Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 2011

[menon s]

A brief look into how, a Chinese national, named Wang Zunyu, who converted to Islam, divorced his wife and married a local girl in Gilgit, and started getting mining rights in that region. His company Mohsin Industries Ltd, has gathered vast mining rights in the region. In a recent press conference in Skardu he is alleged to have threatened the locals too saying that , “Stand by me if you want Gilgit-Baltistan to be like Islamabad, if not, then make it BALOCHISTAN”. ? The bloke has since divorced his local wife Ms.Ayesha from Domial.

The Association considers Mr. Wang Zunyu (aka Mohsin) as a Security Risk and has “already exposed his illegal and suspicious activities since 2008 including illegal mining, processing and transportation of Molybdenum Metal as well as heavy black metal having considerable contents of Uranium in addition to harassment of Chinese business concerns desirous to make investment in Gilgit Baltistan”.

Seems like molybdenum and Uranium that bring in reasonable ROI are reason enough for Chinese to exterminate an entire population.
http://www.dardistantimes.com/content/% ... altistan32

The issuance of the mining license, secretly, to Mohsin Industries by Mehdi Shah on the directives of President Zardari, ICRIS CSC Companies Registry of the government of Hong Kong records show that BAO Billion Mining group (Mohsin Industries) has been incorporated in Hong Kong, only a year ago, on July 6th, 2010 with CR No 1476648. Few months later, Mohsin Industries applied for a license to dig out Gilgit-Baltistan and the company was given an authority from someone in Islamabad to plunder the region. More than 200 local companies were bypassed, the GBLA was ignored and many others were left to protest.

Stop the looters, be it Mohsin Industires, Metallurgical Corporation of China, Surpass Mining, Maverick Gold or somebody else. Put a lid on the fifth-column mushrooms that grow overnight to feed the ectoparasites. We appreciate the Wang Zunyu has converted to Islam but that does not entitles him to blast Gilgit-Baltistan.

Now we know why? Zardari goes about china visits every month!
http://www.dardistantimes.com/content/k ... omment-105

And Below are the list of projects in the pipieline, funded By Chinese in this region.

1.China specific industrial and economic zone in Gilgit and along the Karakoram Highway
2.Development of mineral and precious stone excavation projects
3.Sadpara Dam and Land Development Project
4.Minawar Land Development Project
5.Bunji Dam (7000 MW)
6.Yulbu Dam (3000 MW)
7.Diamer Dam (4500 MW)
8.Naltar power project
9.Shagarthang power project
10.Construction of Gilgit-Skardo Highway
11.Concrete bridges over Indus River
12.Pratab bridge
13.Several tunnels in Hunza district
14.Chinese consulate in Gilgit city
15.Sost dry port
16.Chinese banks opening branches in Gilgit-Baltistan
17.Cross-border cable and fiber optic network
18.Chinese telecom companies ZTE, Zong and Huawei managing telecom sector of Gilgit-Baltistan
19.Railway project
20.Karakoram Expressway
21.Oil and gas pipelines


These projects will remain in supervision of more than ten thousand Chinese workers belonging to the construction corps of PLA. China has also stationed a unit of PLA soldiers near the Khunjerab Pass, which may assist their workers and provide security in case Pakistani security apparatus fails.

http://www.gilgitbaltistan.us/Facts-abo ... istan.html

[SSridhar]

Now we know why? Zardari goes about china visits every month!

And Below are the list of projects in the pipieline, funded By Chinese in this region.
http://www.gilgitbaltistan.us/Facts-abo ... istan.html

Menon, these projects are fine for a country that needs to grow economically; but, Pakistan is not interested in all that. China certainly is and these projects will be beneficial to PRC and also help to station PLA in POK threatening India. A double benefit for them. I would imagine that Pakistan was interested in something else and PRC obliged and TSP conceded space in POK in a quid-pro-quo. Pakistan was interested in TNWs, Pu extraction technology for Chashma-3 & 4, MBRLs, J-20 and a strategic space-based asset which PRC has transferred. PRC may even transfer some Han-class SSNs. Just wait and watch. These are the discussions that Zardari was having with the Chinese. For Pakistan, destroying India subsumes everything else.

[gakakkad]

what kind of mineral wealth does gilgit-baltistan have ? Because the Chinese seem a little too interested. I heard molybdenum or other rare earth elements.

