The Red Menace

[brihaspati]

In a way the anti-SJ forces have combined to discredit the one method that could postpone a civil war. Since the Kongshaal will continue to collaborate with each other for mutual political benefit, and the rashtryia functionaries will show the results of Thaparite and Marxian indoctrination - together with super-inflated egos of sublime brains - a time point will come when the victims of maoists will not distinguish between the Kongshal, the rashtra and its eminent functionaries who cannot find a single word of condemnation for Maoist in page page after page of what is supposed to be a "judgment" - and who can onlee find socio-economic theories to justify Maoist action as a historical reaction but nothing much to find any such justification of the opposing "historical reaction".

If the victims see that the rashtra+functionaries+Kongsaal are one and the same - and these latter can rule onlee because they have the guns [the sublime brains thought that "tribals" would turn against the "rashtra" if they were "armed"], what will they see as the onlee way out?

[brihaspati]

Rudradev ji,
the judges express the underlying thought process of the rashtra quite well : "if the tribals are armed, they may turn against the state". Thus the rashtra already (1) distinguishes between its own "people" as tribals and non-tribals (2) it acknowledges that the rashtra is so much so an anathema to the people that if the people get arms they will turn against the rashtra. In the same way, the ackowledgment is also there that the rashtra can survive onlee by monopolizing violence and keeping its population defenceless against rashtryia violence.

This is what I have been calling for almost a year - a sign of the rashtryia machinery acknowledging that it is disintegrating, ideologically.

[somnath]

We have regurgitation of innuendos and lies to defend the indefensible...

using constitutional mechanisms of the state, to sabotage counterinsurgency efforts against terrorist groups waging war on the state. Evidently because those terrorist groups were feeling too much pain to keep up the fight by solely extra-constitutional means!

It would be interesting to see what constitutes "pain" for the naxalites.."Pain" for having succeeded in killing some more SFs?! Or the "pain" of having organised another IED blast under a CRPF convoy? Or indeed is it the "pain" of losing fictitious cadres (SATP notes that "kill" claims in C'garh typically are not corroborated by bodies and/or weapons)!? Pain indeed...

Non-sequiturs about “fiscal space” aside, Chhatisgarh simply does not have the resources to combat its Maoist insurgency without empowering its tribals to protect their homes and families. The complicity of the Congress GOI in underfunding Chhatisgarh’s counter-insurgency efforts, detailed in the posts linked above, speaks for itself

Lack of resources! One thought that "fiscal" strength constitutes "resources" in public finance - maybe not in certain ideological terms...Underfunding? Well..
http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... ojects-iap

UP has left behind the usually "better performing" states like Andhra Pradesh, Jharkhand and Maharashtra to clock 117% expenditure on development works as against the funds released under the IAP scheme
-----------------------------
Among the states worst affected by Left-wing extremism, while Andhra Pradesh has come second in performance with over 77% utilisation of Central funds, Jharkhand has overtaken Chattisgarh in initiating projects under the IAP scheme as well as in utilisation of the funds released.
-------------------------------
While Jharkhand has spent 60% of the funds, Chattisgarh lags behind with just 51% utilisation. Maharashtra has done well with over 65% utilisation. Though Orissa has only spent 44% of the IAP

Not to mention the fact that it was the Centre that has been funding the "gloriously successful" Salwa Judum experiment.....

The same successful experiment that will deliver..

rather than asserting that there can be “no military solution” to a military threat

So insurgency is a "military" threat, and EN Rammohan should have known better..Indeed, he is in the august company of successive Army Chiefs who have publicly articulated even on Kashmir that there is no "military solution", and it has to be a political one...I guess only the ideologically pure non-mainowadis know the "final solutions"

And lastly,

It cannot be denied that certain retired police and BSF officials have been critical of the Chhatisgarh government’s decision to raise Salwa Judum and tribal SPOs as instruments of counter-insurgency.
This seems contradictory, especially because actively serving members of the central security forces have hailed those same tribal SPOs as crucial to their efforts against the Maoists:

Seems that ideologically pristine viewpoints need some real stretches of imagination..So serving officers support (an do not oppose, publicly) the views of the political leadership on policy decisions - maybe the ideological guardians need to familiarise themselves with concepts like "service rules", not to talk of common sense career downsides of serving officer publicly criticising govt policy...

There are people like Prakash Singh and Ajit Doval, to be sure, who have supported the SJ development (they were members of the Planning Commission committee whose report the SC order extensively quotes - but they did not sign up to the section on SJ in that report, though they did sign up to the rest of the report)...

There are multiple views on the issue - but seen purely from the prism of results on the ground, its time for change..

[Rudradev]

Rudradev ji,
the judges express the underlying thought process of the rashtra quite well : "if the tribals are armed, they may turn against the state". Thus the rashtra already (1) distinguishes between its own "people" as tribals and non-tribals (2) it acknowledges that the rashtra is so much so an anathema to the people that if the people get arms they will turn against the rashtra. In the same way, the ackowledgment is also there that the rashtra can survive onlee by monopolizing violence and keeping its population defenceless against rashtryia violence.

This is what I have been calling for almost a year - a sign of the rashtryia machinery acknowledging that it is disintegrating, ideologically.

Brihaspati-ji, it is absolutely amazing what the most voluble purveyors of Marxist rhetoric (which appears in spades in the anti-Salwa Judum judgement,) will reveal about their own staggering class prejudices if only given enough rope. There is no dearth of elite-iskool illustrations of this phenomenon, right here on our forum!
The rashtriya machinery under the Mainovadis is indeed acknowledging its ideological bankruptcy, and at the same time, people across all strata of society are beginning to question its moral and political legitimacy. Their greatest fear is that insurgency, which they consider a valuable weapon against political opponents when restricted to select groups of "tribals", may appear increasingly attractive to the subset of people they consider "non-tribals." Hence, carrying the gun is permissible for select "tribal" groups carrying the lal jhanda and declaring war on the nation... but completely unacceptable for common people who do not subscribe to that much-needed ideological foil of Maoism.

