Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 15 Sep 2011 05:47

‘turned to attacking the statue of Sir Ganga Ram, the Hindu philanthropist. They first pelted the statue with stones; then smothered its face with coal tar. Then a man made a garland of old shoes climbed up to put it round the neck of the statue. The police arrived and opened fire. Among the injured were the fellow with the garland of old shoes. As he fell, the mob shouted: “Let us rush him to Sir Ganga Ram Hospital.”

This is what happens to very good Hindus (dhimmis) who do not protect their own!!! Sir Ganga Sir a great human being but without any clout in modern world!!!

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 15 Sep 2011 05:57

I don't see a problem with this. Dhimmies need to be insulted!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Sep 2011 06:08

Hey, Sir Ganga Ram buil modern Lahore before Jinnah got a dream. And he is no Dhimmi but Punjab ka puttar.

arun · Post by **arun** » 15 Sep 2011 07:07

X Posted from the Oppression of Minorities in Pakistan thread.

Sadanand Dhume in the Wall Street Journal on the “Green on Green” violence in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan as Mohammaddens of the majority Sunni sect take on their co-religionists of the minority Shia / Shiite sect.

For a country claimed to have been created as a safe haven for the Mohammaddens of the Indian Sub-Continent, the level of Mohammadden on Mohammadden violence inspired by difference s in the interpretation of Mohammaddenism, is disgracefully high:

Pakistan's Low-Grade Civil War : Anti-Shiite violence by Sunni extremists has been spreading.

arun · Post by **arun** » 15 Sep 2011 07:26

X Posted from the TSP thread.

The Christian Science Monitor on the role of Mohammadden preachers from groups like the Tablighi Jamaat, Hizb Ut Tahrir and Dawat-e-Islami, in fostering Islamic Terrorism:

Pakistan's Islamic preachers: Gateway to radicalization?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 Sep 2011 08:13

FBI training manual:
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/09 ... s-radical/

FBI Teaches Agents: ‘Mainstream’ Muslims Are ‘Violent, Radical’

Image:
http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/dange ... raph_1.jpg

An FBI presentation titled “Militancy Considerations” measures the relationship between piety and violence among the texts of the three Abrahamic faiths. As time goes on, the followers of the Torah and the Bible move from “violent” to “non-violent.” Not so for devotees of the Koran, whose “moderating process has not happened.” The line representing violent behavior from devout Muslims flatlines and continues outward, from 610 A.D. to 2010. In other words, religious Muslims have been and always will be agents of aggression.

Actually, the original doc. divides Muslims also into moderates and radicals. The moderates follow the same curve as moderate Christians and Jews.
http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/dange ... ations.pdf (PDF) (I'm not offering any apology for the FBI, they should have better and less inflammatory material with which to teach agents.)

Also see: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/07 ... 101-guide/

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 16 Sep 2011 00:11

xposting
Sri Lanka Buddhist monks destroy Muslim shrine

A group of Buddhist monks in Sri Lanka led a crowd that demolished a Muslim shrine last week, the BBC has learned.

This incident took place on Saturday in Anuradhapura, an ancient Buddhist city and Unesco world heritage site.

The monk who led the group told the BBC he did it because the shrine was on land that was given to Sinhalese Buddhists 2,000 years ago.

But a prominent Muslim in the area said he was very sad and the sentiment was shared by many Sinhalese too.

A Sri Lankan news website showed photographs of a crowd including monks apparently reducing a small structure to a pile of rubble.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Sep 2011 01:33

A-Gupta, Pass those on the Fareed bhai!

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 16 Sep 2011 03:25

FBI's Islamophobic training material for its counterterrorism agents.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/09 ... s-radical/

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 16 Sep 2011 05:29

If it really teaching its agents the true nature of Islam then FBI needs to be congratulated.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Sep 2011 06:11

A_Gupta wrote:
Actually, the original doc. divides Muslims also into moderates and radicals. The moderates follow the same curve as moderate Christians and Jews.
http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/dange ... ations.pdf (PDF) (I'm not offering any apology for the FBI, they should have better and less inflammatory material with which to teach agents.)

It's very good and worth archiving. They tell it like it is.

