Indian Interests

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 23 Dec 2011 10:13

Doesn't it show that opposition to economic reform is anti-Dalit? Indian constitution with its socialist character is anti-Dalit only. Also Nehru-Gandhis and Communist party are anti-Dalit.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 24 Dec 2011 07:49

Muslims unexcited, Christians say no gains

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 24 Dec 2011 08:22

Slice of OBC quota not enough: Muslim leaders

Approximately 80 per cent of the Muslims are either OBCs or “Dalit-type Muslims”, he added.

Deoband, AIMPLB seek more quota

What is a "Dalit-type Muslim"? Please enlighten me.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 24 Dec 2011 23:07

An empress of India in new clothes

12 Nov 2010 12:54:07 AM IST

Like Sonia Gandhi, I am a Westerner and a brought-up Christian. Like Sonia Gandhi, I have lived in India many years and I have adopted this country as my own.

But the comparison ends there. I did land in India with a certain amount of prejudices, clichés and false ideas, and I did think in the enthusiasm of my youth to become a missionary to bring back Indian ‘pagans’ to the ‘true god’. But the moment I stepped in India I felt that there was nothing much that I could give to India, rather it was India which was bestowing me. In fact in all my years here India has given me so much — professionally, spiritually, sentimentally. Most Westerners, who come here, still think they are here to ‘give’ something to a country, which, unconsciously of course, they think is lesser than theirs. It was true of the British, it was true of Mother Teresa, it is true of Sonia Gandhi.

It is a fact that Sonia brought discipline, order and cohesion into the Indian National Congress. But the amount of power that she, a person of foreign origin, an elected MP like hundreds of others, possesses should frighten her. All the television channels report without a blink that Maharashtra CM rushes to Delhi to meet Sonia Gandhi to plead for his life. But should not Chavan have gone to the prime minister first?

The CBI blatantly and shamelessly quashed all injunctions against Ottavio Quattrocchi and even allowed him to get away with billions of rupees which he had stolen from India. Yet, without batting an eyelid, and with the Indian media turning a blind eye, it goes ruthlessly after the chief minister of the most efficiently run state, the most corruption free. Today the Congress, with Sonia’s overt or silent consent, pays crores of rupees to buy MPs to topple non-Congress governments. Her governors shamelessly hijack democracy by twisting the law.

Are Indians aware that their country has entered a state of semi-autocracy where every important decision comes from a single individual residing in her fortress of 10 Janpath surrounded by dozens of security men, an empress of India? Do they know that the huge amounts of the scams, whether the 2G, the CWG, or the Adarsh housing society scam, do not go into politicians’ pockets (only a fraction), but to the coffers of the Congress for the next general elections, and more than anything to please Sonia Gandhi? Nobody seems to notice what is happening under the reign of Sonia Gandhi.

That an Arundhati Roy is allowed to preach secession in India, whereas on the other hand the Congress government has been going after the army, the last body in India to uphold the time-honoured values of the Kshatriyas — courage, honour, devotion to the Motherland. They alone today practise true secularism, never differentiating between a Muslim or Hindu soldier and who for a pittance daily give their lives to their country. First it was the attempt of a caste census, a divide-and-rule ploy if there is one; then there are the first signs that the government is thinking about thinning down the presence of the Indian army in the Kashmir valley, which will suit Pakistan perfectly. And now there is the Adarsh housing society scam in which the army officers, at the worst, were innocently dragged into it. We know now that it was the politicians of the Congress who benefited the most out of it.

It would be impossible in France, for example, to have a non-Christian tell a Hindu (who is a non-elected president or PM) to be the absolute ruler of the country behind the scenes, superseding even the PM. There are many capable people in the Congress. Why can’t a billion Indians find one of their own, who will understand the complexity and subtlety of India, to govern themselves? Not only that, but her very presence at the top has unleashed forces, visible and invisible that are detrimental to the country. There is nothing wrong in espousing the best of the values of the West — democracy, technological perfection, higher standards of living — but many of the institutions are crumbling in the West: two out of three marriages end in divorce, kids shoot each other, parents are not cared for in their old age, depression is rampant and Westerners are actually looking for answers elsewhere, in India notably.

One does not understand this craze to Westernise India at all costs, while discarding its ancient values. Sonia Gandhi should do well to remember that there still are 850 million Hindus in India, a billion worldwide and that whatever good inputs were brought by different invasions, it is the ancient values of spirituality behind Hinduism which have made India so special and which gives it today unique qualities making an Indian Christian different from an American Christian, or an Indian Muslim different from a Saudi Muslim. It is an insult to these tolerant Hindus to show United States President Barack Obama as his first input of the Indian capital the tomb of Humayun, a man who slaughtered Hindus in thousands, taking Hindu women and children as captives. He even subjected his elder brother Kamran to brutal torture, gauging his eyes out and pouring lemon into them.