[Rudradev]

Meanwhile, the tiresome canards never cease to billow from the breathless orificies of Mainovadi apologism.

Apparently, a high number of security-force casualties is being proffered as a benchmark of strategic failure in Chhatisgarh's counter-insurgency program. Because of course, in the Mainovadi world, wars are "won" exclusively by avoiding battles so as to minimize casualties (unless the enemy happens to be unarmed, defenceless citizens fast asleep in the middle of the night, when it is perfectly ok to deploy security forces against them, as in Delhi's Ramlila grounds.)

Someone with a similar "comprehension" of military history, should explain to the Russians that they lost WWII by incurring the largest number of casualties of any participant nation in that conflict.

Honestly, though, to speak of pain caused to the Maoists by Salwa Judum, the indications are clear.

From http://swapan-dasgupta.blogspot.com/200 ... 72006.html

The magnitude of the opposition to Salwa Judum may seem surprising considering its scope is so far limited to Dantewada district—a Congress, not BJP stronghold. Yet the CPI(Maoist) has thrown its entire resources—both political and military—behind an attempt to snuff out a popular movement against its armed terror. Almost the entire top Maoist leadership, mainly drawn from Andhra Pradesh, has moved into the Dandakaranya region, particularly the 3,924 sq km of the thickly forested Abujhmad region. It has shifted both men and material from adjoining Andhra Pradesh, Orissa and Gadhchiroli district of Maharashtra into Abujhmad to ensure that Salwa Judum does not spread beyond the 645 villages of Dantewada.

If the Maoists were not under serious pressure from Salwa Judum, what was the need for them to move their entire resources from three neighbouring states and concentrate them in the particular theatre of operations where Salwa Judum was active?

Let us remember that the Maoists are not Jihadis or Fidayeen. Staging attacks and running up a body count of security forces does not mean as much to them as exploiting tribals, collecting bribes from mining companies and lording it over "liberated zones." For them to concentrate their entire resources in Dantewada demonstrates that they considered Salwa Judum a grave and existential threat.

On the question of underfunding, the numbers again speak for themselves.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/po ... 92992.html

Chhatisgarh is hardly alone in under-utilizing Central funds. However, it's worth noting that Chhatisgarh (facing "the greatest threat to India's internal security" per MMS) has been allotted a paltry Rs. 42 crore. As compared to Haryana, a state with no significant law-and-order issues, that has been allotted Rs.100 crores! Other states affected by Maoism are getting 223 crores (Maharashtra), 206 crores (Bihar), 180 crores (MP), 113 crores (AP)... but Chhatisgarh must make do with a mere 42 crores according to this allocation of Central funds for "police modernization"!

The Centre offers Chhatisgarh inadequate funding with one hand, while sabotaging Chhatisgarh's counter-insurgency efforts (through "uncivil society" proxies) with the other hand.

Another canard seems to derive solely from that unique Elite Iskool manner of "comprehension" which we are so often lectured upon.

Several IA generals may have said that there cannot be a purely military solution to J&K insurgency as a whole, but has even one of them denied that J&K insurgency has a military component which must be dealt with by military means? This is a far cry from the alleged quote by EN Rammohan, which is

Above all there can be no military solution to this problem.

Does Mr. Rammohan genuinely believe there is no military component to the Maoist menace, and that there is no military solution applicable to that military component of Maoist insurgency? Or is it that the Mainovadi bootlicking media (and its cherry-picking apologists on this forum) have simply misquoted him? Given the level of intellectual honesty on display, the latter seems a far more likely explanation.

Finally, we have a pure strawman... that apparently, actively serving CRPF officers only praise the Salwa Judum and tribal SPOs because of "service rules!"

I'm sure we would all love to see the clause of "service rules" that requires serving officers, not only to refrain from criticizing state policy, but to actively give interviews to the media where they acknowledge highly specific aspects of counter-insurgency strategy as crucially important.

I'm sure we'd also like to understand the "common-sense"/ sucking-up-for-career-advancement motivation of the CRPF officer who made this comment... considering that, as an interviewee, he also chose to remain anyonymous! http://naxalwatch.blogspot.com/2011/01/ ... ategy.html

[Hari Seldon]

RD sir,

Very nicely articulated. The factoid on maovadis throwing so many resources against Salwa Judum in Dantewada, the rising shrillness among the overgroundus and apologists against the nascent movement etc all point to much more than meets the eye.

Of course, what we folks with ordinary comprehension can see needn't matter at all for the routinely super-comprehending type only whose criticism is reserved for the nameless RSSvadi Ramlal in the NDA govt who must have wriggled some out of turn petrol pump allotments, it is alleged. Talk about priorities, proportion or pespective only. They all morph amazingly in super-comprehension land...

[somnath]

Ideology and predilections apart, its amusing to see callisthenics with facts..

Someone with a similar "comprehension" of military history, should explain to the Russians that they lost WWII by incurring the largest number of casualties of any participant nation in that conflict.

Of course, the numbers of German killed by the Russians, and territories annexed is only incidental...So SFs getting killed en masse are a sign of "success" of "giving fight", people having to be rounded up forcibly in camps is also a sign of territories being "reocvered from Maoists" I guess! Fictitious maoist "kill" claims are also a success in book keeping

Anyways, the most amount of hilarity is in the numbers..Underfunding proof?

