PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 26 Jul 2011 19:14

China Crash May Give ‘Zero’ Chance for Bullet-Train Exports

Chinese rail suppliers, who helped build the world’s largest bullet-train network in less than a decade, may struggle to sell equipment overseas after two locomotives collided, killing at least 39 people.

Trainmakers CSR Corp. and China CNR Corp., builders including China Railway Construction Corp. and parts makers such as Zhuzhou CSR Times Electric Co., have challenged European and Japanese suppliers overseas, touting experience gained from construction of the nation’s domestic network. The fatal crash, near Wenzhou on July 23, may undermine their sales pitches.

“Their chances of selling high-speed trains are zero,” said Edwin Merner, president of Atlantis Investment Research Corp. in Tokyo, which manages about $3 billion in assets. “I don’t think they can ever get confidence back.”

saip · Post by **saip** » 26 Jul 2011 19:53

Singha wrote:a nice 10 min video of a CRH train interior...good piece of kit...its just that the steady speed of 340kmph seems to be running way faster than the 275kmph reco of kawasaki who secured a written letter and washed their hands off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If-fQtpCdFs&feature=fvst

impressive civic sense in keeping the stations and toilets quite neat.

But the whole train is practically empty. There seem to be more workers at the snack bar than in the train. I hope the situation has improved or they will be broke in no time.

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 26 Jul 2011 20:45

Give it time. It takes a while for capacity to be reached. China is a huge nation with the largest population. I would not be surprised if the bullet trains are filled to capacity within the next couple years. You have to overcome inertia. With China's size it will take a while.

manum · Post by **manum** » 26 Jul 2011 21:04

this is something I came across, the guy is an Architect and this is an essay he wrote on his blog about PRC and Shanghai...

http://anarchytect.blogspot.com/2011/07 ... notes.html

a_bharat · Post by **a_bharat** » 27 Jul 2011 07:04

^^^ Too much rambling; if you read it, can you please post the gist.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Jul 2011 09:00

wow, what have they done to shanghai.. the biggest tv tower in the world - canton tower. marvelous engineering piece. kudos.

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 27 Jul 2011 09:12

China wins first place in 52nd lnternation Mathematical Olympiad

U.S came in second, more than half of her team members are Chinese origin.

manum · Post by **manum** » 27 Jul 2011 09:34

continued from above posted link http://anarchytect.blogspot.com/2011/07 ... notes.html

a common frustration among us here in india is the perpetual annoyance at the speed at which china seems to have taken its most recent 'great leap forward' and the halting, staccato way in which change is occurring here. for some reason we claim to be in competition. after 5 days in shanghai (admittedly insufficient to understand the complexity of the city) i was not so sure that we needed to follow the 'china model' for development.

in china it seemed as if the system of indoctrination was extraordinarily successful in creating a strong sense of nationhood and loyalty; but also fear. as the body is made machine through daily exercises in schools, in the removal of the body-memory embedded in traditional ritual and family ties through the cultural revolution; the mind is numbed through a propaganda machinery that controls most of what you are allowed to think; and even manages to make release valves for frustrations in the space of art and research.

every chinese resident is assigned a identity card which determines the geography of their residence and workplace. if you lived in a smaller village in some other district and happened to get a job in shanghai, you would have to give up your old identity card and obtain one in the city of shanghai (your 'unit') or your workplace helps you to get this id but the process is long tedious and like all bureaucracy is tiresome. having received the shanghai card you can now access some of the best services for education and health care. your existence in the city is thus dependent on the generosity of the 'unit'- an arm of the state. if it so happens that you happen to get fired out of the job that you held- you will have to revert back to the older card and will lose access to all the services the city has to offer. you have to go back. the state then controls your every movement through an intricate system of paperwork. we were told that there is file on every single person that tracks their trajectory. in this climate, how does one protest? and to whom?

the state exists as an invisible cloud hovering over every single aspect of the country. but it is impenetrable. the 'government' is a being- faceless and anonymous- more frightening because of this. its intricate machinations are invisible to the common man. for us, used to a porous government whose rifts are apparent and many, this form of control was unfathomable. the communist party is all powerful and has created all kinds of ways to propagate its own power. meanwhile, all other power centres have been systematically erased. religious institutions, especially chinese ones, have been destroyed; the ancestral system of worship, all but vanished, and with it traditional crafts. and this in a country so conscious of its own history. 'chineseness' then becomes a commodity of dragons, kung fu and tea ceremonies. history is image. meanwhile in a desperate urge to hold on to something 'real' a past is made anew- as style.

