Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 26 Aug 2011 20:33

they are made at Ural India's Haldia plant (West Bengal). usually comes with a 170 hp turbo-diesel.

arun · Post by **arun** » 26 Aug 2011 22:15

D Roy wrote:using the ural chassis was a very good decision. The MPVi is essentially the Cassipir Mk-6, although the idea for using the ural has come from India. They are using the 4320 chassis.
Ural India is based in Bengal and servicing would be very easy for MPVi units deployed in Jharkhand, Orissa and Chattisgarh.
Besides the Indian Army has been using Ural trucks for over three decades now. In fact it buys some 1000 vehicles every year.

D Roy wrote:they are made at Ural India's Haldia plant (West Bengal). usually comes with a 170 hp turbo-diesel.

Strictly going by visuals, I was under the impression that the Mahindra DLSI MPVi was based on the Ural India U637 model which incidentally is reported as having a 380 HP engine:

Clicky

arun · Post by **arun** » 26 Aug 2011 22:25

There is a nice pic of the MPVi in this article:

Zig Wheels

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 26 Aug 2011 22:55

Apan Unit leke galti kare che. I meant 170 kW not HP. So its 230 HP.

Strictly going by visuals, I was under the impression that the Mahindra DLSI MPVi was based on the Ural India U637 model which incidentally is reported as having a 380 HP engine:

No, this is pretty much based on the Ural 4320 given that it has its engine and transmission.

YAMZ 236 HE2 Maximum power (DIN) 169 kW@ 2,100 rpm

YAMC-236U - transmission.

Drishyaman · Post by **Drishyaman** » 27 Aug 2011 00:08

D Roy ji,
Defense Land Systems seems to be a JV between Mahindra & Mahindra Ltd. and BAE Systems.
Do they ( Mahindra ) have any link with Ural India ?

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 27 Aug 2011 00:18

Well Ural India is clearly a supplier for Mahindra DLSi. And now it is also a supplier to OMC ( BAE systems) in South Africa.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 27 Aug 2011 09:09

Are the vehicles listed on the URAL site actually made in India, and are they used by the IA ?

Would appreciate some images of the vehicles in IA colours.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 27 Aug 2011 09:18

Some old news URLS

Ural bets big on Indian Army

Ural India to start assembling unit for trucks soon — 2nd auto unit in 64 years at Uttarpara

Still no Images of the vehicles in IA service though.

Drishyaman · Post by **Drishyaman** » 27 Aug 2011 13:20

D Roy wrote:Well Ural India is clearly a supplier for Mahindra DLSi. And now it is also a supplier to OMC ( BAE systems) in South Africa.

Yes, you are right !!
http://www.mahindra.com/News/Press-Releases/1314268974

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 27 Aug 2011 13:32

Still no Images of the vehicles in IA service though.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... ces/page24

There are actually quite a few in IA service. And yes the Haldia unit ( West Bengal, India) does crank out quite a few units every year.
Note: I sometimes find myself answering the same question again and again. I would request fellow members to just turn overleaf sometimes.

Some old news: http://news.oneindia.in/2007/01/17/ural ... 42729.html

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 27 Aug 2011 15:06

D Roy wrote:
Still no Images of the vehicles in IA service though.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... ces/page24

There are actually quite a few in IA service. And yes the Haldia unit ( West Bengal, India) does crank out quite a few units every year.
Note: I sometimes find myself answering the same question again and again. I would request fellow members to just turn overleaf sometimes.

Some old news: http://news.oneindia.in/2007/01/17/ural ... 42729.html

Thanks, was aware of these vehicles. As a matter of fact, had seen 2 on Mathura road, Faridabad, few days ago but in IAF colours, (The same model truck is also the pechora reload vehicle used by the IAF) they were quite old and recall seeing these types of vehicles during a trip to vashno devi as well in the late 80s. IIRC, they were called 3 tons,

I was looking for the photos of new build vehicles.

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 27 Aug 2011 16:01

As a matter of fact, had seen 2 on Mathura road, Faridabad, few days ago but in IAF colours,

Those might actually have been Zil trucks.

Did they look like this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/swapnali/9 ... /lightbox/
then Zil-131.

or it could have been the Zil 157.

http://trumpeter.cool.ne.jp/gallary3/AY ... 57k-03.jpg

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Aug 2011 16:04

Any reason why they wouldn't use modern Tatra chasis over say Ural ones ?

