India-US Strategic News and Discussion

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 02 Nov 2011 03:35

Jindal has already proven his incompetence on the national stage. he will probably make more "idolatry" statements in the future hoping to appease to his masters, but ultimately, he is SDRE and will not be allowed to grow beyond a certain point.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 02 Nov 2011 04:21

devesh wrote:Jindal has already proven his incompetence on the national stage. he will probably make more "idolatry" statements in the future hoping to appease to his masters, but ultimately, he is SDRE and will not be allowed to grow beyond a certain point.

Agreed but let's limit this to Jindal himself. It will/should not have anything to do with first or second generation Americans of Indian origin. They will compete on merit and smarts.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 02 Nov 2011 04:56

Cosmo R provides a hopeful prognostication of the US. You gotta admire the US, Canada and the UK. They have wrought fundamental changes to their political and social systems over the last generation.

To denounce them as Indians living here would be hypocrisy. We live much better than the majority of white people. We must never forget that. Ultimately the Hindu has the education paradigm of Indian culture. If one gains gyan from a guru the shikshya is in life-long debt. That is why you will never see terrorism perpetrated by Hindus in the west.

This is not to say that they are obligated to remain silent and acquiesce in any and all domestic and foreign policy. As good citizens it is their duty to fully engage in the political system, including providing critique.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 02 Nov 2011 05:02

CRamS

>>One last time. All of your above responses prove my point which you seem to take issue with, namely, an SDRE will be given space only if he/she expresses a US-centric viewpoint and espouses a euro-centric worldview, namely serves as a "useful idiot".

Yes, but what is your point? What is so surprising or unusual about the above? Why would we expect the US to allow an SDRE space to give, say, an Indo-centric viewpoint? Is it because you expect the US to be "better than the rest" somehow? I don't think most Indians look at it that way. "Useful idiot" etc is your phrase and characterisation. And even if they were, they can be useful idiots in favour of India too. Is Ashley Tellis, for instance, a useful idiot? Is Fareed Zakaria a useful idiot, and if so for whom? They are US citizens. By that token all media people, white, black or brown, are useful idiots.

>>BTW, I am not saying US has to allow an Indian nationalist viewpoint. They are under no obligations.

Not just that. No Indian should expect them to have a more neutral (or objective) view of India than, for example, China does. This way you will not find yourself surprised by the crap that comes out of the American media and even government spokesmen, every now and then.

>> But what I am saying is that free speech only has its worth if dissenting viewpoints are allowed,

This is a a statement of general principle. Sure free speech = dissenting viewpoints.

>>or else whats the difference between Xinhua news agency that dictates what needs to be said, and US which has other means of achieving the same end?

I don't know if you watch China's English language channel CCTV ... you'll find that the difference is not much, except the Americans generally have more English language channels (which we can understand), better looking and slicker anchors, and a better command of the English language. Other than that, except for occasionally startling comments or phraseology, which may be more cultural than aything else, there isn't a whole lot of difference.

>>And one more time, you don't find anything troubling that here we are 10+ years into GWOT, and the dominant viewpoint in US is that the biggest perpetrator of terror, TSP, must feel "secure" from the worst afflicted victim India?

Nope. I did not expect any better. I'm wondering, given our experience of the past 40 odd years with the US, why you seem to be expecting something better.

>>And there is not a single voice in the main stream media that can challenge this hideous notion?

American media? Who cares if there is a single voice or multiple voices? For India it makes no difference. We have to fight our own wars, regardless of what talking heads in the US say - good or bad.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 02 Nov 2011 05:04

Regarding Jindal's "pagan" remark. I don't understand what the fuss is about. I thought "pagan" is to christianity what "kaffir" is to islam. We are all proud to be kaffirs. We should be proud to be pagans as well.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 02 Nov 2011 05:10

I don't whether to

or

.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 02 Nov 2011 05:30

I can very well recall when Jindal was asking for 50$ donation from "kommunity".
But lets be fair , he has to play the gallery as well follow the dictats of dogma. His parents have kept their roots .

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 02 Nov 2011 05:57

what fair shair? we have our parameters of judging this SDRE. when he fails, he fails. that's it. no need to fawn over him. if he is so quick to distance himself from the hated birth culture, why give a s$it about where he ends up....

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 02 Nov 2011 07:09

Excerpts from Condi Rice's book

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 02 Nov 2011 07:34

Strobe Talbott on Richard Holbrooke

Holbrooke in His Own Words

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Nov 2011 07:40

abhishek_sharma wrote:Excerpts from Condi Rice's book

Acharya

Hats off to you.

There is so much in her book that goes back to the end of the fifties.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 02 Nov 2011 07:55

Is this group think, or is the U.S. about to be energy-independent?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 02 Nov 2011 08:18

ramana wrote:
Acharya

Hats off to you.

