India-China News and Discussion

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Cosmo_R
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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 28 Nov 2011 00:51

The WAPO has a take:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asi ... tml?sub=AR

"A 15th round of talks between leading diplomats from both sides originally scheduled for Monday was called off at the last minute, with Indian media blaming growing "dissonance" after the summit in Bali. Specifically, media reports said China had demanded the Indian government prevent the Dalai Lama from speaking at an international Buddhist conference due to take place in the Indian capital this week, a condition the authorities in New Delhi refused to accept. "

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby saptarishi » 28 Nov 2011 00:59

Cosmo_R wrote:The WAPO has a take:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asi ... tml?sub=AR

"A 15th round of talks between leading diplomats from both sides originally scheduled for Monday was called off at the last minute, with Indian media blaming growing "dissonance" after the summit in Bali. Specifically, media reports said China had demanded the Indian government prevent the Dalai Lama from speaking at an international Buddhist conference due to take place in the Indian capital this week, a condition the authorities in New Delhi refused to accept. "


why should we listen to china,,,brave decision,,dalai lama should speak everywhere

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby Dhiman » 28 Nov 2011 04:07

SSridhar wrote:
harbans wrote:Frankly from the translations i have not seen a single Chinese comment at any analytical level towards the problem between India and China.

I agree with that assessment of harbans. While I do appreciate the efforts of ltaakat in translating, posting, re-translating and re-posting, the quality of replies from our Chinese friends leaves a lot to be desired, almost always. Just scratching the surface or taking a patronizing position won't do. That would not contribute to real 'understanding'.


IMHO Sir, this translating, posting, re-translating and re-posting is a waste of time, it assumes that there is some of sort of exchange of ideas and opinions going on which would ultimately lead to some understanding.

The only problem with that assumption is that most of the Chinese posters who are going to be reading and maybe responding to comments here have absolutely zero say in what the venerated CCP does. They don't matter, their opinions don't count in their own country and they know this. So as far as I am concerned their opinions are "manufactured" and "artificial" - part of standard CCP internet propaganda perhaps and nothing more.

To illustrate my point, let's take this translated reply as an example:
One of the Indian friends claimed that democracy is the ultimate goal, which I would differ. Democracy cannot be the ultimate goal; rather, it is simply a means to achieve the goal, to make life better off for all the people. Let me ask you, which do you prefer, to live an affluent life under a “dictatorship”, or in poverty under “democracy”? I believe ordinary people would prefer living in an economically better-off society, just like the better-off Chinese who would emigrate to Europe, or the United States, rather than to India, even though India is “democratic”.


The poster here is clearly brainwashed with CCP propaganda that somehow china's increasing prosperity is linked to CCP remaining in dictatorial control of China when the fact is that China's increasing economic prosperity is linked to "economic liberalization", i.e "economic freedom", i.e greater devolution of economic power in the hands of people rather than in the hands of a CCP. It's funny how the Chinese posters everywhere keep on repeating the same crap without looking at the dragon in the room: devolution of economic power (i.e greater democracy) in the hands of the people is what lead to to their economic prosperity not CCP's "dicatorial control".

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby shiv » 28 Nov 2011 06:23

Folks this is a keeper for me - Chinese piskology
http://www.dnaindia.com/analysis/report ... 617838-all
On China, former US secretary of state Henry Kissinger traces the origins of China’s “distinctive military theory” to a period of upheaval, when ruthless struggles between rival kingdoms decimated China’s population.

Reacting to this slaughter, Chinese thinkers, he says, developed strategic thought that placed a premium on “victory through psychological advantage” and “preached the avoidance of direct conflict.” What makes China’s case more of an enigma is that it still invokes its millennia old strategic principles in its dealings with the modern world, and fiercely adheres to them.
<snip>
Professor Madhu Bhalla who teaches Chinese Studies at Delhi University says the Chinese “irredentist” attitude towards territory has its roots in China’s history, its ancient philosophy of the “middle kingdom” with a “mandate from heaven,” and with peripheral nations as its vassals. “The ‘century of humiliation’ starting with Britain’s opium wars in the mid-19th century have left a deep mark on the Chinese psyche. So, any attempt at a ‘separation’ of their ‘territory’ reminds them of the past. That history is kept intact in their culture, songs, school syllabus, and cinema. It’s the political folklore in China, and breeds a sense of super-nationalism in the Chinese.”


Avenging of humiliation, and removing the Chinese sense of inadequacy is what the Chinese are doing, in their own unique style.

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 28 Nov 2011 06:37

Saptarishi, please check your syntax, punctuation marks & spelling before posting. Others will discard your posts if you miss out on these simple things. Besides, it will drag down the fair image of this forum too.


