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Vishal Jolapara wrote:September 11, 2011: First P8I for IN tail # IN320, basking at Renton Municipal
I thought it will have the Probe&Drogue IFR? It looks like to have the flying-boom receptacle like the USAF aircraft.
How the heck Navy plans to refuel them? By using USAF refuelers that are flying around Indian Ocean Region or a will the Navy buy flying-boom refuelers?
s sharma wrote:
I thought it will have the Probe&Drogue IFR? It looks like to have the flying-boom receptacle like the USAF aircraft.
How the heck Navy plans to refuel them? By using USAF refuelers that are flying around Indian Ocean Region or a will the Navy buy flying-boom refuelers?
Anybody wish to speculate!
The Navy will obviously get aircraft compatible with Indian refuelers. In any case its not an issue here - the USN and USMC use probe and drogue systems. The only forces using the boom are the USAF, IsAF, TAF and RNAF.
Can anyone explain why IN wanted MAD on these aircrafts? Does the experience of IN in this regard sit favorably to want P8I to have this system? Thanks.
the probe will likely be fitted in India or just before delivery which is some way out.
afair the USN deleted the MAD on P8A for cost reasons and by some law their existing MAD system is classified and not for export, so Boeing found a canadian vendor instead...
I believe the MAD needs the plane to skim the waves at 300ft which USN is not planning to do at all, instead they are designing a finned pkg for a LWT which permits LWT launch from 20,000ft....and likewise radio sonobuoys will presumably be launched from that high up as well. P8A will be a new paradigm in ASW. we have to use P8I in a more dal-chawal-roti kind of manner lacking khans netcentric capabilities and huge budgets.
s sharma wrote: It looks like to have the flying-boom receptacle like the USAF aircraft.
May I ask what made you reach this conclusion? I can't see any sort of refuelling probe.
Shiv sir, the markings just above the cockpit lead to the receptacle for the boom.
Check the F-16 in this picutre, and you'll see similar markings on it.
Last edited by Bala Vignesh on 13 Sep 2011 18:54, edited 1 time in total.
s sharma wrote: It looks like to have the flying-boom receptacle like the USAF aircraft.
May I ask what made you reach this conclusion? I can't see any sort of refuelling probe.
I said that the plane has a receptacle (that is required for the flying boom system)! You can see it just above the cockpit.
It does not have a 'probe'. I never said that. All USAF aircraft have a receptacle and do not have a probe. Whereas, all USN aircraft use probe&drogue method, just like the IAF.
Boom has higher rate of fuel transfer than hose. Fighters have relatively small tanks and use hose while bombers/transports/patrols with relatively bigger tanks need a boom, else they'll spend half the flight transfering fuel.
A330 has ventral boom + two underwing hoses
USN sees its birds operating in littoral environments where false alarm rate is high for MAD. IN plans to use the aircraft for deep sea ops where MAD is useful. Note the ventral radar.
Between ... what happened to Saras? There has been no flight since 2 and half years now. Wiki says:
Current status
The project was officially scrapped as the Controller-And-Auditor General of India declared the NAL unfit for carrying out such complex design purposes.
indranilroy wrote:
Between ... what happened to Saras? There has been no flight since 2 and half years now. Wiki says:
Current status
The project was officially scrapped as the Controller-And-Auditor General of India declared the NAL unfit for carrying out such complex design purposes.
NOVEMBER 17, 2010
With expert consultancies from Italy's Piaggio Aero and Russia's Myasischev Experimental Design Bureau (MDB), India's Saras light transport aircraft programme, plagued by development hurdles and a tragic crash of its second prototype, will finally get back to flight testing next year. As part of a comprehensive recovery programme following the crippling crash on March 6 last year, the first Saras prototype PT-1 is being converted into a PT-2+ standard, and programme is also attempting to finish fabrication of two production standard aircraft (PSA) to join the flight test routine. The consultancies with Piaggio and MDB were necessary after India's civil aviation authority concluded that fundamental design flaws had caused [PDF] last year's crash. The two companies are helping the Saras team completely redesign the aircraft's nacelles.