There is so much in her book that goes back to the end of the fifties.

“He doesn’t want to tell you no,” he said. “I’ve done my best. I told him that the United States wants to take this thirty-year millstone from around your neck. You should do it. But he can’t sell it in New Delhi.”

If India has the millstone India would be exploding another 20 more test weapons now/

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Nov 2011 08:59

It never had the millstone even when the PRC gave loud noise after 1962.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Nov 2011 19:05

http://www.unitedagainstnucleariran.com ... leadership

we truly must learn someting from the US in terms of quickly cobbling together these pressure groups of think tankers and civil servants who are then given wide coverage on TV on any issue.

they threaten to pressure for US sanctions against any co doing business with iran in this case and specifically target huawei on the front page.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 02 Nov 2011 19:07

Singha wrote:http://www.unitedagainstnucleariran.com ... leadership

we truly must learn someting from the US in terms of quickly cobbling together these pressure groups of think tankers and civil servants who are then given wide coverage on TV on any issue.

they threaten to pressure for US sanctions against any co doing business with iran in this case and specifically target huawei on the front page.

It helps if you have right people in right places and media plays your tune when needed.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 02 Nov 2011 19:40

Look at the language.

The seller is doing some good service to the seller by telling him how to use his money. Reminds me Mehdi (PBUH) marketing skills...

The proposed civil nuclear deal would make it possible for the United States — and American companies — to help India develop its potentially rich market for this environmentally friendly energy source. But the breakthrough was not just about nuclear power — it would unlock a wide range of possible areas of cooperation with a country that was an emerging power in the knowledge-based revolution in economic affairs.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 02 Nov 2011 19:49

“Mr Prime Minister, this is the deal of a lifetime. You and President Bush are about to put US-Indian relations on a fundamentally new footing. I know it’s hard for you, but it’s hard for the President too. I didn’t come here to negotiate language — only to ask you to tell your officials to get this done. And let’s get it done before you see the President.” Prime Minister Singh, a mild-mannered man who speaks slowly and softly, pushed back but eventually gave the nod to his people to try again.

Why this urgency.

Somewhere else (recent Times mag, IIRC) I read that US nuclear triad is getting old and needs replacement and it is estimated to cost ~$600B. The article also says the triad may be reduced to nuclear diad, without the missile force; just replacement bombers and nuclear submarines.

On the other hand, most of the existing nuclear power plants are coming to end of their lives and need replacement in a decade or two.

Could it be the reason?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Nov 2011 20:31

^^^PRC.

What Texmati is saying is lets get back to the Fifties and forget past perfidies.

I need to read that book.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 02 Nov 2011 22:04

Used car salesmen. Ack thoo....

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 03 Nov 2011 06:29

Condoleezza Rice on Obama, “Leading from Behind,” Iraq, and More

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 03 Nov 2011 06:33

subodh wrote: Vera Chokalingam. I know her through mutual friends. Good kid. Is on the US version of The Office.

Forgot to ask, but what is reason for her change in last name to Kalling? First name Mindy I gather from wiki is a nick name given by her parents.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 03 Nov 2011 06:52

CRamS wrote:
subodh wrote: Vera Chokalingam. I know her through mutual friends. Good kid. Is on the US version of The Office.
Forgot to ask, but what is reason for her change in last name to Kalling? First name Mindy I gather from wiki is a nick name given by her parents.

Think about it : Kal Penn etc. Chokalingam not a good for name recognition by agents. Want a career, shorten your name and make it eponymous (assumed/real names):

1. Cary Grant : Archibald Alexander Leach
2. John Wayne: Marion Mitchell Morrison
3. Robert Taylor: Spangler Arlington Brugh

Why should Vera not do the same to advance her career?

arun · Post by **arun** » 03 Nov 2011 08:41

X Posted from the Indian Military Aviation thread.

SSridhar wrote:Pentagon still keen on selling fighter jets to India

In a nine-page report to the Congress yesterday, the Pentagon acknowledged that India’s recent decision not to opt for America’s F-16 and F-18 for its 126-fighter jets was a setback.

“Despite this setback, we believe US aircraft, such as the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), to be the best in the world.

Should India indicate interest in the JSF, the United States would be prepared to provide information on the JSF and its requirements (infrastructure, security, etc.) to support India’s future planning,” the Pentagon informed the US congress.

Continually looking for ways to expand defence cooperation with India, the Pentagon said it is seeking opportunities for increased science and technology cooperation that may lead to co-development opportunities with India as a partner.

