Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 2011

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Oct 2011 06:49

shyamd wrote:^^ India didn't play its cards right. We should have kicked up a bigger fuss over DCH and exposed US duplicity. We still havent mastered the media game and even now we are doing a poor job of it.
Army wanted to put pressure on Pak, conducted a press session showing all the bases that TSP has across the border. Net result? It made some headlines and forgotten in a day, that to only Indian. So in the end no one cared.

You need media footsoldiers. I learnt that from watching Bahrain. Believe me individuals like us on BRF CAN make a difference. I've seen it with my own eyes.

If India really wants to be effective, it needs to devise a media strategy. Are there media attaches in London DC Atlanta Doha??

You think so. US duplicity has been exposed to those who needed it: Internet generation Indians. You need to learn to watch the idea of image

Message is only one level. The media soldiers can deliver messages.

Its crafted towards an image.
The message
- reinforces the image or
- bounces of the image or
- shatters it.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Oct 2011 07:21

saip wrote:After cancelling so many trains, have the pakis starting cancelling PIA flights too?
Nine PIA aircraft grounded because of spares shortage
Link

Do they really have clamied foreign currency reserves or numbers are Pakistanically pulled out of Musharraf by GOPE?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Oct 2011 07:43

IMF sees bleak future for Pakistan and several other states

WASHINGTON: The International Monetary Fund expects Pakistan’s 2011-12 fiscal deficit to widen to 6.5 per cent of gross domestic product, says a report released on Wednesday. The IMF Outlook for the Middle East, North Africa, Afghanistan, and Pakistan (MENAP) also forecasts GDP growth of 2.6 per cent for Pakistan in the fiscal year ending in June 2012, compared with the government’s target of 4.2 per cent.It expects inflation to average 13 per cent compared with the government’s target of 12 per cent.Pakistan’s fiscal deficit was 5.9 per cent in 2010-11 and 1.1 per cent of GDP for three months ending September 30.The country’s current account deficit is shown as 1.7 per cent of GNP. Similarly, imports are estimated at around $46 billion, while the exports trail behind at an estimated $30 billion during 2011-12.
Massive energy subsidies are one of the reasons for the swelling deficit. The IMF warns that the widening deficit could threaten Pakistan’s economic stability and hit its sovereign ratings.The IMF has pushed Pakistan to narrow the gap by eliminating subsidies and increasing its tax-to-GDP ratio, one of the lowest in the world.The report, however, notes that strong exports and remittances from overseas Pakistanis have helped offset capital outflows.The report portrays Pakistan and Libya as among those characterised as having the most difficult business environments in the MENAP region. Business environment indicators help shed light on how well labour markets function, and many MENAP countries, including Pakistan, are at the bottom of global labour market efficiency rankings. Matching labour market efficiency against the share in the population of those under age 14 reveals the gravity of the problem that some MENAP countries face in absorbing new entrants. The challenges are most acute in Pakistan, Egypt, Libya, Mauritania and Syria.The survey identifies floods and violence as among the main reasons for weakening economic activity in Pakistan. Pakistan is also among the countries where real policy rates are close to zero or slightly negative.The IMF predicts that moderating food and fuel prices and continued weak aggregate demand will exercise a dampening effect on inflation in 2011-12 in MENAP countries. But wage increases, recently granted in the public sector in Pakistan and other countries, could filter through to the private sector and result in inflationary pressures as the economy recovers.In some countries, inflation will remain high in 2012 because of domestic factors. The report warns that structural factors and entrenched expectations of high inflation in Pakistan and Egypt will contribute to this pressure

http://www.dawn.com/2011/10/27/imf-sees ... tates.html

Rajdeep · Post by **Rajdeep** » 27 Oct 2011 07:57

Deepening the Pakistan-India divide

Code: Select all

http://tribune.com.pk/story/282732/deepening-the-pakistan-india-divide/

Its all whining about how eye ass eye intimidated him and finally refused to get an indic vijja.
Still as a paki he couldn't refrain from doing an = =

My admission into the building was refused, a violation of my rights as a Pakistani citizen as well as of international law. They won, I lost. They had achieved their goal of keeping a Pakistani from visiting India. The gulf between the countries grew just a tad wider. I do not know how it is from the Indian side. Are the requirements for a visa just as dauntingly obtuse? Do RAW agents harass and insult those Indians applying to the Pakistan High Commission in Delhi for a visa? Let the angry Indian speak up from his side of the wall, as I have from mine.

