Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 2011

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby A_Gupta » 19 Nov 2011 23:35


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby KLNMurthy » 20 Nov 2011 00:05

SSridhar wrote:
rajanb wrote:I love this angst that they face.

I really don't know why Pakistanis are so riled up by the Zardari-Haqqani-Mansoor Ijaz-Mullen exchange of letters and the request by Zardari to stop the coup. Since Independence, The Pakistani leaders have run to so many nations and leaders (Grand Mufti of Makkah, UK, USA, Turkey, China, UAE, Jordan, Libya, Indonesia, and even Lebanon) for various reasons, begging them to intervene on their behalf in their internal and external issues. What is new ?

This is probably a step by TSPA to replace Haqani as he is no longer useful and can be a hindrance.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby pgbhat » 20 Nov 2011 00:38

Maleeha Lodhi is touring massa.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby CRamS » 20 Nov 2011 02:24

Guys:

my take on the memo. I just watched undyTV while browsing around, and there was panel with some Paki arse holes and GP on, reviewing TSP RAPE in Indian mufti, BD, interviewing MI. I think I agree with MI that this is no great crisis per se in that more than TSPA Vs civilian govt (which would have been serious and worth taking note of), this is more a clash of personalities between 10% and Kiyani/Paasha. So basically, this will pass through with nothing much of interest to India. It was telling that GP highlighted HH's op-ed in a TSP newspaper a while back suggesting pigLeTs attack Indian IT centers, and so even GP said he places much more credibility on MI's claims than on HH's denials.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby ramana » 20 Nov 2011 02:41

I think you are missing the tree for the weeds

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby deepan gill » 20 Nov 2011 04:54

Tumba wrote:
Now what are the alternatives :

* A big nuke war which breaks the military infrastructure of porks and cuts the lines from PRC, Arabs and USA to Shitistan, but this will
push our economy a good 20-30 years back. (So not recommended)



I have now seen this reasoning among so many writings both from known and not so unknown personalities. What I fail to understand is, if indeed Pakistan will drop a nuke, will the west let Pakistan drop the bomb?

Will the west risk its investment going up the mushroom cloud?

I really would like to know how will India's economy suffer for 20-30 years?

Dear heavens I do not want a nuke war but, I also do not want India to be held hostage this crazy notion that we cannot hit back since Pakistan will drop the bomb.

If this is the reasoning among Indian analysts then war has already been lost. We have allowed ourselves to be held hostage by a terrorist state. As they say, jo garazte hain voh barastee nahin.

Indians really need to understand, peace is achieved through strength and you should be ready to take use it, if not or yourself, then for your future generations.

Gill

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby ramana » 20 Nov 2011 05:07

Deepan, Welcome back. What have you been doing?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Tumba » 20 Nov 2011 05:38

deepan gill wrote:
Tumba wrote:
Now what are the alternatives :

* A big nuke war which breaks the military infrastructure of porks and cuts the lines from PRC, Arabs and USA to Shitistan, but this will
push our economy a good 20-30 years back. (So not recommended)



I have now seen this reasoning among so many writings both from known and not so unknown personalities. What I fail to understand is, if indeed Pakistan will drop a nuke, will the west let Pakistan drop the bomb?

Will the west risk its investment going up the mushroom cloud?

I really would like to know how will India's economy suffer for 20-30 years?

Dear heavens I do not want a nuke war but, I also do not want India to be held hostage this crazy notion that we cannot hit back since Pakistan will drop the bomb.

If this is the reasoning among Indian analysts then war has already been lost. We have allowed ourselves to be held hostage by a terrorist state. As they say, jo garazte hain voh barastee nahin.

Indians really need to understand, peace is achieved through strength and you should be ready to take use it, if not or yourself, then for your future generations.

Gill


A war without entering GHQ Rawalpindi, without cutting the Porki Border lines with PRC in north and without cutting sea routes wont produce any results and will be useless in the longer run. And if you think Poakee Generals wont use Nukes on India in that scenario will be a mistake.

War should be the last resort, we should use the strategy of Proxy war with good enough PR campaign of mutual cooperation and wait until porkis themselves break thr shitistan and if this strategy dont produce any result we should declare a full fledged war using all our resources in hand to cut Porkistan into pieces and not just settle for surrender of Porkis and for that scenario the Nukes will more than likely be used.

And yes a Nuke hit on major cities of India will certainly push India a good 10/15 years back, with revenue centers of Indian economy not in function for decade or more because of relocation/rebuilding, India will be dependent on foreign aid, we will be short on fuel/ energy and everything we are not self sufficient.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby RamaY » 20 Nov 2011 05:55

^ let me ask you a question.

Do you prefer to be in an india in 1990s that has no Pakistan to worry about OR in india in 2011 with a nuclear terrorist Pakistan in your neighborhood.

That means you are saving ~30-50000 lives in JK and Punjab, no terror attacks since 1990 etc.,

All that for a one time payment of a couple of nuke bombs, that too with a 50% possibility.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Tumba » 20 Nov 2011 06:05

RamaY wrote:^ let me ask you a question.

Do you prefer to be in an india in 1990s that has no Pakistan to worry about OR in india in 2011 with a nuclear terrorist Pakistan in your neighborhood.

That means you are saving ~30-50000 lives in JK and Punjab, no terror attacks since 1990 etc.,

All that for a one time payment of a couple of nuke bombs, that too with a 50% possibility.



let me ask you a question also :

do you prefer a nuke hit on major cities which will kill 300-500000 high end tax paying Indians in each of them, do you
prefer being short on fuel supplies, hyperinflation.