meanwhile where traditional residential architecture has all been lost- demolished in the cultural revolution as symbols of the bourgeoisie. there is a desperate urge to revive the forms and processes of a bygone era in today's china by a few individuals. craftsmen are sought and given opportunities to recreate in traditional methods- the ancient. this is also artifice and can only be called a 'fake real'. a stab at recreation of a lost authentic identity. the 'fake fake' is the self conscious nudge-nudge wink-wink post-modern embrace of the surface as content. amusement parks-perhaps. in china, the difference between all of these is difficult to locate.
but where is the 'real real': the place where really china is said to lie. for many it lies in the villages that were once wiped clean by the cultural revolution. this 'authentic' construct of a china refuses to acknowledge years of communist rule, turning its back on its violences and displacements.

if this is not frightening enough, an incident in this neighbourhood shut me up for the next two hours. as we were photographing this story- a demolished wall with high rises rising out of it, we were stopped by a man who seemed to live in this neighbourhood. he asked us to stop photographing 'bad' things. " all countries have rich and poor people. do not show poor people. this area is going to go and become like that" pointing us to the high rises across the street. in him i felt a strange mixture of embarrassment, anger and national pride. he knew that what was happening was strange- but he also felt that it was a necessary evil- something that had to happen for china to progress. he saw himself as a cog within a much larger machine whose role was to play a small, insignificant role in the building of a nation. his role was to meekly accept the displacement.
agency and entitlement, in the way that we know it, did not seem to exist in consciousness of people in china. while we rambled on about talking to the state and negotiating with it for our rights, our chinese friends looked on bemusedly at our naivety and told us that deep in the heart of every chinese person is a core of fear. what we take for granted, they cannot.

this is a landscape of unbearable sweetness and beauty with a dark dark heart.

ashashi · Post by **ashashi** » 27 Jul 2011 16:55

ashi wrote:China wins first place in 52nd lnternation Mathematical Olympiad

U.S came in second, more than half of her team members are Chinese origin.

I am sure the Chinese participants were specifically trained for this event for years by the govt, similar to gymnasts. Not a true reflection of the society at large.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Jul 2011 17:35

oh yes they have made a h&d of every international contest following in the traditions of ussr and gdr

germany, japan, france, italy and UK all came in below...romania, north korea and iran.

so I guess the worlds next gen of technology is going to come out of these three.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 27 Jul 2011 17:48

^^^ This is basically a school kid competition. (CLASS 12). The chinese and some others send college grads instead . India does well in physics and chemistry. (3 and 7th rank respectively). Chinese top all contests. Several years ago when I was in 12th grade I almost got selected to represent India. One of my friends got selected. Many of the chinese "16 year olds" looked like daddies. The American team then thought (loudly) that the Chinese 'kids' seems too old. But no one dared raise their voice.

manum · Post by **manum** » 27 Jul 2011 19:51

Chinese have done wonders in manufacturing industry, which has currently started to grip India as well...
China has caused a great deal of internal demand in construction and manufacturing industry so much so that it overtakes any other nation in 90% of low tech and medium tech manufacturing...

Only front where China looses is humanitarian ground...which is a dicey affair like since when morality gave food?

dicey point for China is if there is slack in economy at point of time, unemployment will kill all kinds of governance in PRC...

The issue is China depends on basic economic calculation of demand...like plastic, metal, manufacturing, medicine, assembling, electronics and now its trying hand in softwares...

This is why China can never focus on producing high quality products...It has to keep running to remain alive, stagnating is not an option for PRC, it'll cause a disaster...that is why they manufacture goods for whole world and cannot really steal the technology, in any such case the market will shift to India, vietnam, philly, thailand and so on...

