The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 30 Aug 2011 10:31

Lokpal to sound death knell for CBI, CVC?
TNN | Aug 30, 2011, 03.47AM IST
NEW DELHI: With Lokpal looming large over the horizon, the Central Bureau of Investigation and the Central Vigilance Commission may be in the final days of their existence as two of India's premier, independent anti-corruption agencies.

Top brass of both CBI and CVC are combing through various versions of the Lokpal Bill, existing statutes, constitutional provisions and official recommendations over the years to figure out where they would stand once the overarching anti-corruption ombudsman comes into being. Thanks to Anna Hazare, the two agencies are threatened with a future where they definitely won't exist as we have known them for years.

Both CVC Pradeep Kumar and CBI chief A P Singh are slated to appear before the parliamentary standing committee on law and justice on September 7 to explain their position, recommendations and assessments on Lokpal.

Source:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 790566.cms

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 30 Aug 2011 11:01

Anther scam that went unnoticed

MCD's ghost sweeper a techie, held

More than two years after the Municipal Corporation of Delhi was jolted by a scam - in which Rs 500 crore was paid to around 23,000 ghost employees on its rolls

The accused, Vinay Kumar, is a software engineer who was registered as a sweeper with MCD.

I cant see how 500 crore can be embezzled with only a person registered as a sweeper involved and all top beaucrats, CM and Top Cabinet guys being innocent. Somthing realy fishy here.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 30 Aug 2011 11:14

^^^According the the article, the number of such ghost employees is closer to 44000, though MCD denies that they have any such ghost employees.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 30 Aug 2011 11:17

sanjeevpunj wrote:^^^According the the article, the number of such ghost employees is closer to 44000, though MCD denies that they have any such ghost employees.

Then why is there a case?

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 30 Aug 2011 11:30

Really fishy!Wonder who else gains by supressing this case. Entire MCD is involved.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 30 Aug 2011 12:25

Kiran Bedi refuses to apologise for remarks against MPs - India Today

It seems Parliament (read UPA) will be damned in either way. Public contempt aganist politicians will be increased if Kiran Bedi goes to jail. If Parliament drops charges and lets Kiran Bedi free, then also Parliament will loose moral authority.

rajithn · Post by **rajithn** » 30 Aug 2011 13:04

rahulm wrote:The 2 places in India where I have personally seen honesty pretty much across the board (most people up to good) are Thiruvanammali and Shani Shingnapur (Maharashtra). In both places it's because of religion and peoples fear of divine retribution if they behave dishonestly.

Based on the 2 examples above, it would seem religion has transformed these 2 places to self sustaining moral values.

I would disagree about Shani Shingnapur though. The toll booths leading into the town where devotees are fleeced. Mind you, these are still state roads and not a PPP/BOT project. The stores where they rent out the dhotis, the 300 rupees oil (250ml) and the 2000 rupees basket of stuff they peddle! That is not what I would call honesty!

Almost all places of worship in India is sorrounded by an extreme commercial aura - right from the stores out front to the temple itself. Shirdi, Tirupati, Mangad..you name it!

If people genuinely fear divine retribution, should this fear not apply to all peoples and at all places of worship?

Exceptions I have experienced are Tiruvannamalai, Udupi, Guruvayoor.

Anyways, OT

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 30 Aug 2011 14:31

That Mad vainglorious gandhian, Anna , now wants to go to the North East of India! WTF?

“Hazare has made up his mind to visit northeast soon after recuperating and getting back to work,” said Assam-based RTI activist and Team Anna member Akhil Gogoi here on Monday. “His mission includes rallies against big hydropower projects threatening the existence of people in the Northeast and a trip to (Manipur capital) Imphal to lend support to the cause of Irom Sharmila Chanu.” Hazare’s tour plan, Gogoi added, was drawn up during a recent core committee meeting of Team Anna.

http://www.morungexpress.com/frontpage/70058.html

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 30 Aug 2011 16:20

In fact we need people like him to go to NE so that these states may be brought in main stream. What is dangerous is taking up issues of NGOs which are not in the interest of the nation and opposing power project is one such reason.