Singha wrote:^ what I meant was things may not work from israel as-is, needs extended study and indianization ... just as american and russian kit does (kilo battery, t90 thermal imager etc...)
we are just getting our hands on C130J, P8 , C17 etc....I expect we will hear such issues in a few yrs
I suppose every new system will have teething and adjustment problems. What matters is how the original manufacturer cooperates with us to solve the problem
This is not about "military" aviation - but I met Air Marshal Rajkumar today and had a chat. Mahindra had asked him to visit GippsAero in Australia to check out the NM-5 (NAL-Mahindra 5 seat aircraft)
The Gipps Aero guys are thorough professionals who live aviation. They started building in March 2011 and the first flight was on Sept 1st. The owners, test pilots, their wives and children ALL fly aircraft and the owner and test pilot have over 8000 hours of flying each under their belt. if they see a market need for an aircraft they are very quick off the mark to design and fly one at the lowest possible cost. While we still wait for out poor Saras - Mahindra have cooperated with NAL and got someone to actually build and fly which is amazing. I'm guessing that left to itself NAL would have taken - well god knows how long.
Some news on the Kaveri front - the engine has flown 58 out of 86 contracted hours and has reached 70 kN. Acc to AM Raj the engine is ready as it is and should be fitted on to an LCA and flown. The thrust is adequate for that. It is important to get off our backsides and do something rather than dawdling
shiv wrote:
...
Some news on the Kaveri front - the engine has flown 58 out of 86 contracted hours and has reached 70 kN. Acc to AM Raj the engine is ready as it is and should be fitted on to an LCA and flown. The thrust is adequate for that. It is important to get off our backsides and do something rather than dawdling
Shivji, will it be possible for you find out what the dry-thrust that it has actually achieved during this testing regime at Flying Test Bed (FTB) at Gromov Flight Research Institute.
And if possible, the dry and wet SFC values as well (now I'm gettign greedy ).
Till date Veterans praise our HF-24 maruts, Why we can not revive the program now. Where we have a ready to fly air frame, battle tested I guess none of the A/c participating in the MMRCA competition ever faced an enemy aircraft in the air, where as the Marut did . I dnt know if there are any confirmed aerial victory credited to Marut but it stood for it's own and proved it's mettle. LCA is flying with our S/W, the control law is designed by our engineers the have vast experience modifying nearly every Aircraft IAF operated..they can incorporate the new avionics and a powerful engine to the Marut with modification to suit the control system. The Airframe was built for M 2.5 but never got the opportunity to fully exploit it. Is it feasible to upgrade the Aircraft??
Till date Veterans praise our HF-24 maruts, Why we can not revive the program now. Where we have a ready to fly air frame, battle tested I guess none of the A/c participating in the MMRCA competition ever faced an enemy aircraft in the air, where as the Marut did . I dnt know if there are any confirmed aerial victory credited to Marut but it stood for it's own and proved it's mettle. LCA is flying with our S/W, the control law is designed by our engineers the have vast experience modifying nearly every Aircraft IAF operated..they can incorporate the new avionics and a powerful engine to the Marut with modification to suit the control system. The Airframe was built for M 2.5 but never got the opportunity to fully exploit it. Is it feasible to upgrade the Aircraft??
Folks Prof. Prodyut Das wanted do do something similar. Why don't you guys do a couple of downloads of his Vayu article and save it from deletion in 3 days. Less than 2 MB https://rapidshare.com/files/377207669/ ... impler.pdf
Yes...If previously I have analyzed, developed and successfully implemented the technologies in 20k times more requirement and design complexity from scratch..even though your test data were confiscated.
Had an opportunity to interact with an Air Commodore (retired)..he is now associated with SIATI and other people who were Test Pilot Once..They all praised the A/c and what Mr. Air Cmd told that the the A/c was way ahed of it's time. It went out of service b4 we fully realized the potential due to various reasons.
Till date Veterans praise our HF-24 maruts, Why we can not revive the program now. Where we have a ready to fly air frame, battle tested I guess none of the A/c participating in the MMRCA competition ever faced an enemy aircraft in the air, where as the Marut did . I dnt know if there are any confirmed aerial victory credited to Marut but it stood for it's own and proved it's mettle. LCA is flying with our S/W, the control law is designed by our engineers the have vast experience modifying nearly every Aircraft IAF operated..they can incorporate the new avionics and a powerful engine to the Marut with modification to suit the control system. The Airframe was built for M 2.5 but never got the opportunity to fully exploit it. Is it feasible to upgrade the Aircraft??
Folks Prof. Prodyut Das wanted do do something similar. Why don't you guys do a couple of downloads of his Vayu article and save it from deletion in 3 days. Less than 2 MB https://rapidshare.com/files/377207669/ ... impler.pdf
The Air Force Technical College on Thursday night dared a massive operation on the pothole-riddled stretches of the City and was successful in it too: towing a MiG-21 aircraft from the HAL airport to its campus at Jalahalli West.
