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Can Pakistan survive without America?
F ass-al Qureshi
Pakistanis have been pushed into a state of turmoil, divided into factions, and drowned in hopelessness. An environment which keeps pushing our best brains out of the country; leaving behind a population that is dependent not only on its failed leaders, but also their foreign masters who help engineer their entry and exit from power. In addition, this exodus provides a highly capable, yet cheap workforce to countries like America, Canada, United Kingdom, and Australia. Eventually our own brains, our assets, are used against us in more ways than one. Truly Machiavellian.Pakistan was a nation poised for greatness. An agricultural country capable of not just feeding itself, but a few others as well. A country with great natural resources. Pakistan’s sportsmen dazzled the world of Cricket, Hockey, and Squash for decades, and are capable of much more. This soil has produced philosophers, scholars, artists, poets, painters, physicians, and even nuclear scientists. A people with more than average intelligence by any standard. Even today, the world’s record setting students are Pakistanis.Pakistan is the only country whose armed forces defend their land and people for a belief, a faith, and a purpose
China backs Pak bid for non-permanent UNSC seat, India upset Times of India - 12 hours ago
BEIJING: India's hopes of obtaining Chinese backing for a seat in the United Nations Security Council came up against a rock with the Chinese foreign ministry saying on Wednesday that it was seriously considering Pakistan's case for the coveted place.
India should propose Burma/Afghanistan and get others P4 support. Let's see whom china chooses.
I assumed the temporary seat. But it looks like the permanent seat
this is really amusing....LMAO'ing all the way. no world leader worth his 2 cents will ever let Pak become a UNSC member while they're in power. the idea is almost laughable. this is one bluff which India can and SHOULD call.
Acharya wrote:China backs Pak bid for non-permanent UNSC seat, India upset Times of India - 12 hours ago
BEIJING: India's hopes of obtaining Chinese backing for a seat in the United Nations Security Council came up against a rock with the Chinese foreign ministry saying on Wednesday that it was seriously considering Pakistan's case for the coveted place.
The Chinese are behaving frustrated like spoilt brats. They are upset with India. Of course "india is upset" is stupid news. the right reaction to this would be ROTFL! The Chinese are taking this UNSC thing to heart and are shiiting in their own living room to try and drive India out.
I think China is showing her weaknesses in this pointless tamasha. What is interesting to me is that I am gradually getting an insight into China piskology. Goody.
ramana: I only brought up the business with balochistan because there is a past connection that ties the paki with iran to destry the baloch. The baloch were instigated in the first place by Iraq as their part of Saddam's anti iran policies, and the close relationship saddam had with India may have given him occasional logestic support in his efforts in supplying the baloch fighting iran. One of the random events I wrote about in my post was the iranians arresting some pakis when they crossed into iran from balochistan 2-4 days ago. 10% of the sunni baloch live in shia iran's balochistan provence, and those iranian baloch have been very restive (more than usual) ever since the gulf war started Those pakis may or not have been baloch, but if they were running guns into iran - for the iranian baloch, that would be very significant. This may be a part of a deal between US & the paki - the paki turns up the violence in iran by supplying weapons to the iranian baloch & keeping them supplied with arms, and the nasty business with the paki's army/isi would go away. Ofcourse, in return, the paki baloch are persuaded by US/NATO to give up their jihaad against the paki. This would clean up the paki for the US, and start some thing in iran with the paki's help and get the paki baloch to cease fire to lower the conflicts on the subcontinent. This type of deal is fully in charecter of the paki pea brain that is alway on the look out for any material/poltical/financial etc gain or any thing that can be a source of many oppertunities. The imbicile paki does not realize, until too late that as direct fall out from such a deal the paki will probably lose their own balochistan and make them geopolotocally irrelevent and impotent. The baloch, allied with the US will make sure of that at the end. But for the right and now, the paki will be gloating over how it stared down the mighty US. This is all speculation, ramana, and anyone here with a bit of time on their hands can do the same or better. I was just posting to point out that small, inconsequental events can tie in very large events yet to come.
Last edited by parsuram on 20 Oct 2011 10:42, edited 1 time in total.
Aaloo Aundey looks like hit already......it has nice zing to it ..congrats to all the folks who made that happen. Considering the editing/direction skill that went into it...it is yindoo kanspiracy onlee..