So do I assume Shiv saar and RAAWjesh_A & other RAA agints ( hey RAAWjdeep too) of lurking around the Paki High commission to cross check all the applicants ??

Rajdeep · Post by **Rajdeep** » 27 Oct 2011 08:02

One more confused paki

Pakistan’s non-‘anti-India’ generation

Code: Select all

http://tribune.com.pk/story/278219/pakistans-non-anti-india-generation/

Pakistan was not formed as an Islamic nation. It was instead envisioned as a state designed to provide economic stability and opportunity to Muslims who, post-Partition, would otherwise have found themselves a minority in a predominantly Hindu nation. A state founded for Muslims is by no means the same as an Islamic state

Firstly, the elite and urban youth of Pakistan today is more global. Whether at home or abroad, Pakistanis are interacting with their Indian counterparts through social networks, educational institutions and initiatives such as Seeds of Peace and Aman ki Asha, that foster better understanding between the future leaders of the two countries. Initiatives such as these are crucial if a combined South Asian identity is to be created based on equality, respect and mutual understanding.

B**ch be trippin !

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 27 Oct 2011 08:03

Indian doctors help Pakistani patients

For Pakistanis with serious health problems, neighboring India offers high success rates. And although many Pakistanis arrive in India fearful — textbooks, officials and the media in both countries spread distrust — they come away from the experience with the realization that they have a lot more in common with Indians than they expected.

habal · Post by **habal** » 27 Oct 2011 08:33

shyamd wrote:^^ India didn't play its cards right. We should have kicked up a bigger fuss over DCH and exposed US duplicity. We still havent mastered the media game and even now we are doing a poor job of it.
Army wanted to put pressure on Pak, conducted a press session showing all the bases that TSP has across the border. Net result? It made some headlines and forgotten in a day, that to only Indian. So in the end no one cared.

You need media footsoldiers. I learnt that from watching Bahrain. Believe me individuals like us on BRF CAN make a difference. I've seen it with my own eyes.

If India really wants to be effective, it needs to devise a media strategy. Are there media attaches in London DC Atlanta Doha??

You are coming on BR and talking about Indian interests. It is a success of India's soft skills & media strategy and you have bought into the mime of India as a bleeding, wounded mother. India can't obviously take an openly antagonistic stand against US, maybe due to variety of reasons and nature of UPA govt which according to some reports consults Washington before appointing or changing PM.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 27 Oct 2011 09:30

Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari greets Hindus on Diwali

OK so which Mullah is going decalare ~~Zardari~~ Gadari for this blasphemony of wishing Kaafirs-i.e Na Pak's while being president of Pak- is -tan

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 27 Oct 2011 09:49

India to Supply 500 MW of power to Lahore?
http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDe ... 859&Cat=13

He said both sides had agreed to trade electricity via Amritsar, which is near the Pakistan border. We are in process of exchanging technical data on this issue in an effort to materialize the deal, he observed.
The Indian delegation will also discuss tariff issue, he said and expected that both technical and tariff-related issues would be resolved in the parlays.
To a question, he said that dealing with India, particularly, on trade related issues, was a sensitive issue. However, as India has surplus electricity near Pakistan border and we are going to give India status of MFN, such issues were expected to be iron out, he said, making it clear that Pakistan’s stance on Kashmir dispute was very much clear and such deal would not affect the just standpoint on it.

aman ki kya paribhasha?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 27 Oct 2011 09:52

WTF, there is not enough power for Indian needs and these buggers are trying to supply power to TSP. The icining on the cake would be if the power was provided @ friendship prices.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Oct 2011 09:58

Rajdeep wrote:Pakistan’s non-‘anti-India’ generation
Pakistan was not formed as an Islamic nation. It was instead envisioned as a state designed to provide economic stability and opportunity to Muslims who, post-Partition, would otherwise have found themselves a minority in a predominantly Hindu nation.

That is the kind of cr@p that the RAPEs peddle but that is taqiyyah. Jinnah promised all sorts of things including a shariat-based state to radical Islamists. There is a large body of evidence to call this bluff.

