Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2011

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Ravi Karumanchiri » 01 Aug 2011 05:56

I was just watching 'HBO Canada' (a satellite TV channel from the US), and they had an ad for an upcomming HBO series called 'Strike Back'.

I wasn't paying full attention, but the premise of the show seems to be about a squad of kick-ass Americans battling terrorists. In the ad, the one Khan says "the Pakistani terrorist Latif", and another Khan says something about "working undercover in Pakistan"; all within a 15 second commercial.

I've never heard "Pakistan" or "Pakistani" mentionned in this context before, at least not in any American production.

Could this be yet another sign of the 'sea change' we've been anticipating (/doubting)?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Suppiah » 01 Aug 2011 06:46

For sure the narrative is changing...Was reading an article in Financial Times (printed, no source) the other day at Changi airport - in an article on debt deal, which has nothing to do with TSP or even terrorism, the author talks about how Republicans are finding themselves in same position as TSP which nurtured the Taliban only to be taken over by it. The comparison was with Tea Party activism..

So TSP=Taliban=Terrorism is getting into folklore. As we know that takes 100s of years to erase...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby SSridhar » 01 Aug 2011 06:52

Philip wrote:"Pak,an ally by any other name".

That absence of self-reflection and re-assessment suggests "an inability to adapt to policy failure--- definition that surely applies to the Bin Laden debacle".

Therefore,Pak will change behaviour little . . .

Philip, thanks for your summary of Dr. Tim Hoyt's article which is otherwise not available for non-members of USNI (may be in the future as an archive) and for your excellent comments on the same.

Specifically with respect to the quoted part above, Pakistan does not view anything as a 'policy failure', rather a vindication of its policy. Its policy is India must be re-conquered. The elite want to re-conquer it for one reason and the Islamists for another reason but they converge on the re-conquering part. It is not the Pakistani 'fear' of a much larger and inimical India. It is not a 'security paranoia' as the Pakistanis explain away their obsession with us to gullible foreign countries and their diplomats. What the American analysts fail to see or pretend not to see is this most fundamental rage among all groups of Pakistanis, whether Army officers, foot soldiers, elite, common folk, Islamists, Punjabi Taliban, politicians or sectarian terrorists. Any other Pakistani relationship with any other country is therefore subject to be viewed through the Indian prism. Successive Pakistani actions since the early 50s when the US and Pakistan forged their 'special' relationship should have taught the Americans lessons. It is therefore difficult to believe that they do not understand this.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Rangudu » 01 Aug 2011 06:55


SSridhar
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby SSridhar » 01 Aug 2011 06:56

Rangudu, thanks.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby menon s » 01 Aug 2011 09:04

Beautiful Article on Indias New Foreign secretary : Ranjan Mathai.
The importance of this article, is to be an eye opener for Pakistanis, who always maintain the propaganda that India has been a bully in the neighborhood. Ranjan has been the chief architect of Ganga Water treaty with Bangladesh, which is considered to be on of the best examples of mutual co operation in South Asia.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110801/j ... 316140.jsp

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby sum » 01 Aug 2011 09:07

14 killed as attacks, blasts rock Xinjiang region

At least 10 people were killed and dozens injured following knife-attacks and blasts in China's far-western Silk Road city of Kashgar on Saturday and Sunday, in the latest incidence of violence to hit the frontier Xinjiang region.

The official Xinhua news agency reported four people were also shot dead by police, after an eruption of violence in downtown Kashgar on Sunday afternoon saw “rioters” attack pedestrians and police officers, leaving at least three killed and 10 injured.

Sunday's violence followed a knife attack on Saturday night, which left seven people killed and 28 others injured, according to Xinhua.

Xinhua also reported that a series of explosions, two on Saturday night and another on Sunday, had rocked the city, but left unclear whether there were any casualties. The violence follows a July 21 attack on a police station in Hotan, which left at least 18 people killed. The attack was first blamed by the government on rioters, but later described as “a severely violent terrorism case”.

The government has blamed the unrest on separatist and terrorist groups. Xinjiang has also seen intermittent ethnic unrest between the native Uighur Muslim population and increasing number of migrants of China's majority Han Chinese ethnic group.

Xinhua said Saturday attack had been caused by two “rioters” who had hijacked a truck, stabbing its driver and then “ramming into pedestrians”. The two suspects then “jumped out of the truck and hacked the passers-by”, leaving six people killed and 28 injured. One of the attackers was also killed.

A later report said “two blasts” were heard before the incident at the same location where the truck was hijacked, without saying whether there were further casualties. Xinhua reported another blast was heard on Sunday in downtown Kashgar, with three people, including one police officer, killed.