Wrt to Pakistan, The above graphs could be seen in conjunction with the Venn diagram below to understand the points of agreement between the moderates and the radicals. The FBI graph misses that connection and misses the point that moderation is one end of a spectrum that where radicals are at the other end. There is no exact dividing line. Click on image

arun · Post by **arun** » 17 Sep 2011 06:51

A_Gupta wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... efits.html
Some Asian families in Britain are having too many children in order to claim extra welfare payments, Britain’s first female Asian peer claimed last night.

Baroness Flather accused the Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities of failing to adopt the values of British society and said they should have their benefits slashed.

Grand-daughter of Sir Ganga Ram and member of the UK House of Lords Baroness Shreela Flather writes an article herself in the Daily Mail on the practise of Mohammadden immigrants from the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and Bangladesh to indulge in polygamy and breed large families in order to milk benefits from the UK’s welfare system:

Polygamy, welfare benefits and an insidious silence

arun · Post by **arun** » 17 Sep 2011 07:04

Suspected Islamists kill four at bar in northern Nigeria

Wounded troops shot dead after bomb in Thai south

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 18 Sep 2011 22:56

Religious Unity Regulation prohibits preaching a religion except Islam

MALE, September 17 (HNS) – President’s Office has gazetted the controversial Religious Unity Regulation, declaring it an offence to preach a religion except Islam in the Maldives.

The 12-clause regulation makes it mandatory for preachers of Islam, both locals and foreigners, to have a first degree in a field of Islamic education from a ministry-approved college, university or centre....

The regulation, which instructs scholars to consider the social harmony, states practices that should be avoided in preaching Islam in the Maldives, including the practice of making comments in contradiction with prophetic traditions and majority view of the scholars....

The regulation also prohibits comments of hatred towards people of other religions, spreading a religion other than Islam and using an object that resembles a sign of a religion other than Islam

A person who violates the regulation will be sentenced to 2-5 years in prison, banishment or house arrest.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 19 Sep 2011 02:10

Anindya wrote:Religious Unity Regulation prohibits preaching a religion except Islam

MALE, September 17 (HNS) – President’s Office has gazetted the controversial Religious Unity Regulation, declaring it an offence to preach a religion except Islam in the Maldives.

The 12-clause regulation makes it mandatory for preachers of Islam, both locals and foreigners, to have a first degree in a field of Islamic education from a ministry-approved college, university or centre....

The regulation, which instructs scholars to consider the social harmony, states practices that should be avoided in preaching Islam in the Maldives, including the practice of making comments in contradiction with prophetic traditions and majority view of the scholars....

The regulation also prohibits comments of hatred towards people of other religions, spreading a religion other than Islam and using an object that resembles a sign of a religion other than Islam

A person who violates the regulation will be sentenced to 2-5 years in prison, banishment or house arrest.

About Religion in Maldives http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maldives#Religion:

Islam is the only official religion of The Maldives. The open practice of all other religions is forbidden and such actions are liable to prosecution under the law of the country. According to the revised constitution, in article two, it says that the republic "is based on the principles of Islam." Article nine says that "a non-Muslim may not become a citizen of the Maldives"; number ten says that "no law contrary to any principle of Islam can be applied in the Maldives." Article nineteen states that "citizens are free to participate in or carry out any activity that is not expressly prohibited by sharia or by the law."

arun · Post by **arun** » 19 Sep 2011 23:05

X Posted from the TSP thread.

Green on Green violence in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Mohammaddens of the Shia / Shiite and their co-religionists of the Sunni Mohammadden sect take each other on in the Muzaffargarh district of Punjab province:

Two killed as Malik Ishaq continues preaching tour

arun · Post by **arun** » 19 Sep 2011 23:27

Given the BBC has indicated that the arrests are connected to an investigation that “relates to suspected Islamist extremism” this is an appropriate thread to solely post for now.

As for the future, given the predilection of individuals originating in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to indulge in acts of Islamic Terrorism, I expect this story will shortly need to be X posted to the Pakistani Role in Global Terrorism thread:

Seven held in Birmingham anti-terror operation

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Sep 2011 06:33

Cross post. It is too good to leave out of here

Anujan wrote:Reposing a blog post I came across

Among The Believers by Naipaul – A Review (Part 1 of 3)

The latest controversy surrounding VS Naipaul’s statement about women writers re-kindled my interest in his works. I read his book “Among the believers–An Islamic Journey”. It is a travelogue of Naipaul’s travel (in 1979) through Islamic countries. Not Saudi Arabia, but the countries of the “converted peoples”. The countries which are separated from Arabia either through heresy (Iran, with its Shiite beliefs) or through distance — Pakistan, Malaysia and Indonesia.

