J&K News and Discussion-2011

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 22 Jul 2011 19:31

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/fai-s ... r/820798/0

Janata Party president Subramanian Swamy, who attended one of Fai’s conferences, said: “I said what I wanted to say, which is that Kashmir is a part of India and we are not going to part with it but we need not go to war about it” he said.

What do u have to say now, Dr. Swamy

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 22 Jul 2011 19:51

muraliravi - Check Offtopic thread on GD.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 22 Jul 2011 20:17

http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2 ... irsmandela

Waiting for Kashmir's Mandela... a potent brew being concocted. The search for the 2012 Nobel Peace Prize...

It is now about time for parliamentarians and others who nominate candidates, and for the committee that picks one, to start the process of finding a 2012 laureate. The most basic criteria are these: that some long-running and nasty conflict needs attending to; and that some worthy individual or institution deserves recognition for trying to put things right.

Having just spent some days in Kashmir, in the part of the territory run by India, I am struck that—as far as I am aware—there has never been serious consideration of dishing out a prize for anyone trying to solve the troubles there. No one should doubt that Kashmir suffers grim problems, of two broad sorts. First is the disputed status of the territory.

Given the long-running trouble in Kashmir why has the Nobel committee paid it no serious attention? Some in China might suspect that a Western institution gives democratic India a softer ride than it does China. Or perhaps the committee is distracted by regular elections, lively newspapers and other elements of democracy, and so doubts that Kashmir’s problems are really serious.

Neither answer is satisfactory. Instead, the answer may be a lack of an appealing candidate as potential laureate. Among politicians on the subcontinent it is possible to imagine that Manmohan Singh, India’s prime minister, and maybe even his counterpart in Pakistan, President Asif Zardari, being recognised for trying to promote peace between their countries. On July 27th, for example, their foreign ministers will meet in Delhi. But this process has achieved little yet, and in any case the two leaders are trying hard to keep Kashmir’s status out of discussions, since it is so tricky to address.

Inside Kashmir itself there are various worthy NGOs and activists, some helped by foreign donors, who promote useful things like youth employment, education, care for the environment and the like. But these hardly add up to a big push for peace. As for the UN, it has a presence, but does almost nothing.

Nor, among local politicians and the jailed activists, is there any local Nelson Mandela: an individual who stands out for making prolonged personal sacrifices in the search for a peaceful end to conflict and for better treatment of ordinary people. Many Kashmiri politicians are seen as opportunists who at times supported either militancy or repression. The most notable, outspoken political leader today is the ageing Islamist separatist, Syed Geelani, who remains popular because he has kept his position unchanged for decades. But Mr Geelani, who wants Kashmir to be part of Pakistan, hardly seems peace-loving and is regularly blamed for encouraging bloodshed in the territory. Put another way, his consistency is also evidence of immense stubbornness, a refusal to consider any sort of compromise, reconciliation or forgiveness in the search for peace.

Perhaps likelier candidates exist among more restrained separatists. The current Mirwaiz, spiritual leader of Kashmir’s Sunni Muslims, Umar Farooq, was accused by police last year of inciting violence, though he denied it and is generally reckoned to be a moderate. That is the more remarkable since his father, the Mirwaiz before him, was assassinated probably by hardline separatists for holding his own temperate views. Similarly Sajjad Lone, whose moderate father was murdered in similar fashion, counts as a separatist who has put forward sensible ideas about sharing power in which a united Kashmir would enjoy “soft” borders with both Pakistan and India. Yasin Malik, who leads a part of the Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front, a former commando group which renounced violence in 1994, could be another candidate. But these separatist figures have been eclipsed by prominent Mr Geelani. Among those acceptable to India is the most prominent woman politician in Kashmir, Mehbooba Mufti Sayeed, president of an opposition party. However it is not clear on what basis she would lay claim to a peace prize, though her father, Mufti Mohammad Sayeed, as chief minister from 2002 to 2005 became well-liked for his efforts at reconciliation.

The result—unless there is a strong candidate whom I have overlooked, and if so, please make a suggestion below—is that the Nobel committee will ignore Kashmir again, sparing India’s authorities the sort of blushes that China suffered last year. One day, however, India will surely be the centre of attention for the Nobel committee, which famously failed to dish out a prize to Mahatma Gandhi, perhaps its biggest oversight yet. Mother Teresa, an Albanian who became an Indian citizen, did get a Nobel peace prize in 1979 for her humanitarian work among the poor, but beyond that, this massive country seems woefully neglected.

krithivas · Post by **krithivas** » 22 Jul 2011 23:46

The Fundamentalist Christian Science Monitor has an *interesting* view:
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Sou ... Washington

Mr. Fai’s arrest is unlikely to have much impact on the Kashmiri struggle for independence from India. Young people protesting through street demonstrations, Facebook, and pop culture are providing the movement’s momentum now, not the kind of foreign lobbying work done by Fai.