[sanjeevpunj]

LeT engaged in commando training inside Pak- FBI
Source:http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 845908.cms

LeT is engaged in imparting commando training to its recruits, including teenagers, at its terror camps inside Pakistan, besides being involved in their religious indoctrination, according to an FBI complaint. In the complaint submitted before a federal US court in Virginia yesterday, the FBI said this is reflected in the communication of Jubair Ahmad, a Pakistani national on legal permanent residency in the US who was arrested on charges of providing material support to Lashkar-e-Taiba.

[menon s]

Mineral deposits in Gilgit Baltistan.
http://www.wwfpak.org/gcic/pdf/Reports/ ... 140709.pdf

[Singha]

all those power plants are likely intended to supply sinkiang province's industrialization plans ie pipe it up to kashgar and beyond.
this arid region could likely benefit from POK hydro projects than transport coal from far away and setup more thermal plants.

the chinis very well know the pakis do not pay for power and WAPDA uses army units to collect due bills. so they will likely take all the power north.

the goods manufactured in newly industrializing western china will then be sold back to the pakis via land route for a tidy profit - the paki market is a lot closer than the gold coast which is 6000km to the east.

in exchange the local infra in POK will be much improved, some benefits will accrue from trading and most importantly as a close chini satellite the pakis will gain a new cloak of protection.

[saadhak]

Switch to the NewsX channel if you would like to have a good laugh on MSA.
Or if you'd like to see the India Bakistan equal equal onlee on Terrorism and everything else you can think of.
Alternatively, link here:
http://metroslive.com/pathways-to-peace-2/

26/11 == Samjhauta Express

Some gems from MSA:
India should accomodate Pakistan on terrorism, kashmir, etc.
We should accomodate their concerns since we should take into account the history

MS Aiyar defending Bakistan sharing experiences to prove that recalcitrant elements opposing peace do not exist only in Bakistan, but also in India. As an example, he cites an objection raised by the India Army on a Siachen agreement. Apparantly Geelani was invited for a photo-op which was sabotaged by the "recalcitrant" Indian Army

Another WKK:
Kashmir kya Hindustan de denge, Hina Rabbani tere liye jaan de denge. That is the love we have for Pakistan.

Just when you think you've heard all you had to...When will we hit rock bottom

[SSridhar]

I just watched (programme is still continuing, but I had no more stomach) an atrocious programme involving MNAs from Pakistan and from India and presented to an Indian audience in probably Mumbai. Most of the audience were dhimmis and could not understand the moral equivalence that Mani Shankar Iyer (a panelist) and the two MNAs from TSP were drawing between the omissions and commissions of India and TSP. The moderator (Jehangir Poncha from NewsX) said let us put aside discussing Kashmir and terrorism and thereby implicitly drew the equivalence once again without realizing it was Pakistani brazenness and perfidy on both these counts that lie at the root of all problems between these two countries. Implicitly, it means that so long as Kashmir problem exists terrorism was understandable without realizing that J&K is an Indian state under occupation by Pakistan which has also sold a part of our land to a third country for some consideration. Punch dialogues drew applause when such utterances were foolish and meaningless. The Pakistani ambassador used the 'opportunity' to blame India for not sharing intelligence with Pakistan. Javed Akhtar was the only sensible person among the lot (apart from Yeshwant Sinha, a panelist). Even the wife of Sashi Tharoor, a Kashmiri, was seen clapping at some of the atrocious statements being said without possibly realizing the import of them. Such is our dhimmitude and sense of history and understanding. Appalling to say the very least.
PS: It causes concern when Indian society is infused with such enthusiasm towards a neighbour who has inflicted such untold miseries on us for 65 years now and we have such incidents as above, IIT-B, Aman-ki-Asha and the like. Where are we going ? I have never felt so miserable.

[saadhak]

Punch dialogues drew applause when such utterances were foolish and meaningless. The Pakistani ambassador used the 'opportunity' to blame India for not sharing intelligence with Pakistan. Javed Akhtar was the only sensible person among the lot (apart from Yeshwant Sinha, a panelist). Even the wife of Sashi Tharoor, a Kashmiri, was seen clapping at some of the atrocious statements being said without possibly realizing the import of them. Such is our dhimmitude and sense of history and understanding. Appalling to say the very least.
PS: It causes concern when Indian society is infused with such enthusiasm towards a neighbour who has inflicted such untold miseries on us for 65 years now and we have such incidents as above, IIT-B, Aman-ki-Asha and the like. Where are we going ? I have never felt so miserable.