Kashgar, which lies a few hours' away from border with Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) along the Karakoram Highway, was also the scene of an attack on a police station in August 2008, which left 16 police officers dead.

Beijing has blamed separatist groups, such as the East Turkestan Islamic Movement, of stirring unrest in the city. It has recently announced plans to boost development in Kashgar and other cities in southern Xinjiang, which have lagged the rest of the region.

Poaki IT exports to tallest friend going well!!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Chinmayanand » 01 Aug 2011 09:14

" /http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=106420 "

—The writer is international security, current affairs analyst and a former PAF Assistant Chief of Air Staff.
---------------------------
America-Pakistan-India triangle
Pakistan’s ambassador to the United States, who ironically enjoys the reputation of being American ambassador to Pakistan, based in Washington, has recently quipped, “The most hated country in Pakistan is our top trading partner, top aid donor, top weapon supplier and top remittance source”. Significant reason behind this anomaly is the snowballing India-US nexus at the cost of Pakistan. De-hyphenating of India-Pakistan in American strategic calculus has indeed created more problems for America and this region than it intended to resolve. Obsession to sponsor the rise of India as a major player on Asian geopolitical canvas has severely curtailed American leverage over India; Obama dare not pronounce ‘K’ for Kashmir once again!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Airavat » 01 Aug 2011 09:56

sum wrote:
At least 10 people were killed and dozens injured following knife-attacks and blasts in China's far-western Silk Road city of Kashgar on Saturday and Sunday, in the latest incidence of violence to hit the frontier Xinjiang region.


Poaki IT exports to tallest friend going well!!

China blames attack on Pakistan terrorists

The Kashgar authorities said in a statement on their website that initial investigations found that the perpetrators of one attack learned explosive-making skills in terrorist-run camps in Pakistan.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Dilbu » 01 Aug 2011 09:58

Terrorist camps in TSP? No way biladels. Only liers and enemies of the party like India make such claims. :roll:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby ramana » 01 Aug 2011 09:58

We need to educate Tim Hoytt about the kabila concept and how such kabilas were broken in the past: Arabs, Ottoman Turks, many Sultanates in India.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Chinmayanand » 01 Aug 2011 10:02

China blames Muslim extremists for attack in Xinjiang

"A group of religious extremists led by culprits trained in overseas terrorist camps were behind the weekend attack," a Kashgar government statement said.

An initial police investigation found that the leaders of the group behind the attack had learned about explosives and firearms in Pakistan at a camp of the separatist "East Turkestan Islamic Movement," it said.

---------
Why do the Chinese think that pakis will double cross only the amrikans not the hans ?
9/11 in US brought plenty of dollars and free weapons from US , so pakis may have some similiar designs on China too. They both deserve each other. :mrgreen:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby disha » 01 Aug 2011 10:21

Chinmayanand wrote:Why do the Chinese think that pakis will double cross only the amrikans not the hans ?
9/11 in US brought plenty of dollars and free weapons from US , so pakis may have some similiar designs on China too. They both deserve each other. :mrgreen:


Will it bring supply of more pigs to bakistan? I would say that China has right to protect its claimed territory and should go after the camps, be it in POK or in Punjab or in Sindh on hot pursuit. If it ends up in sending a million Chineese into the bakistani territory, the better. India should encourage all peaceful talks between baki based non-state actors and their proxies in xinjiang and the diplomats from beijing over pigs-in-blankets and hot chai.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Narad » 01 Aug 2011 10:26

Chinmayanand wrote:" /http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=106420 "

The writer is international security, current affairs analyst and a former PAF Assistant Chief of Air Staff.

America frequently partners Indian effort in maintaining a high pitched tirade against Pakistan’s armed force and the ISI; this has scaled new heights since the cowardly Abbottabad attack.


:rotfl:

Whatever gives them pain in their musharrafs is a cowardly act.

Inner Pakistaniyat in full display.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Suppiah » 01 Aug 2011 11:45

Chinmayanand wrote:" /http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=106420 "

—The writer is international security, current affairs analyst and a former PAF Assistant Chief of Air Staff.
---------------------------
America-Pakistan-India triangle

India needs to understand that militants are well-organised from Somalia to Afghanistan and from Central Asian Republics to the Occupied Kashmir. International security analysts are already predicting that India is on the brink of becoming a battle ground of these trans-national groups.[/b] Outreach of these elements is much broader than Pakistan’s logical capacity to handle them; even America is unable to contain them. Pakistan has already proposed setting up of SAARC police for pooling up regional resources for this purpose.

...

