"Christian" Fundamentalism in West

[VikramS]

chacko:

Regarding the EJ/Congress connection.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmj-_BB6 ... AF22E71891

This is a 3 part series about the experience of a Scandinavian woman regarding Christian missionaries and conversion.

She is clear that the converts are expected to vote for the Congress.

They are asked to disown their heritage by literally stamping and desecrating religious symbols, being instructed stop socialization with their neighbors etc. So being asked to vote for the Congress is not suprising.

[RajeshA]

This thread, because of the deviations, is so wrong in Strategic Forum. The discussions which end up here, really should be under the burqa!

Can we please stick to "Christian Fundamentalism in the West" as the thread title says, and take all "Christians in India", "Hindus vs. Christians" debate to GDF!

Ideology is running riot now in Strategy Forum!

[shyam]

She is clear that the converts are expected to vote for the Congress.

Several times, the communist party in Kerala had made the accusation that in the last Sunday mass before the election, the priest would ask the people to vote for "this" and show his hand - symbol of Congress party.

[chackojoseph]

chacko:

.....eligious symbols, being instructed stop socialization with their neighbors etc. So being asked to vote for the Congress is not suprising.

Time and again, I have said that we are very divided group. Majority of the Christians are unaffected with these conversions. For example, the church which I go to currently. We have political cell, marriage cell, conversation cell, community cell etc. Talking specific about political cell. They have worked out certain matrix based on many factors (by now its familar, amout of work, caste, religion, ability etc, all sections now do it.). Surprising it was. Congress further lost seats. Shiv Sena and MNS gained. Its evident where was the support. On conversions, we have very very experienced people, headed by a lady. He job is not to go and bag converts. We get a lot of probes for converting to Christians. Once we direct them to the cell, they start vetting them. We look into willingness. For example, it should not be "If I become Christian, will I get church grants?" So logically, they find the background of the applicant and see the economic situation etc and recommend them to meet so and so organisation who will either sponsor their children for some time or limit (community cell). Once some one is seen as a genuine applicant, they have to go through a series of course and eeither they go get through or drop out. then, we require legal concent, parental or relative concent. We never tell them to vote for congress.

There are some people / sects who are overzealous. for example, the unfortunate experience of a tsunami victim whi was told that if you convert only then we help you. This is most unfortunate. If such examples are found, report to the church. there are bad people everywhere.

the vote for Congress phenomenon I have explaind two times. I wouldn't want to repeat that.

The Congress vs RSS debate is between the two parties. Our issue is how we perceive the situation and currently congress is the most convinient.

She is clear that the converts are expected to vote for the Congress.

Several times, the communist party in Kerala had made the accusation that in the last Sunday mass before the election, the priest would ask the people to vote for "this" and show his hand - symbol of Congress party.

Its very true in kerala.

This thread, because of the deviations, is so wrong in Strategic Forum. The discussions which end up here, really should be under the burqa!

Can we please stick to "Christian Fundamentalism in the West" as the thread title says, and take all "Christians in India", "Hindus vs. Christians" debate to GDF!

Ideology is running riot now in Strategy Forum!

We can hive off some 15 - 20 of the posts and it will be come a new thread.

[chetak]

MK Narayanan, Bala Krishnan's are Hindus. Boss they are not Christians and Minorities.

Really? Cryptos onlee

[uddu]

An explanation of Indian National Flag by a church group in Kerala. Non-mallus, please ask your mallu friend to translate this.

He say's:

A person who has inner light is an Indian.

The saffron stands for the people who are ready to fight and sacrifice. (he says the "kumkumam).

The green Stands prosperity. refering to people who are rich, the affluent class.

The white is us Christians. We have the inner light. Thank god we are whites.
(obviously refering to A person who has inner light is an Indian.)

(My observations: The above can be interpreted as we don't believe in fight or classes, we are equal)

the Ashok Chakra, he says is on the white and the chakra symbolises authority. he says the chakra is not on saffron or green, its with us on white. it means that A shok (in english it means sadness). The sadness will go. he says Saffron or green, sadness has to go, it needs to be white. God jesus should come withing us if white has to come and sadness has to go.

