Indian Autos Thread

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Aug 2011 22:12

indeed most if not all pickup trucks on american highways are body-on-frame. nothing intrinsically dangerous in that format - ofcourse the solid rear axle means the ride is less smooth on rough roads for rear seat due to no independent rear suspension of a 'proper' car. whatever be the style, high GC vehicles need to exercise some caution in high speed cornering and zig zag.

the apollo acelere tyres on swift, ritz, fabia, i20, polo are said to be quite good.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 23 Aug 2011 11:17

ManjaM wrote:http://www.zigwheels.com/news-features/ ... hed/9317/1

http://www.thehindu.com/business/Indust ... 376653.ece

The ride and handling have been fine-tuned by Lotus Engineering of the U.K.

Interesting.. What's the opinion on Force One?

armenon · Post by **armenon** » 23 Aug 2011 11:30

Read soemwhere that Force One is a chipanda suv kit assembled in India.Force One SUV is based on the platform of Chinese Guangdong Foday Explorer III

http://indianautosblog.com/2011/07/spie ... -interiors

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 23 Aug 2011 13:03

Mahindra's W201 is out next month. TBHP boys aren't very impressed with the looks from spy pics but i thought it wasn't that bad. Mahindra seems very bullish about this vehicle, hope it does well.

manish · Post by **manish** » 23 Aug 2011 14:14

Ambar ji, not to nitpick, but I am not quite sure about some of the timelines and facts that you mentioned in your post.

Ambar wrote:Singha, Toyota Motor Company was extremely lucky with their product and timing. I remember my friend driving up in a preproduction Qualis in late 1999 when they were still road testing it, i was flabbergasted at its ugliness even back then! Apparently, they had shipped the vehicle from Africa, and the initial dyes in the Bidadi plant also came from Africa. Luckily for them, Indian economy in 2000 was just warming up and was still recovering from license raj days, and the terribly built Mahindras and Tatas were the only players in UV sector. Qualis though from the late 70s was built like a rock, and was head over heels better compared to Mahindra and Tata products..

Saar, I think the Qualis is (er, was) nothing but a rebadged 3rd Gen Toyota Kijang from their Indonesian line-up. This model is from the mid-1990s - a variant which was a mild refresh of the initial 3rd gen model launched in the mid-1980s. This certainly wasn't a 1970s dinosaur and I think Toyota probably did some clever baniyagiri and shipped off the tools and dies as they transitioned onwards to the 4th Gen (the 5th gen is our good old Innova).

Ambar wrote: The truth is, FDI policies did not allow 100% investment until 2002 forcing foreign companies to tie up with Indian companies, and more often than not the later had no contribution to product or capital. Many foreign auto companies were reluctant to do business in India and the japs were no different despite the success of MUL. If there's one company that got everything right it has to be Hyundai.From timing to products to service and brand building when Shahrukh Khan was no.1 - they didn't skip a beat.

Again I am not sure about the timelines saar - wasn't the Santro launched in 1998 itself? IIRC Hyundai India has always been a 100% subsidiary of its Korean parent.

The minor bits aside, I broadly concur with your views on Toyota as a player in the Indian market. I think they have never truly given the local market the respect it deserved and it kept showing up through their approach. The Etios is the latest example. When the car first hit the market, my brother was really keen on it and I went along with him to take a test drive. We thought that we had our expectations toned down suitably to match a sub-8L Toyota but what we saw truly shocked us. Cost cutting was evident throughout and the car gave off strong vibes of being cheap. Heck, even the back panels of tail light clusters had been replaced with fabric and a near-total lack of any insulation on the engine firewall, door panels and wheel wells ensured that every tiny noise from outside easily filtered through to the cabin. We left disgusted and eliminated the car from our shopping list. Now with the first lot of those cars having spent a few months on our roads, more and more complaints are being heard all over. Here's a wonderful sample from T-BHP - I think the title and the picture are self-explanatory:

Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 23 Aug 2011 14:40

Ambar wrote:ECHO was once sold in the US market in the early 2000s, i doubt it if it failed crash tests and yet allowed to be produced/sold in states. Anyways, vehicle safety is among the lowest concern of our government.What else can explain cars like M800,Omni,Amby etc still being sold ?The central govt vehicle testing facility in MH does not have a single crash room facility (atleast not until 2003).

