Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 2010)

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 29 Jun 2011 09:25

EURO GOVT-Bonds fall as Greek debt rollover plan gathers pace: Reuters

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 29 Jun 2011 13:01

haven't watched it myself but its about Indian agro companies in Ethiopia cultivating the land.

India is fast running out of space to grow food and leasing and developing farm land in East Africa seems to be a viable option.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 29 Jun 2011 13:05

"Starving Billionaires".. in Zimbabwe I presume.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 29 Jun 2011 13:07

haven't yet watched it but i'm posting it anyways as i plan to

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 30 Jun 2011 09:51

What’s Happening to the US Economy? Martin Feldstein

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 30 Jun 2011 10:27

The Busts Keep Getting Bigger: Why?: Paul Krugman and Robin Wells

sumishi · Post by **sumishi** » 30 Jun 2011 16:07

How does the lootpati Geithner shaking hands with Pranab (current US-India Economic & Financial Partnership meeting in eyeWash-ington) for expanding bilateral relations and pointing out that India remove barriers in sectors like banking, insurance etc connive in bringing the looteras nearer home?
Subbarao has heart to heart with Ben. Not good! Red Flag?

Subbarao favours bank autonomy, and was/is against the setting up of independent Debt Management Office by the govt.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 01 Jul 2011 04:12

^^^NYT reporting that Geithner's considering leaving treasury.

Anyway, here's more of what the TFTA can do to one of their own...what chance do the SDRE lands have against uber-banker rapacity??

Greece faces 'fire sale' shortfall (FT)

The austerity measures call for an independent privatisation agency to be established within weeks to handle a programme of disposals, including the sale of strategic stakes in state- owned utilities and leases in state-owned property for tourist development. Independent research suggests, however, that Greece will struggle to raise much more than a quarter of the €50 billion it needs from the assets sales and privatisations unless it adds more prime land and cultural heritage to its sales list.

Wow. So Greece is selling away the family jewels and more for a on-time reprieve? BTW, here's a better understanding of exactly what public utilities and amenities are under the hammer as of now: (From TAE)

39 airports, 850 ports, railways, motorways, sewage works, a couple of energy companies, banks, defence groups, thousands of acres of land for development, casinos and Greece's national lottery.

All these things are for sale in Greece. As part of the IMF/ECB/EU bailout deal Athens voted in this week, this wholesale firesale of what amounts to something close to an entire public economy, is supposed to bring in €50 billion ($72 billion).

Back to FT:

Only €13bn of assets are ready to sell, leaving a €37bn shortfall, says a study by the Privatisation Barometer, a Milan-based institute sponsored by Fondazione Eni Enrico Mattei and KPMG. This includes €6.6bn from offloading stakes in 15 listed groups and an "optimistic" €7bn from the sale of 70 unlisted groups, where the yields are more difficult to assess.

"At this stage, no one really knows what Greece Inc is worth, but it’s clear that it will fall short," said Bernardo Bortolotti, a corporate finance professor at the University of Turin who produced the analysis.

TAE's take on this is worth a full read, folks. IMF's economic hitman-ship is back to the fore again and how...

Well, we stand corrected. It's not a fire sale, but a "professionally managed privatisation plan". Yeah, exactly. That's what stinks here. isn't it? That's where that familiar smell comes from. It has the fingerprints of the IMF all over it. All the way back to the economic warfare the institution initiated in South America, Asia, Eastern Europe, and everywhere it goes.

Greece has become the next chapter in Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine. Some of the faces at the IMF may have changed, but the blueprints for these kinds of operations are still the same; if anything, they've become even more perfected. Teams of economic hitmen and henchmen are sent into a country to sell everything that isn't nailed down to the highest bidder, but for the lowest price.

In order to achieve the last bit, all you need to do is write an agreement that is one on one contingent on an unrealistically high estimate of a group of assets, make sure their sale falls short of that estimate, and send in the hitmen again. And then you rinse and repeat until everything has been sold off. In Greece's case, it's all transport infrastructure first, because you know nobody really wants it, hence the sale price will be much lower than what the agreement called for, and in subsequent auctions you pick up the Acropolis and other national treasures.

