West Asia News and Discussions

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16006
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

Philip wrote:"Sorry" Rajesh,I don't accept that thesis! Turkey was Israel's closest friend in the Muslim world,with close military cooperation.It legitimised Israel's stand that the Jewish state could have good relations with a Muslim country,even militayry cooperation.The UN inquiry has found that Israel's stopping the Gaza flotilla was legitimate but its use of force excessive.Some who were killed were shot at close range and there are many unanswered Qs which Israel has not been cooperative enough.Unfortunately,this action was a collossal shot in the foot by Israel.The action ignited a Turkish nation,uniting it in anger against Israel for the first time ever.I ask you,if you consider somone your friend and this unfortunate incident happens,would you not say sorry to him? After all,the flotilla was not an official Turkish govt. entity.Israel has now lost Turkey.This is a major setback for it.The Turks could now adopt a softer approach to Syria allowing that embattled regime in dire straits nough support to survive.
Some background on Israel-Turkish relationship on Wikipedia.
Wikipedia wrote:Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan harshly criticized Israel's conduct in Gaza at the World Economic Forum conference in Davos, Switzerland in early 2009. After the assembled audience applauded Peres, Erdogan said: "I find it very sad that people applaud what you said. You killed people. And I think that it is very wrong." The moderator, Washington Post columnist David Ignatius asked Erdogan to finish, saying that people needed to go to dinner. Major-General Avi Mizrahi advised the Turkish Prime Minister to "look in the mirror". He stated that as Turkey still occupied the northern third of Cyprus, it had no right to criticize Israel. Erdogan then stormed off the stage.
Erdoğan's need to play to the Muslim gallery had caused Israeli relations to Turkey to degrade much before the flotilla incident. The Gaza Flotilla incident was just one more incident, which Erdogan could use to distance himself from Israel. He needed a public spat with Israel to do so, because he too has to justify the estrangement with Israel to the Turkish security establishment.

What you speak of is of the times before AKP came to power.
Philip wrote:The plight of the Palestinians in Gaza has been an open secret for years.They struggle to survive and their miserable plight has seen them join Hamas in droves,only enlargening the ranks of the anti-Israeli terror factions within the Palestinian groups.These groups have still not reconciled themselves to the legitimacy of the Israeli state and thrive on the plight of the Palestinians.They use a network of tunnels into Sinai to smuggle in arms,even vehicles into Gaza with the connivance of Egyptians who now will do so more openly.Israel has adopted the hardest stance thus far towards life in the Palestinian enclaves.It hasnot produced any softening of the Palestinian stand,in fact hardening it further.As well-wishers of Israel,why not it try even a small % in ameliorating the difficulties of the Palestinians,it might pay peace dividends.After all,it is worth trying.It could seek international cooperation if need be.If it doesn't work Israel can always apply pressure later on.
Israel will manage Palestine, the way it feels proper. Israel is on the scene and is a better judge of what to do!

India has been providing some financial help to the Palestinians and we should continue to do so. We can provide doctors, humanitarian assistance, education, administrative support. What we cannot do, is to intervene politically or militarily in the situation.

We can make hollow calls to Israel to go easy on Palestinians. We can make hollow calls to Two-State Solution.

What we should never forget however is that Israel keeps the sew-saw of Asian Geopolitics and Islam balanced with Israel on one end and India on the other. If Israel falls, all the Islamic trash is going to come rolling over onto India.
shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7100
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Keep an eye on Sheikh Adnan Arour. A syrian based in Saudi commanding the brigades in Jisr Al Shughour from KSA.
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21537
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

Rajesh,no one is suggesting that israel "gives up" and allows the Palestinains/Hamas/Hiz a free run at all! Israel overd ecades has been very skillful in its diplomacy and handling of the P issue.In recent times it has faced criticism from within its own ranks too ,like that of the last Mossad chief about Bibi's ultra hard-line policies whichw ere damaging Israel's interests.At this oment,with such a volatile and fluid MEast,it needs all the friends it has especially handling carefully relations with those Muslim nations who are its friends and those nations who are its neighbours.
RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16006
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

Philip, when Israel starts pumping Gas from the Leviathan Gas Field, it would probably become a main supplier to Europe. Then the equations would again be rehashed.

Israel is also building close relations with Cyprus (Greek), also revolving around energy and aggressiveness of the Turks and thus gets to have a voice within EU itself. Greece may follow suit.

In the region itself, both Egypt and Turkey, the big powers there have moved away from Israel. This is discomforting for Israel. However Syria is again up for grabs, and the realignment there may see Israel getting another "friend" in Latakia. After the disturbances in Syria, it is up in the air, whether Syria would be able to assert its rights over Golan Heights anymore, as Syria fragments.

In Syria, the Hezbollah are going to lose the supply line from Iran, in general making them weaker. Hamas however may become more brazen.

Turkey knows that if it ever comes into direct confrontation with Israel, it would probably be thrown out of NATO. Egypt too would suffer. Let's not forget Egypt has its Sinai and Suez Channel to lose again.

We will see Israel move into proxy wars with Turkey using Kurds, and there will be some destabilization of Egypt too.
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21537
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

Rajesh,my great fear is that the harder the line Israel takes,the greater will be the opposition/population turning to pan-Islamic entities with the moderate leaders in those Muslim countries being dumped.I predict that in not too great a time,the west will be ruing the day when they conspired to unleash the "Arab Spring/Jasmine Revolution".These events have ended up in becoming a "scorching Summer" and eventually ending up into a "winter of discontent".

Now Turkey is (pun intended) no "turkey! It has a far better military force than any of Israel's neighbours and has a thriving domestic arms industry,plus the advantage of being a NATO nation.Greece,the Turks bete noire,right now is bankrupt and cannot embark upon any mis-adventure.It is also riven internally with discontent against the govt. of the day and ripe for its own revolution.The Turks are now sabre rattling in the Medit. and that fact alone,though will not end up in any actual spat is a signal to the world that it is mightily p*ssed off with Israel and is no longer a friend.

*PL. see a key item in the report about the Turks also wanting their navy to sail into the IOR under the "Barabaros Plan".

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-0 ... -says.html
Turkey Navy to Raise Mediterranean Profile Amid Spat, Sabah Says

Turkey will increase its naval presence in the eastern Mediterranean as tensions with Israel mount, Sabah newspaper reported, without saying how it obtained the information.