As for Fortuner being a body-on-frame, i don't know what a Fortuner is, but it looks similar to Toyota Tacoma truck that is sold here. Most SUVs that are based on global platforms are usually body-on-frame as it allows manufacturers to build various versions on the same platform. Except for the body roll factor, body-on-frame does not have any other safety concerns. ( The ubiquitous Ford Crown Victoria - the legendary cop car is body on frame too).

Yes, Sales were stopped only in 2005 when the Car test standard requirements became more stringent, until then it was sold in US, Europe and Middleeast.

I am fine with selling it? But this Whole Media Campaign that this car has been completly designed from the Ground from India. With NDTV CAR and BIKE show and plenthora of programmes why Toyota developed a brand new 1.5 litre Engine(which basically is a detuned version of the one sold in North America) for enviormental reasons BS really got my Goat. None of other manufacturers has been that downright dishonest. With Qualis Toyota was honest about it being an old car. Why cheat with rebadged Echo Etios.

Manish-> I drove my F-in -law 2006 corolla upto 2010 and car was of supreme quality, supreb braking and low maintence. Toyota makes good cars. But whole lies associated the Etios launch brand new stuff which will exported to other markets(like Suzuki splash or Hyundai I20) really put me off, how can a company be that dishonest?

I hope the Etios flops and Toyota is forced to bring an up to date product in the Indian market.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 23 Aug 2011 15:43

manish wrote:Ambar ji, not to nitpick, but I am not quite sure about some of the timelines and facts that you mentioned in your post.
Saar, I think the Qualis is (er, was) nothing but a rebadged 3rd Gen Toyota Kijang from their Indonesian line-up. This model is from the mid-1990s - a variant which was a mild refresh of the initial 3rd gen model launched in the mid-1980s. This certainly wasn't a 1970s dinosaur and I think Toyota probably did some clever baniyagiri and shipped off the tools and dies as they transitioned onwards to the 4th Gen (the 5th gen is our good old Innova).

Again I am not sure about the timelines saar - wasn't the Santro launched in 1998 itself? IIRC Hyundai India has always been a 100% subsidiary of its Korean parent.

I'm glad you nitpicked, it gives my aging memory some good exercise! The production Qualis was indeed the 3rd gen 'Kijang' that was introduced in mid-80s in African/SE Asian countries, but the pre-production 'Qualis' (wasn't even badged when my friend who was with Kirloskar those days drove up to my place) looked every bit the full bodied version of the tinbox on wheels '2nd gen' Indonesian Kijang as shown in Wikipedia. Even if it was the mid-80s Kijang that was finally introduced in India in 2000, it doesn't drive away the point that they were lucky to get away with a dated product that was no longer in production anywhere in the world except Africa (the same bodied,heavily stickered version that we finally got) .

2) http://www.thehindubusinessline.in/blin ... 430100.htm
http://www.jstor.org/pss/4415356

The FDI policy in auto sector was amended during the 2nd BJP government in 2002 to allow 100% direct investment in auto sector. HMIL was NOT 100% subsidiary when it entered India in 1996 (started producing in 1998). It was one of a kind venture where Hyundai encouraged vendors to share the complex and be a part of the equity which gave 40% hold to local vendors with Hyundai picking up the rest 60%. I'm not sure if post 2002 they bought back the rest from vendors.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 23 Aug 2011 16:00

Aditya_V wrote:
Yes, Sales were stopped only in 2005 when the Car test standard requirements became more stringent, until then it was sold in US, Europe and Middleeast.

