Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2011

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by khan »

SSridhar wrote:
Narad wrote:there is high chance that AAZ could be halal-ed in secrecy by pork-fauj
Narad, TSP is very naked nowadays. 'Secrecy' is non-existent.
My thoughts exactly, the CIA must have cultivated several moles in the ISI while they where were running loose around the country.

I think the US is pushing very hard to leverage these assets before they are either caught or rotated out of their posts (happens every three years). This gives the US approximately 1.5 years (assuming that their assets are half way thru their tenure on average) before the intelligence starts dieing out.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by SSridhar »

On the troop withdrawal drama
Meanwhile, the Corps Commanders resolved to fight the “menace of terrorism in our own national interest using our own resources”.
It means that there will be no action immediately in North Waziristan.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by shiv »

Pakistani troops would be withdrawn from the border with Afghanistan if Washington held back $800 million in military aid.
:rotfl: This is called cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. If Pakis don't protect their Durand line - Pashtunistan gets easier to establish.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by A_Gupta »

Off-topic, for Shiv (on urbanization)
http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNA ... 47,00.html
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by shiv »

A_Gupta wrote:Off-topic, for Shiv (on urbanization)
http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNA ... 47,00.html
There is a statement here that one needs to read with care
Urbanization is not a side effect of economic growth; it is an integral part of the process.
The "take away" from this statement could be that if there is urbanization then it means there is economic growth and the greater the urbanization the greater the economic growth.

I believe that such a conclusion, while easy to reach is nonsense. It so happens that India is showing economic growth and the urbanization in India can be explained away as a part of that. But the economic growth of Pakistan is slow, if not negative. But its urbanization is fast. Fater than India according to those reports

Clearly this calls the original assumption "Urbanization==growth" into question.

Urbanization is mostly migration into cities. That migration is certainly due to an economic gradient between urban and rural. The gradient is as important as absolute growth. You can have urbanization in Somalia and Ethiopia because the only economic activity is in the cities/pots. Economic activity in rural areas has all but stopped due to drought/disease/civil war.

But people who write articles don't necessarliy make this differentiation.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by disha »

I am reading about the baki urbanization thingy and a tubelight moment for me,

In Bakistan, rapid urbanization is not due to economy growing but economy shrinking. That is the urban bakis are growing poorer and the net result people think is that more poorer people are coming from rural areas. Now there is another twist to it, because of better medical facilities in urban areas, the child mortality is lower compared to child mortality in rural bakis. Further the average fertility will be higher compared to rural areas (less maternal mortality at child birth). This leads to net increase in population in urban areas compared to rural areas.

So all I need is statistics about urban to rural fertility, mmr, burden of diseases report from bakistan to prove my point.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Ambar »

We should have a separate thread for the most mindless columns in newspapers! Well, here's one from Kori Schake on CNN ( this is right on with Yawn's Huma Yusuf' blog late last week when she turned a topic on unemployment in south-western US into a Kashmir topic with true lawhori logic !)
(CNN) -- The Obama administration is withholding $800 million in military aid to Pakistan in understandable frustration with the Pakistani military's partial-at-best cooperation with the effort against militant radicals. But this approach is likely to result in even less cooperation.

Relations between the two nations have been spiraling downward for a while, in crisis after crisis: Pakistanis held an American who had shot and killed two people on murder charges, although the U.S. insisted he had diplomatic immunity and should be released. We didn't inform the Pakistanis in advance of the Osama bin Laden raid; they expelled U.S. intelligence and military trainers; we accused the Pakistani military of killing an investigative journalist; we reduced assistance by a third to penalize a lack of cooperation. But our problem is that deteriorating relations hurt American interests more than Pakistan's.

To Pakistan's military leaders, the defining event in relations with the U.S. came in 1998, when the U.S. cut off aid after Pakistan's nuclear test.

Pakistan was responding to India's nuclear test with its own, but found itself sanctioned by the U.S. to a greater degree than India. America's different treatment of the two nations was logical: Unlike India, Pakistan is a major proliferation threat, dispensing its knowledge, according to the Arms Control Association, to Iran, Libya and North Korea. Moreover, it is a politically less stable country, at that time a military dictatorship.

To Pakistan, this event symbolized America's partiality for India and its willingness to subordinate all issues of common interest to nuclear proliferation. Cutting off aid led to a decade of Pakistani military leaders coming to power with little connection to the U.S. and a deep resentment of aid with strings attached.

The Pakistanis view American policy in the context of this bitterness, combined with their perception that the U.S. abandoned Afghanistan after the Soviets were driven out. Pakistan's military claims the conditions American puts on aid are unacceptable.

