Indian Military Aviation

vic · Post by **vic** » 13 Nov 2011 17:55

HAL has not been able to get its MLH project off the ground, so import is king!

srai · Post by **srai** » 14 Nov 2011 01:01

Austin wrote:More orders for Mi-17 for IAF

India set to buy 59 more Russian helicopters in $1 bln deal

India is close to finalizing a second contract with Russia for another 59 Mi-17V-5 tactical transport helicopters after the phased delivery of the first 80 of these choppers began this fall, The Times of India reported on Sunday.

"The 59 more Mi-17s, which will cost around $1 billion, will be ordered under the follow-on clause in the first contract. They will also be weaponized for combat operations like the first 80," the paper said, referring to a well-informed source.

In November, India took the delivery of the first batch of 80 Mi-17V-5 helicopters ordered under a $1.345 billion deal in 2008.

A senior official at the Indian Defense Ministry confirmed to RIA Novosti that India was negotiating the purchase of an additional 59 helicopters from Russia.

"The negotiations are, indeed, going on. Possibly, a contract on the delivery of this additional batch of Mi-17 helicopters will be signed already this financial year, i.e. before March 31, 2012," he said

Looks like IAF will have around 226 Mi-17 helicopters by around 2018.

47 x Mi-17 (ordered ~1986)
40 x Mi-17IV (ordered ~2000)
80 x Mi-17V-5 (ordered ~2008)
59 x Mi-17V-5 (ordering ~2012)
--------------------------------------
Total: 226 x Mi-17s

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 14 Nov 2011 01:55

venku_Raj wrote:Concerned Antony asks IAF to take steps to check crashes

Get them new planes first, sir.

With the MMRCA etc attrition will reduce. These aircraft have qualitatively better sensors, flight control, MMI and also twin engines (better against bird hits).

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 14 Nov 2011 01:55

Although this is severely OT here:

Botched Mars mission shows Russian industry troubles

MOSCOW — Russia's unsuccessful launch of a Mars moon probe points up the problems of a once-pioneering space industry struggling to recover after a generation of brain drain and crimped budgets.

Despite improved budgets and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's pledge to restore pride in the sector, the Russian space industry is saddled the legacy of a lost generation of expertise, in many cases obsolete ground equipment and outdated Soviet-era designs.

It is plagued by the same corner cutting, decaying infrastructure and lack of effective quality control that are blamed for frequent disasters across Russia's industries, from coal mine and dam explosions to air crashes.

The Soviet Union began the space age over half a century ago by launching the satellite Sputnik, but Russia has been entirely absent from space beyond Earth's orbit for 20 years, while U.S. probes have voyaged into the farthest reaches of the solar system. Even newcomers India, China and Japan have sent unmanned missions to the moon and beyond

Just goes to say that one cannot rely on the Russkies to deliver on any new tech. innovations both in space as well as MIC. So, its highly imperative that we pursue our independent programs on Fifth gen technologies like AMCA etc rather than hoping that the FGFA program will see fruition and expect deliveries in 2017-2018

Mods please remove if inappropriate in this thread!

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 14 Nov 2011 02:17

http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidZAWYA20111113060621

Interview with Alexei Fedorov, President, IRKUT Corp for Dubai Air Show 2011

Your Corporation has got its recognition worldwide mainly due to Su-30MKI fighter. What are perspectives of its further development?

IRKUT Corp still strongly keeps its position of the supplier of heavy multi-functional fighters to highly competitive foreign markets. Our Su-30MK order book is full up to 2017.

There are good chances to increase it by export and local orders. Next year we plan to sign up a Su-30MKI supply contract with the Russian MoD. This project is being undertaken by us jointly with Sukhoi Design Bureau. Following requirements of the Russian Air Force, a part of on-board systems will be replaces and Russianized.

Besides, we expect big deals on modernization of Su-30MKs delivered long before. So, a program on modernization of the Indian AF Su-30 stable is being prepared. Due to renovation of the on-board systems, the fighter's combat performances will be enhanced considerably.

The Indian Air Force is also interested in expanding the Su-30MKI weaponry with BrahMos supersonic missiles. As a result, a unique weaponry system will come up, capable to fight against combat vessels of all classes.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 14 Nov 2011 02:29

November 11, 2011
Stealth fighters: India and Russia form groundbreaking partnership but US rival tries to muscle in

By James Lamont
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c237788c-0c21 ... z1dcY8CL5h

Fighter pilots who train alongside the their peers in the Indian Air Force (IAF) are left in little doubt of their tactical pedigree.

