The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

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Arjun
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Arjun »

Sanku, you've made a good case for linking first-past-the-post with the blot on Indian democracy that is dynastic politics. I would largely agree with it, excepting for this last paragraph...
Sanku wrote:The axiom here is of course no dynast can survive in a true democracy, if however a dynast can indeed establish himself democratically, he is no longer a dynast but a Appointed kingly ruler in the old Indian mold (a Indian king would also often win elections on popularity quite easily) -- even if born in a family.
Rather than take as an axiom that no dynast can survive in a true Indian democracy, I would regard it as a hypothesis- albeit a good one that has maybe ~80% probability of holding true. It does seem to be the case that a dynast in India essentially survives on appeasement of strong minority interests which in a FPTP system can ensure repeated electoral wins.

However, it is also true that the concept of family / lineage is far more central to an Indian voter's thinking than to one in the West. Just take as example the number of star-progeny and khandaans that populate Bollywood....clearly there is a cultural tendency in India that judges people by their family background / surname more than for their individual strengths. I would therefore not rule out the possiblity that Indians in general have a tendency to give more weightage to surname than compared with the West.

Rather than concluding that this means he is no longer a dynast but more like a popular king - I would look for an extra means / regulation to ensure that what I would regard as an Indian failing does not lead to subversion of core principles of democracy. The US prohibits anyone from standing for more than 2 terms as President - so even if Bill Clinton could have won the popular vote if that rule were not there - the US constitution very rightly puts a bar on it. Similarly, even if the popular vote in India does go to a dynast there has to be some limit such that family rule does not cross a bar that can be regarded as egregious.

You might ask , what exactly is egregious? Well, that is to be defined....but the 5th member of a dynasty taking control of nation's destiny as PM / Party President within a period of six decades - definitely crosses the bar several times over. It is feudalistic, and by concentrating power in a single family / oligopoly stifles meritocracy and promotes corruption. So long-short if this is, in the event that resolving FPTP (presumably through runoff for top 2 candidates) still does not result in elimination of dynastic politics - then specific limits on families occupying PM / Party President posts need to be brought in.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by vishvak »

Philip wrote: Not winning because of Anna: Bishnoi
Now congress will go through the motion blaming everyone else one by one.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Sanku »

Arjun wrote: However, it is also true that the concept of family / lineage is far more central to an Indian voter's thinking than to one in the West. .
I see what you are saying, I don't necessarily disagree with it, only that, I expect that the current aberration would be removed by removing the FPTP system, without need for other measures.

Now whether we need to have stronger measures in place to remove other dynasts from coming in as well? That is something I am quite open on exploring, including the suggestions you make.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Philip »

Vish,blaming the messenger (Anna ) not the message (stop corruption!).
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Manish_Sharma »

Philip wrote:Congress Kaput! This is more than a wake-up call for the Congress and SG and RG should get the message that no amount of spin can absolve the sins of the MMS regime which is still unwilling to listen to the people and has to pay the piper.

http://in.msn.com/?st=1&ar=1

Cong shocked: Loses in Mah, trails in Hisar
Anna effect: Congress loses Khadakwasla assembly by-poll, trails in Hisar, to BJP alliance
• TRS defeats Congress in Andhra by-poll• Not winning because of Anna: Bishnoi

MMS is like a small cheap diwali cracker, compared to Sonia & Rahul who are the Tsar Bombas of sins. Imagine with the help of Opus Dei, CIA, Western Europeans the control these mother-son are having over politics, beareaucracy & media. She can arrogantly file 2 affidavites contrary to each other about her education and both are false, but nobody raises it, no action against her.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Hari Seldon »

I hope the ruling clan continues to be sheltered by the cocooning influence of its courtiers and professional psycho-pants and remains cutoff from reality all the way till 2014...or at least till the SC pronounces its EVM verdict.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Singha »

RG was last seen in bhutan, one of the select few invitees for the kings wedding.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by VinayB »

At Hissar, the winning candidate denies his win is due to Team Anna campaign, and thanks his ally BJP. Team Anna, AK and PB and Hegde in particular, can take that and shove it.

what this shows is no body trusts team Anna even when Team Anna itself claims their anti-INC campaign benefits BJP.

Team Anna can continue to do the equal-equal thing for INC. They, and their enthusiasts, may forget simple facts - number of years since BJP/NDA demitted office, number of years INC has been in power, number of years one particular family has been in power, the scale of it (charge against Yeddy vs. the combined loot of CWG, 2G, and the data coming out of myserious exports).. But people will steer clear. You can ask people to light candle after major terror strikes and then continue to vote INC, that may have even worked, but you can not continue different shades of the same trick.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Pranay »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 394278.cms
Anna Hazare has invited Rahul Gandhi to Ralegan Siddhi to witness rural development in his village, indicating a thaw in the bitter relations between him and Congress.