There are ways dealing with this scum of a nation called pakistan in thr own ways, we should hold on till we can.
India dont need another surrender of Pakistan we need total annihilation of Pakistan but before that we should use each and
every way to deal with this problem.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby shiv » 20 Nov 2011 06:50

G. Parthasarathy (on NDTV last light with Vishnu Som, Mansoor Izaj and 2 Pakis) categorically stated that "Pakistani civilians are sick and tired of their military, but nobody will say it out loud"

I don;t doubt this - there have been enough hints in the media by Pakis, but hearing GP say it adds weight to what would otherwise be an empty claim. But let me remind people of the manner in which Pakis have traditionally expressed dissatisfaction over their army. It is done in an equal equal manner by saying "We can't trust people in uniform/khakis, so we both need to stop trusting our armed forces. we will dismiss what th Pakis army says an you dismiss what the Indian army says" Unbelievably there are Indians who actually fall for this equal equal between a professional Indian armed force that remains subservient to a civilian administration and a power grabbing Pakistan army that manufactures cornflakes and gets jihadis to fight battles after they conduct a mass surrender exercise.

Yeah. We need to make the Indian army "less threatening" to Pakistan.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby shiv » 20 Nov 2011 06:59

Tumba wrote:
* A big nuke war which breaks the military infrastructure of porks and cuts the lines from PRC, Arabs and USA to Shitistan, but this will push our economy a good 20-30 years back. (So not recommended)


Hey it is useful to look at this statement in the way Pakis and the likes of Arundhati Roy types look at it. Who are you referring to by "our economy"? India has the largest collection of poor in the world. 400 million Indians live below the poverty line. 700 million Indians do not have toilets and X million do not have safe drinking water. Thousand of farmers have committed suicide. These represent the majority of Indians. What have the tax paying 100 million done for the 1 biliion mass.

It is OK to take a few nuclear hits from Pakistan as long as we eliminate Pakistan. OK a few of us Macaulayite hoity toity people internet enabled of my ilk will suffer and die in the cities. But if we live we will only end up living like most of India. So no big loss. The real India is the India of the villages remember. Funny that our politicians speak for the "masses" but shit like city dwellers - they have toilets to visit when the word Nuke or China is mentioned. Let us have nuclear war.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Airavat » 20 Nov 2011 07:55

Cannot compete with India

“Diesel is Rs94 per liter in Pakistan while in India it is available for Rs77 (Pakistani rupee) per liter. Electricity is being provided to Indian growers at Re1 per unit and in Pakistan it is not less than Rs8.38 per unit,” they said.

He claimed that a bag of urea fertilizer of 50kg is available in Pakistan at Rs1,700 but the same bag in India is being sold at Rs513. Similarly, DAP bag is being sold in Pakistan at Rs4,200, while in India it is available for Rs1,539.

He stated that the MFN status to India would ruin Pakistani agriculture. He went on to say that because many of the local industries depend on agriculture, so the industries will also be affected by granting MFN status to India. Local industry is importing 99 per cent of its raw material from India and China, but once the MFN status is functional local manufacturing would be out of question, he added.

Agri experts said there is a marked difference in prices of inputs, including fertiliser, seeds, pesticides, diesel and electricity in both the countries, they said. Hence, they said, there is no comparison between the overall costs of production of farmers living in the two countries. They said that due to such multiple factors, we are not capable of compete with India in international as well as in our own market.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Tumba » 20 Nov 2011 08:03

shiv wrote:
Tumba wrote:
* A big nuke war which breaks the military infrastructure of porks and cuts the lines from PRC, Arabs and USA to Shitistan, but this will push our economy a good 20-30 years back. (So not recommended)


Hey it is useful to look at this statement in the way Pakis and the likes of Arundhati Roy types look at it. Who are you referring to by "our economy"? India has the largest collection of poor in the world. 400 million Indians live below the poverty line. 700 million Indians do not have toilets and X million do not have safe drinking water. Thousand of farmers have committed suicide. These represent the majority of Indians. What have the tax paying 100 million done for the 1 biliion mass.

It is OK to take a few nuclear hits from Pakistan as long as we eliminate Pakistan. OK a few of us Macaulayite hoity toity people internet enabled of my ilk will suffer and die in the cities. But if we live we will only end up living like most of India. So no big loss. The real India is the India of the villages remember. Funny that our politicians speak for the "masses" but shit like city dwellers - they have toilets to visit when the word Nuke or China is mentioned. Let us have nuclear war.



well i never written not doable, and this is the only scenario that will really work and i dont think it will take that much of persuasion now in our decision circles and this might be much near than most of us think as porkis are training lots of abduls these days to spread name of allah in India ... well i would certainly prefer to be on Border fighting these Porks than sitting on internet when the time comes :)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby svinayak » 20 Nov 2011 09:01

Exposing Pakistan Army

Exposing Pakistan Army
SATURDAY, 19 NOVEMBER 2011 22:16 PIONEER
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Inside the Pakistan Army

Author: Carey Schofield

Publisher: Pentagon Security International,

Price: Rs 695

Carey Schofield not only talks about the army's constant meddling with Pakistani politics but also its Islamisation drive under Gen Zia-ul-Haq, writes Anil Bhat

The Pakistan Army has been going through a bad phase. First came the WikiLeaks exposé on its links with the Taliban, then the killing of Osama bin Laden, who had holed up for years in the barrack town of Abbottabad near Islamabad. Shortly afterwards, Syed Saleem Shahzad’s book, Inside Al Qaeda and the Taliban Beyond Bin Laden and 9/11, provided another blow to the Pakistan Army and the ISI; the author, however, had to pay the price with his life. Now, with Carey Schofield’s book, Inside the Pakistan Army, comes the ultimate condemnation for Pakistan’s armed forces and their wily allies.

Schofield thanks Pervez Musharraf and Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, along with other army officers, for their support and encouragement while she was researching for the book. On the first page itself, however, her verdict on the Pakistan Army is scathing. She says that the military has never been entirely trusted by the West, as its role in the “war against terror has been seen to be ambiguous”. She also asks a few questions that observers in India have repeatedly dwelt upon: “Has the army’s notorious ISI continued to support its long-term allies amongst the Taliban, with or without the tacit consent of the head of state? Have elements in the army siphoned off aid given to them by the Americans to support the very forces it was supposed to be used to suppress? How strenuous or even sincere has the army ever been in its attempts to round up Taliban fighters fleeing from NATO forces across its borders? To what extent has every element in the military machine been under the control of the head of the state?”