Fai belongs to an older generation of Kashmiri activists who are deeply enmeshed in the power politics of the region. Such elders are respected but not necessarily followed by young Kashmiris, whose tactics have actually forced India and the outside world to take a second look at the decades-old dispute.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 23 Jul 2011 01:10

CSM/ Economist rags and many others like them have to come out to give comfort and aid to our enemies and their Chamchas. Good time and way to find out about the nature of fire under Sunni Kashmiri terrorist' boil.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 23 Jul 2011 11:22

Fortunately the time for such rags (& I will add local publications like "Kashmir Times" of Ved Bhasin to this list) is fast passing away. The internet has opened so many avenues of counter PoV. all on has to do is to go thru the comments section rather than the crappy articles such magazines publish.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 23 Jul 2011 11:25

The sheer propaganda that Economist/CSM put out is mind boggling. How these media f**ks advance western interests. Its a lesson for DDM who take all these western-scripted notions of "free press" etc seriosuly. Note that in neither of the narratives, is there any criticism of hard core kufir hating Islamists wanting secession based on their religion. I mean if the same Kashmiris, who they so fondly speak of, were to demand anything irredentist from the Christian west, you can be rest asssured that phrases like "Isalmic extermism", "Islamic fundamentalism" would be tossed out at will. But somehow, in India's case, the same extremists demaning secession at gun point, sponsored by a terrorisdt state, is somehow respectable, and India trying to preserve its secular fabric is the villain.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 23 Jul 2011 11:41

CRamS, Why blame western sources when some of our own elite are more than willing to grant respectability to the terrorist scum. GoI is willing to send interlocutors to talk to terrorists, some of them get drafted in NAC, few of them are provided state care at our expense while the defenders of the nation struggle to get Rs. 4000 reimbursed by the govt.
We need to define our own narrative and hammer it across the globe. Till then keep taking anti-anxiety pills.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 23 Jul 2011 22:53

CRamS wrote:The sheer propaganda that Economist/CSM put out is mind boggling. How these media f**ks advance western interests. Its a lesson for DDM who take all these western-scripted notions of "free press" etc seriosuly. Note that in neither of the narratives, is there any criticism of hard core kufir hating Islamists wanting secession based on their religion. I mean if the same Kashmiris, who they so fondly speak of, were to demand anything irredentist from the Christian west, you can be rest asssured that phrases like "Isalmic extermism", "Islamic fundamentalism" would be tossed out at will. But somehow, in India's case, the same extremists demaning secession at gun point, sponsored by a terrorisdt state, is somehow respectable, and India trying to preserve its secular fabric is the villain.

This is a fake struggle and now the the Kashmir problem is a different problem since the Pakistan of 1947 does not exist.

There is fear in the western interest that this will go away just like the Khalistan problem. The numbers dont support the kashmir issue and Indian hold and Indian Hindu interest in Kashmir and Azad kashmir is more than what they can handle.

Now is the time for the Indians to push for Indian hindu interest in Kashmir and inside Pakistan. This is very much required or else the western narrators will start looking it as Muslim land and muslim interest.

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 24 Jul 2011 00:15

CRamS wrote:The sheer propaganda that Economist/CSM put out is mind boggling. How these media f**ks advance western interests. Its a lesson for DDM

CRS, The Fai incident shows DDM can be purchased using paltry sums of money. Taking a step back, most of the DDM are 40% SSC mark holders and or brainwashed marxists. Up to early 90's a visit to the west/US was considered a badge of honor for even highly qualified scientists. For the DDM types they could never imagine visting/touring US on their own money and not to forget that India was generally poor then. I have personally seen one famous Delhi journalist putting down India aggressively in an University here.
The more you think of the FAI incident, we realise how phu$$ed up the Indian "intellectuals" are. Arun Shourie gives some glimpses of these worthies in "Eminent historians" book.
In short, I believe unless nationalists pay more money/ Bang-kok trips to these worthies than anti nationals, this scenario will continue.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 24 Jul 2011 01:17

I was moved when I heard a K Pandit activist on Arnab show mention that its amusing to see all the WKKs and other traitors who were sucking up to Fai/ISI and seling off India running for cover now, but he said he alerted anyone who would listen in Delhi about Fai's ISI connections, but the same filth would accuse him of being "communal". As we on BR have long figured out, these assorted scum that includes WKKs, pseudo seculars, RNIs etc are useful idiots to the Pakis & west. If these scum bags had any credibility, they would have continued to embrace Fai despite US crack down. But no, the moment whites comes down hard, they run for cover, but any Indian saying the same thing, its communal.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 24 Jul 2011 01:24

