Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2011

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 10 Jul 2011 07:19

I am reading Jaswant Singh's memoir now. It is full of useless WKK-ism w.r.t. partition. Don't increase your BP by reading it.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 10 Jul 2011 07:31

Cmon....taking off uniform and giving up chair to expose inviting peachy bottom to homegrown Islamist freedom fighters must be very

for any Paki jernail.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 10 Jul 2011 07:42

Anujan wrote:Let us all join together and express our fullest support to this call:
Edhi urges Kayani to take over

Eminent social worker Abdul Sattar Edhi has demanded Chief of Army Staff Gen Ashfaq Pervez Kayani to take over the government and bring a Burma-like revolution by killing all political personalities in the country so the new generation could step into politics.

Edhi suggested Kayani take over only for three months because every general who comes into power does not fee like leaving.

Edhi calling for bloodshed is counter-intuitive. Indeed the other reports say it slightly different:
E.g.,

http://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-news ... -take-over

“Someone should bring Army revolution and clean up the situation because people revolution will bring bloodshed,” said Abdul Sattar Edhi.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 10 Jul 2011 07:50

surinder wrote: Suppiah Babu, Martyr is defined as a person who willingly goes and sacrifices his life for a cause. The people who were killed in the 1947 riots were not Martyrs, they were vicitims of barbarism which mother India failed to protect. Most of them, did not have a choice to die nor were eager to die or migrate. (Yes, some did take the challenge and went out and died like martyr's ... they rose to the occasion, and realized the impotence of India.)

Their death, rape & migration is a shameful aspect of Mother India failing to protect its own citizens, it is not the willilng call for sacrifice from those who were massacred.

India & Indians, in its effort to hide its shame, calls them martyrs.

Fair enough. However, we must note that:

1. Partition "happened very quickly". I think Radcliffe completed his work in 2-3 months. People were informed about it much later. Basically the administration had no time to prepare for it. Note that the Army and police were deployed in Delhi to stop the riots. 'Shoot at sight' orders were given. (I don't think anyone expected non-Muslims to be safe in Pakistan.) India was still a poor country and the British were playing an important role in the administration. So we can say that the GoI honestly tried to stop the riots. It is clear that these steps were not sufficient.

2. Virtually all parts of the country were flying apart. Remember the nautanki of princely states. The rulers of the country were inexperienced (and too idealistic). Note the difference in preparation when the recent Ayodhya verdict was announced. Most sensitive places in U.P. were full of policemen/army/CRPF. The Air force had deployed transport planes for quickly airlifting troops.

I understand your pain. No one wants to lose territory/people.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 10 Jul 2011 08:04

arun wrote:The death toll in Karachi over the past 5 days has crossed the century mark and that was this mornings news:

If they hit a century in just Kar-ache, what about the rest of the RAPE country.. the score seems to be be more than what the Paki Cricket team scores in a test match... Hope they continue many more weeks like this and have a huge fratricide...

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Jul 2011 08:14

abhishek_sharma wrote:
surinder wrote: Suppiah Babu, Martyr is defined as a person who willingly goes and sacrifices his life for a cause. The people who were killed in the 1947 riots were not Martyrs, they were vicitims of barbarism which mother India failed to protect. Most of them, did not have a choice to die nor were eager to die or migrate. (Yes, some did take the challenge and went out and died like martyr's ... they rose to the occasion, and realized the impotence of India.)

Their death, rape & migration is a shameful aspect of Mother India failing to protect its own citizens, it is not the willilng call for sacrifice from those who were massacred.

India & Indians, in its effort to hide its shame, calls them martyrs.
Fair enough. However, we must note that:

1. Partition "happened very quickly". I think Radcliffe completed his work in 2-3 months. People were informed about it much later. Basically the administration had no time to prepare for it. Note that the Army and police were deployed in Delhi to stop the riots. 'Shoot at sight' orders were given. (I don't think anyone expected non-Muslims to be safe in Pakistan.) India was still a poor country and the British were playing an important role in the administration. So we can say that the GoI honestly tried to stop the riots. It is clear that these steps were not sufficient.

2. Virtually all parts of the country were flying apart. Remember the nautanki of princely states. The rulers of the country were inexperienced (and too idealistic). Note the difference in preparation when the recent Ayodhya verdict was announced. Most sensitive places in U.P. were full of policemen/army/CRPF. The Air force had deployed transport planes for quickly airlifting troops.

I understand your pain. No one wants to lose territory/people.

Those were tumultuous days.

