Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 2011

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 11 Sep 2011 06:07

nuggets from TFT

Minar-e-Pakistan soosai centre

Reported in Jinnah the central symbol of Pakistan's freedom Minar-e-Pakistan in Lahore commemorating the first demand for an independent homeland for the Muslims of India was locked to citizens because most tried to climb on it and then jump from there. The tower was locked in 2004 when 'pointed' suicides tended to tarnish its glory. It seemed that suicides tried to cast aspersion on the minar. The caretaker said the surrounding lake too would be filled because people were now trying to drown themselves in it.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 11 Sep 2011 06:15

jrjrao wrote: As I said, with stink bombs like Perkovich sitting in the big US stink tanks, it is no wonder that 10 years down the line, the war on terror has gone down so bleepingly well for the US.

For all i know , these Cranegie Endowment guys - Ashley Tellis and Perkovich are trying to play good cop - bad cop.

ParasuramanS · Post by **ParasuramanS** » 11 Sep 2011 06:36

In the macro view, the United States is in an irreversible downward trajectory and India is in an irreversible upward trajectory. The G Perkovich's of this world do not matter in this grand scheme. No need to get upset and give more air time than necessary.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 11 Sep 2011 07:11

Pakistan seeks foreign help after monsoon floods

The recent rains in Sindh are estimated to have destroyed up to 13 percent of the total cotton crop, government and textile industry officials said on Friday. Agriculture is the mainstay of Pakistan's fragile economy and cotton and textiles account for more than 50 percent of the country's total exports.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 11 Sep 2011 08:33

Perkovich prooves the truth behind Vinash Kaale Vpirit Buddhi or Mottie Mutt Taan Laggu Sutt. From henceforth, a new Title Poaqerbitch shall be bestowed for such Khujliwallas .

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 11 Sep 2011 11:20

Iqbal's Letter to Jinnah
Excerpt

The Muslim has begun to feel that he has been going down and down during the last 200 years. Ordinarily he believes that his poverty is due to Hindu money-lending or capitalism. The perception that it is equally due to foreign rule has not yet fully come to him. But it is bound to come. The atheistic socialism of Jawaharlal is not likely to receive much response from the Muslims. The question therefore is: how is it possible to solve the problem of Muslim poverty? And the whole future of the League depends on the League’s activity to solve this question. If the League can give no such promises I am sure that Muslim masses will remain indifferent to it as before.

Happily there is a solution in the enforcement of the Law of Islam and its further development in the light of modern ideas. After a long and careful study of Islamic Law I have come to the conclusion that if this system of law is properly understood and applied, at last the right to subsistence is secured to everybody. But the enforcement and development of the Shariat of Islam is impossible in this country without a free Muslim state or states. This has been my honest conviction for many years and I still believe this to be the only way to solve the problem of bread for Muslims as well as to secure a peaceful India. If such a thing is impossible in India the only other alternative is a civil war which as a matter of fact has been going on for some time in the shape of Hindu-Muslim riots. {So, here is Iqbal admitting that the riots are because of non-implementation of Shariat. The implications are obvious}

I fear that in certain parts of the country, for example N.W. India, Palestine may be repeated. Also the insertion of Jawaharlal’s socialism into the body-politic of Hinduism is likely to cause much bloodshed among the Hindus themselves. The issue between social democracy and Brahmanism is not dissimilar to the one between Brahmanism and Buddhism. Whether the fate of socialism will be the same as the fate of Buddhism in India I cannot say. But it is clear to my mind that if Hinduism accepts social democracy it must necessarily cease to be Hinduism. For Islam the acceptance of social democracy in some suitable form and consistent with the legal principles of Islam is not a revolution but a return to the original purity of Islam.
The modern problems therefore are easier to solve for the Muslims than for the Hindus. But as I have said above in order to make it possible for Muslim India to solve the problems it is necessary to redistribute the country and to provide one or more Muslim states with absolute majorities. Don’t you think that the time for such a demand has already arrived? Perhaps this is the best reply you can give to the atheistic socialism of Jawaharlal Nehru.

parsuram · Post by **parsuram** » 11 Sep 2011 12:01

Rudra JI: Namashkar, Sat Sri Aakal etc:

Re:

Parsuram-ji, if I'm not wrong, we didn't have this many threads on BRF back in the day... Strategic Issues forum had maybe a single page index that held all the discussions! I really think this sort of extreme diversification has only increased the SNR, all things considered. Everything is "OT" in one thread or the other, so no "T" is completely explored.