By calling right words about these worthies on BR, the forum gor branded as Hindutva forum. There are voices on this forum to be moderate for image correction. Ironic.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 24 Jul 2011 01:38

Junketing on the ISI money

By Kanchan Gupta

Mocking at the West’s Left-liberal intelligentsia, many of whose leading members had returned from all-expenses paid trips to the Soviet Union to pay glowing tributes to its dictator and his police state, Stalin is believed to have once said, “They are useful idiots, but idiots nonetheless.” Chroniclers of the Stalin era dispute this attribution, insisting it was Lenin who scathingly referred to “useful idiots” in the capitalist West who “will sell us the rope with which to hang them”. Scholars of Lenin’s vast body of articles, speeches and pamphlets, as well as commentary recorded in party papers, deny he ever said this. Despite its disputed origin, the phrase “useful idiots”, used for describing apologists of the USSR till the Soviet Empire collapsed and passed into history, has survived. Today it is used for describing Left-liberal intellectuals who wittingly or unwittingly become propagandists for dubious and disreputable causes.

It was almost close to midnight when news broke of the FBI arresting Ghulam Nabi Fai, executive director of the Washington-based Kashmiri American Council, for acting as a front of the ISI, the Pakistani spy agency which unabashedly sponsors global jihad, for close to two decades. His colleague, Zaheer Ahmad, managed to give the FBI the slip; he is reported to be in Pakistan at the moment. By itself, the news was worth little, apart from the fact that the famed FBI had remained in the dark for so many years about the real identity and intention of a Pakistani spy who had easy access to offices of Senators and Representatives on the Capitol Hill and lobbied to influence US policy on the issue of Jammu & Kashmir. Or, conversely, it is only now, with relations between the US and Pakistan rapidly unravelling and the CIA at war with the ISI, that the Americans have thought it fit to expose someone about whom they had known all along. After all, various US agencies were aware of the ISI’s links with Daood Syed Gilani, also known as David Coleman Headley who too, like Fai, is an American citizen of Pakistani origin.

But there’s more to the Kashmiri American Council story than the Lashkar-e-Tayyeba’s Chicago cell and its activities which makes it far more sinister. Headley facilitated the multiple strikes by Pakistani terrorists on high profile targets in Mumbai on November 26, 2008, resulting in a ghastly carnage and terrible loss of human lives. But what Fai and his associates, as well as those who sponsored his activities in the US, are guilty of has wider ramifications and greater implications. In a sustained, sophisticated manner they sought to legitimise radical Islamist impulses in the Kashmir Valley and separatism disguised as a political cause although it is terrorism by another name. For this the services of usual suspects on the Hill, including Dan Burton, were secured — for a price. The lubricating power of ‘Brylcreem’, the code word used for millions of dollars supplied by the ISI and funneled into ‘lobbying’ activities by Fai, remained unknown till the KAC racket was exposed.

Along with many others in Delhi, this writer was on the mailing list of Fai’s KAC and would regularly receive invitations to attend ‘conferences’ organised in one of the Congressional chambers on the Hill. A detailed report on who all had attended the ‘conference’ and who had said what would follow, often penned by Victoria Schofield, one of the many Western journalists whose proximity to the Rawalpindi establishment is the subject of much speculation, none of it flattering. In the absence of any of the participants refuting the contents of these reports, they also serve as irrefutable documents of their having accepted Fai’s — and hence by implication the ISI’s — hospitality, including business class tickets, five-star hotel accommodation and a ‘token’ fee which really means an undisclosed amount of money, its quantum depending on how ‘influential’ the participant was perceived to be. It is entirely possible that Arundhati Roy who spends her afternoons in the company of Maoists listening to grasshoppers sing or helping radical Islamists hoist the Pakistani flag in Srinagar, Kuldip Nayar whose columns are published by a larger number of newspapers in India and Pakistan, Justice Rajinder Sachar of ‘Sachar Committee’ fame and Dileep Padgaonkar who was earlier editor of The Times of India and now heads the panel of interlocutors for Jammu & Kashmir set up by the Union Government had higher budgets allocated to their participation than, say, Bharat Bhushan who is editor of Mail Today and Gautam Navlakha who turns apoplectic with rage every time he is told India is a sovereign country with a republican Constitution. We don’t need to go into the details of their denunciation of the Government of India’s policies, the abuse they heaped on the Indian Army, the allegations they levelled against our security forces fighting terrorists and the horrible lies of rape and murder they repeated knowing full well these were slanderous and unsubstantiated. They are far too well known to merit elaboration.

