Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 2011

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rajanb
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by rajanb »

So the Paki browned pants are in denial mode. What I saw in the BBC and the NewsX documentary was a history lesson, depicting the truth, and awesomely well produced. A documentary which will reverberate through the western world.

And well timed. Clinton is going to address a different constituency. A senate committee. And all this augurs well because she has to address that constituency. Let us see how honest she is in addressing the Pakistani treachery.

The taking out of the TTP senior leaders in a drone strike may also be a message to the Pakistani people that the US aren't playing favourites by just targeting the Haqqanis and that "All terrorists who harm innocent people...." are also snakes in the backyard.

I have always felt that the State Department has been the stumbling block against being brutal with accusing the Pakis of their perfidy and seeking retribution. Let us not forget that the US has lost boots on the ground because of the duplicity of Pakis. And those very same losses could also mean that their buddies and families would be happy to see the US avenge them. After all, they also count for votes. So as some say, the US is "war weary" may not be totally true.

Knowing that the US polity consists of various factions, like the State, Defense and the CIA, I wonder whether the timing of this documentary is significant? And whether the CIA, Defense or both had a hand in it?

As Shiv put it, "The hidden war" that the CIA has conducted with significant success maybe the way that the US will ratchet up the Paki khujli.

And for my favourite Paki Mr. Bean Moosh the Toosh he denies everything 500%. The higher the % the greater the lie. The Koward of Kargil.

I love this slow ratcheting up. Denotes a cold fury and revenge! As the tallel than the mountains and deeper than the oceans fliends would say, "A death of a thousand cuts"
Last edited by rajanb on 27 Oct 2011 19:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by saip »

Look at the beggars, trying to be generous. They cant help themselves but they want to pretend to help others.

Gilani offers assistance, relief goods to Turkey

Link
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by ramana »

rajanb, There were TSP complaints that TTP was getting sanctuary in Afghanistan. This strike belies that.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by rajanb »

ramana wrote:rajanb, There were TSP complaints that TTP was getting sanctuary in Afghanistan. This strike belies that.
Thanks Ramanji. I missed that, because I am gleefully looking forward to the thousand cuts. :lol:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by Lalmohan »

rajanb - agreed, the US is not war weary. this is not vietnam. americans were attacked in their homeland - by jingo they are going to avenge themselves
paquis are making a big mistake to think that the eagle will really scurry off
if nothing, their egos will not let them repeat the mistakes of the bear
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by R Vaidya »

The cleric who performed last rites for Tasser and ran away from pak is Berelvi sect and the judge who convicted the assasin has to flee to saudi is Shia sect.Am I reading too much into these?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by rajanb »

Lalmohan wrote:rajanb - agreed, the US is not war weary. this is not vietnam. americans were attacked in their homeland - by jingo they are going to avenge themselves
paquis are making a big mistake to think that the eagle will really scurry off
if nothing, their egos will not let them repeat the mistakes of the bear
Yes Lalmohanji.

For years the intel we have been sharing with the US has been treated with a jaundiced eye. The US believeing that our intel was coloured and biased and was a means of us getting back at the Pakis. That surely will change with the rather belated recognition, after a decade, that the Pakis have lied. Including about Kashmir and India.

I wonder whether the latest incidents will have a positive bearing to supporting the case in NY courts about the Paki perfidy re: 26/11
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by rajanb »

saip wrote:Look at the beggars, trying to be generous. They cant help themselves but they want to pretend to help others.

Gilani offers assistance, relief goods to Turkey

Link
To me a welcome sign of desperation by the Pakis. They are trying to garner friends when their perfidy is being unravelled, peel by onion peel. And how will those suffering from the floods in Pak feel?

Do not mistake it for generosity. Decades of purification have deprived those who decide state policy of any form of humanity.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by rajanb »

Posted in full: From Dawn
Pakistan allows insurgent fire on US troops: general


AFP
(18 minutes ago) Today

WASHINGTON: Pakistani forces are allowing insurgents to launch rocket and mortar attacks on US troops across the border in Afghanistan and may be collaborating with the militants, a US general said Thursday.

“In some locations from time to time you will see what just appears to us to be a collaboration… or at a minimum a looking the other way when insurgents conducted rocket or mortar fire in what we believe to be (within) visual sight of one of their (Pakistan military) posts,” said Lieutenant General Curtis Scaparrotti, deputy commander of the Nato-led force in Afghanistan.

Soldiers from Pakistan’s Frontier Corps, who are locally recruited and not as highly trained as regular army units, man the border posts, he told reporters via video link.

The general also said cross-border attacks have increased dramatically in eastern Paktika province in recent months, with rocket and other fire four times higher than in previous years.

The rocket fire has coincided with a virtual breakdown in communications between US and Pakistani officers along the border since May, when American special operations forces killed Al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden at his compound in Pakistan in a unilateral raid that angered Islamabad, he said.
What we always suspected. But the media's timing is welcome!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by Prem »

