West Asia News and Discussions

[Klaus]

Atleast 230 Yemeni army soldiers killed over the past 3 months

Nasr lauded the "great sacrifices" also made by tribes in Abyan to retake Zinjibar. He was speaking while touring an army camp in Zinjibar.

Since March, Zinjibar has been under the control of Muslim radicals, who declared the coastal city an "Islamic emirate."

The government said the group took advantage of the unrest and the protests against the rule of Yemeni President Ali Abdullah Saleh that erupted in February.

[Philip]

The hard truth is that the "Arab Spring" has become a huge hedache for israel,as anti-Israeli sentiments were kept down by Mubarak and co. in Egypt.This latest report shows how the anti-Israeli sentiment is growing rapidly in the region

"http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... bassy.html

Egypt's military rulers ignored pleas from US as mob attacked Israeli embassy

Egypt's military leaders have been accused of turning a blind eye to the mob attack on Israel's Cairo embassy at the weekend as it emerged that they ignored repeated telephone calls from the Obama administration
By Adrian Blomfield, Jerusalem11:34PM BST 11 Sep 2011

Xcpt:

With six Israeli security guards fending off an angry mob rampaging through the mission, Leon Panetta, the US defence secretary, tried for two hours to get hold of Field Marshal Hussein Tantawi, Egypt's de facto head of state, to demand an immediate rescue operation.
Aides told Mr Panetta that the general could not be found, Israeli officials were quoted as saying. The response prompted fury in Washington, and threats of US retribution. Field Marshal Tantawi's mysterious disappearance intensified speculation that Egypt's generals had deliberately failed to protect the embassy for political gain.
The armed forces, which are running Egypt until a civilian government is elected at the end of the year, are thought to be desperate to retain the political influence and financial privileges they enjoyed under President Hosni Mubarak, who was toppled by protests in February.
Officials in Israel, as well as a number of political activists in Cairo, have claimed that Field Marshal Tantawi turned down an opportunity to rein in the violence at the embassy in order to prove that, without a strong army, Egypt would descend into violence and anarchy.
Israel was forced to send military aircraft to Cairo to evacuate its ambassador and more than 80 diplomats after a mob, angered by the killing of three Egyptian border guards by Israeli forces last month, laid siege to the embassy. As the Egyptian police and army stood by, unwilling or unable to intervene, the rioters broke through the mission's defences and ransacked the building. The incident has plunged relations between Israel and its oldest Arab ally deep into crisis.

[RajeshA]

The hard truth is that the "Arab Spring" has become a huge hedache for israel,as anti-Israeli sentiments were kept down by Mubarak and co. in Egypt.This latest report shows how the anti-Israeli sentiment is growing rapidly in the region

Egypt's military rulers ignored pleas from US as mob attacked Israeli embassy

Israel would soon be ruing the day, they gave up Sinai Peninsula. Those who promise peace for land, take the land but always return to their old ways.

The new wave of anti-Israelism that would start to run through the region would be putting a lot of pressure on Isreal and threatening its existence itself. Sooner or later, Israel would be pushed into a new war.

Basically if Egypt doesn't care anymore about relations with Israel, then Isreal can expect, Egypt to arming Hamas, even with heavy weapons and hiding behind the non-state actor excuse. Israel may have to retake Sinai and push the Palestinians in the Gaza strip towards the most beneficent of all Arabs - the Saudis, and push their Wahhabi society into a tailspin.

Last but not least, Israelis would either have to start mass-converting or to start mass-procreating.

[kumarn]

The Israelis less hope of surviving long term, unless they expand, both demographically and geographically.

[shyamd]

That article has a lot of bias in it and half truths. Contrary to what is happening, the Israeli's and Egypt are negotiating on troop deployment in Zone C to tackle terrorism amongst the bedouin tribes there. Tantawi allowed the protests to take place to improve the armed forces council position and delay elections - which actually means MB won't come to power for a while (good for israel in a way).

As I have said protesters at the Israeli embassy had no islamist involvement. They have arrested the 100's involved in the protests. The same protests also attacked the Egyptian interior ministry office next door to the embassy. Lets face it, in the whole of MENA, the public is extremely anti Israel, and what they see as "their brothers getting killed and abused on a daily basis". Things really kicked off when picture surfaced in 2001 of an israeli policemen with his foot on a palestinian women's head.

Although it appears as if things are very bad for Israel - things aren't that bad yet. What will be a turning point is if US veto's palestinian statehood attempts at the end of this month.

Israel may have to accept peace on the 1967 lines or face a lot of problems.

[vishvak]

Israel may have to accept peace on the 1967 lines or face a lot of problems.

What do Jews have to face now? exodus from Arab and Muslim countries ? Why would Jews care now that Arabs were silent on this ethnic cleansing? Arabs are have their hands full of Jewish blood and what have Arabs done about it?

If Israel has to be treated by laws of jungle, what is left to say? Why should Americans extend courtesy to those who treat others this manner?

Egyptians should rather make peace, rather comfortably in this environment for which selves have struggled, then go paki way of defining Egyptians as anti-Israelis, the brotherhood etc. notwithstanding.

You can't blame Israel when it is the Jews who could be facing laws of the jungle.

If push comes to shove, Indians should strengthen up the numbers for == in Human Rights. Is there a problem with Indians around Jerusalem? Is veg. food available in Israel?

[shyamd]

Looks like there is total recognition that if Israel doesn't start negotiating, its in for big trouble.
Israeli intelligence urges return to peace talks with Palestinians

Foreign Ministry, Shin Bet, Mossad and MI documents recommend progress vis-a-vis Palestinians in order to tone down tensions and anger, and improve Israel's diplomatic standing.
By Barak Ravid
Tags: Mahmous Abbas Benjamin Netanyahu UN Security Council Palestinian state

In recent weeks the Foreign Ministry, Military Intelligence, the Shin Bet security service and the Mossad have distributed a number of documents stating that a return to negotiations would tone down tensions and anger against Israel.

The documents, issued ahead of the expected UN vote on a Palestinian state, also state that while changes in the Arab world could be a threat to Israel, they also represent opportunities for Israel to improve its diplomatic standing.

"All the documents recommend progress vis-a-vis the Palestinians," a source close to Defense Minister Ehud Barak said.

