You think the IAF should task a pilot to fly a turbo prop into an environment characterised by hostile F-7 (PAF/PLAAF) / F-16 (PAF) / Su-30 (PLAAF) / SAM cover? You're not at all serious, right?Philip wrote:This is one area where the IAF should seriously study,using turbo-prop aircraft for CAS.Since the Pilatus has been selected for the large basic trainer req.,it shoul also study an armed version for CAS too.
Storm Shadow / SCALPPhilip wrote:Here,an SU-30MKI armed with a 300km stand-of missile like Brahmos, easily has the advantage over either the Typhoon or Rafale when attacking high-value heavily defended targets.In addition,we have in service several Russian supersonic shortter-range ASMs,of the KH series.What equivalent missiles will be forthcoming with either Rafale or the EF?
It is rare for two serving Air Force chiefs to concur, but in an appraisal of the Eurofighter Typhoon, one of the two contenders for a multi-billion dollar Indian Air Force tender, they unanimously voted it as very reliable as seen in the operations against Libya.
But they couldn't guarantee if the plane would be economical to maintain over the long run. This is a key requirement for the IAF as it sets about selecting the vendor for a 126 fighter aircraft tender.
Taking time off to meet Indian journalists at the International Military Air Show here, Chief of Staff of the Royal Air Force Stephen Dalton found that the Typhoon, over the years, had developed to the point of delivering more hours per airframe than “we could imagine.”
From 22 to 24 hours per month, the last three months have seen the numbers go up to 80 hours. “It is more reliable. But these are still early days. I won't say we have sorted out all the issues. We have to get right some of them. At the same time we are very happy with it from the point of view of availability,” Sir Dalton observed.
“It has a long way to go. I don't know about total life cycle costs, but I know that its availability and performance has been outstanding,” he added.
German Air Force chief Aarne Kreuzinger-Janik, more taciturn and less given to turns of phrases, fully supported his British counterpart's analysis about the plane's reliable all-weather multi-role platform architecture.
“We can build on it for the future operational availability. It is more than we expected. But it still in the beginning phase. Six years of service does not allow you to see 30 years ahead,” he concurred.
Asked whether the financial crises would stymie plans to induct more Typhoons, both air chiefs said in future this fighter would form the backbone of their air forces. In other words, more and more Typhoons would continue to be inducted in Germany and Britain regardless of the fiscal soup in which Europe finds itself in today.
They also touched on the other point under intense discussion in the Indian strategic community — induction of futuristic technologies — with one section claiming that the type of radar sought by the IAF is unlikely to be provided soon. Sir Dalton replied by pointing out that as a military man, he would have liked those capacities “yesterday.” He proclaimed himself satisfied by the “reasonably proven” capability of the fighter aircraft and hoped there would be a balance between capability and aircraft availability.
As both air chiefs professed their preference for fewer types of aircraft in their fleet, they were asked if the Indian government should not opt for the French Rafale because the IAF already has its maker Dassault's Mirage-2000 in its inventory. Sir Dalton said: “It is a matter of judgement for the IAF and the Indian government.” He went on to add that technology has moved on at a real pace. So there could be no direct comparison between a 15-20 year old technology based aircraft (Mirage) whose avionics and software would be very different from a new offering. General Kreuzinger-Janik, who will be hosting the next IAF chief in August, agreed.
Including some of the guys in Lederhosen and a woman in a Drindl!Juggi G wrote:The Über German Eurofighter At Tactical Leadership Programme In Albacete, Spain
aiyoooo rehem karo malik rehem...this brown SDRE will stand out like a raisin in a milky barvina wrote:Including some of the guys in Lederhosen and a woman in a Drindl!Juggi G wrote:The Über German Eurofighter At Tactical Leadership Programme In Albacete, Spain
Andy Mullah and his Frau ja ?
IIRC its the apu exhaust that leaves that blemish...SaiK wrote:On the pic, what is that black soot?
Singha wrote:>> Sending in a very expensive MMRCA for a CAS op exposing it to heavy anti-air fire at low alt. would be extremely risky.
but wouldnt sending in a slower turboprop of the super-tucano variety be even more risky? - easier for AAA/manpad seekers to track. and unlike the MRCA its payload will be 20% in comparison. sure it will be cheap, but the pilots life is the dearest thing, not the airframe cost.
