Sri Lanka - News and Discussion

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 24 Oct 2011 17:19

Stan_Savljevic wrote:http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/feat ... raj-201109
And he was angered by the group’s failure to check on his family while he was in prison. Rudra says, “So I decided: I’m going to bring them down.”
...
... in April 2004, when Chandru told him that Father Gaspar Raj, a Catholic priest who was also a key Tamil Tiger member, had been detained by federal agents at Newark and was about to be deported. Rudra says: “I called Jay Kanetkar and said he should get him out, and he did.”

That is Jegath Casper, the vocal frontsman in TN today. Rajakumar (Raj) Rajaratnam's father is Jesuthasan Rajaratnam, no ambiguity in which religious affinity the two were closer to.
In all it raised more than $7 million. While money did go to the Sri Lankan government, nearly half of it was given to the T.R.O. in the U.S. and in Sri Lanka.
So the GoSL indeed took money from a known LTTE funder, wow, this takes the cake.

!

Isnt this guy also a joint trustee of Tamil Maiyam, a NGO along with Kanimozhi (Karunanidhi's daughter) and this NGO got into some controversy last year.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 24 Oct 2011 19:49

Aditya_V wrote: Isnt this guy also a joint trustee of Tamil Maiyam, a NGO along with Kanimozhi (Karunanidhi's daughter) and this NGO got into some controversy last year.

Yes, he was in suud afrika for a while, came to India as the Lord asked him to convert the heathens.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 24 Oct 2011 21:02

^^^ He is very close to Kanimozhi and was organizer of the Tamil Sangam with her

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 24 Oct 2011 23:54

Jarita wrote:^^^ He is very close to Kanimozhi and was organizer of the Tamil Sangam with her

This was before she became very close to andimuthu raja!!

kani is very friendly that way as per all reports from madras.

Maybe one has to be friendly to run an NGO, no?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 25 Oct 2011 10:36

Chetak,the word "friendly" has dangerous connotations as I have learnt bitterly!

Aeons ago in my salad (cradle-snatching) days, I was asked by a nubile "friend" of mine whether I had been "friendly" with a certain girl.Not understanding the idiom of the day,as she was decidedly younger than I ,I reeled off the names of several of my (platonic) girl friends whom she knew well.There was a look of shock on her face as she mistakenly thought that the list of names I had mentioned had been my conquests and our budding romance ended up as a "brief encounter"!

Jaspar Gaspar whatever and a host of other notable names have all been supping with the devil-the lately deceased fuhrer Prabhakaran.The Eelamists planned their strategy very well in Tamilnadu,hooking onto their line,amenable,pliable politicos who would sell their souls for 30 pieces of silver.The game is being played in right earnest now as the Eelamists having had their champion exterminated with extreme prejudice,are now trying to regroup and launch another Eelam campaign from the shores of Tamilnadu.The number of so-called religious "priests" and "pastors" who are actually raking in money through religion and not bothering where it all comes from is legion.War and disasters are immensely profitable to the nefarious and deviant class.Very recently I was told by a long-time Brit. resident,that the Eelamists were still extremely active in their illegal "pursuits" in the UK,with the British govt. turning a blind eye to their illegal activities.Typical Brit hypocrisy.One standard for Prabhakaran and the LTTE and another for Gaddhafi!

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 Oct 2011 15:41

Philip wrote:Chetak,the word "friendly" has dangerous connotations as I have learnt bitterly!

Aeons ago in my salad (cradle-snatching) days, I was asked by a nubile "friend" of mine whether I had been "friendly" with a certain girl.Not understanding the idiom of the day,as she was decidedly younger than I ,I reeled off the names of several of my (platonic) girl friends whom she knew well.There was a look of shock on her face as she mistakenly thought that the list of names I had mentioned had been my conquests and our budding romance ended up as a "brief encounter"!

Jaspar Gaspar whatever and a host of other notable names have all been supping with the devil-the lately deceased fuhrer Prabhakaran.The Eelamists planned their strategy very well in Tamilnadu,hooking onto their line,amenable,pliable politicos who would sell their souls for 30 pieces of silver.The game is being played in right earnest now as the Eelamists having had their champion exterminated with extreme prejudice,are now trying to regroup and launch another Eelam campaign from the shores of Tamilnadu.The number of so-called religious "priests" and "pastors" who are actually raking in money through religion and not bothering where it all comes from is legion.War and disasters are immensely profitable to the nefarious and deviant class.Very recently I was told by a long-time Brit. resident,that the Eelamists were still extremely active in their illegal "pursuits" in the UK,with the British govt. turning a blind eye to their illegal activities.Typical Brit hypocrisy.One standard for Prabhakaran and the LTTE and another for Gaddhafi!

Nubile "friend"!

I sincerely grieve for your loss.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 25 Oct 2011 21:55

War crime charges against SL President in Australia
http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/war-c ... herstories

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 26 Oct 2011 20:19

Delhi balks at rights cell
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1111026/j ... 669783.jsp

Lanka seashells for Kali abode
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1111026/j ... 668536.jsp

Dancing with death
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1111016/j ... 628548.jsp

Not everybody, however, shares his sentiment. ‘League’ Mohan, the son of Congressman Munnuswamy, who died in the bomb blast along with Rajiv Gandhi, is angry about the increasing demand for pardon. “Tamil Nadu’s people will not forget or forgive these people who killed not just Rajiv Gandhi, who was not an ordinary man, but 16 others,” he says. “If we allow the convicts to go scot-free it will become easy for youngsters to commit murder and come out of jail later to pursue a normal life,” says Mohan.
...
E.V.K.S. Elangovan, a senior state Congress leader, also believes that the convicts have to be hanged. “The world is in the grip of terrorism and this evil has to be eradicated. If terrorists are not punished we are encouraging them to take root in Tamil Nadu. The Supreme Court may pardon the prisoners but we will not. We will insist they be given the death penalty,” he says.

The case, clearly, is still being debated over. D.R. Karthikeyan, former CBI director and head of the Special Investigation Team that probed the assassination, believes that there is a case for commuting the death sentence to life. “If the sentence of one of the four (Nalini) has been commuted, then all have to be treated equally. The mental torture of filing a mercy petition 11 years ago and being in jail for 20 years is punishment enough,” he says.

The INC and Sonia mata establish ghastly precedents by commuting people's death sentence for vote and the country has to bear the cost of this precedence forever. Whoever was the advisor to such acts, may be some TNCC loser will take responsibility.