Indian doctors help Pakistani patients
Hundreds of Pakistanis travel to more medically advanced India each year to seek help. Many expect hostility in a nuclear rival of Pakistan, but they find compassion instead.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 7044.story
Reporting from Lahore, Pakistan— Safwan Sarfraz waved a toy gun menacingly at his younger brother as they squabbled over a bottle of soda, hardly surprising behavior for a 4-year-old. What's more unusual was the pacemaker and rebuilt heart chamber beneath a large bandage on his small chest.Safwan is alive thanks to rare cooperation between uneasy nuclear neighbors India and Pakistan that sees several hundred Pakistanis a year traveling to India on health visas, most for heart operations.For Pakistanis with serious health problems, neighboring India offers high success rates. And although many Pakistanis arrive in India fearful — textbooks, officials and the media in both countries spread distrust — they come away from the experience with the realization that they have a lot more in common with Indians than they expected.
"I thought they'd be mean to us, think we were the enemy," Sarfraz said. "But we met many nice people who even bought food for us. You don't behave like that if you harbor hate in your heart."Friends and relatives back home can be even warier, sometimes expressing concern before a heart transplant that their loved ones will get an Indian heart."How ridiculous! A heart is a heart no matter where it comes from," countered Nida Rashid, a British-educated journalist from Lahore whose aunt recently had a liver transplant. "But if you're educated in Pakistani schools, taught to hate anything India in the textbooks, you have this sort of thinking. It's high time people realize that India has a lot to offer and they should make use of it."On May 20 at New Delhi's Fortis Hospital, Dr. Rajesh Sharma operated on Safwan for 11 hours, then three more hours a few days later, closing a hole in Safwan's heart, expanding his right chamber and inserting artificial tubing and a pacemaker."Dr. Sharma has gifted hands, a blessed soul and he's a very nice person," Sarfraz said.Sharma, who performs about 300 heart operations annually on Pakistanis in India, said he feels a special connection with these patients. His parents were born in what is now Pakistan before moving to India in 1947 as the wrenching partition divided the two countries.The cases also tend to be challenging, and therefore more interesting, he said, and Pakistani patients are generally very trusting."They have real faith, different from us," he Said. "Maybe it's because they've been knocked down so much, which makes it easier, and you can do a better job."
"
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by nachiket »

Another nugget from the above report
Congenital heart problems are relatively common in Pakistan, given frequent marriage between first cousins, contributing to birth defects, Sharma said a few weeks later in his small office at the hospital.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by svinayak »

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/USPa ... elations17

Please see this video where Musharraf says ISI will go after India.

Former Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf spoke about U.S.-Pakistan relations. In his remarks he stated that American actions prior to September 11, 2011, were a "period of disaster" for his country, claiming the U.S. "abandoned" Pakistan and Afghanistan, which led to the rise of al-Qaida and the Taliban in the region. He responded to questions from the audience.
1 hour, 17 minutes | 31 Views
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by vijayk »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 509984.cms
Pervez Musharraf concedes he has 'Indian blood', hence for peace with India
The embarrassing moment for Musharraf, who has a hard-nosed approach to India, came during a talk at the Carnegie Endowment on Wednesday when an audience member reminded him that he was born in India and has Indian blood in him after he (Musharraf) claimed he was "reasonably popular" in India despite his bluntness towards New Delhi, where he was born.
He is popular with SCUM journalists and COMMIE traitors. He thinks he is popular in India
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by svinayak »

Check the images of Mushy from 1999 - 2011
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/pervezmusharraf
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by svinayak »

Pak terror groups oppose MFN status for India
Press Trust Of India
Islamabad, October 27, 2011
http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-new ... 61866.aspx

First Published: 18:42 IST(27/10/2011)

Several banned jihadi groups, including the Lashkar-e-Taiba and Hizb-ul-Mujahideen, today opposed Pakistan's move to grant Most Favoured Nation (MFN) status to India.
Leaders of the groups, including Muttahida Jihad Council chairman Syed Salahuddin, told a gathering of hundreds
of supporters at Aabpara Chowk in Islamabad about their movement to "liberate" Jammu and Kashmir.
"We will continue our struggle on the political, diplomatic and, most important of all, jihadi fronts till the last Indian soldier leaves Kashmir. We will continue till Jammu and Kashmir becomes independent," said Salahuddin, who is also the chief of the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen.

A spokesman who addressed the gathering on behalf of LeT commander Iftikhar Haider said his group would take "revenge" for the killing of Muslims in Gujarat in 2002 and the 2007 bombing of the Samjhauta Express cross-border train. "The relationship between Pakistan and India is one of guns and bullets, not of trade," the LeT spokesman said while opposing the granting of MFN-status to India by Pakistan.

The gathering was held in a market located less than two kilometres from the headquarters of the Inter-Services Intelligence agency in the heart of Islamabad. Jihadi leaders, including Salahuddin and Al Badr Mujahideen leader Bakht Zameen, too opposed Pakistan’s decision in principle to grant MFN-status to India.

Salahuddin claimed bilateral relations could not improve and Pakistan could not confer MFN-status on India as long as Indian troops remained in Jammu and Kashmir. Several leaders of the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen, Harkat-ul-Mujahideen and other groups also addressed the gathering that was organised to mark the "Youm-e-Siah" (Black Day). The day is observed across Pakistan on October 27 every year to protest the entry of Indian troops in Jammu and Kashmir in 1947.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by svinayak »

Image
China Wants Bases an Endless War in Pakistan
By Spencer Ackerman October 26, 2011 | 3:11 pm | Categories: Af/Pak, China
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/10 ... tan-bases/

Washington just got a golden opportunity to end its decade-long excursion into central Asia and deplete the power of its Pacific rival/banker, all in one fell swoop. The Chinese are seeking bases in the tribal regions of Pakistan, precisely where the U.S. fights its drone war.

