navy behaved in an unprofessional manner and its warship PNS Babur violated all international navigational safety norms to brush against Indian frigate INS Godavari, damaging one of its helicopter nets.

http://www.punjabkesari.in/Punjab/fulls ... 62_122419-

Whats a Helicopter net?

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 25 Jun 2011 22:10

So the captain of the ba(r)bar is an ISI captain. That explains following by high speed and trying to ram Godavari. From his ISI days, they have been taught to chase Indians(diplomats etc) and appear intimidating. Recall the close tailgating of Indian diplomats in pakistan, beating up indian diplomats (tried the same tactic on raymond davis and got ass whipped) etc. Well, the ISI captain was trying the same tactic on the IN warship. Trying to follow it and beat it up is in the ISI DNS

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 25 Jun 2011 22:34

chetak wrote:
rajanb wrote:Gaurji,

This "dhoti shivering" is good. Exactly agree about the points you have made re: INS Godavari not retaliating.

The behaviour of the crew of the PNS Barber only strengthens my belief that they desparately want to believe in their superiority. Notwithstanding the twisted lies they are brought up with in their history books, deep inside they know that they got a hiding from us in '65, '71 and '99.

Especially the PN, who had missiles launched from IN OSA class missile boats up their collective @rses in Karachi, browning their spotless whites.

What has not been mentioned is the normal age old paki tactic of exposing the genitals, in this case, in all it's peeled glory.

Some farm boys on the deck actually lift up their salwars and and trust their genitals at the Indians and this is some how considered a great insult in their culture.

May be "meat on the hoof" has special significance for these guys.

Many of them are actually quite small built.

the gauls used to do this to the roman legions too - and we know how that ended up?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 26 Jun 2011 07:42

Raja Bose wrote:^^^Served or serve.

If serving, I wouldn't be posting.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 26 Jun 2011 08:30

Chetak. I had a couple of relatives in IN. And quite a few friends too. Including one who was CO of an OSA which attacked Karachi.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 26 Jun 2011 08:59

Aditya G wrote: Whats a Helicopter net?

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 26 Jun 2011 10:11

^^ OK what is it used for?

Bob V · Post by **Bob V** » 26 Jun 2011 10:27

to net a chopper from tipping into the sea.

they can be raised/lowered.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 26 Jun 2011 10:28

In rough seas, landing a helio can be a challenge. So this arrests in case the helio topples or skids. When helios leave the ship and are expected back, the nets are kept open (logically).

In this case, INS Godavari was brushed by PNS babur and the "extended" nets were damaged. Had the nets been closed babur could have actually rubbed against the Godavari hull. So in this display of stupidity, Babur damaged its own hull and Godavari nets were damaged.