"Anna's message is clear that Rahul is welcome to Ralegan. He has high expectations from Rahul about the leadership of the new generation," Vinayakrao Deshmukh, Hazare's nephew, told TOI, quoting the Gandhian.

Vinayakrao, who incidentally is Congress in-charge of implementation of UPA's flagship schemes in Maharashtra, is in the capital.


The improving vibes between the fierce Lokpal campaigner and Congress come amid recrimination over Hazare's "defeat Congress" call in Hisar bypolls. Congress leader Digvijay Singh accused him of carrying out RSS agenda to target the party with a flurry of letters.

But Vinayak said the 'RSS front' charge was baseless. "In our place, when some elder dies, a mourning person does not wear a cap and stays barefoot for 10 days. I still remember when Indira Gandhi was assassinated, Anna did not wear topi and chappal for 10 days, such is his respect for the Nehru-Gandhi family," he said.

In contrast, he said, Hazare was offered a Rajya Sabha nomination during NDA regime but he turned it down.


Vinayak said the slanging match between Congress and Hazare was a result of "bad communication" because the Gandhian was fighting against corruption while Congress leadership agreed with it.

"Anna is never against any party but is only for an issue... I think the days ahead are good for Congress-Anna partnership if a strong Lokpal bill is passed in the winter session of Parliament," he said.

"Now, after PM wrote to him assuring that the bill would be brought in the winter session, he has postponed his UP yatra," he said.

Hazare's nephew said there were no major differences between his uncle and the Congress leadership. "It will be good for Congress in future. Anna can help guide the Centre's rural development programmes through his associations," he said.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by vijayk »

^^ Well... may be Anna is too below the class of the ITALIAN crook.

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/rahul ... 10653.html
Rahul Gandhi’s no-show: busy, uninformed or arrogant?
The whole world knew about a meeting between the sarpanch of Anna Hazare’s village, Ralegan Siddhi, and Rahul Gandhi scheduled for earlier on Tuesday. However, it transpires that no one told Rahul Gandhi about the meeting. Anna Hazare’s team flew to New Delhi, only to discover that there was no meeting.

The Congress claims that it was a miscommunication. Reports IBNLive, Congress from Idukki PT Thomas clarified later and said, “There was a communication gap from my office for which I apologised.”
How did Thomas and Rahul Gandhi’s office not know that the sarpanch was coming to Delhi for a meeting with Rahul Gandhi, as the ‘news’ was reported extensively?

For example, The Wall Street Journal’s blog on news from India carried this: “Ralegan calling: Anna Hazare sends emissary to Rahul Gandhi. Team Anna is busy battling the Congress over its Jan Lokpal draft Bill, but in some Track 2 diplomacy, Anna Hazare has sent the sarpanch of his Ralegan Siddhi village to meet Rahul Gandhi in Delhi.”

One conclusion that one can draw from this sorry episode is that members of the party leading the coalition at the Centre do not consume media.

The other conclusion that one can draw is that Rahul Gandhi is a very busy man. “I had forwarded the request to Rahul Gandhi’s office and they said they will give time as and when Rahul is free,” says Thomas. Thomas had visited Ralegan Siddhi in September, and Rahul Gandhi has not been ‘free’ since then?
I think it is good for the credibility of Anna and his supporters to keep away from this crooked DIE-nasty.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Atri »

Anna Hazare slams Prashant Bhushan, says ready to go to war with Pak on J&K again
NEW DELHI: Indicating hardening of stand against Prashant Bhushan, Anna Hazare today took an indirect dig at the lawyer-activist saying some people talk "incoherent" things about Kashmir though they cannot do anything on ground.

"Some people talk incoherent things about Kashmir related issues... Today once again if I have to, am ready to take part in war against Pakistan. But some people can only speak and don't do anything on ground (for Kashmir) and this is unfortunate," he said on his blog as he continued his indefinite "silence".

In the latest posting titled 'My Conviction about Kashmir', Hazare said he had taken active part in the 1965 India-Pakistan war "as a soldier" and all his colleagues attained martyrdom on the border during the war but he "miraculously" survived.

"It was then I pledged the rest of my life in the service of my country. Even today you can see the marks on my forehead left behind by Pakistan's bullet. This is my active conviction that Kashmir is an integral part of India and will remain so," he said.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Philip »

There is no Q that in the propaganda battle,the A-Team is streets ahead of the Dy-nasty! RG's non-appearance or silence can be construed to be that of a petulant or inexperienced political novice.When invited by a humble ex-jawan ,a patriot to boot as well,not afeared to tell off one of his own team on India's sovereignity of Kashmir being an absolute,without any compromise,the least RG could've done was to have politely declined or postponed his visit.The KO of the Congress in the elections has also sent the party into a tailspin and we will have great entertainment now with the headless chickens,sorry,"broilers" as is the case with Renuka C,scuttling around like crabs on a beach in search of a hole to hide themselves in!