In recent meetings of the eight senior cabinet ministers, Barak told Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the other ministers that the focus should be on Israel's interests and not on symbolic issues like national honor. If Israel does not try to seriously move the peace process ahead, it will be seen as obstructionist by its friends in the West, Barak told the ministers.
"By sharpening tensions with the Palestinians, we are inviting isolation on Israel," Barak also told the octet.

Barak believes the security cabinet should not to be dealing with tactical matters such as an apology to Turkey or evacuating the embassy in Cairo, but with strategic issues involving Israel's standing in the region. "The signs are there; afterward we'll have to ask ourselves what we could have done differently," Barak said in closed conversations.

Meanwhile, France and Spain, along with the European Union's high representative for foreign affairs and security policy, Catherine Ashton, are in advanced stages of negotiations with the Palestinian Authority over a "package deal" that will enable the 27 member states of the EU to vote at the United Nations General Assembly in favor of upgrading the PA to the status of a non-permanent member of the UN.

The Europeans are also trying to gain the United States' agreement to abstain from the vote and continue its financial aid to the Palestinians, in return for a promise by PA President Mahmoud Abbas not to take Israel to the International Criminal Court in The Hague.

Three senior European diplomats involved in the negotiations told Haaretz that the PA president had informed the EU of his decision not to turn to the UN Security Council on September 20 and request that Palestine be accepted as a full member of the organization.

Abbas, who realizes that the United States will exercise its veto power at the Security Council, has decided to turn to the UN General Assembly, whose resolutions are less binding, in order to seek the support of the European Union member states in the vote.
Abbas is expected to meet in Cairo today with Ashton, who is in charge of the EU's foreign policy, and with the foreign ministers of the Arab League Monitoring Committee. During both meetings the diplomatic deal being worked out will be discussed.

Among the elements included in the package being negotiated are the following:

a. The Palestinians will ask the UN General Assembly to upgrade their standing to something similar to that of the Vatican, which has permanent observer status at the international body. This will enable the Palestinians to be full members in a series of international organizations.

b. A large block of the 27 member states of the EU will vote in favor of the resolution, but the resolution will include a clause stating that the vote does not require that each state recognize the Palestinian state on a bilateral level. This is a critical condition for gaining the support of Germany and Italy to the vote. It is assumed that if this is accepted, at least 20 of the 27-member block will vote in favor of the resolution.

c. The Palestinians will commit to resuming negotiations with Israel immediately following the vote at the UN, without any preconditions.

d. The wording of the resolution the Palestinians will bring before the General Assembly will be balanced and will combine elements of the speeches of U.S. President Barack Obama of May 19, 2011, and the conclusion of the EU's Foreign Affairs Council of December 2009. In other words, the negotiations will be held on the basis of the 1967 borders with an exchange of territory and a statement according to which the EU will be ready to recognize the Palestinian state "at an appropriate time."

Meanwhile, France and Spain, along with the European Union’s high representative for foreign affairs and security policy, Catherine Ashton, are in advanced stages of negotiations with the Palestinian Authority over a “package deal” that will enable the 27 member states of the EU to vote at the United Nations General Assembly in favor of upgrading the PA to the status of a non-permanent member of the UN.
In parallel, the Palestinians are holding consultations with Germany, Britain and Italy on an agreed wording for the resolution, which would enable the three large EU member states to vote in favor. Spanish and French diplomats noted that they are very close to achieving an understanding with the Germans.
Ashton and the five large EU countries are keen to avoid an internal European division over the issue. "We will do everything possible not to isolate Germany," European diplomats said.

A senior German diplomat did not deny the developments and said that his country is interested in a "package deal" with the Palestinians on a balanced resolution.

[shyamd]

Saudi Arabia was not keen on Karzai-Taliban talks (Wikileaks)

Submitted by Vijay Sharma on Sun, 09/11/2011 - 18:48

Even as rumors fly of a meeting between Afghan President Hamid Karzai and Taliban leaders during the former's visit to Saudi Arabia last month, a Wikileaks cable has revealed that the Saudis were initially against such a meeting.

The cable, dating back to February last year and sent from the Islamabad embassy of the United States, quotes American Special Representative to Afghanistan and Pakistan (SRAP) Richard Holbrooke as telling Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari that Saudis were not keen on the talks.

Holbrooke pointed out that Karzai was interested in holding talks with the Taliban, but the Saudis, reeling from the spread of Al Qaeda ideology in the Holy Kingdom, were not keen.

The issue of talks is a very sensitive one as many rule out the possibility of the Taliban ever being supporters of a democratic regime, while Karzai has been pushing strongly for reconciliation.

"Holbrooke added that Karzai wanted to meet with the Taliban in Saudi Arabia, but that Saudi Arabia would not support such talks until the Taliban renounced al-Qaeda.

"Zardari confirmed that Saudi Intelligence Chief Prince Muqrin bin Abdel Aziz had discussed the possibile talks with him, but Prince Muqrin "would not guarantee" it would happen," the cable sent from the Islamabad embassy to Washington last year said.

Saudi Arabia, as the seat of the holiest Islamic shrines and the home-country of Osama bin Laden, has been on the forefront of the battle against the Al Qaeda, an Islamic, Sunni-oriented fundamentalist network.

Osama bin Laden, despite being the son of a well-to-do Saudi Government contractor, had reserved some of the most scathing words for the government of his homeland, calling it the agent of American imperialists. The House of Saud, which rules the Kingdom, let a largish contingent of US military on its territory during the Gulf war with its enemy, Iraq.

Meanwhile, speculation is rife that President Karzai did finally win the backing of the Saudi authorities for conducting talks with the Taliban. Some reports have even suggested that Karzai, on his Saudi visit last month, even held talks with the Taliban and the Gulauddin Hekmatyar group.

Karzai sees talks and reconciliation with the Taliban, who want the unadulterated implementation of Quranic laws and regulations in Afghanistan, as the key to long term peace in the country.

The same cable, however, indicated that Holbrooke, as Obama's special representative for the region, did not share Karzai's optimism.

"Holbrooke noted that the popular perception of the U.S. reintegration and reconciliation efforts with the Taliban mistakenly overemphasized the possibility for reconciliation, explaining that reconciliation with Taliban leaders was less likely than reintegrating low-level Taliban who had given up the fight," the cable said.

Saudi Arabia's role in fighting the terror network was detailed in another cable, dating back to May 2009, which described a meeting between Holbrooke and the Saudi Assistant Minister of the Interior. Prince Mohammed bin Nayef (MbN).

