The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

[UBanerjee]

UID - Universal Implication Device. Makes it so much more easier to construct electronic trails and create cases against undesirable political or business opponents. Of course MMSji would vouch for it!

A prelude to The Mark of the Beast?

Code: Select all

“He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”

: Revelation 13:16-17

Who cares what is said in Revelations

[somnath]

Fiery responses from the political class!

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/govt- ... e/812361/0

There are merits in what is being said, though not what Farooq Abdullah said...Hopefully, the Select Committee of Parliament will finish its job quickly and send in a draft that deals with the rough edges...

[Dhiman]

UID - Universal Implication Device. Makes it so much more easier to construct electronic trails and create cases against undesirable political or business opponents. Of course MMSji would vouch for it!

The problem is not such technologies, procedures, and policies as these can be a boon in the right hands. The problem is that an under-emphasis on punishing the wrong doers or just letting them slide by will undoubtedly lead to such technologies, procedures, and policies falling under the control of wrong hands and their eventual misuse.

The 2G scam was a result of a conspiracy hatched by powerful politicians, media, and business to subvert the will of the people. There is no guarantee that the same thing will not be done with LokPal at a future date. So problems are not eliminated by creating more powerful institutions (as these can always fall in wrong hands), but by getting rid of "wrong hands."

The emphasis, to any solution, should always be on placing the right people and discouraging the wrong once and this is why deterrent punishment is important. The very first criteria MUST involve finding the right people do the job. In case of running the country, "right people" means those who are willing to put the will of the people before themselves and this is where GoI seems to be most lacking.

Ultimately, all this talk of policies, procedure, and technologies is a pure distraction away from the real job of finding the corrupt and removing them from the system quickly.

The corrupt exists, because the system tolerates the corrupt. Find a few of them at all levels of government and hang them, rest assured the corruption problem will end overnight and the corrupt will be falling over each other in a race to return money to government coffers.

[Sanku]

Fiery responses from the political class!

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/govt- ... e/812361/0

There are merits in what is being said, though not what Farooq Abdullah said...Hopefully, the Select Committee of Parliament will finish its job quickly and send in a draft that deals with the rough edges...

A very interesting division.

SP and Lalu join the Congress in bad mouthing Anna team. Mamta is not keen on it either.

BJP continues to not say anything. BSP toes BJP line.

TDP, INLD ask for PM under lokpal.

This is turning into a proper Ruler vs ruled type of situation with Congress and cronies on one side and everybody else on other.

[chetak]

Purposely and carefully planned loophole, executed and exploited with finesse. Every small time connected joker has his hand in the till and dipping his beak with vigor!!

Please excuse the mixed metaphors.

No wonder "civil society" is incensed!!

By the way, forecasting that both kejriwal and bedi will be making it to parliament soon a la shabana azmi, wanting to "make a difference"


Stealing from the poor --- Loophole in law allows misuse of farm credit

Lack of foresight on the part of policy-makers and poor monitoring of loan distribution has resulted in money being either diverted to the non-agricultural sector or, worse still, being usurped by rich farmers who have no need for subsidised loans. Consequently, what was first introduced as an initiative to help the poor and develop the agricultural sector which forms nearly 30 per cent of India’s GDP has now degenerated into a widespread corruption racket that only serves to line the pockets of the unscrupulous rich. Of course, there are several explanations for why money earmarked for the poor is being routinely siphoned off by the not-so-poor: Primary among them is the significant difference in interest rates. While the aforementioned agricultural loans are available at a nominal four per cent rate of interest, industrial credit is usually a whole lot more expensive as it can attract interests rates as high as 10 to 17 per cent.

[Arjun]

Fiery responses from the political class!

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/govt- ... e/812361/0

From the report....

Meanwhile, Team Anna came under concerted attack during the three-hour long meeting. National Conference chief Farooq Abdullah sought to drive home the point that money is needed to contest elections. “Everybody needs money. Why didn’t political parties tell Ramdev and Hazare to go to hell?” he was reported to have said.

Can somebody explain the point that Abdullah was making ? Was he justifying corruption as long as it was for party purposes ?

[ShauryaT]

B ji, apologies for the late response but am pressed for time.

ShauryaT ji,
you have missed the crucial point I made - that "constitutional coups" can have a pre-emptive role. I gave two specific examples - one that of reservations based on created/imagined subidentities and the other that of special protection of exclusivist claims of the Christian and the Islamic while "reforming" the Hindu. Once managed through the initial Constitutional coup - when all non-Congress [even Congress elements not licking Nehruvian boots] forces were practically eliminated from politics by a strange coincidence of selective repression and focused Islamist violence on regions most likely to challenge Nehruvian authority - these two things were done within the "legal/constitutional" framework you mention.

