Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 11 Aug 2011 11:39

Now is not the time for police to use water cannon and baton rounds
Sir Hugh Orde, the head of the Association of Chief Police Officers
Wednesday 10 August 2011 20.39 BST

As one of only two officers in the country to have ordered the use of water cannon and baton rounds in public-order policing, my professional judgment is it would be the wrong tactic, in the wrong circumstances at this moment. Both require an extremely precise situation. The use of water cannon, while logistically difficult, works against large stationary crowds throwing missiles at police or, as I witnessed in Northern Ireland, at other communities. It achieves distance between police and unlawful crowds that is often vital.

Utilising baton rounds, an even more severe tactic, is fundamentally to protect life. When I ordered their use, again in Northern Ireland, my officers were being attacked by blast bombs and live fire. I would always use both with a heavy heart, but it is always an issue of proportionality.

What we have seen so far from these riots, involving fast-moving and small groups of lawless people, is a situation that merits the opposite end of public-order policing.

This morning, myself and members of police forces around the country had the opportunity to share with the home secretary the tactics that are working and the evidence is that fast arrests, rapid processing of prisoners through the court system, making sure the correct charges are being placed and collecting appropriate evidence through proper, investigative practice, is working. Baton rounds and water cannon were not mentioned once.

Although the policing of disturbances in London on Monday has been widely criticised for lack of arrests, we have learned and moved on quickly from it.

Indeed, events on Monday posed unique difficulties for the deployed 6,000 officers – more than have ever policed an event in London. Making arrests at that time, although some did occur, would not have been sensible; we needed cops on the street to keep the peace and preserve life. We can deal with property loss and damage post-event, and while foresight is not always a commodity afforded to the police, part of any deal is that the police will have to explain themselves to the public

His statement contains two key points

- an admission of failure in terms of the initial response
- a continued insistence on protecting the lives of both citizens and criminals alike over the protection of property

habal · Post by **habal** » 11 Aug 2011 11:56

effectively

-police is only acting as revenue-agents for the govt.
-not interested in protecting property of common citizens, but only the big chains located in city centre.
-discouraging commons from taking law into their hands due to fear of citizens getting too independent-minded and shaking off govt control
-rioters unconsciously acting as vehicles of some new impending govt act.

the Police could have and should have nipped this 'disturbance' in the bud but they to all intents and purposes stood aside and let it go on.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Aug 2011 12:01

last night footage from manchester showed cops giving danda and boot to rioters - mango people are happy
and more worryingly - the opposite fringe have started to emerge, nazi groups are taking to the streets (amongst others) to 'defend' the people from 'dark forces', last night london police had to divert significant resources to deal with them

i say again to those seeing governmental conspiracy here - you need look no further than incompetence and misjudgement

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 11 Aug 2011 12:08

Habal,

Chain stores like Foot Locker and Dixons were some of the first targets in the London riots. The Sony distribution center in Enfield is about as corporate as you can get and the most serious case of arson so far.

The Bullring is the most high profile mall in Birmingham, right smack in the centre of the city and was hit rather badly.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 11 Aug 2011 12:14

Courts running overnight to clear cases of riots

We have arranged for increased capacity in the courts to deal with these cases and will seek remands in custody wherever appropriate.

"We are also advising on the charging of those caught in possession of property that was stolen. Anyone who handles stolen property is just as guilty of an offence as those who steal in the first place."

At Highbury magistrates court in north London, two district judges presided over scores of cases throughout Tuesday night. According to one lawyer about 100 defendants had appeared since 11.30pm on Tuesday, and at one point three custody vans were queueing up outside because there was no room in the lock-u

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 11 Aug 2011 12:34

so many kids in riots raise serious questions

where were the adults to set those boundaries and patrol them? In Clapham, Kelly Hutchings phoned a friend at 2.15am to tell her she could see the woman’s 14-year-old son outside her house. “You’ve just woke me up,” complained the mother.

“It was good, though,” one teenage girl told the BBC, still tiddly from the wine she had looted. “It was fun. Bit of a celebration. Gotta coupla free fings.”

Criminally ill-educated, they seem to lack the mental capacity to feel simple compassion. A Tottenham woman cried as she recalled how youths laughed as she fled her burning building. In Manchester, boys as young as 10 pelted down a street, faces aflicker with Hallowe’en glee.

A report by the Centre for Social Justice found that the UK excels in the three D’s of family breakdown – divorce, dysfunction and dadlessness. Of the 805 violent looters arrested, how many come from homes without a father? I reckon we can guess the answer. A study back in 2001 found that 85 per cent of Indian families were headed by a married couple while 50-60 per cent of black families were headed by a lone parent, usually the mother. Is there anyone who still believes there is no link between that agonising statistic and the young males running amok on our streets?