"Terrorists stole the most valuable things we have. They took our faith and our children and used them to attack us," the cable, written by the Riyadh embassy of the US, quoted the Prince as telling Holbrooke.

"It had not been easy to see Saudi involvement in 9/11 and other terrorist incidents, he said. AQ [al Qaeda] was smart in wanting to hit both the U.S. and Saudi Arabia. AQ's strategic goal was to hurt the U.S. and to take control of the Holy Cities of Mecca and Medina," the cable said.

The cable then described how the Saudis were fighting terror, according to Prince MbN.

"MbN claimed that in 2003 radicals were present in "90 percent" of Saudi mosques. The current Saudi leadership had decided it needed to be on the front lines of the struggle against terrorism, that the task could not be left to the next generation, since AQ gained momentum every time it succeeded.

"The Saudis realized they could not fight back without public support, he said, and developed a strategy of working with families of suicide bombers and other extremists who had been killed.

"This approach involved providing support to the families and telling them their sons had been "victims" and not "criminals." This gave the families "a way out" and provided a public relations advantage to the government. "If you stop five but create fifty" new radicals, "that's dumb." MbN said.

"The Saudis measure their success against extremism by looking at levels of terrorist recruitment the number of successful operations, and they see a growing rejection of extremist violence.

"The Prince related an anecdote about an anti-terrorist operation in which the officer commanding Interior Ministry forces had discovered his cousin was the leader of the terrorists inside a surrounded building.

"MbN said he had offered to relieve the officer, but the latter had refused, and had insisted on leading the attack. The officer succeeded in defeating the terrorists while capturing his cousin alive.

"Saudi Arabia was not yet free of terrorism, MbN said. Thus it remained important to defeat the terrorists on the ground, in the media, and ideologically. The Saudis wanted to do this in cooperation with the U.S., the Prince said. Time was the key, and it was "not in our favor," he added, so "we need to work fast."

"On terrorist financing, MbN said "We are trying to do our best." Saudi Arabia has millions of visitors, especially during Hajj. The Saudis are making arrests, but are not making this public.

"Instead, the Saudi goal is to make the public aware that donations could go to the wrong places. MbN said that "if money wants to go" to terrorist causes, "it will go," and that terrorist attacks were inexpensive, "but let's make it harder."

"Holbrooke asked what the Saudis would do with Pakistanis in Saudi Arabia who financed terrorism. The Prince replied the suspects would be tried in Shari'a courts with Wahhabi judges so that the results of the judicial process could be used to condemn extremist ideology.

[shyamd]

An Indian died today in the Kuwait reclamation project. Prominent Kuwaiti's are joining in the prayers for the deceased gentleman.

-------------------------------
Prince Turki's oped in NYT. A must read. I don't understand why the US is against admitting Palestine into the UN. Israel and the US as well as the arabs have agreed that a 2 state solution is the only way forward. Then why veto it? It doesn't make much sense. Prince Turki is dead right in this article.
Veto a State, Lose an Ally

By TURKI AL-FAISAL
Published: September 11, 2011

Jidda, Saudi Arabia

The United States must support the Palestinian bid for statehood at the United Nations this month or risk losing the little credibility it has in the Arab world. If it does not, American influence will decline further, Israeli security will be undermined and Iran will be empowered, increasing the chances of another war in the region.

Moreover, Saudi Arabia would no longer be able to cooperate with America in the same way it historically has. With most of the Arab world in upheaval, the “special relationship” between Saudi Arabia and the United States would increasingly be seen as toxic by the vast majority of Arabs and Muslims, who demand justice for the Palestinian people.

Saudi leaders would be forced by domestic and regional pressures to adopt a far more independent and assertive foreign policy. Like our recent military support for Bahrain’s monarchy, which America opposed, Saudi Arabia would pursue other policies at odds with those of the United States, including opposing the government of Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki in Iraq and refusing to open an embassy there despite American pressure to do so. The Saudi government might part ways with Washington in Afghanistan and Yemen as well.

The Palestinian people deserve statehood and all that it entails: official recognition, endorsement by international organizations, the ability to deal with Israel on more equal footing and the opportunity to live in peace and security.

Israel should see the Palestinian bid for statehood not as a threat, but as a chance to return to the negotiating table and prevent further conflict. Recent polls show that up to 70 percent of Palestinians say they believe there will be a new intifada if the deadlock is not broken shortly; this should encourage Israel to seek peace with the moderate Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas.

The Obama administration has had ample opportunities to lead Israelis and Palestinians into bilateral peace talks, but American policy makers have unfortunately been more preoccupied with a deteriorating domestic economy and a paralyzed political scene than with finding a workable solution to this epic injustice. Because Washington has offered no viable new proposals, the least it can do is step aside and not hinder Saudi, European and moderate Arab efforts to advance Palestinian rights at the United Nations.

Even Israeli officials have recently admitted privately to their European counterparts that only Saudi Arabia will be able to give the Palestinians the required religious, political and financial legitimacy they need to complete a deal with Israel. Saudi Arabia had earmarked over $2.5 billion in aid to the Palestinian Authority since June 2009, making it by far the largest single supporter of the Palestinian cause. But this money will not do much good until Palestinians are granted their fundamental rights.

The 2002 Arab Peace Plan must be the starting point for negotiations; a two-state solution based on the 1967 borders is the only realistic foundation on which to restart talks, seeing as how the Oslo Peace Process has proved fruitless.

The Palestinian statehood initiative is a chance to replace Oslo with a new paradigm based on state-to-state negotiations — a win-win proposition that makes the conflict more manageable and lays the groundwork for a lasting solution.

The only losers in this scenario would be Syria and Iran, pariah states that have worked tirelessly — through their support of Hamas and Hezbollah — to undermine the peace process. Saudi Arabia recently played a leading role in isolating Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s brutal government by demanding an end to the killing of protesters and recalling the Saudi ambassador from Damascus. The impending fall of Mr. Assad’s barbarous regime provides a rare strategic opportunity to weaken Iran. Without this vital ally, Tehran will find it more difficult to foment discord in the Arab world.

Today, there is a chance for the United States and Saudi Arabia to contain Iran and prevent it from destabilizing the region. But this opportunity will be squandered if the Obama administration’s actions at the United Nations force a deepening split between our two countries.

