"Christian" Fundamentalism in West

[Fidel Guevara]

The Mein Kampf of this killer is rapidly becoming a bible for Nationalists in all countries - checked out a couple of usually left-of-centre Canadian popular blogs where people have started quoting bits and pieces of his writings.

Nothing original in what he wrote...many people in many diverse countries have felt similarly and passionately discussed the same with other jingoes. This guy was just the catalyst who put it all together in one document and publicized it globally with his act of mass-murder. There have been other mass-murders before, however all were quickly proved to be the act of a loony or somebody who just snapped. This is the first time since McVeigh that we have an ideology behind the act. In McVeigh's case, his problem was very specific to the US Federal Govt, however this guy Anders has touched upon (or set off) a global meme.

Much as the liberals may wish this away, this isn't going to pass so quickly. Memes have a way of mutating and surviving long past their expected expiry date.

[A_Gupta]

Breivik wants to go around assassinating people, and even engineering a Chernobyl-like disaster, in order to defeat what he sees as an Islamic demographic jihad. These are not means that the Hindu rightists advocate. Breivik wants to deport all non-Christians from Europe; as far as I know, Hindu rightists don't have an equivalent goal.

Nevertheless, Pakistanis - "liberals" and the rest - will increasing pin their Raisin Dieter on the existence of the Hindu Right Wing.

[Fidel Guevara]

But Breivik is a white supremacist ranting against what are seen as a poor refugee immigrant underclass.

I don't see how Breivik is a white supremacist...he doesn't discuss the superiority of his race over others. He just wants his homeland returned to the natives.

[Agnimitra]

^^Fidel, but those distinctions are not made by the left, just as "Hindutva" is conflated with upper caste supremacist idealogy.

[darshhan]

But Breivik is a white supremacist ranting against what are seen as a poor refugee immigrant underclass.

I don't see how Breivik is a white supremacist...he doesn't discuss the superiority of his race over others. He just wants his homeland returned to the natives.

If anything he demonstrates a deeper understanding of what other nationalities and races suffered at the hands of Islam.Something which many of our own people do not get.

[sanjeevpunj]

Anders is actually right to the extent when he clarifies to the world that Islamists are not to be taken lightly but opposed, or else they will gradually enforce Islam worldwide. This is a genuine fear felt amongst youth, not just in Europe, but all over the world. You should see the volumes of video games designed to fight off this fear in the kids.A game called America's Army has many sims that take you into Afghanistan or Pakistan scenarios, and you have to kill Taleban.All the AI characters are Taleban, while individuals playing the game are US Army soldiers.These games bring back some enthusiasm in the kids, who then grow up,mature out of the games into real world, and perhaps join the US Army.I read that Anders was good at playing Warcraft, which is one real crazy game that many people, including adults, take too seriously,and their real life might be affected by it.

Yet,I would not support the action that Anders Breivik contemplated,planned meticulously,and executed with near perfection.Wrong targets.He chose soft targets,that was cowardly first of all,and uncalled for.Killing unarmed people is so easy.What war was he fighting? Attack party attendees on an island? How is that different from terrorism. It cannot be separated from terrorism.However,he thought that is the best way to express himself,and no one can do a sh*t about it anyway, now that the act has been done. He could have proved his point better,by targetting a conclave of talebans attending a shura council meeting in afpak region.It would really have put him high up in in the minds of many.Now the deed is done,and he goes down into the bowels of the judicial system that has caught up with him. I really feel this will not be repeated by anyone so soon in the near future, though it might spawn latent reactions remotely.This guy definitely was strong enough to execute a plan, after years of painstaking research and hard work,yet he was not on target.

[brihaspati]

Why does even the horrible genocide of 1947 and 1971 at the hands of Islamists still doe snot jeopardize Islam? Why is not Stalin's actions and Lenin's actions [yes he was also responsible for ordering mass-murders] or Mao's actions or the modern Maoist actions in India still not jeopardize the underlying ideology? How can our media and so-called intellectuals - still always claim that some "people" take it to the extreme - but Islam or Christianity or Marxism cannot be or should not be "demonized" for the actions of a "few" "individuals"?

One obvious reason is that Naxals or Islamists are perceived to be underdogs fighting against privileged oppressors, be they "Zionists" or big and hegemonistic "upper caste Hindu" India.

Note how TSP even defines itself as a tactical haven to guarantee the safety of the subcontinent's Moslems "minority". One can see how they define the reference frame of their identities in order to project a psychological effect. Thus, these idealogies of revenge and justice attract a pro-survival affinity psychology in humans, versus the anti-survival fear psychology coming from what is seen as the unjust status quo establishment. Like Robin Hood. But Breivik is a white supremacist ranting against what are seen as a poor refugee immigrant underclass.

Sorry? which underclass were the Muslim League leaders like MA Jinnah and Hussein Suhrawardy representing that justified a bloodletting and rape of the order unleashed? Which Hindus were then ruling and repressing the Muslims of India? Which Hindus made it difficult for Kashmiri Muslims to survive in the 60's and in the 70's and in the 80's and in the 90's?

We can't take our cues from anti-Moslem Westerners, and certainly not their Breiviks. I agree with Harbans here, that even if Breivik's grouse reflected many of our own civilizational memories and present day problems, his method and madness is incompatible with our Dharma and needs to be condemned. Our critique of this incident needs to reflect this distinction also.

Let us not bring our "dharma" into this! it needs a holiday and rest from the continuous battering and convenient use by p-secs and anti-India forces to try and establish "emasculation before attack and decimation" == "dharma" whenever one of their pet ideologies need to be protected. No one here is saying we need to tale a cue from his "methods". But what is being clearly said is that the alleged action by a few individual's like him does not necessarily detract from the validity of the broad base of his ideological logic - if the action of a "few" Islamists or Maoists/Marxists does not detract from the broad ideological validity of their respective ideological positions.

IMHO, if right-wing groups in India were to directly attack culpable targets inside TSP itself, they would not be susceptible to "Cultural Marxist" propaganda as when they even verbally confront questionable elements within our nation. Add to that an initiative to create social justice and opportunity for one's less fortunate brethren. These would be elements of dharmic chivalry that no one can undermine.

Instead, if right-wingers think that they need to "first" tackle p-secs and crypto-Pakis within the country "before" they can handle TSP itself, then that is already on the backfoot. No need for a Breivik to put them on the backfoot.

So it is the Cultural-Nihilist-Marxists who still set the agenda of the discourse? right-wingers are required to follow the rules of engagement as prescribed by Marxian high-priests? I am entirely game for it - I can use Lenin's writings and Marx line by line to justify evey current "right-wing" position!

