Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 12 Oct 2011 21:28

^ An example of reverse (if that makes sense) conversion of Chenghiz Khan's son/grand-son.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 12 Oct 2011 22:42

There is one common factor, thread running through the both sides of argument. Indicstanis have accepted and adopted many influences from outside, transofrming them with the infusuion of Indic spirit and values. BUTTTT, one factor, one system,one phenomenon,though existent with us over many centuries have been keep getting rejected as not one of us, not our own , kept and treated as alien and not worthy of acceptance . This factor exists consciously as well unconsciousley and one of these day, somewhere, someone, somehow will find a perfect solution and recommend corrective course of action to make necessary amend and establish Peace/Shanti.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 12 Oct 2011 23:03

Advait: I am no guru, but I can tell you there are some BRFites who dream of using migration to solve India and World's problems. I know folks, outside BRF, who do think a Hindu Renaissance is happening outside India. When humans are left to nature, they would gravitate to the Indic values of pluralism. However, we do our in built flaws too. Hopefully, we learn as much as we contribute to make the World a better place.

You talk about "armed settlers" ? If we don't tether our dreams to some reality, they become wet dreams onlee.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 13 Oct 2011 00:11

Advait wrote:Lawless Somalia seems like a good candidate. Look at U.S and the other New World countries today. They all started off as small outposts and are now continent sized countries. A few thousand Hindus can start by doing a Mayflower.

If admins and gurus allow it, can we start a thread on this topic or is it too un-PC. I would like to expand on this and the reasons for this.

Advait ji,

Perhaps you may like to use a thread where there has already been some thinking in this direction. Sorry to put it this way, but the thread "Devise military solutions to the Somali piracy irritant" has experienced the full effect of my "wet dreams" of effecting a demographic change in Somalia! The wet dreams start here.

There are a couple of maps there, you might like to have a look at them!

However I would consider Nepal [2] [3] [4] to be a very good candidate for a Hindu state. Another is of course Bangabhumi [2] [3]. You may also consider Rakhine State [2] [3] [4] [5] in Myanmar as propitious.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 14 Oct 2011 01:15

There has been the idea of founding a movement or base in remote or difficult terrain, and expand from there. This was not however about separatism, but nurturing a nucleus that could sustain itself and grow and hopefully expand in the future to take back what is deemed to be birthright.

It does not or did not always have to be about "remote" or difficult places only. Nucleus can be founded right in the heart of hostile territories - as the Sikh Gurus showed. But the more common examples have been the "remote" base ideas, like the "marya" [youth/fighter] led by one ChandraGupta around the territory now swept by the Talebs [and probably descendants of those who moved around with ChandraGupta], Satavahanas to Hukka-Bukka in Dakshin, to Chandellas near Behr, to the long tradition of resistance in the remote forested terrain of Dandak and Andhra. Even the legendary founder of the Dhaka Anushilan Samity, wrote of founding a "base" within the difficult terrains of the NE and befriend the indigenous peoples and harass the Brits at first in guerrilla warfare.

But none of them seem to want to carve out a separate territory and remain there as a "hard state". They all recognize the need to both nurture the "nucleus" at first - and hence perhaps "isolation" for initial protection, but then they all plan to expand and they do not restrict their identification within the restricted definition of the nucleus.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 15 Oct 2011 22:35

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=16018

Coast may become off-limits to DRDO

The State Government on Friday indicated it might not allow Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to use the State’s coastline for carrying out seaward artillery practice and manoeuvres.
"Let them (DRDO) first stop objecting to our port projects,” Chief Secretary B K Patnaik told mediapersons after a meeting with DRDO officials here. He said the proposed port projects would certainly help the growth of the State and boost its economy. However, the efforts by the State Government has come to naught because of� objections from the DRDO.
The State Government has proposed to develop ports at Chudamani, Kirtania, Inchudi and Bahabalpur. But these projects are yet to get clearances from the Defence Ministry.
Though it was a regular practice by the DRDO to undertake artillery practice and manoeuvres along Balasore and Bhadrak coast but the State Government in February had refused to give permission to the defence establishment to use its shore.
“The Government refused to give permission to DRDO in February. No exercise has been carried out since then,” a senior official of Commerce and Transport Department said.� The State Government’s appeal to the Centre seeking intervention into the dispute with DRDO has been ignored by the Defence Ministry, the official said adding the Government wanted to set up ports without harming DRDO activities.

the language is curious. is something deeper being hinted or am I just seeing what I want to see?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Oct 2011 00:20

They want pro quid quo.Some chota babu decided to play tit for tat. he thinks DRDO objections to ports along Orissa coast are holding back Orissa economic development. Hence he wants to curtail DRDO weapons trials!

