Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 01 Jul 2011 08:18

rajanb wrote:
There are Agni II Prime, IV, V and VI.

kahaan khoye ho sarkar ...

Agni II prime is being tested (it failed the last one) ... there is and there will be no Agni IV ... V has not yet been developed (first test coming up) ... VI is only coming up for approval (i.e. if that is true).

sum · Post by **sum** » 01 Jul 2011 08:24

Err, A-II Prime has had only one test and it had failed. IV,V and VI are only now even making their way into brochures, forget them even being in any shape.

How do we expect these worthies to be even called usable, forget operational?

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 02 Jul 2011 03:21

sum wrote:Err, A-II Prime has had only one test and it had failed. IV,V and VI are only now even making their way into brochures, forget them even being in any shape.

How do we expect these worthies to be even called usable, forget operational?

Which brochure mentioned Agni IV, and what are its specs?

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 02 Jul 2011 12:30

^^
There is no such thing as Agni-IV

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 02 Jul 2011 14:36

shiv wrote:
Rahul M wrote:nitpick, SS for SSMs, SA for SAMs.
The names Rahul, the names, not the codes. Atoll not AAtoll, Styx, not SStyx, Adder, Aphid, Sunburn etc for AAMs and SSMs

SAMs had names starting with G - like Gainful (SA-7), Gecko and Grail (SA-7). ASMs had names staring with K- like "Kent", "Kitchen", "Kangaroo", "Ketch" etc.

One unanswered question. Most of the Soviet "major" surface vessel type started with K. Is is intentional or a coincidence ?

Example Kashin, Kyanda, Kresta I, Kresta II, Kara, Kotlin, Kildin etc

K

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 02 Jul 2011 14:37

shiv wrote:
Rahul M wrote:nitpick, SS for SSMs, SA for SAMs.
The names Rahul, the names, not the codes. Atoll not AAtoll, Styx, not SStyx, Adder, Aphid, Sunburn etc for AAMs and SSMs

SAMs had names starting with G - like Gainful (SA-7), Gecko and Grail (SA-7). ASMs had names staring with K- like "Kent", "Kitchen", "Kangaroo", "Ketch" etc.

A for Alpha
D for Delta
etc

Any comments ?

K

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 02 Jul 2011 14:48

shiv wrote:
prithvi wrote: no I am just curious about the process and decision behind nicknaming weapon systems by NATO.. is that a cold war era practice or still being continued today..? and what are the possible reasons behind them...
The Soviets were literally behind an iron curtaon and the West was unable to see development in the USSR but were nevertheless concerned that developments could be a threat. In the 1950s and 60s Russians used to play the same game of hide and seek about weapons development that the Chinese have played more recently. What that meant was that spy planes and telephoto lenses would capture inages in the USSR and a few of them would be recognized as "more than experimental". For example if you look at Jane's photos of the eariest MiG 21s and Su-7s and 9s - they are blurry enlarged images.

The Soviets might refer to a Type "65Strzhny" or type "ZhPrzxght-74ski" and both might be variants of the same aircraft. To reduce confusion among NATO forces - once a type was identified it was given a code name where the first letter of the name indicated what type it was. For example

F for fighter - Fishbed (Mig 21) , Fitter (Su-9), Flanker (Su-27)
B for bomber Badger (Tu-16), Blinder (Tu-22)
C for transport/civil Cub (An-12), Candid (IL 76), Tu 104 (Camel)
A for AAMs Atoll (K-13), Adder, Aphid etc (can't recall the designations)
S for SSMs - such as Styx
.

One more interesting aspect

All fighter aircraft had odd numbers. MiG 21, SU 7, Mig 29, SU 27
Ground attack and bomber were even numbers. SU 24, TU 16, TU 160, Tu 22, SU 30 ?????
Choppers were also even number. Mi 4, Mi 6, Mi 8, Mi 26. Exception Mi 17 !!!
Missiles were numbers as per their appearence e.g AA 10 came after AA 6

The nomenclature YE stood for experimental or development like X / Y designation in US
Ye 2 finally became MiG 21 and
Ye 266 became MiG 25

Did you know the aircraft now known as MiG 25 Foxbat was designated MiG 23. Refer Jane's or Observer's of 1969 - 1972

Just some titbits. I hope I have bore you sufficiently !!!