All of them now say they were not aware of Fai’s links with the ISI or that the KAC was a front organisation of the Pakistani spy agency, that if invited again (of which there are slim chances), they won’t go. That’s balderdash. None of them is a novice in his or her chosen profession and the linkages of ‘think-tanks’ are a badly kept secret in Delhi. Back in the mid-1980s, some of us would receive invitations from Gurmit Singh Aulakh, the self-appointed ‘President’ of the imaginary ‘Council of Khalistan’, to attend ‘conferences’ organised by him in the Congressional chambers on the Hill. That’s not the only thing he shared in common with Fai; every ‘conference’ would be graced by Dan Burton. In those days there was no e-mail or fax; the invitations came by airmail in plain white envelopes containing neatly typed letters carrying the ‘official seal’ of the ‘Council of Khalistan’. It’s difficult to recall anybody accepting Aulakh’s invitations or travelling at his expense to Washington, DC — everybody knew it was a Pakistani operation, abetted, if not aided, by the CIA. So we would all have a laugh at the expense of Aulakh and his sponsors, and the invitations would go straight into the wastepaper basket. Similarly, everybody knew Fai’s antecedents and instinct should have told them that there was nothing kosher about his KAC or the ‘conferences’ organised by him. So, it’s difficult to believe them when they say that they did not know about Fai’s intentions and the KAC’s ISI link; in any event, as any court in the world would tell an accused, ignorance of the law is not an admissible plea. This brings us to where we began. A friend and fellow columnist described the beneficiaries of Fai’s hospitality with the ISI picking up the tab as “useful idiots, but idiots nonetheless”. I thoroughly disagree with him: They are not idiots, but yes, they have proved to be useful for Pakistan.

Fai’s KAC was only one of the many such operations by the ISI. The Kashmir Centres in London and Brussels are two more examples. How many of our Left-liberal intellectuals attended ‘conferences’ organised by these Kashmir Centres? And how many of them attended ‘seminars’ organised in nondescript American and European universities to ‘discuss’ the Kashmir problem? One such conference, “Kashmir in Crisis: Pathways to Peace”, was organised at the University of Colorado, Boulder, ostensibly by its students. The real organiser was a certain Ayesha Nawaz, Development Director of Al-Imtiaz Foundation, who was sending out mail and following up on travel plans for those invited to attend the ‘conference’ from “Pakistan, Kashmir and India”. A simple check on the Internet reveals that Al-Imtiaz Foundation has its headquarters at Mansehra Road, Supply Bazar, Abbottabad, Pakistan. Surely our Left-liberal intellectuals who attended this conference and held forth on India’s ‘villainous misdeeds’ in Jammu & Kashmir were not unaware of these details?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 24 Jul 2011 01:58

Muppalla wrote:By calling right words about these worthies on BR, the forum gor branded as Hindutva forum. There are voices on this forum to be moderate for image correction. Ironic.

That shows the penetration of the problem. The fix too must go that deep, one layer at a time.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 24 Jul 2011 06:08

2 LeT terrorists killed in Kashmir region

Terror hideouts and arms dumps destroyed in Jammu region

nagesh · Post by **nagesh** » 24 Jul 2011 10:33

I attended a function in my neighbour's house about 7-8 years back,organised by art of living ppl.To my surprise,I found a few 'firangs' attending too,who they said were studying Kasmir problem there.I asked the firang lady,what is their interest in an internal problem of India.my neighboursignalled me to keep silence as function was going on in her drawing room.incidently she is mother-in-law of the Unitech owner now in jail for 2G scam.looks like naive and rich housewives are taken for a ride by these shady guru,who add multiples of sri to their names.

ManishH wrote:Separatists are "respectable" people

The Art of Living Foundation founder and spiritual leader, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar on Thursday called for involvement of separatists in the talks for the resolution of Kashmir issue.
“They (separatist leaders) are respectable and important persons,”
I'll wait for a genuine quote from a respectable news source ... but this is what happens when denominational marketing interests override everything else and urge to be seen as a messiah of peace amongst one's flock.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 24 Jul 2011 11:48

Anindya wrote:Perhaps, they were commissioned specifically because a certain outcome was desired.

Isn't sachar author of a certain report on reservations?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 24 Jul 2011 11:56

Nagesh,

Sri Sri is no shady guru, he is a very intelligent man and a great spiritual master. Of course, I don't agree with some of what he has to say, but I rationalize it by realzing that unlike Christianity where Popes and Bishops are placed at a huge pedestal and have no problem with funds, Sr Sri after all, has to pay his bills. And to this end, he has to make hinself appealing to a wide audience. As I said, I don't like some of his positions, but he is no shady guru, I assure you of that.

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 24 Jul 2011 12:21

taped confession of the abducted Kulgam woman - does not speak of being raped by the Army at all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk5nRugvr_8

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 24 Jul 2011 12:25

chaanakya wrote:
Anindya wrote:Perhaps, they were commissioned specifically because a certain outcome was desired.
Isn't sachar author of a certain report on reservations?