The anchor Jahangir was crying about the prejudice that Indian Muslims face, the pain of being a Muslim in India. He says he has experienced it first hand since his first name is Muslim sounding.
No Paki ever lets go of an inch of their hardline and 'its all India's fault and India needs to take steps to accomodate us' position. Nor do they slobber over how much love they have received when in India.
They have much more to criticise themselves, but don't do - at least in front of Indians.
Indians on the other hand open the floodgates of self loathing when they find Pakistanis in the audience.

On the Indian Army saving the day on Siachen and Sir Creek,
Yashwant Sinha asked the question why the IA were not consulted prior to reaching an agreement? Good point.

Also, from:
http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/ex ... 29713.html

The cable exposes Narayanan as readily conceding that he had differences with Prime Minister Singh.

The former NSA has described Dr Singh as a "great believer" in talks and negotiations with Islamabad, while Narayanan himself was "not a great believer in Pakistan".

He added that after the Prime Minister spoke in speeches of India's "shared destiny" with Pakistan, he told the PM "you have a shared destiny, we don't".

Confirms the worst fear that MMS was running the Pakistan policy disregarding advise from the NSA without taking the IA in confidence.

[Hari Seldon]

And so history repeats.

Gains on the battlefield were washed away at the negotiating table by Iron lady IG to a grovelling ZA Bhutto's taqiya tactics.

MMS is trying very hard indeed to give up, give in, give away whatever has been earned by precious blood, sweat and tears of this country's aam aadmi.

And once again we jingoes have to fallback to hoping Packee overconfidence, chootzpah and tactical brilliance will come into play just as they sense they're getting the upper hand....hopefully that part of history'll repeat too...

[gakakkad]

It was idiotic not to take over POK in 71 . That region is a huge mine of minerals. Besides it is very thinly populated , so there was no problem even if the local population created trouble . It ll be very difficult with the Chinese around. Covert op's is the only way out of the mess.

[Nandu]

^^^ SSridhar, this may cheer you up. Tharoor himself is aware of the futility of such meets, and expresses it quite clearly. In fact, he might be writing about the very program you watched.

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/columnis ... dy-manners

[negi]

The dhimmitude and chootiy@p@ at display does not come as a surprise to me for right from the moment child goes to school until he reaches adult hood there is no history textbook in school which covers the post independence Indo-Pak wars and events. I won't be surprised if the one's pursuing B.A in History too don't have it in their syllabus. Whatever the mango man in India knows about the Indo-Pak relations is via the media and we know the kind of slant latter has on this issue.

The problem is most of the Indians are sentimental fools they do not trust their own countrymen with truth and hence go over the top with political correctness and hiding the bitter parts of history ; it's not a surprise that we see so many clamoring for peace from a country which has been attacked numerous times by another which is significantly smaller in size and military might than itself.

The reason for all this pussy footed policy making and pappi-jhappi is pseudo-secularism; the reality is the self proclaimed secular front of India is the one which does not trusts the Muslims in India and that is why they have to view every topic/issue via the 'religious prism' this is the reason why facts have been twisted to show the Mughal rule in good light in our books and obviously since Indo-Pak wars are very recent events and facts difficult to fudge; these have been conveniently omitted from the school curricula.

[Hari Seldon]

^^^ OT perhaps but for a long time I thought so too. Turns out Nixon bhaiya explicitly warned us against attacking West Pak. Threatened N-sizzles too. Which is partly why IG was forced to resort to 1974's peaceful BUddha.

Sure, we stood upto Nixon's and Kissassinger's shenanigans in the Bay of Bengal (USS Eisenhower and all that) but based on intell inputs and Soviet camp's assessments as well, IG decided to stand down on the west Pak issue. Sala we even returned the Haji Pir to the gutless wretches. That still rankles...

[Tamang]

Interesting times ahead

The grave allegations continue to trickle in as Zulfiqar Mirza’s travelling political spectacle gains popular momentum.

At a massive public gathering in Lyari on Friday, the former home minister claimed he had apprehended target killers from ‘sector offices’ with heavy arms and ammunition but had to release them on Rehman Malik’s orders.

In a brazen call to arms, Mirza said he was ‘proud’ to have issued 300,000 weapon licences during his tenure.

“I gave the arms licences to the people of Karachi, not for aerial firing at wedding ceremonies but for times like these when no one is safe,” he said.

