The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Dhiman »

Rahul M wrote:
Dhiman wrote:There should also be some sort of ban on candidates providing gifts and inducements to voters, i.e ending the practice of buying votes.
:lol: you think EC has been waiting for this bright idea to appear on BR before it can go ahead on this ?
Err, never said that Sir. Not sure why you got that idea :-)
as per current regulations, a candidate proven guilty of paying voters would be disqualified. it's not the law that is needed, it is better enforcement of the law.
Agreed and this is what I have been saying. So you think of my previous statement as a "enforcement" issue rather than a "law issue"
I understand you really do not know much about election code of conduct, but that is ok, no time like now. if anything this movement has raised political awareness among people.
I have never claimed any expertise over any topic on this forum :-) More than any expertise, it is opinions that I look forward to sharing back and forth here. But time for me to step back, since I got banned last two times you said that in direct response to my posts :-)
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Dilbu »

sanjeevpunj
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by sanjeevpunj »

^^^Tip of the real iceberg.....Titanic II waiting to happen.Very interesting article.
Last edited by sanjeevpunj on 29 Aug 2011 23:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by ramana »

NVS:

Winner and losers

Can we name the un-named ones?
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by SwamyG »

ramana wrote:NVS:

Winner and losers

Can we name the un-named ones?
Isn't the anti-Establishment paper the "The Indian Express"? The first time it was beaten was during the Bofors Scandal. It was Chitra Subramanian and "The Hindu" that scored a goal then.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by KLNMurthy »

Patni wrote:
Well! now wait for even more shrill, high pitched "See its all Hindoo/RSS Conspiracy", cries coming out from pseudo-secular crowd followed with demand for inquiry!
I can appreciate the devotional spirit of thanksgiving but it was poor judgment to conduct a hawan on government property while on duty. It is not psec to have common sense and be mindful of appearances if nothing else.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Jarita »

^^^ You've probably been out of India for a long time
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by IndraD »

ramana wrote:NVS:

Winner and losers

Can we name the un-named ones?
Thanx ramanna such a beautiful article
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by vijayk »

According to the letter rogatory from the Indian government to the government of Singapore on criminal case no. ECIR/MZO/02/2006-07 (the case involving Khan):

Deal for purchase of property i.e. Chateu Gutsch [sic] in Lucerne was finalized and during payment, USB [bank] informed that USD 300,000,000 the fund have arrived tagged with comment "Funds from Weapon Sales.
The note shows just how sure Khan and others involved were that they were protected from prosecution. And, until now, people like Khan had good reason to feel safe.

Among Khan's known associates were three Indian Chief Ministers and a top member of the ruling Congress Party. To protect themselves, they have to protect him, and the system he represents. And so, the case against Khan languished. Interrogations were cursory, files were sloppy, deadlines were missed.

But then, in an echo of what is happening all over India, someone said "enough is enough." In the case of Khan, it was the Supreme Court of India. In a remarkable order issued on July 4, 2011, the court explained why vast flows of illegal money are a national security concern:

the issue of unaccounted monies held by nationals, and other legal entities, in foreign banks, is of primordial importance to the welfare of the citizens. The quantum of such monies may be rough indicators of the weakness of the State, in terms of both crime prevention, and also of tax collection. Depending on the volume of such monies, and the number of incidents through which such monies are generated and secreted away, it may very well reveal the degree of 'softness of the State.' [...] If the State is soft to a large extent, especially in terms of the unholy nexus between the law makers, the law keepers, and the law breakers, the moral authority, and also the moral incentives, to exercise suitable control over the economy and the society would vanish. Large unaccounted monies are generally an indication of that.
The court instructed: "Follow the money." It ordered that the Khan case be taken out of the hands of existing (failing) investigative units, and be given to a special investigate team composed of top officials comprising, among others, two former Supreme Court Justices and the Director of the Research and Analysis Wing.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by vishvak »

A bit more on JLPBill:search on "abhishek manu singhvi lok pal time frame": "Can't give timeline on Lokpal Bill"

From another report
"Usually, such panels seek two to three extensions, which could mean a period of 9 to 12 months,"
According to Singhvi, the issues related to fixing time limit will be decided by the standing committee at its Sep 7 meeting.
Son of MP who coined ‘Lokpal’ heads panel looking into Bill

From Singhvi: Can’t give timeline on Lokpal Bill
But calling the proposition “implausible”, particularly when the parliamentary panel has received no fewer than four versions of the Bill, Dr Abhishek Manu Singhvi was of the view that no time limit could be accurately specified, except to say that the “reference to us is initially for three months”.
He said, “The committee can try its best to complete the job within three months, and there may be no need for any extension.”
A member of the panel observed, “It is very important that the Bill is discussed in the standing committee, and the views of people across the country are taken into account, before the Parliament takes up the legislative proposal for a discussion.”
We will finalise our report in shortest possible time: Abhishek Manu Singhvi
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by sanjeevpunj »

The power behind Anna.