President Barack Obama's emphasis of exit over strategy in the Afghanistan drawdown will exacerbate Pakistanis' belief that we are losing interest and they will be on their own in hostile circumstances. They are undoubtedly concerned about Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta's recent statement that killing 10 leaders would defeat al Qaeda, and his recommendation for "an increasingly aggressive campaign to hunt down al Qaeda leaders in Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia."

We don't have to share Pakistan's perspective to understand how it could decide to cooperate even less in fighting al Qaeda and its spinoffs, undercut our efforts to build regional alliances that will strengthen Afghanistan and prevent efforts to stop proliferation of nuclear weapons.

That Pakistan seems unwilling to function with U.S. interests in mind argues for more, not less, assistance. If we want to break the back of the threat posed by violent Islam, we must bring Pakistan along.


The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Kori Schake.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Shrinivasan »

Amber, we should not give that much importance to these rants and improve their page hits, at best post experts from these articles to expose their perfidy, jingos can then visit just to tear their log apart in comments section. My 0.0000002 cents.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Shrinivasan »

disha wrote:I am reading about the baki urbanization thingy and a tubelight moment for me,

In Bakistan, rapid urbanization is not due to economy growing but economy shrinking. That is the urban bakis are growing poorer and the net result people think is that more poorer people are coming from rural areas. Now there is another twist to it, because of better medical facilities in urban areas, the child mortality is lower compared to child mortality in rural bakis. Further the average fertility will be higher compared to rural areas (less maternal mortality at child birth). This leads to net increase in population in urban areas compared to t.
a major reason for jump in urban population. Is the influx pf afghan/phakthoon refugees, they tend to gravitate towards urban population centers. Medical and sanitation facilities are uniformly poor everywhere. Actually there is less pressure on resources in rural areas than urban areas.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by shyamd »

He'll be welcomed with more intercepts and "special info" per ali chishti. Pak trying to get back into unkil good books by replacing afghan desk head.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Shrinivasan »

shyamd wrote:
He'll be welcomed with more intercepts and "special info" per ali chishti. Pak trying to get back into unkil good books by replacing afghan desk head.
Or even arrested as he is listed as an accused in the 26/11 Mumbai attack case in a NY court case.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by nikhilarora »

Nothing ike that would happen, the Abduls are not fools, he is going on behalf of GOP (atleast showing so). If any chances were there of himbeing arrested, he would have gone hiding into the rat sewer. Also, if Unkil had to arrest him, he would have done that by now tracking him into the sewer. Unkil has no such intentions. :|
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Lalmohan »

on the other hand, when ISI grand poobahs go to pay homage to caesar, then normally a terror strike happens in india... need to be vigilant
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by SSridhar »

Lalmohan wrote:on the other hand, when ISI grand poobahs go to pay homage to caesar, then normally a terror strike happens in india...
Or, even in the US.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Shrinivasan »

SSridhar wrote:
Lalmohan wrote:on the other hand, when ISI grand poobahs go to pay homage to caesar, then normally a terror strike happens in india...
Or, even in the US.
Rightly said, if a judge in NYC approves a warrant then things will move. Remember the previous time where Pasha left in one day when his original trip was planned for 3 days, fox was saying he feared he might be arrested.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Gus »

SSridhar wrote: Or, even in the US.
There is an eerie resemblance. The last time a major figure got assassinated in afg, pak was not given money it thinks it is entitled to, and the ISI chief jihadi visited US, 911 happened.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by A_Gupta »

shiv wrote: I believe that such a conclusion, while easy to reach is nonsense. It so happens that India is showing economic growth and the urbanization in India can be explained away as a part of that. But the economic growth of Pakistan is slow, if not negative. But its urbanization is fast. Fater than India according to those reports.
As per the 1998 census of Pakistan, the ratio of urban/rural population was 0.48; by 2001, the Pakistan sample survey had it at 0.556; then it started declining (as per these surveys) down to 0.544 in 2007.

(a) Pakistan is more urbanized than India by some percentage. What is connected with economic growth however is the growth in urbanization.

(b) The connection between economic growth and urbanization has generally held all over the world - except Africa. In particular if the online literature is to be believed, the connection has been particularly strong in Asia. That is why the question - is Pakistan like Africa?

(c) The urban resident is typically more productive than the rural resident. It doesn't mean he is richer or better off, because the cost of living in the city may be much higher than his higher income from increased productivity. But the increased productivity is what shows up in the GDP figures.

(d) But in any case, Pakistan's own figures do not show any rapidly increasing urbanization in the 2001-2007 period - it in fact declined a little, so it is all moot.

