Indian Interests

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Aditya_V
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Aditya_V »

Pranav wrote:
Prem wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/06/opini ... .html?_r=1
India’s Innovation Stimulus
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
A reader's comment to that article -
I would be impressed if those 600 million cellphones had been made in India. Or even assembled. Even one of them.

Instead, India reduced import duty on cellphones to 1/100th that charged for most other goods, such as vitamins. Why?

India missed a golden opportunity to establish a high-tech manufacturing base. All it had to do was tell those cellphone companies that if they wanted to sell in India they had to make them in India. With the prospect of sales in the hundreds of millions, surely they would have set up plants.
Is the claim about the duties on mobile phones accurate?
ERr. where is Nokia factory which produces the largest number (mostly low end ones) located? and most of brands like Max mobile etc. use CHinese parts and assembled in India if I am right.

But on a broader scale he is right, Indians especially for some reason every purchase/ quality guy I deal with prefers to import than use local products.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pratyush »

Imphal
Manipur on brink of a breakdown


Both the center and the state are ruled by the INC. Yet there is no indication by the center that it will take any step to alleviate the suffering of the Manipuri people.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by derkonig »

That is because the Manipuris are still majority Hindu and patriotic to India unlike the EJ scum around them.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pratyush »

Aha....... The light bulb moment.

Then it is just a demonstration of Indian Sekularism.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Prem »

Show us the money, we will face the bullets, say Keralites
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/channels ... alites-467
Afghanistan is the hottest job destination for Keralites who once made a beeline for the Middle East.
According to manpower recruitment agencies, it’s the hefty pay packets that are attracting Keralites to Afghanistan where massive reconstruction is taking place after the Taliban were driven out by invading American forces.
Former president of the All Kerala Manpower Export Association, Mohammad K. Makkar, says there’s a huge demand for labourers in Afghanistan as international companies have set up shop there. “Particularly electricians, plumbers, welding experts, mechanics, masons and carpenters are in high demand in the US companies. The camp where they stay is called US Labour Camp,” Makkar said.The US companies prefer labourers from India, particularly Kerala, because they come very cheap compared to labourers from the US. And for Keralites, the salaries are better than those being offered in Saudi Arabia or other Middle East countries. Even though the risks are higher — the US Labour Camps are on Al-Qaeda’s radar — the pay seems to compensate. According to Paulose K. Mathew, chairman of the Travel Agents’ Federation of India (TAFI), labourers from Kerala are being paid a monthly salary of US$ 1500 (Rs 75,000). Labour from the US or Europe would have to be paid at least US $10,000 a month. Iraq is another war-torn country that is luring labourers from Kerala for higher salaries than they would get elsewhere. And Libya is expected to go through a period of reconstruction now that it has got rid of Colonel Gaddafi whose last stand has destroyed much of the country’s infrastructure.Some 50 lakh Keralites work outside India. Saudi Arabia alone employs 20 lakh Keralites. As yet it is unclear how many Keralites work in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan, because they are mostly hired from the Middle East. Emigration rules require that details of the contract, nature and location of job and details of the overseas employer be submitted to the Indian embassy, but many outsourcing agencies, particularly those in the Gulf countries, fly out poorly paid labourers to Afghanistan or Iraq on a visitor’s visa, keeping the Indian Embassy in the dark.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by ramana »

And they prefer to be in the dark!
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by devesh »

Brihaspati ji,

have you read about Karen Leonard's "Great Firm Theory"? it has some very interesting points. she confirms what you've said before: about the existence of a banking class in India which didn't have to deal with "agriculturalists", and was purely involved in the financializing/monetizing aspects of mercantilism.

the transition between Shivaji+Sambhaji and later leadership "changed" the orientation of the Marathas. IMVHO, until 1690, Marathas showed a very *deep* understanding of the requirement to establish a firm base in their periphery. Shivaji knew exactly what he was doing when he "convinced" the bankers and traders of Surat that the days of Mughals were over. his raids on Surat were instrumental in blowing a hole in Mughal trading networks.

there are also many other curious "movements" of these bankers from various parts of India to East Coast like Bengal and the Andhra Coast. it seems these families were eager to finance EIC's rise. of course, they didn't know that eventually EIC would screw them and take over the role that they played in Indian finance...serves them right. but the damage to the country was already done and the initial decisions irreversible.

EIC's pattern of establishing dominance is clear. first they established the foothold in Bengal and nurtured indigenous interests who were eager to participate with EIC. then the extended control all along East Coast up to Madras. The Circars (coastal Andhra) became one of the power bases of EIC along with Bengal and Madras. after that point, they could easily manipulate the "hinterland".

what are the primary sources and their interpretations on how Marathas handled their relations with trading and finance interests? this it is clear that they understood the importance from the fact that they facilitated the movement of many Gujarat trading interests to Poona and later these interests financed the Marathas. did they have such a vision for Gangetic Valley? when they ventured into Uttar Pradesh areas, did they try to do something similar???

what are the sources to understand Maratha dealings with trading/banking class?

as a side note, modern day entrepreneurs, who have risen post-Colonial period, should keep in mind the experience of the rich and powerful banking clans of 17th and 18th century India. they should remember that collaboration with foreign interests will be beneficial in the short term, but in the long term, the same external powers will screw them and their families and take over.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pratyush »

Pratyush
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pratyush »

Manipur shutdown: Whose responsibility is the North-East?

While the GOI is afraid of RSS under every bed, the people of Manipur continue to suffer.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pratyush »

Pratyush wrote:Manipur shutdown: Whose responsibility is the North-East?

While the GOI is afraid of RSS under every bed, the people of Manipur continue to suffer.

This morning I the TV said the one convoy reached the capital using the NH 53. But after 100 days it is not enough. Why did it take this long for the GOI to organize relief for the state of Manipur. Also shame on the National media for blanking out the news as if ti was a different country.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pratyush »

How does Manmohan Singh’s honesty help us?

I a social gathering some time ago, some one said the MMS's integrity cannot be questioned. To which I said that even Dhritrashtra was a good man. But when it came to Duryodhan, he was utterly blind to his faults. Of what use was Dhritrashtra's goodness.

I am happy that some of the media has started questioning the same. The question remains, is it to pave the way for Amul baby. Or some thing else.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by sum »

The question remains, is it to pave the way for Amul baby. Or some thing else.
One can safely bet that its for the former
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pratyush »

Whichever way you look at it, Mamata will have the last laugh

Quoting from the relevant section of the article.
Mamata is not the one to ease pressure without extracting her pound of flesh. She is keeping the balance of convenience in her favour and her eyes are set on securing a good bargain for her people on the real bread and butter issues through a Rs 19,000 crore financial package for West Bengal. Though the TMC chief herself has denied any connection, there are many who believe she upped the ante on the petrol price hike issue only to put pressure on Delhi and secure a better package for the state.