Beyond the scars --- T.M. KRISHNA
http://www.thehindu.com/arts/music/article2562253.ece

The connection of the people with India is far deeper and older than the very identities of India and Sri Lanka and hence the natural connection. India has a lot to offer. Yes infrastructure and money are essential but the support to human reconstruction should be our greatest contribution. To us in the south, the Tamils are very similar and we understand their ways and thoughts better than anyone else. If anyone can contribute to their emotional well-being and rebuilding it is us. Society is a fabric of people and therefore we need to address emotions through culture and history to create a conscious strong society. I believe that music, dance, drama, and literature have to play a serious part in India's initiative for Northern Sri Lanka. Not just as a balm but to actually revive an age old connection that we have forgotten but they have not. A cultural connect that we can use to give them more self belief, pride and faith in themselves and their lives.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 28 Oct 2011 20:04

Centre strongly opposes commuting sentence of Rajiv assassins
http://www.thehindu.com/news/states/tam ... 576556.ece

The Centre said that “just because some eminent personalities, social organisations, political parties, MPs, MLAs, former judges and jurists have written to the government of Tamil Nadu or to the President of India it cannot be considered to be a valid ground to commute the death sentence awarded to the petitioners into life imprisonment."

If such views were to be considered as legally valid and sufficient to commute the death sentence awarded to the petitioners into life imprisonment, “that will constitute a bad precedent and in future is likely to create and be a cause for communal and religious protests and unrest.

Assemblies cannot seek clemency for death-row convicts: Achary
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 574161.ece

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 02 Nov 2011 20:18

http://zeenews.india.com/news/south-asi ... 37125.html
India to help restoration of Hindu temple in Lanka

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 04 Nov 2011 00:18

^^^
Hmm....I can understand ASI giving technical expertise, why spend Indian tax payers' money? How is it helping establishing normalcy? If GoSL spent that money and India collaborated them giving non-monetary assistance, then one could say GoSL is working towards normalcy.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 04 Nov 2011 12:33

And now ridiculously,the GOI is giving money instead to the displaced northern Tamils,many of whom whole-heartedly supported the LTTE and their fuhrer as the contractor supposed to built the lakh+ homes has been a miserable failure!

This shows what I've been saying for decades now that the GOI/MEA are prime cretins when it comes to diplomacy in the island.What message does it give the Lankans? That India cannot even build a few small low-cost relief housing while the Chinese can in the blink of an eye build a whopping new international port and airport to come,plus a spanking new cultural centre in the heart of Colombo,another Chinese landmark in the Lankan capital to add to the BMICH,the Lankan Supreme Court,the memorial centre for Mrs.B at the BMICH and on the west coast,the Norocholai power project!

The MEA should've instead given the contract to someone like L&T who have plenty of experience in building in the island,or one of the reputed Lankan construction companies instead who would've done a far better job.Our new Foreign Sec.,who visited the island recently and made the decision to give the locals a "handout",has had experience of serving in the island as a diplomat.Surely he knows that this will be seen as a "retreat" by India and make us the laughing stock of the region? When the Asian Tsunami hit the island and caused grievous damage,the Indian armed forces-army and navy,where there within 48 hours with instant relief.When the Yanquis arrived a month later they found that there was nothing for them to do as our jawans,medical teams and naval salvage experts had already put Galle Harbour back into shape and had managed to alleviate the suffering of the southerners a great deal with their timely assistance and relief works.If I was our For.Sec. I would've sacked the contractor on the spot and asked L&T or a local company to take over.What a disgrace.

PS:We've yet to clear KKS port of its sunken ships and make it operational again,long after the promises made and in the same time the PRC finished building the Hambantota Port!

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 07 Nov 2011 21:01

India should take tough action against Lanka: Jayalalithaa
http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 66018.aspx

There are multiple options to tackle Srilankan attacks and the failure of Indian Navy to protect Tamils

first option is to allow Tamil Fishermen to protect themselves with an arms! or organise themselves in a cooperative way and then buy or hire war ships to protect themselves from this Srilankan army brigands! Srilankan army is behaving like Sea priates of Somalia!

Second option is to allow Tamil Nadu Government to buy gun ships to protect their fisherfolks along with or without the help of Indian Navy who does not want to help or protect Tamil Fishermen or receive orders from Central government not to protect Tamil Fishermen there

Third TN Government should file a case on its own by passing a resolution in their assembly against SL Navy and then place a criminal case against them in the International courts and request UN to bring in their own army to protect TN Fishermen from SL Army.

Fourth Option is to pass is to pass a resolution to claim Katchatheevu and ask TN MPs to resign if there is no action taken

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 07 Nov 2011 21:11

Look from the people's angle. What do you expect the "Northern tamils" to do, but support LTTE? When the rubber meets the road there was just one entity (which had wiped out others) to back on. The innocents, here, or elsewhere on the planet are always caught between warring groups.

The problem with India is after bitten once(IPKF fiasco), it just put things on the back burner.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 07 Nov 2011 21:11

joshvajohn wrote:India should take tough action against Lanka: Jayalalithaa
http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 66018.aspx

There are multiple options to tackle Srilankan attacks and the failure of Indian Navy to protect Tamils

first option is to allow Tamil Fishermen to protect themselves with an arms! or organise themselves in a cooperative way and then buy or hire war ships to protect themselves from this Srilankan army brigands! Srilankan army is behaving like Sea priates of Somalia!

Second option is to allow Tamil Nadu Government to buy gun ships to protect their fisherfolks along with or without the help of Indian Navy who does not want to help or protect Tamil Fishermen or receive orders from Central government not to protect Tamil Fishermen there

Third TN Government should file a case on its own by passing a resolution in their assembly against SL Navy and then place a criminal case against them in the International courts and request UN to bring in their own army to protect TN Fishermen from SL Army.

Fourth Option is to pass is to pass a resolution to claim Katchatheevu and ask TN MPs to resign if there is no action taken

Sorry to rain on the parade.

The Indian fishermen are unquestionably crossing the maritime border.

The lankans are just protecting their territory.

The Indian fishermen simply covet the better fishing in lankan territorial waters and in their greed they are willing to take life threatening risks.

What does anyone want the GOI to do??

Why don't these guys who have fished out the Indian coastal waters in that area go out to deep sea?

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 07 Nov 2011 21:47

Chetakji,
Thanks for telling the truth as it is.
Everyone knows that tamizh fishermen cross into lankan waters because the yield there is high.Our fishermen are deliberately breaking laws.But noone can say that.

The Indian Navy is turning the other eye towards these transgressions?What more can it do.

Its well known that the tamizh fishermen in eezham have no love lost for TN fishermen encroaching their territory.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 07 Nov 2011 22:30

svenkat wrote:Chetakji,
Thanks for telling the truth as it is.
Everyone knows that tamizh fishermen cross into lankan waters because the yield there is high.Our fishermen are deliberately breaking laws.But noone can say that.