The whole movement has given enormous clout to NGOs. And they must be brought under perview of Lokayukta.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 796176.cms

Row over Lokayukta appointment in Gujarat-We are going to meet the President on September 1 or 2 when she returns to the capital. All norms were ignored by the governor like consultation with the chief minister before the appointment or taking the advice of his Cabinet on the issue. The Lokayukta was appointed by the governor bypassing all established norms," Advani told reporters.

The MPs shouted slogans against the governor demanding her recall. Some of them held placards saying, "Dual policy on Gujarat will not be tolerated", "Recall Gujarat governor", "murder of democracy" and "Rajyapal Bhawan has become Congress Bhawan (governor's House has become Congress Bhawan).

Shocking controversial CD in circulation about team Anna--In the CD, Bhushan is allegedly telling Mulayam Singh and Amar Singh that his lawyer-son Prashant can "manage a judge".
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 797341.cms

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 792456.cms

Congress red faced as MPs brand Anna a traitor

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 30 Aug 2011 18:10

Source:http://www.hindustantimes.com/One-day-m ... 39660.aspx

One day, my fight will also be recognised: Irom Sharmila.
Irom Sharmila, on a hunger strike for the past 11 years, on Tuesday said a day would come when her fight against rights violations by security forces would be acknowledged by New Delhi like the way parliament had recognised Anna Hazare's campaign against corruption. "The central government recognised Anna Hazare as a true Indian citizen and hence accepted his demands. I am sure one day the government would recognise me and my fight against rights violations," Sharmila told journalists outside a local court where she was being presented for a routine hearing.
"I would like to urge Anna to visit Manipur and see for himself what is happening here," Sharmila said as she was shoved inside a police van from the court premises.Dubbed as the Iron Lady of Manipur, Sharmila began her fast on November 2, 2000, after witnessing the killing of 10 people by the army at a bus stop near her home.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 30 Aug 2011 18:48

Haryana court issues arrest warrant against Swami Agnivesh for his Amarnath Yatra comments

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/arre ... 49530.html

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 30 Aug 2011 18:49

On a different note, the Anna Hazare movement has put Shiela Dixit's involvement in CWG scandal out of the radar. Before it all started, the BJP was baying for her blood but don't see any mention of it in the mainstream media. Has BJP forgotten or did I miss something?

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 30 Aug 2011 19:11

sanjeevpunj wrote:Source:http://www.hindustantimes.com/One-day-m ... 39660.aspx
One day, my fight will also be recognised: Irom Sharmila.
Irom Sharmila, on a hunger strike for the past 11 years, on Tuesday said a day would come when her fight against rights violations by security forces would be acknowledged by New Delhi like the way parliament had recognised Anna Hazare's campaign against corruption. "The central government recognised Anna Hazare as a true Indian citizen and hence accepted his demands. I am sure one day the government would recognise me and my fight against rights violations," Sharmila told journalists outside a local court where she was being presented for a routine hearing.
"I would like to urge Anna to visit Manipur and see for himself what is happening here," Sharmila said as she was shoved inside a police van from the court premises.Dubbed as the Iron Lady of Manipur, Sharmila began her fast on November 2, 2000, after witnessing the killing of 10 people by the army at a bus stop near her home.

IMHO, the Manipuris are being victimized by various militant groups and also some belligerent Nagas. The Baptist Church in Nagaland has played a dubious role. It would be good to work towards making life easier for the Manipuris.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 30 Aug 2011 19:17

Some people were saying that corruption has nothing to do with lack of human development. This article about a caretaker at Freedom Park in Bangalore shows otherwise:

Corruption stir venue's keeper could not pay bribe, lost infant brother

An eerie silence has fallen upon Freedom Park after 13 days of hectic, but peaceful, agitation that culminated in euphoric celebrations when social activist Gandhian and anti-corruption crusader Anna Hazare finally gave up his fast on Sunday.

Also, silence is something that has become synonymous with seven families who stay at Freedom Park, looking after its upkeep.