JMT.

Thank you for your remarks. I have been away from the forums for a couple of years or so, and after your note took the time to look at all that is going on BR Forums. It is indeed remarkable, the bredth of subjects, and the threads that carry them. I am both amazed & impressed. But as you say, there is fragmentation, so perforce, there is necessary spillover, such as chinese efforts into the paki terrorist thread. Then again, there is no need to make another thread for the purpose of focusing on joint paki-prc antin Indian strategy & efforts. I am sorry for having intervened in the discussion on these matters. Clearly, this needs to be discussed and evaluated. I will post/contribute without being unnecessarily counterproductive & abrasive. see you again in the funny papers.

PS I put a note in the physics thread you might look at. I have not had a response on it yet.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 11 Sep 2011 13:04

r_subramanian wrote:Is Russia really showing interest in financing Pakistani section of Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline?
There are reports that Pakistan may approach Russia and China to help with financing of Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline. The cost is estimated to be at least US$ 1.5 billion. See [url=hllp://tribune.com.pk/story/247922/pipe-dreams-sanctions-determine-pakistans-response-to-irans-offer/]here[/url] for a news report on this.
My question is how serious is Russia in getting involved? Would such an involvement be based on some strategic considerations or purely economic?

After observing Pakistani sourced news items that say "X, or X or Z is going to invest in Pakistan" I have now come to the conclusion that if the news report if from Pakistan it usually means that it is a lie/bluff directed at the Pakistani public to make them feel that al continuez to be vel. It is only when the news comes from outside Pakistan that you can begin to think about believing it.

Pakistani relationships with non Pakis whose money/arms they want is like Perkovich describes in his idiotic article linked by jrj above.

A Pakistani taxi driver recently volunteered that Pakistan was a good country
but that a few hundred Taliban extremists were ruining it for everyone. He then
volunteered that the United States says it is Pakistan’s friend, “but friendship
is based on trust. If you are my friend and trust me, then you do not come into
my house in the middle of the night without telling me and shoot someone.”
He was of course referring to the raid on Osama bin Laden. “This is also very
bad for the army. People say ‘you are the great Pakistani Army but how could
the Americans get into our house and shoot someone and you stay asleep and
don’t even know that they have come until after they have left?’” All of this has
made Pakistanis very angry at the United States, the man exclaimed.

So you have a Paki meeting a Russian and asks if Russian will fund the pipeline. Russian says "Ok we'll look at it" out of politness. Paki says "Russia to fund pipeline".

parsuram · Post by **parsuram** » 11 Sep 2011 13:26

Going by the basics of Arth shastra & Kanik's niti shastra, Russia and Afghanistan are India's natural allies agaist the pakis and the prcees. Overtly or covertly, India needs to cultivate and intensify its relations with the Russians and the Afghans.

Upendra · Post by **Upendra** » 11 Sep 2011 13:40

Indian election commission asks ECP to improve credibility http://tribune.com.pk/story/249811/indi ... edibility/

A visiting delegation from the Indian election commission has advised its Pakistani counterpart to ensure greater credibility in the electoral process to improve voter turnout. The two countries decided to share their experiences to learn from each other after the recent thaw in bilateral relations.

Indian Chief Election Commissioner SY Qureshi told the Pakistani officials that Indian officials closely monitor election campaigns during a visit to the commission’s head office on Saturday. “Every political party has to maintain an account of all its political activities which is directly monitored by the commission. We keep a check on the finances of political parties,” he said.

“We make videos of public meetings and our auditors crosscheck the expenses they claim to have incurred.”

In Pakistan, every registered political party is bound by law to file its statements every year, but there is no mechanism to verify the claims. Indian election officials told their Pakistani counterparts that the commission verifies statements of accounts of all party members with the help of income tax officials which makes it difficult for them to conceal information.