On the question of underfunding, the numbers again speak for themselves.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/po ... 92992.html

One, the postor doesnt even seem to have read the article..It says...

The Centre's no-refund grant to states for modernising their police forces to fight terrorists and criminals has few takers with only Gujarat, Kerala and Manipur showing any interest.

So the "most threatened" state of C'garh doesnt think it worthwhile to even touch the grant, but apologists need to whine about "underfunding"..

Two, this is just one part of a very substantial Central grants programme towards states in general, including the special IAP for naxal-affected districts...The ET report referenced was referring to performance on IAP...When utilisation is 50%, its a bit rich to whine about "underfunding"..

Three, it seems to have missed the uber nationalists that the SC order on SJ was directed as much at the Centre as at the state..Why? Because the entire SJ/SPO stuff was funded by the Centre! Underfunding?

Does Mr. Rammohan genuinely believe there is no military component to the Maoist menace, and that there is no military solution applicable to that military component of Maoist insurgency? Or is it that the Mainovadi bootlicking media (and its cherry-picking apologists on this forum) have simply misquoted him?

For most people, the difference between a "solution" and creating "enabling conditions" is pretty easy to fathom..Not so, it seems for some! Insurgencies never have military solutions, the "solution" is always political - a military campaign can control the violence levels and soften up the hardliners to create enabling conditions...
Misquoted? It was an article written by Rammohan...Here's another one, by Gen VP Malik..
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... malik.html

There is no military solution to J&K problem.

Annexation of J&K is more a military agenda than a political agenda in Pakistan.No major breakthrough can be expected on Kashmir dispute in the coming decade unless the military in Pakistan and a strong political centre in India are prepared to change their stance.This was the fourth war over J&K, not counting the ongoing skirmishes in Siachen Glacier area and Pak sponsored proxy war in large parts of the State. That makes it obvious that the J&K problem cannot be resolved militarily by Pakistan or India.

but why let go of "easy targets", when the alternatives are a bit more complex?!

[brihaspati]

So whenever any army commander talks about politics it has to be taken seriously, isn't it? Is it onlee to be taken seriously if it bolsters the uber pseudo-secularist pseudo-nationalist agenda or it runs across the board? There are some spectacular counter-examples too - which go against the pseudo-secularist mercantile-mentality nation-sellers.

By the reverse logic, if people who are not "professionally" experienced about politics should be given weight about their drippings on politics - we should also give weight to drippings from people who are not "professionally" experienced about the military side also talking about what needs to be done on the military front!

It is interesting that J&K is brought up here in dealing with the "Reds". So the underlying strategy is still the same for both Reds and Islamists - try and preserve them so that they can be unleashed on hated common enemies of the Kongshalmullah. Hold back armed action on redmullahs if it threatens to wipe them out independent of any dynastic control over the process [as in Kashmir when Loony no. 1 of the Loony-Liaquat fame tried to hold back], and so too in the case of reds inside - as otherwise the redmullahs cannot be used tactically against hated domestic enemies. If the armymen are making noises about "politics" perhaps this is what they are referring to - that there is a lack of political will on the part of the dynasty and its bootlickers - to seriously end the redmullah problem.

[brihaspati]

Gen. Cariappa must not be feeling very happy to hear our uber-pseudo-secularist rants.

[Arjun]

Insurgencies never have military solutions, the "solution" is always political - a military campaign can control the violence levels and soften up the hardliners to create enabling conditions...

This is classic 'appeasement' talk that the Congress, like other left-liberal parties the world over, has always specialized in...

The takeaway from your logic, for the myriad groups with grievances in India is this - if you fight the battle through peaceful and democratic means (ala Ramdev) the government is likely to respond in military / authoritarian fashion. If however you morph into a militant 'insurgency' outfit with no qualms in using violence - then the government is likely to start taking you seriously and start negotiating for a political solution.

Maybe the Hindutva groups in India should start paying attention to these takeaways.

[brihaspati]

On Matters of Principles
V K Shrivastava [Major General V K Shrivastava (Retd) is former Executive Editor of the Indian Defence Review and former Senior Fellow at IDSA, New Delhi.]
CLAWS Journal Winter 2009

These endeavours also reveal the nation’s core ideas on war. “Independent government of India...took the stubborn view, that security came from peace rather than peace from security”.13 In essence, therefore, the Indian policy has been that of war prevention. In consonance, it has never initiated a war. Even so, when a war was thrust upon the nation, the political leadership responded with steely resolve while trying simultaneously to restrict the scope of the conflict. During the Kargil War, for example, the hostilities were confined to the areas of intrusions and neither was the Line of Control (LoC) allowed to be crossed nor the air space to be violated. Further, successive Indian governments have repeatedly opted for an early conflict termination. Was it not India that took the Kashmir issue to the United Nations (UN) in December 1947? Similarly, in CI situations, the government was usually quick to order the army back to the barracks at the slightest hint of reconciliation from the insurgents.

In the light of the foregoing, some analytical observations are being made:

The Indian approach to wars enabled it to retain the moral high ground. The philosophy must be taken a note of since similar political assertions are likely to influence our future military undertakings.

Political disregard for the armed forces’ participation in the decision-making process was apparent in almost all our military ventures. As may be recalled, in 1951, Nehru is known to have told Gen Cariappa, “It is not the business of the commander-in chief to tell the prime minister who is going to attack us where. In fact, the Chinese will.”14. Such misplaced notions led to the debacle of 1962. Similar politico-military disconnect resulted in the infirmities of political directions and the Sri Lankan misadventure. When such advice was sought and heeded as in 1971, the armed forces created history.