But having done that, it set up an irreversible process of hardening of new identity subgroups that helped to permanently fracture Indian polity, in its turn creating captive entrenched interest groups that have been successfully used by the Congress and allied Leftist forces to dominate the rashtra. You can see that even your "nationalists" cannot really challenge this fracture, and have been forced to talk the "Congress" talk of tolerance of "diversity" which really is not about diversity.

It is not diversity because these political forces which dominate the rashtryia apparatus - only selectively bashes the Hindu or perceived Hindu infrastructure, but never ever any bashing of the two proselytizing branches of the Abrahamic. You can even see that on the forum.

So constitution could be a form of a legal-pretension coup by a small subgroup that simply creates new fractions and sets in processes which are irreversible in the sense that they can never again really be challenged within the "constitution". In that sense it therefore may clash with democracy and democratic reflection of the values of a country or a civilization.

It may seem that way but there is more to it than meets the eye. Let me try to state my case.

Let us look closely at the two examples you have provided.

1. Reservations. It is certainly a tragedy that an edifice of the British devised caste system, who’s primary purpose was to divide and colonize India has been used as the building blocks around which, this key aspect of social reform was to be attained.

Certain items of article 15 and 16, that enable these type of reservations (due to the first amendment) were introduced that set the ball rolling for not only for initial 22% reservations for SC/ST but the future reservations for OBC post Mandal and recently for women and an attempt to even extend it to religious minorities. The debate of merit versus social equality, which comes up again and again, was well known to JLN and he clearly compromised on the issue, even though his wish was to have these provisions applied “temporarily”.

The question then becomes, why is it that instead of the original compromise for SC/ST, which was envisioned, as “temporary” was not rolled back and instead this monster of reservations was perpetuated to other socially “disadvantaged” groups. Why is it that the idea of Merit did not win over?

The answer to these will help us understand it further. It is a known fact that politicians would love to create bankable electorates – even if the so called reforms in favor of these groups, are actually harmful to these very groups and to wider society.

The legislative power to create reservations would be toothless, were it not for the executive power to pass out some doles by way of jobs in PSU and government departments to some to create a bankable electorate group.

As soon as the principle of equality was compromised the flood gates were then open to make other compromises.

Were it not for the power of the politicians to pass on the carrots in such a direct and brazen manner this monster of reservations would never have taken off.

The way out is to repeal these provision of article 15 and 16 that compromise on equality and move any reservations to be strictly on economic criteria only. But, before we get there it is the power of politicians to be in the business of business is what sustains all of this and this needs to be severely arrested.

2. Special Protection for Minorities: Article 29 and 30, that deal with the special privileges of minorities should be done away with and you already have the BJP committed to a uniform civil code – all that is needed is the votes for it.

So, while the votes may not be there today, it is not that these acts are not reversible. In fact, I see vibrant debate on these and it may take some time but the chance for such changes clearly exits and hence I remain hopeful.

The mantra I follow is I will support any government that 1. Gets the government out of the business of business. 2. Arrests subsidies and fiscal deficit 3. Commits to devolution of powers to the states and local governments and separates the executive from the legislature (read structural reforms).

[ShauryaT]

Harbans wrote

I'm not so sure Shaurya Ji, there are people who don't know exactly what means to get what they are clamoring for. Removing Gaddaffi or Mubarak may be a very big effort in the ME. Removing Sonia and party may not be so here. Every elections we have what they call a 'revolution' in the ME. Indeed the word 'revolution' is quite subjective, but many here, and of course including members of the Civil society too are not looking at pressurizing the set up to do the needful. All this extra big brother lookout organizations may achieve is stalling at the status quo.

Decision making may come to a virtual halt for fear. Worse is people with fascist leanings becoming power centers by the next elections. B Raman sort of hints at the unpredictable outcome if this is not handled well. I see everyone accepting that corruption should end and good governance should be there. I think no one in their right mind denies that. But i see lots of divide in how it is to be accomplished and what is to be accomplished.

Two quick points Harbans ji. The fear of “fascist” leaning power centers by next election is a non sequitur, B. Raman ji's views notwithstanding.

The divide and debate of how to accomplish a structure for good governance should be a matter of hot debate for our society. If this debate takes many more years - we should be patient. My only prayer is we debate this in context of our experiences and the nature of our society and where we want to be and less through the eyes and experiences of others, while drawing key applicable lessons.

The Lok Pal is a reactive measure in order to provide some sorely needed medicine, to a seriously sick patient. It may help a little but what this body needs is a transplant of some key organs.

[ShauryaT]

>>Arjun
>>If 'democratic' principles result in a conflict with the basic 'liberal' principles of this country - there could potentially be a case where obtaining redressal 'within the democratic system' might not be feasible.

No doubt and hence the need for a narrow constitution that largely lays down some basic principles only and a government that is committed to protecting and ensuring that these principles are never under serious threat.

The debate on what these principles ought to be has not even begun in India. The word liberal makes sense if you have something conservative and institutionalized in an existing structure (such as a monarch / church / Clergy) to protect against. IMO, Liberalism is not a direct issue for India.