Even a BJP with much convolutions within the party has managed to oust the ruling Congress regime.Its allies in the UPA must be reading the writing on the wall and making alternative arrangements for the next outing at the hustings.Bandicoots will desert the sinking SS Congress,all that remains to be asked is what music will the band (icoots)left on board play while the ship sinks?
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Singha »

two members of TA put in papers today against kejriwals anti-INC hisar campaign and Bhushan's J&K remark which they termed 'embarassing'
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by chaanakya »

Kejariwal got bushwhacked in LuckNow. HT reporting. Attacker Jitendra Pathak hurled slipper at AK.
Two members quit from "team anna" ( whenever it was formed and whoever and however they were selected) , Looks like Anna is going through trial by fire.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Pranay »

Times Now ticker - Arvind Kejriwal attacked in Lucknow.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 403407.cms
Team Anna member Arvind Kejriwal was attacked in a public meeting in Lucknow on Tuesday evening, according to news channel Times Now. A person attempted to assault Kejriwal by hurling a shoe at him.

This is the second attack on a Team Anna member after Prashant Bhushan was attacked in his Supreme Court lawyer's chamber for his remarks on Jammu and Kashmir.

The person who hurled shoe has been arrested.
Last edited by Pranay on 18 Oct 2011 19:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Pranay »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 403272.cms
LUCKNOW: Fresh crisis erupted in Team Anna when two prominent members -- PV Rajagopal and Rajinder Singh -- quit its core committee on Tuesday objecting to the movement taking a "political turn" and claimed that it was mired in confusion.

Reacting to the resignations of Rajendra Singh and PB Rajgopal from the core committee of Indian Against Corruption over differences on campaigning against Congress in Hisar by-elections, the other members of Team Anna on Tuesday evening said that the Lokpal movement is important and not the individuals.


Singh told toi that he was out of country when some of Team Anna members decided to campaign against Congress party in Hisar by-election. He said that the moral authority of the movement was in its apolitical nature but some members of the core committe took decision to oppose Congress in by-election without consulting the entire group. He said that in his view taking stand against or in favour of any poltical party is wrong. Rajgopal was not available for comments but he is also said to have quit on similar grounds.

In reaction, another member of Team Anna core group Manish Sisodia denied allegations that the decision was taken without consulting other members of the committee. He said that Singh and Rajgopal had expressed desire to quit active participation in the committee meetings because of their other engagements but their accusation on Tuesday has come as a shock for me. Kumar Vishwas, also core committee member, said that the cause is important and not inviduals. The movement will carry on, he declared,

Sisodia, Vishwas along with Arvind Kejriwal and other Team Anna members are on five day UP tour exhorting people to pressurise their MPs to vote in favour of strong Lokpal in the winter session of Parliament. They reiterated that Anna and its team is not against any party but is mounting pressure on the Congress because it is in power at the centre and in a position to enact a strong Lokpal institution which will check corruption of all the political parties in power in different parts of the country, they said.

Sisodia did not rule out the possibility of a conspiracy to `divide' Team Anna. "Some politicians have launched and organised effort to break our unity and destabilise the movement. However, even if some people have resigned, the movement will continue till the time ordinary people are taking part in it. We have received tremendous support of people at all the places we have covered so far in UP," he added. Kumar Vishwas said that there are personal differences between members but we will not allow the movement to suffer.

Earlier, during the day, while addressing a gathering in Kanpur, Anna's right hand man Arvind Kejriwal said that people have defeated the ruling Congress in by-elections at four places in the country because the party has been creating hurdles in passing a strong Lokpal law. The people's verdict should be treated as referendum in favour of strong Lokpal. After Kanpur, on their way to Lucknow, the Team Anna visited Badarka village in Unnao, the birth place of legendary freedom fighter Chandra Shekhar Azad.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by vijayk »

The problem is I suspect some of these Anna core committee including the the judge Hegde are in some sort of collusion with CON party or sympathizers of the CON party or just secularists who thing every thing or any thing including foreign occupation by ISI led Islamic terrorists is better than BJP in powers. Most of them are brain washed COMMIES who can't think beyond communal angle to the country. They equate any thing against CON party has to be compensated with attacks on BJP. The CON media supporting DIE-nasty keeps on pressing them as RSS blah blah, BJP blah blah... They will do this until CON gandoos are decisively defeated.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by chetak »

Atri wrote:Anna Hazare slams Prashant Bhushan, says ready to go to war with Pak on J&K again
NEW DELHI: Indicating hardening of stand against Prashant Bhushan, Anna Hazare today took an indirect dig at the lawyer-activist saying some people talk "incoherent" things about Kashmir though they cannot do anything on ground.

"Some people talk incoherent things about Kashmir related issues... Today once again if I have to, am ready to take part in war against Pakistan. But some people can only speak and don't do anything on ground (for Kashmir) and this is unfortunate," he said on his blog as he continued his indefinite "silence".