Jinnah told Islamists like Abu Ala al Mawdudi that he was getting them the land [namely Pakistan] and it was up to them to construct a mosque there. He knew what he was getting into.

Jinnah's letter to the Pir of Manki Sharif promising shariah was produced in the Constituent Assembly in 1949 to push through the Objectives Resolution. It is available in the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan Debates, Volume 5, 1949, Page 46.

While addressing the Karachi Bar Association on 25 January 1948 on the occasion of the Holy Prophet’s birthday, Jinnah said: “Some are misled by propaganda. Islamic principles are as applicable to life as they were 1,300 years ago. The Constitution of Pakistan will be made on the basis of the sharia”.

One of Pakistan’s renowned political scientists, Prof. (Late) Khalid bin Sayeed narrates in his book, ‘Pakistan: The Formative Phase 1957-1948’ Jinnah’s assurances to a group of visiting Islamists thus: “…Constituent Assembly…will be predominantly Muslim…and would be able to enact laws for the Muslims not inconsistence with Shariah Laws and the Muslims will no longer be obliged by un-Islamic laws…”

While portraying himself as a secularist and a Constitutionalist, Jinnah nevertheless asked only an Islamic clergy, Maulana Shabbir Ahmad Usmani who had apostatised Shias, to raise the flag of Pakistan on Aug. 14, 1947. Later, Maulana Shabbir Ahmad Usmani, who had apostatized Ahmedis and calling for them to be stoned to death, was made Sheikh-ul-Islam-i-Pakistan. It was Shabbir Usmani who drafted the Objectives Resolution.

In passionate speeches that Jinnah delivered to masses of the new state of Pakistan, he addressed them as ‘Mussalmans’ instead of as ‘Pakistanis’ and used terms like ‘mujahid’, ‘tenets of the Holy Quran’, and referred to Pakistan as a ‘bulwark of Islam’.

On the other hand, the only time he appeared to be secular was a feeble attempt in his August 14, 1947 speech when he said, "You are free . . ." etc. He neither said nor did anything before or after that to discourage establishing an Islamist Pakistani state.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 27 Oct 2011 10:06

^^^^^ what if we win? says it all!

A joke from the nineties suddenly appears to be prescient: Nawaz Sharif was portrayed as something of a simpleton, getting by on the advice of his shrewd father (abba ji). Here is the joke:
Nawaz Sharif: Abba ji, the economy is in terrible shape and nothing is working. What can we do now?
Abba ji: Son, there is only one solution. Start a war with America. They will bomb the country and utterly destroy it. Then they will occupy us and launch a Marshall plan and we will be rebuilt with their money. Look how rich Japan and Germany have become after losing a war to America.
Nawaz Sharif: But abba ji, what if we win?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 27 Oct 2011 10:09

menon s wrote:India to Supply 500 MW of power to Lahore?
http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDe ... 859&Cat=13
He said both sides had agreed to trade electricity via Amritsar, which is near the Pakistan border. We are in process of exchanging technical data on this issue in an effort to materialize the deal, he observed.
The Indian delegation will also discuss tariff issue, he said and expected that both technical and tariff-related issues would be resolved in the parlays.
To a question, he said that dealing with India, particularly, on trade related issues, was a sensitive issue. However, as India has surplus electricity near Pakistan border and we are going to give India status of MFN, such issues were expected to be iron out, he said, making it clear that Pakistan’s stance on Kashmir dispute was very much clear and such deal would not affect the just standpoint on it.
aman ki kya paribhasha?

I hope this is Paki rubbish and not true.

At a time when much of this nation faces power cuts and factories using their captive power due to shortage, it would be nothing short of criminal to export power to a nation threatening Nukes daily and sending terrorists across.

If Pakis really have a shortage of power. Power should be cut for all military installations and used for better purposes.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 27 Oct 2011 10:10

http://asiancorrespondent.com/67771/pak ... cha-ching/

First, a widely cited paper by Kuziemko and Werker, on what Security Council membership does insofar as getting money from the U.S. is concerned:

Ten of the 15 seats on the U.N. Security Council are held by rotating members serving two-year terms. We find that a country’s U.S. aid increases by 59 percent and its U.N. aid by 8 percent when it rotates onto the council. This effect increases during years in which key diplomatic events take place (when members’ votes should be especially valuable), and the timing of the effect closely tracks a country’s election to, and exit from, the council.

