Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 2011

sum · Post by **sum** » 17 Aug 2011 21:20

IIRC, the IA is OK with pullback if the lines are agreed to on a map and signed off by both sides.

IA is ready even after the Kargil experience?

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 17 Aug 2011 21:21

Cosmo_R wrote:IIRC, the IA is OK with pullback if the lines are agreed to on a map and signed off by both sides.

I thought otherwise! I don't think, IA is comfortable with any pullout, and rightly so!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Aug 2011 21:32

LOL! I think this McCain (loser to black man Ombaba) is being given too much importance. He is simply visiting onlee. Nothing will change in Siachen. Please archive this statement and haul me up anytime in the next five years if I am wrong. The US is mostly begging Pakistan for help and is hardly going to get sympathy in India. McCain is a nobody (absolute zero) and Omar Abdulla is 1% more than nobody in India.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 17 Aug 2011 21:33

RajeshA wrote:
SSridhar wrote:"The two leaders discussed matters relating to the socio-economic development and protection of environment, an official spokesman said."

Right! McCain discussing the environment! May be if he had brought Al Gore along, the explanation may have been more believable.

Bombs do cause a lot of pollution..McCain may have warned that more pollution is on the way with bigger and better droneacharyas..

sum · Post by **sum** » 17 Aug 2011 21:39

McCain is a nobody (absolute zero) and Omar Abdulla is 1% more than nobody in India.

The only place OA is somebody seems to be NDTV.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 17 Aug 2011 21:39

The US proposing construction of a dam in POK. Got it via an email AfPak Channel.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/08/16/2 ... stani.html

Diamer Basha, to be located on the Indus River, would provide 4,500 megawatts of power, roughly the country's current shortfall, though it would take some eight years to build.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 17 Aug 2011 21:44

McCain was sent to deliver a warning, Not One more Body bag from your part of the world. He probably did not inform the Pakistanis about his Kashmir trip.The visit to Kashmir was probably to scare Pakistan. Nothing but hot air visit.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 17 Aug 2011 21:55

maybe he was discovering the delights of the markhor as opined by his pakistani interlocuters?

subodh · Post by **subodh** » 17 Aug 2011 21:59

shiv wrote:LOL! I think this McCain (loser to black man Ombaba) is being given too much importance. He is simply visiting onlee. Nothing will change in Siachen. Please archive this statement and haul me up anytime in the next five years if I am wrong. The US is mostly begging Pakistan for help and is hardly going to get sympathy in India. McCain is a nobody (absolute zero) and Omar Abdulla is 1% more than nobody in India.

Dr - you are very astute. I live in masaland, and you are on the mark - this is a 'has been'. He remains a senior senator, capable of causing problems and dishing out pain on whim - but the republican party is now in the midst of figuring out the coming election, and the last round's loser is the very last person they will be caring about.

Also, the visible face of the party is now a lot more conservative and disciplined, the 'maverick' label that was a brief positive in the last cycle for mccain is now probably a bad idea - the senior folk in the party value 'sticking to the script', especially on fiscal issues, and mccain is a self-professed lost cause there.

This trip is more about his role on the senate armed forces comittee as ranking member, and trying to keep up with kerry and his globe trotting. Neitehr obama, hillary nor the next president, who ever that will be, is going to give a rat's behind about this person's recommendations.

also - on a personal level, mccain has a gigantic ego, and folk like that are sensitive to gestures and public displays of the acknowledgement of their importance. the senate is sitting on stuff that obama and the democrats would like mccain to break away from the republicans to vote on their side, or at least to appear wavering - and offerring him an 'important' trip to a 'strategic' region, is one way to stoke his ego.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 17 Aug 2011 22:15

maybe he's researching for his book?

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 17 Aug 2011 22:59

One of environment related issues could be the harmful impact on local ecology caused by Hindoo pilgrims to Amarnath and Kheer Bhawani. Siachen is just a smoke screen

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Aug 2011 23:19

shiv wrote:LOL! I think this McCain (loser to black man Ombaba) is being given too much importance. He is simply visiting onlee. Nothing will change in Siachen. Please archive this statement and haul me up anytime in the next five years if I am wrong. The US is mostly begging Pakistan for help and is hardly going to get sympathy in India. McCain is a nobody (absolute zero) and Omar Abdulla is 1% more than nobody in India.

Since Adalai Stevenson in the mid 1950s, loosing American Presidential candidates meddle in Cashmere.