In quest of peace, India always bargained for an early end of hostilities and in the promptitude, invariably failed to successfully stage the “end game” through politico-diplomatic initiatives. As a result, hard earned military gains were repeatedly squandered away – in the UN, in Tashkent and in Shimla. Not surprisingly, therefore, despite four wars, the J&K issue has remained unresolved. In CI, the insurgents in order to extricate and regroup themselves, routinely misused situations in similar inclinations of the government.

Our righteous intentions and actions were never capitalised on to mould the world opinion in our favour.

by never initiating a war, we surrendered the initiative to our adversaries. Our self-imposed restraints closed some of the offensive options. Weighed down by such disadvantages, the orchestration of tri-Service synergy within the short duration of the war became all the more difficult.

India’s defensive orientations have led to indifferent intelligence efforts and repeated fiascos. The consequences of the collective intelligence failures in Sri Lanka and in Kargil need no recounting. Our record on this count in dealing with insurgency and terrorism has been equally dismal.

All these, regrettably, project India as a soft state.

Readers can draw their own conclusions. I will only point out one aspect: he talks of India's "philosophy" guiding realpolitik decisions - strange isnt it? What happened to the shrill claim of the uber pseudo secularist that philosophies do not guide national decisions! This means this army officer must be disconnected from the reality of his nations' realpolitik - which in turn casts some doubt on how far we should take armymen's comments about politics isnt it?

So shall we extend the same logic to the Reds?

[brihaspati]

I would suggest that every voice in whatever form talks or even hints at measures that will postpone/reduce attrition or annihilation pressure/give breathing space to the redmullah combinations - from whatever background they be - should be tracked for possible anti-national affiliations. Either out of personal deficiencies of character and greed, or already bought and sold because of ideological pot-smoking and self-hatred - these are voices knowingly or unknowingly pushing the agenda of foreign hostile elements. They should be followed in the future for their roles and when the time comes they must be investigated for treasonable activities.

[somnath]

if you fight the battle through peaceful and democratic means (ala Ramdev) the government is likely to respond in military / authoritarian fashion. If however you morph into a militant 'insurgency' outfit with no qualms in using violence - then the government is likely to start taking you seriously and start negotiating for a political solution

That has unfortunately been true in some cases at least..Baba Ramdev is hardly an example of that, but the govt pays little heed to the likes of an Irom Sharmila, but does pay a lot more heed to myriad Manipuri insurgent groups..

But I think this is changing now - there is a lot more sensitivity to public opinion, the Anna Hazare effort showed that....

However, that isnt/wasnt your point I guess..This was...

This is classic 'appeasement' talk that the Congress, like other left-liberal parties the world over, has always specialized in...

ALL insurgencies have to have a political solution - its almost tautological...And repeatedly articulated by the professional soldiers - they know the limitations of their craft...From Punjab to Mizoram to the Iraqi insurgency today - military actions soften up the militants, bring a section of the underground overground, reduce the level of fear and violence...But the "solution" is always political...The Beant Singh govt in Punjab, the pact with Laldenga in Mizoram, or indeed the deals with Moqtada Al Sadr in Iraq....

I guess from Gen Malik (and many other Army chiefs) to policemen like EN Rammohan - all are left liberals! Not too bad, eh, for the left liberalati

[brihaspati]

It would be interesting to forward this line of uber-pseudo-secularist closet-Maoist ponderings on army officer's brief comments about the need for "political solutions" and spinning them into support of the p-sec agenda to protect and concede more to the redmullah hordes - to the army officers themselves and seek their clarifications as to what exactly they meant by "political solution". Did they intend to say "political will" but could not because then the dynastic bootlickers would take umbrage? Did they really mean clarity on the part of GOI as to what they really wanted to do with the redmullah hordes? Was the GOI actually intent on preserving them or destroying them? Clarifying these could of course be "politically" costly for the officers! Dunno!

[Arjun]

ALL insurgencies have to have a political solution - its almost tautological...And repeatedly articulated by the professional soldiers - they know the limitations of their craft...From Punjab to Mizoram to the Iraqi insurgency today - military actions soften up the militants, bring a section of the underground overground, reduce the level of fear and violence...But the "solution" is always political...The Beant Singh govt in Punjab, the pact with Laldenga in Mizoram, or indeed the deals with Moqtada Al Sadr in Iraq....

I have no doubt that the generals are correct, but they are commenting on the situation where an on-the-ground insurgency exists. Also they probably mean that the final settlement needs to be political but ONLY when the government is negotiating from a position of strength based on near-victory on the military front.

But this is also an extremely dangerous attitude for a government to adopt in India. India being the land of argumentative Indians - is also the land of a million grievances. It is also the land of jugaad where folks see immediately what tactics are working and what are not. So for those groups with grievances who have not yet morphed into an 'insurgency' - the takeaway is clear. They see the government busy spending its time negotiating with a host of other insurgency groups of which there is no dearth in India - and obviously that leaves the government with little time or energy to negotiate with groups that are actually non-violent. So what do the argumentative, jugaad-loving groups of India that are working for a cause, learn from the entire experience ? Any guesses?

[brihaspati]

Rudradev ji,
a long time ago we had talked of the reds being brought over to the right. The time for that could be approaching. There are possibilities from what I keep a tab on. Maybe we can discuss elsewhere?

[somnath]

They see the government busy spending its time negotiating with a host of other insurgency groups of which there is no dearth in India - and obviously that leaves the government with little time or energy to negotiate with groups that are actually non-violent. So what do the argumentative, jugaad-loving groups of India that are working for a cause, learn from the entire experience ? Any guesses?

If anything, it means that the govt has to be more sensitive to public opinion on issues..They cannot procrastinate ad infinitum on policy - the naxal menace is almost directly attributeable to a rapacious, faulty mining and land acquisition policy regime that hasnt changed in decades..