Schofield’s conclusions are reinforced by Ralph Peters, a retired US army officer who had worked briefly with the Pakistan Army and intelligence leadership in the mid-1990s. His military report, which “nobody in Washington cared” about, reads: “Your (America’s) tax dollars are being used to help kill and maim our soldiers, marines and navy corpsmen fighting in Afghanistan... Over the past 10 years, we’ve given the Pakistanis — primarily their military — over $20 billion in aid. What did we get in return? Our Pakistani allies hid and protected Osama bin Laden; they increased their support to the Afghan Taliban and their partner, the Haqqani terror network; they sponsored repeated terrorist attacks against India; they provided safe havens for terrorists from a ‘rainbow coalition’ of extremist outfits; and, all the while they purposely whipped up anti-Americanism among the country’s 180 million Muslims. Your tax dollars at work.”

The army has always been one of the biggest threats to Pakistan’s democratic forces, if any. It justified the bloodless coup of Gen Ayub Khan by citing chaos and corruption in the country. The army promised a “sound, solid and strong nation”. Gen Khan began by delivering growth and prosperity, helped primarily by economic assistance from the US and the UK. In 1961, he initiated the process of shifting the nation’s capital from Karachi to Islamabad, about 10 miles from the Army General Headquarters in Rawalpindi.

Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, Ayub Khan’s Foreign Minister, encouraged the General to adopt an aggressive policy vis-à-vis India. Following moves by the US to supply arms to India during its 1962 war with China, Bhutto also instigated a change in foreign policy which until then had been entirely pro-West/US; he saw China as a potential ally to strengthen Pakistan’s position in the region. In 1963, this shift culminated in the Sino-Pakistan Agreement, by which China ceded 750 sq miles of land to Pakistan which, in turn, acknowledged Beijing’s sovereignty over a large part of Pakistan-occupied northern Kashmir.

For the Pakistan Army, India has been a perennial threat. It constantly reminds the countrymen of Delhi’s alleged perfidy on the Kashmir issue. During its initial years, the army primarily comprised of sons of landed families and successful professionals, with almost all prominent families having someone in the forces. Gen Zia-ul-Haq’s Islamisation drive, however, changed that trend, bringing in both officers and jawans from less affluent and more religious backgrounds. Having lost out to India in three conventional wars since 1947 — the third of which severed off erstwhile East Pakistan — Gen Zia’s Islamisation programme gave the India-Pakistan rivalry a religious colour.

Schofield, however, commits a mistake when she states that President Musharraf awarded the Sitara-e-Pakistan posthumously in 1994 to William Brown (for raising the flag of Pakistan in Gilgit in 1947 — considered an act of treason against his own King). This is a wrong information as in 1994, Musharraf was neither the army chief, nor the President; he was a Lt General heading military operations. Barring this error, the author has authoritatively written about the army’s internal bickerings and intrigues. She quotes several senior military officers. “Recurrent confrontation and collusion with politicians have blackened the army’s reputation and has, arguably, hampered its military effectiveness,” said one of them.

For those concerned with Pakistan, this is a must-read book. In fact, it would be worthwhile to have it translated into other languages.

The reviewer, a Delhi-based defence expert, is Editor of WordSword Features & Media

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby svinayak » 20 Nov 2011 09:04

If Pakistan Splinters…' – Indian Defense Affairs Writer Imagines Consequences of Pakistan's Break-Up