Nothing more than screw driver turning technology will come out of it. Transfer-of-technology is the biggest marketing con word to have been invented in the 20th century.They are committing themselves to transfer unprecedented level of sensitive technology and expertise not just in manufacturing, but also in design, development, and engineering, which are crucial to sustaining a self-reliant defence industry, a major focus of the Indian defence ministry.
kind of agree with you Sir.. earlier we did not have the moollah.. and chances of corruption was less per deal..since there were hardly any deal.. now with swelling forex it almost seems like a crazy run to the bank and get as much kickback as possible before the money monsoon ends and draught begins again... so many RFPs ..so many deals signing... heads start spinning looking at the amount being spent...where is a proper audit.. most the CAG audits are done a decade after the deal materialization by that time most of the dirty money would have turned into gold ingots... and resting close to Alps.. we actually desperate money for falling police infrastructure.. increase their salary, buy more advance weapon.... get some copters for the police force... .... standardize police network across states.. our internal security is falling apart and we keep on buying expensive gizmos...--Neshant wrote:Nothing more than screw driver turning technology will come out of it. Transfer-of-technology is the biggest marketing con word to have been invented in the 20th century.They are committing themselves to transfer unprecedented level of sensitive technology and expertise not just in manufacturing, but also in design, development, and engineering, which are crucial to sustaining a self-reliant defence industry, a major focus of the Indian defence ministry.
Plus the europeans are rather untrustworthy having short changed and double crossed countries like Libya. What they say now and the actual story that emerges later will have a night & day difference.
May as well focus on performance & lowest lifecycle cost and select a plane accordingly. Its sad enough that we seem to be buy an awful lot of foreign stuff while producing almost nothing of our own. We are just subsidizing foreign scientific & technical R&D at our own expense.
Neshant wrote:Nothing more than screw driver turning technology will come out of it. Transfer-of-technology is the biggest marketing con word to have been invented in the 20th century.
Let us offload all CAS work to Pinakas, Smecrh, Prahar and may be Prithvi. Why risk Indian blood for this dangerous risky work ?Singha wrote:>> Sending in a very expensive MMRCA for a CAS op exposing it to heavy anti-air fire at low alt. would be extremely risky.
but wouldnt sending in a slower turboprop of the super-tucano variety be even more risky? - easier for AAA/manpad seekers to track. and unlike the MRCA its payload will be 20% in comparison. sure it will be cheap, but the pilots life is the dearest thing, not the airframe cost.
impressive. Seems like it went to up to 5+ Gs during the turns, which is in line with what the Rafale can pull when it is fully loaded as well.mallikarjun wrote:Typhoon rehearsing with full wepon load for RIAT2011 full length video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ENnEQkh ... re=related
100% correct. That's why flying lo is a no-no. To neutralise enemy ground forces formation, use a weapon like this:Philip wrote:Sending in a very expensive MMRCA for a CAS op exposing it to heavy anti-air fire at low alt. would be extremely risky
You brought out an excellent point in a very lucid manner, this is what Rafale lovers have been screaming for months and EF lovers have been defending to the hilt... the latest defence is the Emergency landing of Rafales in Malta.Nihat wrote:Only thing that bothers me about EF is that in the Libya Ops. , the EF only seemed to go in when the sky was 100% sanitized. The initial strike was lead by US cruise missiles in SEAD/ DEAD role and a combo of Tornado + Rafale in the anti-tank role. IF the EF so incapable of A2G Ops. , even in the most low risk theaters like Libya.
The Indian Air Force (IAF) brass apparently bent over backwards to brief senior Lockheed and Boeing representatives last week on why their aircraft were eliminated even though there was no requirement to do so.
The betting is that Hillary Clinton may seek redress and push the case for the Lockheed built fifth generation super stealth F-35 Lightning. Lockheed representatives told journalists the Indian Navy had shown interest and both the navy and the Air Force were demonstrated its capabilities in a simulator.