Likewise with IMF.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 27 Oct 2011 10:21

A_Gupta wrote:http://asiancorrespondent.com/67771/pak ... cha-ching/
First, a widely cited paper by Kuziemko and Werker, on what Security Council membership does insofar as getting money from the U.S. is concerned:

Ten of the 15 seats on the U.N. Security Council are held by rotating members serving two-year terms. We find that a country’s U.S. aid increases by 59 percent and its U.N. aid by 8 percent when it rotates onto the council. This effect increases during years in which key diplomatic events take place (when members’ votes should be especially valuable), and the timing of the effect closely tracks a country’s election to, and exit from, the council.
Likewise with IMF.

Didn't Pakis hold a non permanent seat during the Musharaf years when their economy boomed?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Oct 2011 10:34

Pratyush wrote:WTF, there is not enough power for Indian needs and these buggers are trying to supply power to TSP.

This is what is called 'going more than half the distance'. As a bigger brother, India has to be generous even if it has to suffer in the process. But, who knows, there could be a chanakianness in this too. This lending of power gives us a leverage. We can threaten to turn off the tap any time and bring them to their knees so that Pakistan would not mount another terror attack on us.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 27 Oct 2011 10:35

SSridhar wrote:
Pratyush wrote:WTF, there is not enough power for Indian needs and these buggers are trying to supply power to TSP.
This is what is called 'going more than half the distance'. As a bigger brother, India has to be generous even if it has to suffer in the process. But, who knows, there could be a chanakianness in this too. This lending of power gives us a leverage. We can threaten to turn off the tap any time and bring them to their knees.

Let us not kid ourselves and lest fall for our own trick.

partha · Post by **partha** » 27 Oct 2011 10:43

http://tribune.com.pk/story/282732/deep ... ia-divide/

Why the special treatment for Pakistanis? The Indian establishment says it fears terrorism. But while reasonable caution is understandable, one could have hoped for a sense of proportion and a more reasoned approach. The overwhelming majority of Pakistanis who apply are the aged and the infirm, professors and doctors, businessmen and professionals, and the occasional tourist.

Armed terrorists from Pakistan have indeed crossed borders. But they have gone by boat, crawled under fences and climbed difficult mountains

hmm..Because they cannot get visas easily?

To penetrate airports or checkpoints, and cross multiple hurdles, is not the terrorist route

Surely, the good professor is not aware of 9/11 attacks.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Oct 2011 10:49

AfPak Impasse - Edit in DT

Just a couple of days before the arrival of the delegation, General Kayani had signalled Pakistan’s determination to not root out the Haqqanis from their havens in North Waziristan — with or without US aid. The army chief, amongst many others, had quite accurately read the US’s increasing helplessness and desperation to exit from Afghanistan, and dug in his heels. His gamble in rejecting the carrot as insufficient (we don’t need the aid), and the stick as a bluff (they will think 10 times), paid off — and the US was forced to retreat. The US seems to have finally accepted the futility of endeavours to wean Pakistan away from nurturing militant assets. The delegation made a grand bow to Pakistan’s ‘strategic depth’ doctrine — more, obviously, out of a lack of alternatives and increasing war weariness than anything else. In the presence of complete unwillingness on Pakistan’s part to part ways with its ‘assets’, the US has now decided to pressurise Pakistan to help bring the militants, notably the Haqqani network, to the negotiation table. Pakistan has long been angling for such an outcome. Perhaps the point was finally driven home to the US after former President Burhanuddin Rabbani’s assassination, and President Karzai’s acidic remark thereafter: that it was delusive to try and talk to the Taliban, Pakistan being the real ‘actor’ to be negotiated with. Pakistan’s establishment therefore appears to have won the long fought for prize.

They {the Taliban} are also confident of Rawalpindi’s (Islamabad being irrelevant to this conversation) support to once again fight their way to Kabul post-2014, and overthrow the Karzai government.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 27 Oct 2011 11:00

As Nawaz Sharif Plans to dethrone PP regime, after taking classes from Erdogan on how to tame the military? new charges of Nawaz Sharifs own corruption opens up. It is the sub continental malaise of making black money, and then laundering it white. Here is a BBC report.