From an article I wrote
http://www.adl.gatech.edu/research/brms ... 010803.pdf

The British plan for the independence of India came to be known as the "Cripps Cabinet Mission Plan"(of
1946) and involved one of two alternative plans - called the "May 16th plan" and the "June 16th plan". The
May 16th plan envisaged the division of a united India into Muslim majority and Hindu majority provinces.
The June 16th plan envisaged the division of India into a Muslim majority nation state called Pakistan
leaving a Hindu majority India. The Congress party rejected the partition plan (of June 16th) outright and
was unwilling to accept the May 16 plan except for its idea of forming a constitution for India. The Muslim
League, furious at the Congress Party's outright rejection of the June 16th plan for the formation of an
independent Pakistan attempted to demonstrate Muslim militant power by initiating what was called the
"Direct Action Day" (August 16th 1946) in which thousands of Hindus and Sikhs were massacred in
Calcutta (Kolkata). The violence later spread to other parts of India.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 10 Jul 2011 08:18

Dipanker wrote: From Pakistani perspective India is stronger because India has kicked their butt in every single war including the lobotomy of 1971.

Yes, but in revenge, they have successfully used terror as an instrument of state policy, and are basically telling India that there is nothing India can do about it, and they are demanding Kashmir to avenge dismemberment of Bangladesh. And who knows what after that.

Given that kind of experience Paki know that conventional war against is not an option, and particularly the post 911 shellacking they have been getting from all sides, with 5,000 troops, and 35,000 civilians dead, the only option they have left now is begging.

You have been long enough on BR to have learnt that those #s don't mean didly squat to the PakiJabi RAPE that rule TSP. What %ge of those killed since 9/11 are PakiJabis? Most killed were expendible yahoos in the tribal areas. Even during Kargil, the Paki troops that were sacrifcied were not pakijabis, but non pakijabi-dominated NLF. Hence even Kargil is considered "victory" in TSP mythology.

Unless pakijabi RAPE are hit badly, TSP will continue to persist on their current strategy. We need more Karachi type 4's and 6's in Lahore, Pindi, I'bad, Multan etc.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Jul 2011 08:26

CRamS wrote: My non elitist, non deluded, realistic response to this slime ball is straightforward. India is not as strong as it looks, and neither is TSP as weak or insecure as it looks visa vi India.
<snip>
Through terror and nuke blackmail, TSP has committed mass crimes against India and has not only gotten away with it, but reaps rewards in that it has reduced India to begging for real peace in a "no war no peace" situation as he himself puts it.
<snip>
Despite having no military presence per se in the Kashmir valley, through sheer terror and gestapo tricks, TSP can ensure that no Indian political initiative there can succeed unless its demands are met. How then can Irfan cliam that India is so powerful?
<snip>
Finally as, 26/11 showed, a gang of 10 TSP terrorist "boys" humiliated and held India to ransom for 3 days through their wanton inhuman brutality even as Irfan & co were cheering in glee

This reminds me of that other lasting British legacy that was left in India - nursery rhymes.

Jack Spratt could eat no fat
His wife could eat no lean
so 'twixt them both you see
they licked their platter clean

Shri Spratt would eat the protein/muscle of their meat and shrimati would eat the fatty bits. Together they ate everything and left nothing.

Pakistanis cannot see defeat in anything. Indians see defeat in everything. Together India-Pakistan have an equal share of victories and defeats. By joining with Pakistan we can claim our share of victories - we have none after all. And that will give Pakistan a share of our defeats. If you consider Pakistani victories as good and Indian defeats as bad, then we have everything to gain by joining and sharing. It is the Pakis who lose.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 10 Jul 2011 08:26

From the past: Pakistan's admission to the United Nations:

http://observingliberalpakistan.blogspo ... tions.html

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 10 Jul 2011 08:30

CRamS wrote:"India is a big country with a small heart."

This guy has raised couple of interesting points... Apart from usual drivel... but before that... this "small heart" business seems to be a standard refrain about India... I thought Pigs have the smallest heart (as a percentage of their body mass)... The Idiot Afridi said it after the loss in the Semis... many mard-e-momins talk about this heart in the Paki talk shows and shouting matches... now let us see some of the points he raised..

And Musharraf, for all his flaws...genuinely tried to solve the festering Kashmir dispute.. putting the UN resolutions aside.

Mushrat, the architect of Kargil offering to putting aside UN resolution may be news to the Pak-rats. but 1972 Shimla agreement itself had done this...since then Pakees only has used this in their public rhetoric. in the absence of any improvement in ground sitn, India will care less to move on any direction with Pak.

