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"@Gopal_US yes I did. He was under suspicion all the time. We kept warning him against these actions. Yet! Nature gave us this evidence!"
Swami Agnivesh-> Maoist Supporter-> Close to Congress High Command-> things keep getting Murkier.
In this fast moving thread, it was mentioned several times on this thread. Anna may be great person. The whole movement that got a lot of support ( and now the folks are very emotional) has seriouly suspicious characters.
I would put Swami Agnivesh and Bhushans on the INC inflitrators side.
Neutral side - Arvind Kejariwal ( I still doubt due to he more left leaning and disdain to Bhara Mata ki jai, Vandemataram)
While the government is stuck with redrafting the LPB, let see what they can do -
1. Inclusion of PM - defense and home / foreign affairs are already being spoken of as exclusions, add to the list so as to make it impossible to implicate the PM like issues concerning national priorities - 2G can come here. This one is critical immediately since MMS is already implicated (and guilty in my book).
2. Inclusion of lower bureaucracy - Complicated, leave it to the states to mess it up?
3. Lokayuktas in states - Difficult one to get out of, co-opt 2 states and make it a model law. Give the states a long handle to implement it.
Hours before Anna Hazare broke a 13-day hunger strike that shook the nation, all roads led to the Ramlila ground. And as he sipped coconut water, tens of thousands gave him a standing, boisterous ovation that would make any politician go green with envy. It was a mini India out there. saffron robed swami. A tall Nihang Sikh in bright blue. Mahatma Gandhi lookalikes. Men with Rajasthani head gears. Retired employees. The jobless. Traders. Vendors. Bus drivers. Farmers.
Singha wrote:speaking of Soniaji, where exactly is she - new york or tuscany? and why such a longish absense?
Singha ji I am following this topic very closely. Due to obsession of Gandhi family with privacy and their idea that they do not need to explain them selves to the country it is only a specualtion where is she.
But according to articles appeared in Telegraph UK, Deccan Herald, BBC She is in New York cancer centre. She is either suffering from cancer cervix or a rare form of large bowel cancer, as understood she is recuperating after big surgery.
She is likely to come back in first week of Septembet but she won't be able to guide the congress party for another 2 months at least. (acc to Priyanka Gandhi)
Her absence has been felt sorely by congress and there is a leader ship vaccum due to Rahul gandhi working at best as part time politician.
She rang up top leader ship of Congree from US to make sure that Pranab is chief of crisis committe , such was disarray in congress (India Today)
I guess thats why suddenly Pranabda was all over TV and led the INC in parliament while MMS never prominent, faded out totally.
this incident has been a rude awakening for yuvraj I think - all his youth kangress stormtrooper spokesmen came across as simians, lost face, had to apologise for their wrong statements and neither was he able to pull off the usual media supported stunt of being the mahdi.
A sad state of affairs for a party that has such a long experience in governing the country. Incompetent leadership is insecure, which leads to extermination of any credible challengers. Do we have constitutional hierarchy for taking up the mantle of leading the country? (I am not suggest we have the same model as the US, but a succession model is mandatory). This crisis might have given our enemies very many ideas about how to paralyze the leadership! This episode (I am sure there would have been many others earlier) has exposed that the GOI executive leadership structure is severely compromised.
This article explains in full details the disarray , miscommunication + indiscipline inside congress vis a vis AH crisis. Also it outlines counter productive role of Rahul Gandhi
As I quoted before from Tennyson,"the old order changeth....and God fulfils himself in many ways..."
The Congress/UPA has to be turned upside down before it regains a semblance of credibility.What is absolutely clear though is that Man Mubarak Singh has lost the plot,lost his "clothes" and lost the confidence of the nation.The sooner he retires from the game the better fo usall,but drowning men still like toi clutch at straws and power-hungry,nay power-crazed drowning men do not realise that they're drowning! Thus a tragedy is in the offing and let us watch history's tragedy in the making before it returns as farce!
Wild (& probably 400% speculative) rumor doing some charmed web circles is that Moan moan Singh may make way for the original grandmaster of INC Politics (in the post PVNR era, at any rate) Pranab da to take the helm. Raul has chickened out totally only.
"Rule" Gandhi giving up the ghost so easily?! Doesn't sound quite right.He probably wants another pawn-broker to face the music for the moment from Citizen India!