Immigrants love this country more than we do

This article has caused lot of takleef to locals (whites) read the comments how they disagree

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 11 Aug 2011 12:49

The ethnic timebomb in Britain-England,to be more exact,has been ticking for a long time.Many eyars ago I was taken by a relative-long time resident, on a visit to Southall to see the displaced culture of the sub-continent in full expression.He was a key cog in a group of entities that produced vast amounts of Indian food for Noon and co. The meatmarket was dominated by the Pak immigrant community.The next year he took me back to show me the change that had taken place.The Somalis had been admitted as refugees and they had taken over and booted out the Pakis,being more violent.A Somali "club" was also shown to me,a hole in the street,with a pool table and a bar and groups pof young Somalis drinking away.

This culture of an easy life living on the dole,doing b*gger all,which affords you booze and football,and the essential trappings of the underclass-trainers,punk clothing and your personal music system,has over the years become the cultural staple of the underclass.Acquiring at someone else's cost the latest accessory has spawned a culture of crime and drugs and the growth of the gangs. Tickets to a football match or a rock concert are in far greater demand and often more expensive than attending a classical concert or the opera!

Nevertheless,Britain has much that is good and should be preserved as an example to other nations.Unfortunately,"political correctness" and the mollycoddling of the criminal-intent citizens,is undermining the state.It is simply apalling to see these rioters let off with just warnings.They'll be at it again next time believe you me and nothing will be learnt.They should've been fingerprinted and gvien at least a 6 month sentence of hard labour for first offenders.habitual criminals deported to the Falklands!. Just wait for the heart-rending pleas from do-gooders for the souls of these poor unfortunates,who have had to resort to arson,looting,and violence as cries from the heart!

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 11 Aug 2011 13:48

Philip wrote:It is simply apalling to see these rioters let off with just warnings.They'll be at it again next time believe you me and nothing will be learnt.They should've been fingerprinted and gvien at least a 6 month sentence of hard labour for first offenders.habitual criminals deported to the Falklands!. Just wait for the heart-rending please by do-gooders for the souls of these poor unfortunates who have had to resort to arson,looting,and violence as pleas from the heart!

UK riots: police unhappy at light sentences for looters-Police officers are frustrated about the light sentences handed down by the courts to some of the people who took part in the recent riots, according to a Met commander

it is noteworthy that riot suspects do not include people from Indian subcontinent so far

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 11 Aug 2011 14:56

At least a week in hawalat would be good for these rioters. Immediate release is just a farcical move aimed at appeasement, rather than punishing.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Aug 2011 15:10

the law has got its knickers in a twist over this
under 18's are not going to go to jail or remand centres unless they've done something life threatening
if you're at home and being attacked - you can use reasonable force to stop the attack - but not cross the line from defense to offense, i.e. if you chase the attacker down the street, you will have committed an offense. i expect if you've hit the attacker once then you're ok, but if you give him/her a kicking on your porch on the way out, then you're liable to be arrested
under the current circumstances, enforcement might be a little difficult - so lets see what happens

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Aug 2011 15:14

shiv wrote:
Sanku wrote: GB is like Pakistan pretending to be something else. Very dangerous, you could get fooled into thinking that this place actually has law and order and you are safe.

So yeah my vote for Pakistan.

------------

Of course living in India I don't have to worry about either of the two, but that's just me.
Well you're just one among millions of Indian WKKs rooting for Pakistan. One small step for WWKism.One giant leap for you. No better place than India for this. Congrats!

This is rooting for Pakistan? Well Shiv, what happened to your finely honed sense of sarcasm eh.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 11 Aug 2011 15:20

Riot gear of UK police

nation wide crack down on riot suspects is under way

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 11 Aug 2011 15:28

So these riots are being held to sell riot gear to turd-world countries onlee!!! Like Libya is being used as a theater to sell Typhoons to India! Hmmm....

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 11 Aug 2011 16:42

"Sauce for the goose is also sauce for the gander!"

UK riots: dictatorships around the world use unrest to their advantageGaddafi official calls for Cameron to leave after 'uprising' as Syria and Zimbabwe dub UK foreign policy hypocritical

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/1 ... a-reaction

Some of the world's most notorious dictatorships have been quick to turn the smash-and-grab turmoil in England's cities to their own political advantage.

In Libya, Muammar Gaddafi's deputy foreign minister Khaled Kaaim said: "Cameron and his government must leave after the popular uprising against them and the violent repression of peaceful demonstrations by police.