[shyam]

Fiery responses from the political class!

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/govt- ... e/812361/0

From the report....

Meanwhile, Team Anna came under concerted attack during the three-hour long meeting. National Conference chief Farooq Abdullah sought to drive home the point that money is needed to contest elections. “Everybody needs money. Why didn’t political parties tell Ramdev and Hazare to go to hell?” he was reported to have said.

Can somebody explain the point that Abdullah was making ? Was he justifying corruption as long as it was for party purposes ?

What he says is that democracy has corruption built into it.

[amit]

The divide and debate of how to accomplish a structure for good governance should be a matter of hot debate for our society. If this debate takes many more years - we should be patient. My only prayer is we debate this in context of our experiences and the nature of our society and where we want to be and less through the eyes and experiences of others, while drawing key applicable lessons.

The Lok Pal is a reactive measure in order to provide some sorely needed medicine, to a seriously sick patient. It may help a little but what this body needs is a transplant of some key organs.

A big +1 this.

Irrespective of the pros and cons and practicability of what Team Anna is demanding, the very fact that we are having this debate and show time in Delhi is, IMO, a commentary of the slow maturing of our society, specifically civil society. IMO 10 years ago we wouldn't have this debate, that with civil society on one side and the political class on the other. If such a movement had been launched it would have been done so by one political group against another.

Hopefully we will at some point of time get to a end point on this debate which would result in more checks and balances on the political class. Democracy needs money to keep it well oiled. But that money doesn't have to be gotten illegitimately if proper institutional frameworks can be worked out. That is still a work in progress and the Lok Pal Bill is a way station not the end of the journey.

JMT

[somnath]

The big issue is to ensure that the delicate balance of powers between the various layers of government are maintained...The AH proposals are sound in idealism, less so in terms of preserving the same...Someone has to sit with the broad principles and thrash through a viable draft - no better place than the Parliament to do so..

About corruption in general, some people here dont want to acknoeledge it (in face of overwhelming data), but the key determinant of the same is discretionary powers and complicated rules (which in turn make for more discretioanry powers)...The solution to that is a hard grind, sector by sector, fundamental reforms...If people spent half the energy in pressurising govts to do the needful (there is a big outstanding list there) as they do to badmouth MMS et al - there might be something useful coming out of the process...

[harbans]

Again we have an example given in the Pioneer link by Chetak ji that demonstrates the 'corruption' issue:

Lack of foresight on the part of policy-makers and poor monitoring of loan distribution has resulted in money being either diverted to the non-agricultural sector or, worse still, being usurped by rich farmers who have no need for subsidised loans. Consequently, what was first introduced as an initiative to help the poor and develop the agricultural sector which forms nearly 30 per cent of India’s GDP has now degenerated into a widespread corruption racket that only serves to line the pockets of the unscrupulous rich.

.......

To stop the abuse of farm credit, this loophole needs to plugged, first and foremost. Low interest farm credit must only be offered to poor farmers and the Government should introduce a differential interest rate card for such loans. Otherwise, money meant for the poor and the disadvantaged will continue to be stolen by the deceitful, just like it has happened for years together. It is no secret that ration cards that are meant for BPL families so that they can purchase subsidised foodgrains are routinely abused by middle class Indians who can afford to buy designer bags and luxury cars but will not pay the market price for rice, wheat and pulses. In the process, they shamelessly steal from the poor and indeed, from the country, as do farmers who misuse farm loans.

No 'danda' alone as 'solution' will solve the problem. The laws are good intentioned but still compulsively engender corruption. The only thing in such a scenario that works is 'plugging the loop holes'. Ironically it's the upright, incorruptible left socialist mindset that engendered these laws to be made (albeit with good intentions) in the first place without much thought to it's consequences. The 'utopian' assumption is always that 'upright' people will make the organization work despite whatever flaws and loopholes in it.

The divide and debate of how to accomplish a structure for good governance should be a matter of hot debate for our society.

Shaurya T Ji, i have been saying that for some time now. But the focus as one can see is clearly only on the 'Danda' aspect for rooting out 'corruption'. IMHO 'Danda' to root corruption is non sequitur if policy changes are not addressed as depicted in the Pioneer article above.

Why i mentioned the 'fascist' is the precise irony that the very forces that got in such laws in the first place, however good intentioned belong to the socialist left spectrum. These are the very forces that are also opposed to reform, policy change and are aggressively vocal about it. We have had for the first time i see a clamor and a very vocal one too on BRF demanding the usurpation of the Indian Constitution with many takers here. The initial draft of the JLPB that was being thrust by AH and party is truly horrifying.

Ironically if the people who believe in the addition of an unaccountable extra constitutional power structure that presides over the executive, legislature and the Judiciary and some of which are currently leading the 'Civil section of society do decide to form a political wing they will ride in with the wave of disgust. They did try and push that agenda through the first version of the JLPB. That's the sort of development that B Raman possibly hints at. If that sort of Party does come into the political picture, forget growth, reform. Ironically it's these very utopian left socialist elements that are most vocal against corruption, that pressed into making the laws and policies that actually engender corruption as shown in the pioneer example. In Power, even partly they are more likely to reverse policy reform and bring in strict 'Danda' than remove the basics that cause corruption.