The Indian Navy is turning the other eye towards these transgressions?What more can it do.

Its well known that the tamizh fishermen in eezham have no love lost for TN fishermen encroaching their territory.

svenkat ji,

The Indian Navy or the Coast Guard are not turning a blind eye. They have nothing to with this sorry mess.

They cannot cross the maritime border and the lankan "aggression" takes place out of sight of the Indian Navy, Coast Guard and deep inside lankan waters where the Indian fishermen go and get caught.

Does karunanidhi or amma expect the lankans to compromise their territorial integrity for the sake of a few piddly votes which don't even concern them?

Lankan war crimes indeed.

They are all mouthing the ltte bullshit.

It's screamingly funny that these greedy fishermen are actually trying to pressurize the GOI and amma / karunanidhi are actually trying to pull it off. The GOI has enough intelligence reports to know what's what.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 07 Nov 2011 22:51

chetakji,
What I meant was IN and CG can stop our fishermen 'straying' in the direction of lankan waters.Clearly they are not stopping the 'illegal' activities of our fishermen,'because directives from GOI are in place'.What more can the IN and CG do?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 07 Nov 2011 23:04

svenkat wrote:chetakji,
What I meant was IN and CG can stop our fishermen 'straying' in the direction of lankan waters.Clearly they are not stopping the 'illegal' activities of our fishermen,'because directives from GOI are in place'.What more can the IN and CG do?

svenkat ji,

There are no directives from the GOI as you think. The GOI does not micromanage the affairs of the CG or IN in such a manner. Many times the CG and IN have offered to escort these fishing vessels to protect them from the lankans but they CANNOT cross the maritime border. To do so may be an act of war.

The coast line is too large to be patrolled like you say.

The local fishermen are always aware at all times of the exact position and activities of the IN and CG ships. They constantly communicate among themselves so as to make all aware of the location of these vessels and so can easily bypass them to enter lankan waters. This has been established by radio and mobile phone intercepts and the proof has been provided to the state government. The lankans have also provided similar proof of the deceit and chicanery of the local fishermen.

Needless to say that just like kundankulam and the nuclear agitation, there is a predominant community in action here and India hostile NGOs are also very active here.

It is their version of events that is carried in the DDM and press.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 07 Nov 2011 23:21

chetakji,
thanks for the clarification.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 07 Nov 2011 23:41

svenkat wrote:chetakji,
thanks for the clarification.

svenkat ji,

Stay off Lankan waters, Krishna to TN fishermen

Also the Indian fishermen in their greed for profit use bottom trawling and other illegal and banned nets that kill or catch even small, young fish and so they do not allow even normal breeding to take place. Since they have managed to kill off all the breeders by over fishing the Indian waters, they are demanding the "right" to stroll in and take lankan fish.

Sovereign nations don't work like that.

But however, pampered communities and anti national, ltte supporting NGOs do.

We are world champions at scoring own goals onlee.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 07 Nov 2011 23:58

To butt into this interesting discussion, bottom trawling is used by Bangladeshi fishermen too. Heard of hilsa shortage in Padma? Used by Indian as well as Pakistani fishermen in the Kutch border. Never heard of so many fishermen dying in cross-fires by Indian coast guard or the paki equivalent for violating Indian/paki sovereignty. Have you? I have heard of fishermen getting arrested, their boats and vessels get burnt, a torturous prisoner exchange process, etc. But most definitely not of people getting killed so extensively. So what gives into your interesting pontification? May be you should explain why you are so sensitive to one side violations, but not to the other side. Is it because you are openly biased against the religion of fishermen?

In any case,

Indian fishers in Palk Bay and Mandapam stated that accidental incursions of fishing vessels from both countries occur on a regular basis into each others’ waters. Based on interviews in the present study, the problem of illegal fishing in Palk bay and Mandapam are likely due to three reasons. Firstly, the Government of India has tried to solve the problem of incursions through increased patrolling along the international maritime boundary, instead of controlling the huge overcapacity of Indian trawlers operating along Palk Bay and Mandapam. The trawling grounds along the Palk Bay and Mandapam can hardly sustain fishing pressure from one third of the existing fleet. Fishermen from Palk Bay were of the opinion that since there is a narrow border separating India and Sri Lanka, accidental intrusions should be treated with utmost sensitivity through warnings, with crew and vessels being promptly released for such cases.
...
A common understanding seems to exist between India and Sri Lanka, with illegal tuna vessels from Sri Lanka and illegal Indian shrimp trawlers operating in each others’ jurisdiction being arrested and handed over to each others’ Coastguards on a regular basis. Information from Appendix V, shows that the number of illegal Sri Lankan tuna vessels operating in Indian waters has increased drastically, putting Indian tuna vessels at disadvantage. {how come SL fishermen are not dying for violating Indian sovereignty?} A recent media report suggests that almost all the multi-day tuna vessels that were caught illegally fishing for tuna in Indian EEZ during 2009 were handed over to Sri Lankan authorities (Anon 2010b).

A press release from Government of India revealed that 116 Sri Lankan fishing vessels were arrested in 2009 (Anon 2010c). Majority of the arrested vessels were multi-day tuna longliners. Data from GIFI database reveals that more than 100 of these apprehended Sri Lankan vessels in 2009 are tuna longliners. So, the Indian Government has lost (each multi-day Lankan tuna vessel has a current market price of US$ 57,631 per vessel) US$ 5,763,100 from 100 vessels which were handed over to Sri Lankan authorities after arrests. Return of illegal fishing vessels on both sides does not stand in good stead as majority of these illegal multiday tuna vessels in Sri Lanka and illegal fishing trawlers from India are owned by commercial interests and are seldom owned by fishermen. Handing over of the apprehended crew on both sides is a good move to improving bilateral relations, but Governments on both sides should confiscate fishing vessels implicated in illegal fishing.

Interviews were also conducted with Indian fishermen operating along the Indo-Pakistan and Indo-Bangladesh maritime boundary to understand the reasons for frequent arrests of fisherfolk on both sides of the border. Declaration of 5-10 km, no fishing zones on both sides of border along Indo-Pakistan & Indo-Sri Lanka regions can help in preventing accidental intrusion of small-scale fishers into each others’ jurisdiction. Indian fishermen in Gujarat stated that marker buoys with flags can help in preventing accidental intrusions into Pakistan and vice versa.

http://www.mrag.co.uk/Documents/IUU_India.pdf

And yes, India does have massive security problems in the Kutch border, so any illegal boat is a suspect. But still, we dont hear so many killings. I have heard of smuggler ring killings on the porous BD border, but not of fisherfolk. So something seems off, what is?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 08 Nov 2011 00:37

Stan_Savljevic wrote: And yes, India does have massive security problems in the Kutch border, so any illegal boat is a suspect. But still, we dont hear so many killings. I have heard of smuggler ring killings on the porous BD border, but not of fisherfolk. So something seems off, what is?