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 16 Oct 2011 01:07

Next time, some armed pakis come calling in Zodiacs, that babu will be right there to stamp his objection in triplicate..... geez, you can't make up this shyte.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 16 Oct 2011 01:19

Yedyurappa arrested. how will Karnataka be affected? INC++ have neutralized the threat of a charismatic leader of "saffron" in South. can BJP still rally its forces? IMO, Karnataka is a crucial testing ground. if, even after Yeddy's ousting, Saffron still retains or does better, it means that Indic has gained a level of "strength" in KA areas which cannot be neutralized by targeting "one man" at the top.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 16 Oct 2011 03:53

There is only one "political" family in India, absolutely above any "corruption" - while all around them, even their close aides and confidantes do get tainted. Isnt it quite a bit surprising, that none of our rashtryia anti-corruption sniffer canines ever find anything on this one particular family - even if they are swimming among sharks apparently? Maybe the story is not so unfair after all - because those who gain some reputation in the extra-corruption-free department from the family, meet with strange accidents or "misguided" hands of misguided assassins.

If this one-sided and exceptional purity story continues, I am not so sure that the regime can hold on to power in the long run. It is going against the interests of the long-term investors, and they will as quickly dump a family if necessary, as they are continuing to back up and cover for - right now.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 16 Oct 2011 04:01

devesh wrote:Yedyurappa arrested. how will Karnataka be affected? INC++ have neutralized the threat of a charismatic leader of "saffron" in South. can BJP still rally its forces? IMO, Karnataka is a crucial testing ground. if, even after Yeddy's ousting, Saffron still retains or does better, it means that Indic has gained a level of "strength" in KA areas which cannot be neutralized by targeting "one man" at the top.

Its just one small step in an encirclement plan. They are in a hurry - because they think that their time is running out. There will be a backlash, and in fact the backlash was prepared before moving against Y. There have been rumblings of dissent and this would be used.

But each such step taken by the current regime may appear brilliant tactical successes -just like US tacticians perhaps are applauded as. But each such short term brilliance piles up into long term disasters.

For one, the regime is convincing a lot of people that the rashtra is totally in the regime's pockets - and the rashtryia machinery simply acts as bootlickers and courtiers of a certain family and its coterie. This may seem innocent and nothing to worry about - but in the long term, it starts the process of alienation of those who feel cornered and who feel they have a legitimate claim on power while being deprived from it.

The Karnat BJP will take a slight beating, no doubt. Correctly handled, this should strengthen them. Every misuse and abuse of rashtryia machinery stamps both the coterie as well as the functionaries and "servants of the people" with a common agenda. You think these guys will not face any consequences? In India - children and descendants suffer horribly for the sins of their forefathers. I am sure the functionaries are well aware of this, but think that the current powers will keep their descendants safe.

Who knows what the future waits for them with!

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 16 Oct 2011 04:30

devesh wrote:Yedyurappa arrested. how will Karnataka be affected? INC++ have neutralized the threat of a charismatic leader of "saffron" in South. can BJP still rally its forces? IMO, Karnataka is a crucial testing ground. if, even after Yeddy's ousting, Saffron still retains or does better, it means that Indic has gained a level of "strength" in KA areas which cannot be neutralized by targeting "one man" at the top.

They rattled YSR son and got BJP financier and then, through different means, their strong leader in Karnataka. There may be slight hit in BJP growth prospects. However, to mask any election manipulations, they've built a case that BJP lost in Karnataka. Ironically, in the neighboring state they will say, "Jagan supported/joined back into Congress and so they won there".

It is glaringly noticeable that Notable corrupt Congress people are still roaming free. Congress is not only corrupt, they corrupted all Rastriya institutions and machinery. Unless there is transparency in elections, their position as it is now seems to continue well into the future. Only saving for the country will be if the visible opposition overwhelms their manipulations.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 17 Oct 2011 00:06

brihaspati wrote:
Its just one small step in an encirclement plan. They are in a hurry - because they think that their time is running out. There will be a backlash, and in fact the backlash was prepared before moving against Y. There have been rumblings of dissent and this would be used.