Meanwhile, you raise taxes as much as you can, and then come back to do it again, while the public sector is gutted, along with health care, education and all those useless non-profitable parts of a society that benefit the people instead of the banks. Talking about banks, do we all still realize that all this is done to pay off debts to international banks that in many if not most cases would not even exist anymore if not for the tax revenues paid by the people of Greece, the rest of Europe, the US etc.? Or have we come to believe in "the recovery", do we now think it's real?

The reason the stock markets are up after the Greek austerity vote is that the IMF has managed yet another step in yet another step financial coup, and this one inside the European Union, no less. That offers great prospects for other weaker parts of Europe. If they can do it in Greece, they can do it in Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy. Unless people in one of these countries say NO, and a lot louder than the Greeks have done.

These things are set-ups. They have nothing to do with saving countries or their economies. They are plans to do the exact opposite: rape and pillage entire economies for the benefit of financial institutions. Read The Shock Doctrine, if you haven't yet, or re-read it if you have, and the patterns become grindingly clear.

Somehow, saddens me only. Serbia's lucky to have escaped the EU's Euro dragnet. Eastern oirope may not have been as lucky. Time for some small, courageous country to fight for its people and bite the bullet and default clean-and-mean. Leave the euro and walk into the storm. One can't outrun it anyway. A domino effect it may spur. Not even the bankers can forever control everything. Time to rock the boat. Hope and pray, biraders, hope and pray....

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 01 Jul 2011 06:54

Red Alert : The rat is leaving the sinking ship.

Geithner wants to join a bank and get rewarded with a multi-million dollar salary before the economy caves in. He knows the economy is headed for a crash.

The banks owe him huge favors for offloading their enormous losses onto the taxpayer's backs. He needs to collect his reward (overpaid job) from them soon before the fake recovery is revealed and the economy tanks.

It will look highly suspect if he gets a multi-million dollar pay package from a bank after the economy crashes. No bank will want to touch him then as as the public's mood will be hostile to any cushy job they offer him as a reward for having done their bidding. He has saddled the taxpayers with tons of crap banking debt which will go boom in the next crash on the taxpayer. He's also shielded the corrupt in banking & rating agencies from prosecution.

He said later he will stay for the 'foreseeable future' but I bet that won't be for long.

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US treasury secretary Geithner might quit after debt deal: Report

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 058297.cms

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 01 Jul 2011 07:38

Random acts of pizza

http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625 ... 77914.html

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 01 Jul 2011 08:09

Confessions of a Financial Deregulator: J. Bradford DeLong

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Jul 2011 11:34

other than tourism, fish, olives and grapes what is the niche occupied by greece in the world economy? with a population smaller than NCR and a harsh land unsuited for large scale agriculture, their condition would be little better than some struggling ex-yugoslav republic if not for the EU factor.

I guess their per capita income and living stds are going to witness a steady decline to north african / lebanese / syrian levels.

I feel sure chinese govt will be bottom fishing to establish a foothold

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 01 Jul 2011 12:36

we should take with a pinch of salt PRC's "intervention" in Europe. PRC is completely separated from Europe. there is a huge distance between the two. all the "agreements" are useless pieces of paper which will be discarded at first sign of trouble. whatever promises Greece or any other European country makes to PRC will be broken with impunity, and there is nothing PRC can do about that. it can't impose a military solution. it also can't impose an "international/political" solution. doing so would draw attention to the "evil Asian" causing suffering to "innocent Europeans." Europe has shown many times in past that they band together to keep foreigners out, regardless of their internal hatred. this time PRC making "interventionist" moves will draw huge backlash.

PRC has absolutely no power in Europe. it can't impose anything. it just has to rely on "goodwill," which is worth toilet paper these days.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Jul 2011 12:53

I was not talking of imposition but PRC cos owning major chunks of greek infra, ports, roadways...sure the greek state can take them over in a emergency but if the PRC has to weaken NATO and 'wean' away the flock the good place to start is greece, portugal, turkey and the set of newbie members in eastern europe.

the groundwork for events a few decades from now has to be carefully laid now.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 01 Jul 2011 13:53

I see the installation of that european woman Lagarde as head of IMF as a scandal.