"Cameron and his government have lost all legitimacy. These demonstrations show that the British people reject this government, which is trying to impose itself through force."

And Libyan state television said Cameron was using "Irish and Scottish mercenaries" to tame riots in England.

"The rebels of Britain approach Liverpool in hit-and-run battles with Cameron's brigades and mercenaries from Ireland and Scotland. God is Greatest," said a breaking news caption on its morning program.

Syria suggested David Cameron's problems in recent days had been nothing compared to what had faced the regime of President Bashar al-Assad. "It's very informative to hear the prime minister of England describing the riots and the rioters in England by using the term gangs," its ambassador to the United Nations Bashar Ja'afari told reporters. "They don't allow us to use the same term for the armed groups and the terrorist groups in my country. This is hypocrisy. This is arrogance.

"London, Birmingham, Bristol is only 1% of what happened in some restive areas of my country."

Britain's deputy ambassador Philip Parham's response to the "absurd comparison" was withering. While his government was handling the riots with "measured, proportionate, legal, transparent steps to restore the rule of law", in Syria, "you have a situation where thousands of unarmed civilians are being attacked and killed … Some 2,000 civilians have now been killed, the vast majority of them unarmed."

And hot on the heels of Iran's request for the United Nations security council to investigate the "violent suppression" of those angry at cuts, Zimbabawe's president Robert Mugabe weighed in, saying Britain should sort out its own problems rather than interfering in other countries.

"Let them attend to their problems now that they are experiencing problems, which have dogged other countries before and they have in those circumstances accused those countries of lacking freedom.

"Let them tell us what is happening whether there is lack of freedom or it's something else. Britain now is on fire, London especially and we hope that they will extinguish their fire. They should pay attention to their internal problems and to that fire, which is blazing all over and leave us alone because we do not have any fire here. We don't want them to continue creating unnecessary problems in our country. We want peace … the people of Zimbabwe want peace ."

Meanwhile, in Malaysia, home of student Ashraf Haziq, victim of one of the most shocking attacks during the London unrest, a police chief has used the experience of British police officers in recent days recent days to justify crackdowns on street protest. Deputy national police chief Khalid Abu Bakar said the rioting and looting were "nightmares that we are fighting hard to avoid and prevent".

Protests "should always be avoided as we will never know what it can turn into," Khalid said in a statement on Wednesday. "Praise to God, we are able to avoid these scary and tragic scenes from erupting here in our beloved country."

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 11 Aug 2011 16:48

Would you guys believe the $hit that some of the stuff looted from stores made it to ebay! Hilarious man! Some people are in it for just easy money. May be a more than a few.I have no idea.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 11 Aug 2011 17:23

Sanku wrote: If this is the great Britian that Shiv holds as model for India to be? I would much rather be like Pakistan thank you. At least in Pakistan things are clear.

GB is like Pakistan pretending to be something else. Very dangerous, you could get fooled into thinking that this place actually has law and order and you are safe.

So yeah my vote for Pakistan.

Sankuji, you are absolutely correct. Because UKstanis cannot let go of their "hubris" and root for pakistan at the drop of the hat. First time I feel sorry for pakis as, even if pakis want to let go of pakistan and pakistaniyat, UKstanis will not allow that. Well, UKstanis would give up Londonistan before they give up pakistan.
Here is a data point:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-14456635

El Pais, Spain

The Express Tribune, Pakistan

Watch who is on the top of the list of world reactions... The hubris is really tough.
Well, these guys even if it were say ex-PMs such as Tony Blair, Brown or whoever, if they write a memoir they wouldn't bat an eyelid to include 30,0000 deaths of innocent minorities in Godhra, just as slick willy does. They would want this to be the part of the narrative, while praising hosanas to pakis.

And you are to believe, the hubris carriers have turned and different from 1947. Just changing the attire to sheep's clothing would not make it, got to watch out for it.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 11 Aug 2011 19:23

British rioters the spawn of a bankrupt ruling elite
Theodore Dalrymple

THE riots in London and elsewhere in Britain are a backhanded tribute to the long-term intellectual torpor, moral cowardice, incompetence and careerist opportunism of the British political and intellectual class.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/op ... 6112640970

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Aug 2011 19:49

Philip, There are lessons to be learned on handling small fast moving crowds without deadly force. I think GOI is also keenly watching the tactics that work and dont work.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 11 Aug 2011 20:59

ramana wrote:Philip, There are lessons to be learned on handling small fast moving crowds without deadly force. I think GOI is also keenly watching the tactics that work and dont work.

Couple of years back in Kolkata similar riot broke out where small mobs of 300-400 were moving rapidly from one street to another in Central Kolkata (which is heavily congested) and police were unable to contain them. Fortunately it didn't escalate into a full blown riot.