Turkey will deploy more ships, destroyers, submarines, coast guard vessels, helicopters and planes in the region as part of a decision to protect the right to free travel, the Istanbul-based newspaper said. Turkey also plans to have a more active presence in the Red Sea, the Adriatic and the Indian Ocean under the navy’s Barbaros Plan, Sabah reported.
RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16006
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

Philip ji,

consider a scenario, where Turkey is nailed to its own geography, and not allowed to really get out and spread its wings. Turkey's whole Southeast is a region with high political volatility.

Israel needs a direct route to supply the Kurds. I proposed through Alawite+Christian State in North Syria, from the Mediterranean.

With an active insurgency in Turkey, all of Turkey's tires would be punctured.
Agnimitra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5150
Joined: 21 Apr 2002 11:31

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Agnimitra »

This writer seems to think the Israel-Turkey spat is choreographed stuff that will blow over:
Long-term prospects for Israel and Turkey

RajeshA ji, I think Phillip has a point. Pro-Israel lobbies everywhere highlight and distort the regional picture in favour of extremist or overtly pan-Islamist political groups in order to scare away Western (or Indian) thinkers that try to envision constructive engagement in the ME that is not unconditionally tied to Israel's cause. But this tactic will ultiamtely backfire as it becomes rather worn and well-known, and the mutual hatred in that region has reached an intense pitch. This includes many leftist people in the EU (and India). Many non-Islamist, liberal ME groups also now consider Israel untouchable because of the mischief it stirs up. Israel's tactic appears to be to create a non-rational situation and force a non-rational choice on the West / India against ME countries. This is over and above the prisoner's dilemma kind of game theory. Ultimately there is no controlling which way this could go.
RajeshA wrote:Israel needs a direct route to supply the Kurds.
But the biggest benefit of Kurdish self-determination will ultiamtely turn out to be Iran, not Israel, even if it cuts Turkey down to size. Just like Iran is so far the biggest beneficiary of the liberation of Iraqi Shi'a. Unless Iran is dealt a decisive blow, which doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon. Moreover, independent Kurds will eventually also merge into the complex of alliances in the ME and will not remain an Israeli pawn. Israel does need to be concerned about any permanent damage to its relations with Turkey.

This from the Haaretz:
Turkey crisis is just start of Israel's diplomatic tsunami
The crisis in relations with Turkey is a red alert of the attacks we're in for on the diplomatic, security and economic fronts, affecting the lives of 450,000 protesters, demanding social justice.
RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16006
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

Carl wrote:But the biggest benefit of Kurdish self-determination will ultiamtely turn out to be Iran, not Israel, even if it cuts Turkey down to size. Just like Iran is so far the biggest beneficiary of the liberation of Iraqi Shi'a. Unless Iran is dealt a decisive blow, which doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon. Moreover, independent Kurds will eventually also merge into the complex of alliances in the ME and will not remain an Israeli pawn. Israel does need to be concerned about any permanent damage to its relations with Turkey.
Carl ji,

AFAIK, Kurds are very strong backers of USA in Iraq. In fact much of the political heavy lifting in Iraq is done by the Kurds who through their presence in the Iraqi Parliament can sway things between Shi'ites and Sunnis. Those who followed the whole Iraqi Occupation would be aware of this dynamic.

Kurds know that all the regional players are just wolves fighting among themselves over the Kurdish pie, water, etc. Nobody in the region is really a friend of the Kurds. So the Kurds really need a very strong international player, who has the clout to keep these wolves under leash. For that they are willing to oblige the external powers.

Even PKK had to look for support outside the region towards the Soviet Union. Kurds have always looked for support from one or the other superpower. They can have temporary alliances in the region, but they know their regional allies are not to be trusted, because the next morning they can make a deal and sell them out.

Maybe Iran under a new dispensation and new boundaries could become a Kurdish friend, but not under present circumstances. With Iran, the Kurds can at the most have a detente and some cooperation.

So I am of the opinion, that Kurds will always need an external patron. Due to geographical proximity to Europe and American interests, it would be mostly USA.

Kurds also have a very good partnership with Israel, and this will continue.

Some day, I hope India can take over this role.
Agnimitra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5150
Joined: 21 Apr 2002 11:31

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Agnimitra »

RajeshA ji, Israel can certainly be part of all these shifting alliances, but I can't see how it is to their advantage to queer the pitch to the extent Bibi has been doing.
RajeshA wrote:Kurds know that all the regional players are just wolves fighting among themselves over the Kurdish pie, water, etc. Nobody in the region is really a friend of the Kurds. So the Kurds really need a very strong international player, who has the clout to keep these wolves under leash. For that they are willing to oblige the external powers.
I agree. North Iraq was definitely a huge gift. But Kurds also know that US/Israel is also just using them, they are also wolves. What I'm saying is that in the medium to long term, that fact will play out, especially if the US continues to withdraw from direct involvement on the ground (and depends on proxies), and as things change w.r.t. Turkey-Iran-Arab politics in the ME. One angle of this triangle will become more and more pro-Kurdish, and that angle is likely to be Iran. They're already playing that card more and more, e.g., Iran connives in the travel of its own Kurds across the border with Iraqi Kurdistan. Sponsored groups like PJAK apart, at a mass level many ordinary Kurds on the ground in the region see Iran as a somewhat less obnoxious haven against the others, esp. Turks and Arab groups. Israel does have a lever with the Kurds, but in the medium to long term, you think this is going to be Israel's trump card or Iran's? Based on that, we (India) can position ourselves.
RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16006
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

Carl ji,

the next thing I am looking out for is whether there will be any permanent US bases in Iraq or not. Sure they will keep "trainers" and "consultants", which is another name for "combat troops", but I think the only bases which will be allowed would be in Kurdish areas.

No power is really there in the business of doing charity for others. They have to look after their own interests. The Kurds do recognize that Americans would not just become their patrons and not ask anything in return. So inter-dependency dynamics are created. Patronage without dependency cannot be trusted.

There would be some cooperation between Iran and Kurdish Regional Government, but they would hardly become allies. After all, all Kurds know that Iran possesses one part of their homeland. I can't really comment on how Kurds really feel about Iran. Perhaps I would have to do some research.