The aircraft, which was originally flown into HAL from a forward base at Kalaikunda, had to be towed to Jalahalli without being dismantled, given its age. It is nearing the end of its operational life.
A wing span of 7.5 m and a total length of 14.5 m did not make easier the task of towing it through the 28-km circuitous route through Old Airport Road, MG Road, Raj Bhawan Road, Sankey Road, Bellary Road and the Ring Road.
Is it Mig-21Bis type 75 or Mig-21M??...Because both of these two variants features a vertical "aerial" like section in the aft section of the pitot tube...as seen in this picture also.
NEW DELHI: India is swiftly moving towards inking another major deal for training aircraft to teach rookie pilots the intricacies of combat flying before it stitches up the over $10.4 billion (Rs 42,000 crore) project to acquire 126 top-notch fighters.
The Rs 2,900 crore deal for acquiring 75 Swiss Pilatus PC-7 turbo basic trainers is in the final stages now, with the "note" prepared for the Cabinet Committee on Security being "vetted" by the finance ministry at present, say defence ministry sources. "While the contract for 126 MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) is likely to be inked only by January-February, the trainer deal will be signed this year itself," said a source.
Though the Pilatus trainer had emerged the cheapest among other contenders like American Hawker-Beechcraft's T-6C Texan-II and Korean Aerospace's KT-1 after flight trials, it was dogged by some allegations of irregularities in the procurement process. But MoD has dismissed them, holding the negotiations were completed with the Swiss company based on "its absolutely valid commercial offer".
Bala Vignesh wrote:Two of Type 88 Or two of type 77??? Also, Jagan sir, Any idea what is it going to be used for???
there is no Type 88, only Type 77s (Which is the MiG-21FL) (including this one, they will have a total of three Type 77s) (and one Type 74 X ray aircraft). They are used for Technical Training. AFTC is the Engineering/Tech Branch equivalent of AFA - Officers graduate with a Tech Degree and training on fighters etc..
Cosmo_R wrote:"Soon, Rs 2,900cr deal for trainer jets for rookies" ^^^
I am sure there is perfectly good reason but it boggles my mind that after so many years, we can't or won't even produce a basic turboprop trainer.
HAL is over hyped.. to say the least.. modern turboprop is not an easy feat especially when IAF will look into the best of the breed as benchmark.. and HAL will do a catch up act. end of the day .. the total cost will be parallel to buying off the shelf... plus has the advantage of immediate delivery..
Cosmo_R wrote:"Soon, Rs 2,900cr deal for trainer jets for rookies" ^^^
I am sure there is perfectly good reason but it boggles my mind that after so many years, we can't or won't even produce a basic turboprop trainer.
No Actually I think HAL can produce one - but it gets too much business. It is a single company tasked with producing everything and has no spare capacity. Because it is a PSU it cannot wind down if orders are low and does not maintain spare capacity to rapidly ramp up production or put up a new assembly line. Even the USSR and China at their height of commieness did not produce such behemoths. HAL is a huge monster and we need at least 2 or 3 competing companies to do this work. Unfortunately experise in this line takes decades and I see no near term hope other than the moves made by Mahindra to buy up foreign expertise and maintain offshore production lines.
OT - but if you are a doctor it would be visible there are many very basic medical eqpt things the country does not produce yet. even things like certain types of bandages are imported. as for medical diagnostic eqpt and machinery, again high import content or fully imported.
Singha wrote:OT - but if you are a doctor it would be visible there are many very basic medical eqpt things the country does not produce yet. even things like certain types of bandages are imported. as for medical diagnostic eqpt and machinery, again high import content or fully imported.
In fact I see this as a failure of Indian innovation and engineering. There are medical staplers which are supposedly disposable which cost 25000 single use. Hospitals and doctors cut corners and resterilize used staplers to get costs down to 5000 or so. But still - after 25 years no one in India has attempted to design one or even copy it. Or even promote and use a reuseable Russian one. This is a national issue that goes far beyond HAL.
there is no Type 88, only Type 77s (Which is the MiG-21FL) ...
Jagan Garu, as always I hesitate several times before contradicting you on such matters, and apologize in advance; but iirc there was a MiG-21 variant in IAF service which bore the designation Type 88. May have been the first HAL-built MiG-21M (or MF) variant, before standardizing on the Type 96. Not able to check on-line sources now, but I have some vague personal memories of hearing references to the designation; and again iirc it is referred to in Pushpindar Singh's "Aircraft of the Indian Air Force" book.
).
Sigh..