Indian pilots are among the best in the world, with lightning-sharp reactions and the deft hand-eye co-ordination essential to notch up “kills” in aerial exercises.

High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email [email protected] to buy additional rights. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c237788c-0c21 ... z1dcYyDoRX

However, western counterparts say their instincts are still moulded by Soviet-style training manuals based on mass formations to dominate European airspace dating from the cold war, when the two were close, rather than the freer flight of smaller missions over the Himalayas.

The influence of Russia, which is still India’s largest arms supplier, is unlikely to wane soon.

Forming the bedrock of India’s air strike capabilities are Sukhoi-30MKI and MiG-21 fighter jets. And the country’s military planners are now banking on an Indo-Russian stealth fighter joining their ranks within a decade to match the capabilities of China’s J-20 fighter.

Not good news for the PAF. Excellent IAF pilots with modern fighters, arriving in number!!

And mass formations were used by the USAF as well.

Vietnam War
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To6W_clhevs

Or Desert Storm.

On 19 January, as more than 70 F-16s, along with F-15 escorts and EF-111 and F-4G support, headed toward Baghdad,

http://es.rice.edu/projects/Poli378/Gul ... %20Attacks

IAFs upgraded Mirage 2000s, MiG-29s, Jaguars, MiG-27s, Tejas, Su-30 MKI and MMRCA will all be capable of facing PLAAF and PAF aircraft and inflicting heavy damage to their targets!

Leo.Davidson · Post by **Leo.Davidson** » 14 Nov 2011 03:32

srai wrote: Looks like IAF will have around 226 Mi-17 helicopters by around 2018.

47 x Mi-17 (ordered ~1986)
40 x Mi-17IV (ordered ~2000)
80 x Mi-17V-5 (ordered ~2008)
59 x Mi-17V-5 (ordering ~2012)
--------------------------------------
Total: 226 x Mi-17s

Why is INDIA not going in for licensed production of the Mi-8/17?

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 14 Nov 2011 11:05

Mr Karnad in his recent speech says the swac commander went to russia to find a squadron of backfires painted in iaf livery ready for him to take delivery of after 71? And we didnt take it!

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 14 Nov 2011 11:57

Prasad wrote:Mr Karnad in his recent speech says the swac commander went to russia to find a squadron of backfires painted in iaf livery ready for him to take delivery of after 71? And we didnt take it!

Let alone 71, even now there is not much interest it seems

. 1 sqd should do so very nicely - what with PRC wanting to pump its arsenal of CBGs.

CM

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 14 Nov 2011 12:16

Prasad wrote:Mr Karnad in his recent speech says the swac commander went to russia to find a squadron of backfires painted in iaf livery ready for him to take delivery of after 71? And we didnt take it!

These were likely Blinders, not Backfires. Could be wrong though. Its been many years since I read about this.

Anyways, this "event" happened when the IAF was looking at the Jaguar for its DPSA, and the Russians attempted to bypass that competition by making the IAF a deal it could not refuse. The attache though politely pointed out the IAF's requirements were different and that was that.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 14 Nov 2011 15:01

Prasad wrote:Mr Karnad in his recent speech says the swac commander went to russia to find a squadron of backfires painted in iaf livery ready for him to take delivery of after 71? And we didnt take it!

South Western Air Command was raised in 1980, long after 1971.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 14 Nov 2011 18:58

tsarkar wrote:
Prasad wrote:Mr Karnad in his recent speech says the swac commander went to russia to find a squadron of backfires painted in iaf livery ready for him to take delivery of after 71? And we didnt take it!
South Western Air Command was raised in 1980, long after 1971.

yes but... it was an Operational Group before and any AOC of that group could have been "Swac commander"...

But there are errors in that narrative.. I am sure he meant Air Marshal Shivdev Singh who saw these aircraft. They wernt backfires, but blinders.. and the IAF rejected them as they were not suitable for it mission...this was in the years before 71 when we were getting ready for the war..

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 14 Nov 2011 20:32

I do not know about the accuracies of the actual commander, command or the actual version of the bomber mentioned, they are there in the tapes. However, the thrust of the message was the need for IAF to have a strategic bomber, then and now and IAF's myopism in not getting it. These were available for the taking and that they did be worth it even if the backfires/blinders were expensive to maintain and not without its faults.