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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby Prem » 28 Nov 2011 11:38

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rebeccafann ... ind-china/
Tech Gets Exciting In India, 5 Years Behind China
The only other tech market in Asia that is halfway as exciting as China is India. It has the promise to close the gap with China but is no match yet. India’s mobile market is large, venture spending is vibrant, and high-profile IPOs such as MakeMyTrip are happening, with more on the way soon from up such swift up and comers as mobile ad service inMobi and PC help center iYogi.Plus, India has proven it is rich in R&D and a lot more than outsourcing. Even so, red tape and poor infrastructure hold back the entrepreneurial spirit here. Investors Bill Draper, Lip-Bu Tan, and Sumir Chadha did the trailblazing in India. Today India’s venture leaders such as Ashish Gupta and Sudhir Sethi are looking for the next, new thing in mesmerizing India – the world’s second-fastest-growing economy and Asia’s third-largest economy,During a trip to India, I met founders of startups with advances for everything from detecting lung cancer at an earlier stage to recycling electronic waste in a cost-effective way, to bringing solar power to villagers, to offering superfast mobile searches, to three-dimensional online games, to robotic-powered vacuum cleaners. India’s also become a mecca for low-cost and sometimes jerry-rigged inventions—in Hindi, jugaad. Tata Motors’ tiny Nano car at an itty-bitty price tag of $2,500 and the Indian government-backed tablet computer selling for $35 are some examples. So is my favorite find: a Nokia cell phone with a built-in flashlight. India may not have a Google, Apple, Baidu, or Tencent yet, but it is moving into more technical work than writing software and answering phone.India’s always-on mobile communications, global customer outreach, engineering talent, and thirst for education all spell promise. China may be a nerve center of tech innovation globally but look to India to close the gap with its creative thinking culture.

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 28 Nov 2011 16:38

So, Indian President & PM decide not to attend the Buddhist Conference because the Dalai Lama is scheduled to speak and China wouldn't like it ? The Chinese cleverly scuttled Indian presence in the conference by demanding postponement of the meeting between Special Representatives of India and China.

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 28 Nov 2011 18:12

China warns India against providing a platform for Dalai Lama
China on Monday said it was opposed to any country that "provide[d] a platform" for the Dalai Lama and his "anti-China activities", in the wake of India and China last week postponing the 15th round of border talks following Chinese concerns over a Buddhist conference that was scheduled to take place at the same time in New Delhi.

The Chinese Foreign Ministry said the Dalai Lama, who will speak at the conference, was "not a purely religious figure".

India and China postponed the boundary talks, which were to take place in New Delhi on November 28 and November 29, after New Delhi said it would not accede to Chinese demands to either push back or cancel this week's Buddhist conference.

While Indian officials had told their Chinese counterparts the meeting was religious and not political, China has not accepted their view.

China views the exiled Tibetan religious leader as a "splittist" who is campaigning for Tibetan independence. The Dalai Lama, however, says he does not seek independence in Tibet, and wants China to give Tibetans "genuine autonomy" in religious, cultural and educational spheres.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hong Lei on Monday did not specifically say if China had expressed its opposition to the Buddhism conference being held at the same time as the border talks, although he made clear China's opposition to India giving the Tibetan religious leader "a platform."

"I want to point out that the Dalai Lama is not a purely religious figure but the one who has been engaged in separatist activities for a long time, under the pretext of religion," Mr. Hong said. "We oppose any country that provides a platform for his anti-China activities in any form."

Indian and Chinese officials have, however, played down the postponement of the talks, maintaining that no dates had, in the first instance, been formally announced. Indian officials said they believed the talks would place in "the near future."

Mr. Hong said both sides were "in communication on relevant issues" regarding the border talks, and were also discussing the "specific agenda" of the meeting. China, he added, paid "great attention" to the next round of talks with India.

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 28 Nov 2011 19:40

China: World super-power in warning everyone about anything and everything! *dhoti shiver*

China warns: 1,670,000
US warns: 1,380,000
Russia warns: 915,000
UK warns: 642,000
Japan warns: 509,000
Pakistan warns: 374,000
India warns: 301,000
France warns: 243,000
Australia warns: 243,000

Be warned! ... some fun with Google :)

Added later: After double checking, I'm sorry to say that Russia loses warning superpower #2 status.
Last edited by PratikDas on 28 Nov 2011 23:20, edited 2 times in total.

harbans
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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby harbans » 28 Nov 2011 21:41

Pratik Ji, with Pakistan warns i get 52 million results...
China around 73 m and US 48 m

Really doesn't matter. India behaved like a lamb. China does not have the right to tell us what to think. It can go screw off.

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby SwamyG » 29 Nov 2011 00:38

Another take on the Buddhist meet.
http://www.samachar.com/India-China-bat ... r_homepage
The sudden decision of India and China to drop the meeting of their special representatives only a day before it was scheduled in Beijing has brought a cold war on Buddhism out in the open.

China decided to drop the meeting as New Delhi reportedly turned down its demand to keep the Dalai Lama away from a four-day Global Buddhist Congregation that began in New Delhi Sunday. This glitch automatically puts off the later defence secretary level annual dialogue of Dec 8-9.

Both sides have publicly downplayed the issue but there is far more behind the scene than what meets the public eye.

The Chinese leadership is determined to make China the supreme Buddhist power. The sudden love affair with Buddhism arises more from anxieties related to the Tibetan spiritual ruler Dalai Lama, than a change in heart on religion.