Stan_Savljevic ji,

I calls it like I sees it.

These very same "fishermen" openly supported the ltte during the hey days of the prabhakaran regime. They daily smuggled diesel fuel, medicines food and other items at black market rates to keep the eelam struggle going. The lankans hate these guys with all their heart.

These smuggled goods helped the ltte kill Indian Army soldiers.

What these fishermen are doing now is simply theft of lankan resources. Been going on for a really long time now. Do you expect the lankans to take it lying down?

Surprise, surprise! These fishermen are mostly from one community who feel that they are "entitled" and all should support them because of this entitlement. They are aided and abetted in this theft by ltte supporting NGOs who manage the press and publicity for them. Political parties lick their backsides because they form an effective vote bank.

These fishermen guys are exceptionally violent and they have grabbed and cornered most of the local resources because people are afraid and terrorized by their activities. Just like in kundankulam.

When gentle persuasion failed, the lankans used the only language that these goondas seem to understand. They started to shoot.

So now that these fishermen have understood that the lankans are no pushovers, they have been advised to play the victim card and in this business endeavor, they are ably supported by their anti India, ltte NGO friends.

Sound familiar?? just like in kashmir, no?

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 08 Nov 2011 01:08

The present congress government does not support Indian interests. If Tamils are Indians Indian govt should have support and spoken against any attacks on Indians - if Tamils in Tamil Nadu are considered to be Indians. This is the same thing that happens with Kashmiri Pandits. for the wider Interests of Country and to pacify Kashmiri Muslims many Hindu Pandits are allowed to be slained. This is not much different from our policies not to support people who live in the borders whether they are Hindus, Muslims or Christians. If Indian government is not interested to protect her people from any attacks then why do we need a government. There are international laws to follow even if one crosses the boundaries. Indian government never shot down Bangladeshis who came into North Eastern states. When they were sent back the Bangladesh army shot down many of their own Bangladeshi people but Indian government took that issue all over the world including threatening Bangladesh regarding water supply issues. So because Krishna does not like Tamils so he should support Srilankans. Because LTTE killed Rajiv Gandhi Tamil fishermen who are killed should be ignored. Because China is involved in Srilanka so we should be friendly and so let these Tamils die and so ignore the issue or support Lankan army. the present government is also ridiculing our armed forces because they create a hatred attitude towards our own army by Indian people. They ask our army to be spectators in Arunachel pradesh as Chinese move into the state inch by inch and people who support India are just humiliated. As a whole the present government does not give any importance to Indian people's interests. Because of the ministers are ready to sell any things for the money that they get. Every makes fortunes at the cost of anything that they can sell and so not bothered about India's interest or their own interests either.

Katchatheevu agreement makes it clear that Tamil Fishermen are allowed to fish around it. If this agreement is broken and people are killed then what you wish to call Lanka - I call them as a terror government. If the present Indian Congress govt supports it, it also has implications for such terror acts against innocent fishermen. The Lankan army is given green signal by the Indian govt to kill fishermen of Tamil NAdu who are armless civilians. This according to International law is criminal. If Indian govt does not take it seriously then TN govt should consult international lawyers to sue it in Hague for international water killing of Lankan terrorist army.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 08 Nov 2011 01:10

chetak wrote: I calls it like I sees it.

These very same "fishermen" openly supported the ltte during the hey days of the prabhakaran regime. They daily smuggled diesel fuel, medicines food and other items at black market rates to keep the eelam struggle going. The lankans hate these guys with all their heart.

Yes, they also say that they were forced to smuggle for ltte because of sustenance issues and their need to fish in SL waters to survive, almost all of which was under ltte control. From what some say in the vernacular media, it was a question of being caught between the devil and the deep sea. Some are thankful that the devil is gone, some are pissed that the devil has been replaced by something even more sinister in terms of their day2day survival. When you talk of tsunaminomics, care to show some light on how much money was pumped into So. TN and how much was pumped by amrikan EJs? For all I know with my limited digging, most of the FCRA money that gets pumped into TN stays in Madras and the surrounding districts (Kanchipuram, Dharmapuri, Vellore, N. Arcot/S. Arcot) and is used for buying prime property*. Wholesale shipping of FCRA cash to So. TN is something for which I have nt seen any evidence yet and so am asking you to throw light in this matter.

More interestingly, when you say "this" community, I mostly guess you mean the Pallars. The Pallars, the Nalavars and the Mukkuvars are themselves pitted against the Vellalars of Jaffna and against all kindsa castes in TN. The Pallars-Vellalar saga is one sordid one and is much of the progenitor of the LTTE-TULF-TELO divide. In fact, MGR saw LTTE as "our boys" while Mu Ka saw TELO as "our boys." Eeks. Some of the Pallar whine profile is in fact legitimate and goes to how they have been pitted under the British rule. You mix the nuances and make it sound like there is a monolithic Pallar sentiment across the palk straits. Barring a few idiots, I dont "see" any such pan-xyz sentiments. I do see the nutmegs that make the loudest noise too, so I can see the gamut of opinionating in this community as much as it paints itself in the vernacular media.

More generally, most of the people do what they need to do to survive. In fact, if you take the smuggling ring across the WB-BD border or Rajasthan-Guj-Punjab border with pakistan, much of it is done by people who have the edge of survival, one-upmanship and prosperity, all at the cost of propriety and any pan-Indian vision that gets pontificated by elites who have the prosperity to yak endlessly about these ideals. I did nt see any cussing at anyone for selling out India, did nt see anyone picking anyone's religion apart or pisking the whole process and the game that goes on. Just calling into question the par for the course on what goes and what does nt. And calling for a re-appraisal of the comparative norms. Because it seems rather ridiculous to be analytic when biases are all over the place.

* In fact, buying prime property is the biggest expenditure of CSI, as much as I can guesstimate.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 08 Nov 2011 01:17

joshvajohn wrote:The present congress government does not support Indian interests. If Tamils are Indians Indian govt should have support and spoken against any attacks on Indians - if Tamils in Tamil Nadu are considered to be Indians. This is the same thing that happens with Kashmiri Pandits. for the wider Interests of Country and to pacify Kashmiri Muslims many Hindu Pandits are allowed to be slained. This is not much different from our policies not to support people who live in the borders whether they are Hindus, Muslims or Christians. If Indian government is not interested to protect her people from any attacks then why do we need a government. There are international laws to follow even if one crosses the boundaries. Indian government never shot down Bangladeshis who came into North Eastern states. When they were sent back the Bangladesh army shot down many of their own Bangladeshi people but Indian government took that issue all over the world including threatening Bangladesh regarding water supply issues. So because Krishna does not like Tamils so he should support Srilankans. Because LTTE killed Rajiv Gandhi Tamil fishermen who are killed should be ignored. Because China is involved in Srilanka so we should be friendly and so let these Tamils die and so ignore the issue or support Lankan army. the present government is also ridiculing our armed forces because they create a hatred attitude towards our own army by Indian people. They ask our army to be spectators in Arunachel pradesh as Chinese move into the state inch by inch and people who support India are just humiliated. As a whole the present government does not give any importance to Indian people's interests. Because of the ministers are ready to sell any things for the money that they get. Every makes fortunes at the cost of anything that they can sell and so not bothered about India's interest or their own interests either.