To my mind, it does not really matter much whether Mamata has won or lost this round to Manmohan Singh. The fact of the matter is that in the game of numbers in the parliamentary democracy, right now it’s the TMC leader who holds most of the aces as the UPA needs her more than she, them. Till the time this basic equation remains, one can be sure of Mamata giving more such scares to the UPA leadership in Delhi.


And if her past track record is any indication, only a very thin line will separate her threats from reality. Her mercurial temperament will also ensure that her political moves take the form of a suspense thriller, keeping everyone on the edge of their seats.

Each time she will hold a gun to the UPA’s head, nobody will really be able to tell whether or not Mamata will pull the trigger.
I am eagerly waiting for the next round between the INC and the TMC.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Aditya_V »

Pratyush wrote:Whichever way you look at it, Mamata will have the last laugh

Quoting from the relevant section of the article.
Mamata is not the one to ease pressure without extracting her pound of flesh. She is keeping the balance of convenience in her favour and her eyes are set on securing a good bargain for her people on the real bread and butter issues through a Rs 19,000 crore financial package for West Bengal. Though the TMC chief herself has denied any connection, there are many who believe she upped the ante on the petrol price hike issue only to put pressure on Delhi and secure a better package for the state.

To my mind, it does not really matter much whether Mamata has won or lost this round to Manmohan Singh. The fact of the matter is that in the game of numbers in the parliamentary democracy, right now it’s the TMC leader who holds most of the aces as the UPA needs her more than she, them. Till the time this basic equation remains, one can be sure of Mamata giving more such scares to the UPA leadership in Delhi.


And if her past track record is any indication, only a very thin line will separate her threats from reality. Her mercurial temperament will also ensure that her political moves take the form of a suspense thriller, keeping everyone on the edge of their seats.

Each time she will hold a gun to the UPA’s head, nobody will really be able to tell whether or not Mamata will pull the trigger.
I am eagerly waiting for the next round between the INC and the TMC.
No way, SP and BSP are unreported allies. they have never voted against UPA when it matters in the last 7 years be it no confidence votes or PAC reports etc..

So Mamata needs needs Central Government support and not the other way around.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Rony »

Why i am not suprised !

Govt has no information about Sonia Gandhi's foreign tours?
No government department seems to have any information about the tours and travels undertaken by UPA chairperson Sonia Gandhi as an RTI application kept moving to different ministries without any substantial response.

The case relates to an RTI application filed by one Kailash Kanwar of Bhilwara in Rajasthan who sought to know about the foreign visits undertaken by the UPA and National Advisory Council Chairperson during the last two years.

He had also sought information about recent visit of Gandhi for her reported treatment in the United States of America through the application under the transparency law.

The application sent to External Affairs Ministry was transferred to Parliamentary Affairs Ministry and Ministry of Statistics and Programme Implementation under the provisions of RTI Act.

While transferring, the Ministry said, "The Ministry of Parliamentary Affairs is the concerned department for providing information on foreign visits undertaken by Smt Sonia Gandhi as Member of Parliament.

"Regarding foreign visits undertaken by Smt Sonia Gandhi as Chairperson of National Advisory Council, the Ministry of Statistics and Programme Implementation is the concerned Ministry. Therefore Point 3 and 4 of the RTI application (related with the visits) is transferred to them under section 6(3)(ii) of the RTI Act for necessary action."

Ministry of Statistics forwarded the application to National Advisory Council with remarks that it is "not involved in any matter related to tour or trips taken by the members of the NAC or by Smt Sonia Gandhi as UPA Chairperson at any point of time."

The NAC said it has "no information on the said matter" and forwarded it to Prime Minister's Office "since the PMO is the custodian of information relating to all the expenditure incurred in the functioning of the NAC."

The Prime Minister's Office in its reply dated October 20 said, "No information is held with the records held by the office."

The Ministry of Parliamentary Affairs to which MEA has transferred the application has said as per its records it has "zero information" about the foreign tours undertaken by Sonia Gandhi.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by ramana »

Pratyush wrote:How does Manmohan Singh’s honesty help us?

I a social gathering some time ago, some one said the MMS's integrity cannot be questioned. To which I said that even Dhritrashtra was a good man. But when it came to Duryodhan, he was utterly blind to his faults. Of what use was Dhritrashtra's goodness.

I am happy that some of the media has started questioning the same. The question remains, is it to pave the way for Amul baby. Or some thing else.

If the media questions it then its to pave the way for Bablu.(Baby Amul)

The 2Gs want to replace MMS somehow so BABLU can be incumbents for atleast two years so he has the aura of PM. However MMS is not willing to play ball. The initial game was to get him replaced by the either of the other two jokers: Pranab and PC. These two in their over ambition have shot each other down. So now that option is foreclosed they idea is to put all the scam/vam on MMS and get him to resign.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pratyush »

SAD (D) seeks ban on Advani's yatra

can any one shed more light on the circumstances
A deputation of SAD (D) led by Jaswinder Singh Balliawal submitted the memorandum at Akal Takht office on Wednesday. Talking to TOI, Balliawal said, "No doubt Indira Gandhi was responsible for the attack on Golden Temple in 1984 but we must not forget that it was L K Advani who played a significant role to instigate her to order Operation Bluestar," while claiming that Advani had mentioned the incident in his autobiography - My Country My Life. The party had earlier submitted a memorandum to Punjab governor Shivraj Patil requesting a ban on the yatra.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by vishvak »

ramana wrote:If the media questions it then its to pave the way for Bablu.(Baby Amul)

The 2Gs want to replace MMS somehow so BABLU can be incumbents for atleast two years so he has the aura of PM. However MMS is not willing to play ball. The initial game was to get him replaced by the either of the other two jokers: Pranab and PC. These two in their over ambition have shot each other down. So now that option is foreclosed they idea is to put all the scam/vam on MMS and get him to resign.
How can a honest PM suddenly be replaced? Especially by someone known not for intellect & who has not been even a mayor of a town, let alone be a CM?
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by sum »

^^ When the ruling family wants something, anything can be bent to make it happen!

Do you think it is possible for anyone other than the empress to travel on GoI money for treatments abroad and no one even gets a whiff she is out of the country and there is no clue about the illness for which so much money is being spent.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pratyush »

vishvak wrote: How can a honest PM suddenly be replaced? Especially by someone known not for intellect & who has not been even a mayor of a town, let alone be a CM?

Are you really that naive?? :P

Of what use is his honesty when the country is looted by all and sundry. On a daily basis. Where he is the PM but has no actual power.

But in the longer term, he is the best PM India could have had.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by vishvak »

Pratyush wrote:
vishvak wrote: How can a honest PM suddenly be replaced? Especially by someone known not for intellect & who has not been even a mayor of a town, let alone be a CM?