Although Saudi Arabia is willing and able to chart a new and divergent course if America fails to act justly with regard to Palestine, the Middle East would be far better served by continuing cooperation and good will between these longstanding allies.

American support for Palestinian statehood is therefore crucial, and a veto will have profound negative consequences. In addition to causing substantial damage to American-Saudi relations and provoking uproar among Muslims worldwide, the United States would further undermine its relations with the Muslim world, empower Iran and threaten regional stability. Let us hope that the United States chooses the path of justice and peace.

Prince Turki al-Faisal, a former director of Saudi Arabia’s intelligence services and a former Saudi ambassador to the United States, is chairman of the King Faisal Center for Research and Islamic Studies.

--------------------------
Meanwhile in Cairo - the Supreme armedforces council cancelled all public engagements of Erdogan. They know he is goign to make a lot of anti israel speeches, so they are preventing him from meeting the egyptian public and rallying them, they also canceled his planned visit to Gaza. The only speech he will make is in the Arab League conference..

[Samudragupta]

The most probable solution for Israel is to have KSA rule Gaza and to have Jordanian protectorate over West Bank....

The important aspect of changing ME equations is that the two powers who are trying for the strategic control of the ME viz the Turks and the Persians are disadvantaged demographically from a long term POV wrt the Arabs ......It seems that both the Turks and the Persians may be preempting the likely coming out of party of the Arabs in the region....Arab Spring may be the first step towards that....

[shyamd]

Slowly slowly, things slipping slightly in favour of Assad. Turkey is busy making itself a "leader of the arab/sunni world", Egypt is mired in unrest internally and external issues with the US (its also the SecGen for Arab League - so needs to be more diplomatic and therefore can't take a tough stance).

Update: erdogan spoke at the arab league meet in Cairo. Not a word on syria, lots on Gaza, palestine etc. GCC are unhappy. They say that Turkey is not being a good neighbour lol!

Meanwhile Turkey is coordinating ground assault on pkk position, it has expanded reconnaissance flights into north of iraq. KRG, US, Turkey and Iran are together on this.

A few GCC nations (qatar and KSA) are taking the lead on Syria by deploying intel officers, financial, sophisticated comms equipment etc.
They are preparing libya style operation.
This arab league meeting was meant to be where they condemn Assad and GCC musters diplomatic support for a resolution against Syria. GCC can still pull it off.
What's interesting is that Qatar is the one doing all the rhetoric and taking the lead on Syria. Its broken of ties, is telling everyone that assad is going to fall and is deploying its money and diplomatic skills in this.

Very interesting times indeed.

[ramana]

Syrians are survivors and have changed as the force of history swirls around them.

Persian conquest of Assyria changed the ancient Middile East.
Arab conquest of Damascus changed Islamic Middle East.
Crusader conquest of Syria changed Western Europe.
Battle of Ain Julut turned the Mongol tide.

Lets see how it turns this time.

[RamaY]

An Indian died today in the Kuwait reclamation project. Prominent Kuwaiti's are joining in the prayers for the deceased gentleman.

-------------------------------
Prince Turki's oped in NYT. A must read. I don't understand why the US is against admitting Palestine into the UN. Israel and the US as well as the arabs have agreed that a 2 state solution is the only way forward. Then why veto it? It doesn't make much sense.

Israel and US can allow Palestine's UN membership only when the bigoted OIC accepts Israel's right to exist. The OIC members cannot have the cake (the Palestine) and eat it too (call for Israel's destruction).

[shyamd]

^^ OIC is a meaningless body. Arab league recognised israel at its 1967 borders.
The arabs can easily say why hasn't the "bigoted zionist govt" recognised the rights of the palestinians and they continue to build settlements on land that legally doesn't belong to them.
Its only the US that's preventing the Palestinians from putting a ICJ court case against the illegal settlements.

--------------
Bill Burns (Dep Sec of State Dept) despatched to KSA, UAE to discuss arab spring, Iran, UN vote on Palestine. Lets see what happens.

[Philip]

Ottoman Gambit:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/se ... arab-world

Errdogan takes the plunge to restore Turkey as regional "Pasha",by trying to create a coalition from among Israel's neighbours.

Turkey's PM rallies Arab world in Cairo with call for UN to recognise Palestine
Analysts believe Recep Tayyip Erdogan's Egypt visit is designed to strengthen Turkey's influence in the region and isolate Israel

Xcpt:

Turkey's prime minister has called for the Palestinian flag to finally be raised at the United Nations, insisting that international recognition of the state was now an obligation, not an option.

Recep Tayyip Erdogan used a much-anticipated speech to the Arab League in Cairo to rally opposition to Israel, and promised that Turkey would stand in solidarity with those struggling for political change in the Arab world.

"Freedom and democracy and human rights must be a united slogan for the future of our people," Erdogan told an audience of Arab foreign ministers and millions more watching on television across the region. "The legitimate demands of the people cannot be repressed with force and in blood."

The 57-year-old was speaking at the start of a four-day tour of revolutionary north Africa, which analysts believe is designed to strengthen Turkey's influence within the Middle East and isolate their one-time ally Israel. Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas, who is also in Egypt, has announced that he will be pressing ahead with Palestine's bid for full recognition from the UN security council, despite the fact that it will almost certainly be met by a US veto. The EU's foreign policy chief, Catherine Ashton, said that the bloc has yet to reach a common position on the question of Palestinian statehood.

Erdogan is currently embroiled in a diplomatic crisis with Israel over the latter's refusal to apologise for the killing of Turkish activists by Israeli soldiers on a Gaza-bound ship last year. In his address he accused the state of acting like a spoiled child and building a blockade around its own people, adding: "Israel will break away from solitude only when it acts as a reasonable, responsible, serious and normal state."

He added: "We must work hand in hand with our Palestinian brothers. The Palestinian cause is the cause of human dignity. It's time to raise the Palestinian flag at the United Nations. Let's raise the Palestinian flag and let that flag be the symbol of peace and justice in the Middle East." The 33-minute speech was interrupted several times by bursts of applause from the assembled Arab dignitaries.

With the fight for democracy continuing to rumble through the Arab world and steadfast allies seemingly melting away, Israel appears to be facing an altered reality in the Middle East – where it could once count both the Egyptian and Turkish governments as close friends. Israeli foreign ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor refused to comment on Erdogan's address, or on earlier claims made by Erdogan that Israel's assault on the Mavi Marmara vessel constituted "grounds for war".