But despite being so closely linked with the venue that hosted the anti-corruption crusade’s Bangalore chapter, none among them got an opportunity to voice what they feel about being victimised by corruption.

Twenty-eight-year-old Parvathi Mallikarjun, a native of Gulbarga and one among the families there, sits in front of her little house made of hollow bricks as her coolie husband Mallikharjuna and other family members who are employed at Freedom Park are away at work. Ask about corruption, and she grimaces. While most people not willing to pay bribes either do not get their jobs done or are forced to face delays, Parvathi’s is a case that ended in bereavement and grief.

She talks about the day— around 20 years ago—which remains the most painful day in her life. Her 20-day-old younger brother, who was suffering from high fever, could not be admitted to Ambareshur Hospital in Gulbarga as the hospital authorities insisted on her parents paying `50,000 in cash up front as bribe.

After pleading with the doctors and nurses, her helpless parents, unable to raise that much money, returned home with their sick newborn who died later that day.

Parvathi remains silent when asked what her infant brother’s name was, because he was not even named when he died.
“I lost a brother because the hospital authorities asked for a bribe and we could not pay it,” she says, her voice breaking and tears welling up in her eyes.

On being asked if she has ever paid a bribe, she firmly says: “No. Why should we? Rich people can afford to pay bribes. We find it hard to even eat two meals a day or send my children to school. Why should we give our hard-earned money to someone else?”

Her six-year-old daughter Saraswathi could not be admitted to any school “because it’s too costly here. We will admit her to a school in Gulbarga when we get back.”

‘I see hope’
Regardless of the incalculable loss she has suffered, when you ask her about the anti-corruption protest that happened at Freedom Park, her eyes light up with hope: “Buddhi baruthe (They will use their brains now)… We are happy that they fought for us. What they did will bring rewards for everyone, for the entire country.”

She has a heartfelt desire that the Jan Lokpal Bill becomes a law, because then “people will know whom to complain to and what to do if someone asks for a bribe. The rules will make sure that the corrupt people are punished.”

http://www.dnaindia.com/bangalore/repor ... er_1581715

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 30 Aug 2011 19:28

Pranav wrote: IMHO, the Manipuris are being victimized by various militant groups and also some belligerent Nagas. The Baptist Church in Nagaland has played a dubious role. It would be good to work towards making life easier for the Manipuris.

Yes, Pranav ji, I agree wholeheartedly.And to the above post,its got my eyes watering.Indeed the movement has touched all souls.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 30 Aug 2011 19:43

Published on Aug 30, 2011
By Dinesh Sharma
India finds a new route on the fast track: Asia Times

On the back of two decades of economic liberalization and its dizzying pace of change, middle-class Indians feel free and unshackled, but disoriented, off-center and intoxicated by the speed with which the world is changing around them.

Hazare now stands as a stalwart figure at the intersection of pre-liberalization India, stretching back to the independence movement, and the newly emergent global India still on the horizon.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 30 Aug 2011 20:08

menon s wrote:That Mad vainglorious gandhian, Anna , now wants to go to the North East of India! WTF?
“Hazare has made up his mind to visit northeast soon after recuperating and getting back to work,” said Assam-based RTI activist and Team Anna member Akhil Gogoi here on Monday. “His mission includes rallies against big hydropower projects threatening the existence of people in the Northeast and a trip to (Manipur capital) Imphal to lend support to the cause of Irom Sharmila Chanu.” Hazare’s tour plan, Gogoi added, was drawn up during a recent core committee meeting of Team Anna.
http://www.morungexpress.com/frontpage/70058.html

The agenda of Anna group seems to have expanded. Definitely, they are trying to prove that they are secular. But they are picking up nationalistic causes to prove their case rather than going Sonia/Dogvijay way of appeasement.

The question is if this is simply a reaction to the criticism leveled against them by CON media and CON NGOs/civil society. Or do they have bigger agenda and slowly planning things as they see how the people are responding?