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 27 Aug 2011 16:19

Austin,

the Pechora is a legacy system as you would know and doesn't make sense to move to Tatra when it comes with that peculiar 5P 73 rail launcher/ PR-14 A transporter cum loader configuration. So the old Zils are fine.

The mobile launcher for the Pechora ( as opposed to the rail launcher system) is quite a bit different and turning a Tatra into that means investment that doesn't make sense anymore.

Pratyush,

the pics in the 'military photos' link I posted are not that of Ural 4320s. I think they are KRAZ 255.

so I guess your earlier contention of Ural photos in IA service not being easily available remains valid even for older units.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Aug 2011 20:50

DRoy I mean the new MPV why is it not based on Tatra Chasis ?

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 27 Aug 2011 21:01

See, this whole thing is a pvt to pvt thingy. It was conceived by Mahindra DLSI from the ground up without IA involvement. So without the IA specifying Tatra why would they turn to BEML anyway? And this was developed for the foreign market as well where OMC will be selling it as the Cassipir Mk-6 ( which is a little different in the interior).

In India also, DLSI is intially looking at the police and paramilitary market.

So the idea came from the pvt sector, and they kept it a pvt-pvt thingy engaging the only suitable pvt player who had happened to set up shop in India. Incidentally, the Ural 4320's engine and transmission is also part of rather good Russian MPV design.

Plus subsequently even from the IA angle, as I have said earlier over a thousand Urals are bought by the Army every year, so maintenance, if the Army happens to procure this wouldn't be an issue.

In fact some guys would say - Waah ab Cassipir Ural chassis pe aa raha hai. Badhiyaan.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 27 Aug 2011 21:09

DR,

Thanks for the Images again, but these vehicles were different. They were identical to the this tipper with a flat bed and a crane going over the drivers cabin.

I say that they were IAF as they had the roundel and were quite old.

I think that I have turned this into a truck discussion.

But which ever way you look at it, this truck forms an excellent base for the desi PLS. With a payload of 23500 KGS.

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 27 Aug 2011 21:14

Yeah, well I guess these are IAF vehicles unconnected to the Pechora system. they are probably used for civil works around IAF bases.

You said Mathura road, right? I wonder if they came from Hindon.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Aug 2011 21:20

DRoy Thanks for your response , it makes sense now.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 27 Aug 2011 21:24

D Roy wrote:Yeah, well I guess these are IAF vehicles unconnected to the Pechora system. they are probably used for civil works around IAF bases.

You said Mathura road, right? I wonder if they came from Hindon.

They could also have been from the IAF station at Tuglaqabad as well. But it is OT.

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 27 Aug 2011 21:31

desi PLS. With a payload of 23500 KGS.

You know something, the way things are headed in the U.S Army's procurement system, I won't be surprised if Oshkosh itself turns up to sell a 'desi' version.

Although I agree that 8x8 Ural seems pretty capable.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 28 Aug 2011 03:59

self deleted

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 28 Aug 2011 04:11

This needs to go in FAQ as plain BULL$hit

else it gets posted again and again

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 28 Aug 2011 05:19

Whaddya think?

On facebook too

Old stuff.

It shows the arjun firing lahat.

2006

However, significant among Arjun’s
firepower is its ability to fire the
LAHAT (Laser-Homing Anti-Tank)
missile.

Really old if one were to ......................

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 29 Aug 2011 18:32

MBT Arjun Mark-II to cost approximately Rs 37 crore

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 29 Aug 2011 18:42

Now I guess people will realize why the FICV contract is going to be worth 12.5 billion for just 2610 vehicles.

inflation is a big issue in the defense industry and the FICV that is being planned is cutting edge.

by the time it rolls out in 2018-19, I won't be surprised if it costs more or less what that figure indicates.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 29 Aug 2011 20:57

OK. So, how many Arjuns on order?

Intial 124 for 43rd and 75th Armored and 124 of Mk-II? 248 in all so far?

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 29 Aug 2011 21:08

chackojoseph wrote:MBT Arjun Mark-II to cost approximately Rs 37 crore

Can't make a judgement without knowing what the 37-crore figure includes - development costs, or lifecycle costs and/or the weaponry cost. Hope there is more clarity soon.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 29 Aug 2011 21:13

rohit, 43rd and 75th are in same RAPID ?