I however do see a lot of potential between Israel and Kurdistan. We will have to see how it develops.
shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7100
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Sounds like Turkey has pulled the plug on their plans for a buffer zone. And this has lost a lot of influence with the GCC. So to balance this out, the turks have decided to agressively deal with Israel in order to pander to islamists. GCC officials are not impressed and think Turkey are being stupid.
Agnimitra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5150
Joined: 21 Apr 2002 11:31

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Agnimitra »

^^^ :lol: I think the Turks are being stupid, too. Their attitude seems to have changed noticeably after Iran overtly played the PKK card. So Shyamd ji, would this be curtains for plans to enter and partition Syria? Or are there other options on the table?
Agnimitra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5150
Joined: 21 Apr 2002 11:31

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Agnimitra »

RajeshA wrote:No power is really there in the business of doing charity for others. They have to look after their own interests. The Kurds do recognize that Americans would not just become their patrons and not ask anything in return. So inter-dependency dynamics are created. Patronage without dependency cannot be trusted.
Its a question of how the pieces fall after an existing order is thrown up in the air. In a place like the ME, we can see that it doesn't always go as planned. The party that gave the impetus for a change may not necessarily end up as the prime beneficiary after the chips fall. Who has more influence over the Iraqi Prime Minister today? He backed Iran on Syria, on Bahrain and didn't say a word when they went after PJAK, he brought Sadr back, and now he's sending the yankees home.

Still, I agree with your main idea. A lot remains to be seen. But I do think that Bibi needs to tone it down a bit and not allow Israel to be seen as an untouchable by all parties in the region.
Last edited by Agnimitra on 07 Sep 2011 11:17, edited 1 time in total.
shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7100
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

The Turkss will have to set up a buffer zone if a civil war starts, at a min in its territory, max in syrian territory. There is no two ways about it.
The key here is to prevent syria splitting and the kurds getting brave and asking for independence too.

Asaad knows he is gone. No option but to get a 1 way ticket to iran or somewhere.
RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16006
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

Carl ji,

Israel gets to have short periods of relative security, because the region is always in turmoil and thus distracted. What Israel would not want is governments with weak holds over their population, which allows Jihad to go into unorganized sector. Strong governments can better keep their people under control.

However Israel would also like to see one country in the region fighting with other countries in the region, as that ensures distraction. So if Syria breaks up, but each part has got strong governments, then that would benefit Israel. So fragmentation of Syria is in fact in interest of Israel.

The more Kurds fight against Turks, the better it is for Israel. It keeps Turkey bogged down. Should Turkey walk into Syria, it could give Syrians a reason to fight Turks as well. Alawites against Sunni Syrians means Golan becomes less of an issue.

Israel requires distraction. Same way India too needs our Western neighbors to be distracted, say by the Americans in Afghanistan.
RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16006
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

shyamd wrote:The Turks will have to set up a buffer zone if a civil war starts, at a min in its territory, max in syrian territory. There is no two ways about it.
The key here is to prevent syria splitting and the kurds getting brave and asking for independence too.

Asaad knows he is gone. No option but to get a 1 way ticket to iran or somewhere.
shyamd ji,

how do the powers that be think about this? What do you think, would the Israelis, the Americans, the French, the British, the Iranians would like to see? A split Syria or a united Syria.

Of course the Turks want to see a united Syria, but what about the others.

When Syria was under a French Mandate, even then there was an Alawite State on the Mediterranean. Can't that be restored?

Image

It is not so much about Assad personally but about the Alawite establishment.
shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7100
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

RajeshAji, for now all intervention will be via Turkey as a NATO MEMBer. I doubt they would want the country to split maybe even for economic reasons.
Agnimitra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5150
Joined: 21 Apr 2002 11:31

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Agnimitra »

Erdogan wants to install radar on Turky's border with Iran.
TehranTimes:
Iran warns over NATO’s radar system in Turkey: Minister
TEHRAN – Defense Minister Ahmad Vahidi has said that Iran will not tolerate any aggression against its national interests.

Vahidi made the remarks in an interview with reporters in Tehran on Tuesday in reference to the fact that Turkey has agreed to host an early warning radar as part of NATO’s missile defense system, which is ostensibly meant to counter an alleged ballistic missile threat from Iran.

Vahidi said, “We regard the presence of the Americans and the Westerners as troublesome, which would undermine security in Muslim countries and harm their interests.”

The Western countries have the blood of many Iraqi, Afghan, and Palestinian people on their hands, Vahidi stated, adding, “We do not regard their presence in any country as beneficial to Muslim countries.”

Elsewhere in his remarks, Vahidi commented on French President Nicolas Sarkozy’s remarks on August 31 in which he said that Iran’s alleged attempts to build long-range missiles and nuclear weapons could lead unnamed countries to launch a pre-emptive attack on the country.

Such remarks are meant to shift focus from the atrocities that the West is committing in Libya and certain other parts of the world onto issues which have no basis in fact, the Iranian defense minister said.

Elsewhere in his remarks, Vahidi stated that the Islamic Republic of Iran is making efforts to indigenize security in the region with the aim of helping maintain regional security without the presence of foreign forces.
shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7100
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

I am free for the next few hours, so I thought I'll give my thoughts on the regional situation.

There have been news articles about the Saudi's starting a nuclear weapons program.
The names of Bandar bin Sultan, Crown prince, Turki al Faisal are for a military program. While prince Naif and foreign min Saud Al Faisal is against starting one.
The funny thing is, this is just petty politics of extracting as much as possible from the US. The family is in unison on the nuclear issue, everyone knows the saudi's are already in possesion of nuclear weapons.
I find it quite interesting of how they are resorting to these tactics of media management. This tactic is very similar to the one india and iran used to go nuclear, although Iran mesed it up a little as everyone knows their intentions.
I think you may wake up one morning in the next few years to find KSA has tested a nuke weapon.
The US was ready to dump the rulers at an instance, do you really think the US will stand side by side against iran?
The saudi's already have trained nuclear physicists in pak back in 2003 and 2004 when khaled bin sultan the current assistant def min visited the nuclear complexes.
As I say, the saudi's are also reported to have a nuclear prog in the military city of khamis mushayt in the south.

Its also no secret that every GCC nation has called up offers to buy CBRN (chemical, biological... Nuclear) vehicles, detectors. Even Oman. This suggests that the GCC is preparing.

Given that Syria is protesting, this is actually a great time for the GCC because Iran is spending money and military power to secure its interests. At the same time the turks, nato, US are all showing war signs and build ups. So Iran is likely maintaining a constant state of alert.
So eventually the iranians will come under further economic strain and fall from within, without a bullet being fired.