Erdogan's visit to Egypt has been a media circus, with thousands greeting the Turkish leader on his arrival at Cairo airport on Monday night. With his strong rhetoric on Turkish-Arab unity, high-profile satellite TV chatshow appearances and photogenic walkabouts in the capital – including an impromptu and warm meeting with street protesters campaigning for regime change in Syria and Yemen – Erdogan did little to hide his intention of positioning Turkey into a leadership role at the heart of the Arab spring.

"He's a media star, and he's making the Arab leaders look bad by going to their own home and criticising them," said Sultan Al Qassemi, an analyst of Arab affairs. "It feels a tad opportunist – particularly as it's only Israel's refusal to apologise [over the Gaza boat deaths] that has given him the space to do this – but he has the credibility because he's done so well in his own country, and he can talk from a position of strength. The question remains, will he prove to be a shining star, or just a comet that will crash and burn?"

Egyptians are looking to Turkey for political support and economic aid as the country begins to rebuild following the toppling of former president Hosni Mubarak in February. Erdogan arrived in the country accompanied by an army of 200 Turkish businessmen, and has announced plans to increase investment and establish a formal strategic co-operation council between the two nations. With Egypt's military junta on the back foot over recent pro-change protests and the breaching of the Israeli embassy during a protest in Cairo last week, this trip has come at a particularly sensitive time.

[Purush]

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/could ... story.html

The man who could trigger a world war
By David Warren, Ottawa Citizen

The greatest threat to the world's peace, at this moment, comes from a man named Recip Tayyip Erdogan. He is the prime minister of Turkey, at the head of the Justice and Development Party ("AK," from the Turkish). A former mayor of Istanbul, he was arrested and jailed when he publicly recited Islamist verses ("the mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets are our bayonets," etc.), in defiance of the old secularist, Ataturk constitution, which made it an offence to incite religious and racial fanaticism.

Erdogan's credentials as an anti-Semite, but also as an anti-Communist, were established from his school days. He came from an observant Muslim family, and while nothing he says can be taken without salt, he claims an illustrious ancestry, of fighters for Turkish and Ottoman causes.

He is an "interesting case" in other respects. His post-secondary education was in economics; he is a very capable technocrat, and under his direction the Turkish economy was rescued. He is a dragonslayer of inflation, and public deficits; he took dramatic and effective measures to clean up squalor in the Turkish bureaucracy, and as the saying goes, "he made the trains run on time."

Erdogan is also a "democrat," who has no reason not to be, because he enjoys tremendous and abiding domestic popularity. The party he founded came to power by a landslide, and has been twice re-elected. (He had a stand-in for prime minister at first, for he was still banned from public office.) There are demographic reasons, too, why Turkish secularism has been overwhelmed by Turkish Islamism. The Muslim faithful have babies; modern secularists don't.

The "vision" of this politician, which he can articulate charismatically, is to combine efficient, basically free-market economic management, with a puritanized version of the religious ideals of the old Ottoman Caliphate. (Gentle reader may recall that I am allergic to visionary and charismatic politicians, who operate on the body politic like a dangerous drug.)

Erdogan's vision has turned outward. His strategy has been to seek better economic integration with the West, while making new political alliances with the East - most notably with Iran. He now presents Turkey as the champion of "mainstream" Sunni Islamism, while trying to square the circle with Persian Shia Islamism. This could still come to grief over Syria, where the Turks want Iran's man, Assad, overthrown, and the Muslim Brotherhood brought into a new Syrian government.

Turkey's military was the guarantor of pro-western Turkish secularism, under the Ataturk constitution. With characteristic incomprehension of the consequences, western statesmen supported Erdogan's efforts to establish civilian control over the generals - our old NATO friends. By imprisoning several senior officers on (probably imaginative) charges of plotting a coup, Erdogan was able to induce the entire Turkish senior staff to resign, last month.

They did this because they had run out of allies. Hillary Clinton and company hung the only effective domestic opposition to Erdogan out to dry. Turkey's powerful, western-equipped military is now entirely Erdogan's baby, and the country's secularist constitution is a dead letter. Erdogan, the Islamist, now has absolute power.

It was he who sent the "peace flotilla" to challenge Israel's right to blockade Gaza (recognized under international law and explicitly by the U.N.). He made the inevitable violent result of that adventure into an anti-Israeli cause célèbre. He has now announced that the next peace flotilla will be accompanied by the Turkish navy.

This will put Israel in the position of either surrendering its right to defend itself, or firing on Turkish naval vessels. There is no way to overstate the gravity of this: Erdogan is manoeuvring to create a casus belli.

He has made himself the effective diplomatic sponsor for the Palestinian declaration of statehood next week - from which much violence will follow. Every Palestinian who dies, trying to kill a Jew, will be hailed as a "martyr," with compensation and apologies demanded.

He has been playing Egyptian politics, by adding to the rhetorical fuel that propelled an Islamist mob into the Israeli embassy in Cairo last Friday. He is himself in Cairo, this week, on a mission to harness grievances against Israel, in the very fluid circumstances of the "Arab Spring." For action against this common enemy is the one thing that can unite all disparate Arab factions - potentially under Turkish leadership.

The West is just watching, while Erdogan creates pretexts for another Middle Eastern war: one in which Israel may be pitted not only against the neighbouring states of the old Arab League, but also Turkey, and Iran, and Hamas, and Hezbollah.

This is what is called an "existential threat" to Israel, unfolding in live time. It could leave the West with a choice between defending Israel, and permitting another Holocaust. In other words, we are staring at the trigger for a genuine world war. With Recip Erdogan's twitching finger on it.

[RajeshA]

Recep Tayyip Erdoğan would want the Arab world to start a war against Israel. When Israel gives a bloody nose to the Arabs again, just like in 1967, it would delegitimize the present regimes in the Arab countries. The world would be faced with either unleashed Islamism taking over, or accepting Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's offer to take over the Arab lands again creating a grand Caliphate promising he will try to control the rampant Islamism.

The world may have to accept.

Erdoğan will then find a compromise with the Islamists, and establish the Caliphate with Ankara as its capital, giving free reign to Islamism all over the world, and doing a Musharraf dance of running with the Islamists and hunting with the West.