What do you think?

sachar also counts fai of the ISI fame in his social circle.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 24 Jul 2011 12:41

^^^ Yup, not only that, sri sachar also championed the cause of 'em downtrodden minorities in the armed forces - first by forcing a religious headcount in the services (unprecedented in independent india) and then trying to ram through a religious recruitment quota which (mercifully) got shot down when the army put its foot down only.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 24 Jul 2011 12:49

Hari Seldon wrote:^^^ Yup, not only that, sri sachar also championed the cause of 'em downtrodden minorities in the armed forces - first by forcing a religious headcount in the services (unprecedented in independent india) and then trying to ram through a religious recruitment quota which (mercifully) got shot down when the army put its foot down only.

Then we all agree, anal yitcally speaking of course, that there is one more ramming to be done for srimanji

I for one, have no doubt whatsoever as to whose line this bigot was pushing. The religious head count in the services is the clue.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 24 Jul 2011 14:42

CRamS wrote:Nagesh,
Sri Sri is no shady guru, he is a very intelligent man and a great spiritual master. Of course, I don't agree with some of what he has to say, but I rationalize it by realzing that unlike Christianity where Popes and Bishops are placed at a huge pedestal and have no problem with funds, Sr Sri after all, has to pay his bills. And to this end, he has to make hinself appealing to a wide audience. As I said, I don't like some of his positions, but he is no shady guru, I assure you of that.

CRams, Sri Sri never talked like a WKK, see his statement below.

JAMMU, July 23: Stressing that terrorist activities should be curbed strongly, the founder of Art of Living Sri Sri Ravi Shanker today opined that the dialogue process with Pak must continue and there should be no deviation in the wake of recent Mumbai attacks.

He was in J&K (i think for amarnath Yatra) and talks about "curbing terrorist strongly", some DDM probabbly splicied and diced it to suit his WKK views. I am no fan of Sri Sri but what he proposes is "To carry a large stick, continue to talk and don't hesititate to strike".. something GOI is not familiar with entirely.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 24 Jul 2011 14:44

Airavat wrote:2 LeT terrorists killed in Kashmir region
Terror hideouts and arms dumps destroyed in Jammu region

We need a LongWarJournal type portal which documents the incidents happening in J&K. It would be ready reckoner for all terrorist incidents as well as Security Forces actions. This would also be a great "Internal Security" tool for policy makers and can be readily used to beat us WKKs who want to make love to the Paki-Jehadi-Rapists. Any takers for this idea? anything remotely like this exists?

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 24 Jul 2011 14:53

ManishH wrote:Separatists are "respectable" people
The Art of Living Foundation founder and spiritual leader, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar on Thursday called for involvement of separatists in the talks for the resolution of Kashmir issue. “They (separatist leaders) are respectable and important persons,”

Manish, you assertions based on a questionable news source is starting a flame war... I have checked two other sources, links below where the statement you quoted (see in bold) was not made by him at all.
http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/web1/11july24/news.htm#3
http://www.jammukashmirnow.com/sri-sri- ... ath-yatra/
Another posted also said I'll wait for a genuine quote from a respectable news source !!!
In this case Shoot the messenger!!! Contrary to what you had stated, he advocated strong action against terrorist and for continued dialog with the Pukes and also extending the Amarnath Yatra to 80+ days (hardly something endearing to the separatists).

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 24 Jul 2011 15:07

Shrinivasan wrote: Contrary to what you had stated, he advocated strong action against terrorist and for continued dialog with the Pukes and also extending the Amarnath Yatra to 80+ days (hardly something endearing to the separatists).

Srisri is extremely careful about what he says, especially in J&K and involving the separatists.

No way he would have said what has been attributed so casually to him.

He is always mindful of his target audience and their aspirations. Enough said.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 24 Jul 2011 17:09

Are they just useful idiots?

See this list of seculars and liberals. Justice Rajinder Sachar, author of the famous Sachar Committee Report on the state of Indian Muslims; Dileep Padgaonkar, one of the three interlocutors on J&K appointed by the central government; Harish Khare, the media adviser to the prime minister; Rita Manchanda, the India/Pakistan Local Partner for Women Waging Peace; Ved Bhasin, editor, Kashmir Times; Harinder Baweja, editor (investigations), Headlines Today; Gautam Navlakha and Kamal Chenoy, human rights activists, and; Praful Bidwai, well-known columnist. This is the illustrative list of popular Indian liberals who exert powerful influence over the Indian discourse — be it on Kashmir or secularism or on corruption or communalism or on Narendra Modi or Sonia Gandhi.

But this is not the list of probables for the Padma awards. This is the list of those who have been the guests of Ghulam Nabi Fai, who was arrested three days back by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the US for acting as the front man of Pakistan’s Inter Services Intelligence (ISI).