He would like the IAF to still get the TU 160 as it is a recallable strategic option.

Added: Jagan, He did say Air Marshal Shivdev Singh and Chandu Gole, who was the test pilot at that time, who later became the swac commander.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 16 Nov 2011 05:41

Former IAF staffer arrested by SIT

HYDERABAD: Special Investigation Team (SIT) sleuths have arrested a former Indian Air Force (IAF) employee who attempted to carryout subversive activities in the city. Mohammed Abbas was arrested in New Delhi.

According to CCS DCP J Satyanarayana, Abbas had served as an air craftsman in the IAF between 1987 and 1993. "While in service, he actively participated in espionage and visited Pakistan five times and Bangladesh once. He also met Pakistani military officials, including the ISI staff, and provided them with sensitive information about the IAF," the DCP said.

Abbas was later arrested by the J&K police under the charges of waging war against the nation. After getting out of jail in 2005, Abbas, using his old contacts, met Mujeeb Ahmed, a Hizbul Mujahideen activist, and an accused in the murder case of additional SP Krishna Prasad in Tolichowki. "The duo hatched a plan to carry out subversive activities in the city and for this purpose Abbas visited Nepal for procuring weapons through the Pakistan embassy," the DCP said.

However, in the meantime, CCS police had arrested Mujeeb Ahmed along with four others in an arms haul case and Mujeeb was given life term by a local court in 2009.

Based on Mujeeb's confession, a case was booked against Abbas under various sections of IPC and Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act (Crime No 786/2005 of SIT). On Tuesday, SIT sleuths got specific information about movement of Abbas in the city and arrested him near Tolichowki. He was remanded in judicial custody.

member_20067 · Post by **member_20067** » 16 Nov 2011 08:01

VinodTK wrote:Former IAF staffer arrested by SIT
HYDERABAD: Special Investigation Team (SIT) sleuths have arrested a former Indian Air Force (IAF) employee who attempted to carryout subversive activities in the city. Mohammed Abbas was arrested in New Delhi.

According to CCS DCP J Satyanarayana, Abbas had served as an air craftsman in the IAF between 1987 and 1993. "While in service, he actively participated in espionage and visited Pakistan five times and Bangladesh once. He also met Pakistani military officials, including the ISI staff, and provided them with sensitive information about the IAF," the DCP said.

Abbas was later arrested by the J&K police under the charges of waging war against the nation. After getting out of jail in 2005, Abbas, using his old contacts, met Mujeeb Ahmed, a Hizbul Mujahideen activist, and an accused in the murder case of additional SP Krishna Prasad in Tolichowki. "The duo hatched a plan to carry out subversive activities in the city and for this purpose Abbas visited Nepal for procuring weapons through the Pakistan embassy," the DCP said.

However, in the meantime, CCS police had arrested Mujeeb Ahmed along with four others in an arms haul case and Mujeeb was given life term by a local court in 2009.

Based on Mujeeb's confession, a case was booked against Abbas under various sections of IPC and Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act (Crime No 786/2005 of SIT). On Tuesday, SIT sleuths got specific information about movement of Abbas in the city and arrested him near Tolichowki. He was remanded in judicial custody.

This whole story seems unreal... is this even true.. ?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Nov 2011 20:05

Folks - apologies for posting this on the "Indian Military Aviation" thread, but it is pertinent to India in terms of how foreign made equipment advertised as "State of the Art" (as the Tornado was, some years ago) could suffer from serious deficiencies in the Indian context.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/15/harriers_saved/

It was pointed out that the Tornado, specifically designed to fly well only at a low level, struggles to operate usefully in Afghanistan where even the base runway is at quite a high altitude. Every Tornado takeoff there is a risky gamble as the jet will not lift off until it is going at 184 mph - but it takes almost all of the runway to achieve this.