In these travels Naipaul talks to a cross section of the society: people from drivers, students, guides, government officials to people of power like Ayatollah Khalkhali and Anwar Ibrahim (during his student politics days). Naipaul then synthesizes his experiences into a commentary on the history of the people, their faith, the impact of their faith on their way of life. This book written in the early 80′s offers a perceptive and prescient analysis of the impact of Islam on the politics and society of these countries.

This review is divided into three parts. The first two parts are about Naipaul’s impressions of Islam: Its effect on the culture and attitude of the people and the politics and society of these countries. The third part is about Naipaul’s impressions of Pakistan.Naipaul comes across as a man with a sharp sense of observation and intellect and a sharper tongue. His analysis of the role of Islam in the countries he visits is brutal and honest. The first of the two recurring themes of his work (the second theme in the second review) is:

The Lack of Solutions in Political Islam

Naipaul’s most vehement opinions about Islam have to do with (his) perceived misuse of Islam by a set of aggrieved people and the lack of solutions in Islam to address the very grievances of these people, which made them turn to religion in the first place. For example, in Iran, what started off as a revolution triggered by the injustices of the Shah, quickly took on an Islamic fervor. Naipaul is pessimistic about the ability of this fervor to carry the civilization forward. About Ayatollah Khomeini, Naipaul says

He was the kind of man who, without political doctrine, only with resentments, had made the Iranian revolution
This theme of lack of political solutions in Islam and the adoption of Islam by aggrieved people is their search for solutions (which do not exist in Islam) to their grievances pervades Naipaul’s keen commentary. About the Islamic fervor in the “born again” Muslims in Malaysia, Naipaul observes
The new men of the villages, who feel they have already lost so much, find their path blocked at every turn. Money, development, education have awakened them only to the knowledge that the world is not like their village, that the world is not their own. Their rage—the rage of pastoral people with limited skills, limited money, and a limited grasp of the world—is comprehensive. Now they have a weapon: Islam. It is their way of getting even with the world. It serves their grief, their feeling of inadequacy, their social rage and racial hate. This Islam is more than the old religion of their village. The Islam the missionaries bring is a religion of impending change and triumph; it comes as part of a world movement. In Readings in Islam, a local missionary magazine, it can be read that the West, in the eyes even of its philosophers, is eating itself up with its materialism and greed. The true believer, with his thoughts on the afterlife, lives for higher ideals. For a nonbeliever, with no faith in the afterlife, life is a round of pleasure.
Thus Naipaul attributes the fervor of the “born again” Muslims as their attempt at satiating their rage at the perceived inequities due to their inability to deal with the modern times. He also comments on the use of Islam by the Malays as a tool to look down upon the Chinese–who through their hard work and entrepreneurial skills outstrip the Malays in education and business. Malays perceive the Chinese to be unclean, due to their animist beliefs and pork eating. But of Malays he says
If the Chinese convert to Islam, the Malays would become Buddhists
But Islam has offered no solution to social inequities or injustices in Iran. During Naipaul’s trip, the Kurds were massacred, the communists brutally suppressed. The very acts of suppression and brutality for which the Shah was despised are now justified in the name of Islam. Malays, in their search for equality, have built a framework of race-based discrimination rooted in Islam. Pakistan, in its search for identity and a paradise for Muslims was under military rule with mobs attacking newspapers, jailed journalists and the brutal massacre of the Balochs. The lack of political solution in Islam, Naipaul deems as a intrinsic structural flaw in the religion itself:
Religion, which filled men’s days with rituals and ceremonies of worship, which preached the afterlife, at the same time gave men the sharpest sense of worldly injustice and made that part of religion. This late-twentieth-century Islam appeared to raise political issues. But it had the flaw of its origins—the flaw that ran right through Islamic history: to the political issues it raised it offered no political or practical solution. It offered only the faith. It offered only the Prophet, who would settle everything—but who had ceased to exist. This political Islam was rage, anarchy.
Naipaul further argues that contrary to the contention of the Islamic fundamentalists, there is no scope for Islam prescribing an institutionalized method of cratering to people’s political and social needs while taking their civilization forward. Because:
The Islamic fundamentalist wish is to work back to such a whole, for them a God-given whole, but with the tool of faith alone—belief, religious practices and rituals. It is like a wish—with intellect suppressed or limited, the historical sense falsified—to work back from the abstract to the concrete, and to set up the tribal walls again. It is to seek to re-create something like a tribal or a city-state that—except in theological fantasy—never was. The Koran is not the statute book of a settled golden age; it is the mystical or oracular record of an extended upheaval, widening out from the Prophet to his tribe to Arabia.
Thus, his conclusion is two-fold:
1. Islam was used by aggrieved people who do not know where to look for solutions, and
2. Islam, in an intrinsic and structural way, provides no political solution to these people