Its a huge conflict of interest with debtor nations putting their candidate of choice in an institution supplying credit. This is one more nail in the IMF coffin which is an intitution skewed towards the interests of western countries only. They get easy bailout terms & conditions, others meanwhile are made to suffer for it.

India should never sign onto any international currency or international anything because it will merely be a means of transferring losses from west to east. Instead increase the purchase of physical gold which is what the world will ultimately gravitate to as such scandals like the one above become more frequent. Hope India does not wait till the 11th hour to do this as it will be too late.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 01 Jul 2011 22:05

I wonder if all the naatak baazi on Strauss-Kahn is French internal politics that played out on the international arena. Now that the new IMF chief is in, Strauss is let go. Very fishy.

paramu · Post by **paramu** » 02 Jul 2011 02:03

Check the timing of his release. It was done after new IMF chief was selected. That means, threat to USD through IMF SDR is eliminated.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 02 Jul 2011 02:49

Neshant wrote: Instead increase the purchase of physical gold which is what the world will ultimately gravitate to as such scandals like the one above become more frequent. Hope India does not wait till the 11th hour to do this as it will be too late.

Indians should start buying gold coins. IT guys are already buying into.
If 100 millions Indians start buying just one gold coin every month that should stabilize the Indian currency for long term

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 02 Jul 2011 04:13

Cross dressing Post

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/27 ... r-robinson
What it means for us
Today on Uncommon Knowledge, Michael Spence allays fears of a Chinese or Indian-controlled world in the future.Well, don’t forget we’re going to have two economic giants [India and China]. And between them and how they interact and how they discharge the responsibilities that go with their size and power will have a great deal to do with how the rest of us do…. But it is important that there’s going to be two.

Wacth the video

http://tv.nationalreview.com/uncommonknowledge/
Michael Spence argues that the U.S. “won’t be dominant forever
fellow at the Hoover Institution and a professor of economics at the New York University business school, Michael Spence is a winner of the 2001 Nobel Prize for economics. His latest book is The Next Convergence: The future of Economic Growth in a Multispeed World.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Jul 2011 05:36

Economic Collapse a Mathematical Certainty - Top 5 Places Where Not To Be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3-vwYJiD8g

Any sense?

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 02 Jul 2011 08:24

Senior trustee of US social security admits its a ponzi scheme!

People in their 20s, 30s and 40s paying in will get nowhere near what they put in - if anything at all.

There is a serious danger when politicians get involved in making promises of expropriating wealth of one segment of society for the benefit of another to get themselves elected. The irony is that many people paying into SS are poorer than those collecting SS today.

Everywhere I look, the system is fast running out of suckers. Banking goons trying to offload their losses, older generation trying to get someone to fund their retirement, govt running up debt hoping to offload the burden of paying it off on workers down the line...etc.

40% of every dollar being spent by US govt is borrowed. Surely this cannot end well.

This will surely not end well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITMEZImvNio

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 02 Jul 2011 11:25

Mr Keynes and the Moderns, by Professor Paul Krugman

Greece can be saved – here’s how to do it

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 02 Jul 2011 11:53

You're an idiot if you pay your bills on time in America.

Take a cue from the banking & financing "industry" and get a free ride.

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Newest Govt. Solution to Housing Mess: Free Money for Struggling Homeowners

Struggling to pay your mortgage? Late on your payments? In danger of being foreclosed? The federal government has cooked up a sweet deal that could result in a loan you don't have to repay.

The $1 Billion Emergency Homeowners Loan Program is the latest attempt by the Department of Housing and Urban Development to slow down the glut of foreclosures on the market. The program offers interest-free loans of up to $50,000 for people who have lost their jobs. The best part is the loans don't actually need to be repaid, in some cases.

Video :

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ti ... N0aG91c2lu

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 02 Jul 2011 12:20

Our Debt Binge Is Ending — And The Middle Class Will Get Clobbered

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ti ... -container

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 02 Jul 2011 12:36

Singha wrote:other than tourism, fish, olives and grapes what is the niche occupied by greece in the world economy? with a population smaller than NCR and a harsh land unsuited for large scale agriculture, their condition would be little better than some struggling ex-yugoslav republic if not for the EU factor.