China's Communist rulers are focused at building up enough credibility in the international Buddhist community to have their way on the selection of the Dalai Lama's new incarnation before he dies. The Chinese believe that a friendly Dalai Lama will solve their Tibet knot that has found frequent expression through public uprisings and self-immolation sprees since 1951.

It was the unexpected Tibetan uprising of 1989 that made Chinese leaders realise that a Tibetan generation who had never seen the Dalai Lama and who grew on daily staple of Communist propaganda was to blame. Following a serious review at the third 'Tibet Work Forum' in 1991, China adopted a new policy in Tibet which accepts religion as a tool of winning hearts.

As part of this strategy, Chinese Communists have selected at least two top ranking lama incarnations of Karma Pa and Panchen Lama in 1993 and 1995 respectively. Gedhun Choeky Nyima, the six-year-old who was recognized by the Dalia Lama as the 'real' Panchen Lama, still remains under Chinese custody 18 years later.

While Chinese candidate Giancin Norbu has yet to be accepted by Tibetan masses, the Karma Pa escaped to India to join the Dalia Lama on the eve of New Year of 2000.

To the supporters of the Dalai Lama, the selection of these two senior incarnate lamas are dress rehearsals for China to impose a baby of its own choice as the Dalai Lama once the incumbent is no more.

Leaving behind Mao's distaste for religion, Beijing hosted the first World Buddhist Forum in 2006 in Zhejian province and the second in March 2009 in Wuxi. The latter attracted over 1,700 delegates from 50 countries. In both meetings, Giancin Norbu was paraded as the senior most representative of Buddhism in the world.

This aggressive marketing by China as the real Buddhist powerhouse of the world has not gone down well with India, where the Buddha attained enlightenment. New Delhi too has launched its own Buddhist conferences in Singapore, Cambodia and Sri Lanka. There will be similar shows in Nepal and Vietnam.

While the current posturing by New Delhi and Beijing over border dialogue shows where their real concerns lie, the new religious theatre is bound to lead to new fireworks.

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby saptarishi » 29 Nov 2011 00:42

SwamyG wrote:Another take on the Buddhist meet.
http://www.samachar.com/India-China-bat ... r_homepage
The sudden decision of India and China to drop the meeting of their special representatives only a day before it was scheduled in Beijing has brought a cold war on Buddhism out in the open.

China decided to drop the meeting as New Delhi reportedly turned down its demand to keep the Dalai Lama away from a four-day Global Buddhist Congregation that began in New Delhi Sunday. This glitch automatically puts off the later defence secretary level annual dialogue of Dec 8-9.

Both sides have publicly downplayed the issue but there is far more behind the scene than what meets the public eye.

The Chinese leadership is determined to make China the supreme Buddhist power. The sudden love affair with Buddhism arises more from anxieties related to the Tibetan spiritual ruler Dalai Lama, than a change in heart on religion.

China's Communist rulers are focused at building up enough credibility in the international Buddhist community to have their way on the selection of the Dalai Lama's new incarnation before he dies. The Chinese believe that a friendly Dalai Lama will solve their Tibet knot that has found frequent expression through public uprisings and self-immolation sprees since 1951.

It was the unexpected Tibetan uprising of 1989 that made Chinese leaders realise that a Tibetan generation who had never seen the Dalai Lama and who grew on daily staple of Communist propaganda was to blame. Following a serious review at the third 'Tibet Work Forum' in 1991, China adopted a new policy in Tibet which accepts religion as a tool of winning hearts.

As part of this strategy, Chinese Communists have selected at least two top ranking lama incarnations of Karma Pa and Panchen Lama in 1993 and 1995 respectively. Gedhun Choeky Nyima, the six-year-old who was recognized by the Dalia Lama as the 'real' Panchen Lama, still remains under Chinese custody 18 years later.

While Chinese candidate Giancin Norbu has yet to be accepted by Tibetan masses, the Karma Pa escaped to India to join the Dalia Lama on the eve of New Year of 2000.

To the supporters of the Dalai Lama, the selection of these two senior incarnate lamas are dress rehearsals for China to impose a baby of its own choice as the Dalai Lama once the incumbent is no more.

Leaving behind Mao's distaste for religion, Beijing hosted the first World Buddhist Forum in 2006 in Zhejian province and the second in March 2009 in Wuxi. The latter attracted over 1,700 delegates from 50 countries. In both meetings, Giancin Norbu was paraded as the senior most representative of Buddhism in the world.

This aggressive marketing by China as the real Buddhist powerhouse of the world has not gone down well with India, where the Buddha attained enlightenment. New Delhi too has launched its own Buddhist conferences in Singapore, Cambodia and Sri Lanka. There will be similar shows in Nepal and Vietnam.

While the current posturing by New Delhi and Beijing over border dialogue shows where their real concerns lie, the new religious theatre is bound to lead to new fireworks.


what will a communist nation understand regarding religion

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby RamaY » 29 Nov 2011 00:49

PratikDas wrote:China: World super-power in warning everyone about anything and everything! *dhoti shiver*

China warns: 1,670,000
US warns: 1,380,000
Russia warns: 915,000
UK warns: 642,000
Japan warns: 509,000
Pakistan warns: 374,000
India warns: 301,000
France warns: 243,000
Australia warns: 243,000

Be warned! ... some fun with Google :)

Added later: After double checking, I'm sorry to say that Russia loses warning superpower #2 status.


