Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 2011

[Philip]

How the Pakis betrayed Bin laden,for the proverbial "30 pieces of silver"!
Read the sordid details.

http://news.in.msn.com/international/ar ... id=5348170

'Pakistan sheltered Osama in return for Saudi cash'
Islamabad: Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden was protected by elements of Pakistan's security apparatus in return for millions of dollars of Saudi cash, an American security analyst has claimed.

[abhischekcc]

We are growing economically, OK.

But are we retaliating against the pakis who kill our people with impunity.

-------------

So pakis took KSA money for protecting the man who was allegedly the most anti KSA-monarchy? What does that say about Saudi government's relationship to Osama? More importantly, what does it say about Saudi's role in 9/11?

[nvishal]

Retaliate to achieve what objectives? To shell each other on borders till one stops?

To teach them a lesson would be to hold a piece of their territory. But that would also be a mistake. The greatest punishment you can give pakistan is to isolate them from india or anything indian. Jam indian channels from being viewed in pakistan. Let them go west wards to fulfil their culture needs and see what happens. Our interactions with the pakistani's is the main problem. Do you see the chinese people talk about blasts in india on their web portals? That is called "isolation". That is why the pakistani's do things to force us to talk about them. It creates a link.

[Philip]

Egzackly!...as Obelix would've said.The Paki-Saudi combine,when China and NoKo is added to the axis of evil,is the most dangerous entity on the planet.One must remember how the Bin Laden family were secretly flown out of the US after 9/11 by Bush and co.The latest news about the Bin Laden group going to build the 1KM tower in Jeddah,the world's tallest,indicates how close the family is to the ruling clique.Osama goioing "rogue" was a great embarrassment,but he also had to be kept out of the clutches of the Yanquis as within the Saudis,there is the Wahabi group ,very strong,very powerful,who bankroll Islamist terror worldwide including India,and are hand in glove wiht the Pakis who do their dirty work for them.

It is also not a concidence that the alleged Bali bomber was also picked up in Abottabad 6 months ago and is being deported to Indonesia.Both the Saudis and the Pakis hunt with the hounds and hide with the whores,sorry....hares! When it suits the,m bets,they pull out the Islamic card and on other ocassions,pimp for the west.Wanting the US to attack Iran for instance.

PS:I concur with the above post.WE need to isolate ourselves from Pak by building the equiv. of the Great Wall of China-to keep ot their devilish acts of terror and everything Paki that might contaminate India.Let them slit their own throats happily ,as they are doing in Karachi,until wisdom dawns upon them,one hopes,though one despairs for this almost "impossibility".

[RajeshA]

Retaliate to achieve what objectives? To shell each other on borders till one stops?

To teach them a lesson would be to hold a piece of their territory. But that would also be a mistake. The greatest punishment you can give pakistan is to isolate them from india or anything indian. Jam indian channels from being viewed in pakistan. Let them go west wards to fulfil their culture needs and see what happens. Our interactions with the pakistani's is the main problem. Do you see the chinese people talk about blasts in india on their web portals? That is called "isolation". That is why the pakistani's do things to force us to talk about them. It creates a link.

It is exactly the other way round. Bullying is all about forcing someone to suffer pain in silence, and on top of that to eat your biryani paying with all one has!

[nvishal]

@RajeshA
OMG! Do you understand the meaning of partition?

India has only two fu@king options to solve its problems: 1) Isolate pakistan or 2) De-partition

These are the ONLY *real* options. There is no other option. What do you have in mind?

[JE Menon]

>>India has only two fu@king options to solve its problems: 1) Isolate pakistan or 2) De-partition

Please read a part of the TSP threads, Shiv's book, etc. We have several other options: Engage Pakistan, Isolate Pakistan frome everyone else (except us), rewind partition partly, nuke the fu(kers, some of the above, and in worst case all of the above in sequence. Time will tell, even with less than 20-20 hindsight, that the Indian approach was sophisticated, deeply considered, evolutionary and for lack of a better word "organic". In short, as the late RN Kao put it much more succintly we are LeTting "them stew in their own juice" - and what a juice it is.

Of course, there is a price to be paid. But there is no approach for which a price would not have to be paid. This may be the only one that simultaneously allows us to grow as we have done over the last 20 years approx. And we need to do that, as we are not playing a regional tournament, and we are not playing a 20-20. It is a test match, a test of national will, endurance and capacity for survival. We will win. We will try to ensure that Pakistan does not lose in the process, because that is the way of Indian civilisation, but that is largely up to the leaders of Pakistan. I'm not optimistic. Unfortunately they are ignorant, of limited intellectual capacity where it exists, lack any serious ability for reasoned and maximally objective analysis, and entirely dependent on the idea of a god with all the answers. We are fortunate that, given that we have this animal next door, it is constituted as it is.