Expletives galore

Mirza’s public gathering in Lyari, termed the largest since Benazir’s rally in the area in 1987, was also addressed by chief of Sindh Nationalist Party (SNP) Ameer Bhumbhro and key leaders of the defunct People’s Amn Committee Uzair and Zafar Baloch.

Bhumbhro’s platitudes were followed by an initially-hesitant Zafar Baloch who went on to deliver an expletive-laden tirade against dictators, Rehman Malik and the Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM). Uzair Baloch followed, expressing his dissatisfaction at the provincial PPP leadership for conducting an operation in Lyari.

Invoking ethnic sentiments

Earlier, playing to the gallery in his home constituency, Mirza said the “time has gone when Sindhis were killed … the soldiers of Benazir Bhutto will not let this happen [any more].”

“For every innocent life taken in Karachi, five looters and terrorists would be killed,” Mirza said while addressing a press conference at his residence in Badin.

“I have given courage to millions of people to speak up and stand against the tyranny,” he said, and appealed to ‘the people of Sindh’ to use [arms] to save Pakistan’.

[gakakkad]

^^^ OT perhaps but for a long time I thought so too. Turns out Nixon bhaiya explicitly warned us against attacking West Pak. Threatened N-sizzles too. Which is partly why IG was forced to resort to 1974's peaceful BUddha.

Sure, we stood upto Nixon's and Kissassinger's shenanigans in the Bay of Bengal (USS Eisenhower and all that) but based on intell inputs and Soviet camp's assessments as well, IG decided to stand down on the west Pak issue. Sala we even returned the Haji Pir to the gutless wretches. That still rankles...

US did not have the capability to threaten India . They were already stretched out in Vietnam . Using nukes would have been the surest way of ensuring World War 3 . The soviets are said to have warned them to stay out. The shimla pack etc was pure dhimmi attitude only. Even the seventh fleet commander admitted that their government "wanted to order them to their deaths ."

[RamaY]

what kind of mineral wealth does gilgit-baltistan have ? Because the Chinese seem a little too interested. I heard molybdenum or other rare earth elements.

Not many moons ago the pundits of BRF proclaimed that PoK is of no economic or strategic value to India as it all looks white on google maps. On the other hand Mumbai is worth billions of BMD shield, military/civic infra, thousands of military/civilian lives because its GDP is >$150B, without consuming any natural resources.

[sum]

The dhimmitude and chootiy@p@ at display does not come as a surprise to me for right from the moment child goes to school until he reaches adult hood there is no history textbook in school which covers the post independence Indo-Pak wars and events. I won't be surprised if the one's pursuing B.A in History too don't have it in their syllabus. Whatever the mango man in India knows about the Indo-Pak relations is via the media and we know the kind of slant latter has on this issue.

Even i had been one of those cho@@@ and would have been one if not for BRF!!!

A compulsory reading of the 1st post of TSP dhaga should be made a fundamental right to all Indians and then we might rid of most Dhimmis out here ( who are unwittingly turned dhimmis due to lack of knowledge of correct facts)

[sum]

From the silent horse's( MMS who doesn't seem to feel like talking about anything to Indian junta) mouth itself:
Manmohan Singh, Musharraf came close to striking Kashmir deal: WikiLeaks

According to the US embassy cable - dated April 21, 2009 - Singh confirmed this to a visiting US delegation, led by then House Foreign Affairs Committee chairman Howard Berman in April, 2009, saying that the solution included free trade and movement across LoC.

Singh told the US delegation that Delhi and Islamabad had made great progress prior to February 2007, when President Musharraf ran into trouble. "We had reached an understanding in back channels," he related, says the cable, in which Musharraf had agreed to a non-territorial solution to Kashmir. Singh went on to add that India wanted a strong, stable, peaceful, democratic Pakistan and makes no claim on "even an inch" of Pakistani territory.

Singh's comments authenticate Musharraf's assertions last year that India and Pakistan had reached that stage, where they were preparing the final draft for the resolution. He had said the two sides shared drafts through "back channels", and these were in keeping with the four-point template which he had envisaged to resolve the issue. Singh, too, mentions in the cable that the two sides had arrived at the solution through back channels.

I 400% believe that MMS had come within touching distance of bartering many things despite all the Chankian spin many of BRF put on his actions... My hat off to the background babus/IA etc who prevented this blunder.

[ramana]

gkakkad, If that was so why 1974?