[youtube]v=_wXCpQYNg2s[/youtube]

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Oct 2011 11:07

Rajdeep wrote: B**ch be trippin !

This comment really cracks me up. No comment could be more appropriate for that farticle!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Oct 2011 11:33

We have been talking here of dysfunctional state of TSP and multiple power centres. The Chief Justice of Pakistan is one of the power centres.
CJP summons the Chairman of Pakistan Railways over worsening situation - DT

Chief Justice of Pakistan Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, while taking suo motu notice over the worsening situation of Pakistan Railways (PR), has summoned Chairman Railways and Attorney General for Pakistan (AGP) on October 28 (Friday).

There seems to be even a talk of closing down PR.

It has been learnt that total amount of pensions of Pakistan Railways’ employees is worth Rs 800 millions. According to a source from railways, if government close down the department, they had to pay Rs 3 billion as a regular debt but if the government could provide the department Rs 4 billions, not only the department will run smoothly but also people will be able to enjoy an easy and affordable transportation.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Oct 2011 11:58

ISI may act if Afghanistan gets too close to India: Musharraf

"Now, India is trying to create anti-Pakistan Afghanistan. This is most unfortunate, and I am not saying this because I have some (Indo-centric) - and I'm anti-India. I know this through intelligence; I know this to be a fact," he said.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 27 Oct 2011 12:01

ISI may act if Afghanistan gets too close to India: Musharraf

"Now, India is trying to create anti-Pakistan Afghanistan. This is most unfortunate, and I am not saying this because I have some (Indo-centric) - and I'm anti-India. I know this through intelligence; I know this to be a fact," he said.

Go ahead! knock yourself out! We know all your tactical brilliance and downhill skiing. You are a coward and you piss at the first sight of an Indian soldier every day of the week. Why dont you take a break once and be a Man! Come down with you commando unit and cross the border.But wear a diaper while you are at it.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 27 Oct 2011 12:26

ramana wrote:
You think so. US duplicity has been exposed to those who needed it: Internet generation Indians. You need to learn to watch the idea of image

Message is only one level. The media soldiers can deliver messages.

Its crafted towards an image.
The message
- reinforces the image or
- bounces of the image or
- shatters it.

Sir, it needs a consistent effort and people need to be reminded.
I think its more about letting the people know from the ground level, educating think tanks etc.

Look both of usknow the US has all the evidence they need to prosecute and hit pak.
But what I am saying is, you need more than just lobbyiists. Thsere should be media footsoldiers who speak about India related news on the bbc/cnn etc.
Public opinion should be on india's side. Remember the days of 2002 riots, the western press had a field day on reporting attrocites.
It is at these times you need medIa soldiers to be talking about/exposing the propaganda and speaking about indian interests.
I think this is beyond message delivery.

There are so many people who think no muslim supports modi. Muslims are poorly ttreated in india. They have no clue about Kashmir.
Its only after telling them about Hajj subsidies, showing comments made by imams about modi etc that people slowly understand that india isn't that bad.

During the Bahrain crisis, they were soo close to losin everything, EU and US were tacitly supporting the protestors. It was only after a lot of these media footsolders went on bbc/cnn exposing the propaganda that the war was slowly shifting.
Of course, it was ultimately a diplomatic move and KSA movement of troops that slowed the protest movement down.
But these media soldiers played a major role, even now, they are kicking up a fuss over a female poet. Via the media slowly people are realising that the protestors don't want democracy...

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 27 Oct 2011 14:03

Altair wrote:ISI may act if Afghanistan gets too close to India: Musharraf
"Now, India is trying to create anti-Pakistan Afghanistan. This is most unfortunate, and I am not saying this because I have some (Indo-centric) - and I'm anti-India. I know this through intelligence; I know this to be a fact," he said.
Go ahead! knock yourself out! We know all your tactical brilliance and downhill skiing. You are a coward and you piss at the first sight of an Indian soldier every day of the week. Why dont you take a break once and be a Man! Come down with you commando unit and cross the border.But wear a diaper while you are at it.