The plugged-in Asia Times Online reports that China wants to set up military hubs in Khyber-Pukhtunkhwa, formerly known as the Northwest Frontier Province. China’s reasoning will sound familiar to American ears: That’s where anti-Chinese terrorists operate. Khyber-Pukhtunkhwa abuts the restive, non-Han Chinese province of Xinjiang, home to ethnic Uighur separatists. With the People’s Liberation Army getting a foothold in tribal Pakistan, the Chinese reason, it can crush separatism, and make sure that terrorist factions can’t hide out across the border.

This is usually when Pakistan expects the U.S. to freak out over the spread of Chinese power and draw a line in the sand. When the Pakistanis threw a fit over the bin Laden raid, they publicly flirted with letting the Chinese see the wreckage of a secret U.S. stealth helicopter. They hug China close during periodic flare-ups with Washington, pointedly dubbing Beijing an “all-weather friend.”

The Asia Times Online story smells like a calculated Islamabad leak, especially since it comes on the heels of last week’s demand by Secretary of State that Pakistan cut off its terrorist proxies in the Haqqani Network. And since the Pakistanis want China to build a naval base on its territory, the Chinese even have leverage to move into the tribal areas. You can expect some thumbsucking think-tank type to lament the decline of American power any minute now.

But if the Chinese really are headed to tribal Pakistan, then — as Chris Partlow once said to Marlo Stanfield on The Wire — this is one of those good problems.


Fighting for a decade in central Asia has a way of obscuring something basic. The center of that war lies in tribal Pakistan, which is battered by U.S. drone strikes, but the U.S. has fought an exhausting war in the larger area that it’s finding difficult to satisfactorily conclude. That gives the Pakistanis a huge amount of leverage to get U.S. aid — and, accordingly, a disincentive to actually fighting terrorism, lest the aid stop when the mission concludes.

This Central Asian preoccupation — 10 years of war that has cost the U.S. hundreds of billions — has redounded decisively to China’s advantage. The U.S. funded its central Asian wars not buy raising taxes, but by borrowing money from China, and it’s only now turning to the problem of how to reduce its crippling debt. Meanwhile, China, the world’s second largest economy, is ever more assertive in the Pacific, and is modernizing its military with its first stealth jet and anti-ship missile. (Although the U.S. is way more militarily powerful.)

Taken together, all this has U.S. policymakers declaring America’s long excursion in the Mideast and South Asia to be a distraction worth concluding in order to refocus on the vital Asia-Pacific region.

And here come the Chinese, ready to take on two birds with one stone.

Think about it. The Chinese entangle themselves in a region where the U.S. found itself exhausted in an inconclusive effort. Since it’s China’s backyard, the domestic and internal military pressures to keep fighting there will likely be great. China can batter the residual terrorist presence in tribal Pakistan — its brutal Army will kill U.S. enemies as well as its own, if history is any indication — and also experience the pleasures of dealing with Islamabad, selling it weapons, and being responsible for Pakistani security. Surely Beijing will enjoy an intransigent ally that rejects its advice while keeping its money. And if China really wants a larger role in global affairs, tribal Pakistan is the most advantageous place for the U.S. to pass the baton.

And since Pakistan often says it wants the U.S. to leave it alone, let’s see how it enjoys taking yes for an answer, and losing its American aid. The U.S. can still launch drone strikes into Pakistan as insurance — as it keeps for itself drone launchpads like Jalalabad or Kandahar during and after the Afghanistan troop withdrawals. Surely the Chinese will be generous patrons, since they’re rich and they like funding infrastructure.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by svinayak »

No military bases abroad, says China
http://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-news ... says-China
The Nation, Pakistan - ‎20 hours ago‎
BEIJING (APP) - China on Wednesday categorically denied that it had bases abroad. “China has no military bases abroad,” Foreign Ministry Spokeswomen Jiang Yu said in reply to a question the print media report published in Pakistan
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by svinayak »

PM-level talks between India, Pakistan likely in Nov
http://www.livemint.com/2011/10/1921562 ... l?atype=tp

Livemint - ‎Oct 19, 2011‎
The prime ministers of India and Pakistan are likely to meet on the sidelines of the upcoming South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation (Saarc) meeting in the Maldives early next month, providing a fresh impetus to the renewed peace efforts
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by svinayak »

Ourview | A changed constellation
Afghanistan, Bangladesh and Myanmar have exhibited a renewed interest in improving ties with India
http://www.livemint.com/2011/10/1900315 ... t.html?h=B

In the past few months, India has witnessed a remarkable, if somewhat under-appreciated, change in its external constellation. Afghanistan, Bangladesh and Myanmar have exhibited a renewed interest in improving ties with India. Nepal presents another such opportunity.  What has changed? Consider Afghanistan first. The Hamid Karzai government always considered India a “good friend” and Pakistan “a brother”. That kinship has not altered: only the brother has started biting. Soon after a former president, Burhanuddin Rabbani, was assassinated, Karzai’s first visit outside his country was to New Delhi. Defence ties between the two countries, always hostage to Pakistani approval, are no longer a taboo subject.

By Jayachandran/Mint
In Myanmar, a new president with democratic ambitions wants to lean more towards New Delhi and less towards Beijing. His cancellation of a major Chinese hydropower project was a strong signal in this respect. In any “normal” country, the construction of dams is the preserve of hydraulic engineers. But Myanmar’s no ordinary country. An international pariah for long, it has found comfort only in China and, to a limited extent, India. Even trifling decisions had the potential to antagonize its northern neighbour. Yet, the new president, Thein Sein, did that. If he wants closer ties with India, his wish should be reciprocated. This is one opportunity that won’t knock on our door again.
At the moment, these are the only opportunities: These have resulted from third countries “mismanaging” their ties. Real gains will come only when Indian diplomacy and economic help are visible. Here, unfortunately, the record leaves much to be desired. Bangladesh is a good example of how the requests of a friendly government are not acceded to without delays and procrastination, if they are at all. The present government in Dhaka has invested a serious amount of scarce political capital to improve ties with India. That opportunity is slipping away, fast.