The civil society had also sought inclusion of Prime Minister, higher judiciary and MPs conduct in Parliament within the purview of the bill but he settled for referring three of his key issue to the committee which will report back to Parliament.
The politicians are one in that Parliament has prevailed over Hazare that it has not conceded any of his major demands but only referred some issues for scrutiny by the Standing Committee
The BSP on the other hand maintained that the Gandhian can "himself" answer on what he achieved by his agitation
Questions being raised if Anna really won?
Interesting to observe that small regional parties who heavily depend on a caste based divided society are most staunch enemy of AH movement http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 769661.cms
He was articulate, authoritative and very non-BJP. It was a chance for the other Gandhi on the block, Varun, to reassert his credentials as a leader of substance in Parliament. He managed it with aplomb. Varun Gandhi has certainly come a long way from being a rabble-rouser.
In 2009, when Varun unleashed a speech laced with great hatred against the Muslim community at an election rally, it left political observers shocked. He not only spewed invectives but also threatened to kill and cut heads and hands. A surprised BJP had then sought to distance itself from the comments.
It created serious doubts about his leadership qualities, and worse, it put him in sharp contrast to his suave and sober cousin Rahul Gandhi, who was going up the popularity charts through his goodwill hunting trips across the country.
Varun's speech was more into specifics. It reflected his sensitivity to the poor and the underprivileged but in a different way than Rahul’s.
The poor cousin not only scored big today through his no-nonsense speech but also revived the comparison with Rahul. Compared to the latter on the basis of speeches both made in Parliament — Rahul did it yesterday during Zero Hour —he comes off much better.
If words were to be the yardstick to judge personalities, both speeches speak a lot. Varun comes across as confident, aggressive and assertive while Rahul looks more of a protected child at loss when faced with tough situations. It could be because of the peculiar circumstances both are born into. But here’s a disclaimer. Speeches could be a hugely flawed yardstick too.
Yesterday, Rahul impressed nobody with his “game-changer’’ speech. He sought to leave a personal imprint on the debate by being different. “Why not elevate the debate and fortify the Lokpal by making it a constitutional body accountable to Parliament like the Election Commission?” he said among other things. It was off the point, thus had no takers. No wonder, he was accused of making sermons to the House.
Moreover, he looked tense and angry — certainly not the best way to engage listeners. If he was trying to be aggressive, the effort showed. More than being aggressive he looked hassled and nervous.
He has only "suspended" his fast not ended it, Anna Hazare said Sunday and added that his campaign for a strong Lokpal institution would continue till parliament passed the anti-graft bill.
"I have just suspended the fast... did not end it. The fight will go on till parliament passes the Lokpal bill," the 74-year-old told thousands of his cheering supporters at the Ramlila Maidan. He also called for peoples' participation for electoral reforms.
He broke his 288-hour-fast after sipping coconut water and honey offered by two young girls - Simran and Iqra - one a Dalit, the other a Muslim.
more work ahead...
"We have to change the election system of the country... we have the right to reject," he said, adding that people should be allowed to use the option not to vote if they don't like any candidate.
Referring more than once to B.R. Ambedkar, the architect of the Indian constitution and champion of Dalit cause, Hazare said "justice must be ensured for the farmers of the country who are in a pitiable state today". He also talked about bridging the rich-poor divide and fighting against commercialisaion of education.
"The fight has begun with the Lokpal bill. That's why I have just suspended the fast, did not end it," he said.
Thanking the youth of the nation for their immense support to the movement, Hazare described them as the strength of India.
"I am very happy that a movement of this enormity was non-violent. You have set an example to the whole world," Hazare said amid loud applause.
He also had a word for those who sported Gandhi caps with the 'I am Anna' written on it.
"You cannot become Anna just by wearing the cap. You have to have pure thoughts, work diligently, be unselfish, be ready to sacrifice and be able to tolerate cynicism...," Hazare said.
In Anna Hazare’s backyard, official energy is currently focused on one anti-corruption struggle: how to get Rs 2,000 out of a revenue official, who allegedly swallowed the money when caught red-handed accepting bribe on Thursday afternoon.