It is exactly ISI actions that have brought India and Afghanistan closer together! He has got it wrong with cause and effect!

If India and Afghanistan are closer today, Pakistanis have only their ISI to thank for it, the have only ISI's overt and covert wars against Pakistan's neighbors to thank for it!

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 27 Oct 2011 15:37

habal wrote: You are coming on BR and talking about Indian interests. It is a success of India's soft skills & media strategy and you have bought into the mime of India as a bleeding, wounded mother. India can't obviously take an openly antagonistic stand against US, maybe due to variety of reasons and nature of UPA govt which according to some reports consults Washington before appointing or changing PM.

Not really. I am saying that at times where we are under attack - like Guj 2002, DCH. We should be out there expressing our views on bbc/cnn and make sure our voice is heard - the voice of the majority. Ask yourself why Israel invests so much in PR, getting defence officials to come visit israel on free junkets to meet think tanks/israeli officials etc. You know the main aim of their Atlanta consulate is purely for CNN apparently.

With regards to the US, of course we want other things from the US like the nuke deal, trade deals etc so we arent going to create a massive ruckus over DCH, but it was up to us to get the message across to the people and when there is a need for it such as when we are under an immense media onslaught, we need to get our voices heard and that will make a big difference on policy makers and the people. Or if you prefer people like Christine Fair and half brights to steal the lime light and get pro pak stuff on air, while we complain on BR.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 27 Oct 2011 15:39

pgbhat wrote:
shyamd wrote: You need media footsoldiers.
The way pacquis dictate what headlines appear in the aftermath of an event is impressive.

Yes, they seem to do a good job, they have loads of foot soldiers to do the job as well - even americans and brits.

Rajdeep · Post by **Rajdeep** » 27 Oct 2011 16:12

Just watched the BBC2 docu series Secret Pakistan's first episode.
Nothing new for BRFites , but hope this helps create a rational image in aam briton's mind about their paki nationals.

It documents all the duplicity on paki part one by one , including the kunduz airlift , the first attempt of getting OBL at Tora Bora.
The words describing the deceit from poaks and the intercutting visuals of mango abduls , ayeshas and the various paki cities are an excellent example of vilifying the common people of that country.

Am I reading too much when I say that they are creating an image in the common brits mind that it would be justified to attack paapistan next ?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 27 Oct 2011 16:37

rajdeep - your assessment is correct
if you watch british tv, you will have seen how frequently pakistan now crops up in connection with terror and international intrigue in programmes like spooks and project dawn...

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 27 Oct 2011 16:47

Rajdeep wrote:
Am I reading too much when I say that they are creating an image in the common brits mind that it would be justified to attack paapistan next ?

First off, is it possible to download the clips? I went to Beeb site, but it said UK residents only.

But, yes, you are reading too much. Not to rehash what me and others have been saying a zillion times before, but all this outrage against TSP disappears because TSP has close military, intelligence, and other elite-to-elite ties with their western counterparts. And in these dealings, TSP emphasize with defeaning repetition and laser-like focus and determination, that all their actions are driven by India and India alone. And couple this with real guboing from time to time, along with the west's inherent contempt for India, any justification to take on TSP dissipates. Hence this narrative that has been etched in stone, namely, the rapist TSP needs to be appeased so he doesn't have the desire to rape India.This is the general gro-political reality. Couple that with the western economic woes, there is not a chance in thin air to get into another military conflict, especially when India is not of that great a strategic value (like say Iraq or Libya) for the west to bring TSP to justice; rather, demanding a pliant India to sacrifice itself to TSP is the path of least resistance.

To see a manifestation of the above geo-political reality, look at the audacity with which Mush can openly declare that ISI will "act" if India does the right thing in Afghanistan because even that provokes TSP's desire to rape. And neither the west nor their "useful idiots" in Delhi challenge that hideous terrorist threat that Mush openly declares; the latter are more busy warning Sri Sri Ravishankar to desist from association with "Hindu terrorists"

.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Oct 2011 17:20

SSridhar can you comment on this question that one school of thought avers that even the Kashmir war of Oct 1947 and the use of tribals / 'irregulars' by the Pak fauj was to divert attention from the Af-Pak 'border'......et al......hence Kashmir is not the ' core '......et al....