The Indian election commission runs a perpetual public awareness campaign to encourage voter participation, contrary to the practice in Pakistan, where campaigns are launched just before elections. “Once people have faith in the electoral system, the turnout will improve,” An ECP official said, quoting a member of the delegation. ECP officials have been invited to India by the delegation for a first-hand experience.

The ECP will hold its 4th consultative meeting with political parties on electoral rolls on September 13, 2011, stated a press release. Secretary ECP Ishtiak Ahmed Khan said the commission is taking steps to make the electoral process more effective, free, fair and credible. Since political parties are key stakeholders, an open and transparent approach is essential to foster a feeling of inclusiveness in the electoral process, reads the statement.

Now, that the ECP has been given more financial and administrative autonomy after the 18th constitutional amendment, it may be better placed to act on the Indian delegation’s advice.

Shirk!!! Abosulte shirk! Kufr Indians teaching pakistan about elections, elections are a western conspiracy, pakistan doesnt need elections, Death to elections

Upendra · Post by **Upendra** » 11 Sep 2011 14:09

Rupesh wrote:nuggets from TFT

Minar-e-Pakistan soosai centre

Reported in Jinnah the central symbol of Pakistan's freedom Minar-e-Pakistan in Lahore commemorating the first demand for an independent homeland for the Muslims of India was locked to citizens because most tried to climb on it and then jump from there. The tower was locked in 2004 when 'pointed' suicides tended to tarnish its glory. It seemed that suicides tried to cast aspersion on the minar. The caretaker said the surrounding lake too would be filled because people were now trying to drown themselves in it.

Kufrs are behind this move, pakistanis are muslims and muslims dont commit suicide. pakistanis only want to meet the most pure purelander jinnah, who is sitting at top of the minar and calling them to commit direct action. This is a western conspiracy, raymond davis is killing purelanders and throwing them in lakes. Send freedom bombers to this gate and blast it open.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 11 Sep 2011 14:31

Im Reading The haj written by Leon Uris, today, and i found a few gems that would help us in understanding both Pakistan and Islam. Leon Uris wrote about the Plaestine Israeli conflict. Although Pakistan, is not arab world, it has almost reached that point.

Here is a very poignant excerpt from the book, said by Haj Ibrahim to Gideon, " Never extend us a mercy that you will never receive in return"
our useful idiots need to better understand this..

dada · Post by **dada** » 11 Sep 2011 14:55

# SShridhar /Iqbal's letter to Jinnah

Problems Perceived by Iqbal
=====================
Problem of bread is becoming more and more acute
Muslims are going down & down Economically/becoming Impoverished for the last 200 years(1937-1737)

Causes of above Problems
===================
Capitalism
Hindu Money Lending

Proposed Solution
=============
develop the law of islam in the light of modern ideas
enforce law of islam
since enforcement of islamic law is impossible in hindu majority india
we need free muslim states or free muslim majority states to enforce this law
so we need to redistribute this country(india) !!

Other generalisations
--------------------
modern problems( of hunger/poverty/economics) can be more easily solved by muslims than hindus because they are mentally & intellectually equipped with the "LAW OF ISLAM" ?
=====================

The Thought Process of this Islamo-Poet is really Amazing
He saw the connection between "islamic law" & "muslim economic conditions" ?
The Letter is dated May 1937 & Iqbal died soon after few months.
What is even more amazing that the Barrister Brain of Mr Jinnah agreed with this Poetic Logic

Was "Economics" really at the Heart of the "Partition of India" ?

Upendra · Post by **Upendra** » 11 Sep 2011 15:18

dada wrote:# SShridhar /Iqbal's letter to Jinnah

Problems Perceived by Iqbal
=====================
Problem of bread is becoming more and more acute
Muslims are going down & down Economically/becoming Impoverished for the last 200 years(1937-1737)

Causes of above Problems
===================
Capitalism
Hindu Money Lending

Proposed Solution
=============
develop the law of islam in the light of modern ideas
enforce law of islam
since enforcement of islamic law is impossible in hindu majority india
we need free muslim states or free muslim majority states to enforce this law
so we need to redistribute this country(india) !!