This week another hopeful friend, Prime Minister Baburam Bhattarai of Nepal, will be visiting India. Ideally, when he returns to Kathmandu, most items on his list should be ticked “yes”. That will enable him to face his rival Prachanda, who is no friend of India, much better. If we’re ever to prevent Nepal from being lost to China, it is important that Bhattarai’s position be strengthened. Our diplomats have done a fine job in Kathmandu in recent years, it is time those gains were consolidated.

Ensuring better and friendly ties with these countries will give us vital strategic space. In recent years, this has shrunk considerably, making foreign policy more a fire-fighting operation than the deliberative exercise it ought to be.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by svinayak »

Pakistan mapping transit route between South, Central Asia
Pakistan Daily Times - ‎12 minutes ago‎
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2011_pg5_5

The minister said that Pakistan has signed Bilateral Road Transport Agreements with Afghanistan, China, Iran and India under which goods and passenger transport services are being operated.




The minister said the government and the people of Pakistan are determined to transform country into a developed, industrialised, just and knowledge-based economy by using its geo-political location and by enhancing economic partnership particularly in the region.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by svinayak »

COMMENT: The paradoxes of Pak-US relations —Dr Rashid Ahmad Khan
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2011_pg3_6

According to a report, Pakistan has made it clear to the US that Pakistan is ready to facilitate talks with the Taliban but it cannot become a guarantor of the negotiating process

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was recently in Pakistan on her eighth official visit since she joined her office in President Obama’s administration. The tone and tenor of her press talk, statements and comments while interacting with the media, civil society members and parliamentarians clearly showed that the US was keen to retain its relations with Pakistan based on a strategic partnership but on terms that Pakistan was increasingly finding difficult to accept. At their end, Pakistan’s civilian and military leaderships have also acknowledged the country’s need to have a cooperative relationship with the US. What are the American demands? First, dismantle the terrorist infrastructure and eliminate the safe havens of the Haqqani network in North Waziristan (NW), FATA; second, persuade the Haqqani network to begin peace talks with Afghan government. Given the history of the Afghan conflict and Pakistan’s experience with Afghan insurgents, including the Taliban, both these tasks seem presently insurmountable for both Islamabad and Rawalpindi to accomplish.

Let us take the second demand first. There is a popular cliché about the Pathans, which says that it is as difficult for two Pathans to stop fighting as it is easy for them to start it. Following the 9/11 terrorist attacks, the Bush administration tried hard to get the Taliban around to agree to hand over Osama bin Laden, whom the Americans had identified as the principal accused in the Twin Towers terrorist attacks. Pakistan played a key role in these efforts, sending an official delegation to convince Mullah Omar to accede to the American demand. But he refused. Lieutenant General (retd) Mueenuddin Haider, the interior minister in Musharraf’s regime, says that when the Pakistani delegation warned Mullah Omar of a severe American attack, he told the visiting Pakistani delegation, “You people have never won a war and we have never lost a war.” Earlier, Mullah Omar had adamantly defied international pressure, including a personal appeal from the then President Rafiq Ahmad Tarar against his decision to destroy the Buddhas of Bamiyan. Therefore what Pakistan at best can do is only a promise to help arrange direct negotiations between the US and the Taliban, including the Haqqani network. However, it cannot guarantee the success of the negotiation process. According to a report, Pakistan has made it clear to the US that Pakistan is ready to facilitate talks with the Taliban but it cannot become a guarantor of the negotiating process.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by Gerard »

Taliban commanders say Pakistan intelligence helps them
"He (Musharraf) banged the table and looked at President Karzai and said, 'Am I president of a banana republic? If not, then how can you tell me bin Laden is hiding in a settled area of Pakistan'.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by ranjbe »

interesting take on why Kiya nahi will not fight the Taliban any more in the Friday Times:

The ghosts that haunt Kayani
Citing a staggering statistic, Gen Kayani let us into what's really beginning to haunt his institution: That the army has suffered 12,829 casualties since 2001, including 3,097 killed, with what the New York Times reports as an "unusually high ratio of one officer killed for every 16 soldiers since it [the Pakistan army] began fighting the Taliban".

This is critical. Like him or not, agree with him or not, but if you just believe Gen Kayani's math, then it means the Pakistan Army has lost almost 194 officers in this conflict. As the average strength of a Pakistani infantry battalion (primarily the type of unit deployed in forward areas and that most prone to casualties) is about 900 men, with around 10 or so of them being officers, then Kayani's accounting means his army has lost enough enlisted men to completely wipe out more than three entire battalions (that's one brigade) and incapacitate 14 or so battalions (almost 5 brigades). But the real problem is that the army has lost enough officers to decapitate around 20 battalions; a shocking, disturbing statistic, especially for an institution that has been documented to be thoroughly weaved together through fraternal, kinship, tribal and legacy connections, and where the officer calls all the shots - on and off the field.