Source:http://www.hindustantimes.com/Brahmacha ... 39406.aspx

Brahmacharya now a fad among young Anna supporters
Ever since Anna Hazare revealed that the practice of brahmacharya (celibacy) gave him strong will power, many youths want to try this technique. A member of parliament, during a discussion on Lokpal Bill in the Lok Sabha, had reportedly suggested doctors to conduct a research to know how the 74-year-old Gandhian managed without food for 12 days.
The comment had attracted Hazare’s attention.
The social activist had said that it was brahmacharya that made him so resilient.
Now, brahmacharya seems to be a fad among youngsters.

IMHO this is a wonderful thing happening in India.The real stuff. Brahmacharya is the key to such strong will power. Who wouldn't want to have this will power? Way to go.Swami Vivekananda must be smiling.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by vijayk »

The fake 2G Gandhi is coming more and more under scrutiny. Spread the gospel. The youngistan needs to know the truth because they are being brainwashed by Sagarika Ghosts, Scardeep Desais and Burkha Dutts.

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... n-the-game
varun Gandhi far ahead than Rahul in the game
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Sushupti »

"Kejriwal: Did not know VHP backed organizations were serving food at Ramlila. If we knew they were RSS fronts, would not have allowed them"

http://twitter.com/#!/rahulkanwal/statu ... 3551748096
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Jarita »

sanjeevpunj wrote:The power behind Anna.

Source:http://www.hindustantimes.com/Brahmacha ... 39406.aspx

Brahmacharya now a fad among young Anna supporters
Ever since Anna Hazare revealed that the practice of brahmacharya (celibacy) gave him strong will power, many youths want to try this technique. A member of parliament, during a discussion on Lokpal Bill in the Lok Sabha, had reportedly suggested doctors to conduct a research to know how the 74-year-old Gandhian managed without food for 12 days.
The comment had attracted Hazare’s attention.
The social activist had said that it was brahmacharya that made him so resilient.
Now, brahmacharya seems to be a fad among youngsters.

IMHO this is a wonderful thing happening in India.The real stuff. Brahmacharya is the key to such strong will power. Who wouldn't want to have this will power? Way to go.Swami Vivekananda must be smiling.

A lot of misunderstanding about Brahmacharya in india - ancient saptarishi practised and also had families
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Jarita »

Sushupti wrote:
"Kejriwal: Did not know VHP backed organizations were serving food at Ramlila. If we knew they were RSS fronts, would not have allowed them"

http://twitter.com/#!/rahulkanwal/statu ... 3551748096

Then the movement would have had only 10% of the audience. Kejriwal so full of C$%^
Last edited by Jarita on 30 Aug 2011 01:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by vijayk »