Other generalisations
--------------------
modern problems( of hunger/poverty/economics) can be more easily solved by muslims than hindus because they are mentally & intellectually equipped with the "LAW OF ISLAM" ?
=====================

The Thought Process of this Islamo-Poet is really Amazing
He saw the connection between "islamic law" & "muslim economic conditions" ?
The Letter is dated May 1937 & Iqbal died soon after few months.
What is even more amazing that the Barrister Brain of Mr Jinnah agreed with this Poetic Logic

Was "Economics" really at the Heart of the "Partition of India" ?

Its the same old argument, some problem in muslim society blame it on others [hindus, jews, zionists, west], demonize the other and attack it, while the problem remains unsolved.

dada · Post by **dada** » 11 Sep 2011 15:49

# upendra

The Whole Muslim Economy was "Rentier Economy"
The Forefathers of these islamo chaps invaded-slaughtered-raped foreign Countries & Build Empires !
And the Descendents of these islamo chaps merely "lived off the property" accumulated thru Rents !
A large % of the Rent collected was used to maintain an Army (to be used to brutally crush any dissent-uprisings by the militarily subjugated locals etc)

Is this the so called "LAW OF ISLAM" which Iqbal felt could be enforced ONLY in STATES which are purely muslim or muslim majority ? . Organised-Random Violence constitutes the heart of the Law of islam. All Problems are sought to be solved by this Approach

We all know about the impact of the failure of 1857 events on the muslims of the indian subcontinent.

arun · Post by **arun** » 11 Sep 2011 16:17

The un-uniformed Jihadi’s created by the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to target India and other countries have turned on their mentors, the uniformed Jihadi’s of the military of Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Dawn reports that an advertisement placed by the Government of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan in the Wall Street Journal declares that the Pakistani Army also has lost 2,795 soldiers while 8,671 soldiers have been wounded. The advertisement also declares that there have been 3,486 demonstrations of the IEDology of Pakistan and 283 demonstrations of the IED Mubarak variant of the IEDology of Pakistan:

Pakistan reaches out to US on 9/11 anniversary

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 11 Sep 2011 16:31

dada wrote:Was "Economics" really at the Heart of the "Partition of India" ?

'Economics' of the few elite ? Yes. 'Economics' of the newly-proposed Muslim nation as a whole ? Most certainly No.

The leaders of the INC produced white papers on the then prevailing economy, how to improve economy in an independent Bharat etc. Muslim League would have none of it. They concentrated, instead, on violence, cunning and opportunistic Islamism. These traits were carried forward into the two newly created entities too. The result is obvious. Indian leaders might have made mistakes in choosing the road to attain their economic goals, but none could deny that they had lofty goals and never lost sight of them even in adversity. The ML and Pakistani leaders were busily immersed in establishing an enduring hostility with India, inciting hatred and violence amongst its masses towards India and forging alliances that dragged it more and more only into doom.

dada · Post by **dada** » 11 Sep 2011 16:59

# Sridhar

Quote: "They concentrated, instead, on violence, cunning and opportunistic Islamism"

For muslims, all problems at all levels from the Individual to the Collective Social (irrespective of their nature) have military solutions ! Get yourself a good military training + a good weapon (which you can handle with professional ease) & solve all your problems ! WOW !!
Is it surprising that muslims invest a lot of resources in military matters ?

Somebody mentioned the other day that when muslims are asked about their heroes , they all & always mention the names of individuals who have been part of army-military etc. You wont find a single "non-military individuals associated with science,literature etc as their heroes / role models.

military is just a term standing for "organised-focussed violence" The role of islam & all related aspects including shariah in producing a militarised society-minds demands intense study. Obsession with military aspect is a mental habit that will NOT go away so easily. We have to deal with it with STEELY RESOLVE.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 11 Sep 2011 18:15

India defeats Pakistan (4-2) to win First Asian Hockey Champions Trophy (started by tallel fliend of bakis)

NEW DELHI: Indian hockey team overcame arch-rivals Pakistan to win the first edition of the Asian Champions Trophy hockey tournament on Sunday.

India, with a blend of experience and youth in the team, beat Pakistan 4-2 via penalty shootout in the summit clash.

India have surprised everybody in the tournament and in their last group tie came back from 0-2 to draw the match against Pakistan which catapulted them to the final.