But each such step taken by the current regime may appear brilliant tactical successes -just like US tacticians perhaps are applauded as. But each such short term brilliance piles up into long term disasters.

For one, the regime is convincing a lot of people that the rashtra is totally in the regime's pockets - and the rashtryia machinery simply acts as bootlickers and courtiers of a certain family and its coterie. This may seem innocent and nothing to worry about - but in the long term, it starts the process of alienation of those who feel cornered and who feel they have a legitimate claim on power while being deprived from it.

The Karnat BJP will take a slight beating, no doubt. Correctly handled, this should strengthen them. Every misuse and abuse of rashtryia machinery stamps both the coterie as well as the functionaries and "servants of the people" with a common agenda. You think these guys will not face any consequences? In India - children and descendants suffer horribly for the sins of their forefathers. I am sure the functionaries are well aware of this, but think that the current powers will keep their descendants safe.

Who knows what the future waits for them with!

The foreign associations of top leadership is what has led to this feeling on invincibility. They believe that they have an out plan in the event things become too hot. The smaller congress fry does not realize that they will face the heat if and when their leaders abscond.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 17 Oct 2011 12:42

brihaspati wrote:There is only one "political" family in India, absolutely above any "corruption" - while all around them, even their close aides and confidantes do get tainted.

The Delhi grapewine is ringing that the non-Congress parties are ganging up against the weakest link of the Gandhi family - Robert vadra. RV manages the finances of the family, it is his fingers that are visible everywhere. So bringing him down will weaken the finances of the family as well as reduce their maneouverbility. It is only after that that the family will be targetted.

ManishH · Post by **ManishH** » 17 Oct 2011 13:22

devesh wrote:IMO, Karnataka is a crucial testing ground. if, even after Yeddy's ousting, Saffron still retains or does better, it means that Indic has gained a level of "strength" in KA areas which cannot be neutralized by targeting "one man" at the top.

deveshji, continuing down the chasm of OTisms on this thread ...

Neither is BSY/BJP the sole representative of saffron, nor was BSY brought down by the anti-saffron. BSY's downfall is chiefly due to his own mistakes and internal party factionalism. The man who drove the final nail was the tireless Lokayukta - Justice Hegde.

Indic culture has always been strong in Karunadu - it did not need BJP or BSY for any "strength". If anything, BSY's attempt to (mis)use sacred religious tradition in a petty rivalry might have hit him hard (the Dharmasthala Manjunatha incident).

PS: my feeling is the more decisively BSY/Katta/Reddy types are culled from BJP, the more long term popular support will it enjoy.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 17 Oct 2011 15:08

By the by,

Robert vadra is a huge investor in Gujarat based Adani, the relationship started in the year 2009. RV came to Ahmedabad and had an 8 hour long meeting.

After this meeting, Indian media speculated for a long time whether Adani is the Dhirubhai, that is, the vehicle of investment for the 'family'.

Since, Adani could not have made it big in Gujarat without Modi, it is important to consider the possibility that Modi and the 'family' have a tacit understanding. It could be political or economic or both. Modi will not disturb the family's wealth and family will support the way for Modi in Delhi as PM.

---------
OK, now for some speculation.

If the above is true, then it makes Robert Vadra no 1 enemy for the Advani camp - they will kill two birds with one stone - Modi and family's puppet Rahul Gandhi. Actually, make that three birds - include RV in this too.

IOW, while we can expect increased attacks on RV, I expect to see most of them coming from LKA camp. As well as the leftist/third front.

This leads me to speculate that a bizarre allience between Advani and lefties may become possible

But this HAS happened before - 1989 and 1996.

All it needs is an important ingredient -a candidate which is not unacceptable to anybody (since being acceptable to everyone in politics is impossible).

However, an even more bizarre coalition is one of Advani, lefties, and anti-Sonia congressis. This will be a sight to watch.

------------
We just have to watch the ongoing drama to see which way the bamboo is falling.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 17 Oct 2011 15:09

Now see this:

Arjun wrote:Is the export boom really Black Money coming back into India?

The researchers found that exports of metals and metal products increased from $13 billion to $29 billion, according to official data. But the companies in the BSE 500 increased such exports by less than a billion dollars. Official data say exports of copper articles more than quadrupled to Rs 36,700 crore. The big new buyer was China, not normally a buyer of brassware handicrafts . Opposition parties are suddenly interested in the matter since one of the bestknown exporters of brassware is Robert Vadra.