[Agnimitra]

Brihastapit ji, I wasn't contradicting anything you said, just using your plaintive rhetoric as a segue to make another point. you're preaching to the choir here.

Sorry? which underclass were the Muslim League leaders like MA Jinnah and Hussein Suhrawardy representing

The "minority" that was supposedly going to be overwhelmed and dominated by a majority community with a historical grouse. That's partly how they projected it. Its fascinating how they manage to project victimhood hand-in-hand with TFTAness.

So it is the Cultural-Nihilist-Marxists who still set the agenda of the discourse? right-wingers are required to follow the rules of engagement as prescribed by Marxian high-priests?

No, it would have to be a pragmatic, psychological and moral imperative that dictates that strategy. I had pointed this out on a previous post on another thread some time ago.

[Prem]

If someone happen to apply right kind of Breivik Remedial Method of Nishkam Karma in Desh then 99% chances that "vulture-marxists" will simply shut up. FAi's f buddies have demonstrated that They are use to having free comforts to have the luxury of PSs reveries. Take the comfort away and make them run to remain "healthy' to diffusing their natura occuring l Bloat. In last 60Plus years they have gone unslapped which have gine the impression of facing no reprecussions for their unholy deeds. Thier Mahapaap require they go throuigh the right kind of penance wash their Kukarama.

[brihaspati]

My point is very very simple - the point about "survival against stronger regimes" argument given to justifuy Islamist atrocities or Marxist atrocities is a deadringer if actually taken apart. The KV Muslims tortured and typically went about in genocide fashion aginst a minority among their own - who were in no position to repress them in Kashmir after independence with an Islamophile regime in Union power. In undivided British India it was the British who still held power in 1946 when the Muslim "underclass" represented by the well-to-do ML leadership set about planning the rape and murder of Hindus and Sikhs. In th wider global context - if the Muslim ummah is fighting for survival against a global western onslaught - we do not see it! Muslim power centres are intact in Turkey - in fact growing back after pushing out the Kemalite interregnum and the leftists, have in fact benefited from Bush intervention in Iraq - with greater Islamization, running wild in Iran with Imams an Ayatollahs ruling the roost, Afghans have Talebs and continuing Islmization with the last vestiges of "secular" reform from the king's/soviet times written out, ME firmly in the grip of Islamism, and Israel now cornered with the west actually in camp bed making out with the Islamist Hamas, and Pak oh Pak! or BD oh BD, and Malaysia oh Malyasia - Somalia and entire north of Africa - oh captain my captain!

Everyone is scared globally to criticize islamism, everyone takes care to avoid connecting the Islamist violence with the core ideology it is sourced from, the west in general supports the anti-Isarel demands of the ME Islamists - so where exactly are they struggling to survive? or is it the old demand that if they are not increasiungly in state power everwhere and sharia and jazyia are not being imposed on every non-muslim it is a case of attack on Islam?

so simply pointing out the logical crminality sought to be perpetrated here by refusing to apply the "nuanced" treatment demanded to be given to Islamist or Maoist violence while allowing no dirt to stick to their ideology - to Breivik - is "plaintive rhetoric"? While refusing to see the ideological criminality of Islamism and Marxism is a sign of bold integrity and ideological honesty perhaps?!!!

[Agnimitra]

^^ B ji - again, no argument with facts here. I was only pointing out the justifications, dramatizations and computations that are used to good rhetorical effect by cultural marxists and islamists.

The manipulation of the ignorant and underprivileged by an elite class has been an historical feature of islamism and marxism, similar to other older ideologies in their own time. If one is to out-maneuver these new socio-political opiates, one needs to see how they derive their self-image, and then undercut them. That's all I'm saying.

[brihaspati]

Carl ji,
all I am asking is why cannot the same "undercutting" procedure be applied to Breivik and his ideology - why not think of him also as the representative of of a group which feels itself to be an "underclass", feels itself "manipulated" by the elite, "ignorant" [since he is not aware of the gloriously enriching and tolerant contributions to human civilization made by Islam and Marxism-Leninism] and "underprivileged" [just as Paki elite Muslim or ME elite Muslim feel "underprivileged" because they feel their identity is being threatened and under repression by the non-Muslim]?

Just as we use this logic for a "nuanced" treatment of the Islamist or the Maoist - why make an exception for Breivik? He has adopted violently symbolic acts, just as Maoists and Islamists do - but we must treat that sympathetically just as we are required to do towards Maoists and Islamists. He has claimed to act on behalf of supposedly socially endangered groups, and we have to be sympathetic - since we have to be so for Maoists and Islamists. We should engage them rather than go out with militant retaliation - because this is what is demanded of us towards maoists and Islamists. We should not criticize or even mention or discuss his "exclusivism" because we are are required not to do so towards Islamist and Maoist exclusivism - because all this negative approach does not help us to undercut them!

[anishns]

So, finally the story's been picked on WSJ

Norway Gunman Fascinated by Hindu Nationalism

Thank you Hindu

[Bhaskar]

So, finally the story's been picked on WSJ

Norway Gunman Fascinated by Hindu Nationalism

Thank you Hindu

What he said was right however, what he did was wrong and disgusting.
Now the media is going to turn this into a Sangh Parivar conspiracy story.... Just wait and watch. They will talk about this Norwegian guy and explain this is how dangerous "Saffron" terror is. Keep watching the news, there would be some laughable material in it in the coming weeks when big congress leaders will come in on an NDTV special and say how what happened in Norway is an example of what we can see next if BJP gets the power.

[Fidel Guevara]

Excerpt from the manifesto that pertains to India. Breivik doesn't seem "fascinated" by Hinduism, as the Hindu claims, more as an example of what happens when Islamists have the upper hand. He is also critical of the dhimmitude of the Indian government.

Deliberate ignorance about Hindu Kush

If the name Hindu Kush relates such a horrible genocide of Hindus, why are Hindus ignorant about it? and why the Government of India does not teach them about Hindu Kush? The history and geography curriculum’s in Indian Schools barely even mention Hindu Kush. The horrors of the Jewish holocaust are taught not only in schools in Israel, Europe and USA, but also in Germany; because both Germany and Israel consider the Jewish holocaust a 'dark chapter' in the history. The Indian Government instead of giving details of this 'dark chapter' in Indian history is busy in whitewash of Moslem atrocities and the Hindu holocaust. In 1982, the National Council of Educational Research and Training issued a directive for the rewriting of school texts. Among other things it stipulated that: 'Characterisation of the medieval period as a time of conflict between Hindus and Moslems is forbidden'. Thus denial of history or Negationism has become India's official 'educational' policy (21).