[harbans]

About corruption in general, some people here dont want to acknoeledge it (in face of overwhelming data), but the key determinant of the same is discretionary powers and complicated rules (which in turn make for more discretioanry powers)...The solution to that is a hard grind, sector by sector, fundamental reforms...If people spent half the energy in pressurising govts to do the needful (there is a big outstanding list there) as they do to badmouth MMS et al - there might be something useful coming out of the process...

Absolutely, however the hard part is not the agenda of some who are using this drive. That very reform has been opposed tooth and nail by some of the hardest campaigners against 'corruption'. That's the reason a lot of people in the anti corruption debate are only stressing, re stressing the 'danda' element with nary a lip service to reform etc. Then we are really going nowhere with this issue.

[somnath]

A good example of what happens when there is wide-scale inaction due to fear...

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/on-ye ... e/812279/0

Let’s take the proposed locomotive factories to be bid out by the railways in Madhepura and Marhowrah. Conceived during the tenure of UPA 1 by Lalu Prasad, these projects were again brought to the table by Mamata Banerjee. She finally decided to bid out these projects. But the government is still working on the financial bid conditions. A senior government official, who does not wish to be named, says that it’s a one-of-a-kind project, making financial bidding very difficult. To be structured as a public private partnership, the Railways will hold a minority stake in the proposed company and will also be the sole customer over the next 15-20 years. How to price the locomotives to be supplied over a long tenure is turning out to a tricky proposition, calling for innovative solutions. But, those sitting on the decision are refusing to take a call, fearing a decision today could land them in Tihar a couple of years after they retire. So, they would rather choose to retire than sign on any proposal.

PSU managers have expressed fear of 3 C's - CBI, CVC and CAG - for ages...

These cannot be tackled by "revolutions", they need hard policy interventions taken by a confident, decisive govt..Unfortunaely, the narrative has gotten spoilt...

[joshvajohn]

No faith in govt, SC appoints special team to trail blackmoney
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/no-fa ... ey/812533/

[Arjun]

As has been discussed earlier, large-scale corruption arises due to three areas where the government has discretionary power-

1. Policies, licenses and clearances that effect business
2. Allocation of resources (including natural resources, spectrum etc) by the government to businesses
3. Government and PSU contracts & spending power

Agree with Harbansji that having a Lokpal maybe a necessary but not a sufficient condition for addressing large-scale corruption.

In addition to the Lokpal position, what is also required is

- An independant regulatory agency for allocation of each individual resource (spectrum, coal, oil etc). This addresses Issue 2 above

- Guidelines to all government and PSU purchase executives that encourage best practices and processes to be followed in enhancing transparency & accountability, while simultaneously recognizing that discretionary power can never be completely removed and speed of decision making is vital in business. This addresses Issue 3

- Process of bringing about complete transparency and objectivity for all licenses & clearances. However the system has to allow for discretionary power on a case-by-case basis based on certain due process being followed. This partly addresses Issue 1.

- A system for regularizing and bringing transparency to electoral and party funding. It is apparent that economic policies are often determined based on business lobbies and parties obtain funding from businesses based on their degree of alignment with these lobbies. This process needs more transparency and regularization.

It would be best if the Lokpal authority were to also be made responsible for pushing the executive on these matters - and also give weightage to these considerations while considering individual cases of corruption.

[somnath]

It would be best if the Lokpal authority were to also be made responsible for pushing the executive on these matters - and also give weightage to these considerations while considering individual cases of corruption.

While its good that the ranks of those who believe in the primacy of change institutional frameworks and polciies in tackling corruption is increasing (!), Lokpal as economic czar?!

As it is, we have an issue where the Lokpal is a designated policeman with some judicial powers (something that the legal eagles need to sort out in some manner) , now we are to have Lokpal framing economic policies?

Above all other issues with that proposition, executive (and legislative) decision-making cannot be in the hands of a bunch of unelected bureaucrats...

[harbans]

Somnath Ji, frankly Arjun Ji has been pretty consistent on the need for policy reform and the thrust of the post i agree with mostly.

But you're correct in that an unelected Lokpal suggesting the executive on what broad or otherwise economic policies to follow may be laced with danger, however within the broad economic policy framework of the Govt it may be possible for the executive to entertain non-binding notes and suggestions from the Lok Pal on how to create more transparency and strengthen existing GOI institutional frameworks.

- An independant regulatory agency for allocation of each individual resource (spectrum, coal, oil etc). This addresses Issue 2 above

Absolutely. What we see that the scams are being exposed after these things happen. The dangers of the CWG and Telecom spectrum allocations were intimated we see to the PM but nothing was done. Instead it would be advisable to re route the same notes in cc to a regulatory mechanism to verify if the procedures are above board. The discrepancies in such allocation must be exposed dynamically as the occur and not just in hindsight, which too is a positive though.