What is wrong with the creative explanation? he has not insulted the flag. The saffron, the green and white explanation is the same nationally. he has very creatively put it on why Christians are Indians. Actaully, thank you for posting this.

Chacko, you're lying and hiding the real things that's being said and with what intention.
Let me try to translate.
First the person is mocking the national flag, He is using a very mocking tone.
He starts with saying "Eni trivarna pathaka"
Meaning "next the tricolour". {Here he is saying I'm going to explain to you about tricolour}
"Mulalik kumkumam" meaning "on top saffron"
"adiyil paccha" "green at bottom"
"nadukku vella" "white in the middle"
"entha kumkumam?" "what is saffron?"
"deerathayum thyagasannathathayum soochipikkunnu" means "represents, bravery and sacrifice" {the tone is mocking}
"aidkkanum idikkanum thallanum kuttahnum kazhivullavanaanu molil kaanunathu" means "The one who is capable of beating, hitting is at the top". {Chacko avoids this completely. This is not only an insult to the Indian national flag but is also a grave insult to any Indian who considers the national flag as dear. I felt very sad that Chacko that you supported this ********. Not only the national flag was insulted and mocked. He wanted to convey that Saffron stands for goondaism}
"Eee thazhe kanunna pacha athalla" "The green at the bottom is not that"
"athu sasya sampoornamaya bharatha bhoomiyude aishwaryathe soochipikkunnu ennu paranjal, chela kaashum putthanum ulla alkaarana paccha" "it is the green bharat's richness, that means it represents the people with money" {May be he means the Muslims of India}
"pidikittiyo" "you got it?"
"pakshe nudukatthe vella undallo athu nammala" "but the white in the middle is us"
"vella nadukku vannathinum kjaan daivathe vazthukayanu" means "Since white came in the middle i say god is great" and for that stotram to god
"theernilla, ee chakram undallo" "not yet finished, this chakram is there"
"ee ahikarathinte chinnam, ee ashoka chakram" "this symbol of power, this ashoka wheel" {this fool even don't know what is ashoka chakra, forget about him knowing anything about the colour}
"athu vellayila" "its in white" "
"athu pachaykum koduthilla, kumkumathinum, daivam koduthilla" "It was not given to green, nor to saffron by god."
"athu vellaikka thannathu" "its given to white"
"eniyum kekkano" "you want to hear further?"
"ashoka chakram enna, athinte peru" "its name is ashoka chakram"
"shokam, dhukham" "shokam means sadness" {What is this Chacko? is this not insulting national symbols?}
"asho-kam, dukham maarumennu" "ash-okam, means sadness will be over" {Chacko the actual meaning of Ashoka is the follower of Dharma}
"so dhukham maaranamenil vellayil varanam" "so if sadness need to be removed, you have to come to white"
"pacha aanelum, kukumam aanelum, dukkam maaranamenkil, vellayil varanam" "if it's green or if it's saffron, will have to come to white to overcome sadness" "hallejula or something" {I will say the people who listen to this madman are more mad}
"ennu rathri need vallayil varam" "tonight you have to come to white"
"athinte artham, nee yeshuvil varanam" "that means you have to come to Jesus"
Then screaming.
finally tells without comeing to Jesus you'll not get something.
Dont know he meant you'll not get today's food or something.

Added later: But guys, I find it really funny is that actually if the people there sitting there must have know what's meant by Ashoka {follower of Dharma in reality}, then they must have realized that the person is asking them to follow Dharmic faiths.

[chackojoseph]

Other malayalees on the top have also reacted to it. No one says that he explicitly said so. You have read my reply on this. Why do you want to repeat the same. read my analogy on this issue.

MK Narayanan, Bala Krishnan's are Hindus. Boss they are not Christians and Minorities.

Really? Cryptos onlee

If its crypto, how do you know. Even ifs true, its their individual descision. how can you hold church responsible for it?

[uddu]

Other malayalees on the top have also reacted to it. No one says that he explicitly said so. You have read my reply on this. Why do you want to repeat the same. read my analogy on this issue.