Make it per-capita warnings and you get the real sense of paranoia in the society....

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 29 Nov 2011 02:38

SwamyG wrote:Another take on the Buddhist meet.
http://www.samachar.com/India-China-bat ... r_homepage
The sudden decision of India and China to drop the meeting of their special representatives only a day before it was scheduled in Beijing has brought a cold war on Buddhism out in the open.

The Chinese leadership is determined to make China the supreme Buddhist power. The sudden love affair with Buddhism arises more from anxieties related to the Tibetan spiritual ruler Dalai Lama, than a change in heart on religion.

China's Communist rulers are focused at building up enough credibility in the international Buddhist community to have their way on the selection of the Dalai Lama's new incarnation before he dies. The Chinese believe that a friendly Dalai Lama will solve their Tibet knot that has found frequent expression through public uprisings and self-immolation sprees since 1951.....


I referred to this earlier:

"I have always felt that 'Religion' could be India's 'assassin's mace' WRT to PRC. I mean, we have Buddhism, lots of Gurus/Seers and spiritualists. We even have Bahai. Beaming spirituality to the Chinese am admi will create a signal that competes with the monotonous drone from CCP.

There's nothing like religion to create 'splittists'"

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5580&p=1069620&hilit=+PRC#p1069620

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby Prem » 29 Nov 2011 10:09

http://micgadget.com/18427/chinglish-ha ... nce-price/
Note the use of Indian Numerals

The most unknown price on earth — “Exoeriernce price”, it is originated by a Chinese hair salon located in Shanghai. They offer “Wash Cut Blow”, “Hair Color” and “Wave Hair” services…Let’s exoeriernce.
Image

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 29 Nov 2011 14:45

India-China defence talks next month: Krishna
Krishna proposes, will China dispose under some pretext ?
Postponement of Sino-India border talks between Special Representatives notwithstanding, India today said its high-level defence dialogue with China would take place next month as planned earlier.

"I think, we expect whatever is in the pipeline will continue," External Affairs Minister S M Krishna told reporters on the sidelines of Passport Officers' Conference here.

He was responding to a question on whether the defence dialogue between India and China, scheduled to be held here on December 8 and 9, would take place and if it help resume military exchanges between the two countries. Defence secretaries of India and China would meet here on those two days and discuss issues of mutual interest.

The comments of Krishna, who met India's Ambassador to China S Jaishankar this morning, assume significance in the wake of the talks between Special Representatives of India and China scheduled to have taken place yesterday and today being postponed. The talks were postponed after China objected to the presence of the Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama at a Buddhist conference here.

"Our Ambassador to China was here for regular consultations with the Foreign Office. He had also come prepared to assist the government if the talks between Special Representatives of India and China discussing the border issues were to be held. I think, now the meeting is postponed," he said.


What is this 'I think' business ? Isn't he sure about the meeting next month (or, is China still keeping him on tenterhooks ?) and about the meeting that is already called off ? What is there to 'think' about the called-off meeting ?

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby Vipul » 30 Nov 2011 03:16

Japan firm's map shows Tibet as part of India.

A map drawn by a Japanese firm shows Tibet as part of India. The cartograph also shows China's southwestern Yunnan province as belonging to India, according to the web news portal wantchinatimes.com

The map was made by Daiwa Securities Group as part of its business proposal to the People Insurance Company of China (PICC).
PICC officials who found the error have asked Daiwa to modify the map and make a formal apology.

They also reported the matter to the China Securities Regulatory Commission and the China Insurance Regulatory Commission, which are currently discussing the next course of action, Daiwa said the error was "negligent" but some security experts pointed out it cannot be excused just as "unprofessionalism".

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 30 Nov 2011 09:52

Behind postponed talks, China sees a newly assertive India
The postponement of the 15th round of border talks, following India's refusal to accede to Chinese demands to reschedule a Buddhist conference that was organised on the same dates and involved the Dalai Lama, has been seen in China as part of a trend of India taking an increasingly “bold” and assertive position on disputes.

State media and Chinese analysts on Tuesday appeared to dismiss suggestions that the holding of the Buddhist conference in New Delhi in the same week as the visit of Chinese State Councillor Dai Bingguo, China's Special Representative on the border negotiations, was accidental and not political, as Indian officials had said.

The Communist Party-run Global Times , in an editorial on Tuesday, described India as beginning to adopt “a bold stance when dealing with China” and an approach that was “a bit pushy,” in reference to the boundary talks and recent differences over India's cooperation with Vietnam on exploration projects in the disputed South China Sea.

“The country appears to be highly interested in facing off with China,” the newspaper said, however adding that China needed “to treat [India] seriously.”

The newspaper, known for its nationalistic views, struck a moderate tone in the editorial, calling for both countries to settle their differences and “keep the border issue from worsening by focusing on keeping goodwill talks alive.”