Are you really that naive?? :P
Just that the Congress party itself said that he is PM because he is honest PM, like it is optional otherwise. Now suddenly how can the party replace him by giving excuses and the incumbent being a nobody! My 2 khota sikka only!
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Aditya_V »

Pratyush wrote:SAD (D) seeks ban on Advani's yatra

can any one shed more light on the circumstances
A deputation of SAD (D) led by Jaswinder Singh Balliawal submitted the memorandum at Akal Takht office on Wednesday. Talking to TOI, Balliawal said, "No doubt Indira Gandhi was responsible for the attack on Golden Temple in 1984 but we must not forget that it was L K Advani who played a significant role to instigate her to order Operation Bluestar," while claiming that Advani had mentioned the incident in his autobiography - My Country My Life. The party had earlier submitted a memorandum to Punjab governor Shivraj Patil requesting a ban on the yatra.
SAD (D) is just a INC proxy making a straw man argument - no real basis
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by RamaY »

devesh wrote: as a side note, modern day entrepreneurs, who have risen post-Colonial period, should keep in mind the experience of the rich and powerful banking clans of 17th and 18th century India. they should remember that collaboration with foreign interests will be beneficial in the short term, but in the long term, the same external powers will screw them and their families and take over.
The problem is since its inception, INC is made up of Ideological Non-Citizens of India. This INC leadership, over a period of time, made this political party into an "INC system", similar to the "Caste-System".
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by RamaY »

Got thru mail. Apologies if posted already


Dear Rama garu,
This is ***. Sir , do you remember the discussion we had while our papikondalu trip (in 2008), regarding religion conversions and its negative effects on future generations?

Recently Tehelka magazine has issued an investigation report on how these Christian missionaries are planning for conversions. I just thought sharing it with you. Please read in leisure.
regards
***

THOSE THAT SHALL DELIVER...
The Al Qaeda has "benefitted from a network structure that allows passionate and committed individuals and groups to contribute to a wider purpose (whether for good or ill) with a minimum of co-ordination and administration. Widely seen as an effective antidote to bureaucracy (the corporate equivalent of arthritis), the network has arrived as the organizational structure for a globalizing, post-modern world… The persistence of the Al Qaeda network in the face of unrelenting pressure is a case in point."

- Richard Tiplady, a church-planting strategist, in a paper presented at a conference organised by All Nations Christian College (September 2003) on 'Survive or Thrive? Is there a future for the mission agency?'
The irony is inescapable. Taking a leaf out of what Tiplady calls "Al Qaeda's operational mobility", American missionary organisations are, methodically and very scientifically, planting the Church and recruiting disciples, pincer-style. With George W Bush, a "born again" Christian as the President of United States, the missionary enterprise is in full gear, trying to "save (Indian) souls" and "reach the unreached".

The modus operandi for evangelical activities is simple, even if scary: Channel exorbitant funds through the eager Bush administration; circumvent the Indian law banning registration of new missionaries by sending "men of God" on tourist visas; use Indians already converted to convert fresh faithfuls. And yes, the underlying message: work relentlessly and patiently.
Indian missionaries now do 90 percent of the work in founding churches. All these missionaries are from the new age churches, most of whom owe allegiance to the Protestant sect. The fast springing new age churches are not only making inroads into memberships of other religions, but are also threatening the very existence of the mainline congregations, e.g. the Roman Catholic church.

Operation Worldwide
Local Indian missionaries are effective conversion weapons because they understand the language, the customs and the culture. Besides, the recently converted are often more zealous about adding to the ranks. A voluminous book title Operation World-published by the Christian missionaries' UK-based publishing house, Operation Mission-reveals the rapid strides made by the US-funded evangelical missions in India. The references to India can be found from page 273 onwards. Of the many shocking revelations in the book is the claim that Arunachal Pradesh is on its way to becoming the third Christian majority state in India, after Nagaland and Mizoram. In 1971 the Christian population totalled 0.8 percent of its population, and within a decade, it increased to 10 percent. In fact, the author of this book, well-known evangelical strategist Patrick Johnstone, says, "thirty percent of India's Dalits are considering a change of religion, and a growing number are finding Jesus."

So how do the converts find Jesus? In India, one of the most successful church planting networks is Operation Agape ('unconditional love' in Greek), which began in 1995 in central India as an "experiment" devised by Germany-based church strategist Wolfgang Simson and his Indian collaborator, Dr Alexander Abraham, professor of neurology and head of community heath department, Christian Medical College, Ludhiana. Its predecessor was the project of Prince of Peace, launched on January 1, 1989.
By the mid-1990s, when "spying missions" were despatched to India by US-based transnational missionary organisations (TMOs), it was part of the larger conversion mission, AD2000 and Joshua Project. Abraham's commentary in a film produced by Agape reveals that "by the mid-1990s, a growing realisation for the need for a systematic church planting effort covering the entire state was gaining momentum. We held a systematic grassroots level harvest force research in 1998 and the results were an eye-opener for us. There were 262 pin code areas in Punjab without any churches in 1998. In the next three years, however, all the 491 postal code areas in the state gained entry into the church map." This was possible due to the research and survey conducted by Brother Issac Dutta, research coordinator, Punjab, Operation Agape. "God gave me the burden of Punjab in 1997. I started my research in 1997. My team and I visited 1,100 Christian workers in the whole of Punjab, collecting data from them on who was working in different villages, blocks and districts," Dutta explained.

The North India Harvest Network, also started by Abraham, used the 'Pin Code survey' conducted by the Indian Missions Association, Chennai, to generate ethno-graphic data in the North Indian states. The data has armed the US intelligence agencies for they now have unparalleled access to the remotest corners of India and are-again, pincer like-bringing areas into "the fold" by secretly unleashing pastors in different blocks and districts.

Operation Agape has, for example, been instrumental in producing over 3,000 'house-churches' in Madhya Pradesh in the last six years. Their conversion figure stands at a record number of "60,000 to 70,000" converts. "Our methods have become a model for churches all across India," says Abraham. "The house-church movement does not strive for buildings. We do not believe in buildings. Traditional churches are dying. The Anglican church in England is dying. The house-church movement is the spirit of God. Ludhiana is a city where the church has done really well. Now we are dreaming of a church in every colony. Fifty percent colonies in Ludhiana and 60 percent villages in Punjab have churches now," he told Tehelka.

Planting churches in India
Operation Agape is supported by Christian Aid, a US-based conversion-funding agency, run by Rev Bob Finley, a loyal supporter of President Bush. The mission headquarters of this operation is Agape Bhawan, located within the Christian Medical College in Ludhiana. Abraham was extremely evasive about answering questions on Operation Agape, but a video CD produced by AGAPE foundation, which is in Tehelka's possession, is explicit about the movement.

The film on Operation Agape interviews Rev C George, who claims to have begun the church planting movement in Punjab: "I had great concern for Punjab…Then the Lord very definitely, specifically asked me to go to the state of Punjab and do whatever possible so that the people will come to know that Operation Blue Star or Operation Black Thunder did not help, but operation of God's love will be the solution to the problem of Punjab."