Indian forwards performed well in the tournament and that was reflected in the +7 goal difference that the team enjoys in the league stage.

India's newly-appointed coach Michael Nobbs has tasted success in his first major assignment.

Tamang · Post by **Tamang** » 11 Sep 2011 19:23

India beat Pakistan to win Asian Champions Trophy

The high-voltage summit clash was marred by Pakistan coach's unwarranted action of constantly abusing Indian players from the roof of the stadium. Whenever there was an infringement from the Indian side, he used the 'F' word liberally. And whenever the umpires blew against India, he hollered 'Thank You'.

sum · Post by **sum** » 11 Sep 2011 21:00

The high-voltage summit clash was marred by Pakistan coach's unwarranted action of constantly abusing Indian players from the roof of the stadium.

What was the coach doing on the roof of the stadium?

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 11 Sep 2011 21:28

what do you expect of monkeys

archan · Post by **archan** » 11 Sep 2011 21:39

krishnan wrote:what do you expect of monkeys

What do you have against monkeys? PITA should protest against this unfair treatment met to them.

shivajisisodia · Post by **shivajisisodia** » 11 Sep 2011 22:05

On the 10th anniversary of 9/11, I think this joke is worth repeating, even if it has been told before.

At 8.00 AM East Coast Time (New York Time), President Bush was interrupted while he was driving down for a school appearance in Florida and was informed that the Pakistani strongman, Gen Musharraf was on the line.

"Do I have to, do I really have to," asked Bush in a begging tone, "I hate that MF".

Upon being informed that Gen Musharraf was calling to express sympathies for some terrorist attack against US interests, Bush decided to take the phone call, mumbling to himself, "Goddamnit, where is it this time, Somalia? Yemen?"

"Good Morning, Mr. President ,", came the heavily accented voice on the line.

"Good Morning, General, or shall I call you, Generallismo, hah, hah, hah," responded Bush.

"I am extremely sorry to learn about the dastardly and cowardly attacks on the World Trade Centers in NY," said the good General, "let me assure you,that the Generals in Pakistan, and even some Lt Generals are all with you and the American people in this hour of grief".

"What attacks, what World Trade Center, what are you talking about Generalissmo, hah.....hah.......hah, ", asked Bush

"Oh, what time is it there right now, Mr. President," asked the good General, again in a heavily accented English.

"About five past 8 in the morning, General, hah, hah, hah,", responded Bush.

The line immediately and suddenly went dead.

"Damn that General, what a joker he would be, if he werent such a tyrant", said Bush with an expression on his face that one normally reserves when one smells rotten eggs.

"Check it out, make sure it was just a joke and there is nothing going on for real, Charlie," said Bush to his assistant.

A little while later around 8.15 AM, Charlie received a call from a Lt General Rashid, who claimed he was the Chief of Staff of General Musharraf. He profusely apologised on behalf of the general, informing Charlie that the good General had made the previous phone call under the strong influence of alcohol. That sounded very credible and Charlie dropped the matter, since the President was already deep in thought, trying to spell a word for the 3rd graders during his elementary school visit in Florida.

At 8.50 AM, the same day, while the President was still having difficulty spelling words with the 3rd graders, Charlie received a phone call from the Secret Service that a plane had crashed into the World Trade Center in New York, and the precise time of the attack was 8.46 AM.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Sep 2011 22:27

sum wrote:
The high-voltage summit clash was marred by Pakistan coach's unwarranted action of constantly abusing Indian players from the roof of the stadium.
What was the coach doing on the roof of the stadium?

He thought it was the Minar -e- Pakistan in case his team lost.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 11 Sep 2011 23:26

Does anyone know what happened to the below - somehow, its just very possible, that the Pakistanis knew specifics weeks before the actual events...

From wikipedia....

On September 6, 2001, a freshman from a class of Pakistani immigrants at New Utrecht High School in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn was overheard by his English teacher, Antoinette DiLorenzo, to say that the two World Trade Center towers "won't be standing there next week." After DiLorenzo reported the incident on September 13, the youth and his older brother were questioned by the FBI and local police. According to police, the youth admitted to making the comment but he and his brother said he had been kidding

Bhaskar · Post by **Bhaskar** » 11 Sep 2011 23:48

Anindya wrote:Does anyone know what happened to the below - somehow, its just very possible, that the Pakistanis knew specifics weeks before the actual events...