I have a feeling that there is some effort to build a left of the center coalition in the very long term to replace CON party by using apolitical forces and picking right causes with nationalistic objectives. Any one dare to speculate? Rudradev?

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 30 Aug 2011 20:13

^^^ This has gone too far. Rallying against electricity generation , asfpa etc.. Why is he picking anti-national issues ?

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 30 Aug 2011 20:30

sanjeevpunj wrote:Source:http://www.hindustantimes.com/One-day-m ... 39660.aspx
One day, my fight will also be recognised: Irom Sharmila.
Irom Sharmila, on a hunger strike for the past 11 years, on Tuesday said a day would come when her fight against rights violations by security forces would be acknowledged by New Delhi like the way parliament had recognised Anna Hazare's campaign against corruption. "The central government recognised Anna Hazare as a true Indian citizen and hence accepted his demands. I am sure one day the government would recognise me and my fight against rights violations," Sharmila told journalists outside a local court where she was being presented for a routine hearing.
"I would like to urge Anna to visit Manipur and see for himself what is happening here," Sharmila said as she was shoved inside a police van from the court premises.Dubbed as the Iron Lady of Manipur, Sharmila began her fast on November 2, 2000, after witnessing the killing of 10 people by the army at a bus stop near her home.

When did paramilitary forces (Assam rifles) that are under Home ministry became part of the Indian Army?
Should HT can be taken to court and punished for spreading misinformation?
Regarding AFSPA, there is a need to ensure that the terrorism in the region is completely eliminated. And the Army allowed to do what it's supposed to do. That's its primary role of war fighting. Even the paramilitary forces if possible need to be removed and moved out to regions where there is trouble. Let the Manipur police force handle the terrorists if any that crop up. They need to be trained properly to deal with all kinds of situation.
Also another important aspect is to allow people's participation against terrorist activities. The Indian Army do have very very high goodwill among the people of this region. So the Army can initiate certain programs like savannahs in the region to train teachers and show them how to provide good quality teaching along with conducting medical camps etc. Like setup a system to ensure betterment of the people in this region. Army can make the initiative which can be carried forward with people's help by the state govt. Then when the people feel comfortable, the forces can be removed from anti-terrorist activities with the responsibility handed over to a responsible and efficient police force. This can be done. Why I'm telling this is because the people of this region are very good people and they are not made ones. That's why you dont see much of hatred from this region towards security forces. They are not bound by fanatical ideologies. So we must be able to give good governance and good security to the people of this region. But its also necessary to ensure that the respective forces do their respective duties.
Also all the terrorists residing in Bangladesh need to be arrested or eliminated and a majority of Bangladeshi Muslims in India who is causing issues in India need to be identified and send back at the earliest after punishment (like hefty fine or more economical ones).
Short term scenario:
The question that the media is going to ask the Army chief is "Whether you'll support the removal of AFSPA?"etc
so the Army chiefs opinion can be like
Yes surely we'll like to see our forces being relieved of anti-terror operations and that role being taken over the respective police force. The Army's primary responsibility is to defend the nation against external aggression. So we would like to go back to doing our primary job of preparing for war. The more we are tied with doing our secondary role is causing a lot of issues from training point of view etc. So surely we would like to see terrorism in the region eliminated and then the police force taking over our role as well and then dealing with any terror related issues that may arise. The police force will be able to handle the situation after proper training.
What's your opinion about Sharmila's fast?
We sympathize with her. But at the moment nothing can be done with regard to AFSPA. It's very much necessary to ensure the removal of terrorism from the region and for the Army to function properly. So as long as there is terrorism and terrorists we do have a job to do. But we'll like to see terrorism and terrorists eliminated from this region, so that army can go to do our primary job of war fighting and our role being taken over by the police force.
What you'll have to see about human rights violation?
I would like to tell you that, the Indian army has the highest respect for human rights. And not only that we always ensure that the rights of citizens are held supreme, even when the terrorists try to suppress this rights, we are always there with the people. We also urge the people's support in combating terrorism so that peace can return to the nation. {Also it can be added that, whenever any of our men are found of any human rights violation and become a blot on the army's values, we have ensured that the person is punished.} But I must also remind you that most of the times propaganda is launched against us and our operations. Even when the killed person is a hard core terrorists, it's blamed on the Army as human rights violation, Whereas it's a clear case of a terrorist being killed and we protecting the rights of the ordinary people of this country. So the media must also be wary of propaganda being launched against us.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 30 Aug 2011 20:42