Re: China having bases in the GCC. This was a bluff put forward to vent anger at the obama administration. Everyone knows china has no capability to deploy in the Gulf.
It makes you think that the TSPians who were begging prc to have bases and station sships in gwadar, were bluffing too.
The US and Pak just had a rift and it was more to keep internal unrest at bay. As of now US pak relations are more or less back to normal as trainers will be allowed back in.
The recent arrests of AQ leaders with CIA support is further evidence.

Things are back to how they were... This also means that problems with the TTP and afghan taleban have also been likely resolved somehow.
Will be interesting to see what was offered.

Syria - protests will build up and keep building up. Turkey has put off its plans to directly support syrian protesters. Assad has made comments against turkey but has also left the door open to resume relations as normal.
So they are working on other plans to bring assad down I am sure.

It is clear that western rhetoric against syrian regime has begun. Nato is also building up and getting ready to take on syria. A sudden slowdown in action is due primarily because of turkey, who seems to have toned down. Instead diverting attention to israel to get some browny points.
As one Indian army official once told me, as long as they think a country sends troops helpss build relations. Whether the country does or not is an another matter.
Agnimitra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5150
Joined: 21 Apr 2002 11:31

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Agnimitra »

^^^ Shyamd ji, thanks for posting.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60273
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

Keep an eye on energy supplies and their securing for West. Net effect of turmoil will be Indina and PRC pay for the high energy supplies and thus moderate theri growth.
shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7100
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Just thought I'll add about Syria. Basically one foreign intel service who knows about Syria. They think his fall will come quick. They are waiting for his army to split and dissent. The protests are growing.
Just FYI.
RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16006
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

shyamd wrote:Just thought I'll add about Syria. Basically one foreign intel service who knows about Syria. They think his fall will come quick. They are waiting for his army to split and dissent. The protests are growing.
Just FYI.
shyamd ji,

Will the Alawites hold on, tucked up in some territorial corner, or will they have give up power like the Ba'athists in Iraq?
abhischekcc
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4277
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: If I can’t move the gods, I’ll stir up hell
Contact:

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by abhischekcc »

Hi Guys,

Need a little help in identifying a book. There was a reference to it some time ago in some discussion on the forum.

It was a book on the 1965 war, and detailed how the west had war gamed the whole scenario and planned, etc. K Subrahmaniam had seen the book in a bookshop on a visit to London, and the reference was to an article/letter he had written to a newspaper about this incident.

TIA.

If it available online, could you post the URL? If you have a soft copy, I will give my email address to post it.
shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7100
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

RajeshA ji. If we lOok at iraq & libya. They will eventually retreat to their strnghold. Usually where they are from or have sstrong support. Like gaddafi - retreated to sirte first, then south to targan. Saddam to tikrit and the sunni triangle.
So it is likely that assad will retreat to the alawite belt. Howevr, we are a while away from all this. Maybe 2 or 3 months. Then the syrians will surround the belt and defeat the lOyalists. All the nations are united in keeping syria togeether for economic reasons
I'll talk more about syria tonight and hopefully answer your question in more detail.
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21537
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

More trouble on store for Israel when the Palestinians go to the UN demanding statehood.It is going to complicate matters.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/se ... membership

Palestinians to push ahead with bid for UN membership despite pressureStatehood would give Palestinians greater leverage in fighting Israeli occupation, says Mahmoud Abbas

Xcpt:
The Palestinian president has insisted that last-ditch diplomatic efforts to avert a collision at the United Nations over the Palestinians' bid for statehood came too late and they would forge ahead despite being "under pressure from the world".

"Whatever the pressures, we're going to the UN to submit our application for the membership. We know that many countries do not agree with us, do not like this idea, but we will go there," Mahmoud Abbas said at his presidential compound in Ramallah.

He said he would only reconsider his bid for recognition of a Palestinian state at the UN if a return to negotiations with the Israelis on the basis of the pre-1967 borders and a total freeze on settlement building was offered.

But the US and Europe had been too slow in harnessing diplomatic energy to the issue, he said. "To be frank with you, they came too late. They wasted all the time from the beginning of this year … til today or yesterday, they wasted all this time. Now when they come here to tell us, okay we have this idea or this package and don't go to the UN, we will not accept it."

The Palestinian delegation would arrive in New York on 19 September and would submit its application to be accepted as a member of the world body in the following days. "Everything is ready, everything is in hand," he said.

The application would first be submitted to the security council, whose approval is required for full membership, despite the US saying it would veto such a move. The Palestinians may then seek recognition short of member status at the general assembly, which needs a two-thirds majority.

Pressure over their chosen course was intense. "Everyone is asking us to do or not to do, to change our minds," Abbas said. The Palestinians did not want confrontation, "neither with America nor with anyone else", but "there will be confrontation".
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60273
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

abhischekcc wrote:Hi Guys,

Need a little help in identifying a book. There was a reference to it some time ago in some discussion on the forum.

It was a book on the 1965 war, and detailed how the west had war gamed the whole scenario and planned, etc. K Subrahmaniam had seen the book in a bookshop on a visit to London, and the reference was to an article/letter he had written to a newspaper about this incident.

TIA.

If it available online, could you post the URL? If you have a soft copy, I will give my email address to post it.
its:

Crisis Game by Sidney Giffin

Amazon Link:
LINK


KS article:

1965 War decided fate of Indian Sub-continent
shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7100
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Just continuing on my post regarding Syria.
So the next stage in the movement is for the army to split and refuse orders. You could hear of lower ranked soldiers sshooting ssuperiors. Several soldiers kill deserters or soldiers who refused orders. Once other soldiers realise their friends are killed this makes dissent more prevalent.
But the major factor is killing un armed civi's. The bloodbath will get so bad that the soldier will break down and get angry. This will start the break off.
Another thing to watch for are the colnels. They are the bridge between the politicians and the lower ranked soldiers. If they defect then this will slow the regime responses right down, as the colnels will know all the moves.
Then the sunni community that assad's rely upon - these are businessmen, armed forces guys (even Min of defencee) etc. For these, its pure economic. If business not going well, then they will want someone else.

Arab League chief due to visit damascus tomorrow. More warnings will be issued. And this will pave the way for arab action if asad continues to butcher his citizens.
So this will pave the way for nato, turks, GCC to start financial and intelligence etc support to the rebels.