I guess their per capita income and living stds are going to witness a steady decline to north african / lebanese / syrian levels.

I feel sure chinese govt will be bottom fishing to establish a foothold

Greece has always been an important player in the global shipping (as in ships, not aircrafts) industry. That is one of the key assets of Greece, but most of it cannot be used to pay off the debt as it is privately owned.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 03 Jul 2011 01:00

lately a thought went through my noodle.

what if the US with Arab petro countries cooperated in shifting the world from dollars to SDR (IMF special drawing rights) ?

i.e. force all countries to pay for oil in SDRs.

The US + western countries can fix (skew) the weightage of SDRs in favor of their currencies and offer India a raw deal.

For China it would be a plus. They'd get to diversify their enormous dollar reserves for SDRs. Countries like India however would be hurt as we don't have any significant dollar reserves and we get forced into an international currency that does not benefit us in any way.

Hope the babus are actively thinking about these end game scenarios rather than just reacting to it as it unfolds. I see a move to entrap lots of developing countries into a useless international currency by hook/crook to offload the debts of western economies onto their backs.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 03 Jul 2011 02:57

I can't seem to find the appropriate HISTORY thread to post this in. So please if you can find it, copy & paste this article there.

A staggering amount of gold has been found in an Indian temple. (equivalent to $11.5 billion USD) !!

One thing it attests to is that India was a rich country prior to the arrival of colonialists. The British would have cleaned it out had they found the hidden treasure.

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Rs50k crores worth treasure in Kerala temple
Ananthakrishan GAnanthakrishan G, TNN | Jul 2, 2011, 12.11am IST

The legend of El Dorado was definitely not set on the Sree Padmanabhaswamy temple. But the seven-member panel, which is drawing up a list of assets at the famed shrine here, had a feel of the lost city of gold as they set foot in one of the two secret vaults located inside the sprawling granite structure which gives the Kerala capital its name.

On Thursday, the team assisted by personnel from the fire services and archeology department opened the locks of vault A to find a narrow flight of stairs leading down to an underground granite cellar. Oxygen was pumped frequently into the chamber and artificial lighting provided to enable the observers to work inside.

What they saw inside was startling, sources said. Gold coins dating back thousands of years, gold necklaces as long as nine feet and weighing about 2.5 kg, about one tonne of the yellow metal in the shape of rice trinkets, sticks made of the yellow metal, sack full of diamonds, gold ropes, thousands of pieces of antique jewellery studded with diamonds and emeralds, crowns and other precious stones lay scattered in the chamber marked 'A'.

Friday threw up far more surprises in the form of 17 kg of gold coins dating back to the East India Company period, 18 coins from Napolean's era, precious stones wrapped in silk bundles besides over 1,000 kg of gold in the form of coins and trinkets and a small elephant made of the yellow metal, sources said.

There were also sovereigns bearing the 1772 seal indicating they were from the reign of the then native king Karthika Thirunal Rama Varma. There are a total of six vaults marked A to F in the shrine. The A and B cellars have never opened since 1872.

Reports said the value of the recoveries so far from vault A alone may exceed over Rs 50,000 crore. This doesn't take into account their antique value. With chamber B, yet to be opened, speculation was rife that the shrine would pip Tirupati Balaji, who too has been assessed at a little more than Rs 50,000 crore to a distant second. No official confirmation has been forthcoming on the value of the recoveries.

Retired Kerala high court judges — Justice M N Krishnan and Justice C S Rajan — appointed observers by the Supreme Court said, ''It's difficult to give an exact date about when the stock-taking would be completed. The B and E vaults remain to be opened. We think it may take another week.''

Asked about the value of the assets, Justice Krishnan said the committee was drawing up the inventory of items and were not determining their price. The panel had set out on the job on June 27 and opened three vaults marked C, D and F till Wednesday. Assets found in these chambers were estimated to be worth over Rs 1,000 crore.

The wealth discovery has raised questions on the shrine's security. As of now, the internal security is managed by the temple employees, but this may be inadequate in the light of the events.