^^^ Uddu ji, I have the same feelings that you have expressed so I did not comment on that article beforehand but wanted a genuine reaction.Thanks for pointing out things in the right perspective.I believe if AFSPA is taken off things could get much worse than they are, and at the moment, it appears the heat will be turned on towards the AFSPA issue as Anna ji himself plans to visit Manipur and meet Irom Sharmila.
It might become a logistic nightmare for the manipur govt, if he sits on fast again, this time with Irom Sharmila sitting on one side. He is indeed moving forward the Gandhian way, and we have to see a lot more that will be coming soon.

About Irom's fast,I was upset when they force-fed her and broke her fast.This was not just an ugly job of interfering with the right to protest, it was a forceful way not expected by anyone from the government.They have been messing with her rights, that is for sure. They could have allowed her fast to go on, and sent forward delegations to come to a solution instead of simply dismissing her protest by force-feeding her.

sum · Post by **sum** » 30 Aug 2011 20:46

Madame Suzzane with her latest round of verbal BS:

rss-ngos-media-ran-hazare-movement
Not bothering to quote anything. Brave souls can read what she barfs directly from the link.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 30 Aug 2011 20:52

^^^ Another URL carrying news about Arundhati Roy's reaction to Anna's movement http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 412518.ece

“I am skeptical about the legislation (Jan Lokpal Bill) itself for a good number of reasons. I think the legislation is a dangerous piece of work,”

Real BS.She is just using her image as a writer to speak against the Jan Lok Pal Bill, whereas the entire nation is discussing it seriously. She is a spent force.She is really not worth reading, I have stopped noticing what she pouts now, and I feel the youth have lost interest in her long ago.I feel she is a fading star and will soon turn into a brown dwarf and cool off, as the luminaries are in action ever since Anna Ji took the stage on 16th August.

Later on in the article she criticises the TV media, because they didnt show her sleazy pics!

:

“If it was only for TRP then why not to settle for ***** (read the article or make a guess what the stars stand for) or something which gives more TRP?” she asked.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 30 Aug 2011 20:52

gakakkad wrote:^^^ This has gone too far. Rallying against electricity generation , asfpa etc.. Why is he picking anti-national issues ?

Rallying for environment and people's suffering is not anti-national. It is leftist cause but not anti-national.

Aligning with terrorists, foreign forces and acting in their interest is anti-national (e.g. Dhoti Roy, Harsh Mander).

Speaking against minority discrimination is not anti-national but supporting terrorists is anti-national (Dhoti Roy, Dogvijay, Sonia, Harsh Mander etc).

Speaking against religious violence is not anti-national using it to divide people is.

IMO, this group is leftist in their thoughts but not anti-national.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 30 Aug 2011 21:53

Long live Anna ji! He is modelling himself on MKG's line - so he will be under similar compulsions and similar lack of statemanship as he goes along further. MKG at least had one well-defined enemy who also happened to be a foreign devil - the best devil possible to lead a mass movement against. [Yes I know that he acted quite friendly to this enemy at crucial points - but even then he had this "enemy" devil after all!] But who is the "devil" Annaji can safely keep in the basket forever to pull up issues and grievances against? It is after all not a foreign one!

What is his outline definition of nationhood? MKG had that bit quite clear - even if it evolved tactically over time, and something his faithful courtiers promptly abandoned once they could latch on to power - dropping him essentially into political waste bin. But when Anna ji takes up issues without thinking of whose interests those issues serve in being dissed - he does not show himself as a statesman. We all dance up and about against "fundamentalism" of the saffron kind, of the Christian kind etc. But that rigid commitment to micro - in the name of achieving something concrete and tangible for the aam aadmi - in such a way that the macro is no where in sight - rings alarm bells of a different and more dangerous "fundamentalism". It reminds me of MKG, who in pursuit of ever-more refined definition of civilization - and a very personal, dictatorial sense of what social as well as general "justice" or unbiasedness means - managed to put millions into slaughter, rape and trauma in the long run.