Strong laxatives given at the Sassoon Hospital here today evening didn’t help retrieve the two notes of Rs 1,000 denomination reportedly lodged firmly inside Satish Shelke. A talathi posted at Narayangaon in Pune district, he had reportedly demanded Rs 2,000 from a farmer to provide him some documents.
“We need the currency notes as evidence. We hope that pieces of the notes come out due to the laxatives,” said Deputy Superintendent Satish Patil of ACB, Pune.
ACB officials had first taken Shelke to a local hospital for endoscopy, which reportedly confirmed the presence of the money. When an X-ray showed that currency notes had moved down inside the intestines, he was brought to Sassoon Hospital.
Outlining his future agenda, Hazare chose reforms in election and education systems and working for the betterment of farmers and labourers.
He said his fight would now be for Right to Recall and Right to Reject. While Right to Recall would be for those elected, the Right to Reject will be a column in the ballot paper which would ensure the voter has a right to say that he does not like the listed candidates.
"We have to reform electoral system. (we need) Right to Reject. You should be able to reject your candidate in the ballot paper. We have to do that. If majority say they do not like any of the candidates in the fray, the election should be cancelled. How much money they (candidates) will distribute? Once the candidate spends Rs 10 crore for one election and if the election is cancelled, then right sense will dawn upon them," he said.
Hazare said the fight for change should also focus on issues like protecting environment because the country may run out of fossil fuels like coal and petrol and those in power do not have the capacity to think of the future.
"We have to think over these things in the fight for change. We should not keep quiet even if the whole of Jan Lokpal Bill is passed," he said.
Another area of concern for Hazare was the commercialisation of education and he said, "many people have commercialised education. They have opened shops. Children of poor people also should get education. This sector also needs reforms."
"Even if Jan Lokpal Bill is fully adopted, we have to continue to carry the flame of this struggle for change. I am confident that Parliament will not reject these demands. Even if it happens, people's Parliament will not reject these...The fight has just begun," he said.
Hazare said the current campaign has given him such inspiration that he will not keep quiet till change is brought. He also said he will tour the country to campaign for bringing in "much required" changes.
Against the backdrop of criticism from a section of Dalit leaders that his movement was anti-Constitution, Hazare said the movement was inspired by the Constitution written by B R Ambedkar, whom Dalits consider as their icon.
"Through this agitation we have also proved that people's parliament is supreme than the Parliament in Delhi. Ambedkar has inspired us. He enacted the constitution. We have to fight for them," Hazare said.
He also sought decentralisation of power, saying the real power should wrest with gram sabhas. "The Gram Sabhas should have the power to dismiss Gram Panchayats if they spend money without the former's permission," he said.
Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi today said that the anti-corruption movement headed by Anna Hazare has reinforced confidence in the strength of non-violence.
"The past and the present proves the fact that non-violence is in the DNA of Indians," Modi tweeted on the micro-blogging site minutes after Hazare broke his fast on the 13th day of the agitation.
"For many of us who didn't witness the Independence struggle, anti-corruption movement reinforces confidence in the strength of non-violence," he stated on the site.
Modi, who has been supporting Hazare and his team in the fight against corruption, further said, "those who've taken the path of Naxalism and Terrorism must recognize the power of non-violence."
The chief minister further said that "it (non-violence) will make India stronger and serve humanity."
Coincidentally, Seshan—the man who cleaned up the election system during his tenure from 1990-96 when he was CEC—bobbed up from nowhere to say that he had already crossed the T’s and dotted the I’s for exactly such a bill.
Former Indian election chief T N Seshan. Reuters
Speaking to Times Now, he said a group of experts under him had formulated such a bill, and it was ready for introduction “tomorrow morning at 11 am in Parliament.”
Were Rahul and Seshan in cahoots or is it one of those unexplainable coincidences?
Seshan said he had never met, nor had he even spoken to, Rahul Gandhi. But he said he had given a copy of the draft Bill to Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, who has been playing mediator between Team Anna and the government to resolve the impasse. Seshan also said that his bill was “absolutely parallel” to the ideas mentioned by Rahul Gandhi in his Parliament speech.
Sri Sri, however, seemed unhappy with the Rahul’s speech. He said the Seshan draft was for the long term, and the Congress should pass the Jan Lokpal Bill. Talking about constitutional amendments was like giving a hungry man a mango seed when the tree would yield fruit only after several years.