I am fine with selling it? But this Whole Media Campaign that this car has been completly designed from the Ground from India. With NDTV CAR and BIKE show and plenthora of programmes why Toyota developed a brand new 1.5 litre Engine(which basically is a detuned version of the one sold in North America) for enviormental reasons BS really got my Goat. None of other manufacturers has been that downright dishonest. With Qualis Toyota was honest about it being an old car. Why cheat with rebadged Echo Etios.

Maybe we are talking about different cars, but the Echo sedan was replaced by Yaris hatch as the entry level Toyota. The Echo that was sold in early 2000s here had a decent rating :
NHTSA Frontal Crash Driver Good (Sedan)
NHTSA Frontal Crash Passenger Good (Sedan)
NHTSA Side Crash Front Occupant Average (Sedan)
NHTSA Side Crash Rear Occupant Good (Sedan)
NHTSA Rollover Resistance Good (Sedan)
IIHS Offset Not Tested
IIHS Bumper Bash Not Tested
(Edmunds)

And excellent ratings for the 2005 Echo

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/safet ... model=ECHO

Ofcourse, whether they meet the same safety ratings in India is another question ( we blindly follow 2000 European technical safety regs, and 2005 European emission norms). But then again, who cares about safety in India ? Not the car buyers, not the manufacturers and definitely not the government.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 23 Aug 2011 19:31

Ambar-> you are right , Toyota Echo was stopped because it became outdated. But thats the thing, toyota didnt bring the Toyota Vitz 3rd gen to India but brought the now defunct Echo and claimed it was specially developed car for India.

What I hate most is the dihonesty about the R&D for India when clearly it is lifted off the Echo/Yaris. Trying to match I20 and Maruti Splash/Ritz which has done the damage for me.

VikB · Post by **VikB** » 25 Aug 2011 17:34

Rahul M wrote:Vik, can't you send some of the feedback on nano's image to the ears of the powers that be ?

Rahul, can you please list the items that you wud want to put when talking of Nano's image and your suggestions to counter it. I may be able to pass it all thru the chaiwalah to paanwalha route.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 25 Aug 2011 18:19

here http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 8#p1143048

there's another aspect - safety. not just the fire hazard, the crashworthiness needs to be stressed as well.

VikB · Post by **VikB** » 26 Aug 2011 13:07

RahulM

Idea of upgrade from motorcycle in advt has already been done.

other points are - not to potray a 'poor man's car' - celebrity endorsement - safety to be stressed

ANy other suggestions by ANYONE.

My wife gave one- it looks small but it is big, so encourage free demo.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 26 Aug 2011 13:41

^^
As the sales figures for various trims show, people are willing to pay more for the car. I think a different version of the car (like Vista) is needed to match Alto. Add a glovebox etc. But name it differently, don't make it an ego issue

A Nano based car which matches Alto in creature comforts, has higher mileage and priced lower (even if its a few thousands) will sell IMO. Market it aggressively with good financing options. I think there's an urban market for the Nano. I'm surprised Nano's higher mileage isn't getting drummed about like Vista's is.

PS: I'm not in the automotive industry, so i may have missed practical issues in some of these recommendations. Take it FWIW.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 26 Aug 2011 14:33

Vik, it seems the main perception is, it's not that stylish to have a Nano. And it's not an actual car or it did not qualify to be a car (like say putting four wheels will not make it a car from a person who want to buy a car).
Second the low sales is still because the team has not managed to convince the person who plans to purchase a two wheeler to go for this car (The cost difference is still huge for him) Say a bike cost Rs.50,000 to 60,000. A Nano cost nearly 2 lakh. So I can have three two wheeler instead of one Nano.
If possible decrease the price to around 1 lakh (it must be a one lakh car as promised inclusive of taxes). If that can be achieved, there will be no two wheelers in India.
Third, the fire issue has not gone well with the ones who look to have a cheap second car, The ones who must have purchased it as a car meant for commuting short distances or gifted it as a birthday present to his/her daughter or son, will think twice because of safety concerns. {You can have the ad of Mom and dad gifting the Nano to their college going daughter, to attract the youth (They must be damn rich for sure