http://expressbuzz.com/opinion/columnis ... 08507.html
Anna stir – a balance sheet
The leaders of the IAC, particularly Baba Ramdev, had raised, besides corruption, the emotive issue of Indian black money abroad. But the IAC receded into the oblivion and the apolitical movement against corruption, got reduced to merely a fight for Jan Lok Pal (JLP) Bill. The Anna movement emerged, narrowed into just a battle for a just JLP Bill, marginalised other founders and reduced its leadership to just four, the ‘Team Anna’. See the effect of these changes.
This was how Jan Lok Pal Bill replaced black money and corruption as the core agenda of the IAC? In the Lok Sabha elections in 2009, thanks to L K Advani, the black money issue had become a huge issue; it remained dormant after the UPA victory. But after the Tsunami of corruption hit Indian politics, the public roar against black money stashed abroad by politicians, businessmen and criminals became stentorian.
The media alleged that Sonia Gandhi had huge monies stashed away abroad. It was then that the UPA II suddenly thought of a Lok Pal Bill to ride out of the tornado of corruption and black money. It was a trap. Soon IAC walked into the trap. It dismissed the government version of the Lok Pal Bill and insisted that the draft prepared by its think tank, the Jan Lok Pal Bill, should be accepted. The Congress party saw it as a blessing in disguise to make its Lok Pal Bill fight the Jan Lok Pal Bill, to keep corruption and black money out of headlines.
Meanwhile, the BJP committed a Himalayan blunder. L K Advani wrote a personal letter to Sonia Gandhi for the hurt caused to her. That was made public to make it appear that it was to regret the charges made in the BJP Task Force Report on black money that Sonia Gandhi family was keeping huge illegal funds abroad. The BJP’s move against black money became moot, leaving the issue to the apolitical Swami Ramdev, Anna being confined to JLP Bill.
The Congress, thrown on the back foot by corruption and black money issues, saw in JLP Bill an opportunity to obfuscate both. When Anna started his Jantar Mantar fast, Sonia Gandhi – charged with hoarding black wealth abroad – offered to partner him in his battle against corruption! The result, the Congress successfully divided the IAC agenda between Anna with JLP Bill issue and Baba Ramdev with black money and corruption issues.
The first fast of Anna was thus subsumed into this Sonia-led Congress strategy, leaving the BJP – thanks to its own follies – with no issues. The collateral benefit to the Congress was that Anna helped to depoliticise and rob the BJP of a highly political issue.
The Congress strategy also did more damage to the BJP. It helped to club all political parties, including both the ruling party and the opposition – read the Congress and the BJP – as one and the same.
Clubbing the BJP with the Congress on issues other than secularism helps the Congress and harms the BJP. Yet the elite leaders of the BJP allowed the Congress to succeed in its strategy. So after the first fast of Anna the Congress virtually dictated the agenda. Meanwhile Team Anna got Anna, who had first praised Narendra Modi, to talk against him so as to move the Anna movement further away from the BJP. This was the setting for the second Anna fast.
But the simple Anna proved increasingly difficult. He demanded a JLP Bill that included the PM down to everyone in the net. The Congress raised the plea that Anna could not dictate to the Parliament and got the BJP into the trap again. It got the constitutionalists in the BJP to endorse its view, again clubbing the BJP with itself!
But, the Congress strategy to handle Anna like it handled Swami Ramdev failed miserably with the media, which had no other headlines, focussing on Anna 24x7. With the media screaming ‘Anna’ and ‘Anna’ all the time, the Congress was on the run. Alas the BJP also found itself running with the Congress, against Anna. But, RSS workers enthused by Anna’s cry of “Vandemataram” and “Bharat Mata ki Jai” – both branded as RSS slogans – joined the movement in large numbers forcing the BJP president Nitin Gadkari to disregard the BJP Parliamentary Party and write to Anna offering support to his demands.
Here is the balance sheet of the Anna movement as of date. The BJP bracketed with the Congress loses; the Congress does not. The Congress cannot take Anna for granted; Anna cannot trust the Congress. The nation waits for what the Parliament will do about JLP Bill. The RSS is pleased that the two slogans “Bharat Mata Ki Jai” and “Vandemataram” long ostracised by Secular India have been secularised by Anna.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by RamaY »

Jarita ji

This Brahmacharya is an ashrama. That Brahmacharya (practiced by seers is a state of mind - detachment towards worldly duties) is a state of mind.

Both are important, but today's youth need first type of Brahmacharya immediately. The second one can wait.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by shravan »

vijayk wrote:The youngistan needs to know the truth because they are being brainwashed by Sagarika Ghosts, Scardeep Desais and Burkha Dutts.
nope.

MTV India Poll: Do you want Rahul Gandhi to be the next Prime Minister of India? Yes 29,000...No 2,43,000 http://www.j.mp/oca6F1
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Theo_Fidel »

shravan wrote:MTV India Poll: Do you want Rahul Gandhi to be the next Prime Minister of India? Yes 29,000...No 2,43,000 http://www.j.mp/oca6F1
The question is not whether the princeling is popular with the electorate. MMS for instance has no electoral base. The question is can the UPA win the next election or any of the ones after that. If it does princeling is PM, pretty much a guarantee. He is still in his 40's. UPA or some version would have to lose for 30 years and more to prevent the arrival of the princeling.