In the latest posting titled 'My Conviction about Kashmir', Hazare said he had taken active part in the 1965 India-Pakistan war "as a soldier" and all his colleagues attained martyrdom on the border during the war but he "miraculously" survived.

"It was then I pledged the rest of my life in the service of my country. Even today you can see the marks on my forehead left behind by Pakistan's bullet. This is my active conviction that Kashmir is an integral part of India and will remain so," he said.

This will put at rest any invitations for Anna to visit pakiland and start an anti corruption movement there.

sad for the WKK and burqua brigades that Anna has opted out in such a public fashion. :lol:

sad for the kashmiri jehadis who were asking him questions publicly, they have all got their answers now.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by chetak »

vijayk wrote:The problem is I suspect some of these Anna core committee including the the judge Hegde are in some sort of collusion with CON party or sympathizers of the CON party or just secularists who thing every thing or any thing including foreign occupation by ISI led Islamic terrorists is better than BJP in powers. Most of them are brain washed COMMIES who can't think beyond communal angle to the country. They equate any thing against CON party has to be compensated with attacks on BJP. The CON media supporting DIE-nasty keeps on pressing them as RSS blah blah, BJP blah blah... They will do this until CON gandoos are decisively defeated.
hegde has a private agenda of his own. Time will soon make this clear.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by hnair »

All the ToI articles seem to be trying to put words in Shree Anna Hazare's mouth and manufacture new dynamics in an amateurish fashion :D From the prominence given for a wishy-washy "invite" (by some Cong cousin, not Shree Hazare himself) to giving the ungal to Shree Bhushan (sliding in a sneaky "miracle" djinn type escape from death during war with paquis etc) to the resignations of Kore Kammittee members (who suddenly found they have more important things to do than weed out corruption).

This thing is messy and ToI wants to make it even more so by peddling some half-assed "conflict is good" Hollywood mantra.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by vijayk »

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 111018.htm
Team Anna proved to be a big hit in Lucknow where thousands converged on the banks of the Gomati river to cheer social activist Arvind Kejriwal and others who swore to not just unseat corrupt politicians but to bring grassroots changes in the system of governance.
Kejriwal looked undaunted by an attempted attack by a suspected Congress supporter who tried to hit him as he stepped out of his vehicle to climb up to the dais.


My hunch - Looks like some people in the current dispensation would like to get rid of Kejriwal using any means. They first tried to pin them as RSS inspired hoping some LET/IM will do free lance on them. When it did not work, now they are using their followers to take direct action where as DIE-nasty servants like Dogvijay spew venom on Anna/his team hoping their followers will take the cue and finish the job. He better be careful...
Last edited by vijayk on 19 Oct 2011 21:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Pratyush »

Only Sonia Gandhi can bring strong Lokpal: Arvind Kejriwal

The question is can Mayawati constitute Lokpal to curb corruption or for that Mulayam or BJP, Kejriwal asked?

"The answer is that only Congress president Sonia Gandhi can do so. Her direction to the Congress-led UPA government can ensure a strong Jan Lokpal, which can put all corrupt politicians behind bars be it those belonging to BSP, SP, BJP or Congress," he said at Jhulelal Park.
What kind of chanikian logic is that, is he suggesting all corruption is because some Gandhi doesn't want to bring corruption to an end. Or is he a Dynasty chamcha.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Pratyush »

Jumping the shark: 3 signs that Anna movement is in trouble

1) Who’s the boss?
2) Shrinking the big tent
3) Beware of doublespeak

A nice and sensible writeup discribing the dangers and problems with the current IAC setup. The sooner they pay heed and rectify the situation. The better it will be.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Arjun »

Pratyush wrote:What kind of chanikian logic is that, is he suggesting all corruption is because some Gandhi doesn't want to bring corruption to an end. Or is he a Dynasty chamcha.
This is consistent with what he's been saying throughout. The focus is on getting the Jan Lokpal bill in place - and given the current numbers in parliament, only UPA can ensure this. SG as head of UPA bears responsibility for getting it done. This was the same logic used for campaigning only against INC at Hisar.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by VinayB »

Arjun wrote:
Pratyush wrote:What kind of chanikian logic is that, is he suggesting all corruption is because some Gandhi doesn't want to bring corruption to an end. Or is he a Dynasty chamcha.
This is consistent with what he's been saying throughout. The focus is on getting the Jan Lokpal bill in place - and given the current numbers in parliament, only UPA can ensure this. SG as head of UPA bears responsibility for getting it done. This was the same logic used for campaigning only against INC at Hisar.
Such simple minded devotion to cause is admirable. So when some form of a lokpal bill is eventually passed, some of us expect him to sing, dance and give all credit to the family for 'fighting corruption'.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by ramana »

vijayk, Please edit your post. You are attributing motives to a national party.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Pranay »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 420495.cms
ON BOARD PM'S SPECIAL PLANE: Noting that Anna Hazare's movement has "served its purpose", Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Wednesday said the government was working to put in place an effective Lokpal which would be an assurance to people that corruption "cannot flourish as a way of life".