The tragedy of India is that it was colonised for too long. And unlike China, it always looks to the West for a solution to its problems. Sonia Gandhi, whatever her qualities, is just an incarnation of that hangover, an empress of India in new clothes.

(The writer is the author of Hindutva, sex & adventures)

E-mail: [email protected]

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 24 Dec 2011 23:12

abhishek_sharma wrote: What is a "Dalit-type Muslim"? Please enlighten me.

Who discriminated them to get Dalit identity?

Does it mean Islam has untouchability?

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 24 Dec 2011 23:15

No, it is an egalitarian religion.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 24 Dec 2011 23:25

abhishek_sharma wrote:Muslims unexcited, Christians say no gains

Well, it also shows another aspect : that if the congrez needs to drive a wedge between "Hindu" OBC and Muslim OBC, then it is actually shrinking its support base. It can no longer rely on the Hindu component of what is deemed OBC.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 25 Dec 2011 00:07

^ the nationalistic cultural organizations of non-leftist variety should drive this point home...

Look, by asking for reservations these guys are confirming that their faiths do not treat you any differently than your current situation. Look at them, they didn't even uplift you when they ruled the nation for 1000 years and 200 years respectfully.

Why do you want to convert and get only 2% reservation as if they are giving you alms. Stay with your dharma and take your rightful share of 22% and be yourselves.

Even after selling your souls if they can't help you in this life itself, what can they do in the afterlife? They themselves committed sin by stealing your souls and will be sitting in hell until Jesus comes back.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 25 Dec 2011 00:31

abhishek_sharma wrote: What is a "Dalit-type Muslim"? Please enlighten me.

Read Sachar committe report. in simple terms Ashraf=forwards;ajlafs=OBC;arzals=SC

Decipher from here
http://kafila.org/2011/09/02/muslim-quo ... nis-ansari

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 25 Dec 2011 00:44

brihaspati wrote:
abhishek_sharma wrote:Muslims unexcited, Christians say no gains
Well, it also shows another aspect : that if the congrez needs to drive a wedge between "Hindu" OBC and Muslim OBC, then it is actually shrinking its support base. It can no longer rely on the Hindu component of what is deemed OBC.

Bji, is it not possible that the OBCs break the religion silos? There could be some "enterprising" leader(s) who might try to do just that, and what would you think is the expected fall out of such a dynamic.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Dec 2011 01:08

I have been thinking about the depiction of the Perfect servant in Bollywood movies :Ramu kaka type older and occasionally younger ones like the guy in Hum Apke Hain Kaun. I went back in time to think where did we see this one before?

I think it comes from the Slave dynasty eunuch types who entered the Indian society. Those eunuchs were the prototypes for the Perfect Servants of today. The earlier ones were neutered individuals. The modern ones are those socially neutered by being removed in place (from rural to urban) and economically as they owe money to the employer's family in the rural areas.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 25 Dec 2011 03:48

ramana wrote:I have been thinking about the depiction of the Perfect servant in Bollywood movies :Ramu kaka type older and occasionally younger ones like the guy in Hum Apke Hain Kaun. I went back in time to think where did we see this one before?

I think it comes from the Slave dynasty eunuch types who entered the Indian society. Those eunuchs were the prototypes for the Perfect Servants of today. The earlier ones were neutered individuals. The modern ones are those socially neutered by being removed in place (from rural to urban) and economically as they owe money to the employer's family in the rural areas.

Almost the same with the gatekeeper/watchman/society guard on bicycle. Until recently, they were on life contracts too.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 25 Dec 2011 15:41

....

Well, it also shows another aspect : that if the congrez needs to drive a wedge between "Hindu" OBC and Muslim OBC, then it is actually shrinking its support base. It can no longer rely on the Hindu component of what is deemed OBC.

INC gets only 3-4% of the Hindu OBC votes from among 35-40% of the community that too mostly in places like AP, MH, etc where
they are solidly behind INC. They haven't touched SC reservations although many Muslims would be SC by caste because they are
a solid INC votebank. They are not stupid. The target for reservation is UP where a Muslim consolidation behind INC will give them the gaddi in Delhi. The OBC vote is divided among different parties. However, a consolidation of OBC votes with FC is unbeatable e.g. in Bihar. If that happens in UP then all calculations will go wrong. That is why BJP should have projected Uma Bharti as CM candidate in UP.
Rajnath Singh is unelectable as CM due to caste composition.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 25 Dec 2011 19:43

Can anyone guess who John Maclithon is ?

