Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 12 Aug 2011 18:05

Message being delivered to TSP - we will disarm you.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 12 Aug 2011 18:07

And the PLA to North and North-East

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Aug 2011 20:04

More importantly the location of the test. Its Pokhran and not Chandipur. Means its with the Indian Army and is deployed asset and not a development article.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 12 Aug 2011 20:14

ramana,

IIRC, 2 (including this) have been tested in Pokharan.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 12 Aug 2011 20:21

More than 2.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Aug 2011 20:23

CJ, I am referring to current test. Past is past.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 12 Aug 2011 21:54

Yup. User trial too. While "a month long exercise" is going on just across the marshes.

We normally get 3 months advance notice before we do any such exercises right? In this case no notice was given, so it means that the decision was urgent. Pasha was in Beijing on a number of secret visits.

The very location is the most interesting and when you look at the whole geopolitical situation, its even more interesting.

Is it normal to have military exercises in the sweltering heat?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 12 Aug 2011 22:28

is this possible by block 3?

say, ach or dhruv gives coordinates to launch on a cave kamplex filled with high valued targets., and it is many hills and mountains to go by, and the entry to cave is on the opposite side facing launch direction, meaning the block-3 needs to do a u-turn+top+side attacks and navigate to cave entry...

hopefully, infra-reds can further guide to fly through the cave if in depth.

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 12 Aug 2011 22:56

dinesha wrote:AP missile project hits a gas block
Companies involved in oil exploration have already begun lobbying with the Centre to shift the missile site to the Andamans.[/b]

Are these companies "supported" by their or some other government to delay our mijjile program ? Besides having a few billion neighbours as enemies, we have enough enemies in our own country who would sell their mother (forget motherland) if the money is right.

Kersi

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 13 Aug 2011 09:31

SaiK wrote:is this possible by block 3?

say, ach or dhruv gives coordinates to launch on a cave kamplex filled with high valued targets., and it is many hills and mountains to go by, and the entry to cave is on the opposite side facing launch direction, meaning the block-3 needs to do a u-turn+top+side attacks and navigate to cave entry...

hopefully, infra-reds can further guide to fly through the cave if in depth.

As long it has the range and enough room to manouver. Within the range it can very well correct directions. It might not be needing tight turns. Onboard computer can calculate most optimum angles wrt terrain. Then it the function of warhead. IMO two or three such hits can safely close the mouth of the cave due to kinetic energy and subsequent warhead blast (300 kgs!). It could put the area out of operation for long time. I would reccomend periodical hits (may be 5 hours apart after the first 2 initial simultaneous salvo). It can be followed up with shells containing area denial munitions like the once dropped on air bases which blast on touch and naphalm. That is if the target is high value/critical.

If its a nuclear missile launch site, I will reccomend additional strikes on the mouth of the launch pad. IMO 2 -3 hits can expose the cavity or collapse the cavity rendering the silo unusable. Even if we are able to expose the silo, then international community can take over from there.

sum · Post by **sum** » 13 Aug 2011 12:59

The Block-III version, in turn, has "steep dive capability" to take out targets hidden behind a mountain range.

If this doesn't cause dhoti shiver for Gen Kidwai and the SPD folks, dont know what will...

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 13 Aug 2011 13:05

If I understand correctly, then only the 1st batch i.e. Anti-Ship Brahmos was a Russian Import with Fire control tech. from our side but the subsequent modification that we have made to make the missile ready for high altitude land attack was doen purely by us. In that case we should be able to use some of these tech. on Nirbhay too as the Brahmos might have certain usage limitations due to its high cost and limited range.

Brahmos even in its current form is good to use for high value targets like Ships and land based capital assets but not a mass usage strike weapon like Tomahawk.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 15 Aug 2011 22:12

^^^ Cost of Brahmos should have come down considerably as we are manufacturing most components in India. Two items for which we were dependent on the Bear were Engine and Seeker and last I heard, we have developed these too. What item are we dependent on the Bear for? Are we still paying royalty to the russkies?
Nihant, significant learning from Brahmos has already been incorporated into other Indian Missiles!!!

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 15 Aug 2011 23:03

shyamd wrote:We normally get 3 months advance notice before we do any such exercises right?

Cruise missile tests do not come under purview of Indo-Pak agreement to publish missile test dates in advance. It is only applicable to Ballistic missiles.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 15 Aug 2011 23:14

^^Thanks. I was actually referring to the PRC Pak exercise.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 16 Aug 2011 20:10

>>The very location is the most interesting and when you look at the whole geopolitical situation, its even more interesting.