In the history of independent India, no insurgency started overnight by people trying their hand at jugaad...Long festering issues either were left unattended or worse, were taken advantage of by politicians (Punjab - INC - Bhindrawala nexus a an example)..Which is what spun the issue away into armed insurgency...

For naxalism, again it has to be a combination of local policing capacity and appropriate policy intereventions that are required.....Not ideological fulminations and excuses...

[Virupaksha]

If anything, it means that the govt has to be more sensitive to public opinion on issues..They cannot procrastinate ad infinitum on policy - the naxal menace is almost directly attributeable to a rapacious, faulty mining and land acquisition policy regime that hasnt changed in decades..

In the history of independent India, no insurgency started overnight by people trying their hand at jugaad...Long festering issues either were left unattended or worse, were taken advantage of by politicians (Punjab - INC - Bhindrawala nexus a an example)..Which is what spun the issue away into armed insurgency...

For naxalism, again it has to be a combination of local policing capacity and appropriate policy intereventions that are required.....Not ideological fulminations and excuses...

Not with standing your "ideological fulminations and excuses", naxals had a strong hold in andhra/west bengal even before there was mining or land acquisition done. Inspite of how you want paint everything in red, those are not the reasons.

If your ideology and logic was the case, the naxals would be more in the boundaries of cities, where the maximum land acquisition for SEZs/industries take place. That should give a big big clue, of how hollow your logic stands.

The naxals would be more in rayalseema part of andhra where most mining takes place where naxals are actually the least powerful. This is a paradox only for your logic and ideological narrative .

[somnath]

^^^The reasons for disaffection could be different across various regions, and over time...In Andhra, the initial "motivation" was land reforms, or the lack of it...The tebhaga/telengana "movements" had their narrative rooted in demands for land reforms....In Chattisgarh today, it is about mining and land acquisition for the same...

The crux of the matter is this - there are problems that get either ignored or exacerbated by the political class - the final solutions therefore lie in the political domain....Even as good policing can create ambient atmosphere...

And issues with land acquisition are seen from UP to Bengal, Haryana to Maharstra - there arent "naxals" in many of these places, thankfully - but without solving the issue, it is not inconceivable that the crowds could morph into something more sinister!

[brihaspati]

What a mess of chewing up facts about "Maoism" [once taken into multi-state references - there can be no excuse that "I never said I was not speaking onlee of WB" for "Naxalism"]. When the movement started it had nothing to do with "rapacious" mining and "land acquisition" - it was almost entirely about organizing peasant uprising against "existing patterns of landownership" - not new acquisitions.

In fact even the labour movement was not that much into "Maoism". Where do p-secs get their audacity to lie blatantly on historical facts - even modern historical facts! Some fulminating ideological training - phew!

[brihaspati]

The fact that is deliberately being ignored is that these insurgencies are always led by factions of the very same political elite that are in power. It is not the so-called deprived/repressed/defrauded who start the rebellions or violence or insurgencies. Look at the surnames and origins of the leaders of almost all of these insurgencies. And moreover most of such leaders come from relatively well-off well-supported bringing up. Their agitation is therefore about seeking of personal power which for one reason or other they feel they have been cheated out of. In this seeking they look for a gullible constituency to mobilize.

Each of these insurgencies are sourced from solid ideological perspectives, and which simply modify or compromise on those ideological objectives to gain a constituency of support.

The spin is that these movements are spontaneous - and have no conscious elite working behind with ideological aspirations. For such elite there will never be an end to their sense of "relative deprivation". The rapacious mining land acquisition is an excuse that manifests at one extreme of the same drive that manifests as Pacquiness to the west of our lands. They need an excuse to mobilize people to satisfy their personal sense of power.

This "policy intervention" bit is a ploy and a red herring. It is a diversion from the real reasons that sustain the ideological drives behind the leadership of the Ialsmist separatism like the Valley or the Pacquis, or ex-and now-piddling K-stanis, or EJ-ist NEasterners, or Maoists in the blood-corridor.

[kmkraoind]

SC called it illegal, but Bihar Police is recruiting villagers

How about changing the name of SPO like, Congress Muthi Vahini, but also train them to provide extra social responsibilities like Anganwadi, village record keeping like that.

[brihaspati]

Nah - name them Nehru Shrinkhala Sevaka Vahini or Rajiv Araksha Vahini - to have any chance of escaping the burning gaze of sublime brains or approval from p-secs.

[Suppiah]

Beijing puppet Nandigram rapist goon traitor, (who played a key role in training up the Nepalese Maoists into a potent anti-India force, collecting a reward of 'friendship' from Beijing and god knows how much $$$) has now certified that his paymasters have no objection to India becoming a permanent member of UN

If PRC commies are so keen on seeing India in the permanent seat, why not announce that in public instead of whispering into the ears of their slave puppets? After all, they even sabotaged India's NSG membership openly, so why would they want India in a position of influence?

[ManishH]

This article shows the kind of respect people of Jharkhand have for cops who have a proven record fighting crime and Naxalism:

Jamshedpur: Donning the politician's hat is an entirely new role for Dr Ajay Kumar, what is familiar is the setting - Jharkhand's East Singhbhum district, once notorious for its high crime rate.

It was here as a young Superintendent of Police, between 1994 to 1996, that Dr Kumar solved a host of murder cases, putting many high profile criminals behind bars.

He was known for his fierce independence and his refusal to not give in to political pressure.

It was perhaps for the first time under Dr Kumar that Singhbhum got a team of honest officers who ensured law and order in the area.

He subsequently resigned from the Indian Police Service to pursue a successful corporate career.