It remains for India and Pakistan not to get locked into a zero sum game. Both countries need to strengthen their bilateral institutions to absorb the sporadic crises and move on.


Clear signs of begging, towel throwing here...becoming a popular passtime with Pakbaric animals once Unkil heats the rod and turns it into the musharraf...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Dipanker » 01 Aug 2011 11:53

The impact of Osama killing in Abbottabad will linger a very long time on the Paki psyche. Here is this nation supposedly a citadel of Islam, and still was not able to protect the great Shaikh.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Philip » 01 Aug 2011 12:02

The Chinese are playing their favourite game of building up such a formidable capability,military and economic,that the "cherry" inevitably falls into their hands without their having to pluck it.India has to guard itself from becoming a "frontline state" against China,as Pak was during the days of Zia when the Soviets intervened in Afghanistan.Uncle Sam will use us just as it used Pak and then discarded it like a used condom! India's strategy against China should be "more of the same".We must beef up our military capability,3% of our GDP,extra when required ,so that the PRC never has an overwhelming military capability that might tempt it to "teach India another lesson" as was done in '62.The PRC must be made to realise that it would be better "having India inside the tent,pissing out,rather than outside,pissing in"!
The SCO with India as a full member should be a first step towards regional cooperation,but in the reckoning,Indo-China relationswill turn for the better ONLLY when the border dispute is settled.It is the only border dispute in Asia that remains unresolved,apart from the spat about the Spratlys with the Indo-China Sea littoral nations.

Pak meanwhile if as most informed observers are predicting will NOT change course as long as the Paki military is at the helm of that nation's affairs.Devilry and diabolic acts will continue to be used by Pak against India and the ROW.Therefore,that nation's fissiparious tendencies must be encouraged if Pak remains a rogue nation,rebellious and uncouth .Baluchistan,Sindh and the northern entities /FATA,etc., must be encouraged to break free from the stranglehold of the Paki army/ISI.In the absence of true democracy,where fuedalism still runs deep,tribal loyalties will prove to be the catalyst for change."71 must be repeated,this time by Pak imploding by itself-with a little help from its "friends".

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby JE Menon » 01 Aug 2011 12:12

According to NDTV, the US amby to Pak Cameron Munter was detained at Islamabad airport - as part of pressure by Pak for all US diplomats to get a No Objection Certificate to travel to other parts of the country. Apparently the amby protested strongly :D

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Lalmohan » 01 Aug 2011 12:13

Ravi Karumanchiri wrote:I was just watching 'HBO Canada' (a satellite TV channel from the US), and they had an ad for an upcomming HBO series called 'Strike Back'.

I wasn't paying full attention, but the premise of the show seems to be about a squad of kick-ass Americans battling terrorists. In the ad, the one Khan says "the Pakistani terrorist Latif", and another Khan says something about "working undercover in Pakistan"; all within a 15 second commercial.

I've never heard "Pakistan" or "Pakistani" mentionned in this context before, at least not in any American production.

Could this be yet another sign of the 'sea change' we've been anticipating (/doubting)?


its a british series, you'll find it on wiki

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Anindya » 01 Aug 2011 12:21


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby vina » 01 Aug 2011 12:30

JE Menon wrote:No Objection Certificate


What! The Pakis too are into this "No Objection Certificate" :eek: :eek: ? It thought that it is a unique Indian Babu invention, and it ranked right there in terms of philosophical underpinnings as the invention of "Zero/ Shoonya" . Think of it. It is going and asking something , like "Give me a Zero/ Nothing!" .

Shame . Shame. Just like the Shoonya was stolen by the middle east and then became a "Zero" and part of the wider world, this too is getting stolen and will eventually become world wide mainstream.

I demand that we get the G.I rights on this and make sure that it is firmly bound with the original inventors of this and we get copyright for this pronto!. :(( :(( :((

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Nandu » 01 Aug 2011 12:46

TSP to "redesign" war on terror policy.
http://tribune.com.pk/story/221720/at-c ... or-policy/
Under the new plan, officials added, the TTP leadership would be asked to focus its attention to fight against international forces in Afghanistan and spare Pakistan. In return, they would be offered ‘concessions’ similar to those being enjoyed by the Haqqani network — a group of pro-Pakistan Afghan Taliban based in North Waziristan and operating across the border against the US-led multinational forces.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby shravan » 01 Aug 2011 12:48

Two die, three hurt in Quetta blast

QUETTA: At least two people were killed and three others wounded in a blast in Hazarganji area of the city Monday morning.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby shravan » 01 Aug 2011 13:31

Five killed in South Waziristan drone strike

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby SSridhar » 01 Aug 2011 15:00


There are two urgent things.