Simply put, the strategy is to plant a church in every village and urban colony and notch up a figure of 100,000 churches in the state by 2010. "We cannot say we have any challenge here because Punjab is open. All religions are respected and we can go freely to everybody. The most difficult states to evangalise are Madhya Pradesh and Chhattisgarh because extremist Hindus are there," says Simon P George, manager, Punjab Bible College, Hiran (near Ludhiana).

According to Alexander's own admission, the church planting movement is making rapid strides in Jammu & Kashmir, Himachal Pradesh, Uttar Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, Orissa, Delhi, Gujarat, Rajasthan, Andhra Pradesh, Maharashtra and Uttaranachal. The North India Harvest Network has launched Operation Rose of Sharon in J&K. Pastor training centres have been opened in Jammu and Srinagar. "The Lord has given J&K good workers and we know that He will lead the way," says Timothy, who is Operation Agape's J&K coordinator.

However, unlike in J&K, where Operation Agape has deployed 60 "good workers", in the neighbouring state of Himachal Pradesh, the slogan of "a church for every district, a church for every block, a church for every village people group by the year 2010" is still a slogan. Sam Abraham, a research coordinator with Operation Agape, says that in 1996, detailed research was carried out at the behest of US TMOs, but Himachal remains the "darkest state of India with the least percentage of Christians."

The only success story from HP is from Kinnaur district. Till 1994, there were neither believers nor any churches in this district. "Today there are 180 churches in this district alone with more than 6,000 believers. It has been very successful because of the tools and training they provide for church planters," says Randeep Mathew, Operation Agape's Himachal coordinator.

"They" are Operation Agape's American benefactors. There is another US-based organisation that is heavily involved in Himachal and other north Indian states. Gospel for Asia has planted a network of churches in North India called the Believers Church. Like true believers, they plod along, introducing new tools when necessary. Like Pastor Prakash Abraham of Believers Church told Tehelka: "We now have a Kangri radio programme broadcast at 6:15 on Saturday and Sunday mornings on 49Mhz (short wave). The use of modern media, like film projectors, e-mails and websites have tremendously increased our capacity to carry out evangelical activities."

Reaching all pockets
What is shocking is Pastor Prakash's admission that "some of the organisers (of Gospel For Asia) have set up their own radio broadcasting networks to reach the 'unreached' in different Himachali dialects. Operation Agape, too, has an evangelical radio programme that reaches areas difficult for pastors to access. If there are two organisations-Agape and Believers Church-working in the same state, it is not by accident. Territories have been neatly divided and the American TMOs are ensuring through their Indian outfits that there is no duplication of efforts in the task of the Great Commission. If Agape is working on conversions in Kinnuar, Believers Church is expanding in Solan. Both these organisations have access to top of the line research information. There is an extra-ordinary level of networking and coordination.

Pastor Abraham, a Malayalee in his early 40s (appointed as the overseer for Himachal Pradesh by Believers Church) came to Solan five years ago and has kept a strict eye on figures. "If we keep the same pace, in 10 years we may even see the Christian population rise to around 25 percent." he says. This would be quite an achievement for- like Haryana-Himachal is what they would call "tough territory." The reasons, in the words of Jagan Mohan Rao, principal of Believers Church, Solan: "Many places are still steeped in traditional tribal ethos and the tribals are animists. But Hinduism has a hold on them. They practice popular Hinduism."
Pastor Abraham is upbeat as well. "Four years ago, the Christian populace in HP was 0.9 percent in a population of 60 lakh. Now, unofficial estimates tell us that about 2 percent have accepted Christian faith. This is a significant increase. But most of them are not openly saying they are Christian," Pastor Abraham admitted to Tehelka. What they are working together to ensure are the numbers.

Richard Howell, general secretary, Evangelical Fellowship, describes this networked activity: "It's like making tea. Somebody brings in the water, another gets the milk and the third brings in tea leaves. The fourth brings in sugar and the fifth brews it." Emboldened by Bush's faith-based presidency, the TMOs running for network partnerships have acquired an urgency. There is a statement doing the rounds: "If we don't hang together, we will be hanged separately. Therefore, lets hang together," says Howell.

The US TMOs have adopted this approach because of two reasons: the ability to deploy local missionaries easily and in large numbers. The second: partnerships reduce overhead expenses. Jagan Mohan Rao, Principal of Believers Bible College, Solan-which is also the nerve centre of the Believers Church in Himachal-says that Bible colleges across North India are churning out well-educated church planters who then join the burgeoning ranks of US TMOs operating in India. "We run the biggest bible school in HP," he told Tehelka.

The demand for church planters is increasing, as is the pressure to meet conversion targets set by the US TMOs. Despite, the sluggishness of the conversion activities in Himachal, Rao says that "approximately a few thousand" have been converted. "Two years ago we had only five missionaries, but within two years their number increased to twenty-two. Coming year [referring to 2004] a new batch will graduate from our college. In addition, 20 new students will enrol this year." The Believers Church Bible college in Solan churns out 20 well-trained church planters every year, all locals. Across India, the Believers Church runs 200 Bible colleges. "Our main motto is evangelisation. After training, we send out the students to different parts of north India, especially to Punjab and Himachal Pradesh," says Simon George, manager, Punjab Bible College, Hiran.

The best way to reach Indians is to show them an Indian preaching the Gospel. So, the converted have become the converters. The flexibility that new missionary strategies offer has enabled missionaries from India and the US to team up. The volatile expansion of Indian missionaries not only adds numbers to the effort; it also cuts costs drastically. According to Christian Aid, a foreign missionary costs at least $66,000 or Rs 30.4 lakh a year to support. Native missionaries cost approximately $600 or Rs 27,600 a year. The running expenses for Believers Church Bible college in Solan is Rs 2 lakh a month. The Believers Church pays Rs 5,000 a month to an Indian missionary with a family in Himachal Pradesh. The North Indian Christian Mission-which carries out conversions in Punjab, Haryana, Rajasthan and J&K-pays its missionaries Rs 10,000 a month.

Fund collectors in the US-like Rev Jim Rutz, founder of Open Church Ministries, Colorado Springs-solicit funds through vigorous writing campaigns. In his article, 'Where Should Your Offerings Go Now?' he writes: "House-church planters are ridiculously under funded, often walking long distances just because they don't have bicycles or mopeds. What a waste of trained talent!" The Open Church Ministries is one such missionary organisation that works in tandem with Christian Aid, Charlottesville, Virginia, to collect funds for evangelical operations in India. "The bottom line: mopeds are $700-900. Bicycles are $40. Gospel literature is very cheap. Every dollar works overtime in India. Will you consider the work in Madhya Pradesh as part of your new pattern of giving?" This is the message that goes out to American churchgoers. In the US, contributors can directly fund evangelical operations in India through Christian Aid Mission by marking their cheque for "Operation Agape, Madhya Pradesh". All such contributions are tax-free.