For now, the US, EU, Iranians want to keep asad in power. So the turks are using the excuse of destroying the pkk and pjak, to put things off, the turks are diverting attention to israel. Iran is also busy getting rid of pjak and is happy that the US doesn't really want to see Asad go.
But the iranians aren't that worried about asad going. The US wants pkk and pjak removed so that they can have permanent basses in kurdistan, so iran has no excuse to cause trouble there, secondly they want to use the KRG to communicate to tehran to put pressure on asad to go through with multi part reforms.
So, iran is doing some tough talking to asad in public to keep US happy. But at the same time iranian police, hezbollah, mil intel etc are all coordinating against syrian protesters.

EU will have to sanction energy exports to really have an effect.

All this is happening while GCC and egypt have lost trust in the turks, on their agreeements to fight iranian influence.
So I imagine GCC now realises they are pretty much on their own.

All arab intel services still say that Asad is gone and he has one hand on his suitcase and another with his gun.

What if the country splits? They'll fight to keep it united as one. Turkey will create a buffer zone to arm the rebels and work on training them similar to libya actually, where benghazi was used as a jump off.

Let's see how this goes.
abhischekcc
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4277
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: If I can’t move the gods, I’ll stir up hell
Contact:

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by abhischekcc »

The unrelentingly continuous crisis in West Asia allows the US to fashion a very potent tool to control global oil prices. If it wants to raise oil prices, the simmering embers of the region are flared up. If it wants oil prices down, the crisis is 'defused', or KSA opens its oil spigots a little wider.
shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7100
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Mahan Abedin has spent some time in Delhi as a visiting fellow to IDSA. He is close with Iranian intel and their strategists.

A few must read articles:

Re-imagining the resistance axis
By Mahan Abedin

As the street-level opposition to the Syrian regime shows no signs of abating, there is growing pressure on strategic planners in Tehran to prepare for all scenarios, including one that doesn't involve current Syrian President Bashar al-Assad as the lynchpin of Syrian politics.

The perceived gravity of the problem, reinforced by region-wide changes, should force the entire Iranian foreign policymaking establishment to re-think and re-imagine the deepest dimensions of the country's regional diplomacy, including the very idea of the so-called "resistance axis".

There are deep fears in Tehran that the downfall or emasculation of Assad and the Alawite-led Ba'athist regime in Damascus will at


the very least complicate the intricate set of relations that Iran maintains with Lebanese and Palestinian non-state actors, notably Hezbollah and Hamas, and effectively set the Islamic Republic on the back foot in the great strategic rivalry with the United States over influence and hegemony in the Middle East.

While this anxiety is understandable and partly reflects the genuine balance of forces and interests on the ground, it is ultimately myopic and the product of unimaginative strategic thinking. The partial and (in the case of Libya) total collapse of several Arab regimes in the Middle East and North Africa, is a harbinger for a profound re-alignment of the strategic map of the region, and specifically one where diplomacy is set to become more complex and entail greater involvement by indigenous powers.

In this scenario, the so-called "resistance axis" will have to be re-configured to respond to more complex diplomatic and strategic challenges, for while it may not be rendered totally redundant, its rhetorical power may not be so easily invoked to reduce all regional dynamics to a competition between Iran and the United States.

Defining the resistance axis
In the journalistic and increasingly academic discourse, the resistance axis in the Middle East is generally defined as an anti-Israeli and to some extent anti-American political, military and diplomatic alliance between key states and highly capable non-state political-military organizations.

The non-state actors, chiefly in the form of Hezbollah, Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, assume the frontline burden of the nexus by directly confronting Israel and heightening the Jewish state's threat perception; thus undermining its ability to respond to more subtle and long-term challenges.

Syria is often described as the state with the most proximate relationship with these groups and the country which forms their primary line of defense. Syria in turn is described as being sustained and supported by the Islamic Republic of Iran, whose material, political and spiritual support is all-important to the preservation of the resistance axis.

From this point of view, both the software and hardware resides in Tehran, and it is the Islamic Republic's political, economic and ideological might that enables and empowers this nexus of resistance.

Most analysts describe the ultimate functionality of this resistance axis as a proxy war between Iran and Israel and a suitable vehicle for both states to avoid direct confrontation. More astute observers see it as a great game between Iran and the United States, to determine the political and ideological direction of the region.

What is remarkable is that Iranian, Arab and Western analysts are united in their description of the form, nature and functionality of the resistance axis.

The most immediate consequence of this unity of perception and analysis is that it skews understanding of the wider and deeper diplomatic nuances and dynamics of the region by ignoring several existing and emerging factors that shape regional diplomacy, including demographics, shifting public opinion and democratization.

The notion of a resistance axis - and by extension a counter-axis - reduces the region's diverse political and ideological forces to neatly defined pro-Iranian and anti-American camps.

While there is more than just a kernel of truth to this description - and there is no denying the fierce rivalry between Iran and the United States - the region's political future is determined by a wider range of factors and state actors like Saudi Arabia, Jordan and even the tiny Persian Gulf states cannot be viewed solely as enablers of American foreign policy.

The Arab Spring, and the expected resulting shift in political and diplomatic orientation, will bring the notion of a resistance axis, and the analytical frameworks that sustain it, under greater scrutiny. In particular, the gradual emergence of Egypt as a political, diplomatic and possibly even ideological power in its own right will significantly complicate regional diplomacy and might conceivably lead to the re-definition of the relationship between Iran and America.

Strategic planning requires a clear definition of goals and means. In this case, the most important question is why does the Islamic Republic of Iran support non-state actors in the region? Officially, Iran supports Lebanese Hezbollah and to a lesser extent Palestinian Hamas for primarily ideological motives and as part of a broader ethical foreign policy which prioritizes values over interests.

Unofficially, Tehran-based foreign policy experts produce a more sophisticated and comprehensive defense of this policy, and one that takes sufficient stock of the balance of power in the region, and the extent to which popular non-state actors can tilt that balance in Iran's favor.

But the gradual emergence of more independent-minded regional powers, and by extension the relative decline of American influence, call into question the wisdom of extending considerable support to non-state actors indefinitely.

Rethinking regional diplomacy
As the noose gradually tightens around Assad's neck, there is increasing indication that influential voices in Tehran are beginning to think about contingency planning. But the essential problem remains Iran's inability to imagine a Syria without the existing power structures and supporting ideology.