K

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 02 Jul 2011 14:53

shiv wrote:
Rahul M wrote:nitpick, SS for SSMs, SA for SAMs.
The names Rahul, the names, not the codes. Atoll not AAtoll, Styx, not SStyx, Adder, Aphid, Sunburn etc for AAMs and SSMs

SAMs had names starting with G - like Gainful (SA-7), Gecko and Grail (SA-7). ASMs had names staring with K- like "Kent", "Kitchen", "Kangaroo", "Ketch" etc.

Does any one know ALL the IAF names of aircraft.

Mirage 2000 - Vajra
Mig 29 - Baaz
Jaguar Shamsheer
IL 76 Gajraj
AN 32 Sutlej

Let us complete the list

K

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 02 Jul 2011 15:05

MiG-27 - Bahadur

koti · Post by **koti** » 02 Jul 2011 15:05

Su-30MKI- Rambha
Mi-35 - Akbar

koti · Post by **koti** » 02 Jul 2011 15:06

^OT Alert

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 02 Jul 2011 15:09

indranilroy wrote:
rajanb wrote:
There are Agni II Prime, IV, V and VI.
kahaan khoye ho sarkar ...

Agni II prime is being tested (it failed the last one) ... there is and there will be no Agni IV ... V has not yet been developed (first test coming up) ... VI is only coming up for approval (i.e. if that is true).

Looked up Uncle Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India_and_ ... estruction

It has a chart there of missiles under development and operational.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 03 Jul 2011 00:59

koti wrote:Su-30MKI- Rambha

For those who might not know: heh heh Rambha is BR christening of MKI

CM

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 03 Jul 2011 04:53

Hindu - India all set to test new short-range tactical missile
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 154015.ece

‘Prahaar' (to strike), a totally new quick-reaction, short-range tactical missile, which will fill the gap for such a battlefield weapon system in India's missile arsenal, is all set to be flight-tested on July 17.

It would bridge the gap between Pinaka, a 40-km range multi-barrel rocket system, and the 350-km Prithvi-II, which had been converted into a strategic missile. Unguided rockets of 90-km range had also been imported from Russia.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 03 Jul 2011 05:27

From above article

Dr. Saraswat said that at present the services did not have a weapon such as Prahaar. The missile would be equipped with omni-directional warheads and could be used for hitting both tactical and strategic targets. The road-mobile system could be pulled out for quick deployment with each launcher carrying six missiles. “With different types of warheads, you can have different types of missiles from the same launcher,” he added.

Stating that the DRDO-developed missile was cost-effective, Dr. Saraswat said that only a few would be required to cause devastation equivalent to that produced by several unguided rockets. Initially, the missile would be given to the Army and later to other services.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Jul 2011 05:34

This is great. This is the project which was the "follow on" to the Pinaka, which would offer the Army the capability to field a Corps level weapon. Ultimately, the Shourya should replace the Prithvi. No wonder PV Naik in a recent interview said the Missile program was one of the greatest successes. He must have been privy to developments in the field. Even AF has Prithvis which can be replaced by Shouryas. Nice name, the Prahaar

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Jul 2011 05:40

Cain Marko wrote:
koti wrote:Su-30MKI- Rambha
For those who might not know: heh heh Rambha is BR christening of MKI

CM

Pardon me but its a flippant, silly thing to use a name of an actress, even in jest for a platform as deadly as the Sukhoi-30 MKI intended for a purpose as serious as war. The MKI needs a name like the Shamsher, for the Jaguar. It is now the sword arm of the IAF and it already strikes fear in the heart of the enemy. The PAF for instance, despite all their bravado worry a lot about it, going just by what their mouthpieces in the media write about it. The best part about the MKI is that it is truly multirole & can perform a variety of missions and excel at all. This is the missile thread so I'll stop here..

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 03 Jul 2011 05:54

what are the chances that this is derived from the AAD/pradyumna missile ? I had predicted a surface to surface attack version of it when it came out.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Jul 2011 06:04

I think this started before that as a separate pinaka-follow on project. The AAD land strike version was mentioned in some reports as ashwin?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Jul 2011 06:14

So, what would be the launcher platform for prahaar?

pkudva · Post by **pkudva** » 03 Jul 2011 10:24

This is fantastic....and i now believe India has many plans in its mind to become a Global Power. There are many strategic delivery systems which are in the pipeline and which have been kept super confidential.