This conclusion cannot be dismissed as shallow opinions of a man who is hostile to Islam and ignorant of its key tenets, but rather can be countered (if at all) only by equally keen and perceptive arguments.

Next: Naipaul’s observation of the relationship of Islam with the West.

member_19686 · Post by **member_19686** » 20 Sep 2011 17:38

"moderate" Indonesia:

Mob Destroys Four Wayang Statues
Yuli Krisna | September 19, 2011

Bandung. Four statues depicting characters from traditional Javanese puppetry were vandalized and burned on Sunday in Purwakarta, West Java.

Local police chief Adj. Sr. Comr. Bachtiar Ujang Purnama said police were still investigating the case. “The Purwakarta police dete ctives are in the process of identifying the people involved in the vandalism,” Bachtiar told the Jakarta Globe.

“We want the public to know that this kind of damage is against the law and these actions should not be repeated. We encourage everyone to keep Purwakarta peaceful.”

Television station Metro TV reported that a mob coming from a post-Idul Fitri prayer at the city’s Grand Mosque was responsible for the damage. Thousands of people descended on the Comro area of the city, where they tied ropes to the statue of puppet character Gatot Kaca before trying to pull it off of its foundation. The statue finally collapsed after the rope was tied to a moving van.

The crowd then targeted the statue of Semar, another puppet character situated in the Bunder area. The mob threw rocks and pulled it to the ground before hitting it with sticks and metal rods then setting it on fire.

The statue of puppet character Bima in the Ciwareng area was also targeted, as was the “Welcome” statue on Jalan Gandanegara, where the Purwakarta District office is located. Both statues were also destroyed and set on fire.

The mob then moved to statues depicting the twin brothers Nakula and Sadewa. Hundreds of police and army officers were already there guarding the final two statues. The mob dispersed when it started raining.

Bachtiar said police questioned the organizers of the post-Idul Fitri celebration to find out how participants came to valdalize the four statues.

Although it is still unknown if the hard-line Islamic People’s Forum (FUI) are responsible for the damage, FUI was opposed to the statues when the project was announced by the city administration last year.

FUI had said the statues were “against the Islamic identity of the city” and claimed the statues would encourage people to have “superstitious beliefs.”

Hard-line Muslim groups have vandalized statues and monuments — considered a form of idolatry by some conservative Muslims — in the past.

Members of the Islamic Defenders Front (FPI) in Bekasi last year pushed for the dismantling of the “Tiga Mojang” statue, which they deemed offensive while hard-line groups in North Sumatra rallied for the removal of a Buddhist statue at a temple, which the groups deemed “offended Muslims” in the area.

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/mob ... ues/466195

arun · Post by **arun** » 20 Sep 2011 22:19

X Posted from the Oppression of Minorities in Pakistan thread.

In the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, self claimed haven for the Mohammaddens of the Indian Sub-Continent neither the “Islamic Republic” nor the “Safe haven for Mohammaddens” tag is sufficient for Mohammaddens belonging to the minority Shia / Shiite to escape the depredations of their co-religionists.

Shiite pilgrims travelling to Iran ordered off bus and shot dead in Mastung, Balochistan:

Pakistani gunmen 'kill 26 Shiite pilgrims'

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 20 Sep 2011 22:37

The statue of puppet character Bima in the Ciwareng area was also targeted, as was the “Welcome” statue on Jalan Gandanegara, where the Purwakarta District office is located. Both statues were also destroyed and set on fire.