This is continuous process and hopefully PRC is making money because lets say there is investment of x in creating the infrastructure, then at some point of time one must go on and able discontinue it after a while due to sufficient cost recovery...and also because while manufacturing was happening, R&D caused a better version which means a new setup after cost recovery....
This is also means covering all the money PRC spends in development, defence and townships...

now if you see when we say we don't want to become China...actually even if we offer the world cheaper price to do what China is doing, we wont get it...for a simple reason of no infrastructure to create such a high supply...We have still not raised our bar of great internal demand. We are waiting lazily for such a day and actually delaying it because of liability it brings...

Its just a matter of timing...the people are not going to stop consumption...what will happen is only demand might drop as world economy shrinks in case...

This is why european nations dont want to part with green technologies and high end technologies...its their guarantee of surviving and keeping the money in group of few...

What is India's guarantee is its people and highly productive agricultural land for self sustainance...and may be IT industry...What we can offer the whole world is brain or human skill...

The cultural and industrial revolution in China has been done through foreign seeds...Its like a tree which grows big and slowly destroys all the local flora and fauna...

Was it worth it, we'll see in our lifetime...

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 28 Jul 2011 07:59

Xinhua: Trash crash due to design flaw in signaling equipment

A deadly train crash in eastern China on the weekend was caused by a "severe flaw" in the design of signaling equipment, the official Xinhua news agency reported on Thursday, citing the Shanghai Railway Bureau.

A high-speed train rammed into another stalled train near the city of Wenzhou in Zhejiang province late on Saturday, the report said, because a signal should have turned red after a lighting strike, but it was mistakenly still green, Xinhua said.

Xinhua cited Shanghai Railway Bureau head An Lusheng as saying that railway staff at the Wenzhou station did not respond correctly after the signaling system failed.

The signal equipment was designed by a research and design institute in Beijing, Xinhua said, but it did not disclose the full name of the institute. The equipment had been in operation since September 2009.

Shankas · Post by **Shankas** » 28 Jul 2011 09:44

Suraj wrote:Xinhua: Trash crash due to design flaw in signaling equipment

Just thinking out loud. Siemens and other signal providers should announce a flaw in their circuit design and replace circuits they have provided to China Rail. No need to redesign anything, just change some wire colors and rewrite some symbols.

It would be fun to watch China Rail clone and replace all the signaling equipment

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 28 Jul 2011 11:32

IMO it is quite shocking that visual color aspect signaling is being used for HSR trains running at 300 kmph and above. They need at least in-cab signalling.

Ideally they should have a train locking protection system as the Japanese have as well that would stop the rake on any error code. The side effect would be that the train engineers/maintenance would have to be the very best in the business as even a small error of operation or maintenance would stop the train. I strongly suspect that the train interlocks have been deliberately over-ridden or simply eliminated to avoid this issue. Panda tactical brilliance only.

Still even this does not explain how a lighting strike caused the signal to stay Green rather than shorting out. I thought the power supply failed so what gives. It also does not explain how they lost track of a stalled train on the tracks that had been sitting there by some reports for 20 minutes or more. A simple cellphone call could have saved those people. It also does not explain the mysterious power failure that allowed one train to proceed while the other stalled. So much does not make sense. There is chain upon chain of things that went wrong to produce this tragedy.

This looks like another H&D cover-up.

P.S. listen to the hellish whine of the train that TGV or Shinkansen does not have. Should have fixed that problem before mass production.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDJT0QWB9Kc

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jul 2011 11:48

this TGV driver pov video shows no external signals being used...it must all be coming on the driver console with visual and beeps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbKEeHzuBwc

imo its suicidal to depend on external old style traffic signals @ 350kmph, what happens if there is heavy rain or fog or snow?

tactical cost cutting brilliance I suppose. the original canadian and japanese trains they cloned surely had it. even the sdre amtrak acela has it per a CG game I had played once.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 28 Jul 2011 12:17

I could not believe it either.

So I went back and checked. And there is very definitely track side visual aspect signals.

Take a look at minute 2:00 and at 2:13 of this video. Just before/after it enters the station. Blink and you will miss it but it is definitely there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FHkW-I6vcU&NR=1

Now it could also be tied to an in-cab signal but it still says something for the thought process. There is no beep with a required response from Engineer as there would be for in-cab signal every time they cross a station say. I don't think they are using such a system guys.