Controversial book based on foreign scribes

Responding to a legal notice served on publishers Roli Books on behalf of Tully and Ebury Press, publishers of the former BBC correspondent’s book “India’s Unending Journey”, the author who wrote under the pseudonym John MacLithon said Luyt’s character had been modelled on a number of foreign correspondents then based in Delhi, including Tiziano Terzani, François Gautier, Tully, Bernard Imhasly and John Elliott.

“It is however true that Mark Tully has uttered in his time quite a few strong statements on the need for India to retain its Hindu identity though he may regret them today in Sonia Gandhi’s India,” MacLithon said, in his communication released to the media.

The book had created a controversy after it was surmised that Luyt, who makes certain comments on India’s Hindu identity, was modelled on Mark Tully.

“One of the purposes of my writing “Hindutva, Sex & Adventures” was to recount the difficult, dangerous and adventurous travails of a foreign correspondent posted in South Asia in the 80s and 90s, the period in which the book is set,” the author who calls himself MacLithon said.

There were reports suggesting that French journalist Francois Gautier could be the man behind the name MacLithon, but Gautier has denied any connection with the book or the controversy.

“Hindus are one of the most ancient people in the world, spiritual, tolerant, open hearted, as well as one of the most persecuted. This book was written to render justice to them. But sadly, after nearly 300 years of British rule, Indians seem to have blindly borrowed the Western concept of secularism, a colonial hangover, but not recognised the wealth they had,” MacLithon said.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 25 Dec 2011 21:25

Rahul Gandhi?

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 25 Dec 2011 23:15

Maybe this article may have some pointers:

Like Sonia Gandhi, I am a Westerner and a brought-up Christian. Like Sonia Gandhi, I have lived in India many years and I have adopted this country as my own.

But the comparison ends there. I did land in India with a certain amount of prejudices, clichés and false ideas, and I did think in the enthusiasm of my youth to become a missionary to bring back Indian ‘pagans’ to the ‘true god’. But the moment I stepped in India I felt that there was nothing much that I could give to India, rather it was India which was bestowing me. In fact in all my years here India has given me so much — professionally, spiritually, sentimentally. Most Westerners, who come here, still think they are here to ‘give’ something to a country, which, unconsciously of course, they think is lesser than theirs. It was true of the British, it was true of Mother Teresa, it is true of Sonia Gandhi.

An Empress of India in NEw Clothes by John Maclithon

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 25 Dec 2011 23:51

[quote="Rony"]Can anyone guess who John Maclithon is ?

Controversial book based on foreign scribes

Francois for sure. He may deny it, but the frenchman it is.

Francois should stick to his foundation. He did some good work with some exhibitions earlier.

Francois has 2-3 blogs/sites and his unnatural focus on foreign correspondents is pretty annoying. If we can live with AR why cannot a few foreigners be tolerated. If at all anything is not to be tolerated it the Indians forgeting their Itihaas for some sleight of hand called History.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 25 Dec 2011 23:55

RamaY wrote:Rahul Gandhi?

Sirji please excuse the mirth. Mein ek bhola bhala SDRE Gangudin hun. But come on, Rahul baba got educated on i think a pistol shooting sifarish. He would not be able to write so much without the DVS fellow telling him what to write. In which case it can be Dig VJ Sing instead of the frenchman.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Dec 2011 06:08

Altair wrote:
ramana wrote:We need to examine the roots of instability in the peripheral states around India. If you look at it objectively all from sri Lanka to Afghanistan to Myanmar all are risky states. States reflect the society which froms the state. What is going on?
All the states are not stable economically. The reason can be a mix of various factors. Greedy leaders,lack of proper educated masses,Meddling by western countries,large populations etc..
It may take another 3 to 4 decades for all the peripheral states around India to stabilize. India can be the center of gravity if we show some real intent and set some things straight in our neighborhood. India must start thinking for the next 50 years in our vicinity and plan for solutions. Independent Baluchistan is one to start with.

The periphery is an example of absolute power corrupts absolutely.
All have one segment dominant over others. Need to get the pakistaniyat out of them,

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Dec 2011 08:07

’Handle China like a Test match, not a Ranji match’

Last updated on: December 14, 2011 16:58 IST
Sheela Bhatt

In an exclusive chat with Rediff.com’s Sheela Bhatt, a senior government official candidly explains the current India-China relationship and the road ahead. A must read!
"India is absolutely committed to a pragmatic approach in dealing with sensitive bilateral issues. India doesn’t want any fights with China. We want to develop a relationship further and faster, but we want to assure that our pride is not hurt in the process because China has risen and India is, still, rising. This, in a nutshell is India’s policy on China."