If they have weren't already been briefed by Munter's defence analysts about this on their trip, then Clinton, Petraeus, Dempsey et al should think hard what they dealing with. Sure, the intransigence to not commit to combat from the Pakistan Army has many 'larger' reasons, but the root cause may well be morale - the toughest factor to quantify for battle - or lack of it.In an elitist army where many officers are related to each other, and where the commander-centric modules of conventional training ensure that units are highly dependent on officers to lead them, it's a safe bet to assume two things: One, that almost all of Pakistan's top brass have lost an officer they know and/or are related to, or work directly with someone in uniform who has. And two, that Pakistan's undertrained and underequipped soldiers are increasingly leaderless in battle.
After due sympathies and respect for such a tremendous loss, it must be stressed that this is the Army's own fault. The policy decision to commit troops in FATA etc has been debated too often, so let it be a forgone conclusion that the Pervez Musharraf/ Ehsan-ul-Haq/ Ashfaq Kayani/ Nadeem Taj/ Shuja Pasha-led GHQ-ISI combine made some questionable strategic and operational decisions in the last decade.

Just focus on what really went wrong in FATA operations for the army: a top-heavy institution that has for decades trained for conventional war with India, expecting its officers to mostly lead all formations - small and large - into battle, and thus (much like it's colonial-era predecessor) heavily invested in the "thinking and doing" capacity of its officers versus just the "doing" potential of its soldiers.

That is where the army's extraordinarily high officer-to-soldier losses have come in. This army was never ready for counterinsurgency and counterterrorism operations before it jumped into them, for deployment in that type of combat requires small, dynamic formations that can think independently and "on their feet". As our enlisted men have always been treated for the initiative-lacking, "Allah-u-Akbar" swearing, soldiers that they essentially are, the need to achieve viable objectives has forced the army to thrust its officers to over-commit in frontline deployments they've never trained for either. As more of these ranks have been killed - over-exposed by 'leading from the front' operations and/or increasingly 'target killed' by selective snipers - internally, for the Army's officer corps, this means more brothers, cousins, nephews and in-laws are also dead.
So, for the Pakistan Army, this war is questionable. Not just strategically. Nor economically. Not even religiously. But more than any other reason, existentially. Thus, the SSG warrior's mural in Cherat lied: He might be ready to give life in battle...But he doesn't really want to fight this war.
http://www.thefridaytimes.com/beta2/tft ... 028&page=4
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by Prem »

Pakistan out of loop on Afghan peace process
LAHORE: Pakistan has not been taken into confidence on the initiation of the reconciliation process in Afghanistan, Major-General Athar Abbas, the director general of the Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR), has said.In an interview with BBC in Rawalpindi, Abbas said that Pakistan had neither been taken into confidence nor the Pakistani government had been informed about the objectives of the reconciliation process.Pakistan can only help in the Afghan reconciliation process when it is taken into confidence, he said.“We have not been informed and not been taken into confidence on a possible roadmap or a practicable shape of the reconciliation process so far,” he said.The army spokesman said that “we have not been informed about who is taking part in the reconciliation process and what are its objectives”. The Afghanistan issue was heading towards a settlement and there was a need to determine the role of every stakeholder in the conflict and how the reconciliation process would be pushed forward and what would be role of Pakistan in this situation, he said, adding that only in that case, Pakistan would be able to decide whether it could persuade one group or the other to take part in the conciliation process. “We cannot guarantee the success of the reconciliation process because none of the groups is in our pocket,” he said.The director general termed a BBC report, alleging that the Pakistan Army and the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) supplied and protected the Afghan Taliban and al Qaeda highly biased and one-sided. “We consider that report highly biased, it is one-sided, it doesn’t have the version of the side which is badly hit or affected by this report,” Major General Athar Abbas said. “So therefore, other than that, it is factually incorrect,” he said.He said that the head of ISI had already said “not a single bullet or financial support” had been given to groups named in the BBC report. Abbas said that about 300 ISI officials have been killed in Pakistani Taliban’s attacks and it was a proof that the ISI did not support militants. He said that the US had been told that the accusation against Pakistan would only benefit terrorists. daily times monitor
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2011_pg1_1
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by shiv »

Last edited by shiv on 28 Oct 2011 08:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by Dipanker »

This is from Yawn, perhaps a reflection of Ombaba's outlook on his life and time:

Clinton wants Mulla Omar in peace talks
WASHINGTON: US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told a congressional panel on Thursday that any Afghan-led peace process would have to include the Quetta Shura and its leader Mulla Omar.

Her statement before the House Committee on Foreign Affairs also emphasised several other key points reflecting a major change in US approach towards seeking a peaceful end to the Afghan conflict. “There is no solution in the region without Pakistan and no stable future in the region without a partnership.”
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by Kamboja »

ranjbe wrote:interesting take on why Kiya nahi will not fight the Taliban any more in the Friday Times:

The ghosts that haunt Kayani
Citing a staggering statistic, Gen Kayani let us into what's really beginning to haunt his institution: That the army has suffered 12,829 casualties since 2001, including 3,097 killed, with what the New York Times reports as an "unusually high ratio of one officer killed for every 16 soldiers since it [the Pakistan army] began fighting the Taliban".
Ah but how many of these are hapless cannon fodder aka the Frontier Corps, composed of disposable Pashtuns, and how many are actual TSPA Pakjabi afsars and abduls? 13,000 men have died, but whether they were TSPA men or FC cannon fodder makes a big difference.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by A_Gupta »

^^^ Jabbar jabbers:
The second known myth that the Pakistan army rules the roost, calls the shots on some, not all perhaps, vital issues – nuclear weapons, Kashmir, Afghanistan – and that story doesn’t end there, but the ISI in a de facto way rules the Pakistan army. That’s a general perception. The ISI is synonymous with all the critical decisions that are taken.