Every time a Tornado gets airborne, it passes through a point of no return on the runway after which, if there's a problem, there is no room to brake to a halt and the crew must eject and let the plane wreck itself. This has already happened at least once.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Nov 2011 20:38

its fat body and high wing loading could have something to do with it. likewise the F-18 seems to have struggled in Leh. and the F-16-60+ with its obese elephantine belly might not have been too hot either.

the delta wing low wingloading e-canards, gripen,tejas and F15/pakfa/raptors should not have a problem with this scenario.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 16 Nov 2011 20:59

engine thrust profile based on altitude and temperature should be the more important factor

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 17 Nov 2011 02:19

Wasn't the Tornado designed to take on armed soviet thrusts into european/german plains at low alt ? That is surely nowhere close to as high as Afghanistan. No surprise really then?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Nov 2011 07:28

Prasad wrote:Wasn't the Tornado designed to take on armed soviet thrusts into european/german plains at low alt ? That is surely nowhere close to as high as Afghanistan. No surprise really then?

No surprise as long as you understand that all planes touted as "great" are great all round performers. On an enthusiasts forum such as this one, people pick up reports of greatness and invincibility of weapons systems tested and made for some foreign country and then post messages on here as if those systems are custom built to work supremely effectively under the conditions that the Indian armed forces face. This news item is just a data point that I post as an illustration that such assumptions are not true.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Nov 2011 08:01

TOI
- vijaynagar airfield in the tri junction of india, yunnan and myanmar will be fully reactivated from tomorrow as a IAF ALG with AN32 flights. the navigation and runway has been updated to support other a/c also - so presumably even C130J can operate.

as this article and photo shows, a sort of basic airstrip was there with one AN32 every 15 days ferrying supplies and people. but it has been upgraded into ALG std now.
http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/12/stories ... 071200.htm

I hope night landing and takeoff facility is now there, night hours are good to sneak people and stuff around away from prying eyes.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Nov 2011 08:02

Vijaynagar is surrounded by Myanmar on all sides. On an average, not more 20-25 people can fly out every month. The incoming flights bring a maximum of 24 passengers and registered parcels and rations for government staff. Patients get priority on the flights.

For those who can’t find a seat on the flight, there is only one alternative: a six-day trek through the thick jungles of Namdapha National Park to reach Miao. The 157-km long Miao-Vijaynagar road was motorable till 1976, but it has fallen into disrepair since. The villagers hire Chakma refugees to bring goods from Miao on head loads or on elephant back for which they have to cough up Rs 50 a kilo, which explains the exorbitant prices. Vijaynagar is yet to be covered by landline or mobile phone networks. The Circle Office had a satellite phone which went out of order in February this year. Each call made by the villager is charged Rs 50 plus Rs. 5 a minute.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Nov 2011 08:06

what seems to have happened is the formation of namdapha reserve led to the abandonment of the road to the jungle and thus cut off vijayanagar except with a murderous 11 day trek (see below) or by air (twice a month!)
http://travel.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?261592
http://travel.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?261591
photo the abandoned road here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wheels_valleys/page2/

need to pull pants up and develop a alternative land route....I am shocked to see citizens of this country left is such a helpless state....same for manipur where the govts mollycoddling of naga parties has seen months of food blocade and things like petrol costing 100s of Rs/liter and LPG cylinders Rs 1500. obviously vested interests in the state govt must also be enjoying this supply shortage and making a good cut.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 17 Nov 2011 20:50

IAF to reactivate airfield in Arunachal Pradesh

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 17 Nov 2011 23:31

Prasad wrote:Wasn't the Tornado designed to take on armed soviet thrusts into european/german plains at low alt ? That is surely nowhere close to as high as Afghanistan. No surprise really then?

specifically, low level long range tactical and semi-strategic interdiction below radar - hoping to avoid soviet inteceptors
expected theatres - eastern europe and baltic rim from bases in UK and Germany. there was never any hot and high requirement, only for high speed cruise at 50-100 ft above the deck using the terrain following radar in relatively cool conditions. the engine design for this mission would look very different

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 18 Nov 2011 15:23

Final Approval For IAF Pilatus Trainers Next Week

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 18 Nov 2011 18:36

^^^I had wondered why the IAF went with the PC-7 MKII rather than the latest PC-21 variant. Earlier my view was that the IAF wanted the trainee to learn the basics using analog consoles and learn the basics of flying in the good old way.
Now i found some more aspects that must have lead to this selection.
1. Cost: Seems the PC-7 costs are nearly half of the PC-21 variant.
2. Lower stall speed and lower Maximum speed: PC-7 stall speed is lower than that of PC-21 making it safer for the cadets.
3. Range: The range of good old PC-7 is higher than that of PC-21.
4. More hardpoints.
5. And above all http://www.pilatus-aircraft.com/#45

With its highly cost-efficient Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-25C engine, it provides the lowest engine operating costs of all turboprop trainer aircraft.
Lower operational cost.