Image
Pakistan's map and likely consequences of its breakup (Image courtesy: indiandefencereview.com)
In a recent article, noted Indian military affairs writer Bharat Verma imagined the likely consequences of Pakistan's break-up for China, Afghanistan, India, and the United States. In the article titled "If Pakistan Splinters…," he also argued that Pakistan's break-up will be beneficial for pro-democracy forces and will weaken the Islamic terrorism led by Sunni Muslims.
Bharat Verma, a former cavalry officer, is an author of several books on Indian defence issues and Editor of the Indian Defence Review magazine.
Following are excerpts from the article:[1]
"The Chinese will Suffer A Major Setback If Dysfunctional Pakistan Splinters in the Near Future"
"If Pakistan splinters, it will hit the biggest stakeholder and benefactor - China. In order to safeguard its strategic interests, Beijing will make every endeavor to prevent the breakup of Pakistan, even to the extent of military intervention in support of the Pakistan Army."
"The Chinese will suffer a major setback if dysfunctional Pakistan splinters in the near future.
"Many Malaysian Muslims will hasten to tell you that their country should not be compared to Pakistan. Or the migrant Muslims in West Asia (Middle East), while introducing themselves, take pains to assert that they are Muslims from India and not Pakistan.
"Serious contradictions within Pakistan have pushed it into the pit of despair from where it is almost impossible to recover. It is reported that many young Pakistanis are repudiating Islam out of sheer frustration and converting to other religions.
"Possibly, the majority of the Pakistan’s dominant community - Punjabi Sunni Muslims living in their isolated world of self-destruction - do not realize the damage they are doing to Islam.
"Pakistan appears to be hurtling towards self-destruction."
"Beijing Treats Pakistan As an Extension of Its War Machine and a Surrogate Colony"
"Beijing treats Pakistan as an extension of its war machine and a surrogate colony. The likely breakup of Pakistan in the near future will stall [the] expanding Chinese footprints.
"Impaired Pakistan is a cause of deep worry for Beijing, since Islamabad’s capability to tie-down India by launching terrorist attacks will also suffer.
"If Pakistan splinters, there will be enormous gains for India.
"PoK [Pakistani Occupied Kashmir] will revert back to the Indian fold and peace will prevail. This is the singular reason for the Chinese to move their troops into PoK. The strategy is two-fold: First, occupy or gain influence over as much occupied Indian Territory as possible, in case Pakistan breaks up, and second, to keep up the pressure on India's borders since Pakistan is no position to do the same, given its present internal disarray. Further, China does not want India to be emboldened to mount an attack on Pakistan, which is already gasping for oxygen."
"Fragmented Pakistan will Lessen the Heavy Financial Burden Placed on India’s Economy with Drastic Reduction in the Security Apparatus"
"With the break-up of Pakistan, [Pakistani military's Inter-Services Intelligence] ISI activities like export of fake Indian currency and infiltration of terrorists through Nepal will cease. Anti-India rabblerousing by ISI-inspired elements in Bangladesh against India will no longer be possible.
"The Union of India’s consolidation and integration as a nation will get a new fillip, as the distraction created by Pakistan in the name of religion is eliminated.
"India will then be able to concentrate on the principal threat posed by China.
"Fragmented Pakistan will lessen the heavy financial burden placed on India’s economy with drastic reduction in the security apparatus. This will enable young India to make rapid economic strides that can outpace ageing China in a short span of time."
"The West Led By America is Losing the Plot in Afghanistan Because the Problem is the Pakistan Army and Its Irregular Forces Led By General Kayani"
"Similarly, colossal gains accrue to the West if Pakistan splinters.
"The West led by America is losing the plot in Afghanistan because the problem is the Pakistan Army and its Irregular Forces led by General [Ashfaq Pervez] Kayani.
"Washington was forced to admit recently this worst-kept secret, when its supply routes to Afghanistan were snapped by GHQ Rawalpindi [i.e. the headquarters of Pakistan Army] and NATO convoys carrying fuel to Afghanistan were conveniently torched by the ISI-controlled Ghost Army of Jihad with impunity.
"American attempts to unhook Pakistan from China will continue to fail despite dangling the carrot of modern weapons and technology, as Islamabad’s strategic dependency on Beijing is now irreversible.
"The 'real estate' of Pakistan was created so that the West could monitor and manipulate the former Soviet Union, China, and India."
"Afghanistan will Gradually Witness Unhindered Growth of Democracy; the Spoilers, the Pakistan Army and the ISI, would Have Disappeared"
"However, if Pakistan falls apart, Sindh, which has very strong democratic yearning, is certain to charter its own independent path but in consonance with the Indian value system.
"Independent Baluchistan with its rich resources will definitely stand against the Chinese, who in conjunction with Islamabad are exploiting its resources. Denial of [access to the] Gwadar port will preclude the Chinese Navy from the warm waters of the Indian Ocean and direct access to West Asia.
"Afghanistan will gradually witness unhindered growth of democracy; the spoilers, the Pakistan Army and the ISI would have disappeared.
"Therefore, democracies will find many friendly places to operate from and access to the resources of Central Asia to the mutual benefit of all players."
"Two Authoritarian Streams, Chinese Communism and Islamic Fundamentalism, in Combination or Otherwise, Threaten the Survival of Democracies in Asia"
"The biggest gain for the democracies will be that China’s expanding authoritarian influence will be sharply curtailed. Also the Jihad fervor being orchestrated in this part of the world [i.e. in South Asia] by the Punjabi Sunnis will die a natural death due to fatigue and lack of resources.
"The spread of two authoritarian streams, Chinese communism and the Islamic fundamentalism, in combination or otherwise, threaten the survival of democracies in Asia.
"If Pakistan splinters, one of the threats will be substantially neutralized.
"This in turn will make Central Asia a safer place where Pakistan aims to attain strategic depth with the help of Islamic fundamentalists.
"If Pakistan splinters, Sinkiang in China will face renewed instability and the Chinese flank in occupied Tibet will come under severe pressure."
"The Power of the Shias will Increase, Thus Creating a Balance with Some of the Sunni Sects That are Mainly Responsible for Terrorist Acts Worldwide"
"With independent Sindh and Baluchistan, the Chinese supply lines from Gwadar would not be possible. This will force China to revert to 'peaceful rise' instead of laying claim to territory or islands of other nations.
"The power of the Shias will increase, thus creating a balance with some of the Sunni sects that are mainly responsible for terrorist acts worldwide. Two successive British Prime Ministers have stated [that] Pakistan accounts for 75 percent of all such acts.
"If Pakistan splinters, this percentage will drop to abysmal levels.
"Most often remarks on Pakistan are prefaced by, 'Just like you Indians cannot live with Pakistan...'
"This premise is false. An average Indian can live with Pakistan, as long as Islamabad does not interfere in internal affairs or connive against India. It is irrelevant whether India dialogues, trades, or maintains diplomatic relations with Pakistan; growth of the Indian economy or the growing status of India is not even remotely connected to the failure or success of Islamabad."
"The 'Pakistan Story' Failed Because of the Inherent Flaws in the Values Professed; The 'Indian Story' Shows Success Because of Its Belief in Secular Democratic Values"
"The 'Pakistan Story' failed because of the inherent flaws in the values professed and not because of 'Kashmir'! The 'Indian Story' shows success because of its belief in secular democratic values.
"The truth therefore is that 'Pakistan cannot live with India.' The converse is absolutely preposterous.
"If Pakistan splinters, it will hit the biggest stakeholder and benefactor China. In order to safeguard its strategic interests, Beijing therefore will make every endeavor to prevent the breakup of Pakistan, even to the extent of military intervention in support of the Pakistan Army.
"If Pakistan splinters, forces led by Barak Obama will win. On the contrary, if China is successful in its intervention, authoritarian regimes will hold sway in Asia.
"Who wins the Great Game in Asia will depend on the finesse with which the cards are dealt by the contending sides."