Now, he's back as the district's newest Lok Sabha Member of Parliament (MP) from the Jharkhand Vikas Morcha which was formed by Babulal Marandi

But here are allegations that he enlisted support of Naxals ...!

The BJP top brass, has summoned its Jharkhand leaders, including Arjun Munda, to Delhi to explain this loss. Local party leaders allege Dr Kumar's victory came on the back of support from Naxals, who dominate the district, like many other parts of Jharkhand.

"As a former cop, it was totally unethical for him to have telephone conversations with Naxals and seek their support," said Dineshanand Goswami, President, Jharkhand BJP.

Like in many cases, it's hard to make out the truth when politics mixes with anything.

[somnath]

Ajai Sahni on the dangers of Telengana movement, in terms of reviving naxalism..

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?277672

There is a grave and imminent danger of a Maoist revival in the Telangana region if a separate State is created there. Indeed, the increasing chaos of the Telangana agitation has already created new spaces for Maoist revival and consolidation, though the operation of armed cadres is still being effectively contained by the Police.

And an interesting study on the socio-economic profile of Maoists in C'garh...Based on Interrogation reports...
http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?277653

Nothing new, sort of supports the hypothesis that poverty and illiteracy drives a lot of guys into the arms of the AMosist..

But Ajit Doval makes an interesting point..

We need to gather more data to correlate it with the levels of violence that these cadres are said to have committed,” he says. According to him, it would be interesting to see if the levels of poverty, abysmal education and development have a correlation to greater violence and therefore can be used to nuance the current government approach in dealing with Maoists.

[Hari Seldon]

From twitter @ smithaprakash

http://bit.ly/rmIwZr Video report: Maoists kill SPO's mother and hang his father, who barely manages to survive. Graphic visuals.

The endgame begins. There'll be cold blooded murder and mayhem now. THe newly disarmed SPOs will be selectively targeted for murder and tirture and will have no means to fight back. None. The state might as well sign away half of Chattisgarh now.

[Pratyush]

I am sure that it is all part of the plan of the great leader....

can some one tell me about the human rights of the Mother and father of the SPO, what was their crime. Or they had becoem class enemy because their son had become a SPO for a princely sum of Rs 2500/ month.

[chetak]

From twitter @ smithaprakash

http://bit.ly/rmIwZr Video report: Maoists kill SPO's mother and hang his father, who barely manages to survive. Graphic visuals.

The endgame begins. There'll be cold blooded murder and mayhem now. THe newly disarmed SPOs will be selectively targeted for murder and tirture and will have no means to fight back. None. The state might as well sign away half of Chattisgarh now.

Which was the very exact purpose of the ill thought out and uncalled for judgement so that such a force will never rise again to upset ideological apple carts.

More deaths of such soft targets will swiftly follow to reinforce the point.

[Sanku]

From twitter @ smithaprakash

http://bit.ly/rmIwZr Video report: Maoists kill SPO's mother and hang his father, who barely manages to survive. Graphic visuals.

The endgame begins. There'll be cold blooded murder and mayhem now. THe newly disarmed SPOs will be selectively targeted for murder and tirture and will have no means to fight back. None. The state might as well sign away half of Chattisgarh now.

Superlative, this is the way to have the nation work

http://www.indianexpress.com/video/nati ... cgarh/5564

Using batons, the Maoists bashed Mukesh Kaved's mother Punki Bai Kaved to death while the father Rup Ji Kaved, was hanged on a tree but somehow survived the ordeal.

[uddu]

Now should the court take responsibility for the death of two poor tribals. Why the court removed the protection that they had and let them die under Maoist muscle power. Who need to take responsibility and who need to be punished? Where are the pesudo secular crowd, who was so opposed to Salwa Judum? Where are the Media that wrote and bad mouthed Salwa Judum and called for it's disbanding? Where are all these traitors hiding now? May be enjoying the death of poor old tribals. If there is a correct use of term for Harami, then it's here, no were else.

[Aditya_V]

Yes, Authority and Responsibility go together, some people take decesions for which there is no responsibility whatsoever, the more I read about this conflict, the more one gets the sense that People affliated to Foreign Universities, Foreign NGO's and having acess to the relevatn Powers in Lutyens are deeply involved in this conflict.

[chetak]

Yes, Authority and Responsibility go together, some people take decesions for which there is no responsibility whatsoever, the more I read about this conflict, the more one gets the sense that People affliated to Foreign Universities, Foreign NGO's and having acess to the relevatn Powers in Lutyens are deeply involved in this conflict.

Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me twice, shame on me!!!

Will we never learn??

The larger of the forces behind the naxalites are roman in origin onlee.

[brihaspati]

The courts and the media and their p-sec friends have actually thought it out well. Think carefully of their logic ; It is the SJ which marks out "tribals" as targets by the Maoists. Therefore Maoists will attack more of the SJ as part of this entire movement - which converges the interests of NGO's, Kongshaal, "civil-society-tears for-people's-liberty" groups, and those whose opinions are reflected in the not-a-single-condemnation-of Maoists judgments produced by sublime brains to who all must look up to.

Such attacks actually help to buttress the judgment and the sublimity of the judges. Proves how "prescient" they were. So those attacks will increase.

On the other hand, these attacks prove that Maoists cannot win over politically everyone from even among the "class" they claim to fight for. Moreover when the Maoists fail to win someone over politically they resort to physical coercion and psychological sadism aimed at intimidating and torturing the intended victim by torturing his/her loved ones. This tactic is typically Kongshaal, mullah and the older Brit-Kong forms of police.