Often the official governmental historians brush aside questions such as those that Hindu Kush raises. They argue that the British version is the product of their 'divide and rule' policy' hence their version is not necessarily true. However it must be remembered that the earliest reference of the name Hindu Kush and its literal meaning 'Hindu Killer' comes from Ibn Battutah in 1333 AD, and at that time British were nowhere on the Indian scene. Secondly, if the name indeed was a misnomer then the Afghans should have protested against such a barbaric name and the last 660 plus years should have been adequate for a change of name to a more 'civil' name. There has been no effort for such a change of name by the Afghans.

In the last 46 years the Indian Government also has not even once demanded that the Afghan Government change such an insulting and barbaric name. But in July 1993, the Government of India asked the visiting Jerusalem Symphony Orchestra to change its name because the word Jerusalem in its name is offensive to Moslem Fundamentalists.

It is evident that Hindus from ancient India's (Hindustan's) border states such as Gandhaar and Vaahic Pradesh were massacred or taken as slaves by the Moslem invaders who named the region as Hindu Kush (or Hindu Slaughter,or Hindu Killer) to teach a lesson to the future Hindu generations of India. Unfortunately Hindus are not aware of this tragic history. The Indian government does not want the true history of Hindu Moslem conflicts during the medieval ages to be taught in schools. This policy of negationism is the cause behind the ignorance of Hindus about the Hindu Kush and the Hindu genocide

This article barely scratches the surface of the Hindu genocide, the true depth of which is as yet unknown.

More. Apologize for the long quotes. I think it is important to understand and refute that Breivik was not fascinated by Hindutva; rather it was just a part of his story.

The Muslim conquests, down to the 16th century, were for the Hindus a pure struggle of life and death. Entire cities were burnt down and the populations massacred, with hundreds of thousands killed in every campaign, and similar numbers deported as slaves. Every new invader made (often literally) his hills of Hindus skulls. Thus, the conquest of Afghanistan in the year 1000 was followed by the annihilation of the Hindu population; the region is still called the Hindu Kush, i.e. Hindu slaughter.

The Bahmani sultans (1347-1480) in central India made it a rule to kill 100,000 captives in a single day, and many more on other occasions. The conquest of the Vijayanagar Empire in 1564 left the capital plus large areas of Karnataka depopulated.

As a contribution to research on the quantity of the Islamic crimes against humanity, we may mention Prof. K.S. Lal's estimates about the population figures in medieval India (Growth of Muslim Population in India). According to his calculations, the Indian (subcontinent) population decreased by 80 million between 1000 (conquest of Afghanistan) and 1525 (end of Delhi Sultanate). But the Indian Pagans were far too numerous and never fully surrendered. What some call the Muslim period in Indian history, was in reality a continuous war of occupiers against resisters.

Against these rebellious Pagans the Muslim rulers preferred to avoid total confrontation, and to accept the compromise which the (in India dominant) Hanifite school of Islamic law made possible. Alone among the four Islamic law schools, the school of Hanifa gave Muslim rulers the right not to offer the Pagans the sole choice between death and conversion, but to allow them toleration as zimmis (protected ones) living under 20 humiliating conditions, and to collect the jizya (toleration tax) from them. Normally the zimmi status was only open to Jews and Christians (and even that concession was condemned by jurists of the Hanbalite school like lbn Taymiya), which explains why these communities have survived in Muslim countries while most other religions have not.

On these conditions some of the higher Hindu castes could be found willing to collaborate, so that a more or less stable polity could be set up. Even then, the collaboration of the Rajputs with the Moghul rulers, or of the Kayasthas with the Nawab dynasty, one became a smooth arrangement when enlightened rulers like Akbar (whom orthodox Muslims consider an apostate) cancelled these humiliating conditions and the jizya tax. It is because of Hanifite law that many Muslim rulers in India considered themselves exempted from the duty to continue the genocide on the Hindus (self-exemption for
which they were persistently reprimanded by their mullahs).

Moreover, the Turkish and Afghan invaders also fought each other, so they often had to ally themselves with accursed unbelievers against fellow Muslims. After the conquests, Islamic occupation gradually lost its character of a total campaign to destroy the Pagans. Many Muslim rulers preferred to enjoy the revenue from stable and prosperous kingdoms, and were content to extract the jizya tax, and to limit their conversion effort to material incentives and
support to the missionary campaigns of sufis and mullahs (in fact, for less zealous rulers, the jizya was an incentive to discourage conversions, as these would mean a loss of revenue). The Moghul dynasty (from 1526 onwards) in effect limited its ambition to enjoying the zimma system, similar to the treatment of Jews and Christians in the Ottoman empire. Muslim violence would thenceforth be limited to some slave-taking, crushing the numerous rebellions, destruction of temples and killing or humiliation of Brahmins, and occasional acts of terror by small bands of raiders. A left-over from this
period is the North-Indian custom of celebrating weddings at midnight: this was a safety measure against the Islamic sport of bride-catching.

[Bhaskar]

Excerpt from the manifesto that pertains to India. Breivik doesn't seem "fascinated" by Hinduism, as the Hindu claims, more as an example of what happens when Islamists have the upper hand. He is also critical of the dhimmitude of the Indian government.

Deliberate ignorance about Hindu Kush

If the name Hindu Kush relates such a horrible genocide of Hindus, why are Hindus ignorant about it? and why the Government of India does not teach them about Hindu Kush? The history and geography curriculum’s in Indian Schools barely even mention Hindu Kush. The horrors of the Jewish holocaust are taught not only in schools in Israel, Europe and USA, but also in Germany; because both Germany and Israel consider the Jewish holocaust a 'dark chapter' in the history. The Indian Government instead of giving details of this 'dark chapter' in Indian history is busy in whitewash of Moslem atrocities and the Hindu holocaust. In 1982, the National Council of Educational Research and Training issued a directive for the rewriting of school texts. Among other things it stipulated that: 'Characterisation of the medieval period as a time of conflict between Hindus and Moslems is forbidden'. Thus denial of history or Negationism has become India's official 'educational' policy (21).

Often the official governmental historians brush aside questions such as those that Hindu Kush raises. They argue that the British version is the product of their 'divide and rule' policy' hence their version is not necessarily true. However it must be remembered that the earliest reference of the name Hindu Kush and its literal meaning 'Hindu Killer' comes from Ibn Battutah in 1333 AD, and at that time British were nowhere on the Indian scene. Secondly, if the name indeed was a misnomer then the Afghans should have protested against such a barbaric name and the last 660 plus years should have been adequate for a change of name to a more 'civil' name. There has been no effort for such a change of name by the Afghans.

In the last 46 years the Indian Government also has not even once demanded that the Afghan Government change such an insulting and barbaric name. But in July 1993, the Government of India asked the visiting Jerusalem Symphony Orchestra to change its name because the word Jerusalem in its name is offensive to Moslem Fundamentalists.