[RajeshA]

nvishal ji,

India should never isolate Pakistanis from India! It is one thing not to allow them in into India due to security reasons, but we should always assert that they are part of India, zombies may be to foreign ideologies, but still part of India, and if we can take them out of the Borg collective, we would gladly do so! Pakistan is India gone mad! So we will continue to give therapy to this mad place, even if it includes electric shocks and physical restraints if needed. We will continue to kick ass to establish our authority if needed, but we will also not push Pakistanis out of the tent!

Pakistanis are genetically Indians and Pakistan is Indian land, and we will get both back someday!

Telling them they are not of our stock, and we don't want anything to do with them is childish, because history shows us, it never works! Those who are rejected in this way, end up taking over the identity of the foreigners. Sure in Pakistan there is may be 2% people who may have Turkish, Arab, or Persian bloodlines, but that is not true for the rest. The manufactured identity has to be broken.

So isolationism is not an option.

Neither is "De-partition" an option until those zombies roam around.

The only option is integration of those areas of Pakistan into India which bring more in terms of strategic advantage than they burden us for being Muslim. The rest of the people need to be contained and detoxificated.

If you are looking for options, do visit "Managing Pakistan's failure" Thread. Some options are mentioned there. Other options are spread over the whole of BRF.

[ArmenT]

How the Pakis betrayed Bin laden,for the proverbial "30 pieces of silver"!
Read the sordid details.

http://news.in.msn.com/international/ar ... id=5348170

'Pakistan sheltered Osama in return for Saudi cash'
Islamabad: Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden was protected by elements of Pakistan's security apparatus in return for millions of dollars of Saudi cash, an American security analyst has claimed.

This so-called American security analyst doesn't seem so reliable. For one, she doesn't really state her sources. Secondly, she currently writes thriller novels for a living. She also claims to have been a smuggler and also claims that she was employed by the Stasi and the Libyans at different times.

Raelynn Hillhouse's bio <-- Read the rest of the details.

[nvishal]

@JEM
I have gone through shiv's book word to word. In fact, I found the book so good that I spent several hours in the night reformatting it to my satisfaction for printing and achieve purpose. You can download the formatted version from here (Shiv, I hope you have no problems with this)

[JE Menon]

Great stuff Nvishal. I have the book. It is permanently accessible and multiple-bookmarked. Spread your link around.

Pakistan is not a "normal" adversary. This one must not just be crushed, but it must be converted. Only that will be true and ultimate victory.

[nvishal]

@JEM @RajeshA
I still think we have just those two options. I understand what you mean though; isolating them in the short term with the long term objective to include them back into india. It's just that I do not have such benevolent thoughts for them. Especially after seeing how they have been collaborating with third party nations and entities for india's destruction. Treason is treason.

[chetak]

@JEM @RajeshA
I still think we have just those two options. I understand what you mean though; isolating them in the short term with the long term objective to include them back into india. It's just that I do not have such benevolent thoughts for them. Especially after seeing how they have been collaborating with third party nations and entities for india's destruction. Treason is treason.

Hopefully, JEM meant converted to fertilizer?

[RajeshA]

nvishal ji,

could you please make a pdf of the reformatted shiv's book, and then put it up for downloading!

TIA

[nvishal]

I don't know how to, sorry.

But I made that *.doc specifically for printing. I have a copy of it on paper and looks very fine.

Maybe someone here can convert it to pdf format.

[RajeshA]

Do you see the chinese people talk about blasts in india on their web portals?

There is not much cultural-emotional affinity between the Chinese and the Indians. Why would they be discussing Blasts in India? Why do they care? Do we care about them? They are not "punishing" us by "ignoring" us! We were never really ever in their eyesight, and we don't really care about that either. If it was a punishment, nobody in India would notice it!

Retaliate to achieve what objectives? To shell each other on borders till one stops?

Retaliation has clear objectives - to make them feel pain in giving us pain; to push away their positions further inland, so that these positions cannot provide cover-fire for terrorists wanting to infiltrate; to make them spend resources faster than they can replenish them; to break their fighting morale; to put them politically under psychological pressure to make concessions to India.

To teach them a lesson would be to hold a piece of their territory. But that would also be a mistake.

So it is going to be a mistake! Why? Care to give any reasons!