Foreign funding
Though foreign funding to missionary organisations should technically be reported to the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) under the FCRA (Foreign Contribution Regulation Act), it is likely that such funds are under-reported. "Every organisation is receiving foreign funds," says Rao. "Lots of foreign funds are coming in right now. Approximately 75 percent of our activity is foreign funded. If foreign funding stops, the movement can also stop.

According to MHA figures, the funding for Christian mission agencies have shown a regular increase. Also, over 80 percent of the voluntary organisations receiving foreign funds are Christian Mission agencies. (see Table-Religious Organisations registered under FCRA)

What should have by now been picked up by the government is the fact that only a fraction of the total money flowing into the country is reported. (see www.tehelka.com for a detailed funding list). "They (funds) do not come here directly. There are many different offices in South India. The funds come directly to those offices and from there it is distributed. For example, funds meant for Himachal Pradesh pastors are forwarded from offices in AP, Tamil Nadu and Kerala," Rao told Tehelka. Apart from TMOs, Christian NGOs are also part of this network. For instance, World Vision, the world's largest Christian NGO ministry, fuses evangelical activities with development work. "World Vision is mainly focusing on social work. Through social work, they are doing an excellent job. Through social work they are able to share the Gospel," says Rao.

Sharing the Gospel is a sunrise industry in India. It has attracted Christian professionals from all walks of life. Some are short-term missionaries and many have given up on their professional lives to engage in evangelism. These missionaries are called the 'tentmakers'.

Joseph Vijayam, a tentmaker and CEO of Olive Technology in Hyderabad, believes that a secular Christian missionary worker is important because he helps the Gospel transcend "socio-cultural or political barriers. He also helps take the Gospel across what may be called the poverty barrier." In an article titled 'Kingdom Business', he cites Mahatma Gandhi: "Recall Gandhi's famous saying, 'To the hungry man, bread is God'."

If bread is God, can his call go unanswered? The former director of Christian Medical College, Ludhiana, Dr Victor Choudhrie, gave up his prestigious job along with his wife Bindu Choudhrie, also a doctor, to take up the reins of the Operation Agape ministry in Central India. Choudhrie is considered to be the pioneer of house-church movement in India. "New house-churches are coming up. Prayer groups are being formed and Bible society groups are being set up. India needs to be bathed in Holy Spirit. So the eyes and ears are open, so people can hear the gospel and their hearts can be changed," Choudrie says.
His special focus is Uttar Pradesh. The goal of the Agape movement in UP is the same as in Punjab: one million house-churches and 100,000 church leaders by 2010. With a population of over 174 million people, UP has a miniscule population of Christians: 0.1 percent. "I look at the UP mission simply as a model for what can be done… together we can start such a powerful movement inspired by the Holy Spirit to take this nation within our generation," says brother Mohan Phillip of AGAPE UP mission.

Exposing the church planters
Tehelka's undercover operation resulted in the unearthing of many church planters. Rev Don Scribner of the US-based Joshua Project revealed that Dr Raju Abraham coordinates the North India Harvest Network from Delhi and is also in charge of Operation Agape's Uttar Pradesh mission. He strategised the evangelical operations in UP by dividing the whole state into 83 districts, 1,000 administrative blocks each with 100,000 to 150,000 people and 100 to 150 villages. "A team of two persons adopt each block. The state is witnessing an unprecedented woo of God and thousands of churches are being planted." The goal, of course, is the same as has been outlined for all the North Indian states.

Muthu Govendar, a missionary from South Africa, affirms that thousands of grass roots level leaders are being trained at Bible schools across the North Indian states. "I have been here from 1999 and I really went to every corner of Punjab. I met the people, I met all the pastors, I met the churches and I saw the Believers. I ministered in every corner of Punjab." Govendar must consider himself lucky because foreign missionaries are not given visas by the Indian government. In response to an unstarred question (Number 969) in the Lok Sabha on February 27, 2001, the minister of state (Home) Vidyasagar Rao, responded that according to the data available as on December 31, 1999, the "total number of foreign missionaries registered in India are 1,375. He said "no new missionaries are allowed after 1984. However, short term visas are being issued to foreigners who are coming only in administrative capacity, to review working of their organisations etcetera."

Nityanandan, a Sri Lankan missionary who has been active in India since 1998, admitted to Tehelka that foreign missionaries do come to India on tourist visas. He even volunteered information about the arrest of a US missionary, Joseph W Cooper, in Kerala for evangelical activities. Not too worried about meeting the same fate, he was candid, saying: "We need to usher Jesus into the scene. We know this country … it is oppressed by Satanic powers and spirits. Demonincally… people are being bound. Many are demonically possessed. It is so hard to penetrate to the Gospel. Our plan is to teach and build every believer to be an intercessor."
Like Nityananda, many foreign missionaries have criss-crossed Indian states in the last three years. Tehelka's investigation has revealed that visiting US missionaries have personally ministered conversion rituals in various parts of the country. In the course of its undercover operation, Tehelka came across conversions being carried out by the North Indian Christian Mission (NICM) in rural Punjab. Pastor Deepak Dhingra, a Punjabi pastor, has 20 evangelists in the field and runs the NICM through them. He admits that every year foreign missionaries meet him and visit the places where NICM is active.

Clad in a blue T-shirt, track pants and a baseball cap on his head, Dhingra was sprawled in the expansive living room of his bungalow in Panchkula near Chandigarh. Five servants hovered around him as he recounted his story to Tehelka. Twenty-six years ago, Dhingra converted to Christianity. He claims that his father, an IAS officer, asked him to leave home and died without seeing his son's first child, a daughter. Dhingra, of course, had other plans: "I moved to Australia, Canada, US, New Zealand… thinking that now I am a Christian, I should go and live in Christian countries. When I lived in USA, my wife and I decided that those countries are not for us. We returned to India six years ago from America. Then we started preaching amongst all kinds of people." Dhingra, has three kids and his wife, Simmi, is from a Sikh family.

Dhingra's journey back to India, however, was not the result of an innocuous decision. He and his family returned in 1997 along with a juicy partnership with a benevolent patron, the US (Indiana) based Eastview Christian Church. He runs the North Indian Christian Mission (NICM), which has an aggressive church planting strategy to build its church in every district over the next few years. But he knows it's a tough ask. NICM is active in Haryana, Punjab, Himachal Pradesh and Jammu and Kashmir.

Conversion is risky business, and Dhingra has survived murderous assaults. The last one was eight months ago in Rajpura, Punjab, during a conversion convention. But the faithful are not deterred. It is not easy business, and while some states are slow in yielding results, there are others that are far more responsive. Abraham told Tehelka categorically and it's on tape: "In Andhra Pradesh, hundreds of Muslims are coming to the Lord. Islam does not appeal to their mind, especially after September 11." Operation Agape's estimate is that across India, "150 million Dalits and around 150 million from the other backward castes (OBC) are coming to the Lord."