Here is a much smaller neighbour that owes India its very existence as an independent state, and yet anti-India sentiments in Bangladesh are rampant.

Thanks to Pak ISI

In the closing stages of the civil war two years ago, tens of thousands of Tamils were massacred, and India could do nothing to persuade Colombo to desist.

What should India have done, Invade SL?

India remained a bystander while Pakistan and China armed and trained government forces. So although India is helping Sri Lanka with various infrastructure projects, it has very little influence in Colombo.

How does he know, India stood aside... IN and ICG was majorly responsible for cutting off all suplies to LTTE by gun-runners. the very reason India setup a NAS near Rameshwaram is for aerial surveilance of norther areas of SL

... separatist movements in Mizoram and Kashmir, highlight the establishment’s lack of imagination and self-confidence. These problems have been around for decades, and continue to get worse rather than better.

another rant.. Mizoram is a problem of the distant past. Kashmir is far peaceful inspite of the Pakis... maybe it is becoming WORSE for Pakis in Kashmir, not for India.

Here is the clincher...

SAARC, must be reactivated to become the platform for expanding regional trade and travel it was designed to be.

RAPE constantly wants trade to make more money to fund more Jihadis.. this travel thing means, RAPEs want to jump ship ASAP.. beware.. tighten our borders...

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 10 Jul 2011 08:33

habal wrote: On first day 83 casualties were pushtuns and total casualties was around 86 or 88.

Can you post alink? IIRC on the first day of violence around 20 people were killed. 13 people were gunned down in Banaras area ( obviously a mujahir area).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4s5q1SqMZc&NR=1

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 10 Jul 2011 08:52

shiv wrote:Pakistanis cannot see defeat in anything. Indians see defeat in everything. Together India-Pakistan have an equal share of victories and defeats. By joining with Pakistan we can claim our share of victories - we have none after all. And that will give Pakistan a share of our defeats. If you consider Pakistani victories as good and Indian defeats as bad, then we have everything to gain by joining and sharing. It is the Pakis who lose.

No spinning please when arguing with CRamS, but tell me was 26/11 a victory of sort for TSP or not? India is discussing Kashmir now, a key demand of TSP immediatly after 26/11, but 26/11 perpetrators including Kiyani, Paasha, Hafeez Saeed, Major Iqbal, etc are sipping scotch, laughing their asses off to the bank to collect US $s, and MMS's bhaichara, and watching Katrina Kaif's belly dances to Bollywood tunes from their safe houses in Pindi, not to mention Kesab being fed goat biryani in Mumbai.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 10 Jul 2011 08:54

Anujan wrote:Pak for non-deployment of ballistic missile system
Pakistan is pushing for the signing a pact for the "non-deployment of ballistic missile system"

More than JDAM, there are two other LARGER pressure points.
1) India has been repeatedly proving its Nuclear Capable missiles and expanding its arsenal, also building a BMD. Who else than Pak Jernails would know more about these Paki Nodongs, hence this peace ruse to protect their missile nanga state
2) Ameer Khan's pressure is tremendous, they want to use this as a Peace flag to get more concessions from Desh and other donors and at the same time trumpet this as a major strategic achievement against Yevil Yindoos who sued for peace fearing our GRATEST ICBMs...

Desh should beware of these CMBs on 2 counts.
1) Even if India signs this and follows it to the letter and spirit, Pakees woul just continue on their path.
2) Pressure will mount on Desh to scale back on its CM/CM/Neclear Subs/BMD plans by P5 and WKKs.

ARoy and WKKs will have a collective 0rga$m after reading this

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 10 Jul 2011 08:58

SSridhar wrote:
habal wrote:Karachi violence is very suspiscious ..only Pashtuns have been killed.
Habal, the Pashtuns certainly do have casualties but they are not getting massacred. Dipanker is right.

It is starting slow... a trickle is going to grow into a roaring raging flood soon. BTB, the catalyst for this could very well be the monsoons. The ongoing Pak-Army drama in the Af-Pak frontier will also hasten this process.
Next trickle of refugees coming into Karachi would trigger the deluge. I would love this fratricide to spread to other cities in Pak too...

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 10 Jul 2011 09:02

CRamS wrote:
Yes, but in revenge, they have successfully used terror as an instrument of state policy, and are basically telling India that there is nothing India can do about it, and they are demanding Kashmir to avenge dismemberment of Bangladesh. And who knows what after that.

This strategy has badly boomeranged on them, 35,000 dead civilians, 5,000 dead soldiers, 100+ dead in Karachi in last 4 days, and still no end in site.