The greatest punishment you can give pakistan is to isolate them from india or anything indian. Jam indian channels from being viewed in pakistan. Let them go west wards to fulfil their culture needs and see what happens. Our interactions with the pakistani's is the main problem.
That is called "isolation". That is why the pakistani's do things to force us to talk about them. It creates a link.

First of all in this age of file torrents, online streaming, DVD ripping, I don't know how you propose to stop Pakistanis from availing of Indian media content if they so desire.

Secondly if your analogy is to a child who starts crying and kicking to get attention, any isolation would only push the child to kick more strongly. If reaction from us would in that case be a satisfactory experience, even if it is a protest or our own display of grief.

If Pakistan was where Ecuador is, then perhaps it could have made sense, but this kind of isolation is not possible, especially as we share hostility with them, and they pose a military threat to us.

@JEM @RajeshA
I still think we have just those two options. I understand what you mean though; isolating them in the short term with the long term objective to include them back into india. It's just that I do not have such benevolent thoughts for them. Especially after seeing how they have been collaborating with third party nations and entities for india's destruction. Treason is treason.

Perhaps you may like to expand on those two options. As of now, they don't make much sense.

BTW, "Managing Pakistan's failure" is a dedicated thread especially for exploring such options.

[James B]

nvishal ji,

could you please make a pdf of the reformatted shiv's book, and then put it up for downloading!

TIA

Here is the re-formatted Shiv's book in a pdf format. Thanks nvishal.

http://www.filesonic.com/file/1646948534/Pak.pdf

[Suppiah]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/0 ... n.bombing/

Looking at the pic, it is clear they have put in steel balls/nails in the bum to bring jannat to a few more pakbarics.

Bunnies are losing their magic, why do they need 3 soosai's to purify 6?

[nvishal]

@RajeshA @JEM
This warfare between us and them goes beyond india and pakistan. It goes beyond hindu and muslim.

You seem to think they are will all be one big happy family if they were to convert back to their dharmic faiths. They've been at it since before the macedonian king landed on the indian sub-continent. Study Ambhi and King Porus. Ambhi collaborated with Alexander and defeated Porus. Does it ring any bell?

A quick summary from wiki

Taksxila (in Greek Tαξίλης or Ταξίλας; lived 4th century BC) was the Greek chroniclers' name for a prince or king who reigned over the tract between the Indus and the Hydaspes Rivers in the Punjab at the period of the expedition of Alexander the Great, 327 BC. His real name was Ambhi(Greek: Omphis), and the Greeks appear to have called him Taxiles or Taxilas, from the name of his capital city of Taxila, near the modern Attock.[1]

He appears to have been on terms of hostility with his neighbour Porus, who held the territories east of the Hydaspes, and it was probably with a view of strengthening himself against this foe, that he sent an embassy to Alexander, while the latter was yet in Sogdiana, with offers of assistance and support, perhaps in return for money. On the first descent of the conqueror into India in 327 BCE, Alexander was unnerved by the sight of Ambhi's forces and ordered his own forces to form up. Ambhi hastened to relieve Alexander of his apprehension and met him with valuable presents, and placed himself and all his forces at his disposal. Alexander not only returned Ambhi his title and the gifts but he also presented him with a wardrobe of "Persian robes, gold and silver ornaments, 30 horses and 1000 talents in gold".[2] Alexander was emboldened to divide his forces, and Ambhi assisted Hephaestion and Perdiccas in constructing a bridge over the Indus where it bends at Hund (Fox 1973), supplied their troops with provisions, and received Alexander himself, and his whole army, in his capital city of Taxila, with every demonstration of friendship and the most liberal hospitality.[3]

On the subsequent advance of the Macedonian king, Taxiles accompanied him with a force of 5000 men, and bore a part in the battle of the Hydaspes River. After that victory he was sent by Alexander in pursuit of Porus, to whom he was charged to offer favourable terms, but narrowly escaped losing his life at the hands of his old enemy. Subsequently, however, the two rivals were reconciled by the personal mediation of Alexander; and Taxiles, after having contributed zealously to the equipment of the fleet on the Hydaspes, was entrusted by the king with the government of the whole territory between that river and the Indus.[4] A considerable accession of power was granted him after the death of Philip, son of Machatas; and he was allowed to retain his authority at the death of Alexander himself (323 BC), as well as in the subsequent partition of the provinces at Triparadisus, 321 BC.[5] But at a subsequent period we find Eudemus, the commander of the Macedonian troops in his province, possessing the sole authority: whether Taxiles had been displaced by force or removed by a natural death, we are not informed.

[Suppiah]

A hard hitting editorial on the role of Saudibarians in turning Pakbarians into more fanatic barbarians than they already are...