The border talks, as well as the South China Sea issue, have led to the perception among Chinese analysts of India beginning to take a different, more assertive approach.

“If the holding of the 15th round of border talks coincides with the Buddhist conference in New Delhi, which the Dalai Lama will attend, then it is really not a coincidence. It could be regarded as a purposed arrangement,” Hu Shisheng, a leading South Asia scholar at the China Institutes for Contemporary International Relations (CICIR), a Beijing think tank, told The Hindu .

“Because border talks are of so much importance, how could the Dalai Lama's participation [be] pure coincidence? Who is foolish enough to believe that?”

Shen Dingli, director of the Centre for American Studies at Fudan University, told The Hindu that China would view the holding of the conference, at the same time as the talks, as a provocation considering Chinese sensitivities on Tibet.

Mr. Hu said because China sees India as using the Dalai Lama in the long-running border dispute to boost claims, it would find it difficult to accept Indian officials' statements that the holding of the conference, although one of many that the Tibetan religious leader regularly attends, was without a message.

“From China's side, Indian governments, in the past successive years, have utilised the Dalai Lama to legalise India's claim on the disputed territories,” he said. “We can see these developments, such as Indian governments encouraging the Dalai Lama to revisit Tawang [in Arunachal Pradesh, which China has claims on] once and again, [forcing] Dalai to support India's territorial claim publicly, etc.”

Mr. Shen and Mr. Hu said they also did not see India's involvement in the South China projects as “purely commercial” — as India has suggested — echoing recent editorials by influential State-run media that saw India looking to take sides with China's neighbours.

“We try to believe that ONGC's involvement is purely out of commercial purpose, but the involvement itself has in fact enhanced the argument from Vietnam on its claim upon its disputed waters,” Mr. Hu said, drawing a comparison with India's objections to Chinese projects in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK), viewed as China taking sides over the Kashmir dispute.

However, the consensus among Chinese analysts and the media is that these disputes, while creating temporary strains, would not derail the overall development of ties. Mr. Hu said they were likely to have “some spill over effects” and “some negative bearings.”

The Global Times said that behind the mistrust was common anxieties. While India feared Chinese encirclement, China, too, similarly viewed India as part of a U.S.-led containment strategy.

“Both countries should avoid overreacting to their disputes, but that does not mean these issues should be hidden away,” the newspaper said. “What we need to do is not aggravate it.”


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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby merlin » 30 Nov 2011 12:10

A chill wintry wind blows across China-India relations

B Raman weighs in with his thoughts. The last line is the reason why so many China watchers in India piss in their pants at the very thought of not toeing China's line.

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby SwamyG » 30 Nov 2011 21:44

The Travel Records of Chinese Pilgrims Faxian, Xuanzang, and Yijing SOURCES FOR CROSS-CULTURAL ENCOUNTERS BETWEEN ANCIENT CHINA AND ANCIENT INDIA By Professor Tansen Sen.

http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/special/t ... ecords.pdf
The spread of Buddhist doctrines from India to China beginning sometime in the first century CE triggered a profusion of cross-cultural exchanges that had a profound impact on Asian and world history. The travels of Buddhist monks and pilgrims and the simultaneous circulation of religious texts and relics not only stimulated interactions between the Indian kingdoms and various regions of China, but also influenced people living in Central and Southeast Asia. Indeed, the transmission of Buddhist doctrines from India to China was a complex process that involved multiple societies and a diverse group of people, including missionaries, itinerant traders, artisans, and medical professionals.

1: Chinese pilgrims played a key role in the exchanges between ancient India and ancientChina.They introduced new texts and doctrines to the Chinese clergy, carried Buddhist paraphernalia for the performance of rituals and ceremonies, and provided detailed accounts of their spiritual journeys to India. Records of Indian society and its virtuous rulers, accounts of the flourishing monastic institutions, and stories about the magical and miraculous prowess of the Buddha and his disciples often accompanied the descriptions of the pilgrimage sites in their travel records. In fact, these travel records contributed to the development of a unique perception of India among members of the Chinese clergy. For some, India was a sacred, even Utopian, realm. Others saw India as a mystical land inhabited by “civilized” and sophisticated people. In the context of Chinese discourse on foreign peoples, who were often described as uncivilized and barbaric, these accounts significantly elevated the Chinese perception of Indian society.

2 Faxian, Xuanzang, and Yijing were among hundreds of Chinese monks who made pilgrimages to India during the first millennium CE. The detailed accounts of their journeys make them more famous than others. These travel records are important historical resources for several reasons. First, they provide meticulous accounts of the nature of Buddhist doctrines, rituals, and monastic institutions in South, Central, and Southeast Asia. Second, they contain vital information about the social and political conditions in South Asia and kingdoms situated on the routes between China and India. Third, they offer remarkable insights into cross-cultural perceptions and interactions. Additionally, these accounts throw light on the arduous nature of long-distance travel, commercial exchanges, and the relationship between Buddhist pilgrims and itinerant merchants.