It is evident that Hindus from ancient India's (Hindustan's) border states such as Gandhaar and Vaahic Pradesh were massacred or taken as slaves by the Moslem invaders who named the region as Hindu Kush (or Hindu Slaughter,or Hindu Killer) to teach a lesson to the future Hindu generations of India. Unfortunately Hindus are not aware of this tragic history. The Indian government does not want the true history of Hindu Moslem conflicts during the medieval ages to be taught in schools. This policy of negationism is the cause behind the ignorance of Hindus about the Hindu Kush and the Hindu genocide

This article barely scratches the surface of the Hindu genocide, the true depth of which is as yet unknown.

Amusing how the media calls him a "right-wing nationalist".



Then why the hell dose the media call the people who are behind Samjhauta "Hindu terrorists"?

..Well, they called Kasab a mujahideen (meaning "a struggler") then what can you expect...

[Fidel Guevara]

This is the only part where Breivik calls out to his "Hindu nationalist brothers", but again more in the vein of "enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Indian population:

Year Hindus/Sikhs Muslims Christians/others
1947 94%................5%..........1%
1978 85%..............14%........1,5%
2008 75%..............23%...........2%
2038 50%..............47%...........3%
2068 38%..............58%...........4%

In India as in Europe, the Global Islamic Ummah is continuing the ongoing demographic warfare and is seemingly successful. The India elites, just like European elites, are aiding and abetting the Muslim conquest by way of appeasement. If the development in India is allowed to continue and our Hindu Nationalist brothers do not rise up soon we will see a Muslim majority in India in 2035-2040.

For future reference; by Hindus we mean the Four Arms of the Dharma:- mainstream Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists and Jains. This is an unknown definition/concept to most Europeans; Sikhs are considered as a warrior sect of Sanatana Dharma. To a majority of Hindus; Sikhs, Buddhists and Jains are not a part of the minority but rather an integral part of Sanatana Dharma. However, anti-Dharmic, secularists and foreign media are bent upon separating each one into a separate religion. The British colonialists were the first who started to separate the four branches in order to play “divide and conquer” in which they succeeded.

This is where he starts showing his lunacy, talking about the Knights Templar...I included this here just to round out my research of references to Hinduism in the manifesto.

Launching crusades to counter ongoing Jihads (there are 20+ Jihad fronts around the world) is acceptable, but under no circumstances shall we attack or annex territory belonging to our fellow Christian brothers and sisters, or our Buddhist or Hindu allies. Hindus and Buddhists are considered brothers in our common fight against Jihadi imperialism, atrocities and genocides.

Some may have the impression that this guy was a white supremacist...after going through 200+ pages, I find no indication of this premise. A weirdo, yes, but not an overt racist.

[brihaspati]

While we worry about the threat to the civilized, refined "western" state and "demonic" influences that come from those abominable mud people from the land and people of cows, naked sadhus and snake-charmers known as evil yindoos - here is Vladimir Ilych Ulyanov writing fondly about how he plans the demise of the state and the vile minority called "capitalists" who in some sense were also responsible for the education his father and he - were able to obtain enabling him to learn and reshape "capitalist" wisdom.

Chapter 4, State and Revolution [c early 1917 - possibly drafted in hiding in Finland, from the social-democrat Russian gov after being helped to cross wartime Germany in a special train mediated by a "comrade" he would later liquidate in a purge-trial and planning the organizing of the violent overthrow of existing Russian state and liquidation of "class" enemies]

In the usual argument about the state, the mistake is constantly made against which Engels warned and which we have in passing indicated above, namely, it is constantly forgotten that the abolition of the state means also the abolition of democracy; that the withering away of the state means the withering away of democracy.

At first sight this assertion seems exceedingly strange and incomprehensible; indeed, someone may even suspect us of expecting the advent of a system of society in which the principle of subordination of the minority to the majority will not be observed - for democracy means the recognition of this very principle.

No, democracy is not identical with the subordination of the minority to the majority. Democracy is a state which recognizes the subordination of the minority to the majority, i.e., an organization for the systematic use of force by one class against another, by one section of the population against another.

We set ourselves the ultimate aim of abolishing the state, i.e., all organized and systematic violence, all use of violence against people in general. We do not expect the advent of a system of society in which the principle of subordination of the minority to the majority will not be observed.

Chapter 5,

But from this capitalist democracy - that is inevitably narrow and stealthily pushes aside the poor, and is therefore hypocritical and false through and through - forward development does not proceed simply, directly and smoothly, towards "greater and greater democracy", as the liberal professors and petty-bourgeois opportunists would have us believe. No, forward development, i.e., development towards communism, proceeds through the dictatorship of the proletariat, and cannot do otherwise, for the resistance of the capitalist exploiters cannot be broken by anyone else or in any other way.

And the dictatorship of the proletariat, i.e., the organization of the vanguard of the oppressed as the ruling class for the purpose of suppressing the oppressors, cannot result merely in an expansion of democracy. Simultaneously with an immense expansion of democracy, which for the first time becomes democracy for the poor, democracy for the people, and not democracy for the money-bags, the dictatorship of the proletariat imposes a series of restrictions on the freedom of the oppressors, the exploiters, the capitalists. We must suppress them in order to free humanity from wage slavery, their resistance must be crushed by force; it is clear that there is no freedom and no democracy where there is suppression and where there is violence.

Engels expressed this splendidly in his letter to Bebel when he said, as the reader will remember, that "the proletariat needs the state, not in the interests of freedom but in order to hold down its adversaries, and as soon as it becomes possible to speak of freedom the state as such ceases to exist".

Democracy for the vast majority of the people, and suppression by force, i.e., exclusion from democracy, of the exploiters and oppressors of the people - this is the change democracy undergoes during the transition from capitalism to communism.

[Prem]

A thought just jolted my joints. If the extreme anger among the gentle people of Europe has made this gentleman lost his mind to kill so many of his own in very cruel and stupid way then the Islamists better think about the Danda Chitrrol coming their way in Europe and other Civilized states. It wont be so long before this supressed anger spills over with some fare reaching civizliational consequenses.

[Agnimitra]

Some may have the impression that this guy was a white supremacist...after going through 200+ pages, I find no indication of this premise. A weirdo, yes, but not an overt racist.

Is it? From the WSJ article:

The gunman on the one hand suggests that Europe and the subcontinent should ally diplomatically and militarily over some sort of shared oppression by Islam, while on the other he suggests that “non-Muslim” Bangladeshis, Indians and Pakistanis would be good candidates for a serf class who would live in separate ghettos and work 12 hours a day to clean, garden, carry out construction and drive taxis for their European masters.

“This is not slavery as slavery is taking away peoples freedom,” he claimed.