The Dalit angle
According to Abraham, the social oppression institutionalised in the Hindu society is the main reason why Dalits converts. "Now they are becoming educated. They are becoming conscious of their rights mainly because of the Christian influence. These people have now started questioning the hierarchical system in Hinduism and are actually literally rejecting it. The high castes have been treating them as slaves. They [the higher castes] don't want them to be educated. They do not want them [Dalits] to come up in society. There are so many atrocities against Dalits in India. There is a revolt and there are quite a number of Dalits who have mentally rejected Hinduism," Abraham told Tehelka. But the Dalits are part of the conspiracy to keep silent. "They [Dalits] know if they all suddenly become Christian, there were would be a backlash," says Alexander.

However, Christian missionaries are deeply conscious of playing the numbers game. Richard Howell, general secretary, Evangelical Fellowship of India told Tehelka that the church growth has been substantial in North India. "I am against the number game. Giving projections in terms of numbers in dangerous," he says. "But the reality is that the numbers are increasing," says Howell.
According to him, the rich and the educated are also converting to Christianity. "It is a change of heart. We are not here to change culture. We have to change the heart. I am a Hindu. I was born a Hindu. No one can change my Hindutva, but I am a Christ follower. I am a Christian, but I cannot change my religion, you know. I am not here to change religion. I have changed my heart. Before I had Wahe Guru in my heart, now it is Jesus guru. I am preaching Jesus to others. I am not preaching culture. I am not building churches," explains Pastor Dhingra. "We need to reach out to the top people of this country. The day Chandigarh's governor or SSP or DSP come to know the Lord, thousands will become Christians. In my satsang, we have a doctor, a police inspector, an IAS officer," he adds.

But it is not the rich that the Indian evangelicals are targeting. The conversion of the rich to Christianity is a bonus. The colonial model that once served Christian missionaries from Europe and the United States has disappeared, replaced by an attitude of cultural sensitivity. The world of missionaries is not as easily divided as it once was into those who spend their time proclaiming the Gospel and those who are involved in social work, disseminating their beliefs more by deeds than by words.

According to the Evangelical Fellowship of India (EFI), "the 300 million Dalits in India are considered to be less than human through the Hindu caste system. They have been oppressed, marginalised, and persecuted by the caste Hindus. The Dalit leadership has called the people to reject Hinduism. As Christians, we support the movement [to convert] as a human rights issue," Howell states. "People have the freedom to choose. We are in solidarity with them because this is an issue of justice and of resisting oppression. As God's people we stand with the issues of equality of justice, human dignity, identity, and the right to be treated with respect and equality. Therefore the church is involved."

The EFI says that the Dalit leadership has invited its member churches to become "agents of change and transformation in the communities. They've asked for education needs to be met, for medical help and for income generation projects to enable gainful employment to begin. Therefore, as evangelicals, we have mobilised our member bodies. As believers who belong to the Evangelical Fellowship of India we are involved heavily in this moment." The EFI is a member of US-based World Evangelical Fellowship (WEF). Through its network of 115 national and regional evangelical fellowships, WEF represents 160 million evangelicals worldwide and spearheads the global conversion campaign.

Missionaries are also finding that some of the traditional mindsets need to change if they are to meet the challenges of a new millennium. Most Christian missionaries no longer go out into the world as Christian soldiers, but as "brothers and sisters in Christ." Many modern missionaries feel a sense of guilt about the heavy-handed tactics employed for centuries by missionaries from Europe and the United States. Indian evangelists have played a crucial role in influencing a rethinking about "the words, metaphors and images evangelicals use to communicate about the missionary mandate and endeavour-within our own circles and to the world at large."

Biblical metaphors
Howell was one of the participants at the US Consultation on Mission Language and Metaphors at the School of World Mission, Fuller Theological Seminary, held from June 1 to 3, 2000. At this consultation, leading US evangelicals who head missionary transnational corporations, decided that they must try to refrain from using militaristic words to avoid adversarial confrontation. The statement that emerged out of this consultation was an admission of the kind of communication that missionaries have used and still use to denigrate other religions. The question that was debated by Howell and others was: "Are we willing not to use language behind the back of unbelievers concerning their culture and location that we would not use face to face in sharing the message and love of Christ?"

Three months after this meeting, a statement was issued by Howell and Dr Augustine Pagolu, Honorary Secretary of the Theological Commission of the Evangelical Fellowship of India, at a national consultation on Mission Language and Biblical Metaphor at South Asia Institute of Advanced Christian Studies, Bangalore. Representatives of all the evangelical organisations in India attended it.
Yet, Tehelka came across an excessive use of warfare terminologies during its undercover field investigations and in the documents in its possession. Words such as 'soldier', 'advance', 'mobilise', 'campaign', 'conquer' and so on are commonly used. In fact, the literature of the American TMOs use descriptions that could be considered incendiary by people of other faiths. For instance, Bush's closest ally, Pat Robertson, has described Hinduism and Islam as Satanic religions and the worship of these religions is akin to 'devil worship'. Others have described Varanasi as the "seat of Satan." In fact, Varanasi is considered an important 'beachhead' by US evangelical organisations because it is "India's holiest cities".

Eventually, the EFI hopes that Indian and foreign missionaries will come up with a less offensive language as it takes the cross to the remotest corners in India. What gives dynamism to this movement is the constant effort to rethink strategies.

The US-funded evangelical missions have succeeded in putting in place a loosely tied network of Indian and international evangelical missions that operate with their blessings and support, but which cannot be easily traced directly back to them. Probably, it is this loose structure that has enabled the US-funded evangelical missions to operate in India, without attracting attention of the intelligence and police agencies.

It is the setting up of this network that facilitated the launch of the Great Commission in India, nearly 2000 years after Jesus challenged His church to make disciples of all nations. The inspiration was more akin to the times-Coca Cola's well-publicised goal to place "a Coke in the hand of every person on the earth by the year 2000." If a mere corporation could reach the entire world with a soft drink, why couldn't Christ's own church?

Census figures show that the total Christian population in the country is still a miniscule percentage of its total population: around 2.46 percent. That, legitimately, raises the questions about the efficacy of the pernicious and enormously well-funded missions to proselytise the marginalised sections of Indians. It raises a far important question: is the heat and dust raised by the issue of conversions a bogey after all? The answer is provided by People India Research and Training Institute in Ayanavaram, Chennai. "There are approximately 5,000 Indian people coming to Christ everyday. However, 55,000 Indians are born everyday." This assertion by People India is made on the basis of its continuous streaming in of field research information from all over India.
The massive evangelisation operations, which started in the early 1990s has, in fact, not breached this equation; the ever-increasing Indian population has ensured that the total Christian population remains more or less stagnant. But statistics have a way of being duplicitous. It can be twisted to suit any perspective.

Low-profile campaigns
But Mission agencies working in the Dalit pockets of India have been instructed not to tom-tom numbers. Simply because number crunching could result in retaliatory violence by the Hindu fundamentalists. This realisation came after the brutal murder of Australian missionary Graham Staines in the late 1990s.