From wikipedia....
On September 6, 2001, a freshman from a class of Pakistani immigrants at New Utrecht High School in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn was overheard by his English teacher, Antoinette DiLorenzo, to say that the two World Trade Center towers "won't be standing there next week." After DiLorenzo reported the incident on September 13, the youth and his older brother were questioned by the FBI and local police. According to police, the youth admitted to making the comment but he and his brother said he had been kidding

A paki is a paki is a paki is a paki

Most Americans believe that many such muslim dominated areas in America knew about the plot to bring down WTC prior to 9/11.
Here is the story btw for your quote : http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2 ... -tale.html

Moreover, according to police, the youth confirmed having made the Sept. 6 statement about the towers. At the moment he did so, his older brother elbowed him, said he had been "kidding," and the youth in question agreed.
....
The FBI placed the boy's family under surveillance but, according to sources, does not see a connection to the plot to blow up the towers.
....
There are only three possibilities. One, the youth was clairvoyant. Two, the youth, knowing about the 1993 bombing, was just venting anger in a particularly timely way. Three, word of the attack on the World Trade Center was rumored in his neighborhood and he heard about it.

Akshut · Post by **Akshut** » 12 Sep 2011 01:23

Paki IT industry(the one about Information Technology) affected by Global meltdown

The Pakistan economy, in general, and its Information Technology (IT) industry in particular, is threatened by all these global factors, relying mainly on export trade. It is worth noting that Pakistan IT industry was equally affected by earlier US dotcom bubble burst in 2000 and the global financial crisis of 2008.

I still remember that Pakistan IT industry was hit hard by both previous setbacks. Many IT firms were left with no option but to lay-off heavily. Some of them even closed or limited their operations. The IT industry kept on stressing to the government to expedite public sector automation plan as a stimulus package and save industry as well as jobs of young IT graduates. No doubt, the government responded positively and initiated many public sector projects, both in the central, as well as at the provincial levels. Also, the federal government constituted a Task Force on Information and Communication Technologies under the aegis of Pakistan Software Export Board (PSEB) with a mandate of formulating a comprehensive IT policy for next decade. This Task Force, which was co-chaired by the author, completed its task in the given time as well as framework.

Also, the comparatively low barriers to enter business have made Pakistan’s IT industry cost-effective, attracting major customers on all important global destinations. High taxation on foreign firms working in India in the field of software development has already opened markets for Pakistan.

Pakistan IT Industry revenues are exceeding $2 billion a year and future projections suggest that the industry revenues would reach $11 billion by 2016, as top five IT firms including NetSol are seeing their sales growth at an annual rate of over 30%.

It is worth noting that Pakistan IT industry is preferred worldwide on two counts: quality of the product and delivery of the product within the prescribed timeframe. Further, the intelligence, hard work and commitment on the part of young IT professionals, besides the low cost of doing business has also won the confidence of many international customers preferring outsourcing manpower within Pakistan.

Nobody can beat these Pakjabi blabbermouths in providing high quality lulz.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 12 Sep 2011 01:32

@dada^^^: " The Whole Muslim Economy was "Rentier Economy"

Rentier is another word for parasite. Not that there is anything wrong with that (as Seinfeld might have said), you suck blood and you need the host to survive. Army ants and slave ants is the business model.

Kamboja · Post by **Kamboja** » 12 Sep 2011 01:49

SSridhar wrote:Iqbal's Letter to Jinnah
'... Also the insertion of Jawaharlal’s socialism into the body-politic of Hinduism is likely to cause much bloodshed among the Hindus themselves. The issue between social democracy and Brahmanism is not dissimilar to the one between Brahmanism and Buddhism. Whether the fate of socialism will be the same as the fate of Buddhism in India I cannot say. But it is clear to my mind that if Hinduism accepts social democracy it must necessarily cease to be Hinduism. For Islam the acceptance of social democracy in some suitable form and consistent with the legal principles of Islam is not a revolution but a return to the original purity of Islam.'