So, is the attack on RV is already going on?

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 17 Oct 2011 18:05

abhishekcc ji,

it is possible that Modi has some kind of an understanding with dynasty. but they will never trust him completely. no matter the deals via middlemen, they might think that Modi is the kind of fellow who, after coming to power, would turn against them and free himself. Sonia still remembers PVNR. if a guy like PVNR, who didn't have "mass" support, could cause such takleef to INC, a guy like Modi could destroy a significant chunk of their funding interests.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 17 Oct 2011 18:37

I am only doing informed speculation

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 17 Oct 2011 21:11

The next few months will be the toughest for India from an internal polity perspective. Congress realizes that to even come back at the main opposition party they have to radically woo the group that votes en bloc. Expect the CVB and other freebies that will be hard to reverse.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 18 Oct 2011 02:28

ManishH wrote: Indic culture has always been strong in Karunadu - it did not need BJP or BSY for any "strength". If anything, BSY's attempt to (mis)use sacred religious tradition in a petty rivalry might have hit him hard (the Dharmasthala Manjunatha incident).

PS: my feeling is the more decisively BSY/Katta/Reddy types are culled from BJP, the more long term popular support will it enjoy.

Why does not similar (mis)use of religious tradition in similar petty rivalry hit stalwarts from the "rival" political side?

There is a crucial jump from culture to political mobilization that in turn advances the culture. This particular drama is important not because of personalities, Y or V. This should be seen as a geopolitical struggle to get rid of the "outposts" that prevent the complete encirclement of the central regions - Gujarat and Karnataka.

They need the coastal regions of the south, and the northern GV and Punjab-Surashtra arc. In the north green dominates almost absolutely, in the south it is a contest between green and white for power. In the eastern part of that circuit, red dominates. All three see security and expansive future in keeping their respective external connections and channels open. For this they seek to control the "frontiers", along the sea [for those who may have patrons with strong navies or maritime criminal networks] and along the land [for those who have patrons with strong armies and overland criminal networks]. At the moment therefore they will not encroach too much on each other's respective spheres of influence and are likely to collaborate.

One danger in becoming too "clean" according to the demands and agenda of your enemy - is that you lose control and interface to the seamy underbelly of society and region, the "criminal" networks - which will then fall like a ripe fruit back into the hands of your enemy who himself never gets "cleaned". Interfaces to these networks are important - at this particular stage. Operation "cleanup" is a crucial pawn-move aiming to reassert total control over the criminal circuit that now sustains green+white+red by targeting those "tainted" individuals outside the "chosen ones", who were capable of the interface.

The interface must be retained. Reconstructed if necessary. Not everything is possible directly through the rashtryia machinery -and what the rashtra cannot do directly, it achieves through the criminal networks. It is therefore crucial to prevent the concentration of both the legal and sub-legal powers in the hands of the small coterie that now runs the rsahtryia apparatus of power.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 18 Oct 2011 03:20

X-posting from the Red Menace thread:

All this stuff with Mamta Banerjee's electoral tactics, and post-election stance, brings to light one aspect of the Maoist insurgency which sets it apart from all other insurgencies India has had to contend with.

Other insurgencies... from Mizoram to Punjab... were dealt with by corralling their leaders into two camps. So-called "moderates" who were amenable to a political solution within the Indian constitution; and so-called "extremists" or "militants" who were adamant about armed struggle being the only path to success. The strategy was to incorporate the moderates within the political system, encouraging them to stand for elections and acquire a stake in a negotiated status quo, while going after the militants with the full might of our national security apparatus. Militants who surrendered were treated graciously and encouraged to join the moderate camp, redeeming themselves by joining the political process. Bhindranwales etc. notwithstanding... from a medium-to-long-term strategic viewpoint, when combating an established insurgency, this segregation of their leadership was the norm.

What is different about the Maoists is that this strategy of separation has not been applied. There is no hard line drawn between the moderates who could be wooed back into the political system, vs. the extremists who need to be rooted out and shot. The consistency of vision which placed national interest as paramount, has gone out the window, in favour of narrow political interests.

Political overtures and incentives are extended to Maoist leaders who continue to be active in parliamentary, state- and district-level politics during the daytime, while being actively involved in armed terrorist violence at night. Maoists can have their cake and eat it too... participate in "legitimate" politics while also waging war against the state. This is different from former Khalistanis or Mizo rebels who were given a choice; either the ballot box as our fellow citizen, or the gun as our enemy, but never both.