A senior government official, in an exclusive briefing to Rediff.com provided a detailed explanation about the broad parameters under which the Sino-Indian relationship currently operates and will continue to grow in coming years.
The official provided valuable insights into the current issues between China and India in an off the record conversation. "China’s global and regional policy has been changing since 2008 when the global economic showdown had accelerated," he said.
"The slowing down of the economies of many Western countries has impacted the global economy and since then India has found changes in China’s regional policies. The economy of the United States has lost its dynamic edge, Japan is facing depressive economic stagnation, even Europe has joined the club of failing or stagnated economies."
"In and around 2008, China could clearly see that their era had just begun. China is looking for a superior place on the global chessboard and it wants to leverage its strong economy to absolutely secure its position vis-a-vis issues it finds itself on a weak wicket."
"India is just learning how to deal with today’s China which has certain goals to achieve."
’How can you stop the public activity of the Dalai Lama suddenly after 50 years?’
India is of the view that China’s post-2008 mindset has resulted in an increasingly intense disapproval of the Dalai Lama and his policies.
China’s stance has perplexed India because the Dalai Lama has lived in India since March 30, 1959 and India’s stand on the Dalai Lama’s presence in India has remained the same as before.
The Dalai Lama and Tibetans are welcome in India as long as they do not indulge in any explicit political activity on Indian soil. But increasingly, China has been trying to push the Dalai Lama into a corner by objecting to almost every action of his inside India.
In its international stance, in the last decade, there has been no dramatic change in India’s position, but China has become important and too rich to ignore.
The official reminded that although India perfectly understands Chinese sensitivity on Tibet, India believes in a One China policy. China should understand India’s position too, he added.
While respecting Chinese sensitivity during the 2008 Summer Olympics, India did its best to protect the Olympic torch and clamped down on Tibetan protestors. It has also successfully ensured that Tibetans do not indulge in anti-Chinese activity in India.
"But the Tibetans have been on Indian soil for half a century. To ensure that they don’t speak, don’t move and to keep them, almost, under house arrest is not possible."
"How can you stop the public activity of the Dalai Lama suddenly after 50 years?"
On last month’s Buddhist Conference that became a bone of contention between the two countries, the official said, "If the Chinese would not have objected to the Dalai Lama’s presence, the Indian media would have largely ignored it (the conference). China should understand how the Indian media works. When the media starts bombarding questions on why the President, prime minister and other dignitaries have ignored the international conference, then the government has to reply with caution."
The Chinese demand for the cancellation of the Dalai Lama’s speech at the conference led to the postponement of the India-China border talks scheduled on November 28. India argued that Buddhists from Sri Lanka, South Korea, Mongolia, Japan, even South Africa, had arrived and no country could order the postponement of such an event at such a late stage nor could it instruct the organisers to stop the Dalai Lama from participation.
"The Dalai Lama irritates the Chinese. Alright! We know about it. But India has to justify if overnight it changes its stance on the Dalai Lama."
’We should not expect a third country’s support’

India, in the last five years, has also understood -- more than ever -- that on vital diplomatic issues and particularly in its relation with China, India stands alone, the official explained.
Obviously, every country has a China policy and its own national interests in mind. The "balancing factors" available before are no more available with Russia, the European Union and the United States losing their prominence in the world economy.
Also, these countries are also struggling to make deals with China.
"You are alone. We must know that nobody, not even America, will stand up in your fight if you are at the receiving end. We should not, even, expect a third country’s support. We must develop better relations with China keeping focus on our interests," the official said, debunking the charge that India is teaming up with the US in its fight with China.
When asked about India’s commercial activity in the South China Sea, the official said the Oil and Natural Gas Corporation, ONGC, had not ventured in the area recently. It had operated in that area for the last two decades and repeated India’s stated position that the country had no other but only commercial interest in the area.
Discussing the impression that China is increasing its presence in Pakistan occupied Kashmir, the official said, "India is just not concerned about Pakistan occupied Kashmir, we are also concerned about China occupied Kashmir (CoK)!"
In the last 60 years China has captured around 45,000 square kilometres of land in the Saksgam valley and a small area of Aksai Chin that Pakistan gifted to China.
In the Indian debate on China, rarely does CoK appear, says the officer. CoK is the Chinese area of interest, he says. The trans-Karakoram development will be China’s next focus.