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby lakshmikanth » 01 Dec 2011 07:27

It seems that our bilathels are also using tunnels to store the nuke bums:

http://www.dnaindia.com/academy/report_ ... ns_1619546
According to the Washington Post, the students have translated hundreds of documents, combed through satellite imagery, obtained restricted Chinese military documents and waded through hundreds of gigabytes of online data about the tunnels dug by the Second Artillery Corps, a secretive branch of the Chinese military in charge of protecting and deploying its ballistic missiles and nuclear warheads.

The 363-page study has not yet been released, but already it has sparked a congressional hearing and been circulated among top officials in the Pentagon, including the Air Force vice chief of staff.


Hopefully our folks are also doing the same.

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 01 Dec 2011 16:41

West Bengal Governor ignores China's objection on Dalai Lama Function
Ignoring China's objections, West Bengal Governor M K Narayanan on Thursday attended a programme addressed by the Dalai Lama who was dismissive of Beijing's opposition to him, saying it was "quite routine".

Chief Minister Mamata Banerjee, who was scheduled to attend the event on Mother Teresa could not do so as her mother was unwell but deputed Trinamool Congress member of Parliament Derek O' Brien for it.

Brien said, "That is the only reason that Banerjee is not here. She would have been here 200 per cent. But her mother is not well". {It would have been appropriate if Ms. Mamta Banerjee had indeed attended}

The chief minister conveyed goodwill to the Dalai Lama not only from the people of Kolkata but also from the people of Bengal, he said.

In an unusual move, the Chinese consulate here had written to the state government asking it to ensure that the CM and Governor did not attend the programme.

Asked about the Chinese consulate's letter, Narayanan retorted, "What do you expect me to do about it? If they have written to the Chief Secretary, they have written."

India had refused to accede to China's insistence that the Tibetan spiritual leader should not be allowed to attend a Buddhist congregation in Delhi, leading to last minute postponement of the border talks which were to be held last Monday.

The Dalai Lama had addressed the Delhi meet on Wednesday but made no political comments. Asked by reporters about Chinese objections, he said these were quite routine as Beijing considered him a "demon" even though he is now "semi-retired".

"This is quite routine. From their point of view it is also logical. Some Chinese officials consider me as a demon. They raise every objection," he said.

Asked if he expected this kind of reaction from the Chinese government, the Dalai Lama quipped, "I have faced this before. I don't want to comment on the letter from the Chinese consulate."

"This year in March I formally, officially handed over the political leadership. I am no longer a leader of political administration. So, I don't like to politicise my visit here," he remarked.

Prasad
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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby Prasad » 01 Dec 2011 23:23

WTF are they doing writing directly to state government officials? Shouldn't they be talking to the MEA and MEA alone?

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby KLNMurthy » 02 Dec 2011 01:13

Prasad wrote:WTF are they doing writing directly to state government officials? Shouldn't they be talking to the MEA and MEA alone?

They are peacefully rising only, flendly thing for babus would have been to kowtow when firman comes from Celestial Kingdom.

May our black gaijin God grant they will keep up their public displays of naked arrogance.

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 02 Dec 2011 02:24

The Dragon's ranting and raving against HH the Dalai Lama,reminds me of that unforgettable picture of the unrmed protestor faccing off Chinese tanks at Tian-an-Men sq. when the Chinese massacred thousands of unarmed protestors.HH the DL is today like that unarmed protesttor,facing off the Dragon's crude attempt to try and hijack Budddhism for its own grandiose ambitions.It is exquisitelt ironic how a Godless Communist dictatorship,with the legacy of murdering millions of its own people down the last 50 years,is now trying to "promote" a Buddhist centre at the birthplace of the Buddha,Lumbini in Nepal! Its Nepalse crony is the Maoist leader Prachanda,overeager to to do his master's bidding and hand over his country lock,stock and barrel to the Midddle Kingdom.Persecution of Tibetans in Nepal by the govt. of Prachanda merely mirrors what is happening in Tibet,where the extreme persecution of Tibetans,especially the monks,is seeing them commit self-immolation in increasing numbers.
A hypocritical western world merely watches,preferring to do business with the Dragon,while bullsh*tting on human rights elesewhere on the planet ranting and railing like the Dragon against chosen weaker states and rulers whom it wishes to dislodge.

India's unusually strong stand against the Dragon ,giving it the upturned finger,at its outrageous audacity,temerity and effrontery in trying to tell India what it can and cannot do on its own soil,desrves a hearty round of applause.One hopes that this new found display of courage and determination, not to be cowed down by the intestinal parasites of the PRC,is not a passing breeze,but a new policy by the MEA/GOI to call a spade a spade with the hyper-ventilating barbarian-brigands of Beijing,who think that they are the suzerain lords of Asia and beyond.

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 02 Dec 2011 03:38

He should have had the Chief Secy return the letter to the Consulate as it could have been sent by mistake.

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 02 Dec 2011 03:52

Yes,it betrays either a singular breach of protocol,or displaying an unimaginable level of insolence and contempt for the Indian republic.Remember the crude,rude comment from the PRC's ambassador "shut-uppa-your-frace-la!" earlier ? This joker too should've been sent home.