Katchatheevu agreement makes it clear that Tamil Fishermen are allowed to fish around it. If this agreement is broken and people are killed then what you wish to call Lanka - I call them as a terror government. If the present Indian Congress govt supports it, it also has implications for such terror acts against innocent fishermen.

joshvajohn ji,

Why are these tamils hell bent on entering lankan waters?

Why don't they head out to open and deep sea? After all we own 200 kms of economic zone.

Why don't their NGO friends buy them new equipment to trawl out at sea??

Are we not noticing the remnants of the ltte slowly trying to regroup in TN?? Is this in our "tamils" interest? or even our interest??

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 08 Nov 2011 01:46

Stan_Savljevic wrote:
chetak wrote: I calls it like I sees it.

These very same "fishermen" openly supported the ltte during the hey days of the prabhakaran regime. They daily smuggled diesel fuel, medicines food and other items at black market rates to keep the eelam struggle going. The lankans hate these guys with all their heart.
Yes, they also say that they were forced to smuggle for ltte because of sustenance issues and their need to fish in SL waters to survive, almost all of which was under ltte control. From what some say in the vernacular media, it was a question of being caught between the devil and the deep sea. Some are thankful that the devil is gone, some are pissed that the devil has been replaced by something even more sinister in terms of their day2day survival. When you talk of tsunaminomics, care to show some light on how much money was pumped into So. TN and how much was pumped by amrikan EJs? For all I know with my limited digging, most of the FCRA money that gets pumped into TN stays in Madras and the surrounding districts (Kanchipuram, Dharmapuri, Vellore, N. Arcot/S. Arcot) and is used for buying prime property*. Wholesale shipping of FCRA cash to So. TN is something for which I have nt seen any evidence yet and so am asking you to throw light in this matter.

More interestingly, when you say "this" community, I mostly guess you mean the Pallars. The Pallars, the Nalavars and the Mukkuvars are themselves pitted against the Vellalars of Jaffna and against all kindsa castes in TN. The Pallars-Vellalar saga is one sordid one and is much of the progenitor of the LTTE-TULF-TELO divide. In fact, MGR saw LTTE as "our boys" while Mu Ka saw TELO as "our boys." Eeks. Some of the Pallar whine profile is in fact legitimate and goes to how they have been pitted under the British rule. You mix the nuances and make it sound like there is a monolithic Pallar sentiment across the palk straits. Barring a few idiots, I dont "see" any such pan-xyz sentiments. I do see the nutmegs that make the loudest noise too, so I can see the gamut of opinionating in this community as much as it paints itself in the vernacular media.

More generally, most of the people do what they need to do to survive. In fact, if you take the smuggling ring across the WB-BD border or Rajasthan-Guj-Punjab border with pakistan, much of it is done by people who have the edge of survival, one-upmanship and prosperity, all at the cost of propriety and any pan-Indian vision that gets pontificated by elites who have the prosperity to yak endlessly about these ideals. I did nt see any cussing at anyone for selling out India, did nt see anyone picking anyone's religion apart or pisking the whole process and the game that goes on. Just calling into question the par for the course on what goes and what does nt. And calling for a re-appraisal of the comparative norms. Because it seems rather ridiculous to be analytic when biases are all over the place.

* In fact, buying prime property is the biggest expenditure of CSI, as much as I can guesstimate.

Stan_Savljevic ji

A lot of EJ money is now being concentrated along the coastal belt for quite some time now. Just because the ltte was flushed down the toilet, it does not mean that the so called eelam has been given up by the main white skinned progenitors who still wish to wrest a separate proxy country that includes parts of India and Lanka.

For this to happen and from lessons learned from the first failed attempt they need complete control of the adjoining coastal areas.

That is why there is so much consolidation taking place along the coast and among the coastal communities. They are openly flexing their muscles in kundankulam and the ramnad coast

It may just be that the lankans are more keen to permanently subdue the eelam threat than India where such lazy democratic, demographic discussions are the norm and freedom for all prevails. For the lankans it was a matter of survival and for us it is seen as a pin prick.

When the same white skinned proxies moved in on east timor, did it not catch the host country by surprise and with it's pants down??

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 08 Nov 2011 02:05

See, now you are indulging in hyperbole that is vacuous.

I do see patterns on everything from RG hanging delay to Kudankulam to LTTE to election issues to FCRA cash to Tamil Mayyam to 2G. But having talked to nuff people who have been in the know on LTTE matters, I am not willing to buy the LTTE are EJ proxies argument based on pure hearsay and they bury their dead kinda nutjobbish conspiracies. Reality is more complicated. The LTTE were their own devils, who could kick anyone if that anyone did nt do their bidding. Anton Balasingham and Adele are there on one side, Vai Ko and casper types on another distant side, but so is the TNA faction, so is KP. Many are perfectly happy Muruga devotees without any need to be saved from what I hear. Junius babu himself was a convert from Catholicism, and he did immense damage to the dhamma than anyone else could have. You can go on and on and posit hypotheses that he himself was a plant by the vatican this and that. The point is bs-ing and CT-ing has become so par for the course that it makes me wonder why noone is raising inconvenient questions.

Now go back, and explain why the fishermen getting killed for fishing in SL waters is ok, while such atrocities are not there in such a mass scale anywhere else where India shares maritime borders. Is it because you are willing to turn your cheek in the mistaken belief of a hifalutin theory that Pallars == LTTE == EJ? We did see one of those hifalutin keyboard jehadis of the forum start a dhaaga with the TN == EJ premise and how anyone protesting that was an anglo-brahmin, are you doing a more sophisticated v2.0 of that? Seriously?! If you have been there on any of the missions, do tell us about the maritime geography and why mistaken crossings are not possible. Do tell us about what kinda relationship the Jaffna tamils have with Thoothukudi or Pamban or Ramanathapuram tamils. I am willing to re-educate myself, but do stop the hint hint nudge winks that scream "trust me." I am not willing to trust god, let alone you.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Nov 2011 02:26

Pioneer Op-Ed:

Europe keeps LTTE alive

Tamil Tigers’ extinct in

Sri Lanka, but not abroad

Berlin: Daud Haider, well-known Bengali poet and our gracious host, was keen to treat us to a home-cooked meal which would include, apart from prawn curry, karela fry, which I presumed would be done Bangladeshi style, and daal with drumsticks.