In 2010 India had conveyed its concerns to China about their presence in Pakistan occupied Kashmir. It was reported, then, in the American media that as many as 11,000 Chinese soldiers were present in Pakistan occupied Kashmir. China had then argued that the Chinese were assisting the Pakistanis in post-flood management.
’China believes Kashmir is not their battle’
When asked about the status of the border talks between the two countries, the official said, "It is difficult to predict. It is difficult to assume what will satisfy China in the end-game. The border issue will take more time."
"India had lost land to China during the 1962 war," he continues. "China, justifiably, asks, what will it gain at the end of protracted border talks? But, in India there is no way people will accept and approve any surrender of land to China."
"Can you imagine the prime minister of India telling the nation that India has agreed to give certain portion of land on the border? In India, even the nuclear agreement with America has turned into a ’liability’ instead of an ’asset,’ how will you settle borders on China’s terms?"
Explaining the equation in candid detail, he further added, "Things work in their own way within India. We don’t follow global logic! The Indian masses think India lost the war with China. India lost a piece of land to China. Without India getting something back no Indian negotiation will be accepted by the public. Both countries are aware of the challenges."

Going beyond the border dispute, the Indian government is trying hard to emphasise that there are a variety of areas where India and China are much closer than India and America.

Bilateral trade will reach $70 billion in the coming few years. India and China are on the same page on the issue of climate change, and have also protested the planned American action in Libya and Syria and on many financial steps at the global level.
The official says it is wrong to form firm theories that India and China are competitors or India and America are closer than India and China. In the real world things work with more complexity, he adds.
He was keen to highlight that critics who think India is not standing firm to China should read the fine print. On the issue of China giving stapled visas to Kashmiris in the last few months, India has noticed that Kashmiris are being issued normal visas now.
"China believes Kashmir is not their battle. Surely, they are ultra-sensitive about Tawang in Arunachal Pradesh."

’China has risen, India is still rising’

While giving a few more examples where the convergence of interests has been possible between China and India, the official repeatedly gave the example of the Oslo Conference on Climate Change. While talking about the offensive in Syria, like Russia and China, he said India has differed with America.
The bottom-line of the relationship is that China has risen, India is still rising. The unequal space of development should not cast a shadow on mutual treatment which has to be based on the spirit of equality and respect.
Both India and China will have to find ways to preserve mutual pride and move ahead on the journey of development and growth.
Seen from the Indian premise, India wants to ensure there is no stress or conflict with China,but it also wants to display courage that it can stand up for its convictions in spite of its unequal economic trajectory.
Diplomats in India are striving to arrive at a kind of balancing act where the right mix of pragmatism and nationalism pushes Sino-Indian relations forward.
"Let us play the game with China with the attitude and spirit of a Test match," the official, a keen fan of cricket, added, "and not with the mindset of Ranji Trophy matches."
__________________________

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Dec 2011 08:23

Meeting the China Challenge

BY HARSH V. PANT

The U.S., Japan and India on Monday held their first trilateral security meeting to discuss security issues in East Asia, and the Washington event is set to be the start of a trend. Beijing is predictably unhappy about this convergence of the world’s superpower, the second-largest economy in Asia, and the other large developing country. But China must prepare itself for more such meetings, because China’s own actions are bringing them about.
Technically, China’s rise did not feature at the meeting. Security of sea lanes of communication, coordination of humanitarian assistance and global terrorism were the focus. But China was the unspoken subtext. After all, one of the biggest threats to free navigation in Asia is China’s growing assertiveness in pursuing unreasonable territorial claims in the South China Sea and in various island disputes with Japan. A pressing humanitarian problem is North Korea, a totalitarian state sustained by Beijing’s patronage. India faces a serious terrorism threat from Pakistan, another friend of China.
The question facing the three powers that met in Washington is how to manage these concerns. Traditionally the American presence in the region on its own has been a strong guarantor of stability. But economic constraints back home increasingly will force the U.S. to seek a new arrangement. This is likely to include reliance on regional allies to carry more of the security burden, as is the case with America’s North Atlantic Treaty Organization allies in Europe.
In line with this strategy, Washington has encouraged a greater role for India in East and Southeast Asia. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, during her visit to India earlier this year, asked India "not just to look east, but to engage east and act east as well." India has responded with a renewed focus on its Look East Policy, which has evolved from economic and trade linkages to a gradual strengthening of security ties.
India’s ties with Japan, in particular, have been gaining momentum thanks to growing enthusiasm in both New Delhi and Tokyo. India’s booming economy makes it an attractive economic partner for Japan as the latter tries to overcome long years of stagnation. Japan also is reassessing its traditionally passive security stance and looking for opportunities to play a greater role while staying within the bounds of its non-aggression commitments. Of all Japan’s neighbors, India seems most willing to acknowledge Japan’s central role in guaranteeing Asian security.
Moreover, a new generation of political leaders in India and Japan view each other with fresh eyes, allowing for a break from past suspicion. China has inadvertently hastened this process along. Both India and Japan are well aware of China’s not so subtle attempts at preventing their rise. It is most clearly reflected in China’s opposition to the expansion of the United Nations Security Council to include India and Japan as permanent members.