- Guidelines to all government and PSU purchase executives that encourage best practices and processes to be followed in enhancing transparency & accountability, while simultaneously recognizing that discretionary power can never be completely removed and speed of decision making is vital in business. This addresses Issue 3

THis is of vital importance, specially the one in bolded part. Both the above are excellent models to address these issues. The focus and the list as done by Arjun Ji should be expanded to include many Ministries and areas. That is where the hard focus of creating good governance lies. Good post there Arjun ji.

[kmkraoind]

Hands off the treasures that belong to Lord Vishnu - Firstpost - R Vaidyanathan

Deserved to be posted in full and as usual any article posted by R. Vaidyanathan garu are worth reading it in full.

The news has been splashed from Auckland to Alaska. The temples of India contain several billion dollars worth of treasures. The opening of the vaults in the Sri Padnamanabhaswamy temple in Thiruvananthapuram, Kerala, according to a court order comes at a dangerous time for our polity.

The mainstream media continues to sensationalise the size of the treasure. One of them gushes that “treasures tumble out of the temple” — as though this is illegal money stashed in the Cayman Islands. Let’s be clear: these treasures were donated by the temple’s devotees over centuries, and rightfully belong to Lord Vishnu, who cannot even be fully seen from any angle by devotees. He is the true owner of this wealth and this truth should be internalised.

It is unfortunate that this discovery should take place in Kerala, where the percentage of idol-worshippers is a minority – if one excluded Muslims, Christians and Marxists from the fold. The mere act of opening up the vaults and tunnels is thus fraught with significant dangers for Hindu society and our ancient civilisation.

The present times are most inappropriate to try to list the billions of rupees worth of diamonds and rubies and sapphires owned by our temples. We all know that a significant portion of our politicians have a criminal background and even parts of the judiciary are corrupt. The bureaucracy is compromised by a saga of loot and plunder.

In this context, where government finances are completely out of alignment with revenue realities, the temptation will be to use these invaluable treasures to fulfill the insatiable personal and political greed of our politicians to fund populist schemes like “food security” for all with resources belonging to Lord Vishnu. Already more than 80% of the incomes of major temples is used for “secular” causes rather than for “sacred” purposes.

The opening of the vaults in the Sri Padnamanabhaswamy temple in Thiruvananthapuram, Kerala, according to a court order comes at a dangerous time for our polity. Reuters

It is not improbable that some jholawala economist will calculate — by dividing his mobile number with the pin code — that more than 70% of the people below poverty line can be lifted out of poverty if only this money is available to the government. The unaccountable civil society group under Sonia Gandhi – also called the National Advisory Council — might formulate a bill (since they are the law framers in the present dispensation) to open up all vaults from the Amarnath to Ayappa temples and from Somnath to Kamakhya.

There will be half-baked debates about using it for “social justice”. The only people who can have some say on this wealth are those who visit the temple on a daily basis and who can chant, in this case, the Vishnu Sahasranamam. I am not even sure if those who are counting these treasures are eligible to deal with the “sacred” on the orders of the “secular”. One can say that this is the last battle waged by Nehruvian secularists against the ‘sacred” even though, in this particular case, it might appear to be a simple case of counting.

Actually counting, enumerating and documenting are secular ways of dealing with sacred treasures in our temples, since the sacred is never documented but just observed and meditated upon.

Some imported white or brown non-resident Indian expert will suggest a way of leveraging these billions and even propose investing a part of it in our stock markets to propel second generation reforms.

Wall Street bankers, with colorful ties and multiple lies, should be tremendously interested. The wealth seen in temples becomes a target for jehadi terrorists and Wall Street bankers – who are no different except for the kind of killing they go for. The memories of the plunder of Somnath are embedded in the brain cells of every citizen of this country.

Let us be clear. The town and the temple are already marked by global terrorists. The Kerala home minister says he will increase the number of pot-bellied constables to protect the treasures, as if the global jehadis can be handled by them.

Quite clearly, this is the most inappropriate time to be listing the Lord’s wealth. When a street is full of thugs and dacoits, no woman would venture out wearing her jewels and finery. One wonders why the courts have got into this, when they should have been focusing on the Hasan Alis, Rajas and Kalmadis of the world.

It is puzzling why the acharya sabhas or Hindu organisations are silent on this issue. They may not have understood the full import of what is happening.

For the sake of Dharma and for God’s sake, our courts and powers should stop digging for treasures in our temples.

[Arjun]

While its good that the ranks of those who believe in the primacy of change institutional frameworks and polciies in tackling corruption is increasing (!), Lokpal as economic czar?!