What made you to feel like that? Do share your views.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 18 Aug 2011 11:07

Hypersonic follow up to BRAHMOS signed off at MAKS

http://www.defenseworld.net/go/defensen ... %20Project

Brahmos to Fund IISC-Moscow Aviation Institute Hypersonic Missile Project

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 19 Aug 2011 23:43

Kanson wrote: What made you to feel like that? Do share your views.

"Indian N proliferation". Look at whats across the desert

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 20 Aug 2011 17:58

I'm unable to get pass through your riddle, Shyamd. If you are willing to explain in this or some other thread, I'm all ears.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 22 Aug 2011 19:00

BrahMos sets the ‘gold standard’ for Russian-Indian defence projects

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 23 Aug 2011 02:39

shukla wrote:BrahMos sets the ‘gold standard’ for Russian-Indian defence projects

Shukla ji, I wish this was true. If it was, I don't see why the South Korean project below took shape. Instead, Brahmos' first export should've been to South Korea.

The Chosunilbo: Supersonic Cruise Missile in Development

pralay · Post by **pralay** » 23 Aug 2011 06:04

PratikDas wrote:
shukla wrote:BrahMos sets the ‘gold standard’ for Russian-Indian defence projects
Shukla ji, I wish this was true. If it was, I don't see why the South Korean project below took shape. Instead, Brahmos' first export should've been to South Korea.

The Chosunilbo: Supersonic Cruise Missile in Development

Why our success with Brahmos will deter SK from developing their own missile of similar category? rather it would be encouraging for them as the feasibility is demonstrated by us.
Also not all nations prefer to rely on imports, when it comes to items of national security

but its good that SK is preparing to counter Chinese Aircraft Carriers before they start sailing in the South Asias Seas.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 23 Aug 2011 06:38

sameer_shelavale wrote: ....
Why our success with Brahmos will deter SK from developing their own missile of similar category? rather it would be encouraging for them as the feasibility is demonstrated by us.
Also not all nations prefer to rely on imports, when it comes to items of national security
but its good that SK is preparing to counter Chinese Aircraft Carriers before they start sailing in the South Asias Seas.

The South Korean missile, like Brahmos, is also going to be based on the Yakhont missile. So Russia is repeating with South Korea what they did with India. Defeats the purpose of exporting Brahmos, doesn't it? Not so funny now, is it?

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 23 Aug 2011 09:31

nukavarapu wrote:
PratikDas wrote:The South Korean missile, like Brahmos, is also going to be based on the Yakhont missile. So Russia is repeating with South Korea what they did with India. Defeats the purpose of exporting Brahmos, doesn't it? Not so funny now, is it?
Any proof to backup your claim? Modeling after does not specifically mean that Russians are actively helping them. And even for just argument sake we consider that Russia is actively helping, don't you think an already tried and tested product has a stronger case than the one in development?

I misinterpreted the article. Russian participation isn't suggested. Brahmos fans have my apologies.

nits · Post by **nits** » 23 Aug 2011 12:01

Murugan wrote:Brahmos Block-III User Trial Successful

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 578740.cms

POKHRAN: The Army today successfully conducted the user trial of BrahMos Block-III supersonic cruise missiles that has the ability to engage inaccessible targets inside hillocks.

The test was carried out at a firing range here around 1100 hours and met all the mission parameters, sources told PTI here.

The Block III version has the capability of scaling mountainous terrain and can take a steep dive to engage targets located inside hillocks which are otherwise inaccessible.

This was the 25th test of the cruise missile which has already been inducted in the Army and Navy.Army has plans to induct the missile for mountain warfare.

...

The submarine and air launch version of the missile are under different stages of development and are scheduled for test-firing in next couple of years.

The fire-and-forget missiles are stored, transported and launched from special mobile launchers and can be launched in both vertical and horizontal modes.

Do we have Mountains around Pokhran to test the steep dive capability...

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Aug 2011 11:48

nits wrote:Do we have Mountains around Pokhran to test the steep dive capability...

No, there aren't any but we do not need to have mountains to test the capability.

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 24 Aug 2011 12:29

SSridhar wrote:
nits wrote:Do we have Mountains around Pokhran to test the steep dive capability...
No, there aren't any but we do not need to have mountains to test the capability.

I believe what Shridhar ji is saying is that ze mountains could very well be simulated and accordingly the mijjile will conduct manouvers to duck and climb and then the ultimate test is the steep dive which really doesnt need a mountaneous terrain as it will come down straight onto the target.

Spare a thought though for the target because its gonna have a projectile travelling at twice the speed of sound with a decent warhead and residual fuel truly shakinah effect as GD calls it...

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 24 Aug 2011 13:26

nits wrote:Do we have Mountains around Pokhran to test the steep dive capability...