[00:16:10]

Well, first of all, let me say that this is only a half myth. It is half true: It has been true in the past; it is true presently as well, that the army does play a central role. And I’m not surprised, and I don’t see this changing over the next 10 to 15 to 20 years at least, without fundamental change in our relationship with India, where the onus doesn’t lie with us; we just can’t go out and make peace with India. You can’t make peace with a neighbor, which is the world’s largest importer of armaments last year.

How would you like it if you’re living in an apartment building and the guy next door just keeps on arming himself and you’re supposed to turn the other way and say, you know, it has nothing to do with me. It – of course it has something to do with me; even if intends to use the arms for a third neighbor, we have to be worried. So I don’t see that changing, and I’m not surprised because on some issues there is complete unanimity.
Canada and Mexico should be quaking in their boots - the US spends more on its military than the rest of the world combined. How can they know it has nothing to do with them?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by A_Gupta »

Majorly Profound has written well:
http://majorlyprofound.wordpress.com/20 ... countries/

Why Pakistan cannot seek peace with India:
Pakistan views herself as the ideological progeny of the Mughal empire, with an unfinished agenda of conquering the subcontinent. Abandoning this endeavour would mean accepting the eventual supremacy of India (simply due to her demographics and geographical area) which would be interpreted (in Pakistan) as the defeat of the religion itself. This is unthinkable. Furthermore, abandoning this identity of Pakistan is unthinkable. This is the first “circular” conundrum.
Historically, what is Pakistan could not contain Afghanistan without an alliance with what is India.
Peace between Pakistan and a strong Afghanistan is possible only with a strong Pakistan-India military alliance. In the absence of this alliance, peace is possible only with a destabilized Afghanistan. However an Afghanistan under perpetual Pakistani hegemony is possible only with strong economy in Pakistan, which is impossible without strong economic linkages with India. This is the second “circular” conundrum.
On the nature of the Pakistan-China relationship:
Pakistan shares no common grounds or linkages with China on the basis of race, religion, values or geography (except of course the tiny strip of a perilous highway). The single point of convergence with China is the shared hostility towards India. Even there, both countries disagree about the magnitude of hostility. While China is content with an India that cannot drain her resources through economic and territorial challenges, Pakistan wishes to bet her very survival towards besting India.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by wig »

some more good news from the present occupant of haiwan e sadr

Zardari sets a new record, of taking gifts from Afzal Khan in Islamabad
Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari, it seems, has perfected the art of receiving gifts and that too expensive ones.

Zardari has set a new record within a year of assuming the presidency by taking one-third of all the expensive gifts presented to all Pakistani Presidents and Prime Ministers, the government informed a Senate panel on Cabinet division.

Of the gifts totalling Rs160 million, Zardari has taken gifts worth Rs 62 million during the first year of his presidency. He reportedly got two BMWs and two Toyota jeeps as gift by former Libyan dictator, late Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, during his visit to Libya. He took the jeeps to his home, after paying a sum of only Rs 9.3 million as the retention cost.

During his foreign visits so far, Zardari has got 27 gifts worth Rs 62 million, which is one-third of the accumulated value of the 3,039 gifts, which were given to Pakistan Presidents and Prime Ministers in three decades.

The other 13 Pakistani Presidents and Prime Ministers, from Gen Ziaul Haq to Gen Musharraf and from PM Mohammad Khan Junejo to Shaukat Aziz, quietly took 3,039 expensive gifts worth Rs 160 million to their homes. The list shows three Presidents and two PMs - Farooq Leghari, Gen (retd) Pervez Musharraf, Asif Zardari, Nawaz Sharif and Shaukat Aziz - took gifts worth Rs 150 million out of Rs 160 million but Zardari took the largest share within a year of his presidency.

Others, including Gen Ziaul Haq, Ghulam Ishaq Khan, Rafiq Tarar, and PMs Mohammad Khan Junejo, Benazir Bhutto, Balakh Sher Mazari, Zafarullah Khan Jamali and Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain, got gifts worth Rs 10 million.

The record of similar gifts received and retained by Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani was not produced before the committee. Rules allow the recipients of gifts to pay only 5 % of their value as assessed by the cabinet division which is usually priced very low.

Shaukat Aziz (1,126 gifts), Gen (retd) Musharraf (260 gifts) and Zardari were among the few leaders who got the most expensive gifts. Sources said these gifts were valued at much lower price than their actual price to enable these leaders to take the gifts home without paying a single penny or after paying a meager part of the cost.

The official cost of these expensive gifts, including necklaces, jewellery boxes, diamonds, gold, watches, carpets, etc., was estimated at Rs 26 million.

According to the available official list, Gen Ayub Khan was the only ruler of Pakistan who deposited all his 3o expensive gifts with the Tosha Khana. Gen Zia (September 16, 1978 to August 17, 1988) received a total of 210 gifts worth Rs 1.7 million out of which he took 122 gifts with him to his house after paying Rs 1.6 million
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20111028/main4.htm
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by svinayak »

A_Gupta wrote:

Well, first of all, let me say that this is only a half myth. It is half true: It has been true in the past; it is true presently as well, that the army does play a central role. And I’m not surprised, and I don’t see this changing over the next 10 to 15 to 20 years at least, without fundamental change in our relationship with India, where the onus doesn’t lie with us; we just can’t go out and make peace with India. You can’t make peace with a neighbor, which is the world’s largest importer of armaments last year.