The mob then moved to statues depicting the twin brothers Nakula and Sadewa. Hundreds of police and army officers were already there guarding the final two statues. The mob dispersed when it started raining.

These are statues for Bhima, Nakul and Sachdeva from the Mahabharat. So the pious seem to be putting the fear of Islam into the more pious in Indonesia too. Slowly but surely the 'moderate' voices will be silenced and Nations like Malaysia and Indonesia will resemble Pakistan and Somalia. Unless an Ataturk silences the pious voices mercilessly..Democratic norms will not work within a Muslim majority nation.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 20 Sep 2011 23:09

harbans wrote:Slowly but surely the 'moderate' voices will be silenced and Nations like Malaysia and Indonesia will resemble Pakistan and Somalia. Unless an Ataturk silences the pious voices mercilessly..Democratic norms will not work within a Muslim majority nation.

Harbans, here's a helpful table I had posted in another thread:
The 30 forms of materialistic imbalance

Political Islamism based on irridentism, rage and sorrow over loss of past 'glory', or ambition for future glory is a dwindling spiral that follows the rightmost column of the table, with various other social and intellectual indicators following in synch:

1. The subconscious motivations for cultish Islamism first makes democracy and individual freedom to learn seem unworkable, weak and chaotic.

2. Then it leads to Islamist populism via socialistic prescriptions, communal charity and opportunistic politics of social justice and the moral high ground.

3. Then it leads to isolationist tendencies of protectionism and separatism from the 'Other'.

4. Then when it is in the majority within its separated environment, it merges with and rides the same tribal, racial, civilizational and national structures which it earlier claimed to be above. It merges with whichever nationalism can carry it swiftest to power within a given target environment.

5. This slowly gives way to despotism and dictatorship in the name of social unity and control, citing the 'necessity' for greater consolidation and dirigibility to keep the foe ('Other') from interfering or outmaneuvring the Islamist state.

6. Finally this strange political state of affairs, denial of human rights to members, hyped sense of political mission to save the world from Satan, ect must be justified by formalized religious law. The will of "God" overrules the aspirations of mankind.

We saw this with Iran, we are seeing it with Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc. Different Islamist nations will take their appropriate positions along the politician-businessman-criminal nexus that undergirds civilizational power structures. Iran is maneuvring towards the role of political leadership. Pakistan sits astride the narco-terrorist criminal networks spanning Afghanistan, India, Horn of Africa, etc, etc.

I wonder, though whether an "unravelling" of such a dwindling spiral necessarily means a reverse order of the same sequence, i.e., I wonder whether an Ataturk really reverses Islamist psychological memes. I think not, and I believe history bears that out at this point.

IMHO, only a superior civilizational narrative and cultural tools that can edify human minds and hearts towards real social order with individual freedom can serve as an antidote to the cultish religious dwindling spiral -- and that too only if it aggressively and compassionately confronts and blows away the ideas and structures that hold the population hostage to this aberration.

Upendra · Post by **Upendra** » 20 Sep 2011 23:41

Al-Shabab radio gives weapons prize to Somali children

A radio station run by Somalia's al-Shabab Islamist group has awarded weapons to children who won a Koran-reciting competition.

Andulus radio, based near Mogadishu, gave the group which won first prize in the Ramadan contest an AK-47 rifle and the equivalent of $700 (£450).

The second prize-winners received an AK-47 and $500, while the third prize was two hand grenades and $400.

Al-Shabab, linked to al-Qaeda, controls much of southern and central Somalia.

It recently withdrew from the capital, Mogadishu, where the UN-backed government is in charge.

Four children, aged 10-17, were chosen to represent each district in the competition held during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, which ended in August.

"Children should use one hand for education and the other for a gun to defend Islam," senior al-Shabab official Mukhtar Robow told the prize-giving ceremony in Elasha, 20km (12 miles) from Mogadishu.

The children were also given religious books.

The BBC's Mohamed Moalimu in Mogadishu says this is the third year the contest has been held.

In previous years, when the competition was organised in the southern port of Kismayo, the first prize included an RPG (rocket-propelled grenade launcher).

Somalia is currently suffering from a severe drought, which has been declared a famine in some areas run by al-Shabab.