The result of this is that the line between politician and insurgent has become blurred. One aspect of this development, the leaching of moral authority from constitutional politics, has been a foregone conclusion ever since the entry of overt criminals into Indian electoral politics became a widely accepted norm. What is different now, and a very dangerous development in its own right... is that people who pick up the gun, along with the anti-national causes they represent... are becoming legitimized. From eating tainted food we have gone to swallowing poison whole. This is the other side of the coin.

This is a step further from mere mafia-types becoming "legitimized" as politicians. Dons, goondas and smugglers, after all, are only breaking the law for their profit. The Maoists, OTOH, are waging an ideological war that has as its goal the destruction of the Indian State as we know it. Bad enough that you could be both a smuggler and an MP. Today, you can be a lynchpin of electoral politics while fighting violently to undermine the very system that guarantees electoral franchise.

This development devolves from the gleeful willingness of the Mainovadi Congress Government to embrace armed groups who wage war against the very idea of India, as allies against opposition political parties in various states. Today you can be a Maoist "political figure" and a child-murdering terrorist at the SAME time, and Maino acolytes in the National Advisory Council will defend you from the justice of the Indian State as long as you serve the electoral interests of the Mainos.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 18 Oct 2011 06:34

Rudradev ji raises a very interesting issue. In fact two issues.

The first issue : why are the second phase Maoists not treated with the fragmentation strategy for dealing with insurgencies? Note that in the first phase, the fragmentation policy was adopted. This gave rise to the likes of Santosh Rana, (and to an extent the tail ends of the spectrum like A.K.Roy and even "Guruji").

Without going too deep, I would propose two main reasons behind this distinct dropping of the fragmentation strategy. The first was a temporary disruption in administrative thinking during the post-emergency interregnum, as well as a relative lull in Maoist activity while they regrouped [and big chunks were lying low in the Terai, BD and NE], and a corresponding perception in the centre of having broken the back of the Maoists.

However, an important international component in this was the secret negotiations that went on between USA and Mao leading to the official and overt sealing with a kiss between Nixon and Mao - of a new alignment between China and USA against the USSR. During the latter half of the 70's a strategic realignment was taking place in how the west viewed Maoism and how it planned to fragment the communist movement globally. In this, the Maoists gained a subtle but temporary respite almost globally - the result being that nowadays it is the Maoist version of communist insurgency that we still see in pockets within what are essentially regions/economies highly penetrated by the "west".

the second issue: Maoists in India combine two unique characteristics, they are predominantly from the majority "Hindu" or non-Muslim and non-Christian in origins, while being ideologically inclined towards rejecting "Hinduism".

Their turning towards armed insurgency is in the long tradition of SD based militancy that had in the past been harnessed by visionary leaders and intellectuals towards repulsing foreign invaders, as well as getting rid of indigenous rulers who had collaborated with foreigners - the mercantile interests that exploited the commons in collaboration, and establishing a new rashtra based on age-old principles of natural justice and fairness/welfare deeply imbedded in SD [ideas of rajya-kingship].

As long as Maoists maintain this thrust of going against the "Indian rashtra" in its current form together with their Marxism inspired anti-Hinduism - it is useful to a variety of interests. For the religious imperialists their anti-Hinduism is useful. For the formal national and transnational powers seeking to control India, the Maoists represent an useful opportunity to simultaneously weaken the rashtra, as well as manipulate them into carrying out atrocities which could simultaneously remove obstacles not normally possible within international practice as well as turn back on the very Maoists and mop them up.

This was a tactics used many times - over, with examples being putting Khomeini into power in Iran, and the elimination of the leftist insurgents during and after Mujib in BD.

For all of these "users" of Maoism, including those components of the current regime and rashtra who think that Maoists serve the useful purpose of absorbing the classical revolutionary urge in SD and channelizing it into an anti-Hindu movement - perhaps a teaser :

what if some find it useful to let this "use" of Maoists continue - because it simultaneously ideologically legitimizes armed overthrow of exploitative and unpopular regimes, while setting a precedent for future fragmentation strategy on the Maoists. That fragmentation however will be about targeting the Marxist bit being foreign and a cover for imperialism of the chinese variety - and reclaiming the memes used by the Maoists as being memes of SD itself?