The referenced report by the US Department of Defense to the US Congress is available here:

Report to Congress on U.S.-India Security Cooperation

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 03 Nov 2011 10:09

Cosmo_R wrote:
CRamS wrote:quote="subodh"
Vera Chokalingam. I know her through mutual friends. Good kid. Is on the US version of The Office. /quote

Forgot to ask, but what is reason for her change in last name to Kalling? First name Mindy I gather from wiki is a nick name given by her parents.
Think about it : Kal Penn etc. Chokalingam not a good for name recognition by agents. Want a career, shorten your name and make it eponymous (assumed/real names):

1. Cary Grant : Archibald Alexander Leach
2. John Wayne: Marion Mitchell Morrison
3. Robert Taylor: Spangler Arlington Brugh

Why should Vera not do the same to advance her career?

Completely agree. Same reason why one Shivaji Rao Gaekwad changed his name to Rajinikanth, Muhammad Kutty Ismail became Mamooty etc.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Nov 2011 10:24

> Shivaji Rao Gaekwad changed his name to Rajinikanth

OMG he is a marathi? I had read about him being a bus conductor in BMTC and hailing from krishnagiri in TN-KT border but didnt realize his ancestry must be from north karnataka or MH?

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 03 Nov 2011 14:46

WTF? Seriously? Rajni is from Maharashtra? Good lord. Had no clue... Someone please to confirm or deny!!!

If yes, that would be truly wonderful and sublimely Indian.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 03 Nov 2011 14:50

JE Menon wrote:WTF? Seriously? Rajni is from Maharashtra? Good lord. Had no clue... Someone please to confirm or deny!!!

If yes, that would be truly wonderful and sublimely Indian.

Rajinikanth was born as Shivaji Rao Gaikwad (Marathi: शिवाजीराव गायकवाड) in a Maharashtrian family, to mother Jijabai and father Ramoji Rao Gaekwad, on 12 December 1950 in the Indian city of Bangalore.
Source: wikipedia

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 03 Nov 2011 15:25

I LOVE IT.

sum · Post by **sum** » 03 Nov 2011 15:38

^^ Surprised that all knowing See-nears like JEM didnt know this!!!

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 03 Nov 2011 15:45

sum wrote:^^ Surprised that all knowing See-nears like JEM didnt know this!!!

It was all over the news when Rajini did blockbuster "Shivaji" movie. I cannot understand how JEM missed it!

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 03 Nov 2011 16:11

Boss, I'm totally Macaulayized, deracinated (and just about every other epithet you can think of)

... Living on my own pretty much outside physical Indic boundaries (a pioneer in a sense

). Never had much inclination for our entertainment industry, although in last couple of years I have been following more closely due to its "strategic" importance... Haven't seen a Mallu movie since Eenadu, a Tamil movie since I was in school there, and only two Hindi movies over the past decade (Sarkar & its sequel). And I never thought of Rajni as anything but Tamil, just took it for granted. Should have known better. MGR was a Mallu (a Palakkad Menon even - exhibiting a little provincial pride there

)... speaks a lot about the fundamental eclecticism and welcoming nature of Tamil Nadu (where I spent a lot of my formative years), while throwing up its own megastars like Shivaji Ganeshan, who I personally think was the greatest human beings to come out of Tamil Nadu.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 03 Nov 2011 16:13

Oh sh1t, we are way OT here... Back to regular programming people.

subodh · Post by **subodh** » 03 Nov 2011 16:27

CRamS wrote:
subodh wrote: Vera Chokalingam. I know her through mutual friends. Good kid. Is on the US version of The Office.
Forgot to ask, but what is reason for her change in last name to Kalling? First name Mindy I gather from wiki is a nick name given by her parents.

Yes, that earlier last name was pretty much unusable in the industry. Kaling is easy, and tough to pin down re origin.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 03 Nov 2011 20:16

More on the Hindu phobia in Kentucky
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.c ... hp?ref=fpb

This past Friday, Beshear attended a groundbreaking ceremony in Elizabethtown, Kentucky, for a new factory run by FlexFilm, a company based in India that makes materials for packaging, printing, insulation and other purposes. The plant represents a $180 million investment, and is expected to create 250 jobs in Kentucky.

The groundbreaking included a Hindu ceremony, the bhoomi poojan. On Tuesday, Williams attacked Beshear’s participation in the ceremony as “idolatry.” and “prayers to false gods.”

“He’s there participating with Hindu priests, participating in a religious ceremony,” Williams said. “They can say what they want to. He’s sitting down there with his legs crossed, participating in Hindu prayers with a dot on his forehead with incense burning around him. I don’t know what the man was thinking.”

Williams further told reports: “If I’m a Christian, I don’t participate in Jewish prayers. I’m glad they do that. I don’t participate in Hindu prayers. I don’t participate in Muslim prayers. I don’t do that. To get down and get involved and participate in prayers to these polytheistic situations, where you have these Hindu gods that they are praying to, doesn’t appear to me to be in line with what a governor of the Commonwealth of Kentucky ought to be doing.”