V. interesting, but discussion would be OT here.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 12 Sep 2011 07:13

parsuram wrote:Rudra JI: Namashkar, Sat Sri Aakal etc:

PS I put a note in the physics thread you might look at. I have not had a response on it yet.

Really enjoyed your post and commented on it in that thread. It's very good to see you posting again and I hope you will stay around!

Cheers,
Rudradev

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 12 Sep 2011 07:15

terrorism is Pakistan’s job

The original title of this article was too funny to post.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 12 Sep 2011 07:25

Wiki: China helping Pak upgrade its missiles

panda · Post by **panda** » 12 Sep 2011 08:38

SSridhar wrote: .....

1) The atheistic socialism of Jawaharlal is not likely to receive much response from the Muslims. ....

2) Happily there is a solution in the enforcement of the Law of Islam and its further development in the light of modern ideas.

3) After a long and careful study of Islamic Law I have come to the conclusion that if this system of law is properly understood and applied, at last the right to subsistence is secured to everybody.

4) Also the insertion of Jawaharlal’s socialism into the body-politic of Hinduism is likely to cause much bloodshed among the Hindus themselves. The issue between social democracy and Brahmanism is not dissimilar to the one between Brahmanism and Buddhism. ..... But it is clear to my mind that if Hinduism accepts social democracy it must necessarily cease to be Hinduism.

5) For Islam the acceptance of social democracy in some suitable form and consistent with the legal principles of Islam is not a revolution but a return to the original purity of Islam.

6) The modern problems therefore are easier to solve for the Muslims than for the Hindus.

What Iqbal is saying, I think, is that modern social democracy necessarily demands some form of equality among the mango aadmis. Therefore, Hinduism, with its inherent cast discrimination, will be quite uncomfortable with social democracy. He expected the Brahmans to rise with violence at the very thought of equality since they think of themselves as superior. According to his thoughts, Islam was more compatible with modern ideas as it was devoid of cast discrimination.

We have all seen how wrong he was. Probably because he put way too much importance on the role of religion and he made way too many generalizations. But, his biggest mistake, I think, is that he mistook followers of religion for being a monolithic entity.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Sep 2011 08:56

panda wrote: What Iqbal is saying, I think, is that modern social democracy necessarily demands some form of equality among the mango aadmis. Therefore, Hinduism, with its inherent cast discrimination, will be quite uncomfortable with social democracy. He expected the Brahmans to rise with violence at the very thought of equality since they think of themselves as superior. According to his thoughts, Islam was more compatible with modern ideas as it was devoid of cast discrimination.

We have all seen how wrong he was. Probably because he put way too much importance on the role of religion and he made way too many generalizations. But, his biggest mistake, I think, is that he mistook followers of religion for being a monolithic entity.

In fact the Muslim elite who went to Pakhanastan ended up doing exactly what Iqbal thought the Brahmins would do. It became a truism for Pakhanalanders to say that upper castes are doing blablabla in India even as the Paki elite did all of that and more. Ironic.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 12 Sep 2011 09:04

ramana wrote:
sum wrote: What was the coach doing on the roof of the stadium?

He thought it was the Minar -e- Pakistan in case his team lost.

ramana saar, I never pegged you as a proponent of deadpan humor!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 12 Sep 2011 09:09

India, Pakistan to continue dialogue process

Even as investigators trace the roots of Wednesday's Delhi High Court blast, India and Pakistan will shortly begin work on continuing with their dialogue process on all outstanding issues, said government sources.

Activity on initiating the second round of post-Mumbai attack talks will start after the visit by Pakistan Commerce Minister Makhdoom Amin Fahim towards this month end when officials expect a big ticket announcement {MFN status to India. Pakistan will officially never use that term even if it grants India that status} to expand trade ties.

With External Affairs Minister S.M. Krishna slated to visit Pakistan in the second half of next year, meaning by June end, officials said both sides would be looking at dates “between now and then” to begin talks on eight subjects.