The Kongshaal tactics changed drastically in the post 77 days, and when they re-emerged they have shown a curious element of official police techniques as well as a certain Kongrez-mullah touch in the methods of intimidation they employ. It would be worthwhile to explore whether the current crop in its core are at all "Maoists" in any way - or basically police implants, and Kongrez-mullah stooges. They are no longer going against Kongrez politicians, EJ leaders or any of the mullahs. Their operational style appears to be not to hurt Kongrez, EJ or mullah interests, and often they take steps that help one or moe of these three. Simultaneously we have seen a reduction in the vitriol aimed at them from the rashtra side - with sublime portions of the rashtra increasingly taking it upon themselves to justify the "Maoist" actions on ideological terms.

So all it does is it shows the Maoists as a beyond-the-radar wing of the regime and the rashtra to be used for political and internal coercion purposes in ways that cannot be pinned down on the "rashtra". Sooner or later it helps to clarify the character of the current rashtra in the eyes of the "people".

[somnath]

Now should the court take responsibility for the death of two poor tribals. Why the court removed the protection that they had and let them die under Maoist muscle power. Who need to take responsibility and who need to be punished? Where are the pesudo secular crowd, who was so opposed to Salwa Judum? Where are the Media that wrote and bad mouthed Salwa Judum and called for it's disbanding? Where are all these traitors hiding now? May be enjoying the death of poor old tribals. If there is a correct use of term for Harami, then it's here, no were else.

In fact the court mentioned a scenario that is precisely what happened to the poor SPO's parents, in its orders..

In an insurgency scenario, the underground targeting family members of the police/law enforcement is hardly new...There was a phase in Punjab when it happened in a widespread fashion...It was tackled through a mix of different measures...

For forces operating in insurgency areas, there are various ways of "safeguarding" family...In Punjab, close families were often relocated outside their home districts...In some cases, the local police adopted a "hostage for hostage" strategy, ie, if any family member of a policeman was touched, the family of the local insurgent would get into "trouble"...Above all, in villages and districts across India, there is a certain amount of "fear" for the uniform, and the families are largely left untouched...Which is why we havent had too many cases of families of even JAK LI soldiers, or JK police being molested...

No such infrastructure/"social izzat" is available to the SJ/Koya commando - they are "identified" as an "enemy" by the Maoists, and dont have access to any of the "protection" that a proper uniformed soldier has access to...

[prahaar]

So all it does is it shows the Maoists as a beyond-the-radar wing of the regime and the rashtra to be used for political and internal coercion purposes in ways that cannot be pinned down on the "rashtra". Sooner or later it helps to clarify the character of the current rashtra in the eyes of the "people".

Bji, although your complete post is worth quoting, I decided to quote the most dangerous part. If you can, please put some light on the duration it is expected to take for "clarify the character of the current rashtra", also on the likely geographical spread? My understanding is that this compromising of rashtriya machinery is not uniform across the current Bharat.

Also, can you please, post your views about "THE DAY AFTER" the above scenario occurs (in Strategic scenarios thread)? Or is it so that such things are already occuring in some parts? I understand that my questions might sound like spoon-feeding request, but if I get the gist of your post, it means inevitable upheaval and tragedy in medium-to-long-term (5-20 years).

I hope this post is not too OT.

[Rudradev]

Far be it from me to flog a dead horse. However, it seems Mainovadi apologists are shameless enough to try to "ride" that dead horse yet again... and worse still, to pass off their own dung as having fallen from the horse's rectum.

This article has been cited to prove the usual nonsense about how Chhatisgarh is apparently "failing to utilize Central funds" to improve its counter-insurgency efforts. That bogus allegation, apparently, is supposed to prove that Chhatisgarh is using the SPOs/SJ to fight against the Maoists "on the cheap." Circularly enough, by the same apologist's assertion,

the entire SJ/SPO stuff was funded by the Centre!

So who exactly is supposed to be "fighting on the cheap" here?

Anyway, getting back to the article:

http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/po ... 92992.html

The article does not relate to *all* Central funding, please note, but a specific non-refundable grant for modernization that had not been utilized as of March 31, 2011. Furthermore: it had not been utilized by 85% of the states to whom it had been offered; so Chhatisgarh is hardly alone in that. Why was it not utilized? Were there problems in implementation, or policy strings attached? Was it simply because this is a non-refundable grant, and so states were prioritizing the utilization of other grants, of which the unused portion had to be paid back by a certain date?

There are not enough "data" in the article to make any conclusions, certainly not about Chhatisgarh specifically among 16 other states that did not use the grant: this, however, has not stopped the Elite-Iskool "data" worshipper from reaching desperately for a politically motivated conclusion. As usual.

What the "data" provided in that same article DO make obvious, is the priorities of the Congress GOI in allocating police modernization funding to a number of different states. These data only confirm what I've said before:

It's worth noting that Chhatisgarh (facing "the greatest threat to India's internal security" per MMS) has been allotted a paltry Rs. 42 crore. As compared to Haryana, a state with no significant law-and-order issues, that has been allotted Rs.100 crores! Other states affected by Maoism are getting 223 crores (Maharashtra), 206 crores (Bihar), 180 crores (MP), 113 crores (AP)... but Chhatisgarh must make do with a mere 42 crores according to this allocation of Central funds for "police modernization"!

For your further amusement, it seems that one Dr. Ajai Sahni is being repeatedly cited here as a "security expert" on par with KPS Gill or EN Rammohan... evidently, in an attempt to lend credence to his opinions against Salwa Judum and the Chhatisgarh SPOs. While no one faults the good Dr. Sahni for the contributions he may have made towards the informative South Asia Terrorism Portal website... it is worth noting that his experience of "security" doesn't extend to having written a single traffic violation.

No, Dr. Ajai Sahni derives his qualifications of expertise from... wait for it... Delhi University.