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 03 Nov 2011 20:49

It will be decades before such comments are seen as offensive

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 03 Nov 2011 20:52

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 03 Nov 2011 21:17

A_Gupta wrote:More on the Hindu phobia in Kentucky
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.c ... hp?ref=fpb

This past Friday, Beshear attended a groundbreaking ceremony in Elizabethtown, Kentucky, for a new factory run by FlexFilm, a company based in India that makes materials for packaging, printing, insulation and other purposes. The plant represents a $180 million investment, and is expected to create 250 jobs in Kentucky.

The groundbreaking included a Hindu ceremony, the bhoomi poojan. On Tuesday, Williams attacked Beshear’s participation in the ceremony as “idolatry.” and “prayers to false gods.”

“He’s there participating with Hindu priests, participating in a religious ceremony,” Williams said. “They can say what they want to. He’s sitting down there with his legs crossed, participating in Hindu prayers with a dot on his forehead with incense burning around him. I don’t know what the man was thinking.”

Williams further told reports: “If I’m a Christian, I don’t participate in Jewish prayers. I’m glad they do that. I don’t participate in Hindu prayers. I don’t participate in Muslim prayers. I don’t do that. To get down and get involved and participate in prayers to these polytheistic situations, where you have these Hindu gods that they are praying to, doesn’t appear to me to be in line with what a governor of the Commonwealth of Kentucky ought to be doing.”

A Gupta ji , You left out important portion of the report.I will post the complete report.

Kentucky Republican gubernatorial nominee David Williams, who is also the president of the state Senate, released a statement Wednesday further clarifying his attack on Democratic Gov. Steve Beshear, over Beshear participating in a Hindu religious ceremony at the groundbreaking for a factory run by an Indian company.

Williams’s statement, via the Cincinnati Enquirer:

“To be clear, I very much support economic development and strongly believe in freedom of religion. What I cannot understand is why Governor Beshear has a long pattern of opposing outward displays of the Christian faith such as Christmas trees, prayers before high school football games, and posting the 10 Commandments but apparently has no problem personally participating in displays of non-Christian religions.

“I see nothing wrong with a governor attending a religious gathering and respecting other cultures. But for him to engage and participate in a Hindu religious ceremony where prayers are being offered to gods in which he does not believe is not only disrespectful of Hinduism but stands in direct opposition to his own expressed Christian faith which recognizes but one God. It also flies in the face of his previous record of stamping out religious displays in governmental settings, which all happened to be Christian in nature.”

The polls throughout the race have shown Beshear heavily favored to win re-election — such as one out this week from the Louisville Courier-Journal, with Beshear ahead of Williams by a margin of 54%-29%.

This past Friday, Beshear attended a groundbreaking ceremony in Elizabethtown, Kentucky, for a new factory run by FlexFilm, a company based in India that makes materials for packaging, printing, insulation and other purposes. The plant represents a $180 million investment, and is expected to create 250 jobs in Kentucky.

The groundbreaking included a Hindu ceremony, the bhoomi poojan. On Tuesday, Williams attacked Beshear’s participation in the ceremony as “idolatry.” and “prayers to false gods.”

“He’s there participating with Hindu priests, participating in a religious ceremony,” Williams said. “They can say what they want to. He’s sitting down there with his legs crossed, participating in Hindu prayers with a dot on his forehead with incense burning around him. I don’t know what the man was thinking.”

Williams further told reports: “If I’m a Christian, I don’t participate in Jewish prayers. I’m glad they do that. I don’t participate in Hindu prayers. I don’t participate in Muslim prayers. I don’t do that. To get down and get involved and participate in prayers to these polytheistic situations, where you have these Hindu gods that they are praying to, doesn’t appear to me to be in line with what a governor of the Commonwealth of Kentucky ought to be doing.”

Now it is clear that he does not understand Hinduism when he aludes to Polytheism wrt Hinduism.But he is definitely not Hindu phobic or anti hindu.Going by his statements he is against appeasement of any group and he is accusing the present governor of harboring bias against christians.Nothing wrong with that.

Here on BRF we oppose the psedo seculars and lefties on the same grounds.Nothing wrong with that.Doesn't make us anti muslims or secular phobic.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 03 Nov 2011 21:23

But southern states are known for talking about their religion and are not used to 'secular' govt

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 03 Nov 2011 21:25

nope, that bolded part is necessary Taqyia. his point is hatred towards "pagans". that's what he's trying to say but sugarcoating for PC requirements. it is Hindu-phobia born out of the Christian hatred for diversity and "paganism"...