In particular, the weakly declining urbanization during the Musharraf regime and the postulated connection between economic growth and urbanization suggest that our intuitions are justified that Pak. economic figures during the Musharraf era are mostly cooked up.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by SSridhar »

Breaking News. Couple of blasts in Mumbai, one at Opera House and the other at Dadar. Coincides with hectic evening rush hours. One more explosion also reported but not confirmed.
Added later: Third explosion at Zhaveribazar
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by rohitvats »

Lalmohan wrote:on the other hand, when ISI grand poobahs go to pay homage to caesar, then normally a terror strike happens in india... need to be vigilant
I bow to thee, sire.....(though I wish I had not had the reason to do so :( )
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by harbans »

4 Blasts being reported presently. Charni Road, Opera House also. Who can be behind this? Tibetans, Jains, Col Purohit? This is really puzzling.. :?:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by JE Menon »

In my opinion, now is a very good time to spread widely the fact that the motto of the Pakistani army is:


Iman, Taqwa, Jihad fi Sabilillah
Faith, Piety, Jihad in the Way of Allah

http://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/AWPRevie ... 17&rnd=108

Enough Americans and Europeans know the meaning of Jihad to understand the implications.
So BRFites, feel free to use your social networking and other special skills to do the necessary.
Every drop counts.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Lalmohan »

rohitvats wrote:
Lalmohan wrote:on the other hand, when ISI grand poobahs go to pay homage to caesar, then normally a terror strike happens in india... need to be vigilant
I bow to thee, sire.....(though I wish I had not had the reason to do so :( )
:( :( :(
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Rana »

Three blasts rock Mumbai, at least 15 injured

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 212554.cmstards

B@stards.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Vipin_Upadhyay »

a couple of Brahmos at Jamat-ud-Dawa offices to begin...

but with MMS, 2G, 3G, SoniaG at helm I can only have my fundamental right of wishful thinking. :(
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by shiv »

cross post
A few days I ago I made a post (can't locate it now) that went something like this
shiv wrote: Why has there been a decrease in the number of terror attacks? The possibilities are
1. Aman ki tamasha is working
2. US is paying Pakistan not to attack
3. Pakistan has had change of heart
I think No 2 above is correct.

It is important for the US not to restart funding of Pakistan. If the funding is not restarted and no war can be provoked with India then Pakistan will sink just that bit more into the shit pit that is belongs in.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by partha »

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Nandu »

Lalmohan wrote:on the other hand, when ISI grand poobahs go to pay homage to caesar, then normally a terror strike happens in india... need to be vigilant
Your prediction came true.
What does the Pakis hope to achieve from Unkil by conducting a terror strike in India?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by partha »

shiv wrote:cross post
A few days I ago I made a post (can't locate it now) that went something like this
shiv wrote: Why has there been a decrease in the number of terror attacks? The possibilities are
1. Aman ki tamasha is working
2. US is paying Pakistan not to attack
3. Pakistan has had change of heart
I think No 2 above is correct.

It is important for the US not to restart funding of Pakistan. If the funding is not restarted and no war can be provoked with India then Pakistan will sink just that bit more into the shit pit that is belongs in.
That's a good observation Shivji. I can imagine Pak now saying to US - "See if you stop giving me $$, this is what happens. Terror attacks in India. This will trigger war and will affect your AfPak plans."
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by suryag »

They dont know that we wont goto war come what may
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by svinayak »

At Least 17 Reportedly Dead After Explosions Rock Mumbai Markets
Fox News - ‎31 minutes ago‎
Three separate explosions tore through a business district in India's Mumbai Wednesday, leaving at least 17 people dead and 54 injured, authorities said. Less than an hour after the series of blasts, its Home Ministry confirmed a terrorist attack and ...

http://news.google.com/news/more?pz=1&c ... ZM&topic=h
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by svinayak »

Posted earlier
This is a totally false info they are trying to push. The entire image of pakistan is being made by western
analyst and trying to create false info.
This is total propaganda and these authors have to be shown as propaganda authors.

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com ... xtremists/
Third, poor Pakistanis nationwide disliked the militant groups about two times more than middle class Pakistanis, who were mildly positive toward the groups. We suspect that this is because much of Pakistan’s militant violence is concentrated in poorer areas and in the bazaars and mosques where less affluent people sell goods, shop, and pray. In addition to being in more physical danger than the rich, the poor are at more of an economic risk from attacks, and income losses are more consequential for them. Wealthier people often have servants run errands to bazaars, and when they do personal shopping they are likelier to do so in upscale stores in their own neighborhoods, which are safer.
Finally, this dislike is strongest among poor urban residents. The negative relationship between poverty and support for militancy is three times stronger in urban Pakistan than in the country as a whole. This finding reinforces the idea that the dislike of the groups is driven by greater exposure to their attacks, which are concentrated in urban areas.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by saip »

A letter from my Senator in reply to my complaint about aid to Pakistan:
Dear Mr. P:

Thank you for your letter concerning U.S. assistance to Pakistan. I appreciate the time you took to write me.