He said corruption was hurting development, governance besides the poor people and his government was committed to "clean up the system".

"Well, I would not like to use this opportunity to criticise any individual," he told journalists when asked whether Hazare had been "unfair" by continuously attacking him and his government.

"I think, Anna Hazareji's movement has served its purpose. We are all working to ensure that we have in place before long an effective Lokpal," Singh added while talking to accompanying journalists on his way back home from Pretoria where he attended the India-Brazil-south Africa (IBSA) Summit.

He said the government expected Parliament to vote for an effective Lokpal Bill "which will be an assurance to the people that corruption cannot flourish as a way of life."

Singh disagreed with a suggestion that corruption is an inevitable fallout of development as similar issues were finding resonance in public protests in other IBSA member countries -- Brazil and South Africa.

"I can't take that view of complacency. Corruption hurts development processes, corruption hurts the poor, corruption affects the quality of governance. Therefore, I can't say corruption is something which is inevitable in the society," he asserted.

PM denounces attack on Kejriwal

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh also denounced the physical attack on Team Anna member Arvind Kejriwal, saying there are civilised ways to express "anger and frustration" by anybody.

"There is no place for violence in our democracy. Therefore, any act of violence is to be condemned. On that point, I am absolutely clear that nothing is going to be gained by pursuit of violence, howsoever, angry one may feel," Singh told reporters.

He was replying to a question on the attack against Kejriwal in Lucknow on Tuesday.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by sum »

Finally, seems that the IB and state machinery is being put to good use. Expect more such reports in the days to come:

Kiran Lokpal Bedi buys discount air tickets, gets hosts to pay full fare
Kiran Bedi, one of the most vocal members of Team Anna, who riled Members of Parliament with her Ramlila ghoonghat act, may herself have some explaining to do. The issue: the inflated travel expenses she has been charging NGOs and institutions which invite her for seminars or meetings.

Records of bills, invoices and copies of cheques with The Indian Express show that Bedi, who is entitled to a rebate on Air India tickets as a gallantry award winner, pays discount fares but charges her host institutions the full fare. She has also, at times, claimed Business class fare while flying Economy.

The Indian Express has 12 recorded examples of this, some of which date back to 2006 when Bedi was a serving IPS officer. Her last such travel for which an inflated invoice was sent was as recent as September 29.

Reimbursement cheques for these fares were credited to India Vision Foundation, the NGO headed by Bedi. Her chartered accountant Suresh Vyas said that what was being seen as a “mismatch” was actually a “saving” done by them — with Bedi spending less than what she was reimbursed for. Vyas said the money came in handy for travels for causes for which Bedi got no remuneration.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Arjun »

VinayB wrote:Such simple minded devotion to cause is admirable. So when some form of a lokpal bill is eventually passed, some of us expect him to sing, dance and give all credit to the family for 'fighting corruption'.
The INC is actually caught in a cleft. Even if the Lokpal bill is passed, the public would perceive this as INC being bamboozled by Team Anna. The way I see it - INC gets the blame if the bill is not passed and Anna gets the credit if it is passed.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Arjun »

Anna’s movement will only get more political

Good analysis of Anna's future course...
Obituaries are being written about Anna Hazare’s anti-corruption movement. Two core Team Anna members, PV Rajagopal and Rajinder Singh, have quit or moved away.After his support of plebiscite in Kashmir, Prashant Bhushan’s fate hangs in the balance, although his father, Shanti Bhushan, says he didn’t mean it.

So is it finito for the Anna movement? Are its ideological contradictions irreconcilable? The answer to both queries is ‘no’. But this writer thinks the anti-corruption movement will become more sharply political and get solider in its anti-Congressism.

It must be understood that Anna is the moving force behind the movement. His team members, important as they are, are still in the nature of add-ons. The parting of Rajagopal and Rajinder Singh will not affect the movement, because it has reached its present position organically.

Bhushan’s going away may be a setback in terms of the legal acumen he and his father brought to the movement. But Anna may be able to overcome even that, although it is possible that the Bhushans may not wish to leave. Anna provides a massive platform. The Bhushans have become national figures. Such celebrity is not easily spurned.

The ‘problem’ for the Anna movement has started with the Hisar election, which the BJP-backed candidate, Kuldeep Bishnoi, won. The number two candidate, Ajay Chautala, lost narrowly, while the Congress nominee, Jai Parkash, forfeited his deposit. The Congress suffered such a crushing defeat in 1977 when it lost national power to the Jayaprakash Narayan-led Janata Party. The significance of this historicity is more than ironic.

The Congress says it was anyway losing the election. Team Anna’s campaign against Jai Parkash did not affect the verdict one way or another, it says. Bishnoi and Chautala say the same thing. This has been quickly interpreted by reporters and pundits to mean that the Anna factor made no material difference to the Hisar poll outcome. This is both wrong and a little right, but Team Anna’s take on this is the most accurate.