>>> ‘If you want a bullet through my head, like this video,’ scribbled on it.
do a few more...bollywood will embrace you
I think too much is being made of Aloo Andey. The guitar skills of that young Paki denotes that he comes from the RAPEst of RAPEs. The "Private school" tie and trousers put the men firmly in the top 5% of Pakistanis when mango Packee Abdul is represented by this photo: (Click on image)
This rah rah Pakistani gyan has been reported in the TOIlet of India too and is then going to serve as proof of how "Pakistani" music is greatly admired and copied in India.
The video could well be inspired by the propagandu wing of Paki establishment to show how free a press and how open a culture Pakistan has and how normal it is. So please quit the fawning.
Last edited by shiv on 20 Oct 2011 09:00, edited 1 time in total.
In addition, this exodus provides a highly capable, yet cheap workforce to countries like America, Canada, United Kingdom, and Australia. Eventually our own brains, our assets, are used against us in more ways than one. Truly Machiavellian.Pakistan was a nation poised for greatness. An agricultural country capable of not just feeding itself, but a few others as well. A country with great natural resources. Pakistan’s sportsmen dazzled the world of Cricket, Hockey, and Squash for decades, and are capable of much more. This soil has produced philosophers, scholars, artists, poets, painters, physicians, and even nuclear scientists. A people with more than average intelligence by any standard. Even today, the world’s record setting students are Pakistanis.Pakistan is the only country whose armed forces defend their land and people for a belief, a faith, and a purpose
ManishH wrote:^^^karo-kari doesen't mean "make black"; it means black(guy) and black(girl). The black alludes to the supposed dis-honour.
Thanks for the info. Too late to correct the video though. I think the correct info an be added as a video comment. But what is interesting is that the word for black in Kannada is "kari". The word is similar in Tamil as well.
Shiv avure...the impact factor of an english new paper article or that of magazine or even of news analysis program..say that of Najam Sethi's aapas ki baat is limited by its reach. But song and movie are a different ball game and that too combining with aspects of creativity such as this song. This is a capability question and who else understands this better than those having it. We have it (in bollywood) and so has unkil (in hollywood). Countries would kill to posses something like these.
With the disgrace of entertainment industry that is in Pak, I don't think one can create this type of art on-demand. Even if it really is....benefit of encouraging this type is more than adverse cost we might incur due to its popularity.
Satya_anveshi wrote:Shiv avure...the impact factor of an english new paper article or that of magazine or even of news analysis program..say that of Najam Sethi's aapas ki baat is limited by its reach. But song and movie are a different ball game and that too combining with aspects of creativity such as this song. This is a capability question and who else understands this better than those having it. We have it (in bollywood) and so has unkil (in hollywood). Countries would kill to posses something like these.
With the disgrace of entertainment industry that is in Pak, I don't think one can create this type of art on-demand. Even if it really is....benefit of encouraging this type is less than adverse cost we might incur due to its popularity.
Satya Anveshi, whom do you believe the video is aimed at? Right here on these forums was posted another video of a Paki bearded old Abdul singing a long lament in Punjabi about Pakistan where he was critical of the fauj and government and prices. He has no English subtitles, no provocative sarcastic western style humor like "Click like if you want me shot", no English posters with clever messages. Needless to say that video although containing the same amount of gyan about Pakistan did not make it to Times of India or Nadeem Paracha. This is an elite video which will be seen by the English speaking elite of Pakistan and India. And cheered by them. Click on the stats grid of that video to see who is watching that video. Pakistan registers the maximum hits, followed by Canada, Britain, Saudi Arabia, ad USA. India too. Where do the maximum number of Paki expatriates live? Where is internet access the best?
This is an informative video about the extent of Indian spy agency RAW's operations inside Pakistan..Former DG ISI Gen Ziauddin talks about the undercover Hindu agents caught by ISI in the late 90's who were posted to spread sectarian violence in Pakistan in the garb of Mullahs..One of them had even become the Imam of an important mosque in Rawalpindi..
It is all blame on Raa only
Upendra wrote: As a supporter of equality i want them to face the same set of danger that common Indians are forced to confront daily. Why would you take this as an insult? Equality is never an insult.