On the way back to his apartment, tired and hungry after tramping around the city the whole day, we stopped by at a store owned by a Sri Lankan Tamil family. It had a narrow doorway and seemed more like a corridor that had been converted into a shop packed with shelves laden with generic desi groceries, spices and an enormous variety of dried fish. “Imported from Jaffna,” the young man at the counter told me, the hint of pride in his voice unmistakable. So was everything else at his store, barring the fresh green vegetables, which were possibly grown in a Berlin backyard, and the Basmati rice from Pakistan.

Daud did his shopping while I looked around, checking the stuff on display. That’s when I chanced upon a stack of flyers printed on glossy paper that had been kept in full view, obviously for the benefit of the store’s Tamil patrons. The flyers showed a solemn (though slain) chief of the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam in his trademark fatigues with a pistol in a hip holster against a black backdrop. The text, in Tamil, called upon all who “thirst for a Tamil homeland” to gather at Dortmund for a meeting to pay homage to their “national hero”. The significance of November 27, when the meeting is scheduled, was lost on me. If any reader has a clue, I would be grateful to be enlightened. Shopping done, we left the store with a copy of the flyer and Daud’s bagful of vegetables, including half-a-dozen very pale skinned karelas which could have done with some sunshine.

Over the next few days I asked around and found that two years after Velupillai Prabhakaran was killed, along with his lieutenants and cadre, and the LTTE obliterated by the Sri Lankan Army, the ruthless man who terrorised Sinhalese and brutalised Tamils alike is very much alive in the imagination of Germany’s — as well as Europe’s — Tamil diaspora. In life, Prabhakaran tested the loyalty of his ‘Tigers’, many of whom were in their early teens, by asking them to turn themselves into human bombs. Any ‘Tamil Tiger’ taken alive by security forces was under instruction to swallow a cyanide pill; nobody is known to have violated that order. Over the quarter century that he led a horrific campaign of terror for a Tamil Eelam, Prabhakaran set standards for terrorists around the world. The final battle against the LTTE was no doubt vicious and exacted terrible collateral damage, but in the end the evil that Prabhakaran and his organisation had come to symbolise were destroyed root and branch. On May 18, 2009, Prabhakaran was killed while trying to escape the military blockade of Mullaitivu. He met a violent end, as did the entire top leadership of the LTTE.

Not many tears were shed for him in Jaffna or elsewhere in Sri Lanka. If the Sinhalese were triumphant, the Tamil felt relieved. A dark era of death and destruction had come to an end. Sri Lanka had become the first and till now the only country to have won a decisive victory against terrorism. Such was the scale of its defeat that the LTTE became history in Sri Lanka. But in Europe, the LTTE survives, having morphed into various front organisations with seemingly misleading names. There’s a reason for this, apart from the emotional appeal of long-distance ‘nationalism’ to which diasporas tend to be vulnerable. Many of the Jaffna Tamils who had made their way to Europe and sought political asylum there, insisting they would suffer persecution and worse if forced to return home, a claim bolstered by the lurid propaganda of human rights groups like Amnesty International, became fund-raisers for the LTTE. They ran extortion rackets, forcing fellow Tamil immigrants to part with their meagre and miserable wages, indulged in human trafficking, bringing in young Tamil girls who were pushed into prostitution, and traded in proscribed drugs. The profits of their criminal enterprises were channelled into buying arms and ammunition for the LTTE that were routed back to Jaffna. After the US listed the LTTE as a terrorist organisation, the EU had no other option but to follow suit. But despite the EU ban on the LTTE, which came in May 2006, the activities of its front organisations remained uncurbed and unrestrained. The Tamil Coordination Committee alone was able to ‘raise’ three million euros between July 2007 and April 2009.

The recent trial of five Tamils, including Selliah, the ‘global book-keeper’ of the the LTTE, charged with mobilising funds through illegal means and trying to resurrect the LTTE, in a Dutch court fetched startling revelations. Prosecutor Ward Ferdinandusse told the court that “although the Tigers have been defeated in Sri Lanka, here in Europe they are very much alive”. The EU’s police coordination organisation, Europol, in its ‘Terrorism Situation and Trend Report’ for 2011 said ‘Tamil Tigers’ in Europe continue with their extortion and “are actively involved in drugs and human trafficking, the facilitation of illegal immigration, credit card skimming, money laundering, and fraud for the purpose of funding terrorist (support) operations”. Tragically, the Dutch court, while sentencing the five men to prison terms ranging from two to six years, refused to accept the prosecution’s case that the LTTE was and remains a terrorist organisation. This despite the EU’s official listing of the LTTE as a terrorist outfit. Stunningly, the court ruled that the LTTE’s war in which at least 100,000 lives have been lost, was a “non-international armed conflict” and hence could not be classified as terrorism but as ‘war crimes’ (by the state). The defence has seized upon the ruling to press its case for removing the LTTE from the EU’s list of terrorist organisations. It is more than likely that the European Court of Justice, where a petition for this purpose is pending, will pander to this self-defeating view.

The tolerance that is shown by Europe’s ‘liberal’ Governments and courts towards those who front for terrorist organisations, be it the LTTE or the LeT, the Taliban or Al Qaeda, only serves to underscore Europe’s duplicity. While mouthing clichés on the need to fight terrorism, it allows bogus concern for human rights to ride roughshod over genuine concerns in countries (like India and Sri Lanka) which have to deal with terrorists. Ironically, Europe stands to lose the most because of this duplicitous approach. Germany allows the LTTE flag to be displayed at football matches and LTTE propaganda material to be freely distributed. The district court in The Hague may have held five Tamils guilty of extortion and other crimes to raise funds for the LTTE’s revival, but that does not account for what 800,000 immigrant Jaffna Tamils are up to across the continent.

India cannot afford to take a casual view of this reality. Maoists have sympathisers among the Indian diaspora in Europe and human rights groups with considerable influence over European Governments jump to the defence of the Red Marauders every time they are brought to justice. Recall the extraordinary interest shown by the EU in securing the release of Binayak Sen on bail. New Delhi must forge a common front with Colombo. If it doesn’t, Beijing will do so. China’s gain will be India’s loss, though not for the first time.