One, the talks in the US went real bad that Pakistan wants to be re-assured of Chinese support just in case something bad happens and also to send a signal to the US. The Pakistani Generals are in an aggressive mood while the ruling politicians are just glum not knowing what to say or do. The Generals are once again taking Pakistan down the drain tube.

Two, the Chinese demanded the ISI Chief to come to Beijing urgently in view of the renewed uprising in Xinjiang in the last two weeks.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Venkarl » 01 Aug 2011 15:23

Chinmayanand wrote:China blames Muslim extremists for attack in Xinjiang

"A group of religious extremists led by culprits trained in overseas terrorist camps were behind the weekend attack," a Kashgar government statement said.

An initial police investigation found that the leaders of the group behind the attack had learned about explosives and firearms in Pakistan at a camp of the separatist "East Turkestan Islamic Movement," it said.

---------
Why do the Chinese think that pakis will double cross only the amrikans not the hans ?
9/11 in US brought plenty of dollars and free weapons from US , so pakis may have some similiar designs on China too. They both deserve each other. :mrgreen:


Ha..so the "IT blackmailing" has reached world media....is it gonna change anything? lolz

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Singha » 01 Aug 2011 15:29

the chinese will not be as tolerant as the americans for sure wrt to paki running-with-hares-and-hounds strategy.

they will demand action in very crude terms - like in lal masjid case. the blowback will be there.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Rajdeep » 01 Aug 2011 16:02

I guess the laal army ppl in POK are to be used in such a scenario where the pakis start showing their inner pakistaniyat to the hans.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby krishnan » 01 Aug 2011 16:49

China is probably the last hope for pak, if even it starts to act like US, then its all over for it

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby SSridhar » 01 Aug 2011 17:01

krishnan wrote:China is probably the last hope for pak, if even it starts to act like US, then its all over for it

PRC cannot replace the US in terms of the quality and quantity of funds, arms, interceding with other nations on behalf of Pakistan, quality of intelligence shared with TSP, and the clout with international financial institutions. Besides, TSP may not be able to do much if the Lashkar-e-Khorasan decide to foment terrorism in Xinjiang because then TSP will have to strike at the very root of its terrorism friends (who are dwindling by the day). That means, the concept of Strategic Depth may be in deep trouble. In fact, PRC may be more important for the unravelling of the 'Land of the Pure' rather than the Americans. One would like the Xinjiang troubles to grow in the weeks ahead.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Altair » 01 Aug 2011 17:03

Knowing Pakis all well now, they will try to play the victim here. Perhaps they might even blow up a nuke in their backyard to raise the stakes and then cry we are all southasian onleee.:(

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Pratyush » 01 Aug 2011 17:08

krishnan wrote:China is probably the last hope for pak, if even it starts to act like US, then its all over for it


The last hop of TSP is the WKK GOI.

When that fails TSP is doomed.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby sanjeevpunj » 01 Aug 2011 17:10

SSridhar wrote:
krishnan wrote:TSP may not be able to do much if the Lashkar-e-Khorasan decide to foment terrorism in Xinjiang because then TSP will have to strike at the very root of its terrorism friends (who are dwindling by the day). That means, the concept of Strategic Depth may be in deep trouble. In fact, PRC may be more important for the unravelling of the 'Land of the Pure' rather than the Americans. One would like the Xinjiang troubles to grow in the weeks ahead.

It is happening. China blames deadly Xinjiang attack on separatists.
China says Muslim separatists trained in Pakistan were behind an attack which killed six civilians in the western region of Xinjiang on Sunday.
In an online statement, the local government said "armed terrorists" stormed a restaurant, killing two, then fatally stabbed four people outside.
Police responding to the attack shot dead five suspects.The attack was part of a week end of violence which left up to 18 people dead.
Kashgar is in west of Xinjiang region, which has a Muslim Uighur population and has seen regular outbreaks of ethnic tension, mainly triggered by the influx of Han Chinese.
Source:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14362544

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Venkarl » 01 Aug 2011 17:12

Okay. We all know that paki jernails, ISI etc are items for sale in IT market. Whoever pays them, they do their job plus take some advantage out of it for self. Can I assume that few paki ranks in ISI have been bought off by amrikis and use them to create ruckus in xinjiang which may severe Chinese relationship with Pakis and thus isolating pakis? or I have too much spare time to think this? :P

Regards

or could it be China itself doing this to distance itself from skunky pakis?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby CRamS » 01 Aug 2011 17:19

cowardly Abbottabad attack.