Officials expect talks between Mr. Fahim and Commerce Minister Anand Sharma to set the tone for the next round of comprehensive talks that will cover subjects from terrorism to culture. After mentioning its desire to extend the most favoured nation status to India several times in the past, Mr. Fahim is expected to declare his government's intention in this regard during this visit. {Pakistan will once again only express its intention ? Why express that intention so many times without any concrete movement ?}

Pakistan has also announced plans to move over from the positive list to negative list as far as trade with India is concerned by next month. Currently, Pakistan has given access to 1,940 product lines on its positive list and has 12,000 on the negative list. But half of the items on the positive list are not exported by India or it imports these items.

If Pakistan moves over to the negative list, which generally contains a small number of sensitive items, {Why should we assume that ? Pakistan could continue to maintain the 12000-item negative list and simply abolish the positive list to give an impression that they have moved over to another trade regime] trade could get normalised to a great extent because the remaining items would be traded according to the prevalent duty structures.

In return, Pakistan is demanding an end to non-tariff barriers (NTBs) that prevent many of its goods from entering India. Two rounds have already been held on this and other trade-related subjects — the first in April between the Commerce Secretaries and the second at the Joint Secretaries level late last month. With Pakistan blocking Indian imports by the positive list, India has so far maintained that the NTBs Pakistan claims are not country-specific. The first meeting between the Commerce Ministers after a gap of three years is poised to address both issues, provided unforeseen events don't force a slide in bilateral ties, said the government sources.

Islamabad has sought to address India's concerns about the slow pace of prosecuting those held in Pakistan for masterminding the 2008 Mumbai attacks by setting up a Judicial Commission which is to visit India. {Our Commerce Minister must keep a close watch on the developments in the Adiala Court. The Judicial Commission is being challenged there.} After communicating its decision, Pakistan is expected to ask India for dates for the panel visit {Pakistan is very finely calibrating the developments.} to Mumbai and take statements from the judicial and investigating officers besides the doctors who conducted the post-mortem on the nine killed attackers.

Pakistan says the Judicial Commission would strengthen the case against its nationals arrested for involvement in the Mumbai terror attacks.

India too has avoided ruffling Pakistan's feathers, especially in the period following al-Qaeda chief Osama bin-Laden's killing in Abbottabad. Immediately after bin-Laden's killing, senior officials here dampened the goading by some strategic experts to turn the screws on Pakistan or undertake a U.S.-type operation to eliminate militant leaders involved in violence against India.

“You can't luxuriate in the assumption that India could exercise a giant swatter-like approach towards Pakistan. This is not realistic. Our approach has to be a factor of where we are and where we are placed. Pakistan is a foreign country but part of us. {WTF does it mean ?} We have a very different relationship [from the Americans]. It is very easy to be hawkish on Pakistan. It is very easy to say: bring Pakistan on its knees. But it won't be the end game. The story won't end there,'' the sources had then observed.

Even if the big ticket announcements are not made, Mr. Fahim's visit could see further discussions on liberalising the business visa regime and greater volume flow trade by the land routes. Pakistan would also urge India not to challenge the European Union's preferential trade package offered after last year's floods. {Pakistan is trying to get all advangeas for itself witout concdeing anything to India, even the MFN which it has to under the WTO & SAARC charters} Either way officials feel the meet will set the tone for the next round of post-Mumbai comprehensive dialogue.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 12 Sep 2011 09:23

SSridhar wrote: Pakistan is a foreign country but part of us. {WTF does it mean ?}

The most charitable explanation is that there are social and cultural similarities/linkages between India and Pakistan.

There are other hypotheses. Listen to Digvijay Singh, Barkha Dutt, Sagarika Ghosh, commies, Jamiat Ulema-e-Hind, Imam of Jama Masjid etc.

The identification of most likely explanation is left as an exercise for the intelligent reader.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Sep 2011 09:48

abhishek_sharma wrote:
SSridhar wrote: Pakistan is a foreign country but part of us. {WTF does it mean ?}
The most charitable explanation is that there are social and cultural similarities/linkages between India and Pakistan.

There are other hypotheses. Listen to Digvijay Singh, Barkha Dutt, Sagarika Ghosh, commies, Jamiat Ulema-e-Hind, Imam of Jama Masjid etc.

The identification of most likely explanation is left as an exercise for the intelligent reader.

Add to that the hi-falutin chankianism explanation of countering Pakistan's "not India" argument with an Indian "Rubish, you are us"