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 24 Jul 2011 17:10

chetak wrote:
Shrinivasan wrote: Contrary to what you had stated, he advocated strong action against terrorist and for continued dialog with the Pukes and also extending the Amarnath Yatra to 80+ days (hardly something endearing to the separatists).
Srisri is extremely careful about what he says, especially in J&K and involving the separatists.
No way he would have said what has been attributed so casually to him.
He is always mindful of his target audience and their aspirations. Enough said.

Chetak, I am not making up anything, just google for this event and Sri Sri's statements, you'll see, check the links I posted too. I support his assertions and only contradicted the impression created by the other poster based on someone's false conclusions.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 24 Jul 2011 17:31

Shrinivasan wrote:
Chetak, I am not making up anything, just google for this event and Sri Sri's statements, you'll see, check the links I posted too. I support his assertions and only contradicted the impression created by the other poster based on someone's false conclusions.

Shrinivasan ji,

I did not accuse you of anything at all. Sorry if anything I said came off like that.

I know the AOL fairly well and also know that their primary target audience is of vital importance to the success of their efforts. That target audience has an certain overwhelming make up. It is also well nurtured by the AOL.

That is why I am sure that Srisri will never stray far from his flock, in word or deed. He simply cannot afford to.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 24 Jul 2011 18:19

Muppalla wrote:Are they just useful idiots?

at that link...this should be interesting

Denial by Harish Khare

This has reference to S Gurumurthy’s ‘Are they just ‘useful idiots’?’. Gurumurthy has included my name in the list of ‘seculars and liberals’ who have accepted Ghulam Nabi Fai’s invitation and hospitality. Gurumurthy’s assertion is a total lie. I completely deny the allegation. I do not know Fai. I have never met him, much less accepted his hospitality for any seminar or convention. A legal notice is also being sent to the newspaper.

Harish Khare

Media Advisor to PM

Gurumurthy replies:

The comment on Harish Khare was based on a news report carried in a responsible newspaper which had specifically mentioned that Khare had attended a seminar organised by Fai in Capitol Hill last year. The title of the report in the newspaper was ‘Indian liberals had availed of ISI hospitality’ and there was no denial of that report by anyone.

S Gurumurthy

Author

ManishH · Post by **ManishH** » 24 Jul 2011 19:49

Srinivasan: I was the one who said "I'll wait for a reliable source". But there is a possibility that demominational leaders get manipulated into giving respectability to the wrong kind of people. Please see this image from AoL website itself:

Therefore the need for pragmatism before "spreading message of peace". Not only Sri Sri Ravishankar, but even other people have been sucked into this kind of trap laid by Fai etc.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 24 Jul 2011 20:35

I am itching to ask our pseudo liberals and all Indians who attended Fais seminar.... how many Paki nationals on Fai's seminar circuit ever criticised Pakistani policies on kashmir ( terrorism etc)?

It was a disgrace to see Justice sachar, ved bhasin etc on arnabs show. Ved bhasin constantly referring to POK as Azad kashmir !! GP rightly pointed out use of AK by Ved Bhasin as a sign of his inclinations ..

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Jul 2011 23:19

chetak wrote:
Hari Seldon wrote:^^^ Yup, not only that, sri sachar also championed the cause of 'em downtrodden minorities in the armed forces - first by forcing a religious headcount in the services (unprecedented in independent india) and then trying to ram through a religious recruitment quota which (mercifully) got shot down when the army put its foot down only.
Then we all agree, anal yitcally speaking of course, that there is one more ramming to be done for srimanji :DI for one, have no doubt whatsoever as to whose line this bigot was pushing. The religious head count in the services is the clue.

The duely departed Kha-Lidhi was the main proponent of pushing "minoirty Quota" in National Security Institutions . I have no doubt that he was part of the same cabal getting instructions from ISI. IB should investigate this man's circle in relation with FAI's organization.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 25 Jul 2011 01:15

Prem wrote: The duely departed Kha-Lidhi was the main proponent of pushing "minoirty Quota" in National Security Institutions . I have no doubt that he was part of the same cabal getting instructions from ISI. IB should investigate this man's circle in relation with FAI's organization.

Gentlemen, once again, Fai and his circle seem to have been know to all and sundry in GoI and other circles where they need to know such things (we only know that know, and the fact that they were known)

DESPITE this, this Govt CHOSE Sachar & Padgaonkar to carry out extensive "realignment" in Govt policies.

