I was not able to watch your posted video earlier. Fortunately, I saw it just now and it was an amazing footage! Really worth the 1080p. So, thanks for posting.
![Smile :-)](./images/smilies/smile.gif)
Green berets - US Army 1st Special Forces GroupSingha wrote:what was the american unit in that exercise ? green berets ? rangers ?
was the indian unit from para regt or one of the para cdo btns?
You're very welcome.Gaur wrote:Viv S,
I was not able to watch your posted video earlier. Fortunately, I saw it just now and it was an amazing footage! Really worth the 1080p. So, thanks for posting.
Right next to it is this on Yudh Abhyas 2010vaibhav.n wrote:Singha Sir,
Yudh Abhyas had elements from 3 Para, 5 Para and some of the Para Bde's combat support elements(Arty, AAD, Sappers). Another very important visit happening at the same time was by IA's Army Aviation Pilots to Fort Wainwright home to the combat aviation Bde.
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPnsVKm5 ... re=related
Cheers!!
More likely they're MARCOS.rahul_r wrote:Not sure where to post this.
CCTV footage of NSG commandos operating inside the Taj hotel
http://www.youtube.com/user/thesundayin ... k8ckX5hNJQ
Beautiful, beautiful video!!! Amazing PR mechanism the US armed forces have.. amazing vid with stunning video-graphy.Gaur wrote:Viv S,
I was not able to watch your posted video earlier. Fortunately, I saw it just now and it was an amazing footage! Really worth the 1080p. So, thanks for posting.
They are MARCOS - one of the tall chaps got injured.Dmurphy wrote:More likely they're MARCOS.rahul_r wrote:Not sure where to post this.
CCTV footage of NSG commandos operating inside the Taj hotel
http://www.youtube.com/user/thesundayin ... k8ckX5hNJQ
You know one funny thing, I tried searching for FA's pictures with his security Retinue, how many did I get? ZILCH. I can get hazaar pictures of Jayalalitha who becase CM yesterday but none of FA. Interesting?vdutta wrote:i tried to locate farukh abdullah but he was in a vip room and i dared not enter it.
lol i wanted to take pictures but my couple of previous experiences thwarted me in doing so.
True, i tried to search for it too but nothing.cheenum wrote:You know one funny thing, I tried searching for FA's pictures with his security Retinue, how many did I get? ZILCH. I can get hazaar pictures of Jayalalitha who becase CM yesterday but none of FA. Interesting?vdutta wrote:i tried to locate farukh abdullah but he was in a vip room and i dared not enter it.
lol i wanted to take pictures but my couple of previous experiences thwarted me in doing so.
FA (and his clan) are the cause of the problem AND THE SOLUTION in Kashmir?vdutta wrote:True, i tried to search for it too but nothing.
actually from pics he looks like least secured minister in India
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20110627/nation.htm#7Strengthening its capabilities to carry out special operations, the Indian Army is raising a new special forces battalion which will be deployed in the north-eastern sector.
Counter-terror Force
* Eighth special forces battalion of Parachute Regiment
* To be deployed for counter-
insurgency ops in the N-E
A new battalion of the Parachute Regiment -- 11 Para (SF)--is being raised and will be first deployed in the north-eastern sector, Army sources said here. This will be eighth special forces battalion of the Parachute Regiment and will be deployed in counter-insurgency and counter-terrorism operations in that region, they said.
The Parachute Regiment has 10 battalions under it and seven of them have been trained as special forces, which are supposed to carry out counter-terrorist operations during peacetime and sabotage enemy installations beyond enemy lines during wars.
The special forces battalions include the 1, 2, 3, 4, 9, 10 and 21 para units, which are deployed in different sectors of the country and have also been given responsibility to handle any 26/11 type attacks if that occurs near their area of deployment. The Army wants to increase the number of special forces troops to more than 10 battalions with around 700 men in each. These battalions have been provided with modern equipment such as Tavor 21 assault rifles.