The failure to see the long term consequences, what the nation should mean clearly - leads to a fuzziness about values and a tendency to do equal-eqals between issues/faiths/ideologies/objectives that are not equal.

Is he looking into whether the issues on which he is achieving success are also issues that serve various foreign and global financial flow interests? The western big-biz have been clamouring about "Indian corruption" for some years - almost in a campaign blitz. If he also gets success in stopping hydel plant in the strategically important Assam valley area or withdrawal of defence put up obstacles in the path of terror in NE or far north - he should stop and think. What are the issues he and his team are forced to quietly drop in bargaining, which issues seem to be taken up by new networking technologies wildly, and which are not! Does it get echoes in special interest group lobbying inside and outside the country - or not!

He should remember MKG - a lone man to the end. MKG -around him a bunch of courtiers interested in their own subregional supremacy, and personal power - who just gladly suffer him as the fool who should be listened to with utmost sincerity of facial expression, but to be promptly ignored as soon as gone out of the door. And he sits over partitions of his nation he himself never envisaged to start with.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 30 Aug 2011 21:54

Well, she has just spell t out Loud and Clear along with Swami Agnivesh where her political interests lie. Its part of psy-ops to keep Indians ever ashamed of themselves and hence never becoming assertive.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 30 Aug 2011 22:07

vijayk wrote:
gakakkad wrote:^^^ This has gone too far. Rallying against electricity generation , asfpa etc.. Why is he picking anti-national issues ?
Rallying for environment and people's suffering is not anti-national. It is leftist cause but not anti-national.
IMO, this group is leftist in their thoughts but not anti-national.

Who gave environmental protection and fighting against people's sufferings to the left on a platter?
The rishis, the Sanyasis, Buddha, Ashoka, etc were leftists? Or they were Hindus and Buddhists? Left leaders will claim that the Buddha and Sanyasis were the first left. But actually it's better to say the left if claiming the heritage of these people, then they are actually Hindus and Buddhists in areas of environmental protection. And what's this people's sufferings has to do with left ideology? The more the suffering, the more better for the left. They will not do a thing to eliminate this problems of suffering. They want to make people suffer and subjugate the people under their ideology by blaming others for all their faults including the fault of their ideology.
So don't call Anna left. He is Indian.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 30 Aug 2011 22:09

The left is being isolated gradually and systematically by the new movement started by Anna ji, and the types of Arundhati and similar ones do not like it one bit. Their frustration shows.High time we walked the straight path, no left no right just onwards, just like an Indian should.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 30 Aug 2011 22:12

sanjeevpunj wrote:About Irom's fast,I was upset when they force-fed her and broke her fast.This was not just an ugly job of interfering with the right to protest, it was a forceful way not expected by anyone from the government.They have been messing with her rights, that is for sure. They could have allowed her fast to go on, and sent forward delegations to come to a solution instead of simply dismissing her protest by force-feeding her.

Sanjeevji, I don't think there is a choice for the govt. Because here is a person who is fasting. Can the govt agree to her view? No it's not possible. The AFSPA need to be there, as long as there is terrorism and as long as the armed forces are tackling terror threats. So the only way left is either let her die or force feed her. Atleast they are doing it to ensure that the person is alive. In that sense, it's a good thing. The govt is concerned about her, but cannot do anything to accept her view, because it's unimplementable at the moment. Talks and all are all good. But it's also responsibility on the fasting person to provide a solution that can be implemented. Fasting unnecessarily will not sort out the problem of terrorism. If she can provide any solution to the problem and how it can be tackled, that will also be a welcome step.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 30 Aug 2011 22:15

Pulling off big hydel projects from areas starved of electricity but having hydel potential, may be good for the environment. True, very true. But then again it is an issue of priorities. Does hydel-opposition really consider the balance of forces in social and economic interest groupings that want to consume electricity and those who don't?