It is not equality that one is talking about. It is calling for beheading that is unacceptable to this forum.
This is an informative video about the extent of Indian spy agency RAW's operations inside Pakistan..Former DG ISI Gen Ziauddin talks about the undercover Hindu agents caught by ISI in the late 90's who were posted to spread sectarian violence in Pakistan in the garb of Mullahs..One of them had even become the Imam of an important mosque in Rawalpindi..
It is all blame on Raa only
The hand gestures and body language suggests that he is not lying. On the other hand these people are trained to send wrong signals to people who read these micro gestures and body language.
Shiv avure, OK, I understand your perspective. Given the zing the song has it will obviously be well liked in other regions and given that song is in Punjabi (pretty fast one at that) instead of one sung like a things or thumri. I thought subtitles make it to understand the attack. On the contrary, if there were no subtitles, one may very well say..WTH...no one really understood the meaning...like a tree fell in a forest and no one saw, did it make sound?
I am open for corrections and will continue to keep an eye on how this thing plays out.
Satya_anveshi wrote:Shiv avure, OK, I understand your perspective. Given the zing the song has it will obviously be well liked in other regions and given that song is in Punjabi (pretty fast one at that) instead of one sung like a things or thumri. I thought subtitles make it to understand the attack. On the contrary, if there were no subtitles, one may very well say..WTH...no one really understood the meaning...like a tree fell in a forest and no one saw, did it make sound?
I am open for corrections and will continue to keep an eye on how this thing plays out.
The YouTube channel where that video appeared is called "Media180"
Media180 is a commercial publicity company of Pakistan. This aloo andey video is their most popular video - . All ther other videos are Paki advertisements made for clients.
Media180s web page and Facebook page say this:
Location
Lahore, Pakistan-
Description
The Media 180 is a concept owner company, committed to take up challenging ideas and turning them into realities. Media 180 also deals in pre to post production (electronic and print media) and product development. Media 180 with its art of creativity and dedicated, talented and versatile professionals provides an effective communication strategy for every target, based on comprehensive research and original ideas, for every client. We combine marketing expertise, art and technology, providing your company with a distinct competitive edge.
Mission
We produce Print and Electronic material for every conceivable type of client, industry and purpose, and strive to be the very best at what we do…and what's more, we absolutely love it.
Products
We're increasingly asked to produce videos, websites, product branding and communication strategies for all areas of 'business communication' and media.
We’ll brainstorm with you to devise a strategic plan and provide you with the product you have been dreaming about. Our team can be on their way to your place or far away location in a heartbeat. Our experienced staff can help you from pre production to post production to make your project successful
Email [email protected]
Website http://themedia180.com
In reply to a question about whether this page is "Beygairat Brigade's page" the reply from media 180 is:
The band page for beygairat brigade on Youtube has no videos at the time of posting this message. That is odd.
This Aloo Andey video is being promoted by someone who is using this media180 company to promote the video.
It's popularity is no accident. Someone has a stake in promoting this video. The question is who?
Last edited by shiv on 20 Oct 2011 10:02, edited 1 time in total.
shiv wrote:
The band page for beygairat brigade on Youtube has no videos at the time of posting this message.
This Aloo Andey video is being promoted by someone who is using this media180 company to promote the video.
It's popularity is no accident. Someone has a stake in promoting this video. The question is who?
Would yo be surprised if the dude exiled in London is promoting this video for youth support so that he can get back into the game?
PESHAWAR - At least six militants were killed when security forces targeted their suspected hideouts in Central Kurram Agency on Wednesday.
Sources said that security forces used heavy artillery gun against militant hideouts in mountainous areas of Aspircoat in Central Kurram agency. According to security forces at least six militants were killed during the crackdown. The security forces also claimed that two of militant hideouts were destroyed during the targeted action.
The sources said that operation was launched on Wednesday morning in which security forces targeted militants of Mulla Tofan Group who are operating in the central parts of the Agency.
shiv wrote:
The band page for beygairat brigade on Youtube has no videos at the time of posting this message.
This Aloo Andey video is being promoted by someone who is using this media180 company to promote the video.
It's popularity is no accident. Someone has a stake in promoting this video. The question is who?
Would yo be surprised if the dude exiled in London is promoting this video for youth support so that he can get back into the game?