Man oh man, I was actually reading that article seriously, nothing new, typical India-hating Paki exressing his bile and fantasy, but this above quote literally chocked as I tried to contsrain my laughter while sipping my early morning coffee :-). I mean of all the things he could have said to hide his trauma, this one takes the cake. I must say he has a sense of humor.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Venkarl » 01 Aug 2011 17:21

covert==cowardly in paki English...don't you know that?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby sanjeevpunj » 01 Aug 2011 17:23

You can see this trend has been going on ever after the Chinese govt. decided enough is enough and got into the act of punishing Uighurs after they attacked local chinese Han people,duriang a riot in 2009, and the Chinese officials claimed the riots’ victims were predominantly Han Chinese. They blamed the violence on Uighur exile groups, which they accuse of working with al Qaeda,

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Aditya_V » 01 Aug 2011 17:28

JE Menon wrote:According to NDTV, the US amby to Pak Cameron Munter was detained at Islamabad airport - as part of pressure by Pak for all US diplomats to get a No Objection Certificate to travel to other parts of the country. Apparently the amby protested strongly :D


I hope they strip and torture him , that would be strategically brilliant decesion by the TFTA and supporters of TSP in SD will be really have shut thier Musharaf's.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Kashi » 01 Aug 2011 17:30

Not sure if this should be posted here or in the internal security thread..maybe I'll X post it there as well. Highly relevant.

Spy wars

Days before the Foreign Minister of Pakistan, Hina Rabbani Khar, was to meet Kashmiri separatist Yasin Malik in Lahore on July 25, Indian intelligence knew. Especially after last year’s curfew-ridden months and violence, the Intelligence Bureau (IB) and Military Intelligence (MI) were working overtime in Kashmir. They passed on information to New Delhi that Hurriyat leaders Syed Ali Shah Geelani and Mirwaiz Umar Farooq were preparing to leave for New Delhi on the eve of the Pakistan foreign minister’s visit. The mandarins of the Ministry of Home Affairs, the Ministry of External Affairs and the Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) that also included officers from Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) and IB met. It was decided that if Rabbani met Hurriyat leaders at the Pakistani High Commission in New Delhi, it could be advantage India—the moral high ground of a democracy where dissent is tolerated. It would also expose Pakistan as a country officially encouraging separatism and violence in Kashmir for the world has been watching since the FBI arrested Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) lobbyist Ghulam Nabi Fai who received millions of dollars from the ISI to lobby for Kashmir.

Such is the smoke and mirrors world of espionage—nothing is what it seems to be. “We call it perception management,” says an intelligence officer. “We communicate to the Pakistanis through separatists, especially people like Mirwaiz and Malik. They say one thing in public, but to our counterparts in Islamabad, they say something else in private; after all Mirwaiz’s father was murdered by the ISI, his school burnt down and his aide was recently shot. He has no love for Pakistan. When things get too hot in Kashmir, it is they who tell Pakistan to back off,” adds the officer.

A senior Israeli diplomat posted in Delhi says that Indian intelligence is one of the finest in the world. But information dissemination and coordination among India’s various intelligence agencies are a plague. “Terror related intel operations are effective only if you have good HUMINT (human intelligence),” says Jaidev Ranade, former additional secretary in the Cabinet Secretariat and counter-intelligence expert. According to a senior IB official, the 26/11 terrorists were using SIM cards planted on them by the Jammu and Kashmir Police. It’s these cards that opened the gateway that enabled Indian intelligence to track the calls and source them to Pakistan. That information was later shared with other agencies, especially Israel’s Mossad, after the two Pakistani terrorists—Babar Imran and Nasir—occupied Chabad House for 45 hours and killed six Israelis during the attacks. According to C D Sahay, former director, RAW, there was enough intelligence to avoid 26/11. The Israelis say that after 26/11, Indian intelligence and Mossad work closely together, especially on Islamic terror. “We have common interests” is the explanation.

The subcontinent is a beehive of intelligence and counterintelligence activity and spycraft. There are two reasons for this. One is Islamic terror with AfPak as the hub. Two, India is spending billions of dollars on armament and other defence equipment. Together, they are compelling motives for most major intelligence agencies to spread their net as wide as possible in India: the main players being—apart from the ubiquitous ISI— the CIA, the FSB (Russia’s spy agency), China’s MSS (Ministry of State Security), DGFI (Bangladesh’s intelligence agency) and the Mossad. MI6 and the French have a presence, too, but their information gathering is largely related to defence. To make friends and influence people, various time- tested methods are used—women, booze, bribes, foreign trips, scholarships and cybercraft.