GOD'S OWN BOOTY

* Gold coins dating back thousands of years, gold necklaces as long as 9 feet and weighing 2.5 kg; one tonne of gold in the shape of rice trinkets; sticks made of gold, sack full of diamonds, gold ropes and thousands of pieces of jewellery studded with diamonds and emeralds

* 17 kg of gold coins dating back to the East India Company period; 18 coins from Napolean's era, precious stones wrapped in silk bundles besides over 1,000 kg of gold in form of coins and trinkets and a small elephant made of gold

* The value of recoveries from vault A alone may exceed over Rs 50,000 cr. With chamber B yet to be opened, speculation is rife the shrine would pip Tirupati Balaji's assets, which too has been assessed at over Rs 50,000 crore

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 069757.cms

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 03 Jul 2011 02:57

Treasure worth 'billions' found in Sree Padmanabhaswamy temple India
AAP July 02, 2011 8:28PM

A TREASURE trove of gold and silver jewellery, coins and precious stones said to be worth billions of dollars has been found in a Hindu temple in southern India.

The valuables have an estimated preliminary worth of over 500 billion rupees ($10.49 billion), Kerala Chief Secretary K. Jayakumar said, catapulting the temple into the league of India's richest temples.

The thousands of necklaces, coins and precious stones have been kept in at least five underground vaults at the Sree Padmanabhaswamy Temple which is renowned for its intricate sculptures.

"We are yet to open one more secret chamber which has not been opened for nearly 140 years," Mr Jayakumar said.

The actual value of the treasure haul can be ascertained only after it is examined by the archaeological department, Mr Jayakumar said.

The temple, dedicated to Hindu lord Vishnu, was built hundreds of years ago by the king of Travancore and donations by devotees have been kept in the temple's vaults since.

A necklace found on Thursday was six metres long. Thousands of gold coins have also been found.

Since India achieved independence from Britain in 1947, a trust managed by descendants of the Travancore royal family has controlled the temple.

But India's Supreme Court recently ordered that the temple be managed by the state to ensure the security of valuables at the shrine.

Until now, the Thirupathy temple in southern Andhra Pradesh state was believed to be India's richest temple with offerings from devotees worth 320 billion rupees ($6.6 billion).

The revelation about the huge riches in the Padmanabhaswamy temple has forced police to sharply step install security cameras and alarms.

Authorities also plan to set up a commando force for security, Kerala director general of police Jacob Punnoose said.

"Now it's known all over the world that the Padmanabhaswamy temple has jewels worth billions of rupees we have decided to assign it maximum security," Kerala Chief Minister Oommen Chandy said.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/breakin ... 6086319217

sumishi · Post by **sumishi** » 03 Jul 2011 09:05

Neshant wrote:lately a thought went through my noodle.

what if the US with Arab petro countries cooperated in shifting the world from dollars to SDR (IMF special drawing rights) ?
i.e. force all countries to pay for oil in SDRs.

The US + western countries can fix (skew) the weightage of SDRs in favor of their currencies and offer India a raw deal.

For China it would be a plus. They'd get to diversify their enormous dollar reserves for SDRs. Countries like India however would be hurt as we don't have any significant dollar reserves and we get forced into an international currency that does not benefit us in any way.
...

IMO, the bonking cartel is shepherding the global situation to make the move towards the SDR/ Bancor (or some other digital international currency) acceptable, by pummeling first the Euro, and then the Dollar to remove its status as the world reserve currency. [order out of chaos??].
Once the digital world reserve currency is in place, they will have total manipulatory control of the world economies.

IMV again, Arab countries are not cooperating. Their leaders are being taken down to be replaced by a coterie of newer pliable ones to create an oil crisis (and raise prices) by throttling production. Meanwhile, the world's largest oil rig (the Liberty, http://www.offshore-technology.com/proj ... y-project/) in Alaska is being readied for production 2012-13, so that moolah can be raked in at the higher prices.

India will definitely get a raw deal. It HAS to bolster its domestic production capacities in all spheres.

Neshant wrote:...
Hope the babus are actively thinking about these end game scenarios rather than just reacting to it as it unfolds. I see a move to entrap lots of developing countries into a useless international currency by hook/crook to offload the debts of western economies onto their backs.