He is specifically critical of Imran Khan on the video. But also of the Army. To me it looks like a video aimed at improving Pakistan's image as a modern, moderate, self critical society. The message is to the west mainly. No Pakistani group ever puts English translations of lyrics in their songs - some of which are actually quite good. And posters in English? This is not aimed at Pakis.
A look into various opinions in TSP regarding MFN status. Apart from the usual jehadi type linking everything to cashmere, which is probably the majority, a few others are thinking logically also. Read the entire article. Call to address traders’ concerns before MFN status to India
LAHORE: Bilateral Indo-Pak trade will benefit both the countries if the trade is done on fair grounds. Though consultations on giving the Most Favored Nation (MFN) status to India are underway, the country will not get the status unless it addresses Pakistani traders and businessmenís concerns.
India gave the MFN status to Pakistan years ago but it in fact did not remove the non-tariff barriers, hence the status was unable to boost trade between the countries. These views were expressed by discussants at the Jang Economic Session on ëIs the MFN status to India unavoidable for Pakistan?í held here.
The discussants were renowned economist Dr Rafique Ahmed, SAARC Chamber of Commerce and Industry vice-president Iftikhar Ali Malik, Federation of Pakistan Chamber of Commerce and Industry (FPCCI) former vice president Mian Muhammad Idrees, Pakistan Pharmaceutical Manufacturers Association (PPMA) vice-chairman Shahzab Akram and Farmers Associate of Pakistan (FAP) director Abad-ur-Rehman. The event was jointly hosted by Sikindar Hameed Lodhi and Intikhab Tariq.
Dr Rafique Ahmed said that the history of Indo-Pak relations was very strange. Trade always benefits the public if it is done on fair grounds but India always cheated Pakistan, he said, adding that successful bilateral trade was not possible until political and other issues related to Kashmir and water were resolved.
He said world bilateral examples could not be applied on Indo-Pak trade relations. He said India had ruling mentality while it had given the MFN status to Pakistan on papers only while completely using non tariff barriers for its benefits. He said strong Indian economy could create difficulties for Pakistan trembling economy. He said India followed the micro level studies before making trade related decisions while Pakistan was far behind in this regard. He said sovereignty of Pakistan was vital. He said incomplete preparation on the Pakistan side to give MFN status would further put the country in trouble.
WASHINGTON, Oct 20 (APP): Islamabad’s ambassador to Washington Hussain Haqqani has said Pakistan and the United States have a shared interest in a stable Afghanistan but the major challenge for both the countries is to find common ground by taking into account political realities within Pakistan as well as Afghanistan. He was delivering a lecture at the University of California, Berkeley.
Haqqani said Pakistan believes America would benefit more by supporting the reconciliatory approach within the Afghan society including religiously conservative elements.
Commenting on the current state of Pakistan-U.S. relations, he said, that there are problems but they are not at a point, where abondonment is seen as the final answer by either side.
Pakistan’s democratic government, he said, is committed to working towards elemination of terrorsism at pace and time that works within its social and political order, it cannot undertake military operations that can have blowback for us without achieveing our ultimate objective of defeating terror.The diplomat hoped that Pakistan and the United States would be able to have a joint strategy for achieving the objective of creating a stable Afghanistan in a way that Pakistan concerns were also accomodated.
shiv wrote:
He is specifically critical of Imran Khan on the video. But also of the Army. To me it looks like a video aimed at improving Pakistan's image as a modern, moderate, self critical society. The message is to the west mainly. No Pakistani group ever puts English translations of lyrics in their songs - some of which are actually quite good. And posters in English? This is not aimed at Pakis.
Of course it is not aimed at mango abdul. This video is to rally "western" young pakjabi elite who might come in handy in case of open hostilities against US army in N. Waziristan. The stoked up patriotic "young" western pakjab elite would raise slogans and conduct demonstrations worldwide against US operations in Pakistan. They would say Army and mullahs are bad, Agreed, but America is doing more bad by attacking Paki territory. They are not admitting to anything new! They would then ask world to give a chance to "young enlightened western educated pakis" to set their house straight because they are "good pakis".