It again comes back to the very old Gandhian issue and khujlis about the nature of the economy. Hence the issue will come back to what is the concept of the nation and its future framework in the mind of Annaji and his "team" - which most likely differs between him and his "team".

If he has not read the general demand for industrialization and cheap production of consumption - properly as an increasing demand - he will converge to MKG's final days rather quickly.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 30 Aug 2011 22:17

Right, Uddu ji, at that time the govt. did not have any solution. The only way i see is they must discuss it out with Irom, explain the necessity of the Act, and try to address her greivances more pro-actively,and arrive at a sensible agreement acceptable to both.Perhaps now,Anna Ji might actually mediate and sort this out, and convince Irom to stop making a demand that jeopardises security concerns, I feel.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 30 Aug 2011 22:23

sanjeevpunj wrote:The left is being isolated gradually and systematically by the new movement started by Anna ji, and the types of Arundhati and similar ones do not like it one bit. Their frustration shows.High time we walked the straight path, no left no right just onwards.

You know what, Most of the people here in BR says Arundhati types are the left, But i do feel she belongs to something else. Something that's not the left. Or May be something that's not actually left in any manner. If we assume Communists parties in India as left, then surely she did not belong to that category. There is something else with these people. Either they are hardcore left and against the democratic left. Why I say is because their views are very hardcore and their ways are very brutal. They are mad with ideology and are not ready to listen or accept reality. They will not indulge in sane discussions, debates etc. When they get defeated, they will start to lie, take shelter in propaganda. Their ideological leanings are so high that they will not accept simple solutions even there exists and will always want something different which will be bloodshed, destruction, death and then claim to be the suppressed. Something really wrong with these people. And above all, they can lie, they can disguise as so and so. Agnivesh can be another example of these category of people. If this is Maoism, and these people are Maoists, they are a threat to all Indians including the democratic left who can participate in democratic process, sane debates discussions (yes offcourse with many distortions).

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 30 Aug 2011 22:25

sanjeevpunj wrote:Right, Uddu ji, at that time the govt. did not have any solution. The only way i see is they must discuss it out with Irom, explain the necessity of the Act, and try to address her greivances more pro-actively,and arrive at a sensible agreement acceptable to both.Perhaps now,Anna Ji might actually mediate and sort this out, and convince Irom to stop making a demand that jeopardises security concerns, I feel.

I agree with your view. THat's a good idea. If Anna can have a good discussion with her, tell her the situation, make her understand the problem from the administration side and then a final solution is agreed upon by the administration like well trained police force to take over the responsibilities of the Army and paramilitary forces and then finally removing the AFSPA over a period of time (the time taken to train and deploy properly trained police force even to take on terrorists), then it's possible to have a happy ending to this problem.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 30 Aug 2011 22:40

uddu wrote:
sanjeevpunj wrote:The left is being isolated gradually and systematically by the new movement started by Anna ji, and the types of Arundhati and similar ones do not like it one bit. Their frustration shows.High time we walked the straight path, no left no right just onwards.
You know what, Most of the people here in BR says Arundhati types are the left, But i do feel she belongs to something else. Something that's not the left. Or May be something that's not actually left in any manner. If we assume Communists parties in India as left, then surely she did not belong to that category. There is something else with these people. Either they are hardcore left and against the democratic left. Why I say is because their views are very hardcore and their ways are very brutal. They are mad with ideology and are not ready to listen or accept reality. They will not indulge in sane discussions, debates etc. When they get defeated, they will start to lie, take shelter in propaganda. Their ideological leanings are so high that they will not accept simple solutions even there exists and will always want something different which will be bloodshed, destruction, death and then claim to be the suppressed. Something really wrong with these people. And above all, they can lie, they can disguise as so and so. Agnivesh can be another example of these category of people. If this is Maoism, and these people are Maoists, they are a threat to all Indians including the democratic left who can participate in democratic process, sane debates discussions (yes offcourse with many distortions).