Or of course, with the Arab regimes fallen, Turkey will just march in to the region and push Israel to make peace. The people would celebrate Recep Tayyip Erdoğan as their savior, and Turkey will be able to take over the reigns of the Caliphate.

Whichever way it goes, Erdoğan is a very dangerous man. He is no savior!

[abhischekcc]

Or the reverse may happen. Erdogan starts a war with Israel, which draws in every yahoo for 1000 kms around. Israel gives bloody nose as usual to their enemies, maybe even drop a nuke or two. And then all the Arab regimes including Erdogan's are delegitimized, which opens the way for genuine democracy in Muslim world.

This is what happens when a superpower which held diverse conflicts at bay withdraws from the scene - people start jockeying for power in the ensuing vacuum.

[shyamd]

Erdogan is not going to start a war. Although he is doing a lot of sabre rattling - 3 Turkish warships have arrived to the Eastern Med. They can't start a war there for a number of reasons - any sort of conflict may be limited to a naval clash with Turkey - Israel's navy is faaar superior qualitatively and will probably win hands down.

Turkey can't get into a war while this big unrest sweeps Syria - they may have to intervene to prevent kurdish independence.

Egypt can't do much - the current rulers can't handle both internal and external issues. They don't seem to be bothered and they need economic support to fund a war - the egyptian economy is in tatters, and they can't afford one. War with Israel will be like the nuclear option for them - an ultimate last resort to survive and keep the system alive. But again, things are okay for now.

Israel will open talks with the palestinian authority to stave off any crisis - this gives no one an excuse. Israel will start to lie low for a while - no major operations in Gaza, because they don't want propaganda to cause a big effect in the region and the people force the rulers to deal with Israel.

If Syria becomes democratic - Israel will give up the Golan (on its terms).
This will mean Israel is surrounded by all KSA allies. Israeli-KSA relations are quite good and the leaders work together on a regular basis albeit at a high level. But eventually (next 5 years or so) Israel will have to settle with Arab peace plan or something close to it. Israel knows that its getting surrounded once again and this time with an enemy that is qualitatively as good as them and armed with nukes.

Its either cooperation or conflict. Israel will have to decide... But remember, any refusal of concessions in the future surrounded by KSA allies will likely mean a massive war. And that will be a war for Israel's survival (its not something that any israeli leader will take easily). As for nukes, both sides have them, so I doubt either would use it. But again all of the above depends on Iran and any sabre rattling they do.

[Sanku]

This will mean Israel is surrounded by all KSA allies. Israeli-KSA relations are quite good and the leaders work together on a regular basis albeit at a high level. But eventually (next 5 years or so) Israel will have to settle with Arab peace plan or something close to it. Israel knows that its getting surrounded once again and this time with an enemy that is qualitatively as good as them and armed with nukes..

Fascinating.

[Suppiah]

Erdogan is leading Turkey to a no win situation either way.

If Israel gets into serious trouble with Arabs, there are enough sabre rattlers and potty mouths within Arab world who can give Erdogan a run for his money. He cannot out-barbarian the barbarians. Nor can he control them once the passions are aroused. He will be another Zia. And if all the 300million + arabs get into war with Israel, Turkey in or out hardly matters. Either they all get nuked by Israel or Israel gets wiped out of earth.

Right now Arabs are a bit lost because of their troubles and hence he appears to be a hero. As the saying in Tamil goes in a town without sugar mills, anything passes for sugar. But this is not the time to judge such things. Give them a Nasser or even a Saddam, situation is very different. So it is a matter of time before some Arab dictator/democratic leader tells him, thank very much you go back to your corner. We KNOW how to be pure ROPers, we don't need YOU to tell us..

And if Israel by some miracle achieves peace with Arabs, it will have enough friends or non-enemies it can play them around for the next 100 years. Turkey or Erdogan would not matter. It may even forgive the Iranian mullahs, but I bet you they will not forgive the Turks for betrayal as they see it. In any case, Erdogan will run out of punching bag and has to explain his own actions in Kurdistan.

And if status quo persists, Turkey will have no role to play as mediator or as so-called moderate sensible party because they have burned that bridge long ago.

[Hari Seldon]

And if all the 300million + arabs get into war with Israel, Turkey in or out hardly matters. Either they all get nuked by Israel or Israel gets wiped out of earth.

Or both. No? There'll be no winners in a WMD-laced war. None. Oils supplies will choke up and the entire world will plunge into a a greater depression than the 30s one, perhaps.

Anyway, the turkey types are clearly overplaying their hand with a neo-ottoman empire building thrust. Russia likely won;t be amused. A few loose WMDs smuggled into kurdish hands ain't that far-fetched. Like the dumb packees, Erdogunslinger is leading the dumb turks to a standoff without winners. Perhaps.

[JE Menon]

>>the turkey types are clearly overplaying their hand

Yup. Hubris. Wait and watch. Either way Turkey is going to emerge with egg on its face. Foolish man. He had a good thing going there in Turkey. Now it seems it has gone to his head.

[devesh]

Or the reverse may happen. Erdogan starts a war with Israel, which draws in every yahoo for 1000 kms around. Israel gives bloody nose as usual to their enemies, maybe even drop a nuke or two. And then all the Arab regimes including Erdogan's are delegitimized, which opens the way for genuine democracy in Muslim world.

This is what happens when a superpower which held diverse conflicts at bay withdraws from the scene - people start jockeying for power in the ensuing vacuum.

abhishekcc ji,

who created these "diverse conflicts" in the fist place. look at how Ottoman empire was dismantled and the modern nation-states of Middle East were created. you will see the work of French and British imperialists all over the current map of the Middle East. whose brilliant idea was it to create countries with multiple ethnic groups (with hostilities to each other)??? whose idea was it to dismantle the political representation system of the Ottoman Empire into the present grotesque form where dictators have ruled for 90 years.

I have only just started delving into this. but let me tell you that all the problems in present Middle East are the creation of the European powers which won in WWI (France and Britain)...they way they made boundaries is the most insidious of all decisions. they deliberately did it to keep entire nations perpetually embroiled in some conflict or the other (between the various ethnic groups).

[RamaY]

^^ OIC is a meaningless body. Arab league recognised israel at its 1967 borders.
The arabs can easily say why hasn't the "bigoted zionist govt" recognised the rights of the palestinians and they continue to build settlements on land that legally doesn't belong to them.
Its only the US that's preventing the Palestinians from putting a ICJ court case against the illegal settlements.