It makes them feel important on world stage.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 17 Aug 2011 23:47

ramana wrote: LOL! I think this McCain (loser to black man Ombaba) is being given too much importance. He is simply visiting onlee. Nothing will change in Siachen. Please archive this statement and haul me up anytime in the next five years if I am wrong. The US is mostly begging Pakistan for help and is hardly going to get sympathy in India. McCain is a nobody (absolute zero) and Omar Abdulla is 1% more than nobody in India.

Since Adalai Stevenson in the mid 1950s, loosing American Presidential candidates meddle in Cashmere.

It makes them feel important on world stage.

Never allow americans to meddle in Kashmir and
Kashmir reached it zenith before most of civilization.
Indian Kashmir has been around even before America was born.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 18 Aug 2011 00:00

Acharya wrote: Never allow americans to meddle in Kashmir and
Kashmir reached it zenith before most of civilization.
Indian Kashmir has been around even before America was born.

What leverage does India have over US? Soon after Pokhran-II, BJ Clinton said "we will come down on these guys like a ton of bricks", and soon after HalfBright stared this Kashmir is a nuke flashpoint mantra. And this is only the tip of the ice berg. US can cause heartburn to India over Kashmir if they choose to. At the UN, US proposes, and the rest dispose. There would be no Kashmir issue but for US/UK perfidy in the UN, and of course Nehru's colossal blunder.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 18 Aug 2011 00:54

30 killed as heavy rains cause flood in Pakistan

At least 30 people were killed and one million people affected as floods triggered by heavy monsoon rains have devastated parts of southern Pakistan.

Chief minister Qaim Ali Shah of the southern Sindh province said the rains and breaches in canals had affected about one million people in six districts.

Badin district has been hit hardest by monsoon rains and some parts of it are under four to five feet of water. Eighty per cent of crops in the district have been destroyed and hundreds of villages have been submerged due to a breach in Asia's biggest saline nullah.

Besides Badin, the floods have affected the districts of Tando Mohammad Khan, Mirpurkhas, Thar, Umerkot and Tando Allahyar.

In Punjab, heavy rains have caused flash floods in Sialkot and Kasur districts.

The current flooding has stemmed from heavy rains across Pakistan, as opposed to last year when torrential downpours in the north sent a series of floods cascading through the country as rivers overflowed their banks

watch for more news in the coming weeks.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 18 Aug 2011 00:55

Meta-question: why is McCain's visit to J&K being discussed on the TSP thread? I do not concede TSP any locus standi in J&K, so why would an American senator visiting TSP and J&K in sequence make that different?

subodh · Post by **subodh** » 18 Aug 2011 00:57

A_Gupta wrote:Meta-question: why is McCain's visit to J&K being discussed on the TSP thread? I do not concede TSP any locus standi in J&K, so why would an American senator visiting TSP and J&K in sequence make that different?

Maybe because he came from TSP and one guesses he carries water for them on this.

Not that it matters one whit, he is a nobody, and his activities should be treated with indifference and hair-trigger contempt if he tries to 'make a difference'.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 18 Aug 2011 01:09

A-Gupta-saar has a point. This should go in Indo-US thread. Not even JK thread

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 18 Aug 2011 01:10

CRamS wrote:
What leverage does India have over US? Soon after Pokhran-II, BJ Clinton said "we will come down on these guys like a ton of bricks", and soon after HalfBright stared this Kashmir is a nuke flashpoint mantra. And this is only the tip of the ice berg. US can cause heartburn to India over Kashmir if they choose to. At the UN, US proposes, and the rest dispose. There would be no Kashmir issue but for US/UK perfidy in the UN, and of course Nehru's colossal blunder.

Do you want India to capitulate and let them run the country. Best of luck to them.
At the peak of the US global reach they had the support of the entire world to back them
Now in the opposite spectrum they have less leverage over India.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 18 Aug 2011 01:14

RajeshA wrote:
Right! McCain discussing the environment! May be if he had brought Al Gore along, the explanation may have been more believable.

Other than excersizing some off-season discounts for massage, what would Gore-sahib do, saar?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 18 Aug 2011 01:43

Acharya wrote:
CRamS wrote:
Do you want India to capitulate and let them run the country. Best of luck to them.
At the peak of the US global reach they had the support of the entire world to back them
Now in the opposite spectrum they have less leverage over India.