Could you verify if that is really from Mr. Breivik's "manifesto"? If so, don't you think it is overtly racist enough? Or is this "concession" to invite non-Moslem SDRE guest workers into Europe a redeeming feature of his anti-islamist vision? It looks like associating with and trying to get one's own legitimate purposes to ride piggyback on a Western psychotic killer's manifesto is a tendency peculiar to the Tejo Mahalay types. Saner types would rather not risk it. Westerners since the last century can afford to take up open and even indiscriminate hostilities against certain nations that we simply cannot. Hence the need for more genuine and nuanced approaches from our side.

[vera_k]

Way I look at it, there's something wrong with European society this last century. You had one extreme with Hitler and his cronies, which they compensated for by moving to the other end of the spectrum with extreme multiculturalism and permissiveness. So perhaps the next thing to expect is another Hitler type episode in Europe.

[A_Gupta]

The gunman on the one hand suggests that Europe and the subcontinent should ally diplomatically and militarily over some sort of shared oppression by Islam, while on the other he suggests that “non-Muslim” Bangladeshis, Indians and Pakistanis would be good candidates for a serf class who would live in separate ghettos and work 12 hours a day to clean, garden, carry out construction and drive taxis for their European masters.

“This is not slavery as slavery is taking away peoples freedom,” he claimed.

Could you verify if that is really from Mr. Breivik's "manifesto"? If so, don't you think it is overtly racist enough? Or is this "concession" to invite non-Moslem SDRE guest workers into Europe a redeeming feature of his anti-islamist vision?

Extensive quote here (page 1196/1518)

Future servant class

It would be logical to use cheap foreign labour especially within the construction sector. These workers should be given 12 month “focus contracts” and must return to their country of origin after the term has ended. Focus contracts involve working up to 12 hours per day. These individuals will be offered competitive wages (compared to their country of origin).

One of the primary arguments for modern mass immigration is to justify the demand for labour, jobs the indigenous Europeans are unwilling to take. Now, who will take these jobs when we have halted immigration completely and deported all the Muslims?

The problem with the current model of mass immigration is that every individual, depending on country, is awarded citizenship within 7 years. The children of these first generation immigrants are not interested in the jobs the parent generation took so we have to accept even more immigration to fill in these gaps every two decades. It develops into a never ending spiral of mass immigration which eventually leads to a situation where the indigenous people end up as a minority.

The following solution will provide a servant class covering the following professions:
- Cleaning
- Construction work
- Gardening
- Taxis
- Farming/harvesting

6-12 month “focus contracts” will be offered to individuals from Bangladesh, Pakistan and India (these services may be reserved for Christians, Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists considering our Hostile stance towards the global Islamic Ummah). These will be flown in in bulk every month and will leave at the end of the contract. During their stay they will work 12 hours a day for the duration of their contracts (6 or 12 months) and are then flown back to their homelands. There should be at least a 6 month quarantine period between every 12 month contract to prevent the individuals from becoming too culturally attached.

These individuals will live in segregated communities in pre-defined areas of each major city and must be provided free medical services, free housing in restricted barrack towns and subsidised food /essentials and subsidised transportation costs. This will allow them to return with a larger portion of their salary. They will be compensated at a rate equivalent to 300% of what they would have earned in their country of origin.

F example, if they would have earned 200 Euro per month in Bangladesh they will earn 600 Euro here.

This might sound cynical to especially females (this is not slavery as slavery is taking away peoples freedom) but it is in fact much more generous than what currently Arab countries (Saudi Arabia, Dubai, UAE etc.) are offering their guest workers from Bangladesh, India, Pakistan and the Philippines. More than 90 per cent of the total UAE workforce is made up of foreigners (mainly from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh). None of the foreigners are granted citizenship but usually work on 12 month contracts with very low wages. Furthermore, these arrangements are not very different from what the southern states in the US are currently offering Latin American guest workers.

Most importantly, large scale implementation of these “guest worker” arrangements will prove to be a very efficient source of cheap labour and these arrangements can be easily regulated to accommodate bull and bear markets. Because there will be recessions or slow periods when we will need many of these jobs for our own people while there may be economical booms which will involve increased use of these arrangements.

The economical impacts of extensive usage of these “guest worker” arrangements will have significant impacts on the competitiveness of our civilisation, our economic zone and will ensure that we will have the required funds (20% of GDP) to channel into science, research and development (and of course to secure this scientific capital from theft from non-EF countries).
It will allow us to become the economical powerhouse of the world and the beacon of light for all humanity. It will allow us to contribute significantly to the furtherance of mankind.

[A_Gupta]

Further quote: 1228/1518

The genetical affiliation to your tribe is your most valuable commodity in this world, true or false?

We know that the cultural Marxist elites in Western Europe have created an adoption system which facilitates the adoption of Asians and Africans but makes the adoption of European babies more or less impossible. Not only are absolutely all European countries significantly influenced by Marxism (matriarchy leads to low birth rates, while Asia and Africa still has patriarchy leading to high birth rates) but it would seem like there is a deliberate agenda of attempting to genetically dilute our tribe by systematical facilitation of adoption from Asia and Africa. After all, how are the cultural Marxists going to create a one world utopia unless they deliberately annihilate, through gradual dilution, the European tribes?

So why is tribalism and our ethnic heritage so important?

Despite what the Marxists would like to believe, our genetical heritage is the most important cultural marker as it is a visual proof that you represent a certain culture, certain traditions, a certain identity. How you look will in a blink of an eye tell people a thousand things about you, who your ancestors where, tells you a lot about your mentality, and your countries or regions achievements the last few years. These thousands of pieces of information is forwarded by the blink of an eye to another individual. If you however do not have any genetical affiliation, people will only be left with a lot of questions. Where are you from, are you Muslim, are you a tourist, what culture do you represent, are you an integrated individual, are you an assimilated individual, are you the new imported servant class or are you adopted?

This is what most people ask themselves when they meet an individual. I would f example instantly know, from recognition, that another person is an undiluted Norwegian or not and most other people would as well.

Preferentialism based on looks and ethnic origin is the rule for 80-90% of Europeans

People who are familiar with “the game”; the socio-economic rat race where looks, culture and economy are the deciding factors know how the unwritten rules work. We say something, some politically correct BS like it’s the inside that counts, or that all ethnic groups are equal, but we don’t really mean it. The only reason lie publicly and even to our friends is because our countries are ruled by a Marxist entity and we are not allowed to say the truth. Social-darwinism was the norm before the 1950. Back then, it was allowed to say what we feel. Now, however, we have to disguise our preferences to avoid the horrible consequences of being labeled as a genetical preferentialist.