--------------
Bill Burns (Dep Sec of State Dept) despatched to KSA, UAE to discuss arab spring, Iran, UN vote on Palestine. Lets see what happens.

What about ICJ cases against Hamas, PLO leadership, and GCC leadership first. They caused so much violence and wars unnecessarily.

As long as we project this Arap point of view, we will remain unbalanced in our world view. On what basis Jerusalem belongs to Muslims? We should not grant these low-lives historical advantage by stoping the clock at 700AD.

Any historical claim by any Islamic state or population is invalid.

[shyamd]

What about ICJ cases against Hamas, PLO leadership, and GCC leadership first. They caused so much violence and wars unnecessarily.

In their opinion their homes were taken away and many live in refugee camps with little or no rights and they'd like it back and fight for it as a last resort? Did you know that the PLO recognised the right for the state of israel to exist in 1993, was this reciprocated by Israel?

As long as we project this Arap point of view, we will remain unbalanced in our world view. On what basis Jerusalem belongs to Muslims? We should not grant these low-lives historical advantage by stoping the clock at 700AD

Any historical claim by any Islamic state or population is invalid.

But the question is, whether you want to make the current residents (arap, muslims whatever you wish to call them) living there suffer as a result of invasions that occured hundreds of years ago? Is that fair ?

Remove the whole religious aspect and think of it objectively. If tomorrow, the aboriginees asked for an independent Australia ruled by the aboriginees, would you support it? Same for the american indians - who were similarly killed, forced to convert etc. Would you recognise an american indian state? How far do you want to go? Or do you want to forget the past and accept the current status quo and forget whatever happened in the past and live in peace for the future?

We have discussed this to death and its quite boring, so this my last post.

[devesh]

a dated article from 2003. but contains useful info for review and quick brush up.
______________________________________

http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpap ... er695.html

WEST ASIA’S CHANGING STRATEGIC DYNAMICS: An Analysis

Collateral Strategic Dynamics: As a spin off to United States military adventures in West Asia, collateral strategic dynamics have been generated further as evidenced by the following:

* European Union establishing its independent peace keeping force outside American dominated NATO control.

* Russia forging a collective security organization of Central Asia States.

* China’s efforts to give the Shanghai Cooperation Council more security connotation.

* Trends towards multilateralism in global relationships.

[Agnimitra]

Turkey takes over the Arab Spring

Plus the whole thing makes good business sense. Erdogan's caravan includes six ministers and nearly 200 Turkish businessmen - bent on investing heavily all across northern Africa. In Egypt, they may not match the billions of dollars already committed by the House of Saud to the military junta led by Air Marshall Mohammed Tantawi. But in 2010, Turkish trade with the Middle East and North Africa was already at $30 billion, representing 27% of Turkish exports. Over 250 Turkish companies have already invested $1.5 billion in Egypt.

Crucially, Erdogan told Egyptian TV channel Dream, "Do not be wary of secularism. I hope there will be a secular state in Egypt." Erdogan was subtly referring to Turkey's secular constitution; and at the same time he was very careful to remind Egyptians that secularism is compatible with Islam.

[...]

As for the Israeli-Turkey alliance, in fact it kept the Arab world at bay and confined Turkey to a passive role of ineffective outsider in the Middle East. Not anymore. Erdogan can now afford to send multiple simultaneous messages to Israel, the US, the EU, assorted Arab leaders and most of all the Arab street.

[...]

What he could have added is with "friends" like that - Benjamin Netanyahu as prime minister, former Moldova bouncer Avigdor Lieberman as foreign minister, rabid settlers dictating policy - Israel does not need enemies; or rather fabricates enemies en masse. It is the Israeli government itself that accelerated Turkey's rapprochement with Egypt - which is leaving Israel totally isolated.

[Sanku]

abhishekcc ji,

who created these "diverse conflicts" in the fist place. look at how Ottoman empire was dismantled and the modern nation-states of Middle East were created.

Well at least one good thing came out of that churn, the state of Israel.

[devesh]

Sanku ji,

Israel can travel many paths in the future. India's rise, increasing trade flows centering in Asia, "Arab Spring", etc will all be very crucial for Israel. until now, Israel has been a Western implant in Asia. it remains to be seen how Israel changes it world-view keeping all these things in mind.

trust me when I say that even among the Jews, the "western superiority" syndrome is quite prevalent. I know some who are very friendly and generally view the "East" positively. but I've also met a few people in whom I've detected more than a hint of the "white man's burden".

I consider American Jews to be a mixed bag when it comes to India. but I do see some opportunities considering that Israel's geography is ultimately unsuitable for Western superiority type attitude.

[Sanku]

^^^ Completely agree, but all said and done, I hope Israel lives, and as it lives it will have no option but to change in a way that is better for us.

Meanwhile thank god that area fractured, by whomsoever's role. It needs more turmoil before it can come back from its long night of darkness.

[Hitesh]

I respectfully disagree with the opinions regarding Turkey. Turkey is not like an Arab state. It actually has a competent army that is trained to NATO standards. After all it is a NATO country. More important, it is the second largest military in NATO just after USA. It has high tech weaponry and competent soldiers. Its civilian institutions are fairly capable in the first world.

Turkey is no pushover. I mean, after all they stood up to the Allied Powers in the Battle of Gallipoli and stared USSR in its eyes for 50 years without flinching. I actually have more faith in the Turkish military's capability than the Israelis armed forces. However fortunately for Israel, Syria is in the way and for Turkey to get to Israel, they would have to march through Syria and extend its logistics. Turkey does not have good expeditionary capabilities. But neither does Israel. Israel's air force will not find Turkey Air force an easy foe. I would not be surprised if IsAF consider TuAF as the most deadly foe it had to face in its 64 years of existence besides the threat of USSR's involvement.

And don't forget that Turkey has 40 US nuclear weapons under its control. I know that Turkey cannot use it without US President authorization. But if Israel attacks Turkey, a NATO country, with nuclear weapons, by the charter of NATO and the basic principle behind NATO, US would have no choice but to respond to Israel's nuclear attack. Otherwise the NATO alliance falls apart. So I don't think that Israel would dare to risk its only real ally and its ire by attacking Turkey with nuclear weapons. It is a losing proposition for Israel no matter what the outcome of the war is.