Here's the cab for the CRH3A. There is no sign of an in-cab signal. esp. as it is stationary. It should be clearly visible in the middle panel. The panel on the left appears to indicate mech. status of coaches.
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/orig ... 550814.jpg !warning! large image.

Acharya,

Put a note or something to convey what you are saying. Otherwise it just thread disruption.

vvvvv

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 28 Jul 2011 12:22

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jul 2011 15:11

not as pretty as the signature shot of a shinkansen cruising past Mount Fujiyama.

Purush · Post by **Purush** » 29 Jul 2011 06:58

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-2 ... inter.html

On the evening of July 23, news broke on China’s microblogs that a collision and derailment occurred on high-speed rail tracks between the boomtowns of Taizhou and Wenzhou, killing at least 39 people.

Less than 48 hours later, Chinese internet users were horrified and infuriated by images of the damaged train cars being chopped up and buried. For a Chinese public that had, even before the accident, become fed up with the corruption related to the country’s outrageously expensive high-speed rail lines, the burial suggested a cover-up of defects in the rail system’s infrastructure.

In the days since, China's propaganda managers have been learning a lesson American politicians know well (but don't always heed): the cover-up is often worse than the crime.

When the accident happened outside of Wenzhou, the propaganda department responded with a predictable list of orders for all media outlets. The list, which was quickly leaked onto the internet, read in part:

The latest directives on reporting the Wenzhou high-speed train crash:
1. Release death toll only according to figures from authorities.
2. Do not report on a frequent basis.
3. More touching stories are to be reported instead, i.e. blood donation, free taxi services, etc.
4. Do not investigate the causes of the accident; use information released from authorities as standard.
5. Do not reflect or comment.

Ordinarily, these government directives are observed, or journalists elect to stay silent on the relevant matter. In this case though, the majority of Chinese media, including state-owned mouthpieces, bucked the official orders and directly challenged the government.

vina · Post by **vina** » 29 Jul 2011 09:30

Singha wrote:tactical cost cutting brilliance I suppose. the original canadian and japanese trains they cloned surely had it. even the sdre amtrak acela has it per a CG game I had played once.

I think this wasnt a "Bullet train" /HSR track, but rather an "extended speed" / 1st gen track with speeds limited to 150kmph or so. That kind of speeds you can get away with visual signalling I think, esp if the trains are speed limited.

I cannot imagine the HSR's running on the high speed track without ATS/ATO (the entire train can be run driverless, even the metro systems in all places, including Delhi etc have that) an in cab signalling. The Chinese just got lucky/ unlucky with this I think.

But really I think it can be summed up in this sentence.

The cloned Kawasaki train rear ended the cloned Bombardier train because the cloned signalling equipment failed.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 29 Jul 2011 10:03

^^^^
Look at the video of the Shanghai Nanjing line I posted. The line & train are latest generation. Rated for 300 kmph +. Both are clearly track side visual aspect signaling. There are no in-cab beeps and aural speed alerts as would be mandatory for in-cab signaling.

Me thinks you underestimate Panda ability to score own goals.

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 29 Jul 2011 10:31

Please check this video of the Shinkansen 500

At the 18 sec mark....you can clearly see a bright red light "cube" inside the cabin when the train is stationary. I suppose that would be the signalling?

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 29 Jul 2011 10:36

Shankas wrote:
Suraj wrote:Xinhua: Trash crash due to design flaw in signaling equipment

Just thinking out loud. Siemens and other signal providers should announce a flaw in their circuit design and replace circuits they have provided to China Rail. No need to redesign anything, just change some wire colors and rewrite some symbols.

It would be fun to watch China Rail clone and replace all the signaling equipment

There is no fun in increasing the likelihood for disaster.

Shankas · Post by **Shankas** » 29 Jul 2011 10:44

Vasu wrote:

There is no fun in increasing the likelihood for disaster.

They have a choice of playing by the rule. Buy original equipment, honor agreements and respect IP's.

vina · Post by **vina** » 29 Jul 2011 11:50

Theo_Fidel wrote:^^^^
Look at the video of the Shanghai Nanjing line I posted. The line & train are latest generation. Rated for 300 kmph +. Both are clearly track side visual aspect signaling. There are no in-cab beeps and aural speed alerts as would be mandatory for in-cab signaling.

Me thinks you underestimate Panda ability to score own goals.