SEX AND THE SPY

The famous American spymaster, the CIA’s Michael J Barrett, called espionage “the world’s second oldest profession and just as honourable as the first”. Sex is one of the popular weapons of spycraft, used extensively in India by Pakistan and to a lesser degree by the CIA. The Russians and the Chinese, according to RAW sources, prefer to entrap Indian diplomats abroad.

A senior RAW operative who held postings in Washington and Beijing speaks about a Pakistani Lothario diplomat in Delhi who had half of the city’s prominent socialites as friends. He was posted as a First Secretary; his espionage skills got him a quick promotion to Counselor. His modus operandi was to use his formidable seduction skills on high society women who had access to the highest levels in the Indian establishment. The male Mata Hari would gather information through his network of sexual conquests; some of them even had parallel romantic relationships with Indian bureaucrats, politicians and even some senior journalists. All Pakistani high commissioners in India entertain lavishly, and the capital’s crème de la crème—journalists, businessmen and social butterflies—is invited. Cultural exchanges between India and Pakistan lead to qawwalis and mushairas; fertile grounds for information harvesting.

“He even kept a little diary that listed his conquests,” says a senior IB operative. “Women were classified according to their vital statistics, temperament and region —Marwari,

Punjabi, Bengali or South Indian. He wrote that Bengali women were stubborn while Bihari and Punjabi women were easier to manipulate.”
So, when the IB has such detailed information on a Pakistani spy, why don’t they expel him? Simple. It’s easier to keep an eye on a known spy, as well as on the Indians who are close to him.

According to the IB, the ISI maintains three levels of operatives. At the lowest level are those who are lowly paid and are merely asked to reconnoitre cantonments, police stations and government buildings and report back. The second rung is more trusted; for example, they would be asked to create long term cover stories: like opening a small shop in the vicinity of the cantonment, cultivate locals and soldiers and gather information on officers, and the coming and goings-on in the cantonment.

The third are unique as spies—good looking, physically strong young boys and men. An Indian intelligence officer says that the ISI took a leaf out of the East German spymaster Markus Wolf’s book to create male honeytraps and woo lonely secretaries of influential men in government. They would entrap lonely diplomats (like Madhuri Gupta who was arrested in 2010) or army wives, including those of non-commissioned officers. Indian intelligence was alerted to this operation through telephone intercepts traced to Pakistan. A massive sexual offensive against India is being planned by the ISI, according to Indian intelligence in Kashmir. Around 900-odd women spies are being trained by ISI, to “honeytrap” important Indian establishment figures. Punjab and Kashmir police are keeping a lookout for the Pakistani Pussy Galores crossing the border.

A RAW official says that Indian intelligence cultivates Pakistani assets as well, but more at home than in Karachi or Islamabad. This is because the ISI keeps all Indians, both visitors and diplomats, on a tight leash. What the Pakistani spy wants in exchange first is sex. That too, they insist on Hindu women only. “Honeytraps are not our style,” says an intelligence officer who has served abroad under diplomatic cover. “But there are enough call girls who are passed off as Hindu women.” Of course, the Pakistani spies are also paid in cash and expensive foreign liquor in exchange for information.

RAW officials say that Pakistani politicians visiting India —usually delegations of MPs—ask for film actresses and starlets as local entertainment. The ISI connects them to upscale pimps, who then are put in touch with visiting Pakistani politicos. “There are travel restrictions on Pakistanis, so the girls are flown into Delhi,” says an IB source. It makes it easier for the IB to keep tabs on them. As well as compromise the politicians and turn them into potential intelligence assets for the RAW.

There are many cases of successful honeytraps in the saga or intelligence and counterintelligence, but few are revealed. Exposure is usually quick and the diplomat is sent home usually on the first available flight. In one case, a Pakistani female agent compromised an Indian naval attaché posted at the Indian mission in Islamabad. At that time, the naval officer’s uncle was a senior bureaucrat attached to the office of the President of India, which made him a prize asset for the Pakistanis. The Pakistanis also knew he had a glad eye, especially for the wives of fellow officers. They entrapped him with a beautiful female ISI agent working with the Pakistani Navy; they would go off to the Pakistani hill station of Murree for trysts. Then one day, she came up with the standard blackmail line that she was pregnant. The ISI then began to put the heat on him, but the naval officer had the good sense to speak to the Indian ambassador who put him on the first flight out of Islamabad. After debriefing and enquiry, he was asked to resign his commission. There is a similar case that happened in Beijing when an Indian diplomat was having two affairs simultaneously—one with his maid and the other with his Chinese linguist—who were both Chinese agents. While forced to choose, he took the linguist out for dinner to tell her it was over. By mistake, the speed dial button of a friend, a senior Indian diplomat posted in Beijing, was pressed. He then taped the whole conversation. The disgrace claimed the ageing Don Juan, who had less than a year to retire. A RAW officer posted in Beijing remembers a similar case when his friend—a young American diplomat posted as a 3rd Secretary in the Cyber Division who was honeytrapped by a gorgeous Chinese girl—approached him for advice. His counsel was that the young man seek help from the US mission. The American did and was flown home immediately.