O.K chacko, nee pidicha muyalinu 20 kaathu.
Now let what other Mallus are saying.
Let check the comment section, and how people respond to that person.
"kashtam ! enthu thonyavasavum davitathinte peril ...dividing the people again .."
Means "Sad. Whatever **** can be done in gods name. ... dividing the people again."
"VIVARAMILLATHA SAHODHARA VARGIYAVISHAM KUTHIVEAKALLE"
Means "illeterate brother, don't inject the poison of fundamentalism"
"evarokkeya olla christiansinte peroode kalayunne!!!"
"This ** will make the name of good Christian look bad" {An Indian, a Christian}
"EE nayinte mone chattakkadikkanam,ee ****** speech kettu ella Christiansum ingane aanennu aarum karutharuthu!!!!!Ithepolulla kure kunnakal christiansinte manam kalayan kure groupukalum aayi irangiyittundu,,,,,"
"This dogs son, need to be beaten with ...after hearing his speech don't think that the others christians are like this. There are some ... like this ....who has descended to defame the name of Christians. {These from An Indian, and from a Christian himself}
There are so more Chacko, you need not need me to translate them for you right.

[chackojoseph]

Uddu,

For your sake I will agree. Not out of agreement. I have seen satre in it. Since you want me to compulsorally to agree with you, I will keep that respect.

[vishvak]

Uddu,

For your sake I will agree. Not out of agreement. I have seen satre in it. Since you want me to compulsorally to agree with you, I will keep that respect.

Imagine a Hindu in America/Europe saying "stars on American flag represents poly culture&Gods and red-&-white clearly indicates onlee peace is with red/saffron", then mocks others. This could lead to EJ-angst and actual police/legal action & what not, also leading to descriptions on how bad Hinduism is written across all references because of these two lines.

America and Europe, according to me, could be amongst the most right wing, (and other sundry attributes applied, onlee in worse and uncivilized ways) one could ever imagine, because of such unjust behavior that could be forced down upon Hindus spreading word of Gita and offering idols for prayers at. Extremely right wing, no less.

[chackojoseph]

Imagine a Hindu in America/Europe saying "stars on American flag represents poly culture&Gods and red-&-white clearly indicates onlee peace is with red/saffron", then mocks others. This could lead to EJ-angst and actual police/legal action & what not, also leading to descriptions on how bad Hinduism is written across all references because of these two lines.

America and Europe, according to me, could be amongst the most right wing, (and other sundry attributes applied, onlee in worse and uncivilized ways) one could ever imagine, because of such unjust behavior that could be forced down upon Hindus spreading word of Gita and offering idols for prayers at. Extremely right wing, no less.

How come we Indian Christians responsible for that? they have their own churches to look after that. At the same time, Kindly go through this articles Link (keep pressing the older posts button) and see how US is treating the Hindus. Everything from religious symbols, yoga, gods etc are being addmited to museums, public life, prayers are being used to open ceremonies and temples are being opened. Should be a lesson for the "internet hindus."

[vishvak]

Imagine a Hindu in America/Europe saying "stars on American flag represents poly culture&Gods and red-&-white clearly indicates onlee peace is with red/saffron", then mocks others. This could lead to EJ-angst and actual police/legal action & what not, also leading to descriptions on how bad Hinduism is written across all references because of these two lines.

America and Europe, according to me, could be amongst the most right wing, (and other sundry attributes applied, onlee in worse and uncivilized ways) one could ever imagine, because of such unjust behavior that could be forced down upon Hindus spreading word of Gita and offering idols for prayers at. Extremely right wing, no less.

How come we Indian Christians responsible for that? they have their own churches to look after that. At the same time, Kindly go through this articles Link (keep pressing the older posts button) and see how US is treating the Hindus. Everything from religious symbols, yoga, gods etc are being addmited to museums, public life, prayers are being used to open ceremonies and temples are being opened. Should be a lesson for the "internet hindus."

No connection, Sir. Just noting that Americans and Europe has a substantial extremely right wing 'strain' that is detrimental to core multicultural values of civilizations. This strain must be treated with utmost aptness.