Even as Indian missionaries play down numbers, People India produces books and generates crucial intelligence evangelists working in India. People India is a registered "Christian, trans-denominational research group serving Indian missions and churches in publishing current data on the Indian mission field." It is the resource base for Indian and foreign churches, transna-tional evangelical missions and intercessors. Its mandate is to do the following: "To systematically collect information on the Indian harvest field, harvest force and people groups; to make this information available to Indian missions and churches in a useable form; to share this information with individual and prayer groups (an euphemism for evangelical groups) inside and outside India; to make India visible to all."

Tehelka has copies of the Harvest Field Handbooks written by Tony Hilton, director of People India and a well-known evangelical strategist. The information in these books is sourced from various government of India publications and is updated regularly. By breaking down publicly available information (like the Census of India and The Gazetteer of India and many other sources), these books guide evangelists on where to focus their work. It has ready-to-use-information at the levels of village, block and district for all the states in the country. Here is an extract on 'Strategy' from a Harvest Field Series handbook for Himachal Pradesh:"A Western support team must never pre-determine the needs of the People Group and create a plan or programme based on those perceived needs. After doing the necessary research, it will always be most effective to work with the national leader, or a team of leaders from within that People Group to set a plan or programme they approve and can participate in." (Here, 'national leader' refers to a Dalit community leader or tribal leader, in other words, the headman of a community).

The crucial point here is that People India is guided and funded by US based Christian Missionary organisations. For instance, by Bob Waymire, president of Light International; John DeVries, president of Mission 21 India and founder of Pray India; and Dr Gene Davis, President of Foreign Mission Foundation. Davis is popular with the Banjara nomadic tribe of India. The Banjaras call him Gene Naik. He has 'adopted' the 'Banjara people group' for many years. In other words, he is spearheading a campaign to convert the Banjaras to Christianity. Tehelka has a document that vividly highlights the evangelical strategy to convert the Banjaras. Sri Lankan missionary Nityanandan of the Insititute of Church Growth, Chennai, corroborates: "Last year in the Banjara community 11,000, baptisms took place in Nalagonda, Kamam and Krishna districts in Andhra Pradesh."

Intelligence gathering network
In fact, according to the documents in Tehelka's possession, foreign missionaries have played a stellar role in organising the intelligence gathering missions. Vander Berg, co-director of Pray India and Mission analyst with Mission 21 India, has wide "missionary experience" in India and has worked as a pastor in many places. Another notable Christian scholar, an Australian who has married an Indian, is credited with having turned around two US-based evangelical mission agencies-Frontier Mission Center and Youth With A Mission-into formidable research organisations. Hackworth is considered within the international and Indian Christian evangelical circles as the "only man who knows all the Peoples Groups of India at the district level."

After setting up such an elaborate network, church groups in India are understandably disappointed over a recent Supreme Court ruling (September 1, 2003) that there was "no fundamental right to convert" someone from one religion to another, and that the government could impose restrictions on conversions. This was in response to the petition by the All India Christian Council (AICC), challenging the validity of the controversial Freedom of Religion Act that became law in Orissa in 1999.

The law now mandates that a person wanting to change faiths has to declare to the district magistrate that this decision was made "of his own will". The magistrate then forwards the declaration to the police to see if there is any objection before permission for the conversion is granted. Any religious leader intending to perform a conversion has to indicate the time and place of the ceremony to the magistrate in advance, and violating any of the regulations could lead to imprisonment and a fine. In fact, last year Sister Ekka was convicted for converting 96 people without following the procedure laid down by law. Most missionaries, however, simply proceed without informing the district authorities.

I think that this is curbing the liberties of an individual, the natural rights, the unalienable as they are called. The government or the state cannot control my convictions. That's a matter of personal choice, which should never be taken away. So I would also say, the freedom of religion Bills, the focus is against the scheduled castes and the scheduled tribes. In the Gujarat Bill and also in the Tamil Nadu Bill they have used the word. So the target is again the marginalised and the poor for them to stay there," says Howell.
Conversion is a highly sensitive issue in some parts of India, including Orissa, where in recent years Christians have been victims of violence, including arson attacks, and two missionaries have been slain. Australian missionary Graham Stuart Staines and his two sons were burnt alive in January 1999. Later, the Rev Arul Doss, a Roman Catholic priest in the Balasore diocese, was killed in a remote region. Howell explains that the violence against Christians is because the "the church is empowering the poor."
The reality is that India's marginalised communities are indeed powerless. Independent India has failed to empower Dalits and tribals. The church has stepped in to provide them development services, which really fall within the government of India's ambit.
But conversions in India, as they are happening today, are not merely about empowering the poor. It is about a sinister and subversive strategy, hatched in the US, backed by the Bush administration over the years.

The question is: does the Indian establishment know or is it pretending not to?
darshhan
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by darshhan »

^^Ramay ji , I have x-posted in future strategic scenario thread.
abhishek_sharma
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by abhishek_sharma »

From the Urdu Press
Meeting the BJP

According to a November 6 report in the daily Inquilab, published from Mumbai, Delhi, Lucknow, Kanpur and Bareilly, the Amir (chief) of the Jamaat-e-Islami, Maulana Jalaluddin Umri, has said that “the Jamaat has no objection to a dialogue with the Bharatiya Janata Party, as political talks are imperative for solving the problems of Muslims. Unless we hold dialogues with political parties about our needs in a comprehensive manner, they will not be able to appreciate our serious problems.”

According to the report, Umri told reporters in New Delhi that “we do not have to be concerned at the recent meeting of (the Shia leader) Maulana Kalbe Sadiq with the former RSS chief, K. Sudarshan. Muslims can never accept the RSS and, therefore, Maulana Kalbe Sadiq’s meeting with the RSS chief was based on his personal opinion.”

“Jamaat-e-Islami is not a political organisation, but it does have a political message... The Jamaat has decided to take serious steps regarding Muslims’ issues, including reservations, action on the recommendations of the Ranganath Mishra Commission, and the anti-communal violence bill. We will try to persuade the parties to chart special plans for improvements in the present political, educational and economic conditions of Muslims, among other things,” Umri said, according to the report.


On Justice Katju

Justice Katju, of the Press Council, has found many cheerleaders in the Urdu press. The daily Sahafat, published from Mumbai, Delhi, Lucknow and Dehradun, in its November 2 editorial, says that it is almost impossible to differ with him on his statement about the “standards of journalism and journalists (most journalists being not fully oriented to the complexities of literature, economics, political science and philosophy)”. The paper says that those shortcomings are seen not only in English and Hindi and some other languages; “the situation is worse in Urdu journalism.”

Hyderabad’s leading daily, Munsif, in its editorial titled ‘Media’s enmity with Muslims’, writes: “It cannot be denied that Justice Katju has caught the media out (dukhti rag par haath rakha hai). His criticism of the anti-Muslim attitude of the media is right. Most of channels are owned by so-called secular persons/organisations or those associated with communal elements and their allies. In such a situation, how can one expect a non-partisan approach from the media?”