Al-Shabab is restricting access to many international aid groups, saying they have a political agenda and are exaggerating the scale of the drought.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 21 Sep 2011 00:57

Islamophobia in Canada
Worth a read for all the undercurrents
http://toronto.mediacoop.ca/story/islam ... ronto/8179

member_19686 · Post by **member_19686** » 21 Sep 2011 03:44

We can integrate all religions and races except Islam - Lee Kuan Yew

In the book, Mr Lee, when asked to assess the progress of multiracialism in
Singapore, said: "I have to speak candidly to be of value, but I do not wish to
offend the Muslim community.

"I think we were progressing very nicely until the surge of Islam came, and if
you asked me for my observations, the other communities have easier integration
– friends, intermarriages and so on, Indians with Chinese, Chinese with Indians
– than Muslims. That's the result of the surge from the Arab states."

He added: "I would say today, we can integrate all religions and races except
Islam."

He also said: "I think the Muslims socially do not cause any trouble, but they
are distinct and separate."

Mr lee then went on to speak of how his own generation of politicians who worked
with him had integrated well, including sitting down and eating together. He
said: "But now, you go to schools with Malay and Chinese, there's a halal and
non-halal segment and so too, the universities. And they tend to sit separately
so as not to be contaminated. All that becomes a social divide."

He added that the result was a "veil" across peoples. Asked what Muslims in
Singapore needed to do to integrate, he replied: "Be less strict on Islamic
observances and say `Okay, I'll eat with you.'"

Describing Singapore in the book as an "80-storey building on marshy land," Lee
said it must contend with hostility from larger Muslim neighbors.

"We've got friendly neighbors? Grow up… There is this drive to put us down
because we are interlopers," he said, citing alleged Malaysian and Indonesian
efforts to undermine Singapore's crucial port business.

Singapore was ejected from the Malaysian federation in 1965 in large part due to
Kuala Lumpur's preferential policies for ethnic Malays, and has since built up
Southeast Asia's most modern military to deter foreign aggression.

Turning to local politics, Lee said the ruling People's Action Party (PAP),
which has been in power since 1959 when Singapore gained political autonomy from
colonial ruler Britain, will someday lose its grip on power.

"There will come a time when eventually the public will say, look, let's try the
other side, either because the PAP has declined in quality or the opposition has
put up a team which is equal to the PAP… That day will come."

"In the next 10 years to 20 years, I don't think it'll happen. Beyond that, I
cannot tell."

Lee said that despite a survey showing the contrary, he believed Singaporeans
were not yet ready for a non-ethnic-Chinese prime minister.

"A poll says 90 percent of Chinese Singaporeans say they will elect a
non-Chinese as PM. Yes, this is the ideal. You believe these polls? Utter
rubbish. They say what is politically correct," he stated.

He also defended the policy of promoting marriage between highly-educated
Singaporeans, a policy seen by critics as a form of social engineering, and
dismissed the notion of love at first sight.

"People get educated, the bright ones rise, they marry equally well-educated
spouses. The result is their children are smarter than those who are gardeners.
Not that all the children of gardeners are duds. Occasionally 2 grey horses
produce a white horse but very few . If you have 2 white horses, the chances are
you breed white horses. It's seldom spoken publicly because those who are white
horses say, "You're degrading me". But its a fact of life. You get a good mare,
you don't want a dud stallion to breed with your good mare. You get a poor foal.

Your mental capacity and your EQ and the rest of you, 70 to 80% is genetic. "

People who are "attracted by physical characteristics" may regret it, he said.

More recently:

From WikiLeaks website:

Asked by Rep. Rangel how organized terrorists were
internationally, MM Lee responded that orthodox Islam was a
powerful force capable of recruiting volunteers for terrorist
groups. He noted Singapore's experience in 2001 and 2002 in
dealing with Jemaah Islamiyah's terrorist plots in Singapore
and characterized Islam as a "venomous religion."
The problem of Islamic terrorism would not be easily
extirpated, observed MM Lee. While Muslims in Southeast Asia
were traditionally moderate and tolerant, they had been
affected by radicalism emanating from Middle East and the
spread of wahhabism from Saudi Arabia. Singapore's Muslim
leaders were rational and educated in English and the GOS
kept a limit on madrassah-based education. He stressed that
moderate Muslims had to be encouraged to stand up and speak
out against radicalism. They needed confidence that they
could win. We could get to the tipping point, noted MM Lee,
but he didn't know how long it would take.