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 29 Aug 2011 23:17

248 firm orders - 124 mk -I , 124 mk-2. Mk-1 deliveries almost complete.

248 more mk-2s planned.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 29 Aug 2011 23:25

Rahul M wrote:rohit, 43rd and 75th are in same RAPID ?

Not that I know of. At last call, 43rd->24 RAPID and 75th->12 RAPID. But this is based on pics of Arjun with formation sign of 24 RAPID and these are a bit dated. You never know about these things unless something appears in public.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 30 Aug 2011 04:24

So 124 Mark I and now again ordered 124 Mark II. 2 more 124's of Mark II planned right? total will be 496. Good run. But better start planning for more as T55 and others like earlier version of t72's which are not upgreaded may have to be retired soon. If not already due.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 30 Aug 2011 07:30

If someone can find my old post (I tried). I had estimated the possible blue print of numbers and approximate geographic deployments.

Avik · Post by **Avik** » 30 Aug 2011 14:20

rohitvats wrote:
Rahul M wrote:rohit, 43rd and 75th are in same RAPID ?
Not that I know of. At last call, 43rd->24 RAPID and 75th->12 RAPID. But this is based on pics of Arjun with formation sign of 24 RAPID and these are a bit dated. You never know about these things unless something appears in public.

Rohit: The first batch of Arjun MK-IIs may be destined for 7 Div which I'm hearing is about to be rapidized next? Would be interesting if that were the case, wouldnt it? A string of RAPIDS from South Rajasthan to South Punjab, with the Armd Divs lurking behind the screen!

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 30 Aug 2011 14:22

^^^Where did you hear that about 7 ID? Chaiwalas/panwalas/their cousins? hain ji?

Having said that, expect Arjuns to be deployed south of Punjab in formations from Fazilka-Abohar to Gujarat (as may be pertinent)

Avik · Post by **Avik** » 30 Aug 2011 14:37

rohitvats wrote:^^^Where did you hear that about 7 ID? Chaiwalas/panwalas/their cousins? hain ji?

Having said that, expect Arjuns to be deployed south of Punjab in formations from Fazilka-Abohar to Gujarat (as may be pertinent)

Yup..masala-chaiwala. 7 Div is expected to follow 4 Div.

I am also intrigued by X Corps; it has more than an armd. div's worth of tanks within itself. This is the real pivot corps.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 30 Aug 2011 14:56

thanks rohit, if arjuns go to the RAPID's armd bde's, is it reasonable to assume the second armd rgt of the bde will also be equipped with arjun ?

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 30 Aug 2011 15:27

Avik wrote:
rohitvats wrote:^^^Where did you hear that about 7 ID? Chaiwalas/panwalas/their cousins? hain ji?

Having said that, expect Arjuns to be deployed south of Punjab in formations from Fazilka-Abohar to Gujarat (as may be pertinent)

Yup..masala-chaiwala. 7 Div is expected to follow 4 Div.

I am also intrigued by X Corps; it has more than an armd. div's worth of tanks within itself. This is the real pivot corps.

That 7 ID is going to next RAPID seems to be a belief held by many paanwalas....

Yup, X Corps has important role to play...always features as 'Strike' formation in analysis originating from pakistan.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 30 Aug 2011 15:33

Rahul M wrote:thanks rohit, if arjuns go to the RAPID's armd bde's, is it reasonable to assume the second armd rgt of the bde will also be equipped with arjun ?

That is obvious choice. South of Punjab, there are 6 formations which can do with Arjuns. Expect the armored brigades of Rapids to go the Arjun way in first wave. If we have planned induction for 6 Regiments (128 MK-2 ordered+248 MK-2 planned), then all three RAPIDS on western border can go the Arjun way plus one (I) Armored bde (less one regiment).

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 31 Aug 2011 01:42

rohitvats wrote:Yup, X Corps has important role to play...always features as 'Strike' formation in analysis originating from pakistan.

X Corps is rich in Armour, has Two RAPIDs and straddles the border with Pakiland, of late Xth Corps and Ist Corps have been playing together and all these would lend credence to the fact that this might be a Strike formation. At best it could be a Pivot Corps. With the advent of IBGs, these elements could become IBGs.

IA's Strike Corps have far more teeth than Xth Corps (Armoured, Mechanized and Arty divs), but why dispel paki notions which put fear into them?