My point is not that there is any imminent intention on the part of US to hurt India over Kashmir. Just that US, even through ostensible non-meddling, have enormous influence over the course of events. As I said, everybody knew Fai was an ISI stooge, it took US to declare so until the traitors who contol the Kashmir discourse in India and hob knobbed with Fai suffered some embarassement.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 18 Aug 2011 01:48

krisna wrote:30 killed as heavy rains cause flood in Pakistan

watch for more news in the coming weeks.

It is Ramadan and Allah is meherban season. I will not put it beyond Bakis to release Dam water and create an artificial flood so that Zakath can be extorted from the international community. I am sure there are enough photograps on the net from last year that can be recycled and used again this year.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 18 Aug 2011 01:50

India can take of such things if wanted. India made sure that AfPak Halbrooke did not enter India.
India has not created the lobby for its national interest and national security.
Only after Op Parakram India could make some deal with other nations regarding 'strategic Dialogue on terrorism'.
This is how it works. India needs some cards to play.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 18 Aug 2011 01:53

@sum and RajeshA ^^^: I remember reading about this a few months ago (that the IA was on board with demarcated lines on map signed off by both parties). I may have misread it. I will look for this and in the interim if anyone can come up with IA pro or con on this it would be a great help.

BTW, mea culpa for responding in the TSP thread, I responded without looking at the thread title. Agree, locus standi issues are important.

Mauryan · Post by **Mauryan** » 18 Aug 2011 02:33

Nawaz shattered Two-Nation Theory through ‘rhetoric’
http://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-news ... h-rhetoric

“If he is that fond of Indian culture, he should return to his ancestor’s lad Jati Umra,” he added while talking to media here at JI office. He said that the contents of Mian Nawaz Sharif’s statement were highly worrying for the entire nation. “He (Sharif) says that Muslims and Hindus worship same God. It sounds as if he is ignorant of basic teachings of Islam,” he maintained. He said that Nawaz Sharif’s claim that Hindus and Muslims possessed same culture and language was no more than a hilarious statement.

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 18 Aug 2011 02:55

a la McDonald's store: pakistan people's party has an outlet in Australia http://ppp.org.au/

jash_p · Post by **jash_p** » 18 Aug 2011 03:23

Quote:
The current flooding has stemmed from heavy rains across Pakistan, as opposed to last year when torrential downpours in the north sent a series of floods cascading through the country as rivers overflowed their banks

watch for more news in the coming weeks.

AOA

Allah have provided another chance to earn few Billion dollars by begging.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 18 Aug 2011 03:26

Check the last one and see the reason why ISI is the best in the world

saip · Post by **saip** » 18 Aug 2011 03:41

They are no one and RAW is a pathetic no 9. But whenever anything happens in Pakiland RAW gets the blame Go figure.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 18 Aug 2011 04:49

AoA! Seventeen killed in Karachi including PPP’s Waja Karim

At least 17 people were killed including Pakistan Peoples Party’s (PPP) ex-MNA and leader Waja Karim Dad in incidents of firing and grenade attacks in Karachi on Wednesday.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Aug 2011 05:19

McCain's visit sequence could be related to US drawdown in af-pak. He might be another set of US visitors to get assurances from TSP and convey demands to Indians.

Read it with the Pioneer op-ed by G Parthasarathy.

One thing is clear. In his campaign in 2008 he didn't speak much of the environment.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Aug 2011 06:14

I think the news of McCain's discussion with Omar Abdulla about environment has got too much attention. It was clearly chai biskoot. The most urgent environmental issue for Kashmir is not the collected permafrost feces of 100 Indian soldiers in Siachen but frightening deforestation in Pakistan occupied Kashmir where the forests are being stripped faster than a stripper needing to pee urgently.

The topic had come up during last years floods in Pakhanastan
Here is one image - click on thumbnail to enlarge

This was, in fact the basis of RajeshA's chankian suggestion that we allow unrestricted import of furniture from Pakistan aiding the degradation of Paki environment and economy

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 18 Aug 2011 06:16

I got is via email and I don't have a link

AMERICA’S NEW GAME PLAN FOR PAKISTAN

AN INTERESTING ARTICLE PUBLISHED IN AN URDU WEEKLY “NEW YORK AWAM” DATED AUGUST 5-11, 2011

America’s New Game Plan:
Pakistan’s Nuclear Weapons Should be under the Control of the United Nations.

According to American media, USA has obtained support of Russia, France, U.K. and China for this proposal. America desires that in the month of September, this plan should be initiated.