[chetak]

Uddu,

For your sake I will agree. Not out of agreement. I have seen satre in it. Since you want me to compulsorally to agree with you, I will keep that respect.

Elsewhere this would be called "Taqiyya"

But since the concept does not exist outside of ..............., so we won't

[JE Menon]

Actually, the comments on the youtube are in much stronger language than Uddu has translated.

Even the speech, if many traditional Mallu Christians (established churches) see it, will drive them nuts!!! Don't know who are making the comments, but this sentiment is reflected in couple of the comments.

[Aditya_V]

How come we Indian Christians responsible for that? they have their own churches to look after that. At the same time, Kindly go through this articles Link (keep pressing the older posts button) and . Everything from religious symbols, yoga, gods etc are being addmited to museums, public life,see how US is treating the Hindus prayers are being used to open ceremonies and temples are being opened. Should be a lesson for the "internet hindus."

Agree, Indians Christians should not be held responsible for activities done by others.

But regarding treatment of Hindus, do remember cities like Chennai and bangalore probably have more than 1000 chruches, is there any American City which has close to that number, Hindu socities have had to run pillar to post to get even 1 temple permission in most towns in the US. In fact I dont think there are as many temples in the whole of US as there Churhes in the City of Chennai.
In fact in US politics, to be elected a Booby Jindal or Nikki Haley have had to change religion in order to be acceptable to the electorate. Imagine us asking that from a Jagan Mohan reddy or AK Anthony or Oomen Chandy.

No sir India does not need lessons on how to treat minorities from Other countries.

Western Countries have only accepted the most Educated and Rich Hindus in order to benefit from the Brain drain. Such people also tend to be pretty small in number and generally law abiding. Thats the only reason why they get tolerated.

[chackojoseph]

No connection, Sir. I am just saying that Americans and Europe has a substantial extremely right wing 'strain' that is detrimental to core multicultural values of civilizations. This strain must be treated with utmost aptness.

Sir, they have a background of being the original barbarians. However, right wing, class struggle etc are phenomenon those are age old. Every part of the history they existed. If they dominated, there is major conflict. if they are in check, there are only minor conflict.

chetak,

Thanks. I just learnt what "Taqiyya" is. Why i say its not fundamentalism because Syro malabar are not fundamentalist. More to do with surviving communist and certain extent RSS. Its, I will give you votes, you protect me and nurture me. This is why nationwide we elect leaders. Represent us.

[JE Menon]

Anyways, guys, thread is going OT. Take relevant posts to the thread started by Pranav on the Analysis of Political Christianity Worldwide

[chackojoseph]

How come we Indian Chri....ost Educated and Rich Hindus in order to benefit from the Brain drain. Such people also tend to be pretty small in number and generally law abiding. Thats the only reason why they get tolerated.

You make interesting points, worth reading. The churches are very old in chennai, blore, mumbai etc. There are newer ones in remote too. its very difficult to get permmission for a graveyard. Here we are 5000 strong and do not have a graveyard. We are running all pillars possible. If you think this is cake walk for us, then I have no argument. We face through same problems of acquiring land etc. Some of the denomnations have rented / purchased a shop and a house (for priest) and are running sunday services.

BTW, the churches have not come up in cities. its cities which came up near churches. Read the history of the churches. Arid lad, marshy land etc which was not accessible and not developed. Now its cities.

JE Menon,

Nice to hear that.

[rajanb]

How come we Indian Christians responsible for that? they have their own churches to look after that. At the same time, Kindly go through this articles Link (keep pressing the older posts button) and . Everything from religious symbols, yoga, gods etc are being addmited to museums, public life,see how US is treating the Hindus prayers are being used to open ceremonies and temples are being opened. Should be a lesson for the "internet hindus."

Agree, Indians Christians should not be held responsible for activities done by others.

But regarding treatment of Hindus, do remember cities like Chennai and bangalore probably have more than 1000 chruches, is there any American City which has close to that number, Hindu socities have had to run pillar to post to get even 1 temple permission in most towns in the US. In fact I dont think there are as many temples in the whole of US as there Churhes in the City of Chennai.
In fact in US politics, to be elected a Booby Jindal or Nikki Haley have had to change religion in order to be acceptable to the electorate. Imagine us asking that from a Jagan Mohan reddy or AK Anthony or Oomen Chandy.