What this say? I think the people who IB should investigate are people who chose these worthies for GoI duties. When will that happen now?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 25 Jul 2011 01:37

Sanku Sir ji,
Fai 's F Budy Khalidhi and his friendly ISI guided leftist-islamist tribe are the same people who take pride in wielding maniulating influence on communal riots in india. There is no reason to assume that they stricltly work with domestic agenda and not on behalf of Pakistani spy agency. The sad part is these people have easy access to Indian ruling class all the way to PMO. FAI=Khalidhi=PSers take inspiration from Maddoody. The below link claim good Islamist Khalidhi was financed by Agha Khan who "sold" Island to Maino Madam . Now how hard it could have been for this ISI funded folks to have access to PMO and through which channel?.
The Sacchar- vulture circling over the dead bodies of Indians in Bombay etc ought to be seen in same light/connection.

http://truthaboutmitindiaworkshop.wordp ... r-khalidi/
Omar Khalidi troublesome record
Omar Khalid is a staff member at MIT Aga Khan Program for Islamic Architecture. His work is used for Sachar Committee, Muslims in Army, reservations for Muslims etc. But close look at Omar Khalid work reveals a pattern. Omar Khalidi is a “Jamaati” or follower of Jamaat-e-Islami, an international Organization founded by Abu Ala Maududi, who was born in Hyderabad (India) and migrated to Pakistan after partition. Madudi is one of the two founderss of the Islamism, the other being Hasa al-Banna, founder of Muslim Brotherhood. Omar Khalidi is an admirer of Maudidi as seen in his article, “Mawlana Mawdudi and the Future Political Order in British India, The Muslim World”, VL: 93 NO: 3-4 PG: 415-427 2003.

jaibhim · Post by **jaibhim** » 25 Jul 2011 02:14

Useful idiots, what a shame, and a firing squad could be enacted from 100 years of solitude and severe punishment must be meted out to these traitors who speak about big things but are debased themselves!

Even a landless sharecropper with all his misery wont betray the country in this way. It might not be too far fetched to conclude there are traitors right at the top who want to dismember the idea of India come what may and they are doing it slowly but surely. It is unfreudian to expect pakistan not to expect his sibling to wreck himself as he accelerates his free fall following a slip from the abruzzi ridge but does the final act of cutting and dragging his sibling as he falls down. These hypocritical worms listen to other grasshoppers, trampling over smaller fellow brethren in Kafila; where activists,peaceniks, stalinist left liberals who love the guardian, concert of committees of concerned citizens, sahmat stop sauth asia piss, luytens delhi painters activists, liberals and civil rights and other jadavpur-south calcutta bhadralok jalapushpa eating jhollawallahs[reminds one of Unishe April the bengali-nee anglicized patriarch reading the morning paper] who however are now Chatterjee-nee Johnsons in some university holding vilayati passports vilayati in action, but feudal and really discriminatory in reality[reflected in their mercurial descent to India and the way they shout at the servant lower in caste and class but in public their chariot of choice to commence a rant in the conferences against human rights in India and need for more piss mint chutney equal-equal sauthekai asia]. In a linnaean fashion it could well be ascertained that sometimes these concerned citizens and mobile republics wearing big bindi, sometimes wearing jholla-jeans smoking and climbing copiously as they struggle to prove their vialyati credentials now big big WKK's after writing long narratives and dances of the oppressed to the torture of the oppressor read India; sometimes confabulating with RAPE golf or polo playing feudal begums, dazzling RAPE intellectuals disguising Madoudi, Mr.Vij of kafila, do many other interesting things as they dissent and try to have deep incursions using chains on the poor elephant accusing it of grave infringements of freedom which they and their RAPES friends who after much begging saying equal equal, come over to plays and poetry readings in India international centre, so so passionately espouse.

It may be recalled that this elite class of whom these scholars, activists concerned citizens, partition trauma bipolar sufferers, candle light holders have always had a freudian inferiority complex with the RAPES; perennially wanting to play their role of hold their hands and walk side by side even as the chatterjee-nee johnsons were okay following their RAPES, with Madoudi and the killing of kufrs but not so okay with butcher Indian state and amreeka who however, is a source of nirvana for their junkets.

Additionally Mr.Navlakha, boga, teary eyed Mr.Nayyar who plays the harp differently to suit the audience and others of yawn, are far too important to forget. Unless people here counter them at every stage it will be difficult to win the war of information. The WKK controlled stop we want piss more, media as it answers the actors of the Radia tapes, has rubbed its eyes excessively with deep-heat balm so that it turns the other way as it reaches out for a handkerchief.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 25 Jul 2011 06:12

Fai Indians not my Indians - By Swapan Dasgupta

As the London correspondent of an Indian newspaper in the mid-1990s, I went for a meeting on Jammu & Kashmir in one of the committee rooms of the Palace of Westminster. There was nothing spectacularly important about the meeting and my only reason for going was that an Indian diplomat pressed me to attend. Those were the days when Jammu & Kashmir was on the boil and Western Governments were inclined to be quietly sympathetic to the separatists.