Endnote:
[1] www.indiandefencereview.com (India), September 24, 2011. The text of the article has been lightly edited for clarity.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby shiv » 20 Nov 2011 09:05

Airavat wrote:Cannot compete with India

He stated that the MFN status to India would ruin Pakistani agriculture. He went on to say that because many of the local industries depend on agriculture, so the industries will also be affected by granting MFN status to India. Local industry is importing 99 per cent of its raw material from India and China, but once the MFN status is functional local manufacturing would be out of question, he added.

Agri experts said there is a marked difference in prices of inputs, including fertiliser, seeds, pesticides, diesel and electricity in both the countries, they said. Hence, they said, there is no comparison between the overall costs of production of farmers living in the two countries. They said that due to such multiple factors, we are not capable of compete with India in international as well as in our own market.


But Pakistan would kick kafir Indian ass in manufacturing footballs and mascara. Pakistani manufacturing has come of age for the 6th century

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby deepan gill » 20 Nov 2011 09:36

Ramana, thank you sir, I have been the lurking admirer and watcher of this great website. I had been busy with my son Arihant :)
Over the years I have read posts and seen members, and came to the conclusion, we are united but with different preceptions.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby deepan gill » 20 Nov 2011 10:00

A war without entering GHQ Rawalpindi, without cutting the Porki Border lines with PRC in north and without cutting sea routes wont produce any results and will be useless in the longer run. And if you think Poakee Generals wont use Nukes on India in that scenario will be a mistake.


Sir, I disagree with the analysis above. We have already decided as have majority of Indian analysts that Pakistan will go nuke as soon Indian Strike Corp is activated. However I thought about this, China can be countered easily, a message needs to be sent to China that any nuke attack on India will initiate an Indian nuke strike against Pakistan and China. Any type of military aid to Pakistan during war-time will be considered as an act of war against India by China. Besides I believe strongly Chinese are more interested in pushing their cheap goods into India. They are already ruining our economy, then why not get some mileage out of it. Make China finally decide on its position, rather than changing our position on their behalf.

Sea routes, now will be the time for GOI to make use of their fruitless diplomacy with Islamic nations and persuade them not to assist Pakistan's war machinery. If not heeded, Indian navy will have right to board any ship headed for Pakistan, a total sea-blockade.

War should be the last resort, we should use the strategy of Proxy war with good enough PR campaign of mutual cooperation and wait until porkis themselves break thr shitistan and if this strategy dont produce any result we should declare a full fledged war using all our resources in hand to cut Porkistan into pieces and not just settle for surrender of Porkis and for that scenario the Nukes will more than likely be used.


Indians are not capable of proxy war. We do not have the will like the US to spend time and resources on a long drawn war. The MQM days of Karachi in the 90s is a perfect example. Blame the GOI etc, thing is we abandoned Karachi too early. We don't have the stomach to fight a 100 year war and eliminate a disease.

And yes a Nuke hit on major cities of India will certainly push India a good 10/15 years back, with revenue centers of Indian economy not in function for decade or more because of relocation/rebuilding, India will be dependent on foreign aid, we will be short on fuel/ energy and everything we are not self sufficient.


Sir, I am not an economist but I do believe that even the world economy will suffer as well.

I fully understand your view but over the years I now find excuses in the reasoning that you have used. I am not saying this to you personally but to the whole argument of Indian economy will go down etc. Am I to tell my children, hey enjoy your posh cars, jewels, Thai food, and let poor souls die at the hands of terrorists? Sorry I cannot.

Gill

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby svinayak » 20 Nov 2011 10:03



Funny video
Wikileaks Exclusive who is real Tiger India or Pakistan

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Yogi_G » 20 Nov 2011 10:24

Acharya wrote:

Funny video
Wikileaks Exclusive who is real Tiger India or Pakistan


Notice how at the end of the video the wagah border incident of the Indian soldier getting kicked is displayed. The Pakistanis revel in small insignificant events which apparently "shows" them in some superior light. Sort of like our 80's and 90's cheap trick Rajini "style" where entire audiences would whistle if he just ran his fingers through his hair. Sort of like the '65 BBC documentary where even the Goras portayed the Paki airforce in tremendous lengths, we all know what happened in '71 and to the Martial races theory.

ps: This ghazi runs fefore Rajini fans pounce on me

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby krishnan » 20 Nov 2011 10:45

And we all known to what extent chucker is going to sell his book

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby parsuram » 20 Nov 2011 11:03

deepan gill wrote:
A war without entering GHQ Rawalpindi, without cutting the Porki Border lines with PRC in north and without cutting sea routes wont produce any results and will be useless in the longer run. And if you think Poakee Generals wont use Nukes on India in that scenario will be a mistake.


Sir, I disagree with the analysis above. We have already decided as have majority of Indian analysts that Pakistan will go nuke as soon Indian Strike Corp is activated. However I thought about this, China can be countered easily, a message needs to be sent to China that any nuke attack on India will initiate an Indian nuke strike against Pakistan and China. Any type of military aid to Pakistan during war-time will be considered as an act of war against India by China. Besides I believe strongly Chinese are more interested in pushing their cheap goods into India. They are already ruining our economy, then why not get some mileage out of it. Make China finally decide on its position, rather than changing our position on their behalf.

Sea routes, now will be the time for GOI to make use of their fruitless diplomacy with Islamic nations and persuade them not to assist Pakistan's war machinery. If not heeded, Indian navy will have right to board any ship headed for Pakistan, a total sea-blockade.

War should be the last resort, we should use the strategy of Proxy war with good enough PR campaign of mutual cooperation and wait until porkis themselves break thr shitistan and if this strategy dont produce any result we should declare a full fledged war using all our resources in hand to cut Porkistan into pieces and not just settle for surrender of Porkis and for that scenario the Nukes will more than likely be used.


Indians are not capable of proxy war. We do not have the will like the US to spend time and resources on a long drawn war. The MQM days of Karachi in the 90s is a perfect example. Blame the GOI etc, thing is we abandoned Karachi too early. We don't have the stomach to fight a 100 year war and eliminate a disease.