This has set the stage for this week’s meeting. It was an opportunity for Japan and India to further cement their bilateral ties while also discussing ways to coordinate security efforts with the U.S. While no major initiatives resulted (none were expected), there was some progress on joint naval exercises.
Nor is this the only trilateral meeting on the horizon. There are growing calls for another initiative involving the U.S., Australia and India. There is a distinct convergence of interests among these three countries across of a range of issues including the security of global commons, maritime security and counterterrorism. Trilateral coordination would be the next logical step.
The parties are closer than at any recent time to such an arrangement. Australia’s Labor government last month reversed a decades-old ban on uranium sales to India. Australia and India are ramping up their defense ties with a joint approach in tackling piracy, increasing the number of port visits by their naval ships, and a more structured defense dialogue. This is a significant step in overcoming the longstanding neglect, on both sides, of Australia-India relations.
Meanwhile, Canberra is ramping up its own alliance-building. It has reinvigorated its longstanding alliance with the U.S. by agreeing last month to station 2,500 marines in a U.S. base in northern Australia, and has reached out to Japan for enhanced defense cooperation. It is therefore not surprising that Australia is interested in a U.S.-India-Australia trilateral initiative as it seeks out new partners in the region.
All of this is a worry for China. Beijing has decried the "Cold War mentality" it claims is evinced by such moves. With respect to a U.S.-Australia-India grouping, Canberra and New Delhi have been quick to publicly downplay the prospect for now, for fear of needlessly antagonizing Beijing. China remains a critical economic partner for all countries in the region. Clearly any trilateral meeting could not feature China as a chief agenda item. The more subtle path followed by this week’s U.S.-Japan-India conference is more likely.
But there’s no escaping China’s own role in bringing about this security realignment. Beijing’s expansive maritime sovereignty claims; its aggressive behavior pursuing them; its support for states such as North Korea and Pakistan; and its nontransparent military build-up all raise questions about its willingness to act as a responsible stakeholder in the region. Beijing will have to come to terms with more meetings such as this week’s.
Mr. Pant is a professor of defense studies at King’s College, London

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 29 Dec 2011 21:45

Is it possible to replicate something like this in India ? I am not looking at it in terms of dictatorships etc but in terms of inculcating discipline, unity and pride among our teens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 29 Dec 2011 22:47

Education and Media are the two areas which are in the nation hand. They bring in pride and unity in the nation

In India the Education and Media has been hijacked by foreign interest

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 30 Dec 2011 01:11

Rony wrote:Is it possible to replicate something like this in India ? I am not looking at it in terms of dictatorships etc but in terms of inculcating discipline, unity and pride among our teens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave

One of the thought trains: http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... =24&t=5868

The objectives are 180 degree different.

OT: BTW, a certain German movie based on this theme was almost apologetic on the fascist aspect. However they seemed to be coming of age (out of the WW2 shell), in hindsight it was a useful datapoint of a future assertive Germany within EU and as a continental power.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 Dec 2011 12:22

Thanks to Abhishek I got to read Ashok Bhalla's translation of Dharamvir Bharati's Andha Yug. Here is a comment on Karna in the preface. See if you can idenify the current Karna:

Karna, for instance, chooses to live with the Kauravas out of his mistaken
notions of gratitude, faithfulness, and duty. He realizes, too late, that he had
relied merely on armed might to protect him. It was not surprising, there-
fore, that when the forces of the Kauravas crumble, he finds himself stand-
ing in the mud beside his broken chariot, helpless, disabled, and unarmed.
What more can he teach us? As he shouts for fairness in frustrated rage, we
are required to understand that power without the imagination of mercy
can only lead to humiliation. Why should he continue to live after that? And
why should not Krishna condone all means available to destroy him? The
sacred, after all, is not required to make sentimental compromises when it
comes to restoring the just balance of the world in which we live. In the face
of an annihilating power, the sacred may use all the available ruthlessness
that it can muster up in order to survive. We may, in our mistaken and
fallen world, accuse the sacred of hard-heartedness. But, how else will we
sometimes learn that there are limits of adharma and atyachar beyond
which we may not go without inviting the wrath of the sacred?

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 31 Dec 2011 17:54

What is "power without the imagination of mercy"? I don't understand what he means here. Anyone knows?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 Dec 2011 22:02

Might and Mercy are the two sides of the coin of state power.