Fat chance!! What can you expect from those who could not get the linkage between the spiralling inflation since long and the global rise in price of oil and commodities, thinking that RBI tweaking and other such finger twiddling can rope in inflation. Prices will keep on going up, and we will keep losing our purchasing power.

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 03 Jul 2011 09:58

Neshant wrote:Treasure worth 'billions' found in Sree Padmanabhaswamy temple India
...
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/breakin ... 6086319217

Somnath temple was raided several times for its wealth. Now the foolish administration of India & Kerala let the future looters know where to loot when they get the next chance, even if that takes a century.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 03 Jul 2011 10:20

ramana wrote:Economic Collapse a Mathematical Certainty - Top 5 Places Where Not To Be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3-vwYJiD8g

Any sense?

Makes some sense in bits and pieces though some of his conclusions are non sequitor and others are quite a stretch. I'd say, listen with some salt and pepper.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Jul 2011 11:17

there will be loud calls for uber sikularists and kangress that all these wealth be sold and 'used' by the govt to 'benefit the people' (as in sponsoring more madrasas and spending more freebies on Hajj tourism )

the wealth being stored in the temple should belong to the temple, I would imagine all of it be kept in a museum rather than any short term spending.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 03 Jul 2011 11:46

Much more likely it will end up in a museum like Salar Jung and endless court battles and wails and 4th generation divorcees fighting for their fair share, etc....

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 03 Jul 2011 13:02

I'm sure its a huge amount of gold and precious items. But take the dollar claims with a grain of salt. They might be over-estimating its worth. If not, its one hell of a booty.

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Rs 75,000 cr and counting: More treasure tumbles out of shrine
Ananthakrishnan GAnanthakrishnan G, TNN | Jul 3, 2011, 01.18am IST

THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: Treasure continued to tumble out of the Sree Padmanabha Swamy temple here on Saturday with a Supreme Court-appointed committee finding more gold idols, coins and other assets on the sixth day of inspection in the shrine's hidden vaults.

Among the notable discoveries was an ancient gold idol of Lord Vishnu studded with precious diamonds and emeralds. Sources said its value could not be assessed due to its antiquity. There were also human figurines made of pure gold, each weighing 1 kg as well as 18-foot-long jewelery weighing 35 kg used to adorn the deity. Bags of coins and precious stones were also found in the chamber marked A.

Unconfirmed reports said the total value of all assets recovered from the shrine could be worth Rs 75,000 crore.

The temple has six vaults marked A to F. On Saturday, the committee completed stock taking in vault A. They had already drawn up the inventory of items in C, D and F. The B chamber, which hasn't been unsealed after 1872, and the E vault remain to be opened. The inspection will continue on Monday.

The state police has decided to put in place a three-tier security for the shrine which has emerged as the richest in India. Additional Director General of Police Venugopal K Nair, who is given charge of the temple security, said "We have only begun the process. A detailed plan will be put in place soon."

At present, two platoons of special armed police have been deployed for the shrine's security.

Acting on a petition, the Kerala high court had in January asked the state government to take over the administration of the temple and also prepare aninvetory of its assets. The shrine is run by a trust constituted by the royal family. On appeal, the SC stayed the take over part but gave nod to stock-taking.

History has it that the shrine is inextricably linked to the Travancore royal family. The erstwhile ruler of Travancore Marthanda Varma had dedicated the state and all his wealth to the deity and ruled as 'Padmanabha Dasa (servant of Padmanabha), who consequently gained the status of nominal head or 'perumal.

According to legend, the Travancore kings had transferred loads of wealth, meant for use during famines to these secret chambers to protect them from the British.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 081681.cms

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Jul 2011 15:29

I read somewhere 200 camels were used to cart back all the valuables looted from the somnath temple.

so one can imagine the total scale of loot and devastation of hindu shrines in north india by the islamic invaders and then the east india company who apart from levying crushing taxes always had an eye to cart away anything that was not hidden and welded down.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 03 Jul 2011 16:10

India would find itself in the place of Libya today if it did not have the means to defend this wealth.

The modern day version of the jehadist or colonialist are banking & financing goons trying to drain wealth from nations through paper scams & schemes.