In an earlier piece in this newspaper, this writer has highlighted the differences between Anna and JP. The crucial difference between the two lies in the degree of politicising their respective movements. JP, as everyone knows, went to the extreme of forming a political party, brought it to power, but expectedly refused office. Anna Hazare, on the other hand, is on the first stage of the politicisation of his movement, and as far as can be told from the outside, remains content there.

How does this first stage of politicisation work?

The Anna movement has identified the chief obstructer to its goal for a powerful Jan Lokpal, and this is the Congress at the Centre.

So it has set about demolishing it unless it relents on its chief demand. But while aiming to pummel the Congress electorally, it is not backing anyone explicitly. It did not back Bishnoi or Chautala or the 20 or so other candidates in the fray. The result of this limited but potent campaign was to divide the Congress votes on caste and other considerations and add it to those of the number one and two candidates, routing Jai Parkash.

This is the impact of Team Anna’s campaign. Bishnoi can’t say Team Anna helped him because it didn’t. The same holds for Chautala. So they are technically correct to base their performance on personal and other factors. But by cutting into Congress votes, the Anna campaign played the spoiler. This is the full significance of the Anna movement’s first stage of politicisation.

The pattern of the Hisar poll will be played out on a bigger scale in the Uttar Pradesh elections early next year if Team Anna works against the Congress. The Congress is losing UP. Its internal reports say so. Mayawati is slated to return. The Anna factor will worsen the Congress defeat in UP. There may be a washout.

This could be avoided or minimised, but that is another story. But the Anna movement’s evolution to this point of being sharply and growingly political is entirely organic and logical. After all, as a weapon, hunger strike cannot be often and trivially employed. A campaign against an obstructive power in an election is a natural second weapon and perfectly democratic.

Sometimes, Anna Hazare may appear to be faltering, succumbing to pulls and pressures. It makes him all the more human. But he knows what he is doing.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Philip »

"A-Team in trouble" ? If any team is in real trouble it is the Congress-UPA team instead! A sound thrashing in the recent elections,with the Hissar Congress candidate losing his deposit,but more importantly than these defeats are the words of warning emnating from one of the tallest of the UPA partners,Sharad Pawar.

Pawar's warning to the Congress has been sneered at and brushed off by Congressmen in general.The snake-oil mendicant whom we are made to believe is the country's PM has astonishingly blamed everything on the media,including Indo-Sino relations as they are "generally good" ,little or no problems on the border,etc.,making a mockery of the words of warning from his very own Def. Min. AKA and the CoAS.Sharad Pawar is absolutely spot on when he says that the problems facing the UPA-2 are due to weak leadership at the centre unable to salvage the situ in the face of the huge scams.

A little earlier I had posted that the UPA allies will be carefully examining the recent Congress election debacle and start examining other options by the time the next Lok Sabha elections are due.The UP elections will be a cacaophony of nails in the Congress' coffin and a huge realignment of political forces in the country is on the cards.Our beloved "honest'" PM,is past history and is a "ghost who walks",whose days are numbered diminishing with increasing speed.

Pawar's words in the media today on the agri situ in the country are also very interesting.The nation is doing very well on the agri production front with an all-across the land increase in output.Despite this excellent news,what he has warned us about are the debilitating subsidies on agriculture,where agri produce are sold to the "poor" at around 1/4th the cost of purchase which wil directly affect economic growth. With such massive subsidies,where will the money for desperately needed infrastructure requirements come from? Pawar has started trotting out hs spin ,protecting himself from the eco woes of the nation due to the UPA-2,rising apparent unstoppable inflation,and the reasons for the same-Congress' wasteful expenditure on votebanks.Faced with rampant corruption,corporate leaders have also openly expressed their own warnings to the deaf and dumb regime of Maun Moan Sing.They have started investing abroad instead of within the country and all that MMS can think of is selling even more of the family silver by increasing FDI %ages in the aviation industry,etc.

If the rot in the Congress continues as expected,Pawar will be the first to abandon ship.His warnings are an indication that he has more than an eye-a firm grip on the lifeboats and when Rahul G's time to drive the Congress car arrives,he will find that his earlier chauffeur has left him with a vehicle with only two wheels,no brakes,a broken engine,a leaky roof,a flat battery and no seats to boot.In short the Congress' "car" now resembles more of a "cart",but not to worry Rahulji,there are plenty of willing donkeys to pull the cart of the famous Congress dynasty!
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by gakakkad »

Wow....great victory for Indian kleptocracy

sandeep dikshit part of team heading the probe investigating mommy dikshits role in cwg...


http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/sand ... witterfeed
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Pratyush »

Is desh ka kuch nahi hoga. No question has been asked of conflict of interest. Sandeep Dikshat ought to have withdrawn himself from the panel in order to keep himself and the investigation above reproach. But now the investigation it self has been tainted.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Pranav »