Lee rejected the WikiLeaks cable claim by saying that it’s false. According to Channel News Asia, he reiterated that nowhere does it record him describing Islam as “venomous.” However, he did talk about radical Islamic fundamentalists such as the Jemaah Islamiyah, and reinforced that Singapore Muslim leaders are rational, as “moderate” Muslims are urged to be critical of Muslim “radicals.”

http://asiancorrespondent.com/64203/wik ... -religion/

arun · Post by **arun** » 21 Sep 2011 08:14

Upendra wrote:Al-Shabab radio gives weapons prize to Somali children

A radio station run by Somalia's al-Shabab Islamist group has awarded weapons to children who won a Koran-reciting competition.

Andulus radio, based near Mogadishu, gave the group which won first prize in the Ramadan contest an AK-47 rifle and the equivalent of $700 (£450).

The second prize-winners received an AK-47 and $500, while the third prize was two hand grenades and $400.

Al-Shabab, linked to al-Qaeda, controls much of southern and central Somalia.

It recently withdrew from the capital, Mogadishu, where the UN-backed government is in charge.

Four children, aged 10-17, were chosen to represent each district in the competition held during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, which ended in August.

"Children should use one hand for education and the other for a gun to defend Islam," senior al-Shabab official Mukhtar Robow told the prize-giving ceremony in Elasha, 20km (12 miles) from Mogadishu.

The children were also given religious books.

The BBC's Mohamed Moalimu in Mogadishu says this is the third year the contest has been held.

In previous years, when the competition was organised in the southern port of Kismayo, the first prize included an RPG (rocket-propelled grenade launcher).

Somalia is currently suffering from a severe drought, which has been declared a famine in some areas run by al-Shabab.

Al-Shabab is restricting access to many international aid groups, saying they have a political agenda and are exaggerating the scale of the drought.

Handing out AK 47 assault rifles and Hand Grenades as prizes in a children’s contest for reciting the Mohammadden holy book, the Koran / Quran,sponsored by an organisation claimed to be inspired by Mohammaddenism is certainly not an endorsement of the proposition that Islam is a “Religion of Peace”.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 21 Sep 2011 09:59

Can watch the full thing, but after 8:30 mins it will get rather exciting..

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 21 Sep 2011 23:46

It is essential for US not to block the Palestinian campaign for UN membeship. US is trying to show a positive image of itself among Muslim countries while US action of blocking is not going to help their image among Muslims. US should realise the fact that there are two equal forces are working - one is those among Hamaz who wanted to not to recognise Israel and the other is those in Israel who do not wwant any Palestianian state to exist. While I agree that there should be a complete protect of Israelis from Palestinians there should also be a recognition of Palenians as indepedent nation soon. This will certainly contribute towards image of the West among the Muslims which is getting positive now. This attitude of US towards palestinian has a lot to do about the Christian Zionists attituds and their votes in US. Such atitude has often prepared, produced and spread negative information about Islam time to time that contributes public support for such issues for Israelis easily.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 21 Sep 2011 23:58

The image of the US will remain the "Great Satan" - to be milked for benefits and political objectives, but always target for final elimination, and Islamization. The psy-ops of if you just do this once - we will love you forever - is a very old Islamist trick. Their founder started it - or according to claims was instructed to do so by higher authorities, right at the very beginning of the movement. This was what was systematically applied to first gain shelter, and then displace, and finally expel the Jews of Yathrib - now called the Medina.

Islamic demand will never stop with a Palestinian statehood. It will only be the first step in neutralizing adversarial influences in global politics. International legal systems and precedences can be use dto a much greater effectiveness by the Islamics once Palestine gets statehood. It will be able to negotiate, and build up - and essentially serve as the forward base for the next stage of Islamic design - elimination of Israel, or any non-Muslim political/military power in the ME.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 22 Sep 2011 18:52

brihaspati ji,

what are the designs of US in this? I think it is necessary for Israel to survive and be powerful wrt its neighbors. But US/UK are changing their tunes. have US interests become so divergent from Israels' that US is essentially embarking on a new course in the MENA?

is this what you meant when you said that US no longer understands if it playing for economic interests or religious interests? in other words, delusion and confusion b/c of the EJ infiltration into elite circles?