Just a thought. Maoists are in effect doing our work. Preparing the ground. They are useful up to a time. Then they can be eliminated. They can be used both ways.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Oct 2011 06:44

devesh wrote:Yedyurappa arrested. how will Karnataka be affected?

BJP will emerge stronger. Yeddy's jailing is a great step forward. He was pulling the BJP down.

But what is really funny from the BRF viewpoint is the link between BJP's "Hindu" Yediyurappa, his recently arrested miner-minister Janardhan Reddy and the links of the latter with Andhra's "Christian INC YSR" and his son.

All a bunch of rotters. Hope to see Mayawati in jail next.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 18 Oct 2011 07:38

ironically the Reddy brothers and others like them, who are formally under the "Hindu" fold, are the "final" obstruction between Jagan and his instinctive EJ mindset to launch a holy war. I would continue to watch this situation. if it is only the "Hindu" collaborators of Jagan who get shafted, then it is almost a certainty that he will take the path of vengeful EJ'ism. his insecurity wrt to "Center" will fuel his EJ extremism.

I'm thinking the EJ control nodes are playing both sides in the Jagan-INC struggle. they are having INC eliminate certain "interests" who they think Jagan can do without. as a consequence, they are hoping to channel the insecurity and relative weakness of Jagan (wrt Sonia++) into "useful" direction for them.

I am hoping that Andhra Dharmic forces have enough strength to sustain this assault. this phase will really test many sections of Andhra society. it won't be easy.

but in the process, I am hoping that Jagan will destroy himself and take many others down with him. the Andhra elite have been relatively insulated from RoP. so, all elite factions have been "Hindu" for a long time. YSR+Jagan is a game changer. now there is a "foreign" elite faction. let us pray that these two "poles" go at each other, and ultimately showing to commons the futility of present "system".

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 18 Oct 2011 08:40

My guess is Reddy brothers would now be brainwashed by Jagan's advisors to jump ship and embrace Jagan's ways

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 18 Oct 2011 09:04

probably not. the EJ's still need the "others". if there are no others, their agenda falls apart. ultimately, we have to realize that they are controlled by foreign imperialists. for them EJ is basically a tool to divide. if there are no "others" and "divisions" then there will be consolidation under one banner. therefore, existence of "others" is crucial. "converting" all elites at such an early stage is not favorable for the EJ's.

ManishH · Post by **ManishH** » 18 Oct 2011 16:45

brihaspati wrote: One danger in becoming too "clean" according to the demands and agenda of your enemy - is that you lose control and interface to the seamy underbelly of society and region, the "criminal" networks - which will then fall like a ripe fruit back into the hands of your enemy who himself never gets "cleaned". Interfaces to these networks are important - at this particular stage.
...
Not everything is possible directly through the rashtryia machinery -and what the rashtra cannot do directly, it achieves through the criminal networks.

It sounds pragmatic, but only in the short term. Just as political parties think they stand to gain an interface, so does the criminal obtain an interface with the constitutional machinery. The criminal too is able to achieve his means via direct government intervention, that what cannot be achieved via regular criminal means. You might have some degree of freedom "at this particular stage", but the compromises you make, leave little degree of freedom "at a later stage".

People deserve a clearer choice and a starker contrast between the habitually criminal and ethical. Makes the choice easy for the ideologically neutral.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 18 Oct 2011 21:14

^^^who says it has to be a constitutional interface!

It is all about consciously preventing whatever parts you have brought under control/alliance not to fall back into enemy hands. That network is a battleground for capture of dominating influence - by wings of the rashtra, congrez, financial and mercantile networks, as well as transnational religious and political interests. If you leave all that out - just give up - you lose a valuable intel interface to ongoing plans, and allow the foot-soldiers to be mopped up into enemy fold - with all their expertise in running virtual parallel pseudo-rashtra.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 18 Oct 2011 21:34

Rudradev wrote: What is different about the Maoists is that this strategy of separation has not been applied. There is no hard line drawn between the moderates who could be wooed back into the political system, vs. the extremists who need to be rooted out and shot. The consistency of vision which placed national interest as paramount, has gone out the window, in favour of narrow political interests.

Dont we have the CPI, CPM political parties that are included in the democratic setup where as the Maoists are hounded by Rashtra?

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 18 Oct 2011 22:46

Rama Y garu, are the Maoists really being hounded by Rashtra?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 18 Oct 2011 23:51

I think the difference in treatment is due to the fact that Maoists do not want to secede from India. Secondly their ideology is not religious w.r.t the (sic) secular construct.