Its the same old wine in new bottle. I hope US is not that stupid
Shiva wrote: popularity is no accident. Someone has a stake in promoting this video. The question is who?
this page belongs to a person who associates media180 with Geo. To me looks an entrepreneur in media industry who has following and using that as leverage but am sure there is more to it and not necessarily pro-PA so sometimes caution is required how much we dig.
there are other videos on his page which may of interest. There is ofcourse a large segment of viewer base that is taster type who may be the target of interest.
ramana wrote:parsuram, I think the timing is off. The Baloch uprising was circa 1976-77. The Iran Iraq war was after 1980.
I have no takleef with rest of the post about small butterflies in rain forest setting off thunder storms.
ramana ji:
namashkar. You are right, ofcourse. So Saddam instigated the bloch before iran launched its offensive (occupation of shat-al-arab) - that means Saddam must have had a strong aversion to iran and its ayatollahs going back a ways. Perhaps the ayatollahs were also stirring up iraq's shia minority in the south. The Shah had not fallen, and the ayatollah attack from France was just by cassette taped messages. Those would also have targetted iraqi shia - after all, the iranian ayatollah revolution had strong religeous underpinnings. Why would Saddam help start a political/military uprising among the baloch? Ofcourse India had no objection to his meddling in iran and the paki - both being rabidly anti Indian. I had never paid attention to the dates, and it appears that there is a story here that might have bearing on current conflicts in the paki.
He said that in 2001 defence spending was 4.6 percent of the GDP while it had now gone down to 2.4 percent of the GDP.
This tells me that pakis are really bullshitting about thier GDP, no way TFTA khakis would allow thier share of defense spending to come down. In fact this shows thier actual GDP could be around 47% below their claims.
Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani has said that United States should have to think “10 times” before taking any unilateral action against Pakistan. Pakistan is not like Afghanistan or Iraq.
He also rejected the allegations of US that Pakistan is using Haqqani network for proxy war in Afghanistan and said that “The problem lies in Afghanistan, not Pakistan”, adding that Pakistan did not want to face any challenge in its Eastern and Western frontiers.
David Headley is a Pakistani-American who helped plot the Mumbai massacre nearly three years ago. More than 160 people were killed during a several day seige of the Indian capital.
Clips from the FBI tape of Headley's interrogation were just released by federal prosecutors in Chicago but only after a judge's order.
The Chicago man who became public enemy number one in India is heard speaking publicly for the first time.
...
jagbani wrote:Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani has said that United States should have to think “10 times” before taking any unilateral action against Pakistan. Pakistan is not like Afghanistan or Iraq.
Time for TSP to take a Hitler bold H&D type decision. Declare war on America before they can do the same.
jagbani wrote:Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani has said that United States should have to think “10 times” before taking any unilateral action against Pakistan. Pakistan is not like Afghanistan or Iraq.
Time for TSP to take a Hitler bold H&D type decision. Declare war on America before they can do the same.
Thing is, the paki has been at war with the US going back to Clinton's cruise missile attacks on terrorist camps hosted by the paki. As usual, the paki did not disclose its decision to go to war with the Americans to the Americans, thinking "let them figure it out". The dumb part is that it took the US over ten years to figure it out.
KABUL: A major offensive is under way against Haqqani militants in eastern Afghanistan and Pakistan must act to remove safe havens on its side of the border, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Thursday.
“We are taking action against the Haqqanis. There was a major military operation inside Afghanistan in recent days,” she told a joint news conference with Afghan President Hamid Karzai.
“It continues. That has been rounding up and eliminating Haqqani operatives on this side of the border,” she added.
The top US diplomat also said there was an “international effort to squeeze the Haqqanis with their funding and other aspects of their operations”.
The United States recently accused the Haqqanis of orchestrating a 19-hour siege of the US embassy in Kabul, a September truck bombing on a Nato outpost that wounded 77 Americans and a June attack on Kabul’s InterContinental hotel.
Clinton confirmed that the United States believes the network operates out of a “safe haven in Pakistan”.
“And now it’s a question as to how much cooperation Pakistanis will provide in going after those safe havens,” she added.
Clinton is later Thursday due in Pakistan, where she is to be joined by CIA chief David Petraeus and top US military officer Martin Dempsey.
“We intend to push the Pakistanis very hard as to what they are willing and able to do with us…to remove the safe havens and the continuing threats across the border to Afghans,” said Clinton.