Do read the comments.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 08 Nov 2011 03:14

The letters 'LTTE' is being used by the Lankan govt to abuse and kill Tamils and make them extinct in Lanka. For this the present Congress govt is fully going along with Lankan plans. When LTTE is extinct why Lanka bothers about it. Lankan are envying all these Lankan tamils who are growing in strong ways in Europe and US and Indian Congress and Lankan govt are really scared of the public opinion against them in the West particularly in relation to the massacre of Tamil Civilians after the war and the call for the International prosecution of the Lankan government and all those who are involved in such activities.

As I had argued in my previous emails more than Tamils it is Lankan government for its own survival and for continuing their own murders of Tamils (and some Sinhalese writers who crique the govt) and sending them out they need LTTE more. In a similar way Indian congress also seem to need LTTE more than anyone. Because in Lanka no one can question the govt for the high prices and whenever there is a criticism against the govt they simply play with emotionalism of Sinhala feelings. Also when Indians wanted to engage frankly the Lankan govt will go extramiles to invite Chinese and ready to offer whatever they wanted in order to scare Indians and get the maximum support to kill and send Tamils out. In this game Indian govt does not seem to know proper strategy of foreign policy to play the card rightly in order to protect her own people and also in order to raise the voice of those Tamils in Lanka. I do not think there is any proper intelligence thinking on the Part of Indian govt nowadays about foreign policy at all.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 08 Nov 2011 13:09

The "800,000" strong Jaffna Tamil diaspora in Europe obtained their refugee status thanks to a certain Tamil diplomat who was an envoy to an EU country at the time of the '83 pogrom.This individual,whose family I know well,made sure that the EU opened their doors as it was correct at the time that the Tamils in the island were being victimised.However,the refugee status obtained by the diaspora,was abused and they openly indulged in supporting the terrorist "cause",where even extortion by the LTTE was used in a large way to obtain a massive continuous source of funds that enabled the LTTE to set up ts international arms,drugs and other illegal activities,using the ill-gotten gains to acquire properties in the UK especially,petrol bunks,neighbourhood shops previously owned by Gujus who fled Uganda after Idi Amin arrived.

Now after the defeat of their fuhrer and the extermination of the entire LTTE cadre in the islan,the diaspora is devising new strategies and tactics to regroup and reengage the Lankan govt. as early as possible on the ground.Given the enormous difficulties in rsuming logistic supplies by sea,using the earlier methods of KP (now in GOSL custody),the diaspora have concluded that the key to retuning to the island lies in destabilising the state of TN ,where a pro-LTTE Eelamist agenda will be forced upon the central govt. through the machinations of dubious characters like Vaiko an co.,plus using pressure groups through infiltration and kickbacks to infuence whichever Dravidian party is in power to toe a pro-Eelamist line. I warned of this in the immediate aftermath of the LTTE's defeat,saying that TN would become the next battleground in the lust for Eelam.

It is also no coincidence that the use and abuse of the church by vested foreign entities both in Lanka and in TN is a fact and large sums of money are being channeled to these groups,both LTTE and EJ to create crisies within TN to get the centre to toe the Eelam line with regard to relations with the GOSL.The repeated fishing incidents are part of the plan,to always keep the situ tense and emotional.The KKM agitation is another major destabilisation project which has a nuclear dimension,running parallel to the overall goal.Here both the Eelamists and the foreign funded and led EJs are the two edges of the same sword that is being used by the foreign entities to keep the state and nation off balance.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 08 Nov 2011 13:59

Philip
You must be ignorant about the SL Tamils or you are articulating particular ignorance about Lankan Tamils in the north for some purpose of influence Hindus in India so that they will favour you point. Or possibly this is a general Srilankan attitude towards Tamils in the North.

Tamils in the North are 85-90 are Hindus. Minority are Christians and some Muslims. in the north east there are considerable muslims but still Hindus are majority. Many of these Hindus follow Saiva religion and come from Vellala caste and other castes. Even the fight against Sinhalese were divided across caste lines to many extent. LTTE was dominated by this pillai caste while they eliminated Dalit dominated other fighting groups.

Your argument of EJs is just nonsense there. Christianity among Tamils though minority is divided. There are catholics, Church of South India members and also Anglicans and Methodist besides some EJs. There are Charismatic groups also but these are minorities.

Some EJs appear in televisions and also those Lankans in Europe have become Christians in large numbers and also are charismatic groups. Interestingly many of these EJs in the Europe do not bother about getting a separate country in Lanka rather they are concern about their own prosperiety. It is the genearl Lanka group mainly Hindus who try to keep their aspirations alive but in less interested ways. If you do not know things just donot write whatever you wish to design a particular group so that your stereotypical descriptions will create support for your point of argument.

For me it is the mess up of the congress govt that has led to this situtation. If lankan govt does not settle this issue, it is not going to be over with.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 09 Nov 2011 08:13

Why should anyone in India bother about what happens in lanka and who does what to whom there? We don't really care a toss for the ill conceived attempts to obfuscate the real predicament by blatantly bringing in the red herring of caste based issues and the facts of political terrorism are being glibly glossed over.

The demographic and political changes in India and our adjoining coastal environs is what is of interest to us. These factors are controlled and orchestrated by out side sources inimical to the interests of our people and country.

The tamils in lanka have made their bed and they should now quietly lie upon it and contemplate their future without expecting India to pull their chestnuts out of the sinhalese fire.

The issue here is very simple. The demographic and social structures of Ramnad, Tuticorin, Kanyakumari and Tirunelveli districts have already changed considerably, and christianity has become second largest religion in the state.

It is support from the foreign powers ( commercial and others) that has motivated the local "priests" (educated but not cultured,well versed and knowing supply chain management principles and fund raising tactics - who are nothing but the regional representatives of such missionaries) to whip up sentiments on the fishing and nuclear issues as a great opportunity to consolidate the people and emerge as a dominant political entity. This may not be so true yet with other districts, but when it comes to these coastal districts, I am sure it is a well watered seedling that is on it's way toward becoming a political entity. They are attempting to build a foundation here before launching the eelam nonsense again. This will be stopped sooner if not later as the dimensions of this inculturation effort and its malevolent result has already been seen in lanka.

If you are unable to see the connections and understand the dynamics currently playing out then it is suggested that you look again after removing the filthy prism of caste which seems to be of such vital importance to you but matters not one whit to others.

No one here really cares about what happens in lanka or it's non Indian tamils but we greatly admire the way the lankans exterminated the ltte vermin. The entire world now knows the ideological and religious leanings of the ltte and it's malicious support base. This can no longer be hidden or glossed over or wished away.

India will not so easily allow the lankans to be tried for war crimes or some such contrived nonsense when there is a lot of explaining to do on the entire arab quagmire by the very forces that continue to support the ltte.

Do you really think that the future of India is going to be determined by the likes of nedumaran, vaiko and "father" jegat?