Hope, the so called "Prahaar" achieves the successfull testing and quick nduction into the forces.May be this was undetaen after takin intelligence Inputs that Pakisatan had already started the development of its own short range tactical missile.

wasu · Post by **wasu** » 03 Jul 2011 10:28

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/channels ... ly-end-359

....
Called Prahar, the missile has a range of 150 km. Six missiles can be loaded on to a single launcher, making it more cost-effective than others, said V.K. Saraswat, defence department secretary and DRDO director-general. The Prahar system can tackle multiple targets and allows a mix of different kinds of missiles to be used from a single launcher.
....
Being multi-directional and auto loading in nature, Prahar will be extremely useful in emergency situations. Its launch time is estimated to be two to three minutes and no preparation is required. Also, the technology being used on the Prahar is indigenously available and under manufacture in India. This helps in making Prahar cost effective, said Mr Saraswat.

The Prahar will come on a platform with excellent mobility, Mr Saraswat said. The DRDO is in talks with the Indian Army for the introduction for the missile. He said the Prahas has potential for use by the Indian Air Force as well.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Jul 2011 10:42

AOA - the lord has answered our long prayers.

the american atacms system fires 2x 150km rockets from the MLRS tracked vehicle. very stubby and fat rockets.

Prahaar must be the long and thin type of 6 are to be fielded from a pinaka/smerch type vehicle....a common yindu failing seen in agni series also

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 03 Jul 2011 11:03

Very short, dark and thin onlee. Typical SDRE.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 03 Jul 2011 14:28

Singha wrote:AOA - the lord has answered our long prayers.

the american atacms system fires 2x 150km rockets from the MLRS tracked vehicle. very stubby and fat rockets.

Prahaar must be the long and thin type of 6 are to be fielded from a pinaka/smerch type vehicle....a common yindu failing seen in agni series also

Chorgupta has posted an old foto of this...
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Dc2Wx4jR9F8/S ... MG2863.JPG
Edited & Added Later: This Photo was taken by our Jamwal Sahab, all credit goes to him for snapping it. More of his finds during DefExpo2010 can be found on his Blog http://jjamwal.blogspot.com/2010/02/def ... llion.html. Thanks Jamwal.

it seems to be showcased in DefExpo 2010, as part of the L&T pavilion.. from the looks of it, the TEL seems to be a humungous one but self contained unlike the convoy needed for Prithvi.

Courtesy Google uncle, he also states that it is going to be tested on July 17th.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 03 Jul 2011 14:36

Karan M wrote:I think this started before that as a separate pinaka-follow on project. The AAD land strike version was mentioned in some reports as ashwin?

Karan M, dunno what is MR Chorgupta's Takleef with you and me, he has singled out our name in his Prahaar article about us saying something about Nirbhay? do you know what it is? i think, he is not exactly happy about me calling him Chorgupta?!?

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 03 Jul 2011 14:38

Karan M wrote:I think this started before that as a separate pinaka-follow on project. The AAD land strike version was mentioned in some reports as ashwin?

I doubt this is the Pinaka follow-up project? that was the development of longer range rockets with the same 214mm diameter. This is a multi stage solid fuelled guided missile. This is a spinoff from our BMD program!!!

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 03 Jul 2011 14:39

SaiK wrote:So, what would be the launcher platform for prahaar?

an L&T Developed TEL.... looks cool. see link to picture posted by me above.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Jul 2011 15:15

the 3 rear axles make it the Agni2/3 type semi trailer vehicle. I see 4 not 6 tubes in the TEL but perhaps its just a demo kit.

its bigger than the brahmos TEL for sure. http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/brahmos.jpg

problem is this 3 axle puppy is not going to be highly mobile as the tatra 8x8 thing. for a 150km range tactical missile, field mobility and compact size is good to drive upto north sikkim, tawang, tezu, DBG, demchok etc....the size in that model looks very tough to reach those places ....

I hope they use the tatra 8x8 same for brahmos and move those boxes of control gear into another truck. solid fuel and containerized anyways do not need fuel handling and such.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Jul 2011 15:18

to me the L&T truck is showing a Nirbhay launch system not a Prahaar thing. for 150km range you hardly need such huge rockets imo. the blunt nose indicates it as a nirbhay designed firstly for submerged launch

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 03 Jul 2011 15:26

Singha wrote:to me the L&T truck is showing a Nirbhay launch system not a Prahaar thing. for 150km range you hardly need such huge rockets imo. the blunt nose indicates it as a nirbhay designed firstly for submerged launch

Here is a better picture.. thought is is not explicitly labelled Prahaar.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_8gXQngrI7x8/S ... 010807.jpg
Nirbhay is a bigger beast...
Added later: This picture is from the blog http://sayaredefenceworld.blogspot.com/

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 03 Jul 2011 17:23

Shrinivasan wrote:[
Chorgupta has posted an old foto of this...
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Dc2Wx4jR9F8/S ... MG2863.JPG it seems to be showcased in DefExpo 2010, as part of the L&T pavilion.. from the looks of it, the TEL seems to be a humungous one but self contained unlike the convoy needed for Prithvi.