A recent interview with the well-informed and well-travelled Iranian lawmaker Sirous Borna Baldaji, which appeared in the influential Iranian Diplomacy website, is indicative of the depth of confusion that prevails in Tehran. Entitled "If Assad goes the Salafis will seize power", the interview is based on Baldaji's extensive recent field research in Syria.

The latter's insinuation that the cutting edge - if not the controlling brain - of the Syrian demonstrators are hardline Salafi extremists, is not only indicative of poor research but lack of imagination in terms of viewing a post-Assad Syria.

Baldaji's argument appears to be that once these so-called Salafis seize control of the reins of power in Damascus they will proceed to limit ties with Iran and cut off the vital support line to Hezbollah. It is an argument that is not only devoid of a deep understanding of Syria's strategic profile, but one that takes insufficient stock of broader regional dynamics.

In view of these regional dynamics, namely the empowerment of potentially pro-Iranian Islamists in Cairo and the emergence of a volatile and inexperienced regime in Tripoli, Iran should look to cultivating deeper ties with these states and by extension de-emphasizing the relationship with non-state actors.

The resistance axis needs to be rethought and reconfigured to adapt to emerging political and strategic developments and ultimately tied to a more lucid definition of Iranian national interests.

If Iran's primary national interest in the region is the expulsion of foreign military forces from the Persian Gulf area, then the emergence of more democratic regimes, whose chief sensitivity is their own public opinion, is supportive of this long-term strategic goal.

From this point of view, the downfall of Assad, however unlikely it may appear at this stage, is not necessarily the disaster imagined by many in Tehran's policymaking circles.

Mahan Abedin is an analyst of Middle East politics.

(Copyright 2011 Asia Times Online (Holdings) Ltd. All rights reserved. Please contact us about sales, syndication and republishing.)
In the above article, he is only telling part of the story. Basically the message is that tehran is not worried at all as it maintains good ties with the MB. Even if Syria becomes democratic, the Iranians will buy their support just like how they have done in Iraq. It just goes to show how weak democracy is. Nevertheless this represents the Iranian strategic viewpoint.

Israel wages war on Iranian scientists
By Mahan Abedin

As the trial of Majid Jamali Fashi, the confessed murderer of Iranian physicist Massoud Ali Mohammadi, gets underway in Tehran, more light has been shed on the secret but intense Israeli war against Iranian scientists.

Amid the confusion, rampant speculation and propaganda, two issues are clear. Foremost, the four-year Israeli assassination campaign exposes the weaknesses in Iranian protective security measures. Second, if the campaign continues apace, Iran will come under increasing pressure to strike back.

Posthumous hero
In many ways, Ali Mohammadi fits the profile of the dozens of


Iranian scientists that have been targeted for recruitment, coercion or in his case assassination by Western and Israeli intelligence services. With a long and distinguished academic career, during which he published 53 research articles in peer-reviewed academic journals, Ali Mohammadi was also engaged in undeclared projects that were clearly of immense interest to intelligence services.

A quantum field theorist and a professor of elementary particle physics at Tehran University, Ali Mohammadi was assassinated by means of a booby-trapped motorbike on January 12, 2010, immediately outside his home in the Gheytariyeh neighborhood of northern Tehran.

Although Ali Mohammadi is not known to have any declared links to Iran's nuclear program or any other sensitive project, it is clear from the trial of his alleged murderer that he was involved in work that was deemed to be of great national importance.

His bereaved wife Mansoureh Karami made an emotional appearance at the trial where she poured scorn on Israel and the terrorist methods employed by the Jewish state's intelligence services and ended by declaring that her husband's only crime was great "love" for and dedication to his country.

Although it is pure speculation, Karami's description of her husband may be a calculated admission by the late Ali Mohammadi's family that the physicist may have been involved in work beyond that of his declared academic job and interests.

In the immediate aftermath of Ali Mohammadi's assassination, there were attempts to link him to the opposition "Green" movement with reports claiming the scientist held "reformist" views and had even signed a petition to that effect. The implication of these essentially speculative reports and rumors was that the Iranian government had arranged the scientist's murder.

But even if Ali Mohammadi had been a reformist and a supporter of the "Green" movement, there is no contradiction between that position and a strong commitment to the Islamic Republic and its goals. Indeed, most reformists and the mainstream sections of the movement would argue the same.

Allegations that Ali Mohammadi had been assassinated by the same government that had employed and nurtured him for decades was never taken seriously by informed observers, analysts and the mainstream Western media. The consensus was that he was somehow connected to sensitive Iranian nuclear or defense programs and had been targeted by Western, or more likely Israeli intelligence services.

The London-based Daily Telegraph ran a story on Israel's secret assassination war against Iranian scientists in February 2009, nearly a year before Ali Mohammadi's assassination.

If Massoud Ali Mohammadi was typical of the type of scientist being targeted by the Israelis, then his confessed killer Majid Jamali Fashi is also typical of the type of agent and saboteur recruited by the Israeli secret service Mossad. Young, versatile and physically daring, he is not known to have been involved in politics. By his own admission, he had received US$120,000 for his services to Israeli intelligence, and that he was promised a further sum of $30,000 for killing Ali Mohammadi, but Fashi claims the Israelis failed to honor their debt.

From the early stages of the trial it appears that Fashi, an Iranian, was recruited at the Israeli consulate in Istanbul (Turkey) and that much of his early tasking and indoctrination took place there. However, he had also met Israeli intelligence officers in Baku (Republic of Azerbaijan) and Thailand. At one stage, he was smuggled into Israel for intensive training and preparation for his assassination campaign inside Iran.

According to his account at his trial, it was inside Israel that Fashi was presented with detailed and in some cases superfluous information on his intended target (including the color and size of the carpet in his home), even though the precise location of the target wasn't revealed to him until three days before the operation.
A mock up of Ali Mohammadi's house was used for training purposes, with Fashi practicing the placement of a booby-trapped motorbike just outside the scientist's house.

From the evidence presented at his trial, it appears that Fashi was a lone operative bereft of a support network inside Tehran. Tasking appears to have been conducted via mobile phone and e-mails to an encrypted laptop. Fashi appears to have received instructions on the assassination immediately before the event. He claims he wasn't aware of the identity of his target until after the assassination.