Gangs ferried thugs into riot hotspots by bus and were orchestrating violence, say police

In Manchester, a suspected gang boss Dominic Noonan was seen allegedly helping organise riots on his mobile phone, according to The Telegraph.
Amateur footage showed Noonan, the subject of a 2007 documentary A Very British Gangster, talking to a group of looters carrying a plasma TV.
Peter Fahy, chief constable of Greater Manchester Police, has said he believes the violence was 'organised and orchestrated'.
Home Office sources said earlier this week that 'several hundred' ringleaders had already been traced as part of the intelligence operation.
One official said: 'Many of these people are part of organised criminal gangs. We know who they are and we can see who else they are talking to. We are using all the resources at our disposal. This is a national priority.'

notorious gangster Noonan in Manchester riots

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 11 Aug 2011 22:56

The question that should naturally arise is that, if gangsters are orchestrating everything, why are they doing it now? Any regime that takes steps against this generalized, and rapidly spreading network of street violence will pay for it politically in those segments. So are gangsters being motivated politically?

Large scale criminal networks can sustain themselves only if they manage to fill in a political niche - where they become invaluable allies of specific influential political forces. The reasons behind the survival of D-company and Noonan - are essentially the same.

Secret service often use them, have moles inside their networks with the full knowledge of the leaders - and they serve as complementary black-ops forces for objectives that are not doable formally in the public legitimate arena. Of course sometimes things get out of control - but then it means that multiple political forces have been playing.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 12 Aug 2011 03:31

UK riots: suspected Manchester gangster Dominic Noonan arrested

Manchester's most notorious suspected gang boss, Dominic Noonan, has been arrested after being seen allegedly helping to orchestrate the wave of violence and looting that swept the city on Tuesday night.
But despite the ferocity of the violence, much of the looting appeared to be more systematic than has been seen elsewhere, with the thugs carefully targeting specific shops and clearing out the items of the highest value.
The windows Svarovski and Links, the jewellery stores, were kicked in and every single glass cabinet was smashed and emptied of bracelets and necklaces, platinum cufflinks and diamond rings.

Police got it wrong-PM

Among arrested Olympic ambassador and athlete-Chelsea Ives

Olympic ambassador 'hurled bricks at police car' and led attack on Vodafone store during riots

Daughter of millionaire among arrested as well

Kanishka · Post by **Kanishka** » 12 Aug 2011 03:45

X-posted from the Australian dhaga

What Australians think about the riots in UK..
Read the comments.

British rioters the spawn of a bankrupt ruling elite
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/op ... 6112640970

One of the comments:

michael of Brisbane Posted at 9:04 AM August 11, 2011

There is also a fair degree of hypocrisy going on that i think probably fuels the discord. Bankers loose billions of dollars through dodgy lending practices that causes major government cuts. Do any bankers get held to account? No, they get away with it. Journalists spy on members of the public for a decade, do they get held to account? Maybe only now and through no effort of those in positions of power such as the police. Politicians rort the system and steal money from the public. Do they go to jail? Not a chance. Little wonder these people think they can get away with whatever they want. It works for the bankers, journalists and politicians of the country, so why not them?

Comment 35 of 160

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 12 Aug 2011 03:56

Kanishka wrote: It works for the bankers, journalists and politicians of the country, so why not them?

This is the start of the anarchy. When justice is not uniform it start rippling across

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 12 Aug 2011 03:57

Iran ready to send peacekeepers to UK. Press TV. Take it for what its worth.

Commander of Iran's Basij Force says it is ready to deploy peacekeeper forces in London as the unrest in the British capital drags on despite tightened security measures.

“If the UN General Assembly approves, the Basij Organization is ready to send a number of Ashura and al-Zahra brigades to Liverpool and Birmingham as peacekeepers to monitor observation of human rights laws and deter use of force,” he added.

And, for good measure the Commander added:

“This is the beginning if the road and the UK regime has to pay the price for the massacres in Africa, wars and bloodshed in the Indian peninsula, crimes in China, the fall of the Ottoman Empire and bloody conflicts among Muslims and followers of other faiths,” the brigadier noted.

Added later:

'UK should accept Iran's investigators'

A political analyst says the British government should accept Iran's offer to send a group of rapporteurs to investigate human rights violations in Britain.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 12 Aug 2011 06:34

More whine dressed up as wisdom...

The moral decay of our society is as bad at the top as the bottom

But there was also something very phony and hypocritical about all the shock and outrage expressed in parliament. MPs spoke about the week’s dreadful events as if they were nothing to do with them.