Thats 2 missiles internally when carrying 2 1000 lb bombs, in pure air to air it can probaly carry 4 or 6 A to A internally, it can carry more in its external Hardpoints.eklavya wrote:Talking about F-35:
http://www.economist.com/node/18958487
"The plane is expected to come into service six years late (in 2016) and wildly over-budget. The Pentagon still plans to buy 2,443 F-35s over the next 25 years, at a cost of $382 billion. But in a parting shot, Mr Gates gave warning that although he did not think the F-35 faced cancellation, “the size of the buy” might have to be cut."
India cannot wait until 2016 for MMRCA. F-35 might be an option if FGFA does not meet specs.
Also see:
http://www.economist.com/node/18958367? ... d=18958367
"And to be as stealthy as it is, the F-35 can carry only two air-to-air missiles. The head of the air dominance branch of the Air Combat Command says he “wakes up in a cold sweat” thinking about it."
Two missiles! Thats not many is it!
just like how the typhoon are on being ready for strike missions. at least they say indirectly they are getting ready.koti wrote:What worries me is that the Dassault PR has been so far mum on these so called emergency landings.
Khan wants Desh to underwrite some of this cost inflation by buying into this program. It is too little, too late. It would have been a completely different ball-game if they had offere F-35 for the MMRCA. what surprises me is this story reappearing periodically, even after MOD denying even considering the JSF.Singha wrote:>> The Pentagon still plans to buy 2,443 F-35s over the next 25 years, at a cost of $382 billion
the number 2443 looks unrealistic to me. probably 1200 among the usaf+usn+usmc and thats it. 700 for usaf (replace all the f16 and f15), 300 for usn and 200 for usmc.
will drive up the unit cost ofcourse.
Boeing, Lockheed Martin, SD, MOD all seem to accept the decision but still lifafas keep this issue alive by planted articles like this. Shook-law was batting majorly for the JSF when it was years away from being available.Lalmohan wrote:the F35 story could be an LM lifafa plant, previous declarations from the state department accepted the decision
"While France is a relatively easier partner, any expectations that it will transfer non-proliferation nuclear technology is misplaced. They will never expose themselves to international criticism," Mr Sibal said.
According to Mr Mohanty, if the Rafale does get selected by Indian government and the IAF, it will be the biggest test of French abilities with regard to the transfer of critical technologies.
Indeed, when it comes to air-to-air combat, he says the F3 takes the place of the Mirage 2000 RDI and Mirage 2000-5. For deterrence it replaces the Mirage 2000N. In air-to-ground attack it replaces the SEM, Mirage 2000D and Mirage F1 CT, and for reconnaissance the Mirage F1 CR.
"Two Rafales are equivalent to two Mirage 2000-5 fighters and four Mirage 2000D aircraft with respect to payload," says a senior Rafale pilot.
With one trigger pull of the AASM you can hit six targets simultaneously, in all weather and day or night.
Apart from that...which is a "drool factor" indeed, one needs to read the entire article. I did not post it in full, due to "fair use" rules. One will be in awe of Katrina! Oooh...the capability!!!!Avid wrote:^^^ Drool factor: one trigger pull launching six AAM
As India prepares to open the commercial bids for the USD 10.8 billion tender for 126 medium range multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA), Eurofighter hopes to make the country a partner in its Typhoon fighter jet programme which it says would be a game-changer.
"We are offering India to become a full participant in the programme�.. fully or partially whatever India chooses to do...get involved in future developments. Combat aircraft programme never stops. It will operate over decades," said Peter Maute, Senior Vice-President of Cassidian Air Systems, the security and defence company of the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS). Quoting an independent study, Maute said choosing Eurofighter Typhoon would create more than 20,000 high skilled jobs in India.
The European consortium hopes that the offer to make India a full industrial participant in the Eurofighter Typhoon programme would be a game-changer. According to Eurofighter officials, 280 Typhoons have already been delivered out of the 707 aircraft on contract to Germany, Italy, Spain, the UK, Austria and Saudi Arabia. Asked if Eurofighter is willing to "give away" its unique selling propositions, source codes of radars and design for the "sake of 126 units", The consortium said it would not be an issue if India becomes a partner of the Eurofighter programme.