I dont know. Is it possible that they also run non ATS/ATO trains on the same track and will need a visual signaling system for that.

But you do have a point. With the trains imported & cloned from Bombardier, Altsom and Kawasaki , the signaling would be a mess of multiple standards, unless Panda standardized on on particular standard before hand and specified in the train buy orders that the trains should be compliant to that signaling standard. I wonder whose/what/which signaling standard they adopted /cloned.

Maybe Panda told the guys, you get the trains, we will put in the signaling and train control part ourselves and that "Chinese" part of the system (controlling and signaling failed, the other proven parts worked fine) and that Chinese signaling system is the "national technical secrets" that they pointed as a reason for burying the trains (if there is a charitable explanation at all for the quick burial).

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 29 Jul 2011 12:09

Shankas wrote:They have a choice of playing by the rule. Buy original equipment, honor agreements and respect IP's.

Or at least understand what the hell they are doing. There was a report that none of the Train drivers are even college educated. Now this might be OK for old time Diesel loco, but not at 300 kmph with 2000 error codes. They are called train engineers for a reason.

Anish, that flashing light is probably for passengers and the platform guard. It is likely tied to a Train protection system. In-cab signaling is not a matter of red lights, though they are used on slower trains.

Vina, Yes, I don't think they 'built' the lines with out ATP. But it appears they might run the trains even with ATP non-operational. Now without Trackside signals, you simply can't run without an operational ATP. There is a possibility that the in-cab signals are not always used or was non-compatible or non-operational and they ran the train anyway. Which is how the accident happened. Hence the haste to bury/destroy everything.

Take a look at this Shinkansen in-cab signals. Typically there is a signal every 8 secs or so, (brain alertness interval) that must be acknowledged or train will stop. You simply can't miss it.

Got to hand it to the Japanese. You can see the dense knowledge of the system the driver demonstrates. Does not come easy or cheap. Panda has cloned the technology without understand the full rich picture or even willfully ignoring it..

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 29 Jul 2011 20:05

^^^
Awesome video

Has Japan, France, Germany or any of the HSR operators ever had an accident on this scale or chini biladel is the first?
I have taken a ride on the Amtrak Acela once and can say its nothing impressive....

It runs on regular track at 150mph top speed, which is also used for freight trains and that's the only good thing about it.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 29 Jul 2011 20:21

Germany has had the only bad one so far.

Due to Wheel shattering on design flaw. Design was Changed. flawless since.

Others are spotless. On dedicated, well built infrastructure, it is very possible to stay spotless.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Jul 2011 20:30

I believe germany has had multiple crashes of inter-city trains in last few yrs. france and japan have kept a clean slate...so too spain which I think uses the TGV type kit extending out of french border.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 31 Jul 2011 22:31

From Xinhua:
Foxconn to replace workers with 1 million robots in 3 years

SHENZHEN, July 29 (Xinhua) -- Taiwanese technology giant Foxconn will replace some of its workers with 1 million robots in three years to cut rising labor expenses and improve efficiency, said Terry Gou, founder and chairman of the company, late Friday.
...
...
The company currently employs 1.2 million people, with about 1 million of them based on the Chinese mainland.

This might be detrimental for Chinese workers because:
(a) Where are the robots going to be placed at (Taiwan or China)?
(b) How many of the 1 million workers are going to be replaced by robots?

Furthermore, note that wages in China have risen to the point that Foxconn is considering robots as the cheaper alternative. Mind you, Foxconn is one of the biggest private employers in China and despite all the noise about worker suicides, their suicide rate is well below the average rate in China and they're one of the better paying employers + better working conditions than some of the others. Which is why there might be a lot of p*ssed off workers if they were to be replaced by robots.

Interesting times ahead.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 01 Aug 2011 01:31

X Posted from China Military Watch Thread
http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/07/japa ... inese.html

One more thing. According to a "foreign" insurance company, China's high-speed train accident has 259 people dead, 183 injured, and 154 still missing. The numbers are set to increase, according to this insurance company.

The families of the victims continue to protest, and I've wondering about "missing" people. Now I begin to see why the Chinese government hastily doubled the compensation for the victims.