OLD BOY NETWORK

The reason why Pakistan has been able to cultivate sources among Delhi’s elite is, class. All Pakistani High Commissioners to India have a common social profile—Oxbridge educated, Westernised and immensely rich, they rely on the old boy network with Indians who they went to college and school with; who now occupy high positions. An intelligence official in Delhi, who specialises in Pakistan affairs, says that the ISI targets Delhi’s Punjabi upper class who are fed the cross-border Punjabi Indo-Pak brotherhood. Former Prime Minister I K Gujral—no Pakistani agent—was melted enough by the Punjabi brotherhood line to disband the entire RAW network across Pakistan, one that had taken years to build. Intelligence legend says the then RAW chief was ordered to give the names of the assets to Pakistan to earn “goodwill”, which was returned in the form of executions carried out by General Ziauddin of the ISI. Pakistani upper class Indian assets in Delhi are “unknowing conduits” of information, according to senior RAW source. It is a subtle operation that is a combination of confidences shared at private dinners, Urdu poetry sessions and musical evenings and information passed on in the interests of “neighbourly peace”. Gujral’s act was to cause lasting damage to RAW, which in retrospect would’ve been in a better position to handle Pak-sponsored Islamist terror.

RAW’s operations in Pakistan had been very effective during the Khalistan movement. In the mid-1980s, the agency set up the Counter Intelligence Team-X (CIT-X) and Counter Intelligence Team-J (CIT-J)—two highly covert arms to react with violence within Pakistan whenever a Pak-sponsored massacre happened in Punjab. They were so successful that the ISI chief was forced to ask for a meeting with his RAW counterpart to draw up the rules of engagement on Punjab with the then Jordanian Crown Prince Hassan bin-Talal acting as referee. The prince’s wife, Princess Sarvath, is Pakistani and presumably was contacted by the ISI.

“At that time we had an advantage,” says Moloy Dhar, IB counterintelligence expert who was involved in the operations. “The media gave us silent cooperation. It was war. So we did it and finished it.”

Those who are “skittish” about Pakistanis are approached by another route—of other diplomats. According to an IB official, Bangladeshis are perfect candidates. “Many with old East Pakistan memories are still sympathetic towards Pakistan,” he says. “Money changes hands.”
Ranade says there is a ring of mosques along the Indo-Bangladesh border that function as a base for ISI operations. According to a senior MI source, the Bangladesh spy agency DGFI (Directorate General of Forces Intelligence) actively helps in Pakistani infiltration through the eastern border—the terror module that coordinated the 1999 Kandahar hijack was from Bangladesh. According to Indian diplomatic sources, the former Bangladeshi High Commissioner was pro-Pakistan while his deputy has strong pro-India feelings.

“In the pre-Hasina days, the DGFI was hand in glove with Pakistan’s ISI,” says Dhar. “They trained the ULFA, the Nagas, the Manipuris against India. But once Hasina came to power, they were driven out.”

HI-TECH SNOOPING

It’s not just the Bangladeshis that the Chinese use for eliciting third party information. The Chinese bribe cooperative third world diplomats to spy on each other. The role of Chinese journalists with huge expense accounts cultivating contacts in the media and the establishment in Delhi has come under the RAW and IB scanner. Indians who have similar ideological sympathies help them: those who study or teach in certain universities or belong to left-leaning political parties. Many of them are offered “free trips” to China where all tabs, including shopping, are picked up. “Indian missions overseas do it too,” says a retired diplomat. “We offer the India experience.” But there is a difference. “The Chinese follow up and seek a quid pro quo in the relevant fields,” says Ranade.
The Chinese are also good at cultivating sources in government. A classic case is Huawei Technologies, the Bangalore-based Chinese corporation that was blacklisted from entering the telecom sector after a CIA tipoff on its Taliban connection. Government sources say Huawei flouted all regulations, but “was in business before we were even aware of it”. The company’s modus operandi was to recruit former GMs and retired senior officers of MTNL and BSNL on huge salaries, and thus use their government connections to its benefit. In one case, a serving MTNL official—due to retire in two years—was contacted and offered a job at a huge salary. “Hook him before he retires is Huawei’s policy,” says an intelligence analyst.
The IB says that when it comes to hacking, the Chinese rule. When the PMO computers were hacked into in 2010, the hackers chose only those machines belonging to officials like the JS (Pak), JS (China) and JS (US).