Might without mercy is a one sided coin.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Jan 2012 04:34

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... ml#slide/7

India in pictures.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Jan 2012 10:51

These are English terms but the right Indian meaning is very accurate and with clarity

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 01 Jan 2012 11:40

ramana wrote:Thanks to Abhishek I got to read Ashok Bhalla's translation of Dharamvir Bharati's Andha Yug. Here is a comment on Karna in the preface. See if you can idenify the current Karna:

Karna, for instance, chooses to live with the Kauravas out of his mistaken
notions of gratitude, faithfulness, and duty. He realizes, too late, that he had
relied merely on armed might to protect him. It was not surprising, there-
fore, that when the forces of the Kauravas crumble, he finds himself stand-
ing in the mud beside his broken chariot, helpless, disabled, and unarmed.
What more can he teach us? As he shouts for fairness in frustrated rage, we
are required to understand that power without the imagination of mercy
can only lead to humiliation. Why should he continue to live after that? And
why should not Krishna condone all means available to destroy him? The
sacred, after all, is not required to make sentimental compromises when it
comes to restoring the just balance of the world in which we live. In the face
of an annihilating power, the sacred may use all the available ruthlessness
that it can muster up in order to survive. We may, in our mistaken and
fallen world, accuse the sacred of hard-heartedness. But, how else will we
sometimes learn that there are limits of adharma and atyachar beyond
which we may not go without inviting the wrath of the sacred?

When Karna appealed to Arjun, after his chariot got stuck, Arjun actually complied. It was Krishna who pointed out to Karna, and indirectly to Arjun, that after partaking in killing of Abhimanyu, Karna could not expect to appeal to the concept of fairness. The first act of killing of Abhimanyu was done by Karna, when he attacked Abhimanyu from behind and cut both of his bow's string. This was against the basic tenets of dharma of those times. After that Abhimanyu's fight went down hill and the 16-year old was murdered by monsters.
Some say that Krishna bought up Abhimanyu, a raw wound as far as Arjun was concerned, so as to goad Arjun into killing Karna. Some even claim that seeing Karna on the back foot, Krishna wanted the only obstacle to Pandav's victor gone. That is a misrepresentation of the truth. Kaurav's and consequently Karna's fate was sealed long ago. Their laundry list of crimes and evil doing was too long. And let us not forget Karna did not prevent the eldest Kaurav from carrying out many of his evil deeds, the lakshagraha, the insult of Draupadi, etc.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Jan 2012 11:41

http://www.dawn.com/2012/01/01/on-the-record.html
On the record
M.J. Akbar

THE principal difference between an `off the record` and `on the record` conversation with a politician is that the former is likely to be much closer to the truth. `Off the record` does not mean `outside the discourse`; after all, the best way to keep anything to yourself is to remain silent. When a politician chooses to talk without attribution, it only means he, or indeed she, is sending a message with an in-built denial clause.
`Off the record` is a means of placing frustration and anger into public play. This is par for the course, and far more fun than the carefully chosen phrases of official fudge.One senior Congress politician has an extraordinary wish for 2012. He wants the opposition NDA (National Democratic Alliance) to come to power in the new year for just one reason — so that NDA might suffer Mamata Banerjee`s tantrums just as the present coalition has had to bear them.His assumption that no government in Delhi is possible in this parliament without an alliance with the Bengal chief minister is correct. He could think of no greater curse than survival with the support of Mamata Banerjee.But give the feisty Banerjee credit for daring; with just 19 MPs she has defeated the 206-MP strong Congress four times this year, and each time in a crucial game.he tripped Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in Bangladesh by refusing to part with the Teesta river waters. She lassoed him at home over foreign direct investment in retail and pensions. And she left UPA flat on its face on the Lokpal bill. She understands a basic rule, that the best strategy vis-Ã -vis Congress is to replicate how Congress treats its allies.Congress does not consider an alliance to be a cooperative. It plays by what might be called the Frank Sinatra method: my way, or the highway. Suddenly, Mamata Banerjee is telling her senior partner that if it wants to stay in power, then it will be on her terms. She knows Congress culture intimately; after all, she has been there.Mamata Banerjee may sometimes succumb to mistakes, but she does not believe in accidents. Her moves are deliberate. Her message for 2012 is obvious: her options are open.
She has no reason to be as docile as the Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam, since she is not vulnerable on any corruption charge. She does not fear exposure because she has no great scam to hide from the CBI. She is not worried therefore about Delhi`s blackmail. She doesn`t know how to be meek; that particular gene was left out of her DNA.Congress is used to lambs in its fold, even when sometimes it feels that there is a wolf lurking inside in sheep`s clothing. As long as the wolf bleats, all is well. Suddenly, Congress is faced with the prospect, in the words of the Urdu poet, of watching the house go up in flames because of a domestic lamp. It will burn slowly, corner by corner.