[sum]

More American cables on Indo-TSP:
GOI DOCUMENT: DEVELOPMENTS IN INDIA-PAKISTAN

During a November 19 meeting reviewing the agenda for
the upcoming Indo-Pak composite dialogue (reftel), MEA Joint
Secretary (Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran) Arun K. Singh shared
with us four papers outlining progress in the Indo-Pak
relationship since 2003, pending bilateral proposals,
unilateral Indian actions, and areas where India perceives
Pakistan to be dragging its feet. Following is the Indian
paper on "Progress in the Indo-Pak Relationship Since 2003,"
the main thrust of which is to highlight the numerous areas
where the two sides have narrowed differences since
Vajpayee's hand of friendship speech. This upbeat catalogue
of accomplishments reflects the generally positive GOI
assessment of the Indo-Pak dialogue.

Were these papers mentioned public knowledge or some internal GoI documents?

[sum]

INDIAN JOURNALISTS RAVE ABOUT VISIT TO PAKISTANI KASHMIR

Other journalists reported a session they had at Azad Kashmir University in Muzaffarabad, where they heard strong pro-independence and pro-accession (to Pakistan) views (as well as complaints of large numbers of ISI agents in the auditorium, impeding free speech). Advocates of an independent Kashmir told the Hindu's Bukhari that there were at least 16 cases of student expulsions there for these views.

Hazra also reported that ""azadi"" (""freedom"") is ""on all minds"" in POK, more so in Mirpur than in Muzaffarabad, where she noted a radically different tone, ""almost as if independence was an abstract afterthought."" Sareen commented that the pro-independence lobby is well aware that there is ""no question of Pakistan ever allowing control over Azad Kashmir or the Northern Areas to slip out of its hands."" This prompted some to ask why India does not call Islamabad's bluff by conceding the plebiscite principle. He reported that local journalists had described ""a change in mindset in POK in favor of independence,"" primarily as a result of their treatment at the hands of the Pakistani establishment.

Several found significant improvements since previous visits 4-10 years ago. They were impressed with infrastructure improvements in Gilgit. A Jammu-based editor was amazed at the excellent roads and uninterrupted power supply (in sharp contrast to what Indians are used to).

[sum]

INDIA VERY CONFIDENT IT IS RIGHT ON BAGLIHAR DAM

In a January 12 meeting with PolCouns, MEA Joint Secretary (Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran) Arun K Singh was brimming with confidence that India was in the right on the Baglihar Dam issue. If Pakistan went forward with arbitration, as it has suggested, India is ready, and will be vindicated, he stated. New Delhi believes the dispute has little to do with water, and is primarily a political issue raised by Islamabad to prevent India from completing projects that benefit Kashmiris, as the hydroelectric project is designed to do. Singh did not see the dispute as derailing the Composite Dialogue. The World Bank tells us arbitration is terra incognita for them, suggesting that this case could easily continue for a long time, given the many hypotheticals.

Looking back historically, the Joint Secretary saw the Dam as analagous in some respects to the Wullar Barrage/Tulbul Navigation Project, which the GOI delayed for several months as a favor to Benazir Bhutto, not as a treaty provision. Once the GOI stopped it, he continued, Islamabad ""had what it wanted,"" and refused to engage substantively after that. India will not make the same mistake again.

We never seem to learn and keep trying over and over to mi=olify the TSP snake!! *sigh*

[ramana]

Only the TSP military related families have this deep seated hatred for India and Hindus.

[gakakkad]

IMHO "US pressure" has often been used as an excuse for the dhimmi attitude towards TSP. Especially , in the last decade. There is a limit till which it ll go to save its munna. The US had absolutely no capacity to harm India in 1970's . People often argue that it sent it "navy" to attack India etc. But it surely would not have dared attack soviet unions closest ally . It would be analogous to USSR whacking England. They surely could not afford a nuke war with SU. Because the damage to US would have been far more. The SU population was spread out the whole country . They did not have huge population centres like the American east coast. England would have been wiped out . The Americans were too smart for such an error of judgement. If IG gave in to US pressure in 71 or 74 than it was her lack of balls . I she whacked the paki's then US would not have dared do anything .
In the last 10 years , it was India that provided business for US not the Paki's . The outsourcing thing increased the profitability of American companies . These companies have been an important source for the campaign money for the Americans. Paki's offer nothing . If we whack porkies now the US would not even mew .