Many people I know who supports mass-Muslim immigration (by voting on political parties in support of multiculturalism) deliberately avoids living with Muslims, simply because they don’t like them. But they still support mass-Muslim immigration. I like to confront these people with direct questions; Why do you support mass-Muslim immigration when you would never consider living with them, or at least living in the same neighborhood with them? Doesn’t that make you a hypocrite?

The reaction is always the same; their face turns red, and they have no clue what to say. Totally busted. I then try to argue that they should vote for a political party which opposes multiculturalism if they, personally, are not interested in taking the responsibility for the effects of given ideology. Despite all my good arguments; the success rate for converting these politically correct individuals into voting for a conservative party, is quite low – lower than 20%. They have simply been brainwashed and thoroughly indoctrinated by the Labour party state to not think those thoughts, so they do agree with you most of the time, but they are afraid of admitting it.

Furthermore, all of the people I know personally (my extended network, through a lifetime), in Oslo West, have adopted a multicultural image which they like to portray publicly. It’s kind of like a t-shirt they take on when they wake up and go outside, leaving their true self behind. It’s very hot to be tolerant, after all, like Madonna and Brangelina... The hypocrisy of these people is limitless though, as I know for a fact that not a single one of them would ever procreate outside our ethnic group. But expecting them to admit to these facts publicly would be too naïve. Because 90% of Europeans choose to follow their instincts, camouflaging their true feelings in order to survive in this Marxist world.

Then we have the 10% Europeans, women and men, who choose to fully embrace the Marxist rule of procreating with Asians and Africans. What will happen to them and their offspring when we reach phase 2 or 3 of the European civil war is unknown. It is not unlikely that they may be labeled as traitors as large parts of the population. People should try to understand the psychology behind this. In peacetime, your ethnic affiliation is important. However, in wartime, your ethnic affiliation is extremely important and might ensure your survival.

Let’s take an example; if the multiculturalist elites of Europe manage to suppress us efficiently and prevent us from seizing power the next 6 decades we will reach a situation where the Muslims will be in a majority in ALL European major cities. And when they get confident enough, war will break out (similar scenario to the Lebanon war Christians vs Muslims). At this point in time the economy has already collapsed and chaos and lawlessness reigns. The national militaries have dissolved because the multiculturalist government fled to another country to prevent being lynched. Noone was left to pay the army salaries so most of the soldiers created local militia groups protecting their neighbourhoods. These types of conflicts are extremely brutal and everything is either black or white. All individuals that look like Muslims will be gunned down, and they will gun down all who look like indigenous Europeans. Being an Asian or African under these conditions must be hard because most people will believe them to be Muslims. It is likely that they may end up as outcasts not accepted by either the Europeans or the Muslims. They may be deported, accidentally shot or deliberately killed by conservatives that are much less liberal than the “peace-time auto-gear European” is today.

The preservation of your ethnic affiliation is likely to be the greatest gift you can ever bestow upon your offspring as it will ensure their survival the next 70 years. Being hip, by mimicking Madonna or Angelina may be fatal to your offspring. Because I can guarantee the following; the European civil war has barely begun, and what is politically correct today, is likely to be seen as an absurdity during times of great hardship.

So think long term, be smart and never consider abandoning the ethnic affiliation to your tribe. If you do, it is a chance that you will end up making a decision that can prove to be fatal for yourself or for your children.

[Manny]

What he is suggesting about worker visas is not very different than Mexican farm workers here in the US. He is also right about the middle east Muslim countries using labor force from South Asia.

[A_Gupta]

Page 1229/1518

Imported non-European minorities are disloyal nation wreckers! True or false?

To claim that the above statement is a falsehood would require that minorities assimilated fully and were supportive of views and principles propagated by the European majority. So what is cultural and political assimilation? Full assimilation would mean that the imported minorities were supportive of the above including the support to the same political parties as the one(s) favoured by the Europeans. In other words; they would vote on the same parties the majority voted on and that they would have the same loyalty to the values and principles that the majority had.

So is this the case with Muslims, Jews, Hindus and non-European Christians? For them to be looked upon as equals (as a part of the Europeans extended family), it would be required that they supported the same values and principles that the majority represented. This is simply not possible if the primary motivations for emigrating are economical. Why would they give up their religion/ideology or culture if they are not expected to? A Pashtun didn’t come because he was interested in being separated from his extended Pashtun family (his ethnic group). He came because there was a high probability that he would be able to acquire funds easily, funds which then would be channeled back to his REAL family, the Pashtuns.

The relevancy of your ethnic group will always be important as we view our ethnic group as our extended family. This goes for all ethnic groups whether they are European, Pashtun, Arab, Rom, Berber-Arab, Somali, Indian, Japanese or South Korean. The Marxist claims that ethnicity is irrelevant or should be made irrelevant goes against human nature and natural laws. It is nothing more than a utopian dream which will never be achieved. Trying to forcefully achieve this objective by mass importing different non- European cultures will achieve nothing more than creating a new dysfunctional Afghanistan with eternal war.

The only three exception I am aware of, where ethnic group is only superseded by another factor (religion) are the so called Bosniaks (which are Muslim Serbs) , Pakistanis (which are Muslim Indians) and Turks (which are primarily Muslim Greeks and Armenians).

So back to the question: how can we expect many minorities to be loyal to OUR extended family when they are still loyal to THEIR OWN. Firstly, why on earth would we want to go down that path, secondly; assimilation requires 100% loyalty. You cannot call yourself assimilated if you are culturally, politically and ethnically loyal to another group/culture/ideology then that of your hosts. And this is where multiculturalism fails miserably, as the ideology propagates a non-demand policy. The predominant doctrine seems to be: “do what you want, we won’t demand anything and we don’t care if you’re disloyal as long as you pay your tax and don’t commit any crimes. Please go ahead; invest in your “other” fatherland and feel free to channel funds back to your “other” extended family”. This principle of “tolerance” is really nothing more than a suicidal or genocidal policy.

[A_Gupta]

One last: page 1232/1518

Europe should never encourage or facilitate the African (or Asian) cowards and traitors whom attempt to abandon their people and their own struggle and conflict. Rewarding cowardice will only establish a destructive precedence which will result in a cultivation of the coward’s mentality. This short sighted bleeding heart policy is one of several important causes for both Africa’s and Europe’s problems.

As the third world resident learns that there is no hope of immigrating to Europe he will begin to look inwards and start to contribute to solve the issues in his own country. As soon as we, the cultural conservatives, seize military and political control of Western Europe in the coming decades, we will begin to implement these principles and help Europe and Africa by enforcing a policy based on pragmatism and logic. As such; we will immediately halt current bleeding heart policies which directly cause many of the problems we see in Africa and other third world countries today.