His claim that he regretted his actions and that he became depressed after he discovered his target's true identity and subsequently refused to carry out more assassinations, thus prompting his Israeli masters to abandon him, must be taken with a pinch of salt. According to the available evidence, Fashi's murderous exploits only came to an end following his identification and arrest by the Iranian authorities.

Science under attack
Asia Time Online's sources in Tehran have confirmed the account presented at the trial, stressing that Israeli intelligence is using highly trained lone operatives to attack Iran's scientific human resources.

Communication methods are kept as simple as possible in the belief that as the operatives are not known to Iranian intelligence, public modes of communication (such as tasking by mobile phone) will not trigger detection, and by the same token more covert methods of communication are likely to alert Iranian intelligence to the activities of these agents.

According to Asia Time Online's sources, Iranian intelligence believes that at least another dozen agents fitting Fashi's profile have been trained by the Israelis and are active inside Tehran.

While maximum efforts are being expended to identify and intercept these agents before they strike, it is virtually inevitable that more Iranian scientists will be killed before Iranian intelligence either gets on top of the problem or more likely manages to deter the Israelis from continuing with the assassination campaign.

The assassination of yet another scientist, Daryoosh Rezainejad, on July 23, highlights the gravity of the problem and the ferocity and determination with which the Israelis are prosecuting their covert war against Iranian scientists. Although not much is known about Rezainejad's undeclared scientific activities, he is likely to have been involved in sensitive projects that many nations believe are aimed at developing nuclear weapons. Iran has consistently assured that its nuclear program is solely for peaceful purposes.

Despite official propaganda, at this stage at least, Iranian intelligence doesn't believe that the United States Central Intelligence Agency is actively involved in the assassination of Iranian scientists. The available evidence suggests that the campaign is devised and directed solely by Israeli intelligence.

But the detailed information that guides these assassinations is believed to come from a variety of sources, effectively representing the combined intelligence-gathering efforts of major Western intelligence services.

The Israelis appear to know all the pertinent details about their targets, and much more besides, including the type and color of their household furniture. While few doubt the efficiency and determination of Israeli intelligence services, the type, extent and scale of the information collected points to the combined efforts of several national intelligence services and appears to suggest that these services have deployed the full extent of their intelligence capability against Iran's scientific infrastructure, especially those components that are linked to national security projects.

For example, the full extent of the targets' social network can only be reliably ascertained (from a distance at least) by mobile phone mapping. This technology in its most sophisticated form, and the technical and analytical expertise that underpins its operation, is believed to reside exclusively under the organizational umbrella of the Anglo-Saxon signals intelligence (sigint) infrastructure, namely America's National Security Agency and Britain's Government Communications Headquarters.

It is not clear at this stage under what conditions and guidelines Western intelligence services are supplying raw data on Iranian scientists to the Israelis and crucially whether these services tacitly approve of the assassination campaign.

Israel's war against Iranian scientists began in January 2007 with the poisoning of nuclear scientist Ardeshir Hosseinpour. The campaign kicked into higher gear with the assassination of Ali Mohammadi in January 2010. In late November 2010, the Israelis assassinated nuclear engineer Majid Shahriari and on the same day an Israeli-trained assassin attempted to kill senior nuclear scientist Fereydoon Abbasi-Davani.

In a calculated snub to Israeli and Western intelligence, the latter was appointed head of Iran's Atomic Energy Organization in February 2011.

Israeli intelligence claimed its latest victim, Daryoosh Rezainejad in late July. Rezainejad was shot dead in front of his wife and child outside a kindergarten in eastern Tehran.

The style and manner of all these assassinations, in particular the latest one, highlight Iran's shockingly poor protective security procedures. It appears that highly important scientists involved in sensitive work are allowed to go by their daily lives without any obvious security or hindrance, thereby making them easy targets for Israeli assassination teams.

While plans are afoot to introduce standardized protective security procedures for senior Iranian scientists, implementation will be difficult for two overriding reasons. First, the nature of Iranian culture, particularly its focus on socialization and the importance of extensive family and friendship ties, is a barrier to protective security measures, which necessarily demand a measure of social isolation and apprehension. Second, protective security can potentially blow these scientists' cover and alert friends and family to their undeclared work.

It would appear that the most effective form of protecting the lives of Iran's most talented is deterrence at source, given the difficulties involved in introducing standardized protective security measures.

While the Israelis can't realistically expect to seriously damage Iran's nuclear and broader scientific infrastructure through a campaign of assassination, it is believed they are hoping to unsettle Iran's elite scientific community by sowing fear and terror, with a view to forcing some of these men and women to abandon their work.

Given the stakes involved, and the revulsion registered across Iranian society at the murder of the country's best brains, it is only a matter of time before Iran is forced to strike back.

Mahan Abedin is an analyst of Middle East politics.
Mahan ssays Iran will strike back against Iran. I guess the war of words continues between Iran and Israel.


-------------------
Hardeep Singh Puri the UNSC president representing India. He said today that Syria can avert crisis by initiating multiparty reforms. I think India really needs to wake up and smell the flavour of the coffee. Assad is finished. Either way, no one is going to sit by even after reforms are implemented, because they have lost 1000's of lives in such brutal ways.

Speaking privately, he says that it was obvious that resolution 1973 is an attempt for regime change. The same in Syria. But India is getting a lot of flak by some analysts for not supporting democracy.
devesh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5129
Joined: 17 Feb 2011 03:27

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by devesh »

Israel's behavior is cause for concern here. how would we react if our best scientific brains were being killed off by some foreign country???
shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7100
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

^^ I guess they would reply and say how would you like it if that said country is threatening to "wipe Israel off the map"...
devesh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5129
Joined: 17 Feb 2011 03:27

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by devesh »

that is just an excuse. if Iran stops doing that, I don't think Israel will stop what it's doing.
shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7100
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

fact is Iran wants to go nuclear and is working towards that goal. So Israel, GCC and the west is doing what it has to do to stop it.
JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7143
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by JE Menon »

How would India respond?

I suspect differently than Israel is alleged to be responding. We would probably send a dossier and insist that talks start (or continue) as the situation may be. In any event, chances are that we would not threaten to wipe off any foreign country off the map.
shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7100
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Threats to our scientists are not new. The western intelligence services are suspected to be behind killing of some of nuclear scientist(s). Our scientist was killed in the BLR IISc attack already. Security for them was ramped up a little. Our response really depends on the issue.