The Lokpal should obviously not be responsible for any policy-making or economic matters. My suggestion was that in addition to investigating cases of corruption, the body should also be pushing the executive to adopt widely accepted processes and transparency / internal checks & balances frameworks that are known to minimize corruption.

For example, a typical corporate audit team not only investigates for indications of financial irregularities but also looks at the culture and set of processes followed by the audited entity, before deciding on the tenor of their report. I am just underlining that the model needs to be similar for the Lokpal.

Also even in investigating corruption cases, in considering circumstantial evidence when the evidence is not so clear-cut, they should give weightage to whether the individual had followed the recommended processes that relate to transparency, and internal checks and balances / signoffs being adequately followed. Once it is clear that the Lokpal is giving these measures weightage - all government departments would obviously want to set these same mechanisms up.

Btw, am quite surprised you have the impression I was opposed to institutional / systemic reforms. As a right-wing liberal - I am all for a lean government with minimal scope for corruption...

[Arjun]

Wall Street bankers, with colorful ties and multiple lies, should be tremendously interested. The wealth seen in temples becomes a target for jehadi terrorists and Wall Street bankers – who are no different except for the kind of killing they go for.

Agree with the rest of the article, but a Professor of Capital Markets at IIM speaking the language of Neshanth is quite an anomaly.

[vijayk]

No faith in govt, SC appoints special team to trail blackmoney
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/no-fa ... ey/812533/

Sonia must be wondering who has to be accidented now?

Hope this is not a dog and pony show. Hope they did deep enough to erase the black money mafia once and for all.

[vijayk]

Hands off the treasures that belong to Lord Vishnu - Firstpost - R Vaidyanathan

Deserved to be posted in full and as usual any article posted by R. Vaidyanathan garu are worth reading it in full.

The news has been splashed from Auckland to Alaska. The temples of India contain several billion dollars worth of treasures. The opening of the vaults in the Sri Padnamanabhaswamy temple in Thiruvananthapuram, Kerala, according to a court order comes at a dangerous time for our polity.

The mainstream media continues to sensationalise the size of the treasure. One of them gushes that “treasures tumble out of the temple” — as though this is illegal money stashed in the Cayman Islands. Let’s be clear: these treasures were donated by the temple’s devotees over centuries, and rightfully belong to Lord Vishnu, who cannot even be fully seen from any angle by devotees. He is the true owner of this wealth and this truth should be internalised.

It is unfortunate that this discovery should take place in Kerala, where the percentage of idol-worshippers is a minority – if one excluded Muslims, Christians and Marxists from the fold. The mere act of opening up the vaults and tunnels is thus fraught with significant dangers for Hindu society and our ancient civilisation.

The present times are most inappropriate to try to list the billions of rupees worth of diamonds and rubies and sapphires owned by our temples. We all know that a significant portion of our politicians have a criminal background and even parts of the judiciary are corrupt. The bureaucracy is compromised by a saga of loot and plunder.

In this context, where government finances are completely out of alignment with revenue realities, the temptation will be to use these invaluable treasures to fulfill the insatiable personal and political greed of our politicians to fund populist schemes like “food security” for all with resources belonging to Lord Vishnu. Already more than 80% of the incomes of major temples is used for “secular” causes rather than for “sacred” purposes.

The opening of the vaults in the Sri Padnamanabhaswamy temple in Thiruvananthapuram, Kerala, according to a court order comes at a dangerous time for our polity. Reuters

It is not improbable that some jholawala economist will calculate — by dividing his mobile number with the pin code — that more than 70% of the people below poverty line can be lifted out of poverty if only this money is available to the government. The unaccountable civil society group under Sonia Gandhi – also called the National Advisory Council — might formulate a bill (since they are the law framers in the present dispensation) to open up all vaults from the Amarnath to Ayappa temples and from Somnath to Kamakhya.

There will be half-baked debates about using it for “social justice”. The only people who can have some say on this wealth are those who visit the temple on a daily basis and who can chant, in this case, the Vishnu Sahasranamam. I am not even sure if those who are counting these treasures are eligible to deal with the “sacred” on the orders of the “secular”. One can say that this is the last battle waged by Nehruvian secularists against the ‘sacred” even though, in this particular case, it might appear to be a simple case of counting.

Actually counting, enumerating and documenting are secular ways of dealing with sacred treasures in our temples, since the sacred is never documented but just observed and meditated upon.

Some imported white or brown non-resident Indian expert will suggest a way of leveraging these billions and even propose investing a part of it in our stock markets to propel second generation reforms.

Wall Street bankers, with colorful ties and multiple lies, should be tremendously interested. The wealth seen in temples becomes a target for jehadi terrorists and Wall Street bankers – who are no different except for the kind of killing they go for. The memories of the plunder of Somnath are embedded in the brain cells of every citizen of this country.

Let us be clear. The town and the temple are already marked by global terrorists. The Kerala home minister says he will increase the number of pot-bellied constables to protect the treasures, as if the global jehadis can be handled by them.