I understand your concerns about U.S. relations with Pakistan. I am deeply concerned about reports that Pakistani officials and security services have provided assistance to terrorist groups and were involved in the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction from Pakistan to other countries.

Since September 2001, Pakistan has played an instrumental role in the global war on terrorism and it remains an important ally in the region. I am hopeful that our partnership with Pakistan's government will serve as an impetus for implementations of further political reforms in the country, increased action against terrorists and the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, and reviving the process of reconciliation and peace between Pakistan and India. Please know that I will keep your concerns in mind as I continue to monitor our evolving relations with Pakistan.


Even though it is in the usual lingo, I am surprised someone in her office took time to reply.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by RajeshA »

Well done saip ji! Every letter counts.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by shyamd »

saip, well done! Proud of you. I wish we could organise collectively to do this. Can we have a thread for this in the GDF?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by RajeshA »

shyamd wrote:saip, well done! Proud of you. I wish we could organise collectively to do this. Can we have a thread for this in the GDF?
There is this thread: The Letter-Writing Thread
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by Prem »

http://www.chinaherald.net/2011/07/expe ... egion.html
Expected: Pakistan autonomous region
Of course, China’s alliance with Pakistan serves to poke a stick in America’s eye. The Americans have seen their credibility with the Pakistanis decrease nearly daily since the assasination of bin Laden. A closer relationship with Pakistan also helps China leverage negotiations with India on issues ranging from trade through territorial disputes.
Still, China may eventually rue the day it built the bed into which it crawled with a fundamentally fundamentalist, corrupt, poverty-stricken and unstable country. China’s prognostications of non-interference in the internal affairs of other countries may undergo a major test when it finds Chinese merchants or engineers or even soldiers under fire from Islamic extremists.Then, perhaps, China will begin to understand that with wealth and standing in the world comes commensurate responsibility and accountability.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by shyamd »

RajeshA thanks.

--------------
Expectation was that Pasha will receive SSS intercepts, Haqqani to be delivered on platter. The change of ISI desk head for AfPak means Pak trying for reapproachjment with US. Funny because looks like PRC said we can't go against US. So Pak is fudged.

What great thinking by corps "crore" commanders again. Maybe he did it to deflect pressure after OBL raid. Who knows. But TSPA appears to be falling back in line or trying to anyway. US got the stick out and give a whooping probably before TSPA allowed to have reapproachment
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Post by RajeshG »

A few days ago there was some discussion about the Pakistani Gene. I had mentioned about the silver fox experiment. I ran into another article on Natl Geo. Its really interesting to say the least..

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/ ... tliff-text

Many interesting things. To summarize tho Belyaev and his group's experiments involve breeding silver foxes which havent been domesticated yet. One group they selectively breed the increasingly friendly kind and another group, the wild kind. The differences are stark - in terms of behavior, brains and looks..

First a description of the friendly SDRE kind..
Mavrik, the object of Trut's attention, is about the size of a Shetland sheepdog, with chestnut orange fur and a white bib down his front. He plays his designated role in turn: wagging his tail, rolling on his back, panting eagerly in anticipation of attention. In adjacent cages lining either side of the narrow, open-sided shed, dozens of canids do the same, yelping and clamoring in an explosion of fur and unbridled excitement. "As you can see," Trut says above the din, "all of them want human contact." Today, however, Mavrik is the lucky recipient. Trut reaches in and scoops him up, then hands him over to me. Cradled in my arms, gently jawing my hand in his mouth, he's as docile as any lapdog.
And for contrast the wild TFTA kind..
So in a mirror image of the friendly foxes, the kits in the aggressive population are rated according to the hostility of their behavior. Only the most aggressive are bred for the next generation. Here are the evil twins of the tail-wagging Mavrik, straight out of a B-grade horror film: hissing, baring their teeth, snapping at the front of their cages when any human approaches.
Reg how it might relate to humans..
In 2003 a young researcher at Duke University named Brian Hare traveled out to Novosibirsk. Hare is known for his work cataloging the unique behaviors of dogs and wolves, showing the ways in which dogs have evolved to follow human cues like pointing and eye movements. When he conducted similar tests on fox kits in Siberia, he found that they did just as well as puppies of the same age. The results, while preliminary, suggest that selecting against fear and aggression—what Hare calls "emotional reactivity"—has created foxes that are not just tame but that also have the doglike ability to engage with humans using their social cues.

"They didn't select for a smarter fox but for a nice fox," says Hare. "But they ended up getting a smart fox." This research also has implications for the origins of human social behavior. "Are we domesticated in the sense of dogs? No. But I am comfortable saying that the first thing that has to happen to get a human from an apelike ancestor is a substantial increase in tolerance toward one another. There had to be a change in our social system."
IOW there is a good possibility of a Paki phenotype.
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