)}
Another one meant for the poor can be like they traveling in bike or Honda scooter. Suddenly it rains and they get drenched (including the children). The next scene is they are all in a Nano and it's raining heavily, and the family members has a smile on their lips as the rain is no more a botheration for them but a kind of enjoyment.
But one thing is, without cutting the cost of high end Nano to 1 lakh figure, it's very difficult.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 26 Aug 2011 14:46

uddu wrote:If possible decrease the price to around 1 lakh (it must be a one lakh car as promised inclusive of taxes). If that can be achieved, there will be no two wheelers in India.

It's not that straightforward. Fuel cost differences will still put people off. There is still a big gap between Nano and two wheelers as far as fuel economy is concerned.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 26 Aug 2011 15:05

Sriman wrote:
uddu wrote:If possible decrease the price to around 1 lakh (it must be a one lakh car as promised inclusive of taxes). If that can be achieved, there will be no two wheelers in India.
It's not that straightforward. Fuel cost differences will still put people off. There is still a big gap between Nano and two wheelers as far as fuel economy is concerned.

Yes that issue is also there. If Ratan tata has wanted a car that is a replacement for a bike, he must have thought about a car that gives 50 km per liter.

Now Tata can pull out everything inside the Nano, fit it with a lead acid battery and an electric engine and offer the 1 lakh Tata Electica.
This may sell, since there are a lot of incentives for an electric car from the government.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 26 Aug 2011 15:36

VikB wrote:RahulM

Idea of upgrade from motorcycle in advt has already been done.

I had to go to youtube to see it for the first time. TV exposure is very low. I admit I am not a big watcher but I haven't seen a nano ad in months. would have suggested ad during cricket but that doesn't look like a good idea right now.

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 26 Aug 2011 21:53

This isn't probably what TATA wants Nano to be used, but how the car used for replacing auto rickshaws? Sort of make it cheap city cab. I hope the engine does not fire on any other fuel other than gasoline...its 4-wheeler and not as manoeuvrable as rickshaw, which will force them drivers to be a little bit more responsible. It looks dashing in yellow color and with some stripes, it can be transformed in to a beautiful cab.

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 26 Aug 2011 22:14

It's already being used in Sri Lanka...and it looks way neater than the Bajaj 3 wheelers

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 2440998300

Zynda wrote:This isn't probably what TATA wants Nano to be used, but how the car used for replacing auto rickshaws? Sort of make it cheap city cab. I hope the engine does not fire on any other fuel other than gasoline...its 4-wheeler and not as manoeuvrable as rickshaw, which will force them drivers to be a little bit more responsible. It looks dashing in yellow color and with some stripes, it can be transformed in to a beautiful cab.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 26 Aug 2011 22:38

Buddh International Circuit, venue of the Indian Grand Prix:

Pic courtesy of link.

More pics at SSC-India

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 27 Aug 2011 13:43

Miles to go for e-cars in India
http://www.mydigitalfc.com/news/miles-g ... -india-810

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/0 ... -how-many/
For the sake of reduction of pollution and accidents the Government should have a proper strategy and plan to bring in electric cars only policy within in the Urban areas of India (particularly cities). With all facilities provided the government should plan to have all cars in main cities (at least all capitals) all the cars to be changed into Electric Cars within 15 years of time. Without such strategy the disaster is waiting to happen particularly there will not be much air left for city dwellers to breath though I do not want the state nanny.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 28 Aug 2011 10:23

As a common abdul I believe any addition on the promised price tag of 1 lakh will drive mangoes away from Nano. If I have to pay 2 lakhs then I would rather save up a little more and buy a Maruti. Only if it is available around 1 lakh I will consider replacing my bike with a Nano.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 28 Aug 2011 11:19

dilbu, is the maruti worth the extra lakh ?