And yes a Nuke hit on major cities of India will certainly push India a good 10/15 years back, with revenue centers of Indian economy not in function for decade or more because of relocation/rebuilding, India will be dependent on foreign aid, we will be short on fuel/ energy and everything we are not self sufficient.



Sir, I am not an economist but I do believe that even the world economy will suffer as well.

I fully understand your view but over the years I now find excuses in the reasoning that you have used. I am not saying this to you personally but to the whole argument of Indian economy will go down etc. Am I to tell my children, hey enjoy your posh cars, jewels, Thai food, and let poor souls die at the hands of terrorists? Sorry I cannot.

Gill


There is much that I agree with in this post. It has the right attitude. The only change I recommend is to let the chinese know of the consequences of a paki nuclear attack on India. The retaliation will be only against the chinese. It will be automatic, with no warnings or ultimatums. They will know that the pakis hold the nuclear trigger that will destroy them. It will be up to them to change that, if they want to. They want to insert them into "south asian" affairs, well, they should consider themselves well and truly inserted via the paki.

I have just a few comments, more to do with some earlier discussions about hating your enemy, et cetra, that seem to forget a lot of history. Great civilizations and civil societies have fallen to barbarians in the past. Indeed, other than Indic civilizations - Hindu, Jain, Buddhists and Sikhs, none others have survived. From these, we have learnt a fundamental lesson: "Only those civilized people survive who have the ability to be more uncivilised, more barbaric, and more brutal than the most uncivilized,barbaric and brutal garbage that threatens and attacks them" None others have survived. Ergo, if Indic civilizations are to survive, they must, once more, wear the garb of Yama, listen to the words of the Gita, and ruthlessly destroy those who dream of destroying them. There is no kind and gentle way. Do not try to civilized them, who were born the way they are, based on their karma. History has kindly weeded most of them out from among us, placing them seperate from us on the west and the east. There is little more that needs done, however unpleasent, and the sooner it is the better.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby SSridhar » 20 Nov 2011 12:43

Yogi_G wrote:Notice how at the end of the video the wagah border incident of the Indian soldier getting kicked is displayed. The Pakistanis revel in small insignificant events which apparently "shows" them in some superior light.

Yogi_G, that is very true, the bolded part above. I would only amend it by saying '. . . apparently "shows" them in some superior light against India and the Indians'.

I had a well-educated, westernized, Pakistani colleague who once confided in me that the normal feeling of every Pakistani child, by the time he/she is in the sixth grade, was to destroy India.

The publisher of the largest-circulating Nawa-i-Waqt group of newspapers, Majid Nizami, once expressed his desire to strap himself to a nuclear weapon and be dropped on India. Why should he, who can't help the fission process in anyway, strap himself to the weapon, I don't know.

The Pakistanis also come to the conclusion that since the minority Muslims were able to rule the vastly majoritarian Hindus for many centuries, the Hindus should be cowards and can be subjugated once again if the right environment obtains. Hence, the Ayubian ratio of 1:10 and the Benazirian ratio of 1:100. Thus, Jinnah, Suhrawardy et al let loose an orgy of violence on the non-Muslim Indians before Independence. They carried this practice into Pakistan after Independence. Historically too, Muslim conquerors have subjected the conquered people with utter humiliation, possibly to break their dignity and self-respect.

The Pakistanis have to constantly play to the gallery. The goats that the Pakistanis are, they simply believe anything being dished out that depict the Indians in poor light and more so if it shows the Pakistanis in a better light. Just look at the tweet that the dead Salman Taseer made after the failure of GSLV. Also, look at what Musharraf said after hurriedly moving a broken satellite into the slot allocated for Pakistan (just to prevent losing that slot permanently). About 5 or 6 years back, we had an interesting discussion here about how and why Pakistan claimed to be almost equal to India in IT exports. Musharraf's enunciation of superior English language skills of Pakistanis compared to the Indians and Army-spokesperson-cum-journalist Ejaz Haider's crowing over penile lengths fall into the same category.

The 'Establishment' realizes that such fabricated bravado raises hatred against India and helps escalate violence against us. The Pakistani effort therefore is to humiliate, embarrass and cause maximum discomfiture to India so that the Pakistani Abduls will maintain their enduring hatred and hostility with us.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby SSridhar » 20 Nov 2011 12:56

deepen gill wrote:However I thought about this, China can be countered easily, a message needs to be sent to China that any nuke attack on India will initiate an Indian nuke strike against Pakistan and China. Any type of military aid to Pakistan during war-time will be considered as an act of war against India by China.

The current Indian Nuclear Doctrine addresses this issue when it claims that even supporters of those who attack India with nuclear weapons would be subjected to a nuclear strike. As is always true with deterrence, it is a mind game where perceptions matter the most. The credibility of deterrence comes from, not only weapons and their delivery platforms, but from perception about political will to carry out the threat. It is here that nobody simply believes India. Indian actions (except very rarely) over the last six decades have not been inspirational (or threatening, depending upon from where you look at them).

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Harish » 20 Nov 2011 13:08

What's wrong with Pakistan?

Where are the IED mubaraks, the blood-curdling cries of Allaho Akbar (followed by a detonation), the Shia-Sunni lovefest, dark-green-upon-light-green action, the inter-gang merrymaking on the potholed streets of Karachi, and the messages of love from the pulpits of the Lal Masjid?

Where are the kendostyx babes, one-eyed mullahs, maulana diesel, the FM mullah, taliban loyal to the government, the talikban loyal to Mullah Omar, and the taliban loyal to only themselves? What are they doing?

Why the lull? How are we Indians supposed to pass the time?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Pratyush » 20 Nov 2011 13:10


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby SSridhar » 20 Nov 2011 13:12

Harish wrote:Why the lull? How are we Indians supposed to pass the time?