No sir India does not need lessons on how to treat minorities from Other countries.

Western Countries have only accepted the most Educated and Rich Hindus in order to benefit from the Brain drain. Such people also tend to be pretty small in number and generally law abiding. Thats the only reason why they get tolerated.

Wot say, we go conquer them and build temples?

err...pretty please. Can we call ourselves the West India Company? Then we will be == onlee.

[Philip]

Webmasters,please lock this thread as it is being repeatedly derailed,a pity as the issue is a driving force in current politics the west today.Let those who want the debate to continue to take it to another forum,not the strategic forum.

[chackojoseph]

From this page, from Achaya's first comment onwards, the posts can be hived off and sent to GD, if Bradmins think is right.

[chetak]

No connection, Sir. I am just saying that Americans and Europe has a substantial extremely right wing 'strain' that is detrimental to core multicultural values of civilizations. This strain must be treated with utmost aptness.

Sir, they have a background of being the original barbarians. However, right wing, class struggle etc are phenomenon those are age old. Every part of the history they existed. If they dominated, there is major conflict. if they are in check, there are only minor conflict.

chetak,

Thanks. I just learnt what "Taqiyya" is. Why i say its not fundamentalism because Syro malabar are not fundamentalist. More to do with surviving communist and certain extent RSS. Its, I will give you votes, you protect me and nurture me. This is why nationwide we elect leaders. Represent us.

Chacko,

No intent to denigrate but you are too intelligent not to have seen and observed the post sonia rapid march of xtian institutions, organisations and influence.

The pace is all out of proportion to the representation and requirement. This is bound to cause cultural distress. A billion plus people being ruled by a minority!! Show me one other country where this is so.

Never once seen any other than Hindus being the target of the recipient of wondrous enlightenment. This is explained simply by a well developed sense of self preservation for life and limb. The mullahs may be too violent for their taste.

Your arguments are specious and borders on the vacuous.

We have faced the raw end of cultural assault since the days of the british. The pope has different and very vocal opinion other than yours. Are we to disregard the pope?? and believe you??

For us xtian is xtian, period.

We will not try to differentiate between Syro malabar, latin and roman catholic, Syro-Malabar Malankara Orthodox Syrian, Malankara Jacobite, Malankara Mar Thoma Syrian Church. It makes the least bit of difference to us. These are just strawmen. Seeking only to divert and obfuscate the real issues.

The placid good nature of the Hindus and Hinduism has simply been taken advantage of to justify all sorts of evil practices that would have got the missionaries butchered in many other parts of the world.

[vishvak]

Agree, Indians Christians should not be held responsible for activities done by others.

But regarding treatment of Hindus, do remember cities like Chennai and bangalore probably have more than 1000 chruches, is there any American City which has close to that number, Hindu socities have had to run pillar to post to get even 1 temple permission in most towns in the US. In fact I dont think there are as many temples in the whole of US as there Churhes in the City of Chennai.
In fact in US politics, to be elected a Booby Jindal or Nikki Haley have had to change religion in order to be acceptable to the electorate. Imagine us asking that from a Jagan Mohan reddy or AK Anthony or Oomen Chandy.

No sir India does not need lessons on how to treat minorities from Other countries.

Western Countries have only accepted the most Educated and Rich Hindus in order to benefit from the Brain drain. Such people also tend to be pretty small in number and generally law abiding. Thats the only reason why they get tolerated.

This is a clear cut indication on how extremely right wing the Americans generally are, regardless of faking secularism at every permit given to set up a temple as if it is a very big deal. The undercurrents are truly repelling of the society.

See how extremely anti-Hindu these people are
US Supreme Court Nominee Opposed Hindu Temple

At the first two public hearings, residents of the nearby Lake Parsippany neighborhood raised concerns about congestion, parking, and even the smell of food being cooked at the site.