What is the phrase here, cutting one's nose .... or something like that.

You have been long enough on BR to have learnt that those #s don't mean didly squat to the PakiJabi RAPE that rule TSP. What %ge of those killed since 9/11 are PakiJabis? Most killed were expendible yahoos in the tribal areas. Even during Kargil, the Paki troops that were sacrifcied were not pakijabis, but non pakijabi-dominated NLF. Hence even Kargil is considered "victory" in TSP mythology.

Unless pakijabi RAPE are hit badly, TSP will continue to persist on their current strategy. We need more Karachi type 4's and 6's in Lahore, Pindi, I'bad, Multan etc.

Pakjabis have been hit, obviously not to the extent we would like, but Karma will eventually catch up with them, it is just a a matter of time. It always happens.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Jul 2011 09:04

One of the biggest problems that India faces with Pakistan is that they behave with us like we behave with each other and them. That is their strongest point.

Of course I can be immediately arrested in my tracks by being told "Oh thanks for doing an equal equal. So you mean that India does things like 26/11 and Kaluchak?. With Indians like you we don't need Pakis"

Of course this argument will not put anyone off. It will only encourage him to say "Remember Gujarat? Did you count how many women were raped in Delhi last week? The Bhagalpur blindings? Christian priests burned? Kandhamal?"

This usually leaves Indians spluttering and foaming at the mouth with no response.

As I see it there is a huge problem in the way Indians like to say "We Indians are good. It's Pakis who are bad". The hollowness of this attitude can be seen by the way Pakis respond by saying "Oh rubbish. It's us Pakis who are good. You Indians are bad"

<splutter..foam..gnash ..%$#@##$$>

The right way forward is to take the attitude "We Indians are hardly good. We are dirty rapine rotters but we will take special pleasure in screwing you Pakis even if you are better than us. Your being better or worse is not the point. We are rotters so will will screw you. You should enjoy that. It proves your point that we are rotters doesn't it"

Unfortunately most Indians collapse into a mass of quivering cognitive dissonance when they have to admit that they are bad. Pakistan being bad is hinged on Indians being good. Admitting that India is bad is such a shocking idea that we only get angry.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 10 Jul 2011 09:04

Anujan wrote:Let us all join together and express our fullest support to this call:
Edhi suggested Kayani take over only for three months because every general who comes into power does not fee like leaving.

Pakees have a great habit of jumping from the frying pan onto the fire... If this happens, it could cut bothways for India.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 10 Jul 2011 09:05

CRamS wrote:
shiv wrote:Pakistanis cannot see defeat in anything. Indians see defeat in everything. Together India-Pakistan have an equal share of victories and defeats. By joining with Pakistan we can claim our share of victories - we have none after all. And that will give Pakistan a share of our defeats. If you consider Pakistani victories as good and Indian defeats as bad, then we have everything to gain by joining and sharing. It is the Pakis who lose.
No spinning please when arguing with CRamS, but tell me was 26/11 a victory of sort for TSP or not? India is discussing Kashmir now, a key demand of TSP immediatly after 26/11, but 26/11 perpetrators including Kiyani, Paasha, Hafeez Saeed, Major Iqbal, etc are sipping scotch, laughing their asses off to the bank to collect US $s, and MMS's bhaichara, and watching Katrina Kaif's belly dances to Bollywood tunes from their safe houses in Pindi, not to mention Kesab being fed goat biryani in Mumbai.

CRamsS,

India has been discussing "Cashmere" for last 63 years, you know that!

About 26/11, I think you would agree in retrospect not launching a cold start turned out to be a better option in the end.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Jul 2011 09:08

CRamS wrote: No spinning please when arguing with CRamS,

Saar I would never argue with you. That would be my mistake. I state my view you state yours. You don't have to accept what i say and I will accept or refute whatever I choose from your statements. Like a paki I will have my way and don't care whether you are right or wrong. Right or wrong does not matter to me. Only what i think matters. Like Pakis. Arguing with people holding a Paki viewpoint such as mine is a waste of time.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 10 Jul 2011 09:11

CRamS wrote:Unless pakijabi RAPE are hit badly, TSP will continue to persist on their current strategy. We need more Karachi type 4's and 6's in Lahore, Pindi, I'bad, Multan etc.