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby SwamyG » 02 Dec 2011 04:30

Cosmo: At one point in time, China looked up at India. While it considered its other neighbors as barbarians, it considered India cultured. Monks came out of their own volition search for religious text books and to learn from India. While other times, Kings sent monks and traders to India. Chinese, when they say 'religion' came from the West; mean India as the West. India was sought for both material and spiritual gains.

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby Prem » 02 Dec 2011 04:40

http://www.businessinsider.com/man-with ... ge-2011-12
'Man Without Money Is Garbage': This Video Is Going Viral In China

Recently a viral video broke out on the Internet: In a crowded subway, a woman was angrily cursing at a man, apparently her boyfriend, sitting next to her.The woman speaking in a typical Beijing accent continuously scolded her boyfriend, said “man without money is garbage” and do not dream to marry her without money.Though being verbally abused in public, wearing a hat, boyfriend kept his head down quietly.Girlfriend did not stop cursing, and called the man “useless” for not responding. Finally, the woman said they are through and stormed off the subway

(interesting discusion in the link)
[youtube]czGQPIKkdAU&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby Hari Seldon » 02 Dec 2011 06:51

^^^That vid is going viral in cheen is it? Makes me wonder "Why this Kolaveri, Di?"


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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby sum » 02 Dec 2011 11:12

As i had predicted, MKB gets his chaddi in a twist when India stands upto China and wails and moans about it:

India’s China policy needs a reset

The Indian columnists have begun openly writing what some of us at least might have secretly suspected all along for the past one week - and didn’t want to say publicly. The great all-world Buddhist enclave in Delhi this week which ship-wrecked the India-China border talks between Special Representative Shiv Shankar Menon of India Dai Bingguo of China was, after all, a government-of-India affair.
Now, hold on to your chair if I say something more: The Buddhist meet was actually the brainchild of India’s spymasters. Now, take a deep, long breath, but don’t gasp: MEA was the spymasters’s comrade-in-arms, the enterprise’s co-sponsor.
Can you comprehend the gravity of the stupidity? India has delegated Lord Buddha to the spooks and small-time bureaucrats. It is sacrilege. Millions of Buddhist followers of Sri Lanka, Thailand, South Korea and Japan will be horrified. Panditji, if I recall correctly, once wrote that Buddha was the “finest flower” of the Indian civilisation. He indeed used words to that effect. What depravity we have come to now that we celebrate the 2600th anniversary of Buddha’s ‘Enlightenment’ in this fashion under the patronage of spooks!
But, other issues also arise. First, I can’t comprehend the agenda in the minds of our spymasters and China hands. If it is to juxtappose Buddhism with China - like US did in the cold war era by pitting socialism against Islam - it isn’t going to work. China is actually claiming the Buddhist heritage with greater elan than India. Its Lumbini project in Nepal will put India to shame. With all these years of exclusive friendship with Nepal, Delhi failed to anticipate that there could be some day a Himalayan puncture to its pretensions as the inheritor of Buddha’s legacy. More so, now even Amartya Sen seems exasperated with the muddle-headed way we are going about putting up the Nalanda University in Bihar.
Second, conceivably, the ill-fated enterprise was launched with PMO’s knowledge and concurrence. After all, President Pratibha Patil and PM Manmohan Singh were invited to the inaugural ceremony. Now, that brings us to Menon. Was he in the loop? It must be one of the macabre jokes of India’s diplomatic history if he was party to sabotaging his own talks with Dai. I fervently hope he stuck to file work and insisted on being kept in the dark.
Third, it is now onward virtually impossible for us to whip up anti-China propaganda and then claim India is a free society and the government has nothing to do with the cacophony. Perhaps, Beijing never quite believed the government’s protestation all along, but now onward the stance would only look plain dissimulation. In short, we ‘lost’ the much-needed cloud cover for staging anti-China propaganda.
If a popular TV channel tomorrow features another high-pitch bout of China-bashing, Beijing might even suspect that the anchorperson is in the secret pay of the spooks. In short, it is a ’systemic’ loss, since propaganda has its proper uses in diplomacy against adversarial powers and it needs to be handled in a sophisticated way. Debasing propaganda with crudity is simply appalling.
Fourth, even if a minor point, it was inappropriate to have dragged Dalai Lama into this ’spookish’ venture. He wouldn’t probably like to be known in this way. Patil and Manmohan Singh did the right thing by dissociating when they got wind of the state of play. But, Dalai Lama being an excessively polite man, probably didn’t want to embarrass his hosts. Do not overplay the ‘Dalai Lama card’.
Finally, all this brings us to a huge issue: ‘What is our China policy?’ This ridiculous mishap wouldn’t have occured if we indeed had a China policy. I think it is time to rescue it from our spooks and ’China hands’. China is a rising power, which the world community takes very, very seriously - including the United States, by the way. In particular, China will ever remain India’s next-door neighbour and India has many serious, intractable disputes to settle with that country.
India shouldn’t trivialise its relationship with China, because this relationship is going to be in the very first circle of India’s foreign policy for many decades to come. Do away with this roller-coaster ride passing for India’s celebrated ‘competitition-cum-cooperation’ policy toward China. There is indeed sufficient space available for India and China to live side by side, to get rid of their curse of poverty and to develop.
What India needs is a predictable normalisation with China, which would give clarity to the country’s external environment and help it focus on the core issues of growth and development. It should be a continuous process.
So, what do we do now to clean up the debris? PM should use the ‘hot line’ he has with Beijing to good purpose. There is need to put a call through to Wen Jiabao and get the SRs’ meeting back on track. Good that Beijing didn’t over-react to the insult. :-? :-? Rescue the China policy from the ‘China hands’ in the Indian establishment. Ask the spooks to stick to their job and not to pretend they have become the CIA.