Food odor apparently wasn't an issue in North Bergen. Even so, the North Bergen zoning board rejected BAPS' application in 1999, citing traffic and occupancy objections and rejecting the temple's final offer to reduce its seating capacity from 578 to 505.

BAPS appealed the denial to bankruptcy court because of the property's status. The bankruptcy court overturned the denial, and during a second round of hearings, the zoning board insisted that BAPS hire off-duty police officers as a condition of approval.
...
After a district court rejected North Bergen's appeal, the case landed before Alito and the 3rd Circuit. Out of the three judges, only Alito sided with North Bergen.

"Oddly enough, with all the talk that religious zealots love this choice ... (Alito) gave a lot more deference to the municipal fact-finding than I would have," said Tombalakian, part of the BAPS legal team in that case.

Sydney: Hindu Temple construction opposed mentality of the 'very good' people:

''The building, however, appears to be about three storeys tall with domes and flag poles on top of that. Then there are all the things associated with that, such as up to 200 people but only 50 car parking spaces,'' he added.
...
''I think the neighbours are very good but they don't have the actual picture of what's going to happen and are worried about what it's going to look like,'' The Telegraph quoted temple trustee Karsan Kerai as saying.

Russia's Inter-Religious Council opposes Hindu temple Here the pools are combined:

'It is wrong to build a huge Krishna centre which will take a dominant architectural and cultural position in the city. A majority of Muscovites may misunderstand it,'' Metropolitan Cyril of Smolensk and Kaliningrad, in charge of the Mowscow Patriarchate Department of External Church relations..

''Russia has a thousand-year long history of Christian Orthodoxy, Islam, Judaism and Buddhism. To build a major Krishna worship temple in its capital will be blasphemous, to an extent,'' vice-president of the Russian Muslim Board Muhammad- Ghali KhuzinMufti said.

''There are religions of global purport. We ought to be a ware of the aggressive missionary activities in Russia by religions and confessions non-established in this country...'' Russia's Chief Rabbi, Berl Lazar said.

Russian Orthodox Church has from the very beginning opposed the proposed construction of the Krishna temple in Moscow.

Currently, a makeshift building serves as a temple in Moscow's Khoroshevski Shoshe, for about 16,000 Hindu devotees.

Hindu Temple of St. Louis' expansion plans vex neighbors The good neighbors are at again:

In response to complaints, the temple set a timer on the lights a few weeks ago for 9 p.m., said G.V. Naidu, vice chairman of the temple's board of trustees.

The $3 million plan has been on hold the past year, partly from a hearing and meetings over neighborhood concerns.

Apart from parking, neighbors also are concerned about drainage from a new paved lot, encroachment from another building and effects on property values.

"We feel that further expansion will further intrude on our quality of life," said James C. Mason...

Temple officials say they are trying to both appease the neighbors..

"Nobody wants a large gathering in their backyard"...

"Some people just don't want it, because that is what you run into...

Powers said that he liked the unique architecture of the temple but that it was a matter of taste and, perhaps, proximity.

Neighbors fight proposed Hindu temple

an amenable resolution to the controversy over the proposed construction

"I certainly hope that there can be a place where there is something that can work for everyone"

a group of local residents who oppose construction of the temple, asked Summit County Common Pleas Court to review the commission's action.

That means that if the commission approves the final plans on Tuesday, the village cannot immediately issue a zoning permit.

''Why has Richfield become the place where all these odd religions want to be?'' ''How far do there (sic) members drive to get here?'' and ''Are these people safe?''

"the opposition fears the tranquility of the neighborhood will be disturbed"

'We are concerned about transforming this area into something other than a residential area,'' Newcomb said. ''We are concerned about an influx of people coming in, chanting and singing while we're trying to enjoy the peace and quiet of our neighborhood.

See how well structured this is. You can't blame technology and times. Extremely right-wing, it looks like.

A Hindu in India with such an anti-minority attitude could be already condemned by U.N.


If this is the situation in USA, Australia and Russia, situation in Europe could only be worse.

Sir, they have a background of being the original barbarians. However, right wing, class struggle etc are phenomenon those are age old.

Sir, how are these "class struggles". These are anti-Hindu behavioral traits.