One issue that can be of concern is the cost of the aircraft.
http://www.aircraftcompare.com/helicopt ... -PC-21/312 is $9 million
http://www.aircraftcompare.com/helicopt ... -Mk-II/311 is $ 3.9 million or say $ 4 million
Now India is paying $565-million/75 aircraft = $ 7.533 million per aircraft

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Nov 2011 23:16

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/aeronauti ... rules.html

these 14 rules were laid down by L kelly johnson himself.

the last rule is interesting.

Nick_S · Post by **Nick_S** » 19 Nov 2011 02:35

uddu wrote:^^^I had wondered why the IAF went with the PC-7 MKII rather than the latest PC-21 variant. Earlier my view was that the IAF wanted the trainee to learn the basics using analog consoles and learn the basics of flying in the good old way.

One issue that can be of concern is the cost of the aircraft.
http://www.aircraftcompare.com/helicopt ... -PC-21/312 is $9 million
http://www.aircraftcompare.com/helicopt ... -Mk-II/311 is $ 3.9 million or say $ 4 million
Now India is paying $565-million/75 aircraft = $ 7.533 million per aircraft

Well, at least it has a nice glass cockpit -

http://www.pilatus-aircraft.com/01-api/ ... kpit03.jpg

I guess the price differential is due to the offsets requirement. Take for example the C-17 deal. Aus is placing an order for 1 more C-17 at a cost of $300 million and this includes spare engines, spare parts, training etc. Pretty much the same sort of stuff that our C-17s will come with. The $100 million difference in price between our C-17s and Aus are probably due to offset requirement. The new wind tunnel facility itself will cost several hundred million $$$s.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 19 Nov 2011 07:29

1962 war airstrip reopened in Arunachal

fotu

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Nov 2011 08:17

uddu wrote:^^^I had wondered why the IAF went with the PC-7 MKII rather than the latest PC-21 variant. Earlier my view was that the IAF wanted the trainee to learn the basics using analog consoles and learn the basics of flying in the good old way.
Now i found some more aspects that must have lead to this selection.
1. Cost: Seems the PC-7 costs are nearly half of the PC-21 variant.
2. Lower stall speed and lower Maximum speed: PC-7 stall speed is lower than that of PC-21 making it safer for the cadets.
3. Range: The range of good old PC-7 is higher than that of PC-21.
4. More hardpoints.
5. And above all http://www.pilatus-aircraft.com/#45
With its highly cost-efficient Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-25C engine, it provides the lowest engine operating costs of all turboprop trainer aircraft.
Lower operational cost.

One issue that can be of concern is the cost of the aircraft.
http://www.aircraftcompare.com/helicopt ... -PC-21/312 is $9 million
http://www.aircraftcompare.com/helicopt ... -Mk-II/311 is $ 3.9 million or say $ 4 million
Now India is paying $565-million/75 aircraft = $ 7.533 million per aircraft

Also my unkal googal tells me that the PC-21 is capable of performing roles that the IAF is not looking for. the trainee will move on to jets (namely IJT) after basic training anyway.

pragnya · Post by **pragnya** » 19 Nov 2011 10:37

JAGUAR DARIN-III Upgrade

• Aircraft upgraded to DARIN-III standard would feature following equipment/systems in addition to those integrated as part of the recent strike aircraft produced (DARIN II + additional systems) :
• Modified avionics Architecture
• New cockpit with dual SMD on single seater A/C
• Integration of MULTI MODE RADAR on single seater Aircraft
• Engine and Flight Instrument system/Integrated Standby Instrument system (EFIS/ISIS) Integration to replace existing electro-mechanical flight instruments and/or engine instruments.
• Solid State Flight Data Recorder and Solid State Video Recording System
• Additional functionalities related to display, data transfer and Auto Pilot
• New Weapons
• Development activities would involve major structural modification to the airframe to accommodate the radar (on the nose cone of Strike aircraft). On the Avionics front Mission computer software development, new cockpit design, radar integration and solid state video recording system is to be addressed. Modification will also be required to be carried out on the air-conditioning system to meet the equipment cooling requirements.