Secondly it could be for the reasons Bji presented. The Rashtra knows and keeps the options open.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Oct 2011 23:55

Suryag, Look up the demographics of the Reddy bros stronghold.

Bji, The Andhra Pradesh naxals already use imagery from the epics while talking to people.

RD, Yes in some areas. MB was the first to embrace them to bring down CPIM and come to power in WB.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 19 Oct 2011 00:17

abhischekcc wrote:By the by,

Robert vadra is a huge investor in Gujarat based Adani, the relationship started in the year 2009. RV came to Ahmedabad and had an 8 hour long meeting.

After this meeting, Indian media speculated for a long time whether Adani is the Dhirubhai, that is, the vehicle of investment for the 'family'.

Since, Adani could not have made it big in Gujarat without Modi, it is important to consider the possibility that Modi and the 'family' have a tacit understanding. It could be political or economic or both. Modi will not disturb the family's wealth and family will support the way for Modi in Delhi as PM.

---------
OK, now for some speculation.

If the above is true, then it makes Robert Vadra no 1 enemy for the Advani camp - they will kill two birds with one stone - Modi and family's puppet Rahul Gandhi. Actually, make that three birds - include RV in this too.

IOW, while we can expect increased attacks on RV, I expect to see most of them coming from LKA camp. As well as the leftist/third front.

This leads me to speculate that a bizarre allience between Advani and lefties may become possible

But this HAS happened before - 1989 and 1996.

All it needs is an important ingredient -a candidate which is not unacceptable to anybody (since being acceptable to everyone in politics is impossible).

However, an even more bizarre coalition is one of Advani, lefties, and anti-Sonia congressis. This will be a sight to watch.

------------
We just have to watch the ongoing drama to see which way the bamboo is falling.

And 8 months later :-

Adani Enterprises MD arrested for custom duty evasion
PTI Feb 27, 2010, 04.30pm IST

AHMEDABAD/MUMBAI: CBI has arrested Rajesh Adani, Managing Director of Adani Enterprises, a part of the Rs 26,000 crore Adani group, on charges of evasion of customs duty to the tune of Rs 80 lakh.

"CBI arrested Rajesh Adani, one of the directors of the Adani Exports (now named Adani Enterprises)," agency spokesperson Harsh Bhal said.

The anti-corruption branch of CBI Goa has registered a case against him and nine customs officials. The case was also registered against Adani Exports and Ganesh Benjoplast.

Reacting to his arrest, Adani group has said till date no case or show cause notice was given to Adani regarding the case.

"Adani Enterprise Ltd petroleum products division had made arrangements, in the normal course of business, to import certain petroleum products in 2005-06 and 2006-07 on behalf of licence and permission holders," the company said in a statement.

These licence and permission holders were responsible for fulfilling all formalities and payment of duties, it said.

Adani, who was arrested yesterday from Ahmedabad, has been admitted to Gandhinagar civil hospital after he complained of high blood pressure, hospital sources said.

CBI Joint Director (Western Region) Rishiraj Singh told PTI in Mumbai that "Adani had in the year 2006-07 imported naptha, a petroleum product, and did not pay customs duty in Goa."

A case was registered in January 2008 by the Goa Anti-Corruption Bureau of the CBI, which is looking into whether any other employees of the diversified group are also involved.

The company said, "Till date no show cause notice has been served by the customs department against the company AEL or Rajesh Adani in respect of these transactions".

"Rajesh Adani was not responsible for any day-to-day business operations. The company is surprised and pursuing the matter with the assistance of its legal counsel", it said.

Rajesh is the younger brother of group chairman Gautam Adani, who recently completed a successful Initial Public Offer of another group company Adani Power.

The Adani Group deals with commodities trading, distribution of natural gas and port operations.

Then few months later :-

Published: January 3, 2011 22:41 IST | Updated: January 5, 2011 08:06 IST
Vidya Subrahmaniam
......
The big donors on the Congress list included Torrent Power Limited (Rs. 25 crore); Crompton Greaves Ltd. (Rs. 15 crore); Adani Enterprises (Rs. 15 crore); the Aditya Birla-run General Electoral Trust (Rs. 1 crore); and Ballarpur Industries Ltd. (Rs. 1 crore). The BJP's biggest benefactor was Popatbhai Ukabhai Vekariya from Rajkot in Gujarat, who pumped Rs. 5 crore into its coffers. The Bharti Electoral Trust also paid Rs. 3 crore but in two instalments. Videocon Industries Limited and Larsen and Toubro Ltd. contributed Rs. 2 crore each while the General Electoral Trust pitched in with Rs. 1 crore.
......
source: http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... ?css=print

Most probably, RV came for "hafta".. didn't get it(or enough of it).. decided to teach Adanis a lesson. And it seems they have learnt the lesson.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 20 Oct 2011 02:05

ramana wrote:Suryag, Look up the demographics of the Reddy bros stronghold.

Bji, The Andhra Pradesh naxals already use imagery from the epics while talking to people.

RD, Yes in some areas. MB was the first to embrace them to bring down CPIM and come to power in WB.

ramana ji,
I know of the AP dada's seasonal swing. And there are undercurrents too. One of the reasons I commented about the future of AP : "five years" opening. What the seniors did was to selectively focus only on those memes that were amenable to their class-conflict theories. I am considering the reverse process. Reclaiming their mobilization memes for SD proper, and provide the justifications within SD rather than Marx. The experiment has started. Let us wait a bit and see. This runs across both parliamentary and the non-parliamentary faces.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 20 Oct 2011 06:34

In AP history thread I posted an interview link a while ago. I wanted to write the transcript but could never get to it.

This singer, Ms Jyothirmayi, is part of TTD's Annamayya project. Her life goal is to install Dharmic India thru Annamayya songs.

She even selected few Annamayya songs that espouse socialistic worldview, composed them in ragas to suit Maoist rhythms, and trained AP maoists

Samudragupta · Post by **Samudragupta** » 20 Oct 2011 07:54

I know of the AP dada's seasonal swing. And there are undercurrents too. One of the reasons I commented about the future of AP : "five years" opening. What the seniors did was to selectively focus only on those memes that were amenable to their class-conflict theories. I am considering the reverse process. Reclaiming their mobilization memes for SD proper, and provide the justifications within SD rather than Marx. The experiment has started. Let us wait a bit and see. This runs across both parliamentary and the non-parliamentary faces

So Jatin Mukherjee is taking over from Che Guevera.....

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 22 Oct 2011 01:22

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_ ... 9Ae03.html

China behind Myanmar's course shift
By Bertil Lintner

CHIANG MAI - Recent developments in Myanmar, including talks between new President Thein Sein and pro-democracy icon Aung San Suu Kyi, a relaxation of media censorship and the release of some political prisoners, have stunned many foreign observers and sparked speculation that the historically military-run country is on the verge of a new era of democracy and openness.

The article is trying to say that there is an internal division within the Burmese army, in which one side baulks at China's increasing control and role, while the other side sees China as the sole dependable ally to stay in power.

The "west" is probably taking an interest in "encouraging" the anti-China faction. Note the reference in the article to the involvement of those from the army who become key gov leaders - in the international drug trade and flows.

What is not told is of course that the entire South east Asia and IOR drug flow and network was built up on a capitalistic venture, by the Brits, and there was no reason to think that - that interest and stake in the drugs trade stopped with the retreat of colonialism. The role of British regime, and British financial capital - offshore and drug-sbased both - may remain a crucial spoiler in this emerging political game.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 22 Oct 2011 02:11

brihaspati garu,

I agree! Drug trade is really the new means by which the Islamics can continue to implement their agenda. The Islamics depended on their control of the Asian landmass to tax trade passing through it, so they survived. When ships started going pass the Asian landmass, their incomes collapsed. It became even more important to get control over the wealth of militarily weaker or less consolidated regions - like Bharat, to keep on financing the Islamic growth. When the Middle East struck Oil, there was no paucity of funds for spreading the "word of Allah"! But sooner or later this avenue too would dry up. Besides there are still many Islamic groups who would want to spread their influence faster than is possible through transfer of finances from one group to another, say from the Saudi Wahhabis to the Pakis.

These groups have to depend on drugs trade!

While writing this post, for the first time in my life, I am thinking favorably about allowing soft drugs like Cannabis! Either we have to find ways on using Drugs to defeat Islamists or we need to finish off drug trade completely.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 22 Oct 2011 02:13

one of the libertarian agendas in US is to stop the "War" on Drugs. they say that it's another "Globalist" financial black hole which is used to suck up resources in the name of a "war".