Segregation in combination with a complete halt in aid and facilitating the African governments to implement nationalistic doctrines are in fact the best African strategy. Policies like these are in fact the most anti-racist approach of all as it clearly defines the new responsibilities and limitations. Because with responsibilities and limitations, comes opportunity. Nevertheless, people who are very short sighted will consider these policies quite cynical or darwinistic. However, long term, it is the most humanistic and responsible approach.

In contrast to today’s policies; the current African policies represent processes of “clientification”. Africans and African nations are treated with the utmost contempt, very similar to how drug addicts on the streets of Western Europe are treated today. The current African policies are very racist and contribute to hold Africa and Africans back by taking what little pride they have left away from them.

[Fidel Guevara]

Some may have the impression that this guy was a white supremacist...after going through 200+ pages, I find no indication of this premise. A weirdo, yes, but not an overt racist.

Is it? From the WSJ article:

The gunman on the one hand suggests that Europe and the subcontinent should ally diplomatically and militarily over some sort of shared oppression by Islam, while on the other he suggests that “non-Muslim” Bangladeshis, Indians and Pakistanis would be good candidates for a serf class who would live in separate ghettos and work 12 hours a day to clean, garden, carry out construction and drive taxis for their European masters.

“This is not slavery as slavery is taking away peoples freedom,” he claimed.

Could you verify if that is really from Mr. Breivik's "manifesto"? If so, don't you think it is overtly racist enough? Or is this "concession" to invite non-Moslem SDRE guest workers into Europe a redeeming feature of his anti-islamist vision? It looks like associating with and trying to get one's own legitimate purposes to ride piggyback on a Western psychotic killer's manifesto is a tendency peculiar to the Tejo Mahalay types. Saner types would rather not risk it. Westerners since the last century can afford to take up open and even indiscriminate hostilities against certain nations that we simply cannot. Hence the need for more genuine and nuanced approaches from our side.

Ah, yes, haven't got to that part yet. If this was really written by him (and not incorporated from his supporters' contributions without proof-reading), then that does reek of racism. However, there isn't much of that in the serious discussions, where I was focusing.

This guy might also be schizophrenic though. There are pages of well-researched material, written in coherent language, and then he veers off into his lunatic idea of the Knights Templar and the minutiae of the organization. Really sounds like two different people.

The racist piece could be from the loony side, as it sounds out of character for the "sane" Breivik.

"need for a more nuanced approach from our side" - Why try that approach with a rabid dog that we know is going to eat us in the near-medium term?

[vera_k]

What is the history of government in Norway? Have they had right wing governments?

Most of what Brevik has written about guest workers tallies with what is heard from and acted upon by US Republicans. Perhaps the reason that Brevik erupted is that that while the Republican party is allowed to have power from time to time, their Norwegian equivalents are not?

[A_Gupta]

IMO, Breivik avoids overt racism in that he doesn't (so far as I read) explicitly call other people inferior. But on the other hand, he constructs an ethno-phobia that would make an Indian living in his Europe feel like a Hindu living among the Taliban.

Among uniting principles for Europe, he mentions as "more extreme principles"

More extreme principles
- Support for the banning of the Quran and the Hadith (as these books propagate violence, genocide and war against all non-Muslims).
- Disallow mosques in Europe as long as Christians are not allowed to build Churches in Saudi Arabia and other Islamic countries.
- Support the dismantlement of Protestantism in the Nordic countries, the UK, Germany (replacing it with Catholicism).

As far as most Europeans are concerned, the first two won't really affect them. But
as far as I know, historically, the Protestant-Catholic fight was very bloody; North Ireland is in part at least a Protestant-Catholic fight; this last is something Europe would not want to repeat. Yet Brievik suggests it.

[Arjun]

Thanks to A_Gupta for the relevant sections quoted above.

While Brevik was clearly a psycopath and his actions need to be condemned in the strongest terms, the limited question of whether he is a racist / supremacist is quite interesting.

Based on the sections quoted, my conclusion would be that Brevik is NOT a supremacist. His vision of Europe is clearly oriented towards favoring the indigenous European race - but it seems to me that he is being reciprocal about it - ie he would support the same policies being implemented by other countries / races globally. So, in effect he is calling for all nations to become 'less multicultural' and privilege their own race / religion over those of others. Whether that is a practical solution or not is a different issue, & I don't necessarily agree with the concept in its entirety. But the one inference it does lead to is that he is not a 'supremacist' in the traditional sense.

[shiv]

The gunman on the.... suggests that “non-Muslim” Bangladeshis, Indians and Pakistanis would be good candidates for a serf class who would live in separate ghettos and work 12 hours a day to clean, garden, carry out construction and drive taxis for their European masters.[/b]

“This is not slavery as slavery is taking away peoples freedom,” he claimed.[/q]

This idea was thought of and implemented centuries ago but went out of fashion and it was thought convenient to say that one particular religion was responsible for the idea. All humans it was said , are equal. Full circle. It seems.

[RajeshA]

There are pages of well-researched material, written in coherent language, and then he veers off into his lunatic idea of the Knights Templar and the minutiae of the organization. Really sounds like two different people.

The racist piece could be from the loony side, as it sounds out of character for the "sane" Breivik.

"need for a more nuanced approach from our side" - Why try that approach with a rabid dog that we know is going to eat us in the near-medium term?

The Knights Templar bit is of course an effort by Anders Behring Breivik to rekindle a phase of European History which many in Europe associate it with both nobility as well as willingness to confront Islam. Moreover it was a trans-European phenomenon, where all Europeans came together and fought Islam. There is nothing lunatic there as such. He is simply using powerful symbolism.

As far as Breiviks commentary on races is concerned, he suffers a bit from a static thinking, and there is a reason for it.

His focus has remained on both the cultural history of Europe and the European economic and technological supremacy of the last 4 centuries. He seems to not wish to fathom the consequences of the migration of economic, technological and military power to Asia

His views of Asia and Africa remain that of poor regions of the world, dependent on European generosity and indulgence. One reason is probably because Norway is indeed a very rich country, richer than most European countries, and somehow he is projecting that level of prosperity both across the whole continent as well as across eternity.

Indian unskilled labor for the Gulf is a temporary phenomenon and in the next 30 years would come down to naught. It is presumptive of him to expect Indians to be washing European toilets and cleaning streets, etc. He does seem to genuinely be giving some thought to the labor shortages in Europe, but he shouldn't expect Indians to be standing in line, just to clean the streets of Europe.

[Dhiman]

Thanks to A_Gupta for the relevant sections quoted above.

While Brevik was clearly a psycopath and his actions need to be condemned in the strongest terms, the limited question of whether he is a racist / supremacist is quite interesting.