I cannot accept that this is the case. Indeed, I believe that the criminality in our streets cannot be dissociated from the moral disintegration in the highest ranks of modern British society. The last two decades have seen a terrifying decline in standards among the British governing elite. It has become acceptable for our politicians to lie and to cheat. An almost universal culture of selfishness and greed has grown up.

Yawn. So what's new. Brit governing elite's daily diet contained moral fibre enough to wink at (if not actively precipitate) genocide in far away lands over the ages. Today the descendents of 'em victims of the white man's burdens are rioting for fun, so whay would the same elite get its knickers in a twist, eh?

Most of the people in this very expensive street were every bit as deracinated and cut off from the rest of Britain as the young, unemployed men and women who have caused such terrible damage over the last few days. For them, the repellent Financial Times magazine How to Spend It is a bible. I’d guess that few of them bother to pay British tax if they can avoid it, and that fewer still feel the sense of obligation to society that only a few decades ago came naturally to the wealthy and better off.

Aah. Welcome to the road to turd worldliness.... the riots are a sideshow. The real story is what happens to such societies under the shadow of scarcity - when there's not enough dole to dish out to way too many needies and claimants. WHo gets thrown under the bus first? Who next? The political process of rationing essential services under assterity should merit keen observation by the rest of the world. Its a pointer to what'll visit elsewhere soon only, I fear...

Meanwhile more examples of moral fiber in the writer's constipated diet....

A few weeks ago, I noticed an item in a newspaper saying that the business tycoon Sir Richard Branson was thinking of moving his headquarters to Switzerland. This move was represented as a potential blow to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, George Osborne, because it meant less tax revenue.

I couldn’t help thinking that in a sane and decent world such a move would be a blow to Sir Richard, not the Chancellor. People would note that a prominent and wealthy businessman was avoiding British tax and think less of him. Instead, he has a knighthood and is widely feted. The same is true of the brilliant retailer Sir Philip Green. Sir Philip’s businesses could never survive but for Britain’s famous social and political stability, our transport system to shift his goods and our schools to educate his workers.

Yet Sir Philip, who a few years ago sent an extraordinary £1 billion dividend offshore, seems to have little intention of paying for much of this. Why does nobody get angry or hold him culpable? I know that he employs expensive tax lawyers and that everything he does is legal, but he surely faces ethical and moral questions just as much as does a young thug who breaks into one of Sir Philip’s shops and steals from it?

Muawawawawa ....am loving this. LOL
(Yup, for the whiners who may as well show up, yes, India has all these faults and more only. But then we are boor dirty toilet-less SDREs only,saar, so what else can be expected of us, huh? Now can we go back to fo-cuss-ing on TFTA ~~Shittistan~~ Brittistan please?)

sumishi · Post by **sumishi** » 12 Aug 2011 06:59

brihaspati wrote:The question that should naturally arise is that, if gangsters are orchestrating everything, why are they doing it now? ...

Isn't it a great time to divert attention from the economic collapse facing the western nations? Also, blaming the Internet (twitter etc) for helping the organisation of the rioting is another step towards officially clamping down on the Internet and free speech and information flow. Internet/free speech is the greatest danger to the global elites.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 12 Aug 2011 07:11

So are gangsters being motivated politically?

Detective Thomson: It is handiwork of few people.
Detective Thompson: Err.., to be precise, it is handiwork of few people.

Heard in the background...
Blistering barnacles, thundering typhoons! where is tin tin when you need him to solve the case.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 12 Aug 2011 09:39

Blistering barnacles, thundering typhoons! where is tin tin when you need him to solve the case.

Tin Tin in Tibet!

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 12 Aug 2011 10:10

Since there was huge financial losses and many are claiming insurance, why not make the rioters pay for their mistakes. If they don't have money, they have to work until the loss are covered.
India can have such laws that will make the rioter or the person who indulges in destruction of public or private property to pay for it. If he don't have any property or money on his own that can be handed over to the govt, why not make the person work. We can have rules or laws like that, especially in jails. Rather than feed criminals, let the criminals be a source of income for the nation. Cant this be done?

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 12 Aug 2011 10:48

Of course it can be done. Tihar is an industry, they churn out products branded "made in tihar jail" stuff that is available in the markets.Read here http://tihartj.nic.in/

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 12 Aug 2011 11:53

the rioters can be put to 'community service' work, clearing up the mess

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 12 Aug 2011 12:01

looting reminds of LA riots

uh...desperately trying to do an equal equal, such things have happened in US as well (so its OK), LA riots are being discussed here and there on TV, how can they equate with some thing that happened 20 years ago? The only similar riots happened in Greece, I m sure US is quick to learn and they will not allow unruly uncouth mob putting property on fire in similar event.