have been looking for citations / alternate views / on this formulation.......preferably from within Pakistan...academics / analysts....or other experts......and any thoughts on the accuracy of this analysis....

ramana

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 27 Oct 2011 17:58

If Pak was created not as an anti-Indian entity,then why did the Pakis during Jinnah's era,launch that perverse atttempt tp grab J&K immediatekly after Partition,using so-called "tribals',in fact regular Paki troops? It was also tragic that Pandit Nehru's belief/trust in the western powers saw him take the J&K problem to the UN.He later wrote to his sister in deepre morse,Mrs.Pandit that he was betrayed by them.Gen.Musha-rat,the "bandicoot",later used the same trick to try and wrest the Kargil heights from us.

Therefore,even if the younger generation of Pakis have seen throiugh their political and uniformed tribes' duplicity and esire to remain in perpetual control of the state,and are less anti-Indian than the previous generation,there is little that they can do until genuine democracy is restored and a revolution in land reform occurs in Pak.To have the nation's land in the control of feudal aristos,like their current fashion-concious FM who sports a handbag worth lakhs while her peasants starve,has resulted in the current Islamic extremism in Pak and the growth of the beardies.This is Pak's answer to the French Revolution,an Islamic one threatening the state,barely kept in check by a declining army,rotten at the core and part of it in support of the very same extremism that it pretends to fight.

PS:Ramanna,the answer to your Q will be found in Whitehall's secret archives.The role of the British officers left behind in the Indian sub-continent,especially on the Paki side,has been extremely suspicious and over the years a trickle of info has come out that spurring the Paki ambitions on were the British ,who wanted a pliant martial state at this critical geo-strategic location from which it could dominate Central Asia,"stopping the Reds" and the Chinese too from obtaining the warm water ports of the Arabian Sea and IOR.Diego Garcia to be run by the USN was also part of this grand strategy.During the Cold War,part of the plan was to get the Islamic Republics of the USSR to revolt,using a VOA station in Sri Lanka to broadcast anti-Soviet and pro-Islamic propaganda to incite the Central Asian Muslim peoples to revolt.Covert military/terror ops allegedly both by the CIA and British in Afghanistan saw that country seek Soviet assistance and when the situ took a turn for the worse,invited the Soviets in,which was a godsend to the Pakis.The game goes on and on....!

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 27 Oct 2011 18:03

From AfPak Daily brief via email

A suspected U.S. drone strike killed five senior militants allegedly affiliated with the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) commander Maulvi Nazir on Thursday, including Nazir's deputy commander Khan Mohammad and younger brother Hazrat Omar (AP, Reuters, AFP, AJE, Dawn). The unmanned aircraft reportedly targeted the vehicle the militants were driving in Azam Warsak, a village in Pakistan's tribal region of South Waziristan (BBC, CNN)

And this too. The Koward of Kargil, Moosh the toosh bleating as usual.

The first installment in a BBC Two documentary, "Secret Pakistan," broadcast Wednesday night features interviews with alleged mid-level Afghan Taliban commanders, who claim that Pakistan's intelligence agency, the ISI, provides weapons and training to Taliban fighters (BBC, Reuters, ET). One commander tells his interviewer "Because Obama put more troops into Afghanistan and increased operations here, so Pakistan's support for us increased as well." Former Pakistani president Pervez Musharraf said Wednesday in a visit to Washington D.C. that Afghanistan "always has been anti-Pakistan" and people "should not begrudge if Pakistan orders ISI to take counter-measures to protect its own interests" (AFP).

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 27 Oct 2011 18:12

Pakistan military denies BBC report on Taliban links

Shaashtanga · Post by **Shaashtanga** » 27 Oct 2011 18:16

CRamS wrote:
Rajdeep wrote:
Am I reading too much when I say that they are creating an image in the common brits mind that it would be justified to attack paapistan next ?
First off, is it possible to download the clips? I went to Beeb site, but it said UK residents only.