How would you like it if you’re living in an apartment building and the guy next door just keeps on arming himself and you’re supposed to turn the other way and say, you know, it has nothing to do with me. It – of course it has something to do with me; even if intends to use the arms for a third neighbor, we have to be worried. So I don’t see that changing, and I’m not surprised because on some issues there is complete unanimity.

Canada and Mexico should be quaking in their boots - the US spends more on its military than the rest of the world combined. How can they know it has nothing to do with them?
This is a false myth created about Pakistan when the real reason for Pakistan is to conquer and expand
This excuse for the world’s largest importer of armaments last year is very false.
Quote:
Pakistan views herself as the ideological progeny of the Mughal empire, with an unfinished agenda of conquering the subcontinent. Abandoning this endeavour would mean accepting the eventual supremacy of India (simply due to her demographics and geographical area) which would be interpreted (in Pakistan) as the defeat of the religion itself. This is unthinkable. Furthermore, abandoning this identity of Pakistan is unthinkable. This is the first “circular” conundrum.
There is no way they can blame it on India when the original intention of Pakistan was really about India.
There was never going to be a static Pakistan
Last edited by svinayak on 28 Oct 2011 12:40, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by Philip »

http://news.in.msn.com/international/ar ... id=5548665

Musharraf for rapprochement between ISI, RAW
Accusing India of trying to turn Afghanistan against Pakistan, former president Pervez Musharraf warned of "counter-measures" by Islamabad and at the same time called for a rapprochement between intelligence agencies ISI of Pakistan and the Indian RAW.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by menon s »

A_Gupta wrote:Majorly Profound has written well:
http://majorlyprofound.wordpress.com/20 ... countries/

Why Pakistan cannot seek peace with India:
Pakistan views herself as the ideological progeny of the Mughal empire, with an unfinished agenda of conquering the subcontinent. Abandoning this endeavour would mean accepting the eventual supremacy of India (simply due to her demographics and geographical area) which would be interpreted (in Pakistan) as the defeat of the religion itself. This is unthinkable. Furthermore, abandoning this identity of Pakistan is unthinkable. This is the first “circular” conundrum.
Historically, what is Pakistan could not contain Afghanistan without an alliance with what is India.
Peace between Pakistan and a strong Afghanistan is possible only with a strong Pakistan-India military alliance. In the absence of this alliance, peace is possible only with a destabilized Afghanistan. However an Afghanistan under perpetual Pakistani hegemony is possible only with strong economy in Pakistan, which is impossible without strong economic linkages with India. This is the second “circular” conundrum.

Loved that article very much, Thank you sir.
This is essentially what sets the India-Pakistan conflict apart from seemingly similar conflicts, and can end only with the ideological collapse of one of the adversaries — in this sense it resembles the US-Soviet cold-war conflict (which ended with the collapse of the USSR) than the Turkey-Greece or Egypt-Israel conflict (where the adversaries realized the futility of conflict and the economic advantages of peace).
well said.

On the nature of the Pakistan-China relationship:
Pakistan shares no common grounds or linkages with China on the basis of race, religion, values or geography (except of course the tiny strip of a perilous highway). The single point of convergence with China is the shared hostility towards India. Even there, both countries disagree about the magnitude of hostility. While China is content with an India that cannot drain her resources through economic and territorial challenges, Pakistan wishes to bet her very survival towards besting India.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by Dipanker »

Philip wrote:http://news.in.msn.com/international/ar ... id=5548665

Musharraf for rapprochement between ISI, RAW
Accusing India of trying to turn Afghanistan against Pakistan, former president Pervez Musharraf warned of "counter-measures" by Islamabad and at the same time called for a rapprochement between intelligence agencies ISI of Pakistan and the Indian RAW.
Mushy thinks he is still President. The guy has no shame.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by svinayak »

This seems to be the treasure of TSP and acheievements

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=yJi15DMlhi0
Thar coal Reserves - 850 Trillion Cubic Feet
Khewra Salt Mines - World's second largest salt mine
Reko Diq - World's largest copper & gold reserves
Tarbela Dam - World's 2nd largest dam
Mangla Dam - 6th largest dam
1967 & 1973 arab-israeli war
1979 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Mosque_Seizure
1979--1988 Afghan Jihad
1992 - 1996 Pakistani forces under UN saved muslim majority provinces from serbs eventually created Kosovo
1998 nuclear test
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by svinayak »

The Istanbul conference: Washington’s vision for the region
By Shahbaz Rana
Published: October 28, 2011
http://tribune.com.pk/story/283828/the- ... he-region/

Pakistan is now left with the choice of either aligning themselves more closely with China, or preferring to work with the New Silk Roads
ISLAMABAD:
As key world and regional players gear up to meet in Istanbul to push forward a Washington-backed regional integration plan for an ‘economically stable Afghanistan’, Pakistan stands at a crossroads. The question Islamabad is grappling with is whether it’s time to become a partner, or whether it should maintain its historical position – keep India away from resource-rich Central Asia.

As part of a broader economic integration strategy, Washington is selling the “New Silk Roads” concept- a network of roads and rails to connect Far East Asia and South Asia with Central Asia and then the West.
Leaders from 12 nations are to meet in Istanbul on November 2 with the stated objective of persuading regional players to commit to a stable and independent Afghanistan and to discuss regional economic cooperation. Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Iran, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, UAE, USA and United Kingdom are to attend.
Political pundits have termed the Istanbul Conference a prelude to the Bonn Conference, where delegations from 90 countries are expected to formulate a practical roadmap for 2014 – the year the US has said it will withdraw troops from Afghanistan.
Defence, economic and geostrategic experts say the broader objective of the strategy is to consolidate gains made in Afghanistan and strengthen the US grip on Central Asian resources to be used either by Americans or preferred partners like India. One of the objectives is to create hurdles in energy-hungry China’s bid to get unrestricted access to Central Asian resources, they add. Pakistan is now left with the choice of either aligning themselves more closely with China, or preferring to work with the New Silk Roads as the dichotomy grows stronger.