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2011_pg3_1

[Suppiah]

The author gets it 50% right...

TSP living in semi-Taliban state..

[RajeshA]

nvishal ji,

you are carrying too much historical weight with you around, which is based on the political acts of some traitor king. That king was a traitor to the cause of Bharat. Does that make the whole population of that area which happens to be of the same genetic stock as us, unworthy of receiving the light of Dharma, even if it has to force-fed?

Besides Pakistan is a wall which is stopping India's march to the West and North, and that wall has to be broken. Instead you are proposing that we huddle ourselves behind this wall and sulk!

[JE Menon]

By convert, I mean convert to anything other than their current ideology - and to have the new one ingrained over a long period of time.... The fertiliser option was anyway included in my earlier post.

Frankly, I'm not optimistic the above will be possible. I think we will have to break them of into chewable chunks. The Pakisatan as we know it will have to cease to exist in current shape.

[nvishal]

Here is the re-formatted Shiv's book in a pdf format. Thanks nvishal.
http://www.filesonic.com/file/1646948534/Pak.pdf

I'm impressed. It's a perfect copy. No loss of formatting.

@RajeshA
There's a difference between what is happening on the ground and our interpretation of what we think is happening on the ground. One opinion is based on realism and the other is based on arbitrary reasoning. Constructing a clever set of semantics together to counter an argument is what debate has become.

It is very noble of you to place an argument before me about this vocal minority and silent majority etc etc. I feel it is a distraction. The citizens of a country are directly responsible for its military because they enable them through taxes and votes. To not acknowledge this fact is an act of idiocy(an arbitrary argument).

Prioritizing economic possibilities beyond pakistan is equivalent to merging it back with india. We already have our hands full with the pakjabi's who have no qualms about betraying blood. What chances do you foresee with the "wild wild west* they have in their back yard? The tribal residents only recognize, submit and yield in front of brute force. That is where the pakjabi's come handy. Does india wish to take the pakjabi's place? Do you want them to be a part of your beloved india?

[SSridhar]

nvishal, I believe that there is no one silver bullet for the destruction of Pakistan. Both 'isolation' of and 'contact' with Pakistan may need to be employed according to the demands of the situation. But, GoI must conclude first that there is absolutely no other way than the destruction of Pakistan.

[RajeshA]

nvishal ji,

can you tell me, where anybody here advocated taking in Pakjab into India? Also, as I have said, Pakjab would remain between India and the Talibanized Pushtuns, simply because it is there, and not because of some policy on our part. Nobody here is advocating swallowing Pakistan wholly!

In my response to you, I wrote:

The only option is integration of those areas of Pakistan into India which bring more in terms of strategic advantage than they burden us for being Muslim. The rest of the people need to be contained and detoxificated.

I proposed a route in a series of posts - Mohajirstan, Baluchistan and Beyond!

I have also said we try to contain Pakjab, Seraikistan and North Sindh into a quarantine, by cutting off its access to other areas!

The citizens of a country are directly responsible for its military because they enable them through taxes and votes.

Ambhi was voted into power? Considering the level of interest population takes in foreign policy, and considering how much factual information happens to placed in front of them for their consideration, it is a big mouthful to say they are directly responsible. Sure one can say that for rhetorical purposes.

Anyway, if you have further interest in the topic, as I mentioned do read somethings that you may find in the "Managing Pakistan's failure" Thread. It already has 54 pages. There may be something there of interest to you!

[gakakkad]

Shiv's book is a historic work. History researchers in the year 2150 will refer to it as an authoritative text . Some of BRfite lingo too may find its way to future history text.

[Altair]

Shiv's book is a historic work. History researchers in the year 2150 will refer to it as an authoritative text . Some of BRfite lingo too may find its way to future history text.

may be if we can etch it on copper plate and burry it near wagah border, shiv will be referred in future as we refer to valmiki today.
(duck for cover )

[gakakkad]

Archaeology in future would be digging hard drives rather than digging under ground.

[archan]

@RajeshA
OMG! Do you understand the meaning of partition?

India has only two fu@king options to solve its problems: 1) Isolate pakistan or 2) De-partition

These are the ONLY *real* options. There is no other option. What do you have in mind?

I'm gonna have to ask you to calm down.

[Narad]

]
So pakis took KSA money for protecting the man who was allegedly the most anti KSA-monarchy?

Why is it necessary to believe that the saudi money that is being talked about is actually, saudi governments money? I do not suspect the monarchy here.

I believe that the wealthy saudi patrons of wahabi islam must have been funding the pakdullahs to keep Osamaji in good spirit and humour.