Corruption is important issue but is not sufficient to hold a coalition that can beat UPA consistently.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Nandu »

Theo, if he can't win elections, Congress will split again and enough such splits will mean the end of it as the biggest UPA party.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by vijayk »

Theo_Fidel wrote:
shravan wrote:MTV India Poll: Do you want Rahul Gandhi to be the next Prime Minister of India? Yes 29,000...No 2,43,000 http://www.j.mp/oca6F1
The question is not whether the princeling is popular with the electorate. MMS for instance has no electoral base. The question is can the UPA win the next election or any of the ones after that. If it does princeling is PM, pretty much a guarantee. He is still in his 40's. UPA or some version would have to lose for 30 years and more to prevent the arrival of the princeling.

Corruption is important issue but is not sufficient to hold a coalition that can beat UPA consistently.
Right on point. UP election is crucial. If BJP can use BR forces and Anna's awakening and score a major victory (if they can win send mulyam into oblivion) by staying second, that would set a stage for 2014. Can they do it?

If NDA can revive to demolish CON party for 2 consecutive elections, the DIEnasty may give up. The problem is they have too many cha-chas who will work for them if they are in power.

can BJP be a force to reckon in UP? They have to keep the focus on Swiss accounts, black money and pound the die nasty with the message. The days of fake prince as messaiah can't be so easily sold on CON dark media for another 6 months or so.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by a_kumar »

Can't find Varun's speech! Does anybody have a link?
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by joshvajohn »

Pattukottai was known writer of Tamil Cinema Songs in 60s. Those days he wrote against corruptions and stealing of public and private money. Such ethical teachings are missing todays' cinematic messages. In many modern films bribe and corruption are glorified and are at least shown as the reality which no one can get rid. I think some of our cinematic messages should emphasise about the possibilities of being non-corrupt and glorify people like Anna and create a mind of not being corrupt. Unless all sections (including social institutions such as media and films) work towards an awareness and education and fight against corruption India's growth will slowed down by the political and institutional corruptions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glLj7EjReGY
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by paramu »

That is because Indian movie world has been hijacked.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by SwamyG »

Nandu wrote:Theo, if he can't win elections, Congress will split again and enough such splits will mean the end of it as the biggest UPA party.
Quite possible. Any leader or think tank will gather people:
1. Who share the leader's vision - selfless and non-selfless
2. Stand to gain something from being around the leader:
a. Knowledge/experience.
b. Money.
c. Power.
3. Loyal people who because of #1 and #2 reasons have transcended beyond those two factors. In this group one could also include people who are trapped or blackmailed in supporting the leader.

A leader is only as powerful as the immediate people around him. They all lead and rule by proxies. If RG shows no promise or does not offer opportunities, people from category #2 will start dropping out. Since he does not have any great vision, I doubt if anyone has been with him for reason #1. He will have some from #2 and #3.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Pranav »

Ajatshatru wrote:Was reading the article 'winners and losers'....how about conducting a BR poll as to who is the most slimy/despised pol******* (two choices: please read the article 'winners and losers' to know the two choices).... Hint: no.1, The 'too clever by half' ('dhai sayana') who each time after saying something slimy follows it up with the most irritating laughter (which makes majority of Indians BP goes up) or no.2, a ruthless, power hungry person who, among other things, taking 'vote-bank politics' to an all time high coined a new term 'saffron......'.

Note: Would remove the post if any Mod. objects to it.
No need to focus on the Chhaprasis. These characters would not be where they are unless they were supported by Sonia, who herself may not have been where she is if we had transparent and verifiable voting.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Hari Seldon »

Pranav,

Heard rumor that SC is hearing a case on the voting system & may mandate a verifiable paper trail. That true? What're the juicy details of the case? Pls elaborate...
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Pranav »

Hari Seldon wrote:Pranav,

Heard rumor that SC is hearing a case on the voting system & may mandate a verifiable paper trail. That true? What're the juicy details of the case? Pls elaborate...
Latest update is here: http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 8#p1155848
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by sumishi »

As expected, the first tirade against the Internet, along with the majority "communalism"

TOIlet: Colours of violence by Diggy
The internet technology has gathered momentum and now made the virtual world, at times, more powerful and overpowering than the real one. Obviously, politicians in India so far used to the cut and thrust and real-world politics in India also can't ignore the opinion-manipulating possibilities of the tools of virtual media.