Based on the sections quoted, my conclusion would be that Brevik is NOT a supremacist. His vision of Europe is clearly oriented towards favoring the indigenous European race - but it seems to me that he is being reciprocal about it - ie he would support the same policies being implemented by other countries / races globally. So, in effect he is calling for all nations to become 'less multicultural' and privilege their own race / religion over those of others. Whether that is a practical solution or not is a different issue, & I don't necessarily agree with the concept in its entirety. But the one inference it does lead to is that he is not a 'supremacist' in the traditional sense.

Norway has a population of 4 million people, out of which less than 100,000 (~ 2% are Muslims). Basically the country is so completely depopulated that one would be hard pressed to find people walking on the street, let alone find a Muslim walking on the streets of Norway.

Also, Islamic extremism has never been a problem in Norway. So, this guy is clearly delusional. In order to justify his insane violence, he first creates a grievance where there is none and then actually goes around shooting his own community based on that.

[RajeshA]

Norway has a population of 4 million people, out of which less than 100,000 (~ 2% are Muslims). Also, Islamic extremism has never been a problem in Norway. So, this guy is clearly delusional. In order to justify his insane violence, he first creates a grievance where there is none and then actually goes around shooting his own community based on that.

It is the pattern of distribution of the Muslim population in Norway. Oslo West has practically been taken over by the Muslims. There is also a lot of intimidation by Muslim gangs and several cases of rape of Norwegian girls at the hands of these gangs. This gives the Muslim population a far bigger profile than their percentage in the population.

There is nothing manufactured about the grievance.

[Dhiman]

It is the pattern of distribution of the Muslim population in Norway. Oslo West has practically been taken over by the Muslims. There is also a lot of intimidation by Muslim gangs and several cases of rape of Norwegian girls at the hands of these gangs. This gives the Muslim population a far bigger profile than their percentage in the population.

There is nothing manufactured about the grievance.

Yes, too bad the world isn't perfect and homogeneous enough for this guys lunatic mindset. By the way, Oslo has a Muslim population of 10%.

[Aditya_V]

So, finally the story's been picked on WSJ

Norway Gunman Fascinated by Hindu Nationalism

Thank you Hindu

What he said was right however, what he did was wrong and disgusting.
Now the media is going to turn this into a Sangh Parivar conspiracy story.... Just wait and watch. They will talk about this Norwegian guy and explain this is how dangerous "Saffron" terror is. Keep watching the news, there would be some laughable material in it in the coming weeks when big congress leaders will come in on an NDTV special and say how what happened in Norway is an example of what we can see next if BJP gets the power.

Bhaskar this all good because doing somthing like this exposes thier agenda to lot more people, those who were giving them benfit of doubt and fence sitters will also know of such agenda's.

The Answer to such allegations is simple-Many Paki leaders, GHQ PIndi Khakis , Miltant Leaders(includign even L-E-T), Maoists, CHinese, EJ's have praised UPA Chairperson and leadership, wound't it be ridiculous to say that they are linked to all these nice people.

[Lalmohan]

lets be careful with this far-right interest in hindutva, i see it as a form of taqiya - enemies enemy is my friend. in the first phase the far-right want to combat islam, in the next phase they want a reversion to racially cohesive homelands that mind their own business. we have to separate in our minds the first and the second objectives. the far right in europe, especially the north - plus their birathers in north america are into this whole nordic race superiority thing a la nazis. breivik - and his co-conspirators/terrorists are looking for intellectual justification and support for their acts.

these people are no friends of ours - as dangerous as the jehadis.

that said, i do believe that multi-culturalism in europe has gone too far and needs to be scaled back. its never going to go away - most of the major capitals are vibrant 'global' cities - richer for the variety of cultures and influences in them from around the world, but if the city starts to lose its own home culture, then the locals will react. just as they do in india in some cases.

breivik wants his day in court and a platform to rant from. he's not going to get the latter. what he did was totally unacceptable. i am slightly disturbed to see some sympathy for his pov on BRF

[Theo_Fidel]

Guys you are picking through the mind of a person whose grasp of cause and effect, reality and paranoia was extremely tenuous. I don't think he is crazy. But he has spent too much time inside his own mind. Definitely touched by entropy.

Nietzsche

"Battle not with Demons but that you become one, and if you gaze into the Abyss, the Abyss too must gaze into you."

Oddly this guy is likely to have his dreams come true.

Christian literalism is moving to gradually deny space to others. They rarely approach this thing directly. They just make it harder and harder till it becomes impossible. Similar to Abortion or federal Marijuana cultivation (not illegal) banned by requiring a tax stamp that is never produced. The pieces they are attacking are religious centers and immigration. TSP style immigration controls are coming to all fairly soon. The era of free population movement is coming to a close.

[Aditya_V]

The era of free population movement is coming to a close.

That only applied to Noth America, South America, Australasia, AFrica and Asia for Europeans to Travel a few centuries ago.

In North America, South America and Australia European settlers used larger demographics to Slaughter natives to take over thier land and make them an insignificant minority and then impose the strictest Visa controls to stop Asians In, and then claim to be champions of Human Rights.

In fact the new European, AUstralian and American Visa regime is the strongest form of untouchability practised in the world today. Remember an article about a couple from Bangalore who en route to visiting thier son in Finland but were deported back at Paris Airport since 'They Looked too Poor to visit Finland', it is like treating the poor of developing countries as basically untouchables who should be kept in thier Ghettos.

See the irony here.

[Philip]

For humanity to survive,our behaviour must be civilised and "jaw,jaw" is infinitely better than "war,war".It is only in the most extreme cases when a nation is victim of agression or has to act pre-emptively to prevent a great catastrophe,that one should take up arms.Individual citizens should be baneed from taking up arms ,access to arms as is so easy in most of the west,leading to the acts of psycopaths and the lunatic fringe like outr latter-day "crusader".The tragedy is that the so-called "civilised" west,which preaches the virtue of democracy ad nauseum,uses this excuse to invade other nations and demand societal and economic change of nations to fit in with western economic models,forgetting their violent past record of colonialism and imperialist agression.Ask the Chinese about the Opium Wars or India about the export of slave labour to run plantations across the globe (just as our "crusader" has advocated for his untermenschen ,the act of which still resonates in nations like Fiji and Lanka.This stems from an asinine racist ideology which if you scratch the soil of Europe a few inches only,will bring it to the surface in all its savagery as Anders has shwown us.

Sadly,Anders is not alone and there are any who will in time to come try to emulate him.The Dear Lord forbid that the US fanatics in the Tea party fringe of the Republicans do not enter the White House..

More on Brevik's UK connections.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... tacts.html

Breivik emailed 'manifesto' to 250 British contacts
Anders Breivik told members of the English Defence League to “keep up the good work” before terror attack.