The meeting would have been unmemorable had it not been for a group of about 10 so-called Kashmiri activists who started shouting slogans and forced the security staff to intervene and clear the whole room. The Indian diplomat was understandably dejected and angry but helpless. It had taken just 10 determined and rowdy activists to win a minor victory for Pakistan.

I was reminded of the incident last year when, on a visit to London, I observed a group of some 50 noisy demonstrators picketing the Indian High Commission in Aldwych. Later that day I asked an Indian diplomat who was knowledgeable about such things what all the fuss was about. Surely India-Pakistan diplomacy had gone beyond these silly bouts of slogan-shouting in London?

The diplomat’s answer was cynically revealing. “It’s a mug’s game,” he replied. The Pakistan mission, he indicated, was under a compulsion to keep its local supporters happy. As a matter of routine, a busload or so of protesters were brought in to shout slogans for a few hours. When the show was over, these guys retired to a side street a few blocks away where a Pakistani handler would dole out a small fee and a carton of cigarettes to each protester. “It’s completely purposeless but a part of the Pakistani drill,” my diplomat friend assured me.

I guess Ghulam Nabi Fai, the director of the Kashmiri American Council, who finds himself in trouble with the FBI for violating the provisions of the US Foreign Agents Registration Act, was also part of the ‘drill’ in Washington, DC. The US Justice Department has claimed that Fai’s organisation, which also has branches in London and Brussels, received nearly $4 million from the Pakistan Government since the mid-1990s. It is also alleged that Fai operated on the instructions of Islamabad for the past 20 years and interacted with his intelligence ‘handlers’ more than 4,000 times since June 2008. The allegations would suggest that Fai was a field operative for the notorious ISI.

Fai’s activities were a little more subtle than the hired rabble in London that mouthed anti-India profanities for the sake of a carton of cigarettes. He organised seminars and conferences and lobbied law-makers to influence US policy on Kashmir — a legitimate activity if you consider that his primary allegiance was to Pakistan.

As part of his promotion of Pakistani interests, Fai assiduously courted those Indians in India who would help serve his interests. He made it a point to invite select Indians to his annual conferences in Washington — the business class tickets and generous hospitality being sweeteners. Naturally, his interest was focussed on those Indians whose views converged with the interests of Pakistan. He wasn’t bothered with Indians who felt that Jammu & Kashmir was an integral part of the Indian Union, even if some of them were unhappy with New Delhi’s handling of the civil unrest in the State. He was interested in a particular type of Indians — those who were critical of the Indian state but, at the same time, were also well-connected figures in the larger Indian Establishment. The so-called ‘human rights activists’ and ‘independent’ journalists were high on Fai’s list of priorities.

This is not to suggest that every Indian who disagreed with the official position on Jammu & Kashmir did so with a view to making Islamabad happy. That is clearly not the case. However, the contrarian would have to be a prize ass or wilfully obtuse to not realise that Pakistan would gleefully lap up their dissent for its own narrow advantage.

The issue, therefore, is not whether a Justice Rajinder Sachar or an editor of a mainstream publication held certain contrarian views that democratic India allows them the right to do. The issue is whether or not they were aware of Fai’s ability to use those views to promote the interests of Pakistan in a third country. All the evidence suggests that those Indians who travelled to the US to participate in Fai-organised programmes did so with the full awareness of the larger agenda of the Kashmiri American Council. The greed of a junket proved so overwhelming that they were willing to aid the interests of an enemy nation — and let’s have no doubt that Pakistan is an enemy nation with which India has been in a state of undeclared war.

There is a difference between a junket and an ISI-sponsored junket. Those who can’t appreciate the difference don’t deserve to grace public life in India.

The legitimacy Fai’s Indians gave to Pakistan’s war of a thousand cuts resulted in more than diplomatic embarrassment to India. It helped prolong a conflict and has resulted in the spilling of innocent blood.

To condone the transgressions of Fai’s Indians as simple naiveté or a colossal misjudgement is to be excessively indulgent. To not bat for India isn’t an offence; to play for Pakistan is an act of betrayal.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 25 Jul 2011 06:29

I've been scouting websites Indian TV networks including timesNow, undyTV, IBN etc. Arnab on TomesNow has forecfully highlighted the Indian uself idiots and traitors who willingly betrayed their country by joining Fai's cabal. But couldn't find anything on undyTV, IBN, headlines etc. Did I miss it, or am I correct.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 25 Jul 2011 06:57

CRamS - UndiTV, IBN are all Fai network.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 25 Jul 2011 07:21

Muppalla wrote:CRamS - UndiTV, IBN are all Fai network.

Indeed, I was struck by their silence on Fai's busting. Of course, if prior to FBI busting him, had anybody in India cast aspersions on the jaunts of Indian "secularists", these networks would have come out swinging citing communalism.