Agree with Ram on this point 100000%. The flood of the past year were considered a major a major disaster for Pakees because it affected Punjab. Score of Pak-jabis died and above all thousands of SqKM of agricultural land was lost. Pakees care two hoots for the recurring droughts in Sindh (even when the Sindhi PPP rules) or mass-killings by TSPA in FATA or NWFR pr Baloch... hence my suggestions to encourage this spread of Karachi violence to Multan, Sialkot, Lahore and Pindi. THIS MIGHT TRIGGER A EXODUS INTO DESH as Pak-Jabis are really smart to quickly abandon a sinking ship - they are afterall the experts of downhill skiing.

arun · Post by **arun** » 10 Jul 2011 09:17

Back to back blows struck for freedom by the Baloch / Baluch people from the exploitative grasp of the Punjabi’s of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

On Friday an 8 inch diameter gas pipeline taken out:

Gas pipeline blow up in Loti

On Saturday a 16 inch diameter gas pipeline taken out:

Gas pipeline blown up in Pir Koh

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 10 Jul 2011 09:19

shiv wrote:One of the biggest problems that India faces with Pakistan is that they behave with us like we behave with each other and them. That is their strongest point.
The right way forward is to take the attitude "We Indians are hardly good. We are dirty rapine rotters but we will take special pleasure in screwing you Pakis even if you are better than us. Your being better or worse is not the point. We are rotters so will will screw you. You should enjoy that. It proves your point that we are rotters doesn't it"
Pakistan being bad is hinged on Indians being good. Admitting that India is bad is such a shocking idea that we only get angry.

You got it spot on Shiv... the high nosed Morlity preached by Nehru and faithfully followed by CON-gress has landed us in a soup multiple times.. MMS is just continuing in this glorious tradition... Shimla agreement was a sellout of the highest order... whatever MMS has proposed or discussed or dreamt about (NOT ACTUALLY EXECUTED) in the ghup-chup is nothing compared to the largess bestowed on ZAB by IG.
Once Desh starts talking dirty (not even brave) words, then Pakees would be worried... think about few murmurs on COLD START (which were denied/retracted) causing shalwar browning in pindi...

BSR Murthy · Post by **BSR Murthy** » 10 Jul 2011 09:20

U.S. Is Deferring Millions in Pakistani Military Aid

The Obama administration is suspending and, in some cases, canceling hundreds of millions of dollars of aid to the Pakistani military, in a move to chasten Pakistan for expelling American military trainers and to press its army to fight militants more effectively.

Coupled with a statement from the top American military officer last week linking Pakistan’s military spy agency to the recent murder of a Pakistani journalist, the halting or withdrawal of military equipment and other aid to Pakistan illustrates the depth of the debate inside the Obama administration over how to change the behavior of one of its key counterterrorism partners.

Altogether, about $800 million in military aid and equipment, or over one-third of the more than $2 billion in annual American security assistance to Pakistan, could be affected, three senior United States officials said.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 10 Jul 2011 09:23

arun wrote:Back to back blows struck for freedom by the Baloch / Baluch people from the exploitative grasp of the Punjabi’s of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.
On Friday an 8 inch diameter gas pipeline taken out:
On Saturday a 16 inch diameter gas pipeline taken out:

Wont an explosion in a Gas pipe cause a fire and damage the pipeline for a good distance on either side? is the system so good that there is an automatic cut-off of supply which causes minimal damage such that Pakees can repair it to resume pumping gas thru the same pipe ASAP? wow, their DIJN tech seems to be uber cool

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 10 Jul 2011 09:44

PROSPECTS FOR INDIAN AND PAKISTANI ARMS CONTROL AND CONFIDENCE-BUILDING MEASURES.
Brigadier Feroz Hassan Khan, Pakistan Army
Naval War College Review, 2010

x-post

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 Jul 2011 10:00

http://pn.com.pk/details_en.php?nid=19946
ShareThisZawahiri in Pak tribal area: Panetta

Washington D.C. - The "strategic defeat" of Al-Qaeda is "within reach", US Defence Secretary Leon Panetta said Saturday as he arrived on a surprise visit to Afghanistan as the US prepares a gradual drawdown of troops.Ahead of his arrival, Panetta told travelling media that since the May night raid by US forces in Pakistan that killed Osama Bin Laden, "10 to 20" key Al-Qaeda targets had been identified between Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and north Africa.He said:US Defence Secretary Leon Panetta has alleged Qaeda's new chief al-Zawahiri is in Pak tribal area.
<br> "We have to continue to emphasise with the Pakistanis that in the end it s in their interest to be able to go after these targets as well. They ve given us some cooperation, they re going after some of these targets, we ve got to continue to push them to do that.""If we can go after them, I think we really can strategically defeat Al-Qaeda," said Panetta, who leads the Pentagon after two years as CIA chief.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 10 Jul 2011 10:01

shiv wrote:One of the biggest problems that India faces with Pakistan is that they behave with us like we behave with each other and them. That is their strongest point.