Mirage Upgrade

• Mirage 2000 Upgrade is proposed in two Phases:

Phase-1: Development for Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) & Supply of IOC Equipment by French OEMs (Thales & Dassault)

Phase-2: Development for Final Operational Clearance (FOC) and series upgrade of the fleet by HAL:

• Integration of Buyer Furnished Equipment (BFE)

Six subsystems viz. Laser Designation Pod (LDP), Air Combat Maneuvering Instrumentation (ACMI) pod, Helmet Mounted Display System (HMDS), Crystal Maze missile (CM), BDL-CMDS and Operational Data Link (ODL- provision only).

• Design and development of HAL Mission computer
• Upgrade of two IOC standard aircraft to FOC standard.
• Series Upgrade of aircraft.

http://hal-india.com/futureproducts/products.asp

wig · Post by **wig** » 20 Nov 2011 10:00

US firm Honeywell may be overhauling IAF’s Jaguars with new more powerful engines

US company Honeywell is inching closer to bagging the multi-million dollar contract for “re-engining” (fitting new engines by replacing the existing engines) the IAF’s fleet of Jaguar fighter jets.

It is learnt that IAF will send a request for proposal (RFP) to Honeywell for re-engining the strike aircraft.

“We will be issuing RFP for the Honeywell engine very shortly”, a top IAF official said. The deal, worth an estimated 670 million US dollars, can be awarded to the US company only as a matter of a special case since Honeywell is the only vendor in the race for the contract.

The Defence Ministry normally does not place orders in single-vendor competitions. The Jaguar re-engining tender is likely to be a government-to-government deal between New Delhi and Washington.

The procurement process for new engines for Jaguar, initiated in 2008, was reduced to a single-vendor one when Honeywell’s British competitor Rolls-Royce withdrew from the programme early this year.

Honeywell’s F125IN is a 43.8 kilonewton (kN) thrust turbofan engine. Rolls Royce, whose Adour Mk811 (32.5 kN) presently powers the Jaguars, had offered its Adour Mk821 turbofan, an upgraded version of Mk811.

The British engine maker pulled out of the competition because it only wanted to upgrade the Jaguar's existing engine, not to fit the aircraft with a new engine.

The IAF wants to replace the Jaguar's Adour engine with a higher-thrust engine that would allow improvements to the Jaguar’s mission performance, especially in medium and high-level sorties and undertake missions that are not possible with the existing engine.

As the Jaguar has turned heavier with capabilities added, the Adour engine’s lack of power has reportedly become a serious issue. The IAF wants to retain its Jaguar fleet and has been insisting that new engines will increase its longevity. The IAF has about 125 Jaguar fighters.

State-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) already has ties with Rolls Royce but could also work with Honeywell to re-engine the Indian Jaguars.

The Air Force bought the Jaguars in 1978 for deep strike missions, and HAL began licensed production of the aircraft in the 1980s.

HAL upgraded some Jaguars with avionics from French company Sextant and Israeli company Elta.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20111120/nation.htm#6

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 21 Nov 2011 06:51

Keep the flag flying: Vikram Sood (former RAW chief)

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Nov 2011 09:28

per TOI today two deals have been fwded to CCS for final approval.
- 75 Pilatus PC7 trainers (IAF wants to start first training batch in 2013)
- 450 MICA missiles for the M2K (2 M2K are being sent to france next month, rest will be done in HAL)

also Sikorsky S70B ASW heli took out a half-page colour ad today....so probably some hidden movements in the naval ASW front are taking place quietly.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 21 Nov 2011 09:46

Decks cleared for Rs 5000 crore IAF deal for missiles, trainer jets
TOI

NEW DELHI: All decks have been cleared for two crucial defence deals, together worth over Rs 5,000 crore, to acquire 75 Swiss turbo-prop aircraft to train rookie pilots as well as around 450 advanced French missiles to arm upgraded Mirage-2000 multi-role fighters.

Defence ministry sources say the two deals have now been "sent" to the Cabinet Committee on Security for the "final nod" after "clarifying all objections" of finance ministry. "The contracts will be inked after the CCS clears within a week or so," said a source.

This comes at a time when MoD and IAF are busy calculating the "lowest bidder" between French Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon for the mega medium multi-role combat aircraft project to acquire 126 fighters at a cost likely to touch $20 billion. But while these fighter deliveries will begin from 2015 , IAF wants to induct trainers earlier to train new pilots. The hurry to acquire 75 Swiss Pilatus PC-7 basic trainers is critical since IAF's 114 piston-engined HPT-32 jets have been grounded since August 2009 due to repeated engine failures.