----------------------------------
The Israeli take on the news of KSA nuke cooperation with TSP. The Israeli embassy in Cairo was raided by protesters today. The Israeli ambassador was evacuated.

In face of Iran threat, Saudi Arabia mulls nuclear cooperation with Pakistan
Nuclear nerves over Iran suggest closer ties between the Saudis and Pakistan.
By Yossi Melman Tags: Iran nuclear Egypt Mossad


For a former high-level official in Israel's security services, the news this week was not upsetting - that Iran on its own had produced new, advanced nuclear centrifuges.

According to a report of the International Atomic Energy Agency, Iran has begun to install the centrifuges in its uranium enrichment facility in Natanz. But the high-level source noted that development and production of the new centrifuges began more than seven years ago. That does not speak of a great technological capability on Iran's part.

Israeli intelligence, like its American counterpart, views 2014 or 2015 as the date when Iran will be able to build nuclear weapons, says the source - if it wants to and no one blocks it. In Saudi Arabia, in contrast, they are a bit more disturbed by the developments in Iran. An American Department of Energy delegation visited Riyad and met with Dr. Hashim Yamani, who heads the King Abdullah City for Atomic and Renewable Energy. The talks followed a memorandum of cooperation between the two countries that was signed in August 2008.

Saudi Arabia wants to equip itself with nuclear reactors to generate electricity. The United States is interested in selling Riyad reactors for two reasons - fat contracts worth billions of dollars for the American nuclear energy industry and there's the somewhat covert aspect: Supplying the reactors allows Washington to keep close tabs on nuclear developments in Saudi Arabia. The American administration is concerned that with a nuclear program for civilian uses, Saudi Arabia would actually like to prepare the infrastructure so it could switch to producing nuclear weapons relatively quickly, should Iran possess such weapons.

The French website Intelligence Online reports that the Saudi royal family has been divided over this issue for years. Its defense minister, Sultan Bin Abdul Aziz, and the country's former intelligence chief, Turki Bin Faisal, favor the preparation of a secret nuclear program for military uses, in cooperation with a Sunni Muslim ally - Pakistan, which possesses dozens of atomic bombs. This would counterbalance Iran's secret military plans.

Saudi Arabia reportedly funded Pakistan's nuclear weapons program in return for Pakistan's promise to aid the monarchy in this area if need be. According to a 2004 report, the Saudi deputy defense minister visited the Pakistani nuclear center in Kahuta, which produces bombs. Intelligence Online says Pakistani nuclear scientists recently visited Saudi Arabia - as pilgrims to Mecca, who made use of their visit for a work meeting with, among others, Prince Bandar Bin Sultan, the head of the National Security Council and former ambassador to the United States.

Bandar is considered to be among those encouraging the nuclear connection with Pakistan to put his country on a secret path to nuclear weapons. To this end he visited Kazakhstan a few weeks ago and met with the directors of the state-owned company that produces uranium, Kazatomprom.

In contrast to the hawks in Riyad, there is also a group, headed by Foreign Minister Saud al Faisal and Interior Minister Naif Bin Abdul Aziz, that opposes establishing a secret nuclear military program reliant on Pakistan and prefers to be defended against Iran under the American nuclear umbrella.

Egyptian permission

The Egyptian newspaper Rose al Yusuf reported last month that Ashraf Marwan was an agent of the Mossad security service, and that he had warned Israel of the coming 1973 war, which is why former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak ordered his assassination. Marwan fell to his death from the balcony of his London apartment in April 2007. It was supposed to look like suicide. The Rose al Yusuf story is comprehensive, relying mostly on reports from the Israeli media, and cites the decision of Justice (ret. ) Theodore Orr, who mediated the much-publicized dispute between former Mossad chief Zvi Zamir and Eli Zeira, the head of Military Intelligence during the 1973 war. The significance of the report lies not in the details but in the fact that it was published at all. This is the first time a well-known and respected Egyptian newspaper has dared to publish a story backing up Israeli reports on the subject. However, my colleague Jack Khoury, who translated the story from Arabic to Hebrew, emphasizes that the newspaper, formerly a mouthpiece for the Mubarak government, is exhibiting signs of Islamization now that the former president is on trial.

In this context it is important to note again that this column repeatedly held that Marwan was assassinated by the Egyptian secret service after Zeira intentionally exposed him as a double agent. Zvi Zamir, Brig. Gen. Amos Gilboa and Col. Yossi Langotsky sued Zeira over this leak. A sluggish police investigation eventually led to findings being turned over to the attorney general. Yehuda Weinstein, who has been deliberating on the matter for years, is in no hurry to reach a decision in one of the most serious cases in the history of Israeli intelligence - where a senior agent died because an irresponsible general sought to absolve himself of responsibility for intelligence failures in the Yom Kippur War.
The reason why the Israeli's are not surprised by KSA going nuclear is because they have already known for years that KSA has nukes and in fact they already threatened to use them against israel when they were close to war.

My comments on the matter: Link
abhischekcc
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4277
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: If I can’t move the gods, I’ll stir up hell
Contact:

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by abhischekcc »

ramana wrote:
abhischekcc wrote:Hi Guys,

Need a little help in identifying a book. There was a reference to it some time ago in some discussion on the forum.

It was a book on the 1965 war, and detailed how the west had war gamed the whole scenario and planned, etc. K Subrahmaniam had seen the book in a bookshop on a visit to London, and the reference was to an article/letter he had written to a newspaper about this incident.

TIA.

If it available online, could you post the URL? If you have a soft copy, I will give my email address to post it.
its:

Crisis Game by Sidney Giffin

Amazon Link:
LINK


KS article:

1965 War decided fate of Indian Sub-continent

Thanks ramana
vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5836
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vishvak »

Mob attacks Israeli embassy in Cairo, envoy flees from rediff.com
The attack on the Israeli embassy came after a sermon by a Muslim priest at the iconic Tahrir Square on Friday.

The priest proclaimed, "It would be shame on the Egyptian people if they forget their revolution."
Protesters torched police trucks and attacked the regional police headquarters after the army intervened to disperse the violent mob.
shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7100
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

The protesterss who raided the Israeli embassy weren't that political. Apparently most of them were football fans angry for some reasons...
The Muslim brotherhood and salafists were quite embarrased and said they were not involved in todays raid on israeli embassy.

Meanwhile talk of the town is that Supreme armed forces council is going to use the incident as a pretext to postpone elections
Post Reply