An empowered middle class enjoying the fruits of economic liberalisation has become extremely politically conscious which i feel is quite a healthy sign. But this new-found political articulation is sometimes ill tempered and in several cases extremely partisan and crosses the limits of decent public discourse.

I say this from personal experience. As i have lately been on the receiving end of the abusive hate mail whenever i have expressed my forthright views on right-wing terror. :D

In such situations, the articulate middle class has its right to dissent against the views of politicians, but should be tolerant enough to listen to the views that they may not agree to without being abusive.

I have always felt fanatic religious or ethnic fundamentalism is the root cause of global terror.

Irrespective of the religion they may profess, the perpetrators of this ideology of fanatic fundamentalism breed hatred and appropriate a self-righteous authority to impose their beliefs on others and then unleash violence against the non-believers. History is full of such examples.

India is a country of tolerance. This is because India has the cultural and spiritual depth that has allowed different religions and ideologies to coexist and over the centuries get assimilated to create a blend that is the essence of the Indian ethos.

We can't allow the idea of "Vasudhaiv Kutumbakam" so closely identified with our history and our culture to be snatched away by these rabid fanatic fundamentalists whether they are Muslims or Hindus.

I have faced the ire equally of both rabid fanatic Hindus and Muslims when i went to Azamgarh and when i went to Barak Valley in Assam. They are the faces of the same coin. They feed on each other in a mutually sustainable way.

Sometimes i see that within minutes of my statement - even in some remote corner of the country - against right-wing terror, there is a flood of abusive comments against me.
:lol:

I have doubts on their authenticity. Are they sponsored? Have the perpetrators of hate and terror been able to organise themselves through cells/groups that run these 'virtual campaigns' through assumed identities to browbeat anyone into silence who dares to expose their acts of violence?

The fact that the comments are one-sided, and quite often have no other voice makes me feel confident that this is true. Anyway, i am not one of those who would be cowed down by these faceless proponents of communalism and hatred.

But i would urge upon all those who believe in universal brotherhood, who believe in liberal modern secular India, to react with the same zeal against these communal fascists who through wireless technology have been creating an impression that they represent the majority view in this country.

To me communalism is as dangerous as corruption. {Right, so lets shift focus} We don't have to look too far as we have in our neighborhood the example of almost a failed state of Pakistan which adopted the path of religious fundamentalism under President Zia-ul Haq.

Let us get together and not allow the fascist communal fanatics to capture the mind and thoughts of the people of this great country through the use of the 'virtual world'.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Image

From 'The Hindustan Times'.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Pranav »

Sanku wrote:
Pranav wrote: I am happy to evaluate all data points ... A good general rule is that the side that wants to shut down free discussion is the side that is either rigidly programmed or has skeletons to hide.
True; however no doubt a lot of noise does enter through that route too....

anyway OT..
True ... for every Galileo there might be 99 kooks (including some deliberately planted kooks). Most people will have neither the inclination nor the capacity to separate the wheat from the chaff. It's easier to live in the mainstream.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by sanjeevpunj »

Team Hazare insists on quota, phone tap powers.
NEW DELHI: Contrary to the expectations of their supporters among the political class, the Anna Hazare campaign has decided not to drop their insistence that the proposed Lokpal be armed with powers to tap phones.
While the BJP has argued with Hazare's representatives against tapping powers for the Lokpal, the pitch has failed to wash with the activists. "We think that an independent bench of the Lokpal will be better placed to take a decision on phone tapping. We will definitely not consider excluding this section," said Prashant Bhushan.
Speaking in the Rajya Sabha on Saturday, leader of opposition Arun Jaitley had argued against equipping the Lokpal with the authority to place tabs on phones.
Section 29(12) the Jan Lokpal Bill says, "The appropriate bench of the Lokpal shall be deemed to be the designated authority under section 5 of the Indian Telegraph Act empowered to approve interception and monitoring of messages or data or voice transmitted through telephones, internet or any other medium as covered under the Indian Telegraph Act read with Information and Technology Act 2000 and as per rules and regulations made under the Indian Telegraph Act 1885."