HANDOUT ESPIONAGE

Unlike the Chinese, the CIA has been operating in India for decades, even before it helped the Indian government set up RAW after the 1962 Indo-China War. Honeytraps have been frequently used, but today the CIA’s main lure is money, jobs and scholarships for the children of powerful bureaucrats and politicians to study abroad. “Many journalists and babus are partial to the United States,” says an intelligence officer. “Everyone’s kids want to go to the US to study. The Americans help them with visas and funds depending on how useful they are.”

The RAW and IB are keeping a watch on a “couple of senior persons,” on whom “there are strong suspicions”. When a kid whose school record has been indifferent suddenly gets into a good American school, “light bulbs go on”. The CIA is sometimes loyal to its top Indian agents: Rabinder Singh, a former RAW operative who disappeared after coming under suspicion of being a CIA agent was helped by the Americans to flee the country, according to RAW officials. They supposedly helped Singh generously when he had a near-fatal car accident in Syria. When Singh was exposed, RAW sources say the CIA supplied him a false passport and spirited him away through Nepal.

IN THEIR DEFENCE

Unlike the Pakistanis and the CIA, the Russians use honeytraps only to get information on defence deals—Commodore Sukhvinder Singh is a case in point. “The Russians are lying low,” says Dhar. “Americans no longer see India as an enemy. The need to use honeytraps like before has become much less.”

The Mossad is aggressive when it comes to garnering defence information; according to MI sources, there are many Indo-US deals that happen under the radar. Mossad targets Indian security and defence officials using friendly arms dealers in Delhi. The incentive is not women—but money, booze and foreign trips. The Mossad’s other focus is on anti-Pak operations. According to a senior IB operative, India’s small town Muslim ghettos—“We have to liberate the other nation in Hindustan,” a slogan coined by former Pak intel chief Hamid Gul—are ideal hiding places for Pakistani agents acting in concert with local terror modules. The Mossad uses its sabbath houses in India to keep tabs on suspected terrorists. Young Israeli decommissioned soldiers visiting India also help the Mossad. Even during India’s Socialist pro-Arab days, the RAW maintained a covert relationship with the Mossad, mainly to gain from Israel’s West Asia and North Africa information as well as learning counterterrorism techniques, says an intelligence officer.

With so many foreign agencies operating on Indian soil, it’s not as if the IB and RAW are quiet. Indian intelligence has infiltrated not just the jihadi support groups operating in Kashmir and Bengal, but also has a strong presence in Nepal. An MI operative in Kashmir speaks of infiltrating Kashmiri mosques to identify hate speakers. “Since I’m tall and fair and look like a Kashmiri, I blended well in the mosque wearing a phiran and offering namaz. But had I opened my mouth, I would’ve been dead, exposed as a non-Kashmiri. I would pretend to be dumb.” Some were not so lucky. A retired spymaster remembers how he sent an operative into Pakistan who spent the night in a sarai along the border. “Something he did gave him away and he was picked up after prayer,” he says. “After many years, we heard he had been thrown into jail and kept there.” The world of intelligence has its comic interludes too: the turf wars between various arms are a block to information cooperation, especially along the border. “Sometimes the MI, IB and the RAW use the same agent without knowing he works for the others,” says an old Pakistan desk hand. “He coolly collects money from all three for the same bit of info.”

Money makes the intelligence world go around. Many Indian NGOs are funded by various intelligence agencies, including the ISI and the CIA. Every year an international conference of NGOs takes place in Geneva on South Asian issues. It’s open season. “The Indian government funds its own NGOs to counter anti-India propaganda,” says a retired RAW operative. “We also identify who works for who.”
According to South Asia military intelligence expert Colonel R Hariharan, “Intelligence agencies use three major human weaknesses—wine, women, and money power—to make those with access to secrets part with information.”

Secrets are the subtext of power. And spies the deadly couriers.


An interesting piece that vocalises much of the points debated on BR.
-WKKs are not only fools but toxic fools
Last edited by Kashi on 01 Aug 2011 17:32, edited 1 time in total.

SSridhar
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby SSridhar » 01 Aug 2011 17:32

Venkarl wrote:Can I assume that few paki ranks in ISI have been bought off by amrikis and use them to create ruckus in xinjiang which may severe Chinese relationship with Pakis and thus isolating pakis? or I have too much spare time to think this?


The latter.


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