Of course I can be immediately arrested in my tracks by being told "Oh thanks for doing an equal equal. So you mean that India does things like 26/11 and Kaluchak?. With Indians like you we don't need Pakis"

Of course this argument will not put anyone off. It will only encourage him to say "Remember Gujarat? Did you count how many women were raped in Delhi last week? The Bhagalpur blindings? Christian priests burned? Kandhamal?"

This usually leaves Indians spluttering and foaming at the mouth with no response.

As I see it there is a huge problem in the way Indians like to say "We Indians are good. It's Pakis who are bad". The hollowness of this attitude can be seen by the way Pakis respond by saying "Oh rubbish. It's us Pakis who are good. You Indians are bad"

<splutter..foam..gnash ..%$#@##$$>

The right way forward is to take the attitude "We Indians are hardly good. We are dirty rapine rotters but we will take special pleasure in screwing you Pakis even if you are better than us. Your being better or worse is not the point. We are rotters so will will screw you. You should enjoy that. It proves your point that we are rotters doesn't it"

Unfortunately most Indians collapse into a mass of quivering cognitive dissonance when they have to admit that they are bad. Pakistan being bad is hinged on Indians being good. Admitting that India is bad is such a shocking idea that we only get angry.

shiv saar,

One who tries debating with a Pakistani, is really on a suicide mission for his internal harmony. Whenever Pakistanis debate, they will always use the "torn shirt, open fly" argumentation. And since we Indians tend to be so self-introspective, so self-critical, any references to Indian events like Godhra, Babri Masjid, Bombay riots, Kandhamal, etc. would automatically trigger a sense of remorse and repenting in Indians, either that, or we would try to explain what really happened. If one allows oneself to fall for this trap, one still has a long way to go!

One should not try to prove one is better as far as principles are concerned, because they will always be able to find our open fly. And never should we try to prove we are saints.

What we can do to hit at them is numbers, and only those numbers where we are sure, are in our favor. But even there they would find alternate numbers to throw back at us.

So we look for numbers and facts, which negate the very foundation of their national existence.
- Pakistan was a country established for the dignity and security of the Muslims in the Indian Subcontinent.
- Pakistan will prosper as a country.
- Pakistanis are a martial race.

On these issues, Indians can devastate them.
- More Muslims die in Pakistan violent deaths than in India.
- Today, the world treats Pakistanis with disdain, contempt and suspicion. Just say you're a Pakistani at some airport.
- They are terrorists. For F***in' sake, Mrs Kiyani was making pakoras for OBL.
- Their country is being used as a condom by United States.
- Pakistan is going down, and India is going up.
- Pakistan has lost every war it has fought with India. Ask them if they remember the surrender of 93,000 soldiers in 1971.

We are better than them because we have bested them in both war and economy. We are better than them, because we are better treated than them.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 Jul 2011 10:03

http://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-news ... n-Pakistan
US wants to weaken Pakistan

RAWALPINDI (Reuters) - Reports in the New York Times criticising the Pakistan Army and the powerful intelligence agency is a ‘direct attack’ on Pakistan’s security, the army spokesman said on Saturday.
Major General Athar Abbas, the Pakistan Army’s chief spokesman, repeatedly criticised the Times’ reporting and said it was part of a calculated plan by ‘unnamed officials’ to ‘weaken the state’. “This is a direct attack on our security organisation and intelligence agencies,” he told Reuters in a rare on-the-record in-person interview. “We consider ISI as a strategic intelligence organization, the first line of our defence.”Athar Abbas repeatedly criticised the Times’ reporting and said it was part of a calculated plan by the United States to ‘weaken the state’. Abbas was responding specifically to a July 8 editorial that said there was evidence of complicity by the ISI intelligence agency in sheltering bin Laden, of ties to the 2008 Mumbai attacks and of involvement in the abduction and murder of Asia Times Online journalist Saleem Shahzad.
“This whole reporting through media, quoting unnamed officials, anonymous sources, is part of a design to undermine the authority and the power of the organisation in order to weaken the state,” Abbas said.He declined to specify exactly who the unnamed officials were, although the New York Times specified they were American officials.Abbas said there had been unease because of the bin Laden raid. “We have taken certain measures, which we consider, are in the best national interest.”“We have also ordered a number of US military personnel to be reduced, to go back, because we consider these as non-essential personnel in certain areas, and they’ve been asked to leave,” he said.The ISI and CIA, he said, which have worked together for decades, should ‘formalise’ their relationship. He said Pasha had “asked them that the relationship between the two intelligence agencies should be formalised. It should be documented. It should not be open-ended. It should not be left to the other side to interpret the way they want to.”