PARA SF is already well trained in the areas you mention.Viv S wrote: Which does raise a question of whether these units are capable of all possible tasks that may be required of them. The US military classifies its Army Special Forces (Green Berets) as well as Navy SEALs as Tier 3 SOF units with their main purpose being unconventional tasks in wartime, or counter-insurgency operations. Tier 1 units include the Delta Force and Seal Team 6, which are a smaller group, relatively experienced, technology intensive, on permanent readiness and specializing in counter-terrorism and high value surgical operations (like the Abbottabad raid). That's one option the Indian Army could consider... unless they already have (SFF-SG?).
In actual operations, you need 1/4th of the fighting force in the reserves - this the formula around which the army is organized; for example, a battalion has four Rif Coys because one is held in reserve while three attack. In the Indian SNAFU that passes for "peace", if one unit is in an active area, the AHQ tries to keep at least one equivalent unit in active training and another equivalent in a true peace posture; that is, you need two units in reserves for every unit in deployment.Surya wrote:Plus we need a few companies in reserve - we barely have that. Taking into account - time for training etc. the poor guys have hardly any rest.
So are the Green Berets but its question of specialization. As a smaller group they can train for HRT more intensively, invest far more in technology, while maintaining a greater operations tempo than regular SF units to the point where operators rarely serve more than 10 years within the units.Gaur wrote:PARA SF is already well trained in the areas you mention.
I cannot comment on whether 2,3,4 SF are on par with the older battalions or not. However, it is very unfair to say that only the 4 older batallions are "actively being used". Take a look at the list of gallantry award winners (even in the recent years) and you will notice that they are very much sharing the burden of the old Batallions. Even if you go by unit citations, the rest have a highly respectable numbers.Surya wrote:just noticed the reference to bloated
Our SF is overstretched
Technically we have 4 genuine sf -
They are actively being used in j&K and NE + UN expedition support+ unknown places- areas large enough to require far more
Plus we need a few companies in reserve - we barely have that
Taking into account - time for training etc. the poor guys have hardly any rest.
I am afraid that I am unable to understand your reasoning. Why comes in the way of a unit like...say 9 PARA SF from reaching the level of "specialization" that you desire? Please be specific.Viv S wrote:So are the Green Berets but its question of specialization. As a smaller group they can train for HRT more intensively, invest far more in technology, while maintaining a greater operations tempo than regular SF units to the point where operators rarely serve more than 10 years within the units.Gaur wrote:PARA SF is already well trained in the areas you mention.
GaurI cannot comment on whether 2,3,4 SF are on par with the older battalions or not. However, it is very unfair to say that only the 4 older batallions are "actively being used".
Nothing prevents 9 PARA SF from that kind of specialization. Give it complete autonomy with regard to training and equipment, a budget well in excess of other infantry or SF units, let it co-opt the most experienced operators from other SF battalions, let it independently develop ties with the RAW as well as SF units from other countries (without some member of the general staff nodding along or wagging his finger) and you'll have a specialized unit.Gaur wrote:I am afraid that I am unable to understand your reasoning. Why comes in the way of a unit like...say 9 PARA SF from reaching the level of "specialization" that you desire? Please be specific.
Regarding the serving tenure in SF. Each soldier in PARA SF serves only till he is deemed fit enough (both mentally and physically). If he is found lacking, then the person is sent back to his parent regiment. Also, what do you mean by "greater operational temp"?
At least in this case, nothing more can be done. Para SF are already working at a ridiculously high tempo (both operationally and while training). They are overstretched as it is. So have some mercy on them by not suggesting that they work at even greater tempo.With regard to operational tempo - the American Tier 1 forces spend more time in training or operations than 'regular' SF troops, to extent that they prefer to recruit unmarried males and have much higher 'burnout' rates than other SOF units.