Washington (News Desk): Pakistan and USA are heading for a confrontation which would result in complete annihilation. Obama Administration is prompting Pakistan to abandon production of nuclear materials/weapons. Media reports indicate that talks will start in the next U.N. session in September. In this connection, four recognized nuclear weapon states have already expressed their support to the US proposal. In this connection, it should also be noted that a couple of days ago, NBC Channel had reported that USA had a “snatch and grab” plan to capture about 100 nuclear weapons if it felt that there was a danger of atomic weapons falling into the wrong hands.

Recently, former President Musharraf said on the NBC Channel that this dangerous thinking could result in a war between Pakistan and the USA. The question of guarantee of safety of nuclear weapons had also come up before 9/11. But this time the USA with the help of nuclear nations will start a campaign and compel Pakistan to stop production of nuclear material/weapons and sign the treaty

According to American media, the USA has already obtained the consent of China. Recently, in a conference in Paris, Russia, France and Britain had supported the American proposal.

However one thing is not clear as to how China will permit India to emerge as a nuclear power in South Asia at the cost of Pakistan.

America and its allies are willing to sign this draft proposal next month in the UN Assembly. After that systematic campaign will start. So far Pakistan has successfully thwarted world body’s pressure. In this connection, Pakistan has also informed the comity of the nations that Pakistan would boycott any talks supporting American proposal.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Aug 2011 06:22

Muppalla wrote:I got is via email and I don't have a link

AMERICA’S NEW GAME PLAN FOR PAKISTAN

AN INTERESTING ARTICLE PUBLISHED IN AN URDU WEEKLY “NEW YORK AWAM” DATED AUGUST 5-11, 2011

Sounds like something lifted out of Pakistan's Urdu press.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 18 Aug 2011 06:24

CRamS wrote: Here is my interpretation. Recall, as much as McCain gives a rodent's behind when it comes to environment, global warming, and any change in US consumption/lifestyle in combating them, environemntal issues become a big deal when it comes to India, specifically, US has been making some noises of late about Indian army in Siachen causing some environmental damaage or some crap like that. I don't have the specific news reports or links handy, but I do recall US pushing this angle to draw some concessions from India on Siachen.

Richard Holbrooke was making this argument.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 18 Aug 2011 06:26

PAKISTAN’S GLOOMY ANNIVERSARY: Howard Schaffer

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 18 Aug 2011 06:36

shiv wrote: Sounds like something lifted out of Pakistan's Urdu press.

You are right. There is something like that though.

http://newyorkawam.org/

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Aug 2011 07:05

abhishek_sharma wrote:
Richard Holbrooke was making this argument.

What a stupid argument - just the sort that a Paki would make and Holebrick was a Paki apologist. 25 Indian soldiers on Siachen will hardly melt the glacier any more than changing Washington's precarious weakness and abject stupidity wrt to Pakistan.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Aug 2011 07:13

shiv wrote:
Muppalla wrote:I got is via email and I don't have a link

AMERICA’S NEW GAME PLAN FOR PAKISTAN

AN INTERESTING ARTICLE PUBLISHED IN AN URDU WEEKLY “NEW YORK AWAM” DATED AUGUST 5-11, 2011

Sounds like something lifted out of Pakistan's Urdu press.

Where is the doubt, hakim saab??

It's still very much the Pakistan's Urdu press.

How does it matter from where it's published??

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Aug 2011 07:23

chetak wrote:
How does it matter from where it's published??

Rhetorical question. For many Indians anything that is done in phoren has a ring of truth far beyond anything that comes out of India. That is how Indians were falling over themselves to be part of Ghualm Nabi Fai's circus. When Indians read this "New York Awam" news - the same thing is likely to apply and they will believe the usual nonsense that Indians hold as holy and sacred like the holy cow and all that comes out of it. It has come from Amrika. Therefore it is true - because Indians are liars and lying is not allowed in Amrika.

So the truths that one can gather from the article are
1. The US has the power and means to take out Pakistani nuclear weapons
2. The "UN" is a fair and just body that will then look after Pakistani nukes
3. US "obtained the consent" of China. US needs to obtain consent from China which is Pakistan's current holy cow. China presumably said "OK. No Problemo" when the US said "We are going to take Paki nukes and hand it to UN"

People actually believe this stuff.

It is interesting that some Pakis think just like some Indians: "Pakistan is weak an will quickly capitulate to external pressure and its nukes are "takeout-able" by America/Israel/India"