According to the United States Institute of Peace, a Congress-funded think tank, there are hopes that the New Silk Roads concept of an integrated trade and transportation network through Afghanistan can bring regional players and interlocutors together and attract new sources of investment.
Long time coming
A senior government functionary said that the US has been working on the proposal for a longer time. He said that the reorganisation of the US State Department in 2004 when it merged its Central Asia and South Asia desks was an important step towards this direction. Robin Raphael, former US ambassador to Pakistan on civilian assistance, has been assigned the New Silk Roads project.


The obvious advantage is that regional economic integration would bring economic benefits – but then, there’s the issue of Indian involvement and New Delhi’s subsequent access to Central Asia, he added. Qureshi said that the Afghanistan Pakistan Transit Trade Agreement was signed on the condition of excluding India from the treaty. However, Tanvir Khan said Pakistan will ultimately have to give India access. He was of the view that eventually, even China will have to be taken on board.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by svinayak »

Pakistan Is 'Too Big To Fail'
http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/is-pa ... ig-to-fail

By BRIAN KATULIS , Fellow at the Center for American Progress
October 28, 2011

About Brian Katulis:
Brian Katulis is a senior fellow at Center for American Progress, where his work focuses on U.S. national security policy in the Middle East and South…

Read more
Pakistan is currently not a reliable ally. But the United States and Pakistan need to continue working to bring our countries' policies toward closer alignment and investing in efforts to build stronger ties between our people. Pakistan is "too big to fail" and offers tremendous potential for playing a more constructive role in its region. Despite the rocky bilateral relations over the past year, the two countries need to work together to build a more stable foundation for the relationship.

Pakistan's policy approach has caused many in Washington to question whether the country even qualifies as an "ally" anymore. The problems are many: Osama bin Laden and other top al Qaeda militants had been able to remain secure in Pakistan's borders; an alphabet soup of terrorist groups including Lashkar-e-Taiba, which conducted the 2008 terror attacks in Mumbai, have used Pakistan as a base; the safe haven for Afghan Taliban in Pakistan is a main impediment to stability in Afghanistan. Moreover, members of Pakistan's security forces have killed U.S. troops in Afghanistan. Finally, Pakistan's nuclear arsenal is the fasting-growing in the world, nearly doubling since 2007. These are all factors contributing to negative feelings about Pakistan in the United States.

[Read about United States and Pakistan's tense relationship.]

And those feelings are mutual. On my most recent visit to Pakistan earlier this month, I witnessed firsthand the latest round of tensions between our two countries sparked by recent statements last month by now-retired Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mike Mullen that Pakistan's security agencies were supporting Taliban insurgent groups that mount attacks against U.S., Afghan, and NATO forces across the border in Afghanistan. Throughout my visit, Express News 24/7, a television channel, had a melodramatic news promotion playing about every half hour in a continuous loop, with a booming voice stating—"Pak-U.S. ties at lowest ever. U.S. levels allegations, hurls threats. Pakistan rejects charges. PM convenes All Parties Conference. Politicians rise to the occasion. Nation unites." In my meetings with Pakistani officials and speaking engagements at universities and think tanks, I heard an endless stream of criticisms about U.S. policy—CIA drone strikes in Pakistan, the violation of Pakistan's sovereignty in the May raid on bin Laden's compound, and the schizophrenia of Pakistan's views about whether U.S. troops should leave or stay in Afghanistan.

Despite all of these considerable problems, the United States needs to redouble its efforts to influence Pakistan to play a more constructive role as a regional leader. A sustainable peace in Afghanistan is impossible without Pakistan. Terrorist groups have killed tens of thousands of innocent Pakistanis over the last decade, and this brutal campaign has turned millions against extremism in Pakistan, creating an opening to further marginalize militancy. Pakistan has a large and educated middle class, and if it addresses its internal political and economic challenges, the country could serve as a vital economic link between the countries if its region. For decades, Pakistanis have suffered from a leadership deficit in its government and a trust deficit with major powers around the world, including the United States. Pakistan today has an opportunity to become a positive leader in its region, and sustained U.S. engagement, as difficult as it seems, can help Pakistan address its many threats and challenges.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by Sanku »

Dipanker wrote: Mushy thinks he is still President. The guy has no shame.
Which Paki has shame? They only have H&D
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Post by Rajdeep »

Post-26/11, Mukherjee's words rattled Pakistan: Condoleezza Rice

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 517620.cms
"The Pakistanis were at once terrified and in the same breath dismissive of the Indian claims. President Zardari emphasised his desire to avoid war but couldn't bring himself to acknowledge Pakistan's likely role in the attacks," Rice writes.
By now the international phone lines were buzzing with the news. The Pakistanis were calling everyone--the Saudis, the Emiratis, the Chinese.
Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gillani, in a long speech told her that terrorists who had launched the attack had nothing to do with Pakistan.

"Mr Prime Minister, I said, either you're lying to me or your people are lying to you. I then went on to tell him what we--the United States--knew about the origins of the attack," she wrote.
"Finally, I went to meet the chief of staff, General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani. Our military liked him and considered him honest and effective. :rotfl:
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