@Swamy39 Subramanian Swamy

Now that Vishkanya's diagnosis is Glioma, and US doctors give her 7 more months to 18 months, patriots must ensure MMS lasts till July 2012.

http://twitter.com/#!/Swamy39/status/127238189533499392
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Aditya_V »

Cash-for-vote: Kulkarni, BJP ex-MPs denied bail
The court, while dismissing the bail pleas, observed the accused had “ample opportunity” to inform the law enforcing agencies when they received the illegal gratification.
The crime branch of Delhi Police, in its charge sheet, had described Mr. Kulkarni as the “mastermind” of the cash-for-vote scam and said he had remained in touch with the conspirators and was present when the “illegal gratification” was paid to the then BJP MPs.
Tell me India is not a Banana republic. Supreme Court verdict for sting operations is ignored and then this. Rather than going after Ahmed patel, this is what Delhi's finest whose record in preventing rape cases have to present.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Pranay »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 438482.cms
The task of ensuring transparency and evolving a mechanism to check corrupt practices had acquired urgency like never before, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said on Friday while stressing that the Lokpal bill was at the top of his government's agenda.

The prime minister, addressing the biennial conference of the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) and state anti-corruption bureaus, added that the government welcomes inputs from civil society and NGOs on how to fight corruption.

"We are on cusp of far reaching changes in fighting corruption. The agitation launched by Anna Hazare has made fighting corruption top agenda. Lokpal is at the top of government's agenda."


Manmohan Singh also said that a committee under retired Supreme Court Judge will be set up to review cases pending trial for more than 10 years.
The prime minister said the government would bring in a bill in the winter session of parliament to ensure transparency in government procurement contracts (running into thousands of crore of rupees).

He said: "The government is working on legislation to make bribery in private sector punishable in law."
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Pranay »

http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=738983
With the CBI director opposing bringing the anti-corruption unit of the agency under Lokpal, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh today gave an assurance that the agency will continue to play a very important role in ensuring probity in public life, whatever be the structure of the anti-corruption ombudsman.

"We hope to see the establishment of a strong and effective Lokpal in the coming months. Whatever be the structure and functions of the Lokpal when it is established, the CBI as our premier investigating agency will continue to play a very important role in our efforts for ensuring probity in our public life," the Prime Minister said.


Speaking at the biennial conference of CBI and state anti-corruption bureaux, he said the debate over the possible ways and means to curb corruption and improve the processes of governance has intensified in the last few months.

"The agitation for the establishment of a Lokpal has brought the issue of cleaning up of our public life right at the top of the agenda of our national priorities. I believe that the churning over this issue that our society and our polity are witnessing today, marked by sharp differences of opinions and ardent advocacy of particular causes is, on balance, good for our country," the Prime Minister said.

Earlier, the CBI Director A P Singh in his speech said CBI must be an integral and independent component in any effort to strengthen the mechanism to combat corruption.

"One of the draft bills of Lokpal envisages merger of the anti-corruption wing of the CBI with the Lokpal. Given the composite nature of the CBI...I am of the firm belief that such a proposal is neither practical nor advisable...I will very strongly advocate that at no cost the CBI is bifurcated or divested of its anti-corruption powers.

There is a need for speedy and thorough investigation into allegations of such wrong doings, followed by expeditious prosecution to bring the guilty to book. This would act as a powerful deterrent against corruption," he said.

The Prime Minister said expectations from the CBI are well known but need repetition because sometimes in the routine of daily work the larger scheme of things are forgotten.

"We expect from the CBI the highest standards of honesty and professionalism and a total disregard of any extraneous considerations, particularly political pressure, in its work...And professionalism demands facelessness, in the best traditions of our civil services," he said.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Pranay »

http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/ ... m-anna/?hp#
Is Anna Hazare’s grand coalition of good-government activists cracking up?

Some serious stress fractures appeared this week when two prominent social activists on the 25-member core committee of India Against Corruption left the coalition. They were displeased that Mr. Hazare and his close ally, Arvind Kejriwal, had chosen to wade directly into politics by campaigning against the governing Congress party in a by-election in Hisar in Haryana.

On one level, the Hazare team’s experiment in politicking in Hisar was a resounding success: The Congress candidate won so few votes that he lost his deposit. But the departure of two highly respected members, from what has been billed as a big-tent organization aimed at transforming the national culture, could dim the movement’s luster.

“The decision to go to Hisar and U.P. was a big setback to the anti-corruption movement,” Rajendra Singh, a veteran environmental activist from Rajasthan who withdrew from the Hazare coalition this week, said in an interview. “To support a political party and oppose another was like acting as power brokers. They have defeated the whole credibility of the anti-corruption movement.”


The Gandhian activist P. V. Rajagopal also withdrew, saying he had not been consulted about the decision to get involved in the Hisar campaign.