The question is if Sri Sri also agent of CON Gandh DIE-nasty.
bhayyu maharaj is guru of vilasrao deshmukh and also one other big NCP neta. grapevine says that bhayyu maharaj is instrumental and plays key role in keeping this alliance in MH.
Coincidentally, Seshan—the man who cleaned up the election system during his tenure from 1990-96 when he was CEC—bobbed up from nowhere to say that he had already crossed the T’s and dotted the I’s for exactly such a bill.
Former Indian election chief T N Seshan. Reuters
Speaking to Times Now, he said a group of experts under him had formulated such a bill, and it was ready for introduction “tomorrow morning at 11 am in Parliament.”
Were Rahul and Seshan in cahoots or is it one of those unexplainable coincidences?
Seshan said he had never met, nor had he even spoken to, Rahul Gandhi. But he said he had given a copy of the draft Bill to Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, who has been playing mediator between Team Anna and the government to resolve the impasse. Seshan also said that his bill was “absolutely parallel” to the ideas mentioned by Rahul Gandhi in his Parliament speech.
Sri Sri, however, seemed unhappy with the Rahul’s speech. He said the Seshan draft was for the long term, and the Congress should pass the Jan Lokpal Bill. Talking about constitutional amendments was like giving a hungry man a mango seed when the tree would yield fruit only after several years.
The question is if Sri Sri also agent of CON Gandh DIE-nasty.
NEGATIVE!!
Sri Sri is more comfortable on the other end of the political spectrum.
His group provided a lot of the "back office" (not back channel) services during the Anna fasting.
Postes about caharacter of Agniveshlong time ago. BR ahead the curve once again..........actually everybody from Rohtak (Haryana) knows him. Not surprised at all.
If I am a congressman, I would love to see "Right to reject" passed. That ensures another 100 year rule for congress party. It votebank (Dalits+Minorities) will vote for congress party while the other middle India keeps voting "I reject all the candidate in the fray" or some junky non-serious-but-sure-to-lose independents.
Sri Sri is more comfortable on the other end of the political spectrum.
His group provided all the "back office" services during the Anna fasting.
Hope you are right. I will very disappointed if it is not the case. I have great respect for him.
Frankly, it is better religious leaders stay away from Political issues. Mix of religion and Politics is never good. The maximum they should do is give advise, opinion when specifically asked.
Nirad Babu was always prone to over-statement but the past week has seen India’s intellectual elite taking up cudgels for a beleaguered government and a failing system. In the face of some of the most amazing assertions of people’s power throughout urban India, the intellectuals have reached for their guns screaming, ‘middle class’ and, therefore, regressive and potentially fascist. The flag-waving enthusiasm of young people and retired policewomen have been equated with World Cup boisterousness and chants of "Vande Mataram", "Bharat Mata ki Jai" and the singing of "Ram Dhun" mocked as exclusionary Hindu symbolism. The heartfelt indignation of a people angry and exasperated by the venality of national life has been painted as assaults on Parliament, the Constitution and democracy. Yesterday’s argumentative Indian, we are now told, has been transformed into demented followers of Hitler.
The starry-eyed romanticism that greeted Maoist insurgents in Bastar has abruptly become poison darts directed at a largely spontaneous but non-violent upsurge.
For decades, the middle classes have been pilloried for their lack of participation in India’s civic life. Their voting record was dismal and they have been charged with being preoccupied with their own families, their jobs, their consumerist excesses, Bollywood and cricket. Their rage at an unresponsive political class, an inefficient and leaky state and thwarted aspirations have been brushed aside contemptuously because they lacked collective clout. Now, when they have come out on the streets to challenge one of the foremost impediments to India’s emergence as a global economic power, they are being charged with impetuosity and impatience.
"They have no respect for procedures," we are told by the clever upholders of a rotten status quo; and "they are engaging in blackmail", say others. Both assertions are correct. At the heart of the recklessness, however, is the government’s penchant for subterfuge and low cunning. The regime had to be coerced by the Supreme Court into acknowledging the 2G scandal. There is unending foot-dragging over the scandalous mismanagement of the Commonwealth Games. Was there any show of contrition by the duly-elected government? Did we hear one word of apology to the nation by the Prime Minister? Instead, India was told there is no "magic wand" to fight corruption. Worse, the movement was sought to be derailed by stoking largely imaginary fears among Muslims, OBCs and dalits—the old divide-and-rule formula which has paid such rich dividends.