Broom army photo an internet sensation

damage control exercise....

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 12 Aug 2011 12:03

IndraD, similar riots happened in the late 70's and early 80's in England - but in those days there was a "blacks against white_police" political backdrop. now its poor+anarchists vs. rich+state, but actions on the ground are similar

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 12 Aug 2011 13:25

Young offenders make mockery of British justice system

One 15-year-old looter quoted in yesterday's Mail summed up the defiance: 'They can't touch me, I'm still a kid . . . what is the worst they can do? Give me a caution or a curfew I won't obey.'

Sadly, he's absolutely right. While magistrates yesterday did seem to be cracking down on adult offenders, some of whom will get custodial sentences, almost everyone under 18 will end up with the ultra-soft, kid-gloves treatment I've seen being handed out on a daily basis.

Even those who are imprisoned will spend their days watching TV and playing video games. A colleague working in a youth detention centre recently told me he is no longer allowed to call their rooms 'cells' because it infringed their human rights. And these were offenders who'd done very bad things, including sexual assault and extreme violence.

Young offenders being let off

as the vast majority of young children appearing before courts were released under referral orders, which oblige them only to meet support workers or observe curfews.

Many violent kids spat and showed middle finger as they left court room after being apologetic in front of judge !

Absent parents-A judge in Manchester highlighted the absence of their parents at yesterday's hearings.
One looter, a girl aged 14, had taken clothing and a mannequin from a Diesel designer store in the city worth £400.
She was accompanied in court only by her sister as Judge Jonathan Feinstein heard how she had been expelled from school and showed little remorse.
The judge said: 'The parents have to take responsibility for this child – apart from one case I have not seen any father or mother in court.'

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 12 Aug 2011 13:44

The act in the above pic with youngster of non-coloured origin represents the idea of the nation and erstwhile colonizers?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 12 Aug 2011 16:22

A few years ago,I made a special trip to N.Ireland to see how the Good Friday Agreement was catching on.Belfast was a revelation.I took the fast-cat ferry from Scotland.On entering the harbour one saw the famour Harland and Wolf shipyard languishing,with heaps of rusted oil platforms like alien sea-creatures greeting one's entrance. The city however was bustling,full of hope.People seemed happy and cheerful.I saw a great play ,a sell-out house in the old opera house (which pleasantly was full of Indian motifs and character in its interior) "Give my head Peace",based upon a popular satirical TV serial of the "Troubles",as the ancient sectarian conflict between Republcian Catholics and Protestants loyal to the British crown was called.

The customary "Black Cab" tour took me to both sides of the battle lines-war zones in fact, between the two "Christian" factions.My guide told me that the biggest problem then in N.Ireland/Belfast was the rivalry between Protestant gangs,who were fighting for control of the spoils from vice and crime.The day I arrived had headlines about a Proddy leader,known as the "Brigadier",fleeing to Scotland for his life after his rival Proddies went after him using the same fast-cat ferry! But what distinguishes the "policing" in N.Ireland and that on the mainland is the liberal use of firearms aganist the Irish (foreigners) and the great reluctance to use it on the English mainland.This must also be examined in the light of the shooting of a Brazilian electrician- on the tube,mistaken for a terrorist,after the London underground Islamist terror bombings and the shooting of the young Black in a vehicle-again mistakenly thought to have shot at the police,which sparked off the current conflagration.The storm that developed after the Brazilian man was shot still reverberates and the latest unfortunate shooting too wil similarly go on for years.

I find it strange that a police force which so readily shot two innocent men by mistake,was so reluctant to take stronger measures at confirmed rioters,looters,assailants-there is a lovely description for this in the British police manual,"affray",and even murderers! The absurdity of it all was a front page report in a Britsh newspaper,with Cameron's dire warning's to the criminals ,with the fact that they've been let off by the courts and are back on the streets...ready to riot,loot and scoot again at the next opportunity!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 36535.html

Police chief hits back at critics

By Tom Morgan and James Tapsfield
Friday, 12 August 2011

Britain's top officers hit back at criticism from politicians today as they insisted tactical decisions at the riots were the sole responsibility of police.
In an apparent dig at senior figures - such as the Prime Minister and Home Secretary - who were on holiday when the trouble erupted, Scotland Yard's acting commissioner Tim Godwin said comments were being made by people "who weren't there".

"Cameron's Law"..to come shortly.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/

Click to watch video Cameron's law: PM planning crackdown
Police to have power to shut down social networks, remove hoodies and facial coverings, while looters could lose homes and benefits.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 12 Aug 2011 16:35

Police-politician rift emerges

something of a verbal tussle has broken out between ministers and the police.
It boils down to a question of competence and who made the crucial decisions earlier this week.