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 22 Sep 2011 20:10

For me if Palestinian issue is settled then Islamic terror will have less cause in itself. The justification of Muslims being persecuted by West and Israel will not stand on its own. Even after giving independenec to Palestine, Israel will still be powerful. They cannot be shaken by any neighbours. In fact Hamas will disappear slowly. yes, Islamic aspirations are more than Palestine. West will also have stronger argument to protect Israel at all costs. Some of the historical events have to happen with confidence and courage and also with conditions. Palestinians should also accept Israel as a state and acknowledge and help their security in full swing as a neighbour. This will reduce negative image of West as well as Israel among Muslims. Islamic terror has to be contained within its own ranks and governments. After postSaddam, Post Gaddaffi, not much support are available for the terror groups except in Pakistan. For me solving this issue may lead to less phobia between communities and nations at large with its own risks.

Islamicphobia and terrorism cannot be addressed unless these issues are addressed. We miss statesmen like Vajpayee who nearly solved the issue of Kashmir (in an Indian way) at one point of time which could have made India very strong and addressed the issue of terrorism to large extent. So solving some of the core issues is essential for countering terrorism as well as reducing the fear of religious communities among others.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 22 Sep 2011 20:17

^ Like the sub-continental issues disappeared after sob-continental muslims get a state of their own?

The fobia between abrahamic communities is not because any specific historical events. That fobia has been hard-wired into their scriptures, starting with OT.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Sep 2011 20:19

Palestine and all other grievances are just that. The underlaying circumstance is the justification of violence to achieve desired ends in a religous state.
Please don't bring in Kashmir in the same post as Palestine.

Thanks, ramana

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Sep 2011 21:17

joshvajohn wrote:For me if Palestinian issue is settled then Islamic terror will have less cause in itself.

No joshvaohn no! It will only make it worse. Once a quarter is given islamist will scent weakness in the giver and claim that what they got was not good enough.

First of all Islamists must stop ALL violence even if they say Quran tells them to be violent. Any talk starts after violence has been completely given up. Since violence is intrinsic to Islam they will never give it up. Unless of course islam is really a religion of peace in which case violence should not be intrinsic and theer should be no problem giving up violence.

First things first. NO VIOLENCE.

sum · Post by **sum** » 22 Sep 2011 21:21

For me if Palestinian issue is settled then Islamic terror will have less cause in itself. The justification of Muslims being persecuted by West and Israel will not stand on its own.

Do you really believe this?

IIRC, it will only lead to calls of how the Kaffir was finally ousted and newer causes like Kashmir. Xinjiang etc will be taken up...

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 22 Sep 2011 22:57

joshvajohn wrote:For me if Palestinian issue is settled then Islamic terror will have less cause in itself. The justification of Muslims being persecuted by West and Israel will not stand on its own.

Islamism is there because that is the most pure form of Islam, everything else being a dilution towards Humanism. So it is there as long as Islam is there. Islamophobia is a natural reaction to Islamism. As such both will exist as long as Islam exists, which from today's PoV is like for eternity, as nobody really has found an Ark of Truth as yet.

This is the most basic con by Islamists: "Give us this, and we will stop acting like mad!" One group makes that promise, and if delivered as per the deal, would cease hostilities for a short period, but all other groups would continue with their 'struggle'!

Those who talk of compromise and giving are really doing a big disservice.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Sep 2011 23:17

e="RajeshAis a natural reaction to Islamism. As such both will exist as long as Islam exists, which from today's PoV is like for eternity, as nobody really has found an Ark of Truth as yet.

Ori's were also People of Book roaming ,invading galaxies , coverting and enforcing true revelations . But they too got destroyed by human intelligence.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 23 Sep 2011 00:57

>>For me if Palestinian issue is settled then Islamic terror will have less cause in itself.

Israel gave back to Lebanon all the territory it held that belonged to the latter. Has the situation improved? Clearly not.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 23 Sep 2011 00:59

Prem ji,

it is pretty clear from where Stargate SG1 creative team took their ideas. Some discussion is here.

Upendra · Post by **Upendra** » 24 Sep 2011 07:57

for joshvajohn

On topic
peace , peace and more peace