[chackojoseph]

Chacko,

No intent to denigrate but you are too intelligent not to have seen and observed the post sonia rapid march of xtian institutions, organisations and influence.

Before we go forward. Please quantify it.

[chetak]

Chacko,

No intent to denigrate but you are too intelligent not to have seen and observed the post sonia rapid march of xtian institutions, organisations and influence.

Before we go forward. Please quantify it.

No further interest.

[chackojoseph]

No further interest.

[Hari Seldon]

Chacko,

No intent to denigrate but you are too intelligent not to have seen and observed the post sonia rapid march of xtian institutions, organisations and influence.

Before we go forward. Please quantify it.

Apologies if posted already but here's one rare article in India today (09 May 2011) that actually made it to the mainstream (op)press.

Freelancers of God
This is the sub-headline:

Independent churches mushroom across India attracting foreign funds

In fact, if you've been to any of the targetted states, the growth and in-your-face xtian presence in India has been so strong and visible, I'm surprised you're pretending not to be aware.

Here's from the article, read it all, I must say.

These groups never baptise tribals and form "base communities", as the grassroots building blocks of liberation theology are called. They believe that the church's job is not just to bring people in contact with God but to ensure direct collective action against injustice.

A.k.a Maoist supporting ecosystem.

In south India, the new churches are led by telegenic public speakers. Tamil Nadu has attracted most of the independent churches, thanks to foreign contributions, which stood at Rs 775 crore during 2002-03 and went up to Rs 2,244 crore during 2006-07. Chennai tops the list of cities receiving foreign contributions: Rs 363 crore in 2002-03 to Rs 929 crore in 2006-07. Paul Dinakaran and Mohan C. Lazarus are the leading evangelists in Tamil Nadu. It is said that actress Nagma took to Christianity because of Lazarus's preaching. His Jesus Redeems Ministry is quite popular in the state's southern districts such as Thoothukudi, Kanyakumari and Tirunelveli, where conversions are said to be rampant.

Andhra Pradesh also hosts many independent churches. The late chief minister YSR Reddy's son-in-law Anil Kumar's church, called Anil World Evangelism, has prospered in different parts of the state.

Like I said, read it all. Only. Sorry for OT if this dhaga wasn't about Indian xtianity.

[Manish_Sharma]

He say's:

A person who has inner light is an Indian.

The saffron stands for the people who are ready to fight and sacrifice. (he says the "kumkumam).

The green Stands prosperity. refering to people who are rich, the affluent class.

The white is us Christians. We have the inner light. Thank god we are whites.
(obviously refering to A person who has inner light is an Indian.)

(My observations: The above can be interpreted as we don't believe in fight or classes, we are equal)

the Ashok Chakra, he says is on the white and the chakra symbolises authority. he says the chakra is not on saffron or green, its with us on white. it means that A shok (in english it means sadness). The sadness will go. he says Saffron or green, sadness has to go, it needs to be white. God jesus should come withing us if white has to come and sadness has to go.

What is wrong with the creative explanation? he has not insulted the flag. The saffron, the green and white explanation is the same nationally. he has very creatively put it on why Christians are Indians. Actaully, thank you for posting this.