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 Jul 2011 10:08

Dismembering the Muslim World
( Poak Poaking at the Prospects of Super Shia State)
http://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-news ... slim-World

The secession of South Sudan under America's tutelage has encouraged Christians in Nigeria and an Egyptian independent Coptic state based on the model of the Vatican. The aspirations of the current Coptic leaders are lucidly captured by a Jewish Journalist Oded Yinon in 1982. In his paper, entitled A strategy for Israel in the nineteen-eighties, he states: "Egypt is divided and torn apart into many foci of authority. If Egypt falls apart, countries like Libya, Sudan or even the more distant states will not continue to exist in their present form and will join the downfall and dissolution of Egypt. The vision of a Christian Coptic state in Upper Egypt, alongside a number of weak states, with very localised power and without a centralised government as to date, is the key to a historical development which was only setback by the peace agreement, but which seems inevitable in the long run."The idea of creating a sacred Coptic state within the contours of Egypt is similar to the one advocated by US Lieutenant-Colonel Ralph Peters concerning Makkah and Medina. In June 2006, Peters published a map of the "New Middle East" in the June edition of the US Armed Forces Journal. The journal depicted amongst other mutilated Muslim countries the 'Islamic Sacred State', which consists of Makkah and Medina segregated from the rest of Saudi Arabia.

Earlier, various US officials have played upon sectarian and ethnic differences, and called for the creation of a super Shia state that stretches from Lebanon to Pakistan. The idea behind such a creation is to shift the control of oil away from Sunni domination into Shia hands, whom the Americans regard much more trustworthy to manage their colonial interests. Indeed, the American occupation in Iraq is viewed by some Middle Eastern leaders, as the first step towards Shia domination of the whole region. In an article, entitled Iraq, Jordan See Threat To Election From Iran, published by the Washington Post on November 8, 2004, King Abdullah warned: "If pro-Iran parties or politicians dominate the new Iraqi government a new "crescent" of dominant Shiite movements or governments stretching from Iran into Iraq, Syria and Lebanon could emerge, alter the traditional balance of power between the two main Islamic sects and pose new challenges to US interests and allies." He further went to state that Iran was the main beneficiary from the chaos in Iraq. Ever since the Shia's rose to power in Iraq, King Abdullah has oft repeated that America's occupation of Iraq is bolstering Shia power across the region.

krishna_j · Post by **krishna_j** » 10 Jul 2011 10:12

Climate Wars: The Fight for Survival as the World Overheats

pub by Viva books Rs 695/- Pp 320 Gwynne Dyer April 2011

*
* Scenario 4:Northern India, 2036
* Chapter 4:We Can Fix This....
*

http://www.flipkart.com/books/185168742 ... d0x3fabgab

This is a futuristic book looking at global warming that will not be a benign phenomenon .

Conflict over water, food, land, fuel due to the impact of our changing climate. Dyer has asked influential people all over the world what they think will happen as the world warms up, and there are 8 scary scenarios as the result.

A nuclear war between India and Pakistan, triggered by conflict over water resources and the starvation resulting from the collapse of the Indus river system. A militarized 'fortress America' keeping back hordes of starving Mexicans with a fence topped with automatically controlled machine guns. War in the newly melted Arctic ocean over the scraps of remaining hydrocarbons are some of the scenarios covered etc

Of particular interest is the chapter on the conflict over water resources - with India potentially tapping the flow of water from Kashmir into Pak - resulting in nuclear strikes all over India and though there is a counter strike , the author contends that India is so preoccupied and crippled that the Pak military is able to roll across and take over Kashmir and control all the water resources going into India .

Too simplistic in execution but frightening in conceptualization - worth a read esp as there is an Indian edition released by Viva.

It should be compulsory reading for all young people and us oldies, so that they know what kind of world we are creating for future generations

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 10 Jul 2011 10:15

"Remember Gujarat? Did you count how many women were raped in Delhi last week? The Bhagalpur blindings? Christian priests burned? Kandhamal?"

This usually leaves Indians spluttering and foaming at the mouth with no response.