Muppalla wrote:If I am a congressman, I would love to see "Right to reject" passed. That ensures another 100 year rule for congress party. It votebank (Dalits+Minorities) will vote for congress party while the other middle India keeps voting "I reject all the candidate in the fray" or some junky non-serious-but-sure-to-lose independents.
Muppalla ji,
Unless I am mistaken, does this not relate to the right to reject before or recall a candidate after they have won the seat but does not perform as per the best interests of his constituents??
jagga wrote:I hope we don't forget what had happened at Ramlilla ground during BR's fast.
Well at this moment of rejoicing where people's voice against corruption is getting registered in the parliament, it must be also be the time to remember the effort by Baba Ramdev towards this.
From the words of Prasanthi Bhushan to an interview, It is Baba Ramdev who started anti-corruption drive at least 6 months before they started their own movement. Further added, he supports many of Baba Ramdev's points like withdrawing 1000 rupee denomination notes etc.
If this is the time for rejoice, it should include to remember and salute Baba Ramdev's effort too.
Muppalla wrote:If I am a congressman, I would love to see "Right to reject" passed. That ensures another 100 year rule for congress party. It votebank (Dalits+Minorities) will vote for congress party while the other middle India keeps voting "I reject all the candidate in the fray" or some junky non-serious-but-sure-to-lose independents.
You are assuming that same caste & religious divide will be there for another 100 years to which I disagree, as our democracy matures , literacy improves and middle class expands we will see many changes over next 20 years. And these changes would be positive.
Regarding the Naxalite-->Agniwaste --> Congress connection
Those following the Red menace thread would remember 2-3 years ago when Andhra police/commandos surrounded a secret hideout of an all India meet-who is who of Naxals and maoists, orders came from Delhi to allow the 300 odd leaders to get away.
Anantha wrote:Regarding the Naxalite-->Agniwaste --> Congress connection
Those following the Red menace thread would remember 2-3 years ago when Andhra police/commandos surrounded a secret hideout of an all India meet-who is who of Naxals and maoists, orders came from Delhi to allow the 300 odd leaders to get away.
Philip wrote:Ugh! the pic of slimeball Kap Sib displaying the national flag upside down is unthinkable! Many years ago I was shown the original certificate of credentials that a new head of mission was to present to the Pres. of a certain country.The lettering was both in Hindi and in English.You know why? Aeons ago so the story goes,when Mrs.Pandit (I think) was appointed India's ambassador to the Soviet Union,on seeing the document,then written only in English,Stalin sarcastically was supposed to have asked if India had no official language of its own! The credentials were post haste suitably altered and only then did the great man receive our envoy.
While silly cases were filed against Sachin Tendulkar in misusing the flag, it is a grave offense by Government official holding such high office to pay such scant attention to Indian flag.
Agnivesh said, "These were lies and it is a cut and paste job. There are several people in my personal circle whose first name is Kapil. I never address political leaders as 'Maharaj'. Kapil Maharaj could be anyobody" he said without disclosing the identity of the person whom he was seen talking to on the video footage.
I was seeing his interview on star news ; he completely refused to disclose identity of Kapil he was talking to.
Also he is claiming his air tel mobile call record should be investigated
(How about throwing Agnivesh in front of crowd gathered at India Gate (25000+) with this video being aired over and over?)
Last edited by IndraD on 28 Aug 2011 19:49, edited 1 time in total.
Agnivesh's defense that the video is doctored don't hold ground. Here is a video of him attacking Anna and his team members on 26th August 2011.{May be that video of him talking to Sibal may be captured during that time and released today. The video seems very genuine. No need to suspect it as such.} http://ishare.rediff.com/video/news-and ... ts/4617106
It was a deliberate attempt to spread lies and make Anna and his team feel like a bunch of losers. That attempt also failed. But the truth finally came out in the version of another video that exposed Agnivesh completely.
I hope our politicos are watching the massive crowd at India gate and shivering in their dhoti.
Also on diff TV channels with interest I note that politicians from regional parties dependant on caste and religious divide are squirming most (like BSP)