The US Army's size is about 900,000 including the ANG - which makes it a slightly higher proportion of SF troops.Gaur wrote:However, regarding creating a new smaller SF unit, it is worth noting that PARA SF is already very small. US Army has a strength of .56 million (not even half of IA) and look at its SF size. Even if you consider Marines and Navy, the SF is still proportionally much larger. Seeing that, I think PARA SF is very small as it is (BTW, I think that the SF batallion strength cited in paper is off the mark. But without a source, I will not go more into that). If Para SF is not being funded properly, it has little do do with its size than the general apathy of things. An even smaller SF will not change that.
Is 9 Para allowed to create an independent training program? I was under the impression the training was common to all Para-SF units.Now regarding other things you have mentioned:
1> autonomy with regards to training-
Already present.
As units US SEALs are quite experienced as well, yet the ST6 picks out the most experienced applicants for itself.2>let it co-opt the most experienced operators from other SF battalions-
The PARA SF operators are already selected through an extraordinarily stringent selection process. And considering the current operational intensity in India, every one is highly experienced. But if you want to get even more selective, there are groups within each SF unit...some having particularly illustrative history. Also, there is SG.
3>let it independently develop ties with the RAW
Again SG.
Cross training is one thing but unless I'm mistaken all activities conducted abroad have to vetted at senior levels, and having .. say an officer and a senior NCO imbedded into the Sayeret Matkal on active operations, is something the brass would tend to frown upon.4> co-corporation with SF units from other countries (without some member of the general staff nodding along or wagging his finger)
A lot of that is already going on and there is no interference from the general staff on that count.
At least in this case, nothing more can be done. Para SF are already working at a ridiculously high tempo (both operationally and while training). They are overstretched as it is. So have some mercy on them by not suggesting that they work at even greater tempo.Also, you seem to be like the idea of a small bunch of people being selected from different SF units and working together for a limited time at "high tempo". It sounds good but it is generally a very bad idea.
ANG is a reserve force and AFAIK they don't contribute to SF. However, if one considers ANG numbers then even the IA reserve has to be taken into account. So, any way you look at it, IA strength is much greater. And seeing that, Para SF is already a very trim force.Viv S wrote: The US Army's size is about 900,000 including the ANG - which makes it a slightly higher proportion of SF troops.
Not only 9 Para, every Para batallion has independence in that regard. By and large, they all follow the same pattern. However, they tweak it as per their need. Eg: You would have seen the combat diver badge many Para SF folks wear. That is earned by completing Navy's diver's course at Cochi. However, the vacancies there are scant. So, the Para SF has its own combat diving course (I think 1 Para SF was the first to start it a long time ago) and they provide excellent combat diving training themselves. And there are numerous such examples to show the freedom with regards to training.Is 9 Para allowed to create an independent training program? I was under the impression the training was common to all Para-SF units.
I am afraid that I cannot say much about training and standards of SEAL. But when I look at the past operations of Para SF (especially the ones gone wrong where the mettle of the forces is truly revealed), my personal opinion is that Para SF are a bunch of as exceptional and filtered soldiers as you can ever hope to find. They are already a very trim force and I see no reason why they cannot be provided by the best of funding and equipment (other than red tape which would apply to even a smaller force). So, I see no value in selecting a group of soldiers from different units and sending them to a new unit. In fact, I feel that is very counter productive and I have explained the reasons for that in my previous post in much detail. However, even if one finds the need for such a model, then there is already SG and I see no reason to create another parallel SF with overlapping role. Anyway, the debate on the need of another small force can be a never ending one. Both of us have nothing but our own personal opinions.As units US SEALs are quite experienced as well, yet the ST6 picks out the most experienced applicants for itself.
Its nothing secretive. Each Batallion has several groups. Some groups have a more distinguished history than others. This much is fully true and official.'Groups within each SF unit'? Care to elaborate.
I am afraid that I am unable to fully understand what you are saying. Are you suggesting that our senior staff does not allow PARA SF Officers and senior NCOs to take part in joint exercises?Cross training is one thing but unless I'm mistaken all activities conducted abroad have to vetted at senior levels, and having .. say an officer and a senior NCO imbedded into the Sayeret Matkal on active operations, is something the brass would tend to frown upon.