Whatever importance TSP has on the world stage is due to gross Indian incompetence in diplomacy rather than anything else. We are frightened bunch of people , wanting to hold mommies saree any given opportunity .
Even tinpot little vietnam has more balls than we do. They defeated the Americans and the Chinese .

[Singha]

...and the french too before that.

proves the old saying - its not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog.

[Prem]

[pradeepe]

The reason for all this pussy footed policy making and pappi-jhappi is pseudo-secularism; the reality is the self proclaimed secular front of India is the one which does not trusts the Muslims in India...

Thats a very interesting observation. Never viewed it like that. I always thought the well intentioned ones atleast and quite a few they are, were always trying to be too clever by half, twisting and spinning tales using well honed rhetoric, advocating in convoluted ways that bending over is always the best option. A little blood is a small price to pay and all that. But this is interesting, it could very well be that they probably dont trust the muslims at all. The sad thing I think is that they hurt their cause even frikkin' more and a damn insult to them as well.

[Nihat]

IMHO some amount of WKK ism in India is acceptable (even good), the IIT-B types, naxal sympathizers , MSA etc are necessary evils or even put useful Idiots in the Indian context. We ought to have some amount of faith in the will of the "people" of India . Ground realities have never changed for India in the Indo-Pak scenario despite years of papi-jhappi and they will never change because the Ideals on which India was formed are far too strong compared to a weak and fundamentally flimsy and theocratic state like TSP. We are a strong nation formed on the principles of Democracy, Justice, Secularism and hard work of our people and no amount of WKK-ism is going to change that.

Some of it is good because of the perception it creates that India is an accommodating nation of benign people , as a nation a hardliner approach should only be applied where it has a good chance of working , not in barking at the neighbor a la TSP as it gives the impression of an overly obsessed and jealous race.

[gakakkad]

^^^
>>>IIT-B types<<<

.. Not all IIT-b grads are wkk ... In fact most are good guys..Maybe just a single rogue faculty or student with support and pressure from outside did this..

[rajithn]

^^^
>>>IIT-B types<<<

.. Not all IIT-b grads are wkk ... In fact most are good guys..Maybe just a single rogue faculty or student with support and pressure from outside did this..

Most Indians are "WKK". As a people, perhaps because we had to look after ourselves in spite of the Government, we only think of ourselves. "If I am not the affected party, I am not really bothered". This feeling is all pervading and the love
for "peace" with the Pakis is just another manifestation of this self-centredness.

This will perhaps change over time.

For the moment though, the Indians who truly think for the interests of the country are but a minority. Present company at Bharat-Rakshak included.

Until such time that realization dawns and a majority move over from the dark side, we will have to see many more of these "love fests".

All we can do is chip away at it patiently in any way or form that is at our disposal.

[SSridhar]

^^^ SSridhar, this may cheer you up. Tharoor himself is aware of the futility of such meets, and expresses it quite clearly. In fact, he might be writing about the very program you watched.

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/columnis ... dy-manners

Nandu, thanks for the link. He was indeed referring to the same depressing programme I witnessed and wailed about. However, he has made me even more depressed and so early in the morning too after a very restless night as a consequence of that NewsX programme. If he says Track-II diplomacy is brushing away all these issues under carpet and is harping on some feel-good factors, we are seriously committing our country to courting even more disaster.

[RamaY]

^^^
>>>IIT-B types<<<

.. Not all IIT-b grads are wkk ... In fact most are good guys..Maybe just a single rogue faculty or student with support and pressure from outside did this..

Why supporting the unsupportable? The whole nation, starting with PMO is filled with WKKs. The jingoes are in minority everywhere.

[RamaY]

It was idiotic not to take over POK in 71

...

. It ll be very difficult with the Chinese around. Covert op's is the only way out of the mess.

It is not idiotic in 1971 as we already achieved victory somewhere. It was a wise move to show the world that we stand for dharma.

On the other hand it is idiotic in 2007 to try to make peace with Pakistan as MMS tried to do. And it is idiotic to keep quite in 2011 when Chinese moved into PoK.

If we cannot stand up to China in PoK, how can we stand up to them in the eastern front?

PoK is India's legitimate territory, more legitimate than Tibet. If we cannot take on PRC for PoK, how can we protect our geopolitical interests in eastern sector (Tibet/Burma/Nepal/Bhutan)?