Really, follow some of the links on this page to read his articles. You will gain a very good idea of where this "security expert" is coming from, in terms of his political motivations. http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/icm/Profi ... ector.html

Meanwhile, the predictable non-arguments continue to spiral down the bandwidth drain under the force of their own circularity. An incident where Maoists assaulted and murdered the parents of an SPO (AFTER a Supreme Court ruling that effectively disarmed and defanged the SPOs), is cited as evidence that having SPOs leads to the victimization of innocents! To bolster this specious assertion, it is stated that the problem derives from SPOs not having the "social izzat" of "wearing a uniform!" But yet, in the same post, one is reminded that the family members of Punjab police (who did not wear uniforms, perhaps?) were targeted by Khalistan insurgents!

It's very entertaining to see how much intellectual dishonesty some will invest in concealing their own ideological bankruptcy.

[Rudradev]

Rudradev ji,
a long time ago we had talked of the reds being brought over to the right. The time for that could be approaching. There are possibilities from what I keep a tab on. Maybe we can discuss elsewhere?

Brihaspati ji, would be very interesting to hear what possibilities have come to mind!

In relation to this, and a good suggestion by kmkrao ji in his post:

SC called it illegal, but Bihar Police is recruiting villagers

How about changing the name of SPO like, Congress Muthi Vahini, but also train them to provide extra social responsibilities like Anganwadi, village record keeping like that.

I'd like to hark back to a discussion we had, more than a year and a half ago on the Strategic Scenario thread.

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 74#p601574

The "left" will continue to undermine any security-based solution to the military component of Maoist insurgency... as they have with Chhatisgarh SPOs and Salwa Judum. At the same time, they will insist with spurious vehemence that the problem demands a "political soluton" onlee.

What political solution do they, themselves offer? If you ask them, they will proffer the usual Marxist blather about income inequality, even as their own political masters fatten their foreign bank accounts with the hard-earned money of Indian citizens.

This barefaced hypocrisy masks a simple reality: that the Mainovadis and their "left" allies have no interest at all in a genuine political solution. They pretend to support one, in their campaign against any and all workable security-based solutions; but in fact, they have no intention of seeing the Maoist problem solved.

Of course, this is because they honestly don't see Maoism as a "problem" at all... just like illiteracy, underdevelopment, constitutional loopholes, "residual" powers, and every other haemorrhaging dysfunction that allows the indefinite perpetuation of the Maino dynasty's personal enrichment and political power. It is just another tool for them to exploit the people of India with.

The only political solution to the Maoist problem is to wrest that tool from the hands of these traitors, and redefine its purpose in ways that will actually benefit the country. In this process, those ideologies which the Mainovadi apologists hysterically malign as "antediluvian" and "anachronistic" will play a pivotal role.

The "Red" ideology is a red-herring that can be employed to mask criminal endeavour and political machinations in the garb of "social justice." It is that other ideology which retains the capacity to snatch these ill-gotten gains away from the queen and her hive of parasites, and return them to the people.

As time goes by, and the fabricated "growth story" wears thinner every day... more of our fellow citizens will come to understand what the real "political solution" is.

[brihaspati]

Rudradev ji,
this may not appropriate for this thread very much, so I will just give a brief outline and try to expand elsewhere.

The historical process in India - GV and coastal south - have continuously experienced two opposing forces struggling to assert themselves. One is the extended trade network - the other the local producers. The trade networks get extended further out of the subcontinent and finds selling the producers's efforts valuable to make a profit from ever-increasing trade networks. This makes the leaders of such networks part of a diffuse and extended system that uses India as a profitable source and a conduit of financial flows - and automatically compromising and adapt to ideological/political changes taking place in the far nodes of the system. This ultimately makes them abandon any core ideology and develop the "mercantile mentality" as a substitute to guide actions.

But pure profitability, accumulation of financial capital comes often at the cost of the local producers, and pushing for foreign interests as "national" ones, so it generates a local resistance. Elite individuals or factions who feel disempowered to "act" may then find such resistance useful and provide the ideological framework to coopt the resistance into a framework which will undermine the power of the existing regime.

Over time, if the resistance has genuine basis and force behind it, gains power - and the "mercantile mentality" networks compromises and adopts. In the process they give their own spin on the resistance - so that it ultimately turns around in the opposite direction - and serves the same "mercantiles".

I can show this feature of the dual struggle always getting captured and turned around starting from within the Vedic, manifesting in Buddhism, or adoption of Islam and Christianity, and "Marxism". There is also an angle to who comes to lead initial radicalism, and what form it takes philosophically, and how it changes around.

The main point relevant for our discussion is that this dual-struggle is what has to be retrieved and identified. We need to show that the struggle was there before the Marxists came along, but that all the standard propaganda about "pro-repressed" movements and their leaders being pro-"resistance" is a lie. These leaders including the Buddhists or "peaceful-sufis" or kind "Father Long"'s and the communist messiahs - were never really "fighting" on behalf of the resistance, but one way or the other - serving their own personal fights over recognition and power. Moreover their organizations always turned in favour of imperialism after some time because of the extended nature of their networks going beyond the boundaries of the "local".

Thus the existing "Maoists" or "communists" fit in this pattern too, and why cannot the "to-be-reds" think of "Marxism with Indian characteristics" [Mao called for "Marxism with Chinese characteristics"], based on an identification with the ancient struggle on the subcontinent.

For more perhaps we need to move to GDF.

[Rudradev]

Thus the existing "Maoists" or "communists" fit in this pattern too, and why cannot the "to-be-reds" think of "Marxism with Indian characteristics" [Mao called for "Marxism with Chinese characteristics"], based on an identification with the ancient struggle on the subcontinent.

For more perhaps we need to move to GDF.

B-ji,

I see what you mean.