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 01 Jan 2012 11:42

The Ashok Bhalla depiction of Karna is incorrect. In fact he was man of great generosity (he could never turn down a request made of him) and honor. He was forced to lie about his caste (Brahmin) and pretend to be a kshatriya so he could receive training in archery. When his master discovered the lie he cursed Karna that his knowledge of arms would fail him when he needed it most. BTW Karna's armor--kancha-- was absent as he has given it away to Indra who requested it under a disguise as a mortal. Karna saw thru the disguise but gave away his armor nonetheless.

Arjuna thus killed a defenseless man.A man who gave away impenetrable armor due to duplicitous request. The lines between good and bad in the Mahabharata are not so clear cut. What is clear cut is the work is a masterpiece. The above interpretation of it could not be more wrong IMHO.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 01 Jan 2012 11:54

tejas wrote: He was forced to lie about his caste (Brahmin) and pretend to be a kshatriya so he could receive training in archery. When his master discovered the lie he cursed Karna that his knowledge of arms would fail him when he needed it most.

Sirji,
While I agree with what you say, Karna was not a Brahman. Born of Sun and Kunti, out of wedlock, he was a Kshatriya or of low cast (his foster father was a charioteer). He received arms training from Parasurama (Rama with the Axe), who was a Brahman, and a great enemy of the Warrior cast.
All this is of course OT.
Gautam

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 01 Jan 2012 12:44

Well, WTF. Delhi can give away West Bengal to Bangladesh. Better cut off a limb than lose the head.

so can we. ban you rather than tolerate your garbage.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Jan 2012 14:08

Which India are you living in.
Delhi will have to partner with all its coalition or seek a new mandate. That is how it is done.

It has to seek a mandate with which it can rule or give it to the group which gets the mandate.

Corporate interests cannot overrule the regional interest.
Delhi ruling regime cannot be a private group or a private mandate of a small elite

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 01 Jan 2012 15:03

Acharya wrote:Education and Media are the two areas which are in the nation hand. They bring in pride and unity in the nation

In India the Education and Media has been hijacked by foreign interest

You forget anther means of Mass communication the Public, Cinema Industry. To run Education requires Political clout at the Centre and to a lesser extent at state level, to control Media and Cinema one needs the Deep pockets to the extent you are not bothered even through false reportage and psy-op movies you make losses which are made up by Political corruption.

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 01 Jan 2012 16:19

g.sarkar. You are correct. I mixed up his caste

His deception was discovered when Parsurama was resting his head on Karna's lap and Karna was bitten by an insect. Despite bleeding and in pain, Karna did not move. When Parurama awoke he said only a kshatriya would endure such pain and not move. He then cursed
Karna. Thank you for the correction and sorry for the OT tangent.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Jan 2012 23:51

Aditya_V wrote:
Acharya wrote:Education and Media are the two areas which are in the nation hand. They bring in pride and unity in the nation

In India the Education and Media has been hijacked by foreign interest
You forget anther means of Mass communication the Public, Cinema Industry. To run Education requires Political clout at the Centre and to a lesser extent at state level, to control Media and Cinema one needs the Deep pockets to the extent you are not bothered even through false reportage and psy-op movies you make losses which are made up by Political corruption.

It is our country and our culture and our future. We need to control it. Why should foreigners come inside and why should we invite them.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Jan 2012 02:00

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/busi ... 325880.cms

bio metric tags can help identify manufacturing integrity. complex patterns imprints on the product should include signature to scan in batches.

there are many other ways to prevent imports of such goods.. too. this is idiocy on part of corruption ridden society.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 02 Jan 2012 11:50

From this book on Bihar.

The author is from KL and is talking about his uneducated maid. Kavery is author's wife. The maid's name is Pushpa.

There was of course a vast gulf between her perceptions of society and ours. She saw this and attempted at times to explain things to us, but was usually not successful. It was partly her Bihari: We talked to each other in Hindi, but we could manage only the simpler sorts of conversation. When the discussion became complex she would fall back on her native dialect, and we weren't good either at getting metaphysical concepts across in Hindi.

I remember once, after Kavery and I had established one night that there were mice in the house, I tried to convey the fact to Pushpa next morning, desiring her to procure some poison. Very strangely, I thought, she did not seem to understand my reiterated 'chooha', which I had thought was standard Hindi for 'mouse'. Much air-painting of the size and shape and characteristics of a mouse did not accomplish anything either. I attempted a murine squeak which died away in embarrassment. Finally, I summoned up my Sanskrit and said 'mushika'. 'Oh, moosa', she said, her eyes lighting up. I wondered what Marshall MacLuhan would have thought.