According to the information I just obtained, a nuclear submarine of the Chinese Navy had an accident in the port of Dalian on July 29, and there is a leak of radiation. The area is strictly closed off by the Chinese military, and the situation is said to be very dangerous.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 01 Aug 2011 09:57

Why China May Need a Recession

sum · Post by **sum** » 01 Aug 2011 11:39

Foxconn to replace workers with 1 million robots in 3 years

Will the robots also start committing mass suicides after being overworked like current foxconn workers seem to be doing?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Aug 2011 12:17

robots might actually cut wage costs and infra costs. they would not need the dormitory and township facilities provided to human workers, if broken can be fixed , do not get poached by other plants, can work 24x7, does not demand periodic raises , can pickup new skills ..... ofcourse they are expensive capex and only biggies like foxconn can afford them. the lower cost goods will continue to be using humans.

vina · Post by **vina** » 01 Aug 2011 12:19

ArmenT wrote:From Xinhua:
Foxconn to replace workers with 1 million robots in 3 years
Interesting times ahead.

Ah.. The current set of Robots no longer have the lil Mao's Red Book in their hands and march to "Revolutionary Tunes" to "Smash the Imperialist Designs" . Newer younger models of Robots are called for that have electronic versions of Mao's Lil Red Book and have "Revolutionary Tunes" singing from their iPods.

Old robot- new robot, all same-same. New Robots eat less food, wont want healthcare and will come much cheaper than bloated middle aged older robots!

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 02 Aug 2011 09:36

China doing what China does best.

China Imposes Media Blackout in Wake of Rail Accident

The Chinese government imposed a media blackout late last week on coverage of last month's high-speed rail accident that killed at least 40 people and injured 210.

The New York Times reports that the directive, which China made to state-run and privately owned media outlets, comes as criticism of the government's handling of the crash is growing stronger.

The order forced newspapers across China to withdraw front-page articles and rapidly revise their coverage of the accident. The move, however, only appeared to add to the public outcry over the government's handling of the crash, and many journalists took to social networking sites over the weekend to voice their disapproval.

The Chinese media have so far been highly critical over a perceived lack of transparency in the aftermath of the crash. The government's rescue efforts have also been a target of sharp criticism among the public and the press.

Still, the government could not censor the response on social media sites, where outraged citizens and journalists expressed their outrage. “My story will not go to print today and looks like I will have to write something else,” one journalist wrote on a microblog. “I’d rather leave the page blank with one word — ‘speechless.’ ”

The latest media blackout in China isn't the first time the government has censored the press during a period of criticism. After the devastating 2008 earthquake in Sichuan Province, Chinese officials blocked coverage of how the disaster affected poorly built schools in the region.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Aug 2011 10:02

the blackout seems to extend to paid web forum kampfdrohnen too. all have mysteriously disappeared back to the hive for instructions.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Aug 2011 14:33

another one for the annals of cloning...this time a IKEA store in kunming

see photos in this link
http://shanghaiist.com/2011/08/02/step_ ... opycat.php

Called 11 Furniture (十一家具), the four-story shopping experience essentially rips-off every single aspect of the the IKEA furniture concept, from its minimalist furniture aesthetic, specific furniture designs, mock-up rooms, signage font, and even the blue and yellow Swedish flag color scheme. Even the miniature pencils are lovingly recreated.

And if that's not enough, 11 Furniture also boasts the cafeteria-style restaurant that IKEA stores are famous for. But quite sensibly, instead of offering IKEA's Swedish meatballs and salmon, the menu features Chinese-style braised minced pork and eggs.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Aug 2011 14:35

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/ ... 7720110801

This knock-off Ikea store is emblematic of a new wave of piracy sweeping through China. Increasingly sophisticated counterfeiters no longer just pump out fake luxury handbags, DVDs and sports shoes but replicate the look, feel and service of successful Western retail concepts -- in essence, pirating the entire brand experience.

"This is a new phenomenon," said Adam Xu, retail analyst with Booz&Co. "Typically there are a lot of fake products, now we see more fakes in the service aspect in terms of (faking) the retail formats."

Brands are much more than a logo on a handbag or some half-eaten pipfruit on a computer.

Many of the most successful consumer companies have invested millions in promoting and building brands which encapsulate ideals, values and aspirations, creating valuable and loyal customer bases that sometimes border on cults.