What they would do or perhaps did is they would fly Brahmos at couple of thousand feet and once they find their target it would do a steep dive at it from high altitude , think of it as LGB being dropped at the target from high altitude when they steep dive at it while the laser keeps aimed at the target, the only difference is with Brahmos it will be high supersonic with loads of KE and Warhead.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 25 Aug 2011 13:47

Agni-II ready for testing from Wheeler Island

BALASORE: India is all set to test its 2,000-km range Agni-II missile from Wheeler Island off the Orissa coast next week. The test will be conducted by the Strategic Forces Command (SFC) of the Indian Army.

A team of Army personnel and scores of DRDO scientists are camping here for the crucial test. "Agni-II's user training trial is likely to be conducted any time between August 29 and 30 to give the necessary confidence to the armed forces that the two-stage, solid-fuelled missile can be fired whenever required," said a defence scientist.

The indigenously built weapon is a two-stage solid propelled ballistic missile that weighs 17 tonne and is 20 metre long. It can carry a payload of 1 tonne over a distance of 2,000 km. Agni-II was developed by Advanced Systems Laboratory along with other DRDO laboratories. The missile is part of the Agni series, which included Agni-I with a 700-km range and Agni-III with a 3,500-km range. While Agni-I and Agni-II have been already inducted, Agni-III is in the process of induction.

Agni-II is a ready-to-fire missile with a launch time of about 15 minutes. The missile uses solid propulsion booster and liquid propulsion upper state. The strap-down inertial navigation system provides the necessary guidance, accuracy and uses an advanced composite structure for protecting the payload during the re-entry phase.

The missile technologists are leaving no stone unturned to make this trial of Agni-II missile successful as the fear of technological glitches haunts them. Agni-II, an already-proven missile, had developed snags twice consecutively during user training exercises in 2009, putting the entire DRDO fraternity in an embarrassing situation.

However, during a similar test on May 17 last year, the missile was claimed to be tested successfully.

The scientist said the DRDO was working on multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles technology for the Agni series of ballistic missiles, which would help the missiles carry a bunch of nuclear warheads in a single payload, each of which can hit different targets along separate trajectories.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 25 Aug 2011 16:48

nits wrote:
Murugan wrote:Brahmos Block-III User Trial Successful

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 578740.cms

Do we have Mountains around Pokhran to test the steep dive capability...

Last test of Block-III was done through electronic simulation in Bay of Bengal, where it traveled along the exact way points programmed and carried the maneuver simulating mountain environment and went into a steep dive.

This test being carried out in Pokhran, Army could have constructed/assembled terrain simulating mountain like features to check the validity.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 25 Aug 2011 17:34

The SoKo missile is merely taking inspiration from Brahmos/Yakhont.It is reportedly smaller.Perhaps the SoKos and the Taiwanese should collaborate on such a missile as the Taiwanese have also similar plans.Russia/India will not sell Brahmos to SoKo because it is heavily dominated by the US in military matters-a military ally and the details could easily be compromised....and delivered to the Pakis!

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 25 Aug 2011 18:06

Wasn't the August 29th test of Agni going to be the Agni 2 prime? But the article posted above says Agni 2.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Aug 2011 19:28

This is an operational test. The other is a devleopment test.

It would be good for credibility if the SFC has its own team in charge of the test and have the DRDO members on secondment for those tests that are conducted by SFC.

Otherwise it gives the impression of never ending development.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 27 Aug 2011 09:22

The DRDO in a way is extremely clever, they have given a whole family of missiles a common name. Agni, Whether it is Agni, 1,2,3, or prime. They are all different missiles and yet, they are covered under the same programme. Hell of a way of confusing both the enemies and the friends

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 27 Aug 2011 09:48

Its good as long as they or the user doesnt get confused

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 27 Aug 2011 12:04

^^ Like the confused user testing A5 instead of A1 and the missile goes all the way to Sanya@Hainan Island instead of splashing in the Bay of Bengal? That would be a major oops...

Pandav · Post by **Pandav** » 27 Aug 2011 15:49

Enjoy!!!!!!!

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 27 Aug 2011 21:19

tsarkar wrote:^^ Like the confused user testing A5 instead of A1 and the missile goes all the way to Sanya@Hainan Island instead of splashing in the Bay of Bengal? That would be a major oops...

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 27 Aug 2011 23:04

Pandav wrote:http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-u3gMREg_Rvk/T ... ge-001.jpg

Enjoy!!!!!!!

Link sir jee ? I couldn't find it.

Pandav · Post by **Pandav** » 28 Aug 2011 15:52

jamwal wrote:
Pandav wrote:http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-u3gMREg_Rvk/T ... ge-001.jpg

Enjoy!!!!!!!

Link sir jee ? I couldn't find it.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-u3gMREg_Rvk/T ... ge-001.jpg