The prime minister has criticised the number of police officers deployed in the first few nights of rioting, and their tactics.

The home secretary has done the same.

Sir Hugh Orde, the President of the Association of Chief Police Officers, is having none of it.

He said politicians flying back from their holidays were an "irrelevance" when it came to the shift in the police's approach.

He has denied there is any "rift" between the police and the government.

this is a useful article

New report says racism still rife in police force-Stop-and-search powers directed more than ever against black Britons

The review's findings, contained in a report, "The Stephen Lawrence Inquiry 10 Years On", to be published later this month, are dismissive of police claims to have increased the number of black officers: "While much is made of the fact that the percentage of officers from these backgrounds has doubled between 1999 and 2008, in reality this is only from a relatively low starting point of 2% to approximately 4%. This is considerably below the national target (7%) set for the police service overall

The review is also critical of the police's ability to retain black and ethnic minority staff. "Research examining why officers left the service has indicated that those from black and minority ethnic groups are more likely to have been dismissed or required to resign compared with their white counterparts (8.5% and 1.7% respectively) or to have left following voluntary resignation (46.6% of leavers from black and minority ethnic backgrounds and 25.9% of all leavers from white backgrounds.)"

Police forces face threat of 'racist' label over stop and searches-Equalities watchdog warns of enforcement action against forces that excessively target people from ethnic minorities]

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Aug 2011 16:57

Posting in full
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?create ... 4112918087

Regime Launches Brutal Attack on Peaceful Pro-Democracy Protesters in Bilayatstan
by Abdul Enqyoob
Dera Bradford Khan, August 12, 2011. BENIS news

Disturbing images are emerging, of the brutal crackdown by police hired by the unpopular regime of the Family that has been ruling this remote island nation off the coast of Iceland. Details are hard to obtain because foreign news teams have been attacked with no provocation and forced off the streets, but images smuggled out by some intrepid reporters and witnesses show children as young as 14 being dragged away, their hands tied using metal chains behind their backs, by armed men wearing the uniforms of the feared Queen's Police.

Authoritative sources who spoke on condition of anonymity because they are not allowed to speak to the media and fear reprisals from the brutal authorities, stated that thousands of unarmed protesters have been beaten up, chained, thrown into unheated lorries with blacked out, metal-grilled windows, and dragged off to unspecified locations. Their frantic relatives have been searching the neighborhoods where they were last seen, but even they are arrested if seen going into the many stores that remain open after their owners ran away following several days of the brutal crackdown.

"The latest protests grew after the brutal murder of a young, unarmed man who was sitting peacefully inside a taxi" said an authoritative source. But this was just an indication of how the regime had planned all along to use any excuse to arrest and torture young people who have become disillusioned after 600 years of unbroken tyranny from this Family who consider themselves to be "Royal".

"The regime has unleashed the dogs of tyranny" said a young mother of sixteen. "We have nowhere to hide because the Police are raiding our slums, so we have to come out at night on to the street".

"Where is Mr. Obama? Where is NATO? Where is the UN? " asked Abdul B., a young bearded man of 53 who runs a madarssa in Faisalabad, who had come on vacation to Dera Bradford Khan, not far from Londonabad.

BENIS notes: Bilayatstan has fought 200 wars in the past century with all of its neigbbors as well as with nations far from its shores, the latest when it attacked the peaceful benevolent regime of Al Haj Muammar Gaddafi without any provocation. Most of the so-called treasures stored in the National Museum of Bilayatstan, and even the Crown Jewels worn by the Family, are stolen items looted from various other nations, usually after murdering their rightful owners.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 12 Aug 2011 18:30

Neither the police nor the gov can really carry out much of their threats as they are going to be immensely politically costly. They will therefore buildup the psychological fear as much as possible. But the brains behind the unrest know very well that all they need to do is to sit it out, as simple politics will determine a soft landing.

I am sure they all will find a convenient scapegoat in targeted ethnic communities that leaves everyone except an electorally insignificant minority, very very happy.

The observation that police use more deadly force against visually discernible "un-British"-ness compared to visually "British", is and was always true. Every nation-state's police force is bravest, and most ruthless, against social segments they know will not be able to retaliate. The knowledge that the entire political, moral and penalizing resources of a nation state will back you up if you target the "targetable" - gives immense confidence to pursue persona fantasies of sadistic enjoyment of vicarious power. When really cornered, and faced with the prospect of annihilation or treatment that they mete out to their victims often from the safety of their stations or remand centres, brings out more whining and begging and cowardice than they ever see in their victims.