[A_Gupta]

The actual cable. IMO, much ado about nothing.
http://wikileaks.org/cable/2009/04/09NEWDELHI782.html

[A_Gupta]

Excerpt - sorry, having trouble editing from tablet.

¶4. (SBU) Asked by Representative Jim Costa about the new U.S.
strategy toward Afghanistan, the Prime Minister said a
successful effort will not be completed in a year or two, but
requires a long-term commitment. Acknowledging the
difficulties of modernizing a "primitive, tribal" economy, he
suggested it was necessary for the U.S. to demonstrate
staying power in order to convince its enemies they must
compromise. When Costa asked if the GoI would be willing to
train Afghan police, the Prime Minister replied that India
would be "happy to help" train them. He described India's
U.S. $1.2 billion commitment to road-building, power, health
and education, and insisted that India has "no military
ambitions" in Afghanistan.

Ready for Dialogue as Soon as Pakistan Lives up to Terrorism
Commitments

NEW DELHI 00000782 002 OF 004


- - - -
¶5. (SBU) Questioned by Representative Sheila Jackson-Lee
about relations with Pakistan, the Prime Minister said Delhi
and Islamabad had made great progress prior to February 2007,
when President Musharraf ran into trouble. "We had reached an
understanding in back channels," he related, in which
Musharraf had agreed to a non-territorial solution to Kashmir
that included freedom of movement and trade. The Prime
Minister added that India wants a strong, stable, peaceful,
democratic Pakistan and makes no claim on "even an inch" of
Pakistani territory. Pakistan, on the other hand, supports
infiltrators, hoping "by a thousand cuts" to weaken Indian
solidarity, according to the Prime Minister.

¶6. (SBU) Reminding his visitors that India had lost nearly
200 of its citizens in the Mumbai attacks, the Prime Minister
said it would be possible to return to dialogue only if
Pakistan would "behave as a civilized country and bring the
perpetrators to justice." U.S. and British intelligence had
certified that the Mumbai attackers came from Pakistan. Now,
Pakistani leaders had to stick by commitments made to Prime
Minister Vajpayee and repeated to Prime Minister Singh in
2005 that they would not permit attacks on India launched
from Pakistani soil. If so, huge trade opportunities awaited,
according to the Prime Minister, who added that a strong
Indian constituency favored normalized relations.

¶7. (SBU) Recalling the July 2008 attack on India's embassy in
Kabul, the Prime Minister asserted that it had been carried
out "with the active encouragement" of Pakistan's ISI. He had
raised the issue with President Zardari and Prime Minister
Gilani; both promised to investigate but never did. The Prime
Minister stated that all he had heard in reply was a claim
that the "old" ISI supported the attack. Praising President
Obama's efforts to control terror groups, the Prime Minister
said India was happy to play a role in these efforts.

PM Supports Administration's Approach to Non-Proliferation
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¶8. (SBU) In the Prime Minister's opening remarks, he stated .....

[abhishek_sharma]

Indian troops no threat to Pak, PM told Clinton

[abhishek_sharma]

US envoy to Pak justified funds as ‘defence’ against ‘threat from India’

Ensure no 26/11 before Pak talks, PM tells US

[sum]

PM Manmohan Singh needed assurances that there would be "no more Mumbais" before reengaging with Pakistan and wanted the US to use its leverage with Pakistan's military to ensure terrorists do not launch attacks against India from Pakistan.

Is India really "7th largest landmass, largest standing army and 2nd most populous nation and a rising power" or is it a 3rd world meek tinpot dependent on external big daddies for its survival?

Why this extreme dhimmi behavior towards Pak and when MMS mentions "no more Mumbais", what happened to the original "Mumbai"? Is it forgotten and forgiven?

[Bhaskar]

PM Manmohan Singh needed assurances that there would be "no more Mumbais" before reengaging with Pakistan and wanted the US to use its leverage with Pakistan's military to ensure terrorists do not launch attacks against India from Pakistan.

Is India really "7th largest landmass, largest standing army and 2nd most populous nation and a rising power" or is it a 3rd world meek tinpot dependent on external big daddies for its survival?

Why this extreme dhimmi behavior towards Pak and when MMS mentions "no more Mumbais", what happened to the original "Mumbai"? Is it forgotten and forgiven?

Why India did not take any kind of military, covert or overt, action after 26/11 is beyond me.

Didn't MMS want a Kashmir solution? What better chance we had to unite J&K with POK.