Harish, break ki baad.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby menon s » 20 Nov 2011 14:09

INFO Please!

There are some allegations that are flying about Hussain Haqqni, when he was Pakistans ambassador to Srilanka, in 1992-93. It seems like he spilled beans about some covert policy of Pakistan, to the US Ambassador in Srilanka, that almost destroyed the relationship between Pakistan and America? It is in records that he resigned after this. could anyone throw light on this issue please?
Teresita C. Schaffer was the US amb at Colombo in that period.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby shiv » 20 Nov 2011 14:48

SSridhar wrote:The publisher of the largest-circulating Nawa-i-Waqt group of newspapers, Majid Nizami, once expressed his desire to strap himself to a nuclear weapon and be dropped on India. Why should he, who can't help the fission process in anyway, strap himself to the weapon, I don't know.

You have to believe in 2 nation theory to cause fission no?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby menon s » 20 Nov 2011 15:06

Hussain Haqqani`s , skeletons in the cup board?

This is from Bobwood wards book.

Mr. Haqqani told US officials that Pakistanis are ‘rug sellers’ who start high in a bargain and accept peanuts in the end. In another quote, Mr. Haqqani says Pakistan is like a shy woman that wants to have sex but wants some material things first.


need we say anything more? :lol:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Dilbu » 20 Nov 2011 15:14

Pakistan to block 1,700 offensive words in texting
Islamabad: If Pakistan's telecom regulator has its way, millions of mobile phone users may be unable to send text messages with "offensive" and "obscene" words like crap, damn, hobo, flatulence, gay, lesbian and slime from Monday.

These words are part of a list of nearly 1,700 words and terms that the Pakistan Telecommunication Authority (PTA) has deemed as offensive, and wants mobile phone operators to filter from SMS text messages.


Operators have been directed to start blocking text messages containing these words from November 21. While the English list has 148 items containing a four-letter swear word, it has had many scratching their heads by including words and terms like athlete's foot, deposit, black out, drunk, flatulence, glazed donut, harem, Jesus Christ :-? , hostage, murder, penthouse, Satan and "flogging the dolphin".

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Dilbu » 20 Nov 2011 15:19

Millions of kids do not officially exist
Stressing the need for registering all births in Pakistan, the UNICEF said on Saturday that around three million children born in the country each year did not officially exist and their registration was vital to protecting the children’s rights. “Figures for birth registration in Pakistan paint a worrisome picture for children’s rights. According to UNICEF’s 2011 State of the World’s Children report, only 27 percent of total births in Pakistan between 2000 and 2009 were registered,” said a press release issued by UNICEF on the occasion of ‘Make Every Child Count’, which was the theme of this year’s Universal Children’s Day to be observed today (November 20). The UNICEF also said results of other official surveys indicated the worst situation in Balochistan and FATA, where just one percent of children were registered on birth. “The figures for birth registration in other areas are still low and need improvement: Sindh and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (20 per cent); and Pakistan-Administered Kashmir (24 per cent); while Punjab has a higher rate (77 percent) and is closer to universal registration,” said the UN agency for the right of the children. Stressing that birth registration is the first right of every child born in Pakistan, the UNICEF said birth registration was important as it established existence of a child under law and provided the foundation for safeguarding many of the child’s civil, political, economic, social and cultural rights.

So actual population figures are much higher than the ones calculated and published using madrassa maths.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby saadhak » 20 Nov 2011 18:05

Pasha met Ijaz in London on Oct 22
Asked to confirm whether the official who met him on October 22, 2011 was Lt. Gen. Pasha, Ijaz told the newspaper: "Yes."

Ijaz earlier said that the full data and evidence of his contacts with the Pakistani official who asked him to draft the memo has been given to Pakistani authorities. This includes records of phone calls, SMS messages, Blackberry exchanges and emails.
:
The meeting lasted for over four hours and Ijaz was "exhaustively grilled over his claims", the report said.
:
Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani called Gen. Kayani and set up a meeting of the President, Premier and army chief on November 16, 2011.
Gen. Gilani {do they mean Gen. Kiyani or PM Gilani (since ref. to Parliament is made, probably PM Gilani?)}, known for "not harbouring any exceptional love" for Haqqani, also said in Parliament that "ambassador or no ambassador, he will have to come and explain his position"
:
The Pakistan government might officially contact the Blackberry company to obtain certified data and "spare no influence, including cessation of Blackberry services in Pakistan, were the company to act reluctant in complying with the request," the report said.
Last edited by saadhak on 20 Nov 2011 19:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby anupmisra » 20 Nov 2011 18:29



During the past four - five months, despite my travels, I have been thinking along the same lines (hence, my low contribution rate to BRF). My conclusions are similar except for the following changes. Of course, devil's in the details (and all those caveats).

Suggested Changes:

1. PoK: Instead of the entire PoK merging with India, there should be three divisions. Chinese part stays with China (let's be practical). Create a Vatican-style "Kashmir" around Muzzafarabad. The Kashmiri seccessionists can happily be "relocated" here. The rest of PoK (especially around Mirpur and south) to merge with India's Jammu region. Allow Indians to settle in these newly liberated areas.

2. Separate Jammu and Laddakh from J&K to create a new state called J&L (or whatever).

3. Remainder of Indian Kashmir including the valley becomes a Union Territory with a Governor.


PakJab::

1. The Seraiki areas should be separated from Pakjab and granted independence.

2. Remaining Pakjab (especially around Islamabad/Pindi and Lahore, be renamed as New Pakistan. All die hard pakistanis that no one wants are welcome to live in this land locked country. This new country will have an army and police but no air force (only an army air wing). It will also act as a buffer between the Pashtun Afghans and India.

Sindh


1. Tharparkar and Hindu majority areas up to the Sindh River be merged with India (and not remain part of Independent Sindh Desh).