If the rioters had struck any of these police officers - that then would unleash the real storm. For the life and H&D of the police is immensely more valuable than that of the subject population that they are supposed to police.

By the way - UKstan has always been a riot haven. It has always always rioted - and in spite of my aversion for vulgar Marxism, I cannot but help seeing the standard pattern of a blood-sucking elite that resulted from politically auto-erotic orgasmic frenzy of repeated layers of culture-destroying, looting, band of marauders and invaders, siphoning off people's resources for their personal pleasures. This in turn provided disincentive for the commons to be productive and just like the Moghuls needed an increasing state coercive machinery to keep down dissent.

Not many are aware of this but UK is one long history of underclass uprisings which as in many other places were mostly unsuccessful. Peasant uprisings and dissentw ere a common feature of the medieval period - and at least one king deceptively drew the leader of one such uprising to be ambushed an massacred on the pretext of "parley". The reasons for the uprising have also been pretty consistent. One of teh first historically known uprisings is supposed to be that by Budica - a widowed wife of a Celto-Breton chief, whose husband had allied with the romans perhaps out of domestic political concerns, and who before his death as per Roman claims had left his property willed to the Romans. The Romans in their typical rapist looting enslaving mindset came and tool possession, and supposedly also took public pleasure with Budica's daughters as part of the spoils [written by a Roman who therefore did not think the act impossible for Romans even if it is propaganda and boasting by Thaparite logic]. This led to the first historically recorded case of "rioting" in which the then early Roman colony of London was burned to the ground and its Roman inhabitants massacared. Budica was eventually killed and her army destroyed by the coordinated Roman military machine.

Same was the story with the north - where natives constantly harassed Romans, and Hadrians wall was the result, but even this did not protect the south, and once Romans withdrew, the whole country descended into chaos, looting, rioting [plenty of archeological proof]. Saxons were invited as mercenaries by the splintered polity who took possession of the land and the women, and another bout of rioting resulted. In their turn, Danes and Vikings started landing, enslaving and another bout of rioting. We still see the genetic proof of this in having the older male gene-pool being replaced across the so-called middle-England viking line. Note that even if each of Saxon or Danish/Vikings invasions were supposedly resisted or repulsed - they sequentially form the elite and form kingdoms. It is a Saxonic/Viking polity that is replaced by William - himself a grandson of a Viking looter and rioter who had established himself in northern France. After William won at Hastings, he enforced marraiges with Saxon heiresses - widowed or otherwise, and simply gave away older Saxon fiefs to his looting companions. His taxation policies were one of the first signs of the looting machine that the British rashtra perfected for the benefit of the elite. Subsequent history of royal politics was a history of extreme opportunism, immorality even by their own touted standards, brutal and bloody coercion of the population to maintain extremes of exploitation, and a continuous series of peasant and underclass uprisings that led ultimately to the middle orders briefly asserting themselves at the regicide of Charles I.

Since then part of the upper-middle orders have been coopted into the ruling power structure through parliamentary restructuring, but the result is an elite that lives in an entirely separate world of luxury and guaranteed consumption [can William earn his keep for example? Or the various tycoons whose wealth swim in warm tropical waters away from taxation in the island dank and rains].

This is an extremely brutalized society with a long millenial level continuous history of brutalization at the hands of elite, and whose cultural poverty is starkly exemplified in the elite's open admiration of the "Roman empire" which beat the Brits to a pulp - but a hatred of the poor Italian [and Pope] which could not hold onto sadistic imperium, or the Greeks who lost their dominance, or the Welsh/Irish/Scotts who resisted but were defeated and often had richer cultures than the band of looters that became British aristos. It is the same bootlicking of the strong master and kicking the poor dog mentality that despises and constructs racist theories based on historical military defeats or victories.

The basis of British social psychology is in an obsession with violence and social coercion, where the ruling elite adopted the late Roman imperial tactics of keeping the city mobs happy by throwing them basic biological needs. In return there is always the coerced underclass counter pressure. But to maintain that Romans needed more wars abroad and colonial extraction of such biological resources - and slaves.

Roman senate-assembly - British Hse of Lords/parliament
Roman arena --- soccer stadia
Roman Knights in charge of districts of the city of Rome - gangsters
Roman free grain/bread - social-welfare payments
Roman slaves/indentured-labour - immigrants

In fact one will be able to see many uncanny parallels with the growth and decline phases of the Roman empire compacted perhaps just into a few centuries in UK.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 12 Aug 2011 18:37

Charles Dickens I think has an entire novel devoted to a storyline based on "rioting" - Barnaby Rudge.