"We want to begin our first course on the Pilatus trainers from July 2013," said a senior officer. IAF, of course, is already inducting 123 British Hawk AJTs (advanced jet trainers), at a cost of around Rs 16,000 crore, but they are meant for "advanced'' combat training. The contract for the around 450 fire-and-forget, all-weather MICA (interception and aerial combat missiles) systems with French company MBDA, too, has been in the pipeline for quite some time.

It flows from the Rs 10,947 crore programme finalized in July for an upgrade of 51 Mirage-2000s with the help of French companies Dassault Aviation (aircraft manufacturer) and Thales (weapons systems integrator).

While the first two fighters are being sent to France next month for the upgrade, the remaining 49 will later be "souped up" with new avionics, radars, mission computers, glass cockpits, helmet-mounted displays, electronic warfare suites, weapon delivery and precision-targeting systems by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd in India. The overall upgrade project cost will go beyond Rs 15,000 crore over the decade it will take to be completed. Down to just 33-34 fighter squadrons (each has 16 to 18 jets) from a 'sanctioned strength' of 39.5

The 63 MiG-29s are to be upgraded under a $964 million deal inked with Russia in March 2008. Then, apart from the 126 MMRCA, IAF is also inducting 272 Sukhoi-30MKIs contracted from Russia for around $12 billion. Moreover, the first lot of the around 120 indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft will join IAF from end-2013 onwards. On top of this all, India plans to induct 250-300 stealth fifth-generation fighter aircraft co-developed with Russia from 2020 onwards, in what will be its biggest-ever defence project at around $35 billion.

nash · Post by **nash** » 21 Nov 2011 10:04

pragnya wrote:JAGUAR DARIN-III Upgrade

• Aircraft upgraded to DARIN-III standard would feature following equipment/systems in addition to those integrated as part of the recent strike aircraft produced (DARIN II + additional systems) :
• Modified avionics Architecture
• New cockpit with dual SMD on single seater A/C
• Integration of MULTI MODE RADAR on single seater Aircraft
• Engine and Flight Instrument system/Integrated Standby Instrument system (EFIS/ISIS) Integration to replace existing electro-mechanical flight instruments and/or engine instruments.
• Solid State Flight Data Recorder and Solid State Video Recording System
• Additional functionalities related to display, data transfer and Auto Pilot
• New Weapons
• Development activities would involve major structural modification to the airframe to accommodate the radar (on the nose cone of Strike aircraft). On the Avionics front Mission computer software development, new cockpit design, radar integration and solid state video recording system is to be addressed. Modification will also be required to be carried out on the air-conditioning system to meet the equipment cooling requirements.

http://hal-india.com/futureproducts/products.asp

MMR and possibly BVR in future will make Jaguar reliable enough to conduct the number of strike mission on its own... it seem like IAF is giving multi-role capability to all the combat aircraft in its inventory.

Shubham · Post by **Shubham** » 21 Nov 2011 10:15

So we could be seeing Pilatus PC-7 at AFA in July 2013, that is about in 18 months. Till that point of time Kiran MK-1 will be holding the fort both for Stage-1 and Stage-2 Fighter Training.

Already the condition and number of Kiran Mk-1 is anemic with they being flogged to the very end of their life. Three more courses will literally write-off all of what is left of them.

Going by current pace IJT would not be ready to be inducted in IAF by July 2013.

Maybe plan B could be to have Hawks to fill in for IJT for some time for Stage-2.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 21 Nov 2011 10:19

^ Dunno if BVR is possible with that small nose. Also, it is slated to receive ASRAAM, a WVR missile. Meaning it will probly have limited self escort capability. Conversely, it might be argued that the Mig-21, despite its rather tiny nose, was made BVR capable with the kopyo. So perhaps a EL-2032/derby+python combo might be in the offing for the Jag, I sure hope so. WIth the honeywell engines, MMR, derby+python, and HMS; it will be quite potent as a self escorting DPSA.

TSPAF MiG-21 clones will have their work cut out for them, and the JF-17s too. Point defence fighters will see serious challenge by above setup.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 21 Nov 2011 11:14

I had seen a Hording of S 76 in US GC colours under the banner of the United technologies this time last year in Cyber City Gurgaon.