The dispute over tapping powers for Lokpal apart, the activists also seem to be heading for a confrontation with sections of the political class over the latter's demand for quota for SC/STs, minorities, OBCs and women in the Lokpal panel. Team Anna is unlikely to support the demand for quota for SC/ST, minorities and women in the Lokpal panel despite a strong demand from dalit leaders and representatives of regional parties. The quota call found a strong expression on Monday when P L Punia, chairman of the National Commission for Scheduled Castes, demanded quota for dalits, tribals, minorities, OBCs as well as women in the search and selection committees for Lokpal as well as the final panel they constitute. Sources in the Hazare group ruled out any re-think on the issue of introducing quotas in the panel, although they said there would be reservations in recruitment for the investigating agency that will be created under the Lokpal. "There can be no possibility of quota within the Lokpal panel but recruitment for officials in the investigation wing could be done on the lines of government recruitment," the source said.
Source:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 790842.cms

As for phonetapping, it needs to be debated.As for Quota, here is what I feel.
IMO instead of worrying about quotas, the methodology for recruiting personnel for serving the Lokpal institution should be to organise national level competitive exams, to qualify for the ILS (Indian Lokpal Service). At the outset, this is a service like IPS,IAS or IFS, and not a free for all job providing opportunity, so the rush for quota is meaningless.Tough written exams, after basic literary qualifications (at least a a Degree level) should be incorporated into the infrastructure of recruitment for serving the Lokpal.
Last edited by sanjeevpunj on 30 Aug 2011 09:10, edited 4 times in total.
rahulm
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by rahulm »

From Winners and Losers article.
If the MPs had their way, they would shut down the independent media, legitimize dynasties, elect a new people, and tyrannize over them forever.
The bolded has already happened. People are already tyrannised because of corruption. The big media houses have already been bought.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by R_Kumar »

sumishi wrote:As expected, the first tirade against the Internet, along with the majority "communalism"

TOIlet: Colours of violence by Diggy
How is this relevant on Aug 30, 2011 when everyone is talking about something else.
Was he sleeping for past 2 weeks? He is really disgusting.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Prem »

Dont know where to put this one.
( Yeh naya gadha aaya hai shahar mei)
http://communities.washingtontimes.com/ ... religions/
August 28, 2011–The world should watch India carefully: What is happening here is relevant to every society. It is the spectacle of a people long held in bondage because of their own failings by their elected criminal politicians, realizing at last that a corrupt way of life is untenable.What ignited the turmoil in the subcontinent and the Arab world? Is it religion, or is something else causing the convulsions? Established religion is restrainMIDDLE EAST, INDIAing change rather than revitalizing these countries. It is technology-driven awareness of their wretched conditions and the yearning for a better life that is driving these revolutions.In 2008 a sceptical world watched the U.S. elections, wondering, would Americans really elect a Black President? In India the question is, can a nation of 1.2 billion people change its corrupt social order?India’s anti-corruption activists have succeeded in forcing the government to agree to their demands, but the odds are against the kind of change Indians seek: The country's rot is too deep. People are disinclined to let go of their corrupt ways on their own. They hope that legislation will magically end corruption for them.
Looking around our world today, it seems that few nations can distinguish between right and wrong. This is especially true in countries like India, which is ranked among the most corrupt countries in the world.The cultural heritage of a country may be impressive but it is worthless without a genuine moral foundation. Corruption, intolerance, cruelty and fanaticism have eaten into the vitals of Indian culture and the highest levels of government.In 1981 a popular music group, The Police, sang: Poets, priests and politicians, have words to thank for their positions, words that scream for your submission.A spiritual contest to win people's hearts and minds rages as never before. All the major religions are in the fray, but there are also potent contenders from the media and entertainment world. Better informed today, people are moving away from traditions to options. Individualism and diversity increasingly mark people’s lives, new values that have virtually eliminated the old ones.