Chacko, you're lying and hiding the real things that's being said and with what intention.
Let me try to translate.
First the person is mocking the national flag, He is using a very mocking tone.
He starts with saying "Eni trivarna pathaka"
Meaning "next the tricolour". {Here he is saying I'm going to explain to you about tricolour}
"Mulalik kumkumam" meaning "on top saffron"
"adiyil paccha" "green at bottom"
"nadukku vella" "white in the middle"
"entha kumkumam?" "what is saffron?"
"deerathayum thyagasannathathayum soochipikkunnu" means "represents, bravery and sacrifice" {the tone is mocking}
"aidkkanum idikkanum thallanum kuttahnum kazhivullavanaanu molil kaanunathu" means "The one who is capable of beating, hitting is at the top". {Chacko avoids this completely. This is not only an insult to the Indian national flag but is also a grave insult to any Indian who considers the national flag as dear. I felt very sad that Chacko that you supported this ******** Not only the national flag was insulted and mocked. He wanted to convey that Saffron stands for goondaism}
"Eee thazhe kanunna pacha athalla" "The green at the bottom is not that"
"athu sasya sampoornamaya bharatha bhoomiyude aishwaryathe soochipikkunnu ennu paranjal, chela kaashum putthanum ulla alkaarana paccha" "it is the green bharat's richness, that means it represents the people with money" {May be he means the Muslims of India}
"pidikittiyo" "you got it?"
"pakshe nudukatthe vella undallo athu nammala" "but the white in the middle is us"
"vella nadukku vannathinum kjaan daivathe vazthukayanu" means "Since white came in the middle i say god is great" and for that stotram to god
"theernilla, ee chakram undallo" "not yet finished, this chakram is there"
"ee ahikarathinte chinnam, ee ashoka chakram" "this symbol of power, this ashoka wheel" {this fool even don't know what is ashoka chakra, forget about him knowing anything about the colour}
"athu vellayila" "its in white" "
"athu pachaykum koduthilla, kumkumathinum, daivam koduthilla" "It was not given to green, nor to saffron by god."
"athu vellaikka thannathu" "its given to white"
"eniyum kekkano" "you want to hear further?"
"ashoka chakram enna, athinte peru" "its name is ashoka chakram"
"shokam, dhukham" "shokam means sadness" {What is this Chacko? is this not insulting national symbols?}
"asho-kam, dukham maarumennu" "ash-okam, means sadness will be over" {Chacko the actual meaning of Ashoka is the follower of Dharma}
"so dhukham maaranamenil vellayil varanam" "so if sadness need to be removed, you have to come to white"
"pacha aanelum, kukumam aanelum, dukkam maaranamenkil, vellayil varanam" "if it's green or if it's saffron, will have to come to white to overcome sadness" "hallejula or something" {I will say the people who listen to this madman are more mad}
"ennu rathri need vallayil varam" "tonight you have to come to white"
"athinte artham, nee yeshuvil varanam" "that means you have to come to Jesus"
Then screaming.
finally tells without comeing to Jesus you'll not get something.
Dont know he meant you'll not get today's food or something.

Added later: But guys, I find it really funny is that actually if the people there sitting there must have know what's meant by Ashoka {follower of Dharma in reality}, then they must have realized that the person is asking them to follow Dharmic faiths. [/quote]

Thank you for taking the time to expose chacko's lies. My god these christian ej's venom against the national flag, he wants to cover up but any discussion against christian jihad causes him massive kasht!

[chackojoseph]

Thank you for taking the time to expose chacko's lies. My god these christian ej's venom against the national flag, he wants to cover up but any discussion against christian jihad causes him massive kasht!

Its wrong. You have twisted it even further. What others are saying is that he has double meaning. You are saying that He is spewing venom against the Indian flag? This is ridiculous.

[Klaus]

<SNIP>

CJ,

I'm letting you know that I had to report the posts relating to the WRONG interpretation of the flag as well as two other posts of yours. The effect of the sum total of these posts is no different compared to various spam threads advertising aphrodisiacs, *** and **** which come up time and again on this forum.

The effect has also been a natural allergic reaction of == and "robotic reactions" (your term and not mine) from other residents of this forum.

I visited this thread after many days and had no other choice after reading the last few pages.

[chackojoseph]

<SNIP>

CJ,

I'm letting you know that I had to report the posts relating to the WRONG interpretation of the flag as well as two other posts of yours. The effect of the sum total of these posts is no different compared to various spam threads advertising aphrodisiacs, *** and **** which come up time and again on this forum.

The effect has also been a natural allergic reaction of == and "robotic reactions" (your term and not mine) from other residents of this forum.

I visited this thread after many days and had no other choice after reading the last few pages.

You are free to do do it. I have not stopped you and don't intend to. At the same time, I also want to protest the wrong interpretation of flag by the folks and the virulant attacks on Christians.

[Rahul M]

this thread was always a bad idea and it proved why within a few pages.
it gets locked and trashed unless someone convinces the mods otherwise. comments, if any, in the off-topic thread.