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 04 Jul 2011 00:15

Theo_Fidel wrote:Much more likely it will end up in a museum like Salar Jung and endless court battles and wails and 4th generation divorcees fighting for their fair share, etc....

Royal family of Travancore is different. They didn't even enter politics, except for one princess joining Janata Dal for a brief period.

Neshant wrote:I'm sure its a huge amount of gold and precious items. But take the dollar claims with a grain of salt. They might be over-estimating its worth. If not, its one hell of a booty.

Royal family of Travancore ruled the country as Sree Padmanabha Dasa - i.e. he was the representative of Sree Padmanabha and ruled Travancore on his behalf. The discovery of this huge wealth inside the temple indicates that they were true to their word, all the royal treasures were given to Sree Padmanabha and not kept at their palaces. Now these are temple properties and temples are not museums.

After this incident my faith in Indian monarchy has gone up few notches, where as that in democracy is going down after seeing incidents at different parts of world.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 04 Jul 2011 00:28

Last OT from me. Travancore kingdom was always different. Don't equate it to other monarchies.

Lets not get too sentimental how ever. Their treatment of lower communities was particularly reprehensible. Present generation of royals like to pretend these things did not happen. One reason Kanya Kumari & their original capital Padmanabhapuram is now in TN. Around here, it is good riddance. We thank the creation of India in its present form every day. Some of that wealth was undoubtedly taken from here, a deeply impoverished place back then. Belongs to more than the temple IMO.

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 04 Jul 2011 01:07

May be people are forgetting the looting and taxation done by British that caused poverty in most parts of India. In Kerala, princely states of Travancore and Cochin were better off than Malabar that was part of Madras state. Things changed after independence, and may be formation of Kerala state also helped.

PS: Please move these posts to appropriate thread.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 04 Jul 2011 01:38

er, Shyam-saar, Theo-saar is right and I agree with him. Very OT, but I was about to post in Maverick-saar's blog about humbly requesting not making light of Shree Baba Ramdev's yoga efforts, even if one dont like his anti-govt stances, because Travancore did something very mean to a great teacher from a subaltern background and frankly, I wish it never happened and there is a collective guilt amongst some of us from Trivandrum.

Goes like: There used to be this Travancore king about 150 years ago, who is still celebrated as one of the finest musicians and composers of South India. I think he was a truly great monarch in so many things, but he had a huge, not so visible scar in his dharmic edifice. He f**ked up the life of a certain Seer from the village of Swamithoppe(south of Trivandrum city, very near Theo-saar's NCJ place). The king probably got terrible advice from the spiritual and political leadeship close to the Travancore monarchy. The Seer was hounded, tortured and in general treated in a way not worthy of a human, let alone a great teacher of his people. His "Way of the Father" adherents were laughed at and persecuted for sometime for their mythology and practices by the establishment figuers including highly intellectual people who should have known better. But later on, I believe better sense prevailed when the British started sniffing around and things started gong down the tubes. But great, great harm was already done and when the Guru attained Samadhi, an entire section of Travancore's subjects remained pissed. Remember, these are subjects who were and still are kickass in everything from trade to agriculture to military prowess.

Fortunately, almost exactly a century later, the last monarch out of Trivandrum did not make the same mistake, when another great teacher called Sree Narayana Guru graced Trivandrum with his presence. He was left alone and we still have a proud class of people who feels they "belong to Kerala". Infact the electoral politics demands they "rule" (as the last CM can attest

)

Theo-saar, I am not sure if you meant those episodes. Not that it matters now, but I can only say sorry, that all that shyte happened.

I am not against corruption blindly, as I feel corruption is a way of broadbrushing any alternative system to mainly western business/monetary practices in a black tint. It sort of prevents emergence of any Indian system stemming out of Indian needs. Rather, I feel it tries to fix Indian issues within the framework of western systems, which in turn leads to further issues. So I neither support nor oppose both the anti-corruption leaders. But making light of a prominent self-made and subaltern-turned-mainstream spiritual leader like Baba Ramdev at a personality level is a sure recipe for disaster, that we in Trivandrum are acutely aware of. Just thought I should post this in this thread, though OT.