A commentary in Inquilab, on November 6, titled, ‘Haan! yeh sahafat naheen hai, Editor sahib!’ (‘Yes, this not journalism, Mr Editor!’), argues: “Today, the pain of every serious and accomplished mediaperson is exactly as Justice Katju has stated. They themselves express anxiety in the same words, at the infiltration of ‘illiterates’ in the media and a flood of elements in the media devoid of journalistic honour (sahafat ki akhlaqiyaat say aari) and the dim future of journalism. We can, at best, tell the Press Council chief not to use the same stick for everyone (ek hi laathi say sab ko naa haankein).”

The Fixers of Cricket

The daily Inquilab, in its November 5 editorial titled ‘Pakistan cricket: Doob marney ka muqaam’ (‘Pakistan cricket: extreme shamelessness’), writes: “We should remember that match-fixing is an old ailment of Pakistani cricket, proved by the fact that four inquiry commissions have been appointed, and have submitted reports for diagnosing and treating it... Experts say that if action had been taken on those recommendations, it would have at least resulted in the creation of a sense of accountability among players.”

On the same day, Rashtriya Sahara, in its editorial titled ‘Gentleman’s game, phir daaghdaar’ (‘Gentleman’s game scarred again’), writes: “It is almost impossible to put an end to the evil of fixing merely by punishing a few cricketers. If viewed closely, cricketers are only a weak link in the chain of fixing. Those really involved operate from behind the curtain, and they compel cricketers from different countries to commit the crime of fixing by luring or threatening cricketers, officials or umpires. These big fish are still out of reach.”

Sahafat, in its November 4 editorial, writes: “In any case, one positive aspect has come out: the Pakistani media and its eminent cricketers have, instead of blaming the court and criticising its jury, undertaken some self-introspection and made efforts towards self-accountability.”
Aditya_V
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Aditya_V »

abhishek_sharma wrote:From the Urdu Press


On Justice Katju

Justice Katju, of the Press Council, has found many cheerleaders in the Urdu press.

Hyderabad’s leading daily, Munsif, in its editorial titled ‘Media’s enmity with Muslims’, writes: “It cannot be denied that Justice Katju has caught the media out (dukhti rag par haath rakha hai). His criticism of the anti-Muslim attitude of the media is right. Most of channels are owned by so-called secular persons/organisations or those associated with communal elements and their allies. In such a situation, how can one expect a non-partisan approach from the media?”
Indian Media- I.e NDTV, CNN_IBN etc. are considered as anti-Muslim, what does the Urdu press wants for them not ben considered as anti-muslim??
sum
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by sum »

^^ After every attack, blame RSS/evil Hindus and print sob stories when the actual perps turn out to be from "particular community".

Also, keep replaying Gujarat riots story every alternate day
devesh
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by devesh »

they already do that. no, the thing they don't do is run ads every 5 minutes advocating for Hindus to adopt Islam's peaceful ways and become Allah's faithful. when there are channels that do that, the Islamist power centers will be happy.
Pratyush
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pratyush »

UPA-2’s mid-term report: C+

What will it take for the UPA to get F grade??
Aditya_V
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Aditya_V »

Pratyush wrote:UPA-2’s mid-term report: C+

What will it take for the UPA to get F grade??
Disband NAC and rollback some of their flawed proPak policies along with cutting funding to the media.
Sanku
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Sanku »

Pratyush wrote:UPA-2’s mid-term report: C+

What will it take for the UPA to get F grade??
The following section is the Key, Congress today is for all intents are purposes, Muslim League of 1940s
Just over 426 million Indians voted in the 2009 Lok Sabha elections. That amounted to 59.70% of India’s 714 million eligible voters. Out of these, 119 million voted for the Congress. And of these 119 million Congress votes, more than 55 million votes came from an estimated 105 million eligible Muslim voters. Without the Muslim vote, the Congress might have been hard pressed to win 120 seats in the Lok Sabha in 2009.
Pratyush
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pratyush »

^^^

I saw those figures, the sad fact is that unless the UP elections are through, we will never know what will happen in 2014. If the Kangress gets wiped out in UP. They will be be wiped out in 2014 as well. But if they win UP then you will have a UPA 3 as well.
Pratyush
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pratyush »

Aditya_V wrote:
Disband NAC and rollback some of their flawed proPak policies along with cutting funding to the media.
I don't catch your drift
Sanku
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Sanku »

Pratyush wrote:^^^

I saw those figures, the sad fact is that unless the UP elections are through, we will never know what will happen in 2014. If the Kangress gets wiped out in UP. They will be be wiped out in 2014 as well. But if they win UP then you will have a UPA 3 as well.
That was country wide data, needless to say, this is not uniformly distributed but really concentrated in a few places.

In UP its even worse, pretty much all votes for Congress in UP is from a certain community. Almost ALL. (as of now)

For better or for worse, they will continue voting Congress. They vote against Congress only if a purer and stronger vehicle comes around.

Since Maulana Mulayam is history -- expect them to vote for a party which speaks their language.

In UP Congress === Muslim League in 1940s.
Pratyush
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pratyush »

^^^

Well with the communal votes split amongst a dozen parties, If the INC gets a majority of the secular votes as listed in the article above. Then the win for the INC is assured.
Aditya_V
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Aditya_V »

Pratyush wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:
Disband NAC and rollback some of their flawed proPak policies along with cutting funding to the media.
I don't catch your drift
Well no matter how badly this Government does as long its favorable to Media/ JNU left types and their NGO's, it will get positively rated.
As long the Policies favouring vested interests Viz a Viz pakis are concerned they will still get a +ve rating.

Its only when you move to stop the Media/NGO gravy train and Vested Interest policies are you gonna get synced.
Muppalla
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Muppalla »

Sanku wrote:
Pratyush wrote:^^^

I saw those figures, the sad fact is that unless the UP elections are through, we will never know what will happen in 2014. If the Kangress gets wiped out in UP. They will be be wiped out in 2014 as well. But if they win UP then you will have a UPA 3 as well.
That was country wide data, needless to say, this is not uniformly distributed but really concentrated in a few places.

In UP its even worse, pretty much all votes for Congress in UP is from a certain community. Almost ALL. (as of now)

For better or for worse, they will continue voting Congress. They vote against Congress only if a purer and stronger vehicle comes around.

Since Maulana Mulayam is history -- expect them to vote for a party which speaks their language.

In UP Congress === Muslim League in 1940s.

I will not conclude this way yet. However, I hope for it.

The following two are possibilities:
(1) Mulayam as next CM with BJP as runner up, Maya third and INC last
(2) Maya as CM with Mulayam runner up, INC third/fourth and BJP third/fourth

In UP caste and Muslim politics those are the two possibilities. Where is fanne's post? He wrote it very good. However, Congress has a very good plan. They are going with dienasty+muslims+Kurmis (via Beni Prasad Verma) + Ajit Singh. Congress may surprise everyone.
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