[SSridhar]

Pakistan hands over key Bali bombing suspect to Indonesia

An Indonesian militant who allegedly made the explosives used in the 2002 Bali bombings returned to his homeland under tight security on Thursday, more than six months after he was captured in northwest Pakistan.

Umar Patek had a $1 million bounty on his head when authorities caught up with him Jan. 25 in Abbottabad - the same town where Osama bin Laden was killed in a US commando attack four months later.

Indonesia's anti-terrorism chief, Ansyaad Mbai, told The Associated Press that it was no coincidence that Patek turned up in Abbottabad.

"Patek was very valuable for the US," he said Wednesday, hours before the 41-year-old boarded an Indonesian plane sent to a Pakistani air force base just outside Islamabad.

"He helped lead authorities to bin Laden," Mbai said, without elaborating.

[Hiten]

also uploaded Shiv Saar's book in the re-formatted version to Scribd

http://www.scribd.com/doc/62079231/Paki ... iled-State

i hope no text got inadvertently added/edited/deleted in the re-formatted edition. Did not read the new one yet.

[Philip]

The Saudi-Paki embrace is right at the very top.The enormity of the relationship includes N-weapons,ballistic missiles,conduit to China for the same,protecting the Sauudi monarchy,military ties,financial aid-overt and covert,spreading the Wahabi message,funding 5th-columnists and reliigious seminaries within "enemy" states like India,etc.One can go on further.The "axis of evil" against India is actually a Sino-Pak-NoKo-Saudi axis which in recent times has also included Ukraine as a "well-wisher" which has provided China with secret military tech and info of the former USSR.Both China and Pak have obtained much military tech/assistance from IU=Ukraine when it was under an anti-Russian leadership.

[RamaY]

nvishal ji,

you are carrying too much historical weight with you around, which is based on the political acts of some traitor king. That king was a traitor to the cause of Bharat. Does that make the whole population of that area which happens to be of the same genetic stock as us, unworthy of receiving the light of Dharma, even if it has to force-fed?

Besides Pakistan is a wall which is stopping India's march to the West and North, and that wall has to be broken. Instead you are proposing that we huddle ourselves behind this wall and sulk!

Also please read the Chanakya thread in GDF so you can understand how the local population protected Indic interests under the leadership of Chanakya against Ambhi.

[RamaY]

The Saudi-Paki embrace is right at the very top.The enormity of the relationship includes N-weapons,ballistic missiles,conduit to China for the same,protecting the Sauudi monarchy,military ties,financial aid-overt and covert,spreading the Wahabi message,funding 5th-columnists and reliigious seminaries within "enemy" states like India,etc.One can go on further.The "axis of evil" against India is actually a Sino-Pak-NoKo-Saudi axis which in recent times has also included Ukraine as a "well-wisher" which has provided China with secret military tech and info of the former USSR.Both China and Pak have obtained much military tech/assistance from IU=Ukraine when it was under an anti-Russian leadership.

India must remember this in west-asia thread.

[RajeshA]

Also please read the Chanakya thread in GDF so you can understand how the local population protected Indic interests under the leadership of Chanakya against Ambhi.

Thank you, RamaY ji!

[Altair]

Pakistan hands over key Bali bombing suspect to Indonesia

An Indonesian militant who allegedly made the explosives used in the 2002 Bali bombings returned to his homeland under tight security on Thursday, more than six months after he was captured in northwest Pakistan.

Umar Patek had a $1 million bounty on his head when authorities caught up with him Jan. 25 in Abbottabad - the same town where Osama bin Laden was killed in a US commando attack four months later.

Indonesia's anti-terrorism chief, Ansyaad Mbai, told The Associated Press that it was no coincidence that Patek turned up in Abbottabad.

"Patek was very valuable for the US," he said Wednesday, hours before the 41-year-old boarded an Indonesian plane sent to a Pakistani air force base just outside Islamabad.

"He helped lead authorities to bin Laden," Mbai said, without elaborating.

What a load of BS!
However timing is crucial.

[abhischekcc]

@RajeshA
OMG! Do you understand the meaning of partition?

India has only two fu@king options to solve its problems: 1) Isolate pakistan or 2) De-partition

These are the ONLY *real* options. There is no other option. What do you have in mind?

Actually (as JEM put it), there are several options. I personally favor India executing the more violent options, as they will help the nation find closure for all the cruelty the pakis have done towards us.

Revenge does have spiritually positive results, if executed properly.

[RamaY]

Revenge does have spiritually positive results, if executed properly.

Make Prahlads out of Hiranyakasipa's children