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 28 Aug 2011 11:27

Rahul M wrote:dilbu, is the maruti worth the extra lakh ?

I was not speaking for myself saar. Such is the word on the street I am told. I spoke to a few local lads who have automobile dealerships. As for Maruti the brand recognition factor is still there. If you ask me I would probably prefer a Santro.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Aug 2011 11:39

e-cars cannot attain traction in India metros unless its worked out how such cars in apartment complexes will recharge in the parking area (usually the basement or ground level). currently there is not outlet for each apts meter in such areas and even if they were would need lockable door to prevent misuse by others.

only people with individual houses (rich and lucky in metros) and most people in tier2 and tier3 cities can have provision to charge cars in garage or street.

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 30 Aug 2011 12:11

Why this great need on this forum to make the Nano work?

Or is everybody treating it like a business school case study?

Rahul, the Maruti's absolutely worth the extra lakh. Anybody would think that I can spend a lakh extra and get a car that has the best aftersales in the country, any mechanic knows how to service a Maruti, the parts are readily available, its bigger than the Nano and has a bigger engine.

Avik · Post by **Avik** » 30 Aug 2011 13:18

The main problem with the Nano happenned with its positioning. A car, in India, is an aspirational product, and Nano's association with terms like the low cost car, the cheap car, the 1 lakh car etc, while correct literally, massively hurt the aspirational desire for the car. The same problem happened with the Logan when Renault went to town about how it was the low cost car etc. Mahindra tried to restrain them but weren't forceful enough, although with majority control now, they have completely changed the positioning. But as is evident from their sales volumes, the perception change will take time.

Tata also realized this , but late, by when the damage had been done. You cant call a car an autorickshaw replacement, when a family is saving up to buy a cherished car!!

The other stuff about dealership, spare parts etc. matter, but far less because the Tatas have a fairly widespread network because of the Indica.

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 30 Aug 2011 18:24

On the topic of Nano's replacing auto rickshaws, Tata have come up with a product Magic Iris which is supposed to do precisely that. Tata Ace magic and Mahindra maxximo will slowly replace the 3 wheeled diesel autos ferrying people across rural and suburban India. Per tbhp, a diesel nano with a promised mileage of 48 odd k is undergoing testing with Bosch.

People who test drive Nano are primarily the ones looking for a second car option and they compare Nano over their primary vehicle and crib. The same people would buy an alto/spark paying the extra money as they can afford it. Ideally it should be compared to an M800.

Ignoring the perception issues with the car, the real negatives from my perspective over an M800 are

1) A two pot petrol engine which makes it noisy
2) lack of power steering option (800 does not have it either)
3) Tata's inconsistent after sales support
4) Lower resale value
5) Lack of boot space, glove box
6) Lack of power when driven on a hilly terrain (800 is better)

On the flip side Nano offers
1) Better space (Nano is bigger inside than 800 or even alto)
2) better safety
3) BS4 engine
4) Excellent A/c whose filter gets dirty pretty easily though
5) Nice torquey engine for city drives
6) Top speed of 105 kmph

I came close to buying it twice but did not take the plunge. First for my dad, who liked it but for the lack of power steering option as he has a plate bolted in his arms. Second time, for my SHQ as a second car so that she can learn and sell it 6 months down the line. However dropped the idea due to poor resale value despite a zero down payment +lowest interest option for employees of my company. An second hand alto would cost me Rs. 1 lakh 60 odd and after 6 months can sell it for 1lakh fifty odd where as I would loose close to a lakh on a Nano. Can't keep it as don't want to maintain 2 cars in the long run.