Might need some digging to see who is masterminding these extreme leftist types. I will spend some time in research and see what i can find.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 30 Aug 2011 23:19

sanjeevpunj wrote: Might need some digging to see who is masterminding these extreme leftist types. I will spend some time in research and see what i can find.

No need to dig - it is quite clear that Suzy is the darling of western elites.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 30 Aug 2011 23:21

Look, who all didn’t like the Anna fast: Imam Bukhari and Shiv Sena, Rahul, Lalu and Arundhati - http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... -arundhati

While I do realize that the Lokpal agitation has had its limitations and deficiencies, this rewind of all those who have slammed it leaves one with the sense that if they all think this needs to be stopped – well, somewhere, fundamentally, this man is doing something right.

The biggest validation of the Anna campaign is, ironically enough, the gallery of those whom it made uncomfortable.

Add to that list Aruna Roy & the NAC gang ... who are the other major figures that have been left out?

Added later: Kancha Illaiah, John Dayal. There was a Dalit anti-Anna march that turned out to be full of paid protestors.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 30 Aug 2011 23:34

brihaspati wrote:Pulling off big hydel projects from areas starved of electricity but having hydel potential, may be good for the environment. True, very true. But then again it is an issue of priorities. Does hydel-opposition really consider the balance of forces in social and economic interest groupings that want to consume electricity and those who don't?

Let's wait and see, I don't think he has spoken against dams per se. The western Maharashtra area he comes from has quite a few dams supplying water to agriculture and industry.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 31 Aug 2011 00:03

I hope he doesn't go the Medha Patkar route of knowing what he is against but not having an agenda of what he is for.

This is the problem with Anti-corruption movements as a whole. They are reactionary movements that find it hard to translate into actual programs fro people. The AH group needs to have a progressive agenda of progress for the nation. I keep coming back to Siddhi where progress of the people there ended corruption. This should be 90% of their program with anti-corruption tacked on. Otherwise UPA controlling the nations moneybags (read dole) will make mince meat of them at the voting booth.

We need a better society than one that ends corruption on fear of god.

WRT to Hydel power this is the mistake Patkar types make. They go for a maximalist 'stop the dam' program. Instead of helping people rehab and putting pressure on government of improve compensation and long term prosperity. There is nothing wrong in putting pressure on government to improve rehab. Trying to stop Hydel Dams without a large energy solution is silly. In effect turning off the lights.

paramu · Post by **paramu** » 31 Aug 2011 00:46

menon s wrote:That Mad vainglorious gandhian, Anna , now wants to go to the North East of India! WTF?

What is your problem about him going to North East of India?

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 31 Aug 2011 01:34

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... ce/839210/

Delhi police is understood to have concluded that the controversial CD purportedly having Team Anna member Shanti Bhushan's conversations with political leaders Mulayam Singh Yadav and Amar Singh is genuine and not fake as alleged.
Sources said investigators are filing a closure report soon after following a probe into complaint filed by Bhushan that the CD was fabricated. A case under section 469 of Indian Penal Code (forgery for the purpose of harming reputation) was registered in mid-April.

This is most likely BS (Delhi Police fixing Bhushans for Sonia clan)...

But in spite of all these direct dirty game played by the DIE-nasty crooks and their chamchas, these people don't want to call them out. When it is Rahul or Sonia, every no one, be it Arvind Kajriwal or Kiran Bedi, they never speak out against them. The DIE-nasty and the DARK media have set up a stage where any one opposed to them is a right wing yindoo communal terrorist supporting Hitler Modi.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 31 Aug 2011 01:51

menon s wrote:That Mad vainglorious gandhian, Anna , now wants to go to the North East of India! WTF?
...
http://www.morungexpress.com/frontpage/70058.html

I wouldn't trust this report. Better to wait and get things straight from the Anna camp than from morungexpress.com which seems to be a church-backed Naga site. Other more important things were mentioned as next steps, electoral reforms being the big one which will need all of their resources.