2. Hyderabad will be the capital.

3. Karachi? Working on it.

Balochistan


1. Some parts that are contigious to neighboring states and have similar ethnic populations be given to Iran and Afghanistan.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby Altair » 20 Nov 2011 18:45

[url=http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2011\11\15\story_15-11-2011_pg5_1]Balochistan gold reserves[/url]
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has 1,339.25 tonnes of gold reserves situated in Balochistan with 63.50 tonnes at Saindak and 1275.75 tonnes at Reko Diq, sources told Daily Times on Monday.

These two major gold reserves are situated in district Chagi, Balochistan. The sources further said the Saindak Copper-Gold Project, Balochistan is the only project in the country, which is producing gold/silver as a by-product in a normal quantity. The gold production was 7.891 tonnes and silver 11.293 tonnes during five years from 2005 to 2009. Occurrence and showing of gold and silver had been reported from various parts of the country, including Balochistan, Gilgit-Baltistan and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. However, reserves of these occurrences had not been confirmed except in Saindak and Reko Diq.

In 2006, the production of gold was 1.410 tonnes, while silver was 2.403 tonnes, in 2007 gold was 1.576 tonnes and silver 2.136 tonnes, in 2008 gold was 1.542 tonnes and silver 2.088 tonnes, while in 2009, the gold production was 1.592 tonnes and silver 2.157 tonnes. The country also has rich copper resources, and according to estimates there are about 4.805 billion tonnes copper reserves of which majority are in Balochistan and some nominal quantity in Federally Administered Tribal Area (FATA) and Gilgit-Baltistan. Balochistan’s copper reserves consists of Saindak with 412 million tonnes, Reko Diq 3.720 billion tonnes, Dhasht-e-Kain 200 million tonnes, Ziarat Pir Suyltan 200 million tonnes, Kabul Koh 50 million tonnes, Missi 100 million tonnes and Bandegan 0.032 million tonnes.

About 123 million tonnes of copper reserves in FATA areas Boya, Shinkari-North Waziristan have been found, the sources added. In Gilgit-Baltistan (Bulashgah, Gilgit) 0.5 million tonnes of copper reserves were discovered. Officials in the Ministry of Petroleum and Natural Resources told this scribe that feasibility studies have been conducted for copper-gold projects at Saindak and Reko Diq in the year 1988 and 2010, respectively. The Saindak project is in production since 2003.

Reko Diq deposit is in development phase and government of Balochistan as regulator is processing application for conversion of exploration licence into long-term lease. At present, the officials said two foreign companies are working for the copper-gold deposits, MCC of China on Saindak Project and Tethyan Copper Company, joint venture of government of Balochistan 25 percent, Antofagasta-Chile 37.5 percent and Barrick Gold-Canada 37.5 percent on Reko Diq project.

The officials further said Saindak Copper Gold project is the only productive unit in the country. The government of Balochistan receives royalty at the rate of five percent of sale proceeds and 60 percent share from Saindak Metals Limited/government of Pakistan.

Based on current production level, the annual revenue of the province from this project is estimated at Rs 1.300 billion. As per feasibility study, the life of mine of Reko Diq project is 56 years and estimated annual revenue of government of Balochistan during the above period is $110.8 million, the officials maintained.

However, private sources opposed the Reko Diq project exploration/mining lease to foreign companies. They describe it as the most unfair business deal of the decade, the multi-billion-dollar Reko Diq copper-and-gold project has been placed at the mercy of a consortium of companies who may walk away with its riches, robbing the country of a golden opportunity to lift itself out of its growing external debt. Private sector said that the geologists have estimated that Reko Diq contains mineral deposits worth $500 billion and if the authorities did not take action immediately, this golden opportunity of turning around Pakistan’s fate will be lost.


Someone must have given a Powerpoint presentation to MMS about how India can get a share and snub cheeni.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby SSridhar » 20 Nov 2011 19:23

menon s wrote:Hussain Haqqani`s , skeletons in the cup board?

This is from Bobwood wards book.

Mr. Haqqani told US officials that Pakistanis are ‘rug sellers’ who start high in a bargain and accept peanuts in the end. In another quote, Mr. Haqqani says Pakistan is like a shy woman that wants to have sex but wants some material things first.


need we say anything more?

I am sure that after dealing with Pakistan and its duplicitous behaviour for fifty five years, the US knows everything about this country. Just a couple of months back, Ambassadors Howard & Teresita Schaffer released a book on how Pakistan negotiates.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby abhijitm » 20 Nov 2011 19:31

pakis have habit of saying they have large (if not largest) reserve of coal, natural gas, copper and now gold. Truth is they only have the largest reserve of kalashnikov, rest everything is a myth.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby CRamS » 20 Nov 2011 19:41

SS:

Historically too, Muslim conquerors have subjected the conquered people with utter humiliation, possibly to break their dignity and self-respect.


If you look at how our celebrities, TV channels like Undie, IBN etc are cowered by TSP, especially embracing a war criminal like Mush who never opens his mouth without puking bile on India, or a pervert like Imran Khan, it seems to me at least that TSP has succeeded in breaking the dignity and self respect of that section of Indians. Add to that, routine self flagellation so prevalent among our elite, in the face of unrelenting terror by TSP, what does it tell you?

Yogi:

Can you roughly translate that video in English. The Hindi narrative was rendered a tad too fast for me to catch the meaning.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 201

Postby abhijitm » 20 Nov 2011 19:44

This mem'b'o jumbo is growing funnier
Army, ISI more patriotic than Opposition: Gilani
He said that there is good relation between government and other state institutions and for the first time other institutions have been made accountable to the parliament. He said the military leadership explained certain defence related issues before the parliament for the first time. :lol:

and then
To another question regarding Imran Khan’s growing popularity and his views on keeping the establishment under his control, Gilani said that time will decide as to who has the support of the establishment and what kind of relation of any party’s government is developed with it when they come in power.

yeh, you have the "establishment" under control alright :rotfl:


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