Quite clearly, this is the most inappropriate time to be listing the Lord’s wealth. When a street is full of thugs and dacoits, no woman would venture out wearing her jewels and finery. One wonders why the courts have got into this, when they should have been focusing on the Hasan Alis, Rajas and Kalmadis of the world.

It is puzzling why the acharya sabhas or Hindu organisations are silent on this issue. They may not have understood the full import of what is happening.

For the sake of Dharma and for God’s sake, our courts and powers should stop digging for treasures in our temples.

This money is all gone. into the pockets of scums called UPA.

The story goes like this:

In Tirupati YSR and his chamcha Chairman simply removed and replaced all golden jewelry worth thousands of crores...
No one knows the truth and unfortunately even if BJP/TDP come back, we won't see the truth.

[Sanku]

. IMO 10 years ago we wouldn't have this debate, that with civil society on one side and the political class on the other.

We would not have had this 10 years ago because the 7 years of rampant loot had not happened and forced people to look for bitter medicine to bring the looters to book.

Quite simple.

[Sanku]

A good example of what happens when there is wide-scale inaction due to fear...

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/on-ye ... e/812279/0
.

Bad example. The real issue here is that the archetype of corruption in Indian politics, Shri Laloo Prasad Yadav -- foisted a completely unnecessary and totally obvious money making scheme down the throat of Indian railways.

The whole project was essentially to make money, since IR does not actually need that factory.

Thankfully Laloo-ji was gone from Bihar before he could really rake it in.

Mamta-di and others are now trying to make sure this dies a slow well deserved death.

Indian express has been extremely and openly blatantly biased towards Maino-Laloo-US (sell India and call it trade) lobby me thinks.

[brihaspati]

ShauryaT ji,
the fact remains, as you have observed in details, that those initial constitutional steps - proved irrereversible so far - even after economic liberalization, and reduction of the relative importance of the PSU's as primary providers of employment or largesse. We know that attamepts have been successfully made to impose quotas outside the PSU sector. Its a politically untouchable issue now. This shows the political entrenchment behind it. Same goes for protection of "minority" claims.

Once certain steps are taken, especially thos ethat create identities - are almost impossible to counter through the Constitution itself in a democratic process. The very process to alter the Constitution, may make it impossible to alter in desired or required ways - because the earlier steps creates identities and contituencies that can collaborate to prevent electoral way. Indian Constitution also has many other non-electoral checks. SC would be a good line of defense. Think of the likes of V.K.Iyer acting in the future too - not revealing their ideological colours while in chair, and masking their rulings in legal terms.

[Aditya_V]

A good example of what happens when there is wide-scale inaction due to fear...

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/on-ye ... e/812279/0
.

Bad example. The real issue here is that the archetype of corruption in Indian politics, Shri Laloo Prasad Yadav -- foisted a completely unnecessary and totally obvious money making scheme down the throat of Indian railways.

The whole project was essentially to make money, since IR does not actually need that factory.

Thankfully Laloo-ji was gone from Bihar before he could really rake it in.

Mamta-di and others are now trying to make sure this dies a slow well deserved death.

Indian express has been extremely and openly blatantly biased towards Maino-Laloo-US (sell India and call it trade) lobby me thinks.

The entire Media created this fake story on How Lalu had turned the railways with a magic wand overnight and it became a super dooper profitable enterprise without ever raising Railway fares. Once the white paper was brought out it was shown as nothing but a shame. But the same media, Harvard's who created the fake stories after stories belived by a Gullible Public, including close family members are all silent about the Miracle they were talking about. Huh

[somnath]

For example, a typical corporate audit team not only investigates for indications of financial irregularities but also looks at the culture and set of processes followed by the audited entity, before deciding on the tenor of their report. I am just underlining that the model needs to be similar for the Lokpal

Powers, authorities and actions of Constitutional posts cannot be comapred to standard corporate organsiational structures...Actions of the former have more long lasting impact and sanction than recos of a corporate audit unit, whose proposals can be overturned through a single email from an appropriately senior manager if required...

In any case, part of the whole financial audit-cum-recommendation mandate is already with another constitutional authority, the CAG...By all accounts, it is doing an effective job!

The big problem with the lokpal business is that various well meaning people have tended to confuse the Lokpal with a panacea for all ills (as Prashant Bhushan apparently said - we are here to change the Constittuion!)...

Lets be clear - the Lokpal is an "independent" policeman with some judicial powers - thats all..It is meant to ensure that corruption in high places are investigated fairly, and prosecuted effecetivly...As it is, we have a problem with the judiciary over-reaching into executive domain - prescribing policy actions on food policy, agri policy and everything else..The last thing we need is another Constitutional authority trying to prescribe "best pracctices" as it sees on policy matters...

BTW..

right-wing liberal

Contradiction in terms!?

[somnath]

Wall Street bankers, with colorful ties and multiple lies, should be tremendously interested. The wealth seen in temples becomes a target for jehadi terrorists and Wall Street bankers – who are no different except for the kind of killing they go for.