I've come across this many times. But i always remind them that the exceptions to the rule are not the rule. In Pakistan what we call exceptions to the rule are the rule. The very moment someone talks on generalizing an exception: He's fundamentally lost the argument once you remind him or her that you are generalizing what are exceptions. Americans when the talk of Hinduism, again take the 'exception to be the rule' format and leave many of us spluttering.

But the problem here is that we do know that it's a justification for the Rule in one place being pushed as equal to the exceptions to the rule in another. but are unable to call that the rule in one place !=exception to the rule in one place. Even though the violence level may have been as abhorent.

Towards that end i have statistics from British themselves over a period of a few decades on Sati, that show that the number of women burnt on the Stake would be more than those that committed Sati in India during the same period. That shuts most people up in the West. Towards that end i will agree a bit with Shiv Ji's final take, but put it this way..yea we do all of that and worse, but these are exceptions to the rule. Such people are pursued vigorously by law.

So Muslims get persecuted in India? Yes they do at times, but that's as an exemption to the rule. Hindu's and Christian persecution in Pakistan? It happens all the time as per the rule, the law itself. Big difference. So no ==Muslim persecution in India to Hindu/ Christian persecution in Pakistan

Indian soldiers rape and kill? Of course they can do and have been instances probably. But these are again exceptions to the rule and mechanisms provide for their punishment. Paki soldiers doing so? After the rape and genocide in Bangladesh lesser said the better. Cannot equate the exception to the rule.

Ultimately yes we do have all the vices, but treating the exception as equal to the rule is the the biggest weapon that Satan possesses for intellectually disarming someone. And anyone falling for the trick is ultimate naivete.

arun · Post by **arun** » 10 Jul 2011 10:20

X Posted from the ISI History and Discussions thread.

In Canada protests against the fomenting of Islamic Terrorism in Afghanistan by the Intelligence Agency of the Armed Forces of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, the ISI / ISID:

Protesters oppose Pakistan spy agency's 'meddling' in Afghanistan

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 10 Jul 2011 10:24

Shrinivasan wrote:think about few murmurs on COLD START (which were denied/retracted) causing shalwar browning in pindi...

Pakistanis often wear brown salwars, simply to hide their regular brownings.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 10 Jul 2011 10:28

“This whole reporting through media, quoting unnamed officials, anonymous sources, is part of a design to undermine the authority and the power of the organisation in order to weaken the state,” Abbas said.He declined to specify exactly who the unnamed officials were, although the New York Times specified they were American officials

Again from the Paki article by their Spokesman. He is trying to make (here Americans) them feel guilty that this is bad reporting. A single thought that the PA/ ISI controls so much of the media including giving threats and murdering journo's slips this inveterate liars mind so completely. He's hitting out at the American exception in reporting on Pakistani reality, while completely ignoring how manipulative as a rule is the reporting in the Paki media against Jews, Hindu's, CIA, RAW, MOSSAD etc. Obviously there will be left liberal journo's who'll turn all pink and say yes we Americans also are guilty..but i guess you get the point.

arun · Post by **arun** » 10 Jul 2011 10:30

X Posted.

US Defence Secretary Leon Panetta discloses that Islamic terrorist Ayaman Zawahiri is taking refuge where else but in the Islamic Terrorist fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Zawahiri hiding in Fata: Panetta

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 10 Jul 2011 10:32

US to hold back $800mn in aid to Pakistan: report

Ramachandran Subramanian · Post by **Ramachandran Subramanian** » 10 Jul 2011 10:41

Dipanker wrote:
habal wrote: On first day 83 casualties were pushtuns and total casualties was around 86 or 88.
Can you post alink? IIRC on the first day of violence around 20 people were killed. 13 people were gunned down in Banaras area ( obviously a mujahir area).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4s5q1SqMZc&NR=1

Did some one notice some weirdness with the news reader's eyebrows? It looks like his eyebrows are drawn with a pencil (like cho ramaswami's. Ofcourse cho has a medical condition)

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 10 Jul 2011 11:16

RajeshA wrote: So we look for numbers and facts, which negate the very foundation of their national existence.

How about next time a piglet goes on about
1 Porki mard-e-momin=10 Hindu soldiers,

we remind them that as per present arithmetic
1 TTP suicide bomber = 30-40 Porki soldiers

Not to mention countless other piglets in collateral benefits.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 10 Jul 2011 11:24

http://www.dnaindia.com/sport/interview ... ef_1564163

BCCI has anti-Pakistan agenda: Former ICC chief

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 10 Jul 2011 11:26

^ Unless i missed it out, could'nt see who the interviewer is talking to.