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 09 Nov 2011 09:37

chetak wrote:Why should anyone in India bother about what happens in lanka and who does what to whom there?

I too call it like I see it. The above line is a simplistic myopic naive ill-informed and thoughtless comment. One wanders into a "Strategic Issues & International Relations" dhaaga and posts an opinion. Wah re wah. I just hope you are nowhere near any strategic decision maker.

Stan, you are wasting your time. If the fishermen were Hindus, he would be singing different tunes.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Nov 2011 09:52

Chetak Thats a simplistic view and is in line with JLN and his nonsense about overseas Indians. He refused to give visas claiming that the Tamils in SL had chosen to be there when it was the accident of colonialism.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 09 Nov 2011 10:19

SwamyG wrote:
chetak wrote:Why should anyone in India bother about what happens in lanka and who does what to whom there?
Stan, you are wasting your time. If the fishermen were Hindus, he would be singing different tunes.

Well, hope the custodian of morality on geopolitics follows what he preaches and abstains from posting about any internal politics from now on, whether it be pak-e-satan or japan or us or whatever. Given that his profile shows that most of his posts have appeared in the hot-air forum, hard luck hoping.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 09 Nov 2011 10:43

chetak wrote: The issue here is very simple. The demographic and social structures of Ramnad, Tuticorin, Kanyakumari and Tirunelveli districts have already changed considerably, and christianity has become second largest religion in the state.

Kanyakumari was a part of the Travancore kingdom and made its way to the newly created Madras state in the 1956 reorganization of states as it was majority Tam speakers and because Madras insisted so and because CPI in Kerala was not too keen on a fistfight on this matter. There has always been much of Kerala Catholic/Syriac influence in Kanni than the other 3 districts you talk about. Nagercoil was almost always a symbol of == between Hinduism, Islam and Christianity. Even in MGR/DMK propaganda days, this was like a clarion call for the Tamils to rise above religion which is pretty much the modus operandi these days too. The LTTE were the first Tamil group to piss into the wind of Tamil speaking Muslims and the rift is still widely open. Much had to do with internal SL politics that cant be explained esp to people who are not keen on understanding the politics of Saiva Siddhanta and get too used to the revisionism of the 21st century.

Even still, religious conversion in Kanni as well as Ramanathapuram, Thoothukudi and Tirunelveli have been happening wholesale across caste lines and across clan lines over the last 20-30 years. As Theo pointed elsewhere, conversion to Islam in Ramanathapuram goes under the radar far more than conversion to Christianity. Search for Abhiramipuram incident on ggle if you want. Given that you have your opinions on these matters that are so idiotic, I doubt you will.

If you are unable to see the connections and understand the dynamics currently playing out then it is suggested that you look again after removing the filthy prism of caste which seems to be of such vital importance to you but matters not one whit to others.

India may be a glorified heaven for you, but if you go to the villages of South Tamil Nadu, you will get casteist divides, wholesale. Whether you choose to accept the fact that what happens in the South districts are mostly largely correlated with how/what the lower castes with the politico-economically/ritually emancipated or not is left to you. But dont come across here preaching as if your version of the truth is agmark gold. I still am looking for people who have these strong hypotheses on directly connecting EJ cash/FCRA cash into Madras to conversions in the South districts. I did nt see any direct evidences, but I have seen a buncha claims without proof. I am waiting for all the truth-distributors to provide education, but get propaganda instead.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 09 Nov 2011 12:13

Stan_Savljevic wrote:
chetak wrote: The issue here is very simple. The demographic and social structures of Ramnad, Tuticorin, Kanyakumari and Tirunelveli districts have already changed considerably, and christianity has become second largest religion in the state.
Kanyakumari was a part of the Travancore kingdom and made its way to the newly created Madras state in the 1956 reorganization of states as it was majority Tam speakers and because Madras insisted so and because CPI in Kerala was not too keen on a fistfight on this matter. There has always been much of Kerala Catholic/Syriac influence in Kanni than the other 3 districts you talk about. Nagercoil was almost always a symbol of == between Hinduism, Islam and Christianity. Even in MGR/DMK propaganda days, this was like a clarion call for the Tamils to rise above religion which is pretty much the modus operandi these days too. The LTTE were the first Tamil group to piss into the wind of Tamil speaking Muslims and the rift is still widely open. Much had to do with internal SL politics that cant be explained esp to people who are not keen on understanding the politics of Saiva Siddhanta and get too used to the revisionism of the 21st century.

Even still, religious conversion in Kanni as well as Ramanathapuram, Thoothukudi and Tirunelveli have been happening wholesale across caste lines and across clan lines over the last 20-30 years. As Theo pointed elsewhere, conversion to Islam in Ramanathapuram goes under the radar far more than conversion to Christianity. Search for Abhiramipuram incident on ggle if you want. Given that you have your opinions on these matters that are so idiotic, I doubt you will.
If you are unable to see the connections and understand the dynamics currently playing out then it is suggested that you look again after removing the filthy prism of caste which seems to be of such vital importance to you but matters not one whit to others.
India may be a glorified heaven for you, but if you go to the villages of South Tamil Nadu, you will get casteist divides, wholesale. Whether you choose to accept the fact that what happens in the South districts are mostly largely correlated with how/what the lower castes with the politico-economically/ritually emancipated or not is left to you. But dont come across here preaching as if your version of the truth is agmark gold. I still am looking for people who have these strong hypotheses on directly connecting EJ cash/FCRA cash into Madras to conversions in the South districts. I did nt see any direct evidences, but I have seen a buncha claims without proof. I am waiting for all the truth-distributors to provide education, but get propaganda instead.

These gentlemen do not provide convinient receipts to be paraded just for you and they blatantly lie when confronted because they know what they are doing is wrong. Deceit and cunning stealth are their stock in trade as seen from their historical entry into the sub continient.

agmark gold is what we see in front of our eyes and see the reality of demographic changes occuring. Asking for proof here is like the pakis asking us for proof for the mumbai attacks.

This is usually how things play out, -- strawmen and victimhood.

[/quote]
I still am looking for people who have these strong hypotheses on directly connecting EJ cash/FCRA cash into Madras to conversions in the South districts. I did nt see any direct evidences, but I have seen a buncha claims without proof. I am waiting for all the truth-distributors to provide education, but get propaganda instead.
[/quote]

In the meanwhile, good luck with your search. I am sure you may eventually succeed sometime.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 09 Nov 2011 12:30

Yes, I do know that you went, did a CA and documented all the receipts while I keep searching still.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 09 Nov 2011 12:55

Stan_Savljevic wrote:Yes, I do know that you went, did a CA and documented all the receipts while I keep searching still.

Why do poor CA's get involved in everything??