Agree with the rest of the article, but a Professor of Capital Markets at IIM speaking the language of Neshanth is quite an anomaly.

That article is balderdash....(the same prof sometime back grandly proclaimed that the Birlas and Bajajs have donated all their money to charity!)...First of all, how does anyone put a value to all that was there in the vaults? Second, has anyone in authority spoken of "expropriating" the money? Classic case of building a strawman and then demolishing it, simply to take potshots at ideological targets...

Once the white paper was brought out it was shown as nothing but a shame. But the same media, Harvard's who created the fake stories after stories belived by a Gullible Public, including close family members are all silent about the Miracle they were talking about.

I am no fan of Laloo, but what has that got to do with the loco factory plan? Who decided that these locos are "not needed"? Currently, all locos in India are manufactured by the likes of BHEL under license manufacturing tech from ABB, Siemens etc..In classical PSU style, they havent managed to graduate up and develop something materially better...

The loco order that the article referred to are 12k HP locos - IR plans to buy 800 of them....Instead of another useless license manufacturing deal, the idea is to get the winning bidder to setup a new plant in India...Somewhat like offsets in the defence sector...How does it help? If GE sets up a plant of its own, there will be more IP transferred to India, and Indian engineers working there would acquire domain knowledge that will set up an ecosystem hopefully...Unlike the situation now, where BHEL graduates from one screw driver to another..........

[Arjun]

right-wing liberal

Contradiction in terms!?

You might want to look up the history of liberalism.....It was always a right-wing concept, before the left-wing tried to hijack it by bringing in dichotomous concepts like tolerance etc into their version.

[Pranav]

A good example of what happens when there is wide-scale inaction due to fear...

Typically deals don't move unless people are paid off. They desperately want to line their pockets but, in the present atmosphere, are afraid of Tihar. Hence they prefer inaction.

[Pranav]

right-wing liberal

Contradiction in terms!?

Capitalism is when a private entity owns companies. Communism is when a private entity owns not only all companies but also the government.

[Pranav]

The loco order that the article referred to are 12k HP locos - IR plans to buy 800 of them....Instead of another useless license manufacturing deal, the idea is to get the winning bidder to setup a new plant in India...Somewhat like offsets in the defence sector...How does it help? If GE sets up a plant of its own, there will be more IP transferred to India, and Indian engineers working there would acquire domain knowledge that will set up an ecosystem hopefully...Unlike the situation now, where BHEL graduates from one screw driver to another..........

No IP is transferred to India if the plant is owned by GE.

[VinayB]

The Cabinet and PM are part of the checks and balances too. Problems will arise if they act with a 'catch me if you can' brazenness.

When that happens, it is a tough test for the other parts of the checks and balances. There is CAG, court, PAC etc. But PAC gets shouted down.

what is needed is action like cancelling licenses in 2G. Give Telenor a chance to review their due diligence practices.

what is also needed is political response - vote out the current corrupt. It will be tempting to overlook the scale of this issues, and say 'all are corrupt'. it is plain that it is illogical.

Lokpal could end up a NAC. And in the current model of political arrangement, one set getting caught and being replaced with another set, will have no real impact.

[Sanku]

The loco order that the article referred to are 12k HP locos - IR plans to buy 800 of them....Instead of another useless license manufacturing deal, the idea is to get the winning bidder to setup a new plant in India...Somewhat like offsets in the defence sector...How does it help? If GE sets up a plant of its own, there will be more IP transferred to India, and Indian engineers working there would acquire domain knowledge that will set up an ecosystem hopefully...Unlike the situation now, where BHEL graduates from one screw driver to another..........

No IP is transferred to India if the plant is owned by GE.

Clearly the pain here is that Indian money is going to PSU when some intrests would be much better served by going to UStan.

After all why by 30 planes when you can do a favor to Boeing by purchasing 70.

[sanjeevpunj]

Hands off the treasures that belong to Lord Vishnu - Firstpost - R Vaidyanathan
The present times are most inappropriate to try to list the billions of rupees worth of diamonds and rubies and sapphires owned by our temples. We all know that a significant portion of our politicians have a criminal background and even parts of the judiciary are corrupt. The bureaucracy is compromised by a saga of loot and plunder.
The opening of the vaults in the Sri Padnamanabhaswamy temple in Thiruvananthapuram, Kerala, according to a court order comes at a dangerous time for our polity. Reuters
Actually counting, enumerating and documenting are secular ways of dealing with sacred treasures in our temples, since the sacred is never documented but just observed and meditated upon

The Lord has declared his assets in a pre-emptive move, and now the politicians will have to declare their assets, sooner or later!

[Sushupti]

[RamaY]

^ this Dhimmi doesn't know the difference between Padmanabha temple treasury and Dye-nasty's robbery of india. Disgusting!

[Sushupti]

Time to open the basement of Taj MAHAL.