[Sanku]

Israel has rarely need to attack any one else, its foes are very obliging in falling over themselves to attack Israel and giving it casus belli on favorable counts.

[Hitesh]

Israel has rarely need to attack any one else, its foes are very obliging in falling over themselves to attack Israel and giving it casus belli on favorable counts.

Actually, on three separate occasions, Israel attacked a neighboring country without provocation- The 1957 Suez Canal, 1981 Osirak raid, 1982 Lebanon War.

Israel may have tactical brilliance, but is short on strategic planning.

[Sanku]

Israel has rarely need to attack any one else, its foes are very obliging in falling over themselves to attack Israel and giving it casus belli on favorable counts.

Actually, on three separate occasions, Israel attacked a neighboring country without provocation- The 1957 Suez Canal, 1981 Osirak raid, 1982 Lebanon War.

Israel may have tactical brilliance, but is short on strategic planning.

The Suez incident was hardly "without provocation" with massed troops outside its borders staging for a attack.

Osirak reactor was certainly one though -- although a country which does not recognize your right to existence gives you a "casus belli" at all times anyway.

1982 Lebanon war was without provocation?

Terrorists attempts to kill your senior leader is not provocation?

I am glad that not all countries are India.

[hnair]

I had no horse in this race during earlier days and I used to watch all these "crisis news" at the local TV shop window, while on my way to PDS shop for subsidized rice. But recently we bought a few stuff from the Hasidim. Beyond bean counting and the recent "premie withdrawal 2006", I would say the Hasidim is the most flexible and thinking one, when it comes to actual fisticuffs. But during peace time, they sort of suck and we can say whatever we want.

Turkey's armed forces are blessed ones. They are part of very righteous alliances and are considered very modern as they use the very best equipment ("made in USA") in the world. They have a very competent and professional military that is not affected by any Islamism. They have a large number of weaponry and shall fight well.

Many Brian Cloughleys have said similar things about Pakistan Army and we found it to be true in every war or skirmish.

[Hitesh]

The assassination was not against the PM of Israel but the ambassador to UK, hardly equivalent of declaring a war against a country who did not carry out the attacks.

Every nation had a right to mass its troops in response to a perceived threat and that perception was justified when Israel, England, and France attacked Egypt without provocation. You need to reread the history books again and stop believing in the self justification theories propagated by the Israelis. Like the Arabs are no saints, Israelis are no saints either. I am just calling a spade a spade.

I am not criticizing Israel's right to exist. I am just criticizing the short sightedness of Israel's leaders. Before they had two reliable allies and now they have alienated one ally and pissed off a powerful leader of another ally. Even though Israel has strong support in US, dissing the President of US is not a good way to maintain a good relationship and I contribute the fault to Netanyahu's ego, pigheadness, and short sightness. To me, he is the Israelis's version of Dick Cheney with a noticeable difference. He runs the country while Dick Cheney, fortunately, was only an advisor, albeit a powerful one.

You claim that Turkey's PM is making a big mistake. That may be so but so is Israel. I do not understand why Israel cannot say sorry and repair the damage to the relationship between Turkey and Israel. The damage is repairable but so far Israel is refusing just out of sheer stubbornness and for the hell of it. It reminds me of a saying, "Don't get involved in an argument with a Jewish person for he will make you want to either kill yourself or him."

[vishvak]

Actually, on three separate occasions, Israel attacked a neighboring country without provocation- The 1957 Suez Canal, 1981 Osirak raid, 1982 Lebanon War..

The Suez incident was hardly "without provocation" with massed troops outside its borders staging for a attack.

Osirak reactor was certainly one though -- although a country which does not recognize your right to existence gives you a "casus belli" at all times anyway.

1982 Lebanon war was without provocation?

Terrorists attempts to kill your senior leader is not provocation?

I am glad that not all countries are India.

Once these provocations are overlooked, Israel becomes the bully.

I hope Israel gives a bloody nose to these invaders and takes no prisoners.

Do we, as Indians, even recognize that Israel has rights over ancient religious lands?

If Israel is surrounded by those who want to finish off Jews, then it is the duty of Israel state to finish off their enemies strategically.

By the way, what is the view of secularists on those who deny rights of Jews? Why are these people not protesting at all at appropriate time? The secularists, and everyone else, must protest all such acts by all Arab countries that are not secular and deny human rights to all religions as provided by declaration of Human Rights by UN.

[RamaY]

In their opinion their homes were taken away and many live in refugee camps with little or no rights and they'd like it back and fight for it as a last resort? Did you know that the PLO recognised the right for the state of israel to exist in 1993, was this reciprocated by Israel?
...
Remove the whole religious aspect and think of it objectively. If tomorrow, the aboriginees asked for an independent Australia ruled by the aboriginees, would you support it? Same for the american indians - who were similarly killed, forced to convert etc. Would you recognise an american indian state? How far do you want to go? Or do you want to forget the past and accept the current status quo and forget whatever happened in the past and live in peace for the future?

We have discussed this to death and its quite boring, so this my last post.

(1) Even a mass murderer has a reason to what s/he does. So justifying terrorism on one or the other pretext is not right. There is a big difference between armed rebellion, guerrilla warfare, and terrorism.

(2) Bharat should support a separate native aborigine/Indian state if and when such a demand exists. There is a big difference between external occupation and internal secession.

I agree with your last point. I would rather wait another 250 years so the entire native Palestine population is pacified so there is no demand for separate state. That way we can forget the past and accept the then current status quo.

[Hitesh]

I had no horse in this race during earlier days and I used to watch all these "crisis news" at the local TV shop window, while on my way to PDS shop for subsidized rice. But recently we bought a few stuff from the Hasidim. Beyond bean counting and the recent "premie withdrawal 2006", I would say the Hasidim is the most flexible and thinking one, when it comes to actual fisticuffs. But during peace time, they sort of suck and we can say whatever we want.

Turkey's armed forces are blessed ones. They are part of very righteous alliances and are considered very modern as they use the very best equipment ("made in USA") in the world. They have a very competent and professional military that is not affected by any Islamism. They have a large number of weaponry and shall fight well.

Many Brian Cloughleys have said similar things about Pakistan Army and we found it to be true in every war or skirmish.

Ok go ahead and diss the Turkey armed forces for all you want and live in a fanboy derision/mockery or whatever the hell you are in. But I am giving the Turkish armed forces the necessary respect and inclination just like any other competent professional would do.