Avik · Post by **Avik** » 30 Aug 2011 19:11

^^^^^^^

Sridhar K: The second car segment is still a very minor segment of the market. Very few cars in India, if at all, are launched targeting just the second car segment- at best, its an add-on. The Nano, as it was positioned during its launch, was supposed to be a mass market car. The second car segment is a happenstance, really.

Perceptions matter..because we're dealing with brands, especially aspirational products like cars.

The Nano was supposed to provide an easy entry point to the legions of bike riders, who expend close to Rs 50 k for a two wheeler. The Nano was, in theory at least targeting this segment as it moved up; and, not M-800 owners who would trade down. It was for this segment, for whom, like the majority of car owners, that the Nano was

supposed

to be an aspirational product.

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 30 Aug 2011 22:11

Avik wrote:^^^^^^^

Sridhar K: The second car segment is still a very minor segment of the market. Very few cars in India, if at all, are launched targeting just the second car segment- at best, its an add-on. The Nano, as it was positioned during its launch, was supposed to be a mass market car. The second car segment is a happenstance, really.

Agreed. What I am trying to convey is that it could be actually do well in the second car segment especially for ladies if certain things are set right.

However for the mass market segment it is a different story. The car did incur a lot of initial bookings but the wait time due to Singur fiasco, the media hype over the fire accidents and the subsequent cost escalations seems to have affected the car a great deal. Cost of a two wheeler is around Rs 50k range (executive segment) OTR and the cheapest Nano is around 1.5 Lakhs, which is around 3 times highter. Even in the finance option, increased EMI is a tad difficult for people to afford. For people making the shift to 4 wheelers , they prefer a second hand 800 or alto for Rs 1.6 odd lakhs. Was amazed to see the price of second hand altos in Chennai 1.5 -2 lakhs even for cars that are aged 1-5 yrs.

The perception about the car with this segment needs to change and Tata's have to target them. They tried to target the ITvity crowd (owning two wheelers today and the second car segment) in my company and don't think the drive was very successful (based on feedback from dealers who were liaising with the company but I could be wrong).

A similar campaign on the vernacular media is important. For example the beautiful adverts targeting such a segment came up with hindi voiceover, will never find any takers in places like TN. The adverts need to a be a lot simple and direct hitting like the ones Tata's have for the ACE.

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 31 Aug 2011 14:22

Peugeot follows Nano and Ford to Sanand

The company will be signing a formal memorandum of understanding (MoU) with the state government on September 1.

The company intends to invest Rs4,000 crore to Rs5,000 crore.
Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh were also in race to offer land to the company for company’s first plant in India. However, it seems the company has preferred Gujarat over the two other states

One more automobile coming into NM kitty.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 03 Sep 2011 20:59

Apologies if already posted.

India is on the move with air powered cars.

http://kealakai.byuh.edu/index.php?Item ... nt&id=4105

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Sep 2011 18:47

being five times cheaper i am sure they can. harley et al can target only the bmw set at their price points.

negi · Post by **negi** » 04 Sep 2011 20:56

Bullets have their own charm ; some people buy them in Massa too.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 04 Sep 2011 21:27

DDM never fails to shock me with their stupidity! HD/Triumph vs Enfield Bullet ?!? What are they smoking?

They have as much "charm" as the commie-Amby! We just refuse to give up our colonial British past. The 1930s era "thumper" costs around 200 thousand Rs to buy in India, that's a lot of money for that piece of junk that seized on me twice within first 6 months in 2003 ! Sure, they have improved their engine thanks to AVL of Austria. The only reason why they are still in business is due to the young crowd in India with just too much money to spend,and they'll spend on anything that is a bit "off routine".

ManjaM · Post by **ManjaM** » 05 Sep 2011 07:49

^^ weren't the 350s priced at ~75k and the 500 s priced at ~98k back in 2003? AFAIK the 2 lakh price tag is a recent thing after RE revamped their product line. Loyalty to RE i believe has nothing to do with British or some colonial mindset. I bought a used one in 04, and after all the fixes+cost of the bike it has cost me around 26000 INR.