Sounds striaght out of a CCP article!!

Bad India needled so much but super China just didnt react to provocation etc...and this guy was a Indian diplomat.

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby member_20617 » 02 Dec 2011 14:53

China has illegally occupied Akshai Chin gifted by Pakistan and Chinese military is in POK. Both these territories are our land and on top of that China makes claim on Arunachal Pradesh!

Why are we so defensive? We should also make counter claims on Tibet, Sichuan and Yunnan. If Chinese can make absurd claims, so can we. It also helps in negotiation. I am sure RajeshA would like this approach!

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby Suppiah » 02 Dec 2011 15:15

How many different ways there are to say "surrender to China"? Ask the Stalinist rapist goon traitors and their foreign policy advisers.

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 02 Dec 2011 15:45

Oooh! What a precious puppy that writer is! Can't he "comprehend the gravity of stupidity" of a Godless,Communist dictatorship that gave us Tian-an-Men Sq.,persecutes its dissidents and artists,has zero-tolerance to any criticism of its dictatorship of a billion+ people,that forces monks in Tibet to immolate themselves,(we won't mention anything about the "Weeghers" here),this nation with leaders with such bloodstained hands,have actually had the temerity to promote an international "Buddhist Centre" at the birthplace of lord Buddha,Lumbini in Nepal with the connivance of a fellow Maoist crony Prachanda!

India,on the other hand,the land that gave the world the Buddha and his teachings,has every right to sponsor an international meet on Buddhism,and even if our MEA and R&AW were the organisers,there is nothing wrong in protecting Buddhism from those ,the Chinese in particular,who have tried to put in place "Buddhist" pretenders to replace the Dalai Lama and others enior Tibetan monks,head of their sects.Buddhism today is under threat from the Chinese and if red quislings in our land prefer to defend the Chinese,then why don't they migrate to yellow pastures? I do know a western gent who actually did just that at the height of the Communist days in that land,dyed red in the wool Commie,who ended up leaving a bitter and disillusioned comrade.

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby AjitK » 02 Dec 2011 19:05

Dealing with the dragon - Sumit Ganguly

A third possible strategy might require a significant effort to bolster the country’s indigenous defence capabilities and to demonstrate its diplomatic steadfastness. To some degree, this option is actually being pursued on both diplomatic and military fronts. India has not given in to Chinese demands that it cease and desist from prospecting for hydrocarbons off the coast of Vietnam. It has also chosen to build a new air base in Tezpur and has started to upgrade border roads in the Northeast. These are clear signs that the country has started to gird its loins when faced with Chinese hostility on multiple fronts. Earlier it had chosen to help build a port at Char Bahar in Iran as the PRC moved to complete one at Gwadar in Baluchistan. India has also ramped up its ties with Myanmar to counter the widespread Chinese presence in the country.

The third strategy, at least at the present moment, perhaps makes the most sense for New Delhi given the constraints of its domestic political culture. However, it would be myopic to simply rely on one’s internal military and diplomatic capabilities to counter an increasingly assertive PRC. Instead, despite its long-standing aversion to the very concept of alliances, New Delhi would be wise to strengthen various strategic partnerships. To that end, instead of merely invoking the concept, it should give corporeal meaning to some key strategic relationships, including those with the United States, Australia and Japan. All these states share India’s concerns, albeit to varying degrees, about the dramatic and uncertain rise of the PRC. Consequently, it would make much strategic sense to start to quietly institutionalising military to military contacts with these states, to broaden the scope of existing military exercises and to organise routine diplomatic contacts to discuss common issues of concern. Obviously, India has taken various steps towards these ends already. However, they have been both cautious and incremental at best.


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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby Arjun » 03 Dec 2011 09:49


As the world’s most dammed country, China is already the...

Interesting turn of phrase from BC !

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Re: India-China News and Discussion

Postby kmkraoind » 07 Dec 2011 00:32

Stepping up pressure, China blames Dharamshala for self-immolations - The Hindu

“The so-called Tibetan ‘government-in-exile' is anxious about its failing efforts to split China; therefore, it has taken advantage of the lives of young monks and nuns to put pressure on the Chinese government,” it said.

China had accused “the Dalai group” for not criticising the self-immolations by young monks and “playing up” the issue to incite more people to follow suit, labelling it as “terrorism in disguise.”


What a lahori logic. It seems the new STD called "Lahori Logic or L2" had been thought to be transmitted from Pak to China, now with the recent stress test, it had been confirmed.


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