Courtesy Google uncle, he also states that it is going to be tested on July 17th.

He picked that photo from my blog
http://jjamwal.blogspot.com/2010/02/def ... llion.html

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 03 Jul 2011 17:30

Hmmmm, both the photo link in your blog and the one posted above point to same URL

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 03 Jul 2011 20:59

krishnan wrote:Hmmmm, both the photo link in your blog and the one posted above point to same URL

Once a Chor, always a chor.. no credit for the source... proving his nom-de-guer again and again

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 03 Jul 2011 21:01

jamwal wrote:He picked that photo from my blog
http://jjamwal.blogspot.com/2010/02/def ... llion.html

Jamwal, I took it from XXXXX's blog, I wasnot aware of its origin from your blog... else I would have provided the credits... I''ll be modiying my post givng you Credit. Thanks...
You might want to see another picture from a different angle which is clear. Do you remember the specs and veriage in the board/ plaque with the display in DefExpo?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Jul 2011 21:06

jamwal wrote:
Shrinivasan wrote:[
Chorgupta has posted an old foto of this...
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Dc2Wx4jR9F8/S ... MG2863.JPG it seems to be showcased in DefExpo 2010, as part of the L&T pavilion.. from the looks of it, the TEL seems to be a humungous one but self contained unlike the convoy needed for Prithvi.

Courtesy Google uncle, he also states that it is going to be tested on July 17th.
He picked that photo from my blog
http://jjamwal.blogspot.com/2010/02/def ... llion.html

Chorgupta at it again!!

Jo Lahore mein g**ndu woh Peshawar mein bhi g**ndu

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 03 Jul 2011 22:12

Shrinivasan saar,

Unfortunately I don't remember anything. At that time, I was too engrossed by the Brahmos control panel nearby to pay it any attention. At that time, I had assumed it to be yet another launcher for Brahmos.
It was only then that I came to realise that a missile launch was dependent on so many factors. There were 2 panels just like this one for Brahmos. L&T's anti-submarine rocket control panel. The L&T representative allowed me to play around with the controls but requested that I don't click any photos.

Regarding photo-credits, I should have watermarked it before uploading. Photos all over the net are linked just like that without anybody giving proper credit.

P.K.Sengupta's response to my post:

To Jaidev Jamwal: And now that you've come forward and rightfully claimed the photo-credit, it is hereby humbly acknowledged and appreciated.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 03 Jul 2011 23:27

Jamwal, please drop the saar please...
If the controls panels are like what is shown in the picture, it should offer phenomenal use handling... this is afterall meant to be a division level asset and hence offer phenomenal firepower. I think more details will tumble out soon..
I would imagine there would be plenty of commonality with Brahmos launcher (even though Prahaar launcher looks larger). I am still researching this further today!!!
BTB, i have posted another picture which is sharper!!!

ManuJ · Post by **ManuJ** » 03 Jul 2011 23:42

The missile in that launcher looks too big to be of only 150 km range.

And somehow the platform in the picture doesn't seem to be the same that Saraswat is referring to here -

The Prahar will come on a platform with excellent mobility, Mr Saraswat said.

If this is a new missile just being unveiled, why are we so sure its launcher was displayed at DefExpo?

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 04 Jul 2011 00:09

ManuJ wrote:The missile in that launcher looks too big to be of only 150 km range.
If this is a new missile just being unveiled, why are we so sure its launcher was displayed at DefExpo?

this picture was of a system exhibited in the L&T stall in DefExpo 2010 - Shri Sarswat said L&T
the system was Six VLS launch tubed - Shri Sarswat mentioned Six VLS
the missiles look Cannisterized and most likely solid fuelled (speculation based on Canisterized) - matches
there is no other system known to us which matches the picture or any other picture which matches was Shri Sarasvat described. Mr Chorgupta posted the picture first. Your truly trawled and posted other pictures from other forums.
In the absence of any other information to the contrary it is being assumed that "Prahaar is this system in the Picture". looking forward to be corrected!!!