OT - http://www.musketvtwin.com/home.html

V twin enfield made from 350 cc barrels

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Sep 2011 09:56

the goras will either have to localize heavily and manufacture in india to compete anywhere near the price band of bajaj/RE or hope that we enjoy 15% GDP growth per annum for a decade so that enjoy people move up into a earnings bracket where a 5L bike is considered possible. or they will have to rig the Govt regulations to allow CKD imports at very low taxation rates.

right now any badboy wanting a 5-10L bike can expect to be hit with a frying pan by SHQ/GHQ with no questions asked.

btw honda is offering the CBR250 and CBR1000 in india now. price is 1.68 and 2.0 for the CBR250 and 12L for the 1000.

@1.25-1.50 there could potentially be a considerable market in a few years.....I guess honda, yamaha, suzuki, kawasaki, bmw could target that segment and localize for that. middle aged geeks who have paid off the house EMI could aspire for it , esp if they used bikes earlier in life before marriage before moving to 4-wheeler.

the 250R looks like a sleek and practical city bike, small enough not to kill the rider or anyone in its way.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Sep 2011 11:31

I am one of those Middleage geeks still dreaming of paying up the substantial Housing Loan and then purchasing Royal Enfield Classic 500.

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 05 Sep 2011 16:56

Ambar wrote:DDM never fails to shock me with their stupidity! HD/Triumph vs Enfield Bullet ?!? What are they smoking?

They have as much "charm" as the commie-Amby! We just refuse to give up our colonial British past. The 1930s era "thumper" costs around 200 thousand Rs to buy in India, that's a lot of money for that piece of junk that seized on me twice within first 6 months in 2003 ! Sure, they have improved their engine thanks to AVL of Austria. The only reason why they are still in business is due to the young crowd in India with just too much money to spend,and they'll spend on anything that is a bit "off routine".

And what have you been smoking?

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 05 Sep 2011 21:21

Thought you could do better than hurling personal insults!

What exactly is it that makes one compare a Bullet and a Harley Davidson ? Two motorcycles that are as different as chalk and cheese! Its like someone trying to say "Will Bentley Continental's entry into India take some shine off Tata Nano ?". The only progress RE has made in the last 60 years was to change the wheel size from 19" to 18", and then go to Austria and ask AVL to build a engine that would not seize within first 6 months or leave a pool of oil on your drive way everytime you park!

RE peddled the cast iron,pushrod 350cc engine up until early 2000 because they knew nothing better and had no R&D dept to speak of! The Machismo had alloys of such low quality it cracked at multiple places within a matter of months! Thats before we get to the welds on the chassis that looked as if it was put together by a half paralyzed monkey! And then their municipality office like after sales service at dealer network. I was told my engine seized twice within 1000 kms because i was riding "too fast!". Convincing that I've owned atleast a 7 motorcycles in the past and i know what a break-in period is would fall on deaf ears. Like someone once said in a RE meet, RE created the worlds biggest and fastest vibrator and that's it!

Heard after much celebrations about "ground breaking" efforts by RE and their fuel injected engines on CL, they are running back to carbs because of soot filled cylinders and plugs within the first 1000 kms! And before someone says they export a few of them to England every year, the local dealers in UK strip and rebuild Bullets before selling them to end customers.The sustainability of RE in India was due to the same reasons why PAL/HM stayed in business. License raj and government orders. Yezdi would have sold plenty of bikes too had they been around to see India turn into a thriving economy, unfortunately the Irani brothers decided to run away. RE survived, and used their "big bike" image in a growing market full of 100cc motorcycles. Don't believe any of these ? Login to Indiethumpers and hear what even the most ardent loyal fans of Bullet have to say about them.

So apart from the fact that Bullet and HD/Triumphs are motorcycles with 2 wheels on them, there is no reason at any level to compare them! Then again, i have long given up hope of expecting sense from Indian media, both print and electronic.