But, yes, you are reading too much. Not to rehash what me and others have been saying a zillion times before, but all this outrage against TSP disappears because TSP has close military, intelligence, and other elite-to-elite ties with their western counterparts. And in these dealings, TSP emphasize with defeaning repetition and laser-like focus and determination, that all their actions are driven by India and India alone. And couple this with real guboing from time to time, along with the west's inherent contempt for India, any justification to take on TSP dissipates. Hence this narrative that has been etched in stone, namely, the rapist TSP needs to be appeased so he doesn't have the desire to rape India.This is the general gro-political reality. Couple that with the western economic woes, there is not a chance in thin air to get into another military conflict, especially when India is not of that great a strategic value (like say Iraq or Libya) for the west to bring TSP to justice; rather, demanding a pliant India to sacrifice itself to TSP is the path of least resistance.

To see a manifestation of the above geo-political reality, look at the audacity with which Mush can openly declare that ISI will "act" if India does the right thing in Afghanistan because even that provokes TSP's desire to rape. And neither the west nor their "useful idiots" in Delhi challenge that hideous terrorist threat that Mush openly declares; the latter are more busy warning Sri Sri Ravishankar to desist from association with "Hindu terrorists" .

Here you go -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YFbnpyiceY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDuJJ5T5bTY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-Hqx1T8zC0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuVON8uSkYs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MndWdiyf2k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-5UNM

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 27 Oct 2011 18:18

Dilbu wrote:Pakistan military denies BBC report on Taliban links

^^^ Bruce Riedel playing Sherlock Holmes and connecting the dots together. Just before Clinton's meeting with the senate.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 27 Oct 2011 18:49

rajanb wrote:
Dilbu wrote:Pakistan military denies BBC report on Taliban links
^^^ Bruce Riedel playing Sherlock Holmes and connecting the dots together. Just before Clinton's meeting with the senate.

Mush does it again! "500% sure". I am at a loss here. What is the difference between 200% sure,400% sure and 500% sure?

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 27 Oct 2011 19:10

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-15479758

The Taliban in Afghanistan have issued an unprecedented condolence statement on the death of a top right-wing Pakistani politician.

Maulana Abdul Ghani died in a car crash on 26 October in the southern Pakistani province of Balochistan.

It is the first time that the Taliban have publicly admitted receiving help from members of Pakistan's ruling establishment.

Maulana Ghani's JUI-F political party has close links to Pakistan's military.

It was part of the governing coalition until earlier this year.

Pakistan's leadership has always denied any links to the Taliban.

But a Taliban spokesman told the BBC in a statement that Maulana Ghani - a deputy leader of the JUI-F - was a "martyr for the cause of jihad" - and it would be difficult to replace him.

The former parliamentarian was laid to rest on Wednesday in his native town of Chaman in Balochistan.

Eyewitnesses told the BBC the Taliban's top leadership was in attendance - along with hundreds of local citizens and Taliban foot soldiers.

Later - without giving details - a Taliban spokesman said that Maulana Ghani had shown what he called great courage in supporting the movement after the US-led invasion of Afghanistan in 2001.

He added that the maulana's services and commitment for the cause of jihad would never be forgotten.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 27 Oct 2011 19:14

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-15474100

A US drone strike in north-west Pakistan has killed two top commanders of one of Pakistan's most influential Taliban groups, officials say.

They say that among the four people killed is the brother of top Taliban leader Maulvi Nazir.

Maulvi Nazir's Taliban faction is based in Pakistan's South Waziristan tribal region where the drone attack on Thursday took place.

His forces are blamed for attacks on Nato troops in nearby Afghanistan.

The militants were killed when four missiles were fired at a pick-up truck they were driving in Azam Warsak, 20km (13 miles) west of Wana, the main town in South Waziristan.

Correspondents say that the strike is a sign that US intelligence has penetrated the close family circle of Maulvi Nazir.

'Central role'
Officials say that local Taliban militants immediately cordoned off the area and closed the road in the aftermath of the attack.

The BBC's M Ilyas Khan in Islamabad says that the Wana region is controlled by militants loyal to Maulvi Nazir.

Officials say one of his top commanders, Khan Mohammad, was also killed in Thursday's strike, as was his brother, Hazrat Omar.

Our correspondent says that Maulvi Nazir is considered close to the Pakistani military and has a peace agreement with them.

Although drone strikes in South Waziristan are not unusual, our correspondent says, this is the most deadly attack yet against the Maulvi Nazir group.