People are influenced and empowered by access to improved health, education, travel, technology, and market economies. They constantly assess their career prospects, bank balances, etc.They rarely examine their core beliefs. Most dislike discussing matters of faith, clinging to the odd notion that they are a personal matter whose traditions must be retained at any cost.I spent three decades in ignorance, confusion and pain before I realized the impotence of my inherited beliefs and abandoned institutional religion. I'd spent years kissing the backsides of clueless, often unprincipled clergy, calling them “Father,” thinking they had control over my relationship with God.
Christianity has added a suffix to the one name in history that needs no embellishment. Its rules, rituals and traditions divert millions from Christ. Like me, they don't recognize or understand the work of the Saviour and take decades to find that understanding.
Perhaps where politics and religion have bungled, genuine faith might make a difference? Religion plays a crucial role in people's lives, but if instead of creedal tribalism we cultivated genuine spiritual values, could conflicts be mitigated or overcome?
When Benjamin Franklin stood before America’s Constitutional Convention more than 200 years ago, he declared, referring to Jesus in Matthew 10:29-31, “I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth - that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?"Is this the test the of a religion's effectiveness? In India, a pluralistic country in great ferment, the experiment might be worth trying.India’s track record as an ethical society is dismal, but if Indians forsook their duplicity and genuinely turned around as the Ninevites did in Jonah 1-4, what would happen? If the country cannot find a way to stem individual rot, there is no hope for a social revolution. Any gains would be lost.Exploiting people with religion is an unscrupulous business. But what if India allows every religious establishment that seeks to win people’s hearts to stay if only it prove its commitment and worth by helping Indians to be better?After all, of what use is a belief system if it cannot transform people?Why not challenge all the major religions to come up with strategies to alter people’s lives and lead them to authentic faith, whatever that maybe?Let each major religious group furnish the people of India with a blueprint for change, outlining a specific time-limited program for achieving its claims. The objective is not merely to allow them to win converts, but to produce better citizens.Five years should be time enough to demand from them results.During that period the government should ensure peace and harmony in the country so that no group tries to intimidate the other. Every organization should be given complete freedom to operate and freely spread its message.The media should motivate the entire country to encourage the groups and spur them on.After the deadline, a panel of carefully chosen, impartial experts from academia, media, business, politics, etc., should review the results and declare who has made the most impact in improving the lot of Indians. They should measure not just the number of conve
India is already home to the great religions, but it is mere religiosity that governs life there. There are unnecessary conflicts and official policy restraints. If the government is cooperative, the experiment could be implemented by the various organizations on their own initiative.All religions compete in the battle for hearts and minds, but why does authentic, life changing faith elude most people?
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by sanjeevpunj »

India is already home to the great religions, but it is mere religiosity that governs life there. There are unnecessary conflicts and official policy restraints. If the government is cooperative, the experiment could be implemented by the various organizations on their own initiative.All religions compete in the battle for hearts and minds, but why does authentic, life changing faith elude most people?
^^^ People in general do not practice what they preach, so the authentic,life changing faith eludes them.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Pranav »

Cong red-faced as MP brands Anna a traitor - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 792456.cms
Much to the Congress' embarrassment, a CD is circulating in the state's political circles, which shows Anna Hazare being called a 'traitor' and 'anti-national' in a Mahila Congress programme on Independence Day.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by rahulm »

Some gems
The cultural heritage of a country may be impressive but it is worthless without a genuine moral foundation
and
what use is a belief system if it cannot transform people?
The 2 places in India where I have personally seen honesty pretty much across the board (most people up to good) are Thiruvanammali and Shani Shingnapur (Maharashtra). In both places it's because of religion and peoples fear of divine retribution if they behave dishonestly.

Based on the 2 examples above, it would seem religion has transformed these 2 places to self sustaining moral values.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Singha »

as you know the INC + media has consistently used the sikular stick to beat and tar anyone remotely opposing them like NaMo or Ramdev.

so I think tactically its a good strategy by Team Anna to 'distance' themselves from 'saffron outfits' and not present much attack surface for the INC and its kept dogs in media to shape opinion on that issue. lots of people form their opinions from reading the daily rags and thats it. as it is, the BJP is mired in its own internal corruption and lack of leadership and not in a position to offer much help if at all.

keep the focus on dynast corruption and dig up all the dirt, if subramanium swamy has anything he should release to the media rather than trying to strike any closed door deals.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by sanjeevpunj »

rahulm wrote:Some gems
The cultural heritage of a country may be impressive but it is worthless without a genuine moral foundation
and
what use is a belief system if it cannot transform people?
The 2 places in India where I have personally seen honesty pretty much across the board (most people up to good) are Thiruvanammali and Shani Shingnapur (Maharashtra). In both places it's because of religion and peoples fear of divine retribution if they behave dishonestly.

Based on the 2 examples above, it would seem religion has transformed these 2 places to self sustaining moral values.
Interestingly, I spent 15 days in Tiruvannamalai, meditating. It is a powerful Shiv Shakti Kshetra, inbued with spiritual energy, and most of the residents are very sincere, helpful and devoted.
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