“I do not know when the decision to go to Hisar and U.P. was taken,” he said in an interview. “I learned it through the media. I was not consulted even on the phone.”

He was surprised, he said, because this was a major change in focus for what had previously been an avowedly nonpartisan campaign.

“To oppose or support a political party, it was a huge jump,” he said. “A lot of people felt uncomfortable. You can not shift from one position to the other so quickly. It is very unfortunate.”

Mr. Singh accused the movement of operating with the same secrecy that so loudly decried in government.

“You talk about democratic values and transparency,” he fumed. “Where are those values and where is that transparency? We decided to work through a core team and such decisions are not even informed.”

This summer’s vast anti-corruption movement, stirred up by Mr. Hazare’s epic hunger strike, seemed poised to transform Indian public life. The normally indifferent-to-politics middle class rose collectively to its feet, donning topis and declaring, “I am Anna.” A torpid political class was jostled into action, pledging to create the anti-corruption ombudsman, or Lokpal, that Mr. Hazare was demanding.

In the flush of this victory, Mr. Hazare and his allies cast about for the next mission: giving voters the power to recall misbehaving members of Parliament, for example. But signs of discord in the diverse coalition quickly surfaced.

When Prashant Bhushan was mauled by right-wing Hindu activists for his comments in support of a plebiscite to allow Kashmiris to determine whether to remain part of India, Mr. Hazare and others distanced themselves from his remarks and offered only tepid criticism of his attackers. Since then he has scarcely been seen among Mr. Hazare’s coterie.

Another top member of Team Anna has also been embroiled in controversy recently. Kiran Bedi, the former police official turned clean-government crusader, was the subject of two investigative articles in the Indian Express this week. As the winner of a police bravery medal, she is entitled to a 75 percent discount on tickets for India’s national airline, Air India.

The paper reported that she bought discounted tickets but billed organizations that paid for her tickets as if she had paid full fare, then used the difference to fund her charity. Responding to a barrage of questions from people on Twitter, Ms. Bedi did not deny doing this, but argued that she had in fact saved these organizations money by not flying business class and had used the proceeds for a good cause.

“What wrong? What offense. Is saving an offense? And then putting the saving to a good cause a crime?,” she Tweeted.


Responding to questions via text message from a noisy public meeting in Meerut, Ms. Bedi said she had done nothing improper.

“I have done what any person who has total commitment to causes will do,” she wrote. “I generate and save all the time for education of under privileged children.”

She said she used the money she saved by not traveling business class to pay for charity.

“Many corporates are aware of my saving. And they were of course obliged that I gave them my day.”

Mr. Rajagopal said he was unconvinced by this argument.

“How can people respect you if you are not ethical?” he said. “Ethics are something not to be preached but to be practiced. This disintegration is a loss for the country.”

An editorial in the Indian Express argued that the episode is a useful lesson.

“Team Anna should square with itself and then start identifying what constitutes corruption, deception, and what is simply human resourcefulness, or finding a way to live with rigid and unrealistic rules. What, for instance, are the clear lines between ‘I used it for my NGO’ and ‘I used it for my political party’? ”

Mr. Kejriwal did not return a telephone call or text message seeking comment. But other members of Team Anna played down the divisions within the coalition, and said that the Hisar political experiment was less a full-bore entry into politics than a warning shot to a complacent political class.

“The idea was to give a mild warning to Congress,” said Medha Patkar, a prominent activist who is also part of the committee. The decision to become involved in the Hisar race, she said, was taken by a smaller working group in Delhi, not the whole committee.

“The issue of electoral politics and movement needs to be discussed at deeper level,” she said. “There is no big disintegration of the movement but, yes, there is a difference of opinion.”

Ms. Bedi said the Hisar vote was merely an effort to show voters they can elect representatives who support the Lokpal bill.

“We are on voter awareness to ensure the parliament gets MPs who vote for the Jan Lok Pal bill,” she wrote.

She said it was normal that some people would disagree and leave the movement.

“Team Anna is a coming together of strong activists and have own causes and views,” she said.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by VinayB »

Pranay wrote:

The prime minister, addressing the biennial conference of the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) and state anti-corruption bureaus, added that the government welcomes inputs from civil society and NGOs on how to fight corruption.

"We are on cusp of far reaching changes in fighting corruption. The agitation launched by Anna Hazare has made fighting corruption top agenda. Lokpal is at the top of government's agenda."

Pranay, would you know how high on the agenda would that be? Higher than saving the billions already swindled, scuttling the cases, swindling billions more, facilitating exports to Bahamas to boost GDP, allocating resources (those that miss the swindling) to the favoured minorities, above all serving the family...

Oh Puleeze. atleast save us the highlighting.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Pranay »

VinayB - Such a query would not have been made had you followed my posts since the inception of this thread.

Anyways, the said sections of the article were highlighted to show the hypocrisy of a government that is looking